Kermode Uncut: I vill say ziz only vonce

[@Oceanmachine27]

One of my favorite things about "Amadeus" is how nobody bothered to put on a silly, obviously fake accent. Everyone simply talked in their normal voices. It made for better, more relaxed acting, and the various tones and inflections actually helped define the characters. Salieri sounded poised and superior, Constanze sounded plain and unrefined, and so on.

[@paulklein8048]

On the front of learning the language i think it's fair to point out that Doug Jones learnt Spanish for his role as Pan in Pan's Labarynth which was dubbed but it adds continuity.

[@NEMIHEMERA]

FINALLY! Someone talking sense!

[@ZuluRomeo]

This video is one of the reasons why I love Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. For the most part, the Klingons spoke in Klingon.

[@ihategoogle2382]

I agree with you in principle, but every time a Hollywood actor even tries speaking Arabic in a movie, they butcher it to the point where I, an native Arabic speaker, need subtitles to understand what they're saying. And when they get Arabs to play the roles, they speak the wrong dialect and don't even try to change their dialects.

[@YourLoyalDeserter]

I'm surprised you never mentioned this as a positive in your review of Inglourious.

[@Goochbot]

some of my favorite movies are in subtitles (Battle Royale, Pan's Labyrinth) i don't think having subs would be a problem for the majority of us. anyway great vid, and course he's 100% right again

[@michaelg7874]

When I hear a German accent in a movie I want to cut my ears of because no German or Austrian really sounds like that speaking English!

[@666deadman1988]

I tend to agree here, although I think it is quite a stretch to expect mainstream American and British film studios to branch out into foreign language films, especially since subtitles are such a turn-off for much of the average movie-going audience. One recent exception, however, is 'Inglourious Basterds' in which even a plot device of an English solider posing as an SS officer is pointed out for having a strange accent when he speaks in German is used to great effect.

[@ThierryLoa]

Excellent commentary and analysis.

[@adamdenny4779]

Huppert speaking English would imply The Pianist would be set in an English speaking country. Set in New York, it would probably work, maybe even better, her English accent a verbal metaphor for her sense of isolation from the world, which was one of the themes of the movie anyway.

[@abbyhuntley3171]

Respect for Mel and Clint just went up when I realised this

[@wheelchairfly]

Thank you, Mark!

[@MrRjhyt]

I loved in the Hobbit films, they actually used the correct Elvish... The alien cadence of speech can draw you in deeper. Even if you don't speak French, German, Russian, Elvish, you still hear the emotions.

[@Mute_Nostril_Agony]

Winslett does get her kit off in The Reader, so all is forgiven

[@slimjimpui]

zat ees goot point. Vey Goot!

[@SamuelRiv]

The problem becomes more complicated than your analysis (although very thorough and illustrated, Dr. K), because you have cases of an undeciphered dead language (Vercingetorix) or dead languages in general which are certainly optional, but should not be mandatory in histodramas. You also have cases of Old English and Middle English in Arthurian and Medieval tales, and finally the sci-fi languages of aliens and future humans.

[@mustsilm]

Interesting that Kermode considers The Reader terribly overrated.

[@mikelpascual]

Anybody else distracted by Mark's shadow? It has a delay! Mark, are you CGI?

[@Gyropitus]

Damn right, and they managed to do both the accents and language in Defiance. Kermode may not be Lemurian, but he's a pretty good reviewer.

[@aModernDandy]

Inglourious Basterds did this really well, too.

[@SamDavies94]

Inglourious Basterds kinda helped your point :)

[@logangray1912]

I agree, Mark Kermode. I've felt the same thing for a while. I'm writing a miniseries set in Poland, and envision Polish actors because I've had enough with the accents already.

[@Guedingen]

I do think it's a tall order expecting actors to learn a language for a role, although the johnny foreigner inflections can grate. Having said that, I'd still watch something like Valkyrie in the original as opposed to the dubbed version (which, here in germany, would be closer to what kermode means).

[@Professicchio]

Good point here, problem is: who of these massive movie studios is going to plunge itself in the new trend when, let's face it, 75% of average cinema audiences just does not want to bother with reading subs? We know how these corporates feel about the risk of 'losing customers'! Films like Passion or Downfall proved they can indeed be box-office hits but unfortunately these are 'noble exceptions' since the pull of the hype and the subject was much stronger than the 'subtitle' let-down for most.

[@123987username]

I totally agree with Mark. The only thing is that I dont think actors need to learn the language perse. Just cast actors that speak the language. They should have made valkyrie with german actors, or nongermans that speak german.

[@SamuelRiv]

Joss Whedon's approach to this was to invent his own dialects of English and alien/demon languages, where the Buffyspeak was an attempt to make the fast-evolving and very localized teenspeak into a timeless icon of youth culture (rather like Clockwork Orange). However, with Firefly, set about 500 years in the future, linguistics nuts like my cringed that the rate of evolution we see in the electronic age would not support such a clone of English in the future. You can't win.

[@meinderd80]

Another example of successful films in a foreign language: the Millennium trilogy. One of the biggest recent box office in Europe, and it's in Swedish. Hell, Kermode even reviewed part 1 here. It may not count, since it wasn't made by an English speaking cast or director, and they're going to re-adapt the whole book trilogy in Hollywood. But in general, foreign films can be internationally successful and appeal to a mainstream audience.

[@CanyonofStatic]

I love subbed movies, but I can understand that there are people who'd rather watch the action on the screen than have to read and digest tiny letters at the bottom of it. Saying that, I've been trying to find quality subs for a Hungarian movie called Children of Glory (Szabadság, Szerelem), a bit of a fruitless search that makes me long for an easy, cheesy Hungarian accent instead.

[@blokey8]

Der scrubbing and der stumping. Hehehehe...

[@hasankeser]

yes but who gonna play without the big stars people will love to see?

[@theKarst]

Pure gold.

[@rhyslloyd3200]

The biggest, BIGGEST example of this is Wonder Woman. Americans undercover speaking to Germans in English with German accent. Are the Germans speaking English or are they all speaking German but we hear English. What's wrong with subtitles?

[@silent-trouble]

haha, @ 6:35 eastwood already has that grim walt kowalski thing going on ...

[@HotDogMarchant]

This whole thing about the original languages not appealing to mainstream cinema is a bit stupid because, if you think about it, not many hollywood blockbusters (with the exception of Valkyrie and a few others) have a dominant foreign language. Most of the big action movies are set in England or America, and possibly have some foreign scenes with subtitles. People who are gonna go out and see a foreign movie are most likely going to appreciate the language. Or maybe not, I don't know.

[@cathalmacsiurdain7762]

Think of all those Shakespearean plays set on the continent...Hamlet should have a Danish accent and Othello? Shylock? Romeo?

[@tmcthree]

I dyslexic, for me, subtitles are a real pain in the srae

[@jastrebok]

And then we dub the movies in Czech and everything is spoilt twice :D

[@jonasHM]

@jamchew1982 I didnt say anything about castin no-name actors, but yeah, you're probably right about that one.

[@Areashiftybun]

Preach brother preach.

[@my7ub3]

the good doctor is always right

[@figgettit]

preach it mark.

[@stephenmortimer6003]

Mark's view is still Anglo-centric: if US/UK actors perform in a foreign language, then they also have a foreign accent to the ears of the viewers in other countries, just as most German actors have an accent to our ears if they speak English. So then the foreign actors might want to start speaking their language with a slight English accent to offset this, and you have exactly the same problem but the other way round. If you want want to have complete consistency, you'd have to insist that only native speakers of a certain language are 'allowed' to play roles based in that language, which seems a bit restrictive.

[@roryahconnolly]

Don't hire actors who don't speak the language natively, then!

[@Guedingen]

Good point, but they'd surely be speaking a heavily accented garbled mish-mash (given the time)which would be even worse than the 'v haf vays of making you tok, inglander pig-dog'.

[@jamchew1982]

what a ridiculous solution... there were many reasons Passion did fantastically and none of them for how good the movie was. Letters from Okinawa did okay but only because it was an Eastwood movie. For mainstream movies it's obvious they're not going to get Tom Cruise to learn a new language. In fact, it'd be insulting to native speakers to heard him speaking it so terribly. Come on Kermode, think before you preach

[@Raymint]

If people don't want to read subtitles then thats the film industry's loss.

[@dimabbq]

"Subtitling a whole film"? The only films worth watching lately are all subtitled. It does not defeat the point of the moving image because it's not silent cinema. The film continues to play on screen doesn't it? Can people not keep up or are just too lazy to read and watch at the same time?

[@randomsamno9]

I think we should take the approach the BBC used to, Educate as well as Entertain. People don't like it, so screw them, I never wanted to go to school, but I had to, now I know things that help me in life. Eventually people will give in, they will read subtitles, watch intelligent films, and learn to love intelligent thought provoking Cinema the way I did, yes there will be some teething problems but if we don't do this things will go back to the way they used to, with the elite being the educated ones and everyone else mindless slaves with no means of understanding why their lives don't need to be like this. Knowledge is power, lets share that power, not limit it.

[@martinsloan3972]

I love foreign language movies, and often watch them without trying too hard to read the subtitles just to soak up the tones of voice and the emotion held within. I would never watch foreign language movies that have dubbed into English, because the voice acting is usually so terrible. There may be one or two rare exceptions of course. I think the debate over the accents used in any English language movie is a bit pedantic, and a negative judgement of such movies is a bit harsh. It’s just a matter of being attuned to the idea, which for me has been relatively easy since ‘Allo Allo’. I wish Tom Cruise had done Valkyrie in German. But once I got past that, I started to enjoy the movie very much. I even prefer it to the German language version, starring Sebastian Koch as Von Staufenberg, released four years earlier, mainly because I connect more with the acting in the Brian Singer movie.

[@paulklein8048]

I still enjoyed defiance.

[@DeadCamper]

I agree with the problem here, but I do not agree that there's a simple solution. Because sadly there just isn't one. You cannot expect, for example, an American actor to learn a foreign language and speak it fluently for the purpose of one film. I'm Swedish myself and I've been talking English my whole life, and my accent is still OBVIOUS to any British or US citizen.

[@randomisraelite]

the reader*

[@rocheyb1]

There is nothing preventing the German film industry from producing German-language movies pertaining to WWII, if they want to. They've already given us the excellent Downfall, and Paul Verhoeven's Black Book was a Dutch production containing Dutch and German dialogue. But Valkyrie is an original US production, with an American director and an Anglo/American cast, intended for a predominantly US and global audience. If this collaboration believe they have a decent story to tell, then let them tell it. I don't see why they should have to learn a new language to do so. By that token, only Danish speakers would ever get to play Hamlet! The device employed early in the film, where Tom Cruise's German narration merged into English, made it perfectly clear that these are German characters, in Germany, being German. The complaint about accents is irrelevant to me - there are regional accents and dialects in most of the world's major languages, so as long as the actors' words are clearly audible, it's no problem.

[@paulklein8048]

and ze shtooomping!

[@flakelorenz02]

Yeah I watched Die Hard today and all the terrorists speak German except when they want to exposesise (if that's a word) to the audience. It doesn't make sense sometimes they would switch from English to German for no reason especially when the whole conversation could be heard by the hero.

[@jonasHM]

@jamchew1982 Then why not just cast a german actor playing a german who can natively speak german, and let tom cruise be home jumping on couches and eating placentas.

[@Jcolinsol]

Yeah, when you're here doing it for free!

[@imageaware]

Tom Cruise doesn't do accents, that would take talent.

[@lewiscranston881]

Cruise has talent. He's excellent in Magnolia.

[@NovaJake360]

Have you seen Magnolia or Born on the Fourth of July?

[@marilynmalone1381]

excellent point, he's a terrible actor

[@lewiscranston881]

Emperor Dude Again watch him in Magnolia.

[@theKarst]

Very simple solution: don't use the likes of Tom Cruise or Daniel Craig. Instead use native/local actors.

[@skhoheit]

It must be possible for Americans and Brits to make a movie where they play Germans without lerning German. K's idea is a bit laughable. Even a decent actor like Matt Damon sounds absurd when he utters 1-2 German sentences in Born Identity. To imagine a whole movie like that is a horrid prospect. It WAS silly though that they had a German actor in Valkyrie. The problem is that there is no good dubbing into English, while in many cases into German is quite decent. Simply a matter of Experience.

[@randomisraelite]

mark how can you say the reeaded is overrated??? ut has terrible ratings everywhere and it was soooo good its not overrated mark dont say that i love that movie!! z schnapps :)

[@jamchew1982]

@jonasHM guarantee more people will be watching him eat placentas than would be watching a no-name german actor in Valkyrie

[@delbongo]

The good doctor IS INDEED always right

[@Sindizwe]

It drove me absolutely nuts in the american remake of the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. Inconsistent accents, and why did it have to take place in Sweden in the first place?! Most of the American remakes are placed in America as they rightly should be when you insist on making a remake with American actors. It wouldn't take anything away from the movie since the allusions to Swedish politics and culture almost entirely weeded out.

[@Twm532]

Not everyone wants to watch movies with subtitles. I enjoy the odd asian subbed movie but watching a movie with subtitles isn't the same experience as watching it in your language

[@dcs2011able]

This is the stupidest solution I've ever heard! I have no problem watching a subtitled film if it comes from another country, but Kermode is suggesting changing all film history. Does this mean that all films set in foreign countries with foreign characters have to be in the original language? Is "Doctor Zvivago" wrong for not using Russian actors or should Lean have used a Saudi Arabian actor instead of Alec Guiness for "Lawrence of Arabia"? Is the 1930 "All Quiet on the Western Front" wrong for not using German actors? "Amadeus", "Schindler's List", and "The Sound of Music" should have been subtitled into German. Maybe we should only use Danish actors when doing "Hamlet" because it's set in Denmark or present Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar' in Latin because to use English speaking actors is geographically and historically incorrect. Films should allow use to use your imagination and allow the audience to identify with the character. It always helps to identify better when the character speaks your language.

[@MrEllifant]

I am german and I try to watch films in the original language of the actors in it. Why? Because German synchro ist just terrible and the languages never fit the real actors voice. So instead of listening to a german-speaker- kate winslet with annoying voice, i rather listen to her silly german accent original voice. Just to add... most germans do NOT sound, as you want to believe we sound, when speaking english. It's worse!