Ketch Rig vs Sloop: Great Advantages for Cruisers

[@ImproveSailing]

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[@cjg6364]

Biggest performance difference - for a sloop and ketch of equal sail area, the ketch will usually heel less on a beam reach because more of its sail area is placed lower in height - therefore causing less heeling torque on the boat. In theory therefore, a ketch will be able handle stronger winds on a beam or broad reach without being over-powererd.

[@jasperoliger]

You seem pretty knowledgeable on the subject so I'd like to ask you... can you run a spinnaker out on a ketch? Or will the extra sail plain and pull at the front cause problems? I'm looking to get a Ketch and have a sapre spinnaker from my old sloop I'd like to use

[@larsfrisk361]

@@jasperoliger In general, sailing with a spinnaker on a ketch is not a problem.

[@deerfootnz]

​@@larsfrisk361 And in fact you can run an extra Spinnaker or reaching sail from the mizzen, called a mizzen staysail

[@billybigbaws1726]

How is your channel not bigger than it is? Seriously, your videos have taught me a lot and helped get me into sailing. I hope the KZbin algorithm gods are kinder to you in the future!

[@ImproveSailing]

I don't know, I think it will take some time, but I hope so too! I'm very glad to hear it, thanks for the kind words. That's what the channel is all about. I have learned a lot since starting as well. Welcome BTW!

[@billybigbaws1726]

@@ImproveSailing I suppose. Still though, best of luck!

[@Wushu-viking]

Good video. I agree! Ketch is for Crusing. Sloop is for Racing Because ketch rig has smaller sails, it can sail with full sails in more wind without overstress to the rigning. So if the wind is just where a sloop has to start reefing, the Ketch can be faster with its full sails.

[@wings4078]

‘Never sailed one myself “is the key words

[@It-b-Blair]

From being overwhelmed by the prospect of a whole mast and sail behind me, to feeling like it’s manageable with added benefits... well done sir!

[@KandMe1]

Never been interested in sailing as such but if ever I thought about owning a sailboat always it was a ketch came to my mind.

[@braithmiller]

Having a ‘Bermudan/Marconi ketch. They can be masthead, fractional, cuter etc. Good comments on control and balance. Along with a full keel mine sails with great stability. More sail options than you can on a single mast, nearly endless sail plans are possible on the same ketch without re-rigging. I can and do run any ‘rag’ jib as a staysail instead of main, there are many reasons for this and some permanently elect not having a main boom. Modern downside is not having room for solar arches etc aft. Many will keep sailing when others have hove to. Most practical is having the mizzenmast with or without boom for lifting, I use it constantly with a remote deck winch like having a second person aboard. If you balance depending on your vessel and point you may not need steering or just rig sheet to tiller. S/V Touchstone of Philip Rhodes Tidal Wave descendants 1976.

[@jasperoliger]

As someone who owns a ketch, have you ever run a spinnaker out on it? Do spinnakers even work with a ketch ?

[@dc14522]

I have a reliance 44 ketch. Yes, slightly smaller main and genoa make handling them just a bit easier. Lower center of effort helps, but my boat has a very narrow beam, so it heels a lot anyway. Biggest advantage is the number of sail combinations to get perfect comfort and balance. Maintenance cost is definitely higher though, and tacking, gybing and reefing all require more time because you're messing with more lines. Love the ketch rig though... it's a real sailor's rig. oh... and my boat has an inner stay but no provision for the staysail running rigging. So I'm adding a roller furler and running rigging for the staysail. This will be my heavy weather sail which is preferable to using a partially furled genoa. I'm guessing that a small staysail and reefed mizzen will balance nicely in a blow.

[@santonopoulou]

Wonderful content :) I'm getting ready to close on a 1970 38 foot Mariner 31. I'm renting my home to a couple of friends of mine, and heading out to sea (it's been far too long that I've been stuck on land). Great thoughts on the value of the ketch. Most of those reasons - the storm tactics response time in particular - was one of the major factors for me in my purchase decision since I'll be sailing this beauty alone. Stay safe out there!

[@iang5369]

meee toooo!!!

[@westmc45]

i am not far behind you I sold everything I own and now will be getting me a boat in the next 4 months or so.

[@ImproveSailing]

great to hear, sounds like a super exciting plan!

[@edesp]

Your attitude at 05:38 is what made me hit subscribe. Thanks for your open and honest thoughts on an interesting topic, making it understandable for all.

[@scottmechanical]

🇨🇦 Thank you 🙏🏽🇨🇦 We are shopping for a boat and now we will narrow are choices to a Ketch. Once we “Adopt one you can come sail with us so can improve your description of them. You’ve got a new sub. We are new to sailing, so, your info is welcomed !🙏🏽

[@ImproveSailing]

That's very kind of you, and I'm glad the videos are helpful! Best of luck with picking a boat and keep us posted!

[@JayPerrypersonal]

Guys I think this guy is also new to sailing!!! Don’t narrow your search to a ketch especially for your first boat! Sloop with in mast furling easier to learn on, not that you can’t learn on a ketch but just more to do. Don’t buy a boat if you don’t know how to sail please!! Go on a course like RYA Day Skipper or equivalent, Charter a couple of time after getting your licence. This way you can learn, experience sailing before you actually buy a boat. Also sail on as many different boats as you can before you buy so you actually have some idea of what you want. KZbin is great and some good guys giving good advice on here, however some people are simply giving the wrong advice as they do not know their subject or have little to no experience themselves! Be careful.

[@freeholdtacticalmed]

New boat owner...1976 Chris Craft Caribbean 35 ketch...she’s being refit and adding a 3rd reef on my main, a mizzen staysail, and an asymmetric spinnaker. It’s original 130 Genoa is big but I’m considering of possibly replacing the Genny with a Yankee cut 100 jib and perhaps adding a storm jib. My refit is almost finished! I’m waiting on my rigger to get my wind generator remounted, my radar installed and my water tanks fixed. Slowly I’m getting there. Every boat is a work in progress. I’m a long keel Ketch man...my 10 meter ketch SV Shayndel owns my heart.

[@ImproveSailing]

Love her line and the wood trim on the sides; looks like a gorgeous boat.

[@jamesbaldwin7676]

The ketch is good because when the wind begins to howl, the mainsail is furled but the boat continues to balance well on head-sail and mizzen alone. The jib may also be furled, leaving just the staysail and mizzen. It's not the best boat for single-handed or short-handed sailors though. That's a cutter. Everything you do with a ketch to reduce sail, may likewise, be done on the cutter and one mast. Furl the jib, reef the main and ride it out. You're now riding on the reefed main and staysail.

[@robertling9872]

Thank you for sharing this information. Educational and interesting to discover the differences in sail plan design.

[@journeymanadventure]

More masts and more sails means more gears. A ketch rig is easier to Ballance that means less effort at the helm. On most points of sail the boat can be steered by adjusting the mizen. At anchor a part raised (reefed) mizzen will hold the head into the wind to reduce veering. Maintenance, two of everything means double varnish paint lines rigging so no advantage over sloop. If one mast fails you have a spare if the failed one doesn't take out the spare.

[@jeffdurden398]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but you're getting into the difference between a ketch and a yawl. In a ketch the masts share a stay, so I don't see many situations where losing one wouldn't result in the other failing also. Yawl rigs don't share any stays though and your point would be valid. I'm looking for another boat and a ketch has made the short list. I'm starting to see some advantages to that kind of rig for what I want to do with her. Always a trade off, but the pluses are there.

[@journeymanadventure]

@@jeffdurden398 on a ketch the mizzen is forward of the rudder and on a yawl the mizzen is aft of the rudder cobber. Some but not all ketches and schooners do have a triatic at the mast head from the mizzen to the main because the aft mast "mizzen on a ketch and main on a schooner" doesn't have room for a forstay. One of the golden globe races last time round rolled his ketch loosing the main but managed to keep his mizzen untill a couple of days later when he turned turtle again and lost the mizzen. I've read many stories where the mizzen survived a main rig failure but yould want to be on the ball to cut away the triatic. Mine is wire from mast to mast then line to the deck on the mizzen so I can bend the mast or let it fly if needed.

[@jeffdurden398]

@@journeymanadventure Thanks for your thoughtful reply. We are looking for a new boat in the 35 to 38 ft range, something like a Tayana or Island Packet cutter was my first thought, but I ran into a 37 ft ketch that checks most of the boxes for us. My wife isn't as avid a sailor as I am, so my first thought was, "Too many lines and wires for her" but the more I think about it, more sheets you don't have to pull as hard might actually be better. With the triatic acting as the back-stay for the foremast is there any way to adjust the rig separately? I know this might be an idiot question, but we're up on Lake Champlain so there aren't many ketch rigged boats around.

[@journeymanadventure]

@@jeffdurden398 yes Jeff I have a 36 footer and I find that it is a less twitchy ride than a shorter boat. The triatic is the forstay for the mizzen only as the main boom would get in the way, the main has its own for and back stay the same as a sloop" single mast". My mizzen has the usual capping shroud's and lower shroud's that attach at the spreader half way up the mast and at the top I have running backsteys that need to be eased or tightened depending on the tack I'm on. As far as lots of sticks and strings are concerned, you don't have to use them all at once. My mizzen, main and staysail are on booms so when I tack I only need to look after the jib sheets during the turn and I can tweak the rest after. All sail up I use mostly for beam reach to stern quarter. Beam forward I use for and aft " mizzen and jib" and for downwind I run main and jib or jib alone so there is lots to play with. It's good when you have crew onboard because everyone can have a job. I normally singlehand so I take it easy and keep a watchful eye on the weather and if in doubt I drop one be it main or mizzen. The reffed mizzen at anchor helps to stop the boat swinging around and the mizzen boom is handy to string up a tarp. I think two mast allow you to have more sail are on shorter masts which may lesson heeling. What ever you get you will get used to and enjoy.

[@jeffdurden398]

@@journeymanadventure Thanks, I can see that rig almost perfectly now. There really are advantages and the 5 or 6 ft of extra bridge clearance doesn't hurt either. I'm going to get a look at that ketch next month if it hasn't sold before I get there. You're right about enjoying any boat, we have a mid 70's 28ft short mfg run sloop that nobody has ever heard of. Some of the design is really "Rube Goldberg" but we love her anyway.

[@PFCranssen]

Goede argumenten in mijn keuze voor waarschijnlijk toch een kitsgetuigd jacht :-) Thanks voor je video.

[@machismo4256]

There's a video on youtube somewhere of a large yacht spotting an old ketch fast approaching from behind. No main sail just one at the back and one at the front. They videoed it approaching flying past and disappearing into the distance. Jaw dropping stuff how fast it was flying along.

[@deerfootnz]

Unfortunately a ketch has a higher centre of gravity with two heavy masts. A ketch is more maintainance & cash. Ketches are better at reaching, especially in light airs with the mizzen staysail. With modern sails & equipment a split rig doesnt make sense until at least 60ft LOA, maybe even 70ft. The real cruising rig is a cutter. Most ketches ARE marconi/bermuda which involves roughly triangular sails and a wire stayed mast. The biggest advantage of a ketch or yawl is the ability to sail backwards under sail alone using just the mizzen. I have successfully backed a 50 ton 60ft ketch with no engine out of a crowded anchorage using this method.

[@felipealcabri]

Nice content! Thank you for explaining! What about schooners?

[@ImproveSailing]

Might do a video on schooners too, they used to be very popular until the Bermuda rig got popular.

[@wvonfricken]

just what i was looking for: a guy explaining a rig he admits he has never sailed.

[@nobody46820]

If possible, would you please discuss the use of a half wishbone mule on a ketch?

[@ImproveSailing]

Thanks, I'll look into it, I have added it to my topic idea list!

[@Hoireabard]

What about a yawl? It also has a mizzen and a Mizzen staysail. Some say a code zero and a spinnaker on a yawl complete an ideal sail configuration. A Yankee sail is traditional in moderate winds. What’s your opinion?

[@scottmechanical]

Thank you Coach.

[@randystrand908]

Just found you while looking for ketch rigged boats. Not an owner yet, but am VERY interested in a high end boat using a ketch set up. BTW, can you recommend any brands/models I should be looking for? (40' minimum and be able to solo sail on occasion!)

[@bobcornwell403]

The Bermuda Rig refers to the sail type, not the number, size, and placement of masts. What you really meant was the Sloop Rig, which has just one mast and at least one jib and a main. The Sloop differs from the Cutter by mast placement as well as number of jibs. A Sloop has its mast placed further forward, about 40% or less of the deck length aft the stem. A Cutter has its mast further aft. Cutters almost always have at least two jibs which are up at the same time. Sloops usually have just one jib up at a time, but may have more. Everything else you said was spot on.

[@rohantherockwiththerocketh7871]

I'm interested in designing a trimaran yacht using the ketch or yawl rig for stability!

[@JennySusanti-u1q]

What do you think of a ketch rigged 18 x 12 metre trimeran with hydrofoils like spindrift has? Looking at Brian and Karen on Dalios it seems that by using electric winches and actuators the sails can all be controlled from the helm? What is your opinion on all metal hulls? Thanks Philip

[@KingThallion]

I wonder if a large genoa and mizzen up if upwind performance could be improved.

[@cabilgibbs]

Thank You!!!

[@MOLOXOR]

Hello, it would be good if you subtitled the videos in Spanish in view of the fact that there is a growing market of people from Latin America who are acquiring knowledge for the subsequent purchase of a boat, including myself.

[@ImproveSailing]

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Lots of new sailors there?

[@michaelroberts5644]

Thought it was more indept with pictures of boat

[@tomhermens7698]

Great rig but very expensive to maintain, safe. Sails, rigging , standing and running, etc + bags of money. Prefer sloop for that reason.

[@rimasmeleshyus9486]

I m interested only long distance sailing ⛵

[@didierpotolos3319]

Ii this my idea that the narrator looks like Woody Harrelson? hahaha!! by the way, great video!!

[@southernfriedkiwi7726]

My wifes' uncle built a three masted schooner(65 ft) for these very reasons. Less heeling, smoother ride, cheaper masts and sails, easier to manage sails for his wife to be able to fully raise them, no winches needed, only one forestay and one back stay, absolute minimal rigging and clean decks. It just makes sense on so many levels.

[@prayfawind]

you never sailed a ketch how could you make this video or how they are

[@garyofnyc]

Bruh no photos or video examples?!?

[@davidpetergriffiths6230]

helo. i have a 28.5 pilot house sailing boat,built 1980,wood. a few days ago,a felow fro another yacht,,told me he new my boat and that originalllyit was a ketch,today a sloop i have no plan nr contact with builder. i would like to put a mizen mast. does someone know what length rrlation is there inbetween main mast and mizzin mast?

[@ImproveSailing]

Very cool! I don't, but there are boat builders out there that might.

[@braithmiller]

It should be specific to the marine architects original design, you need to find that and or sister ships. Each needs a different sail balance. The builder is very unlikely to have been the designer.

[@theodorjoensen]

Ketch is a mastplan. Bermuda is a sailplan. I have a ketch with Bermuda sails.

[@philipfreeman72]

Why I want a ketch is I have grandkids .

[@wings4078]

A picture’s wourth ten thousand words in this case………

[@ericvuille6410]

Hi. Always you talk about is old fashioned😡. I sail with a small schooner 35 feet . I am 65. I manage alone easy. But I am sure that less sail you have and more easy is it. We are in a modern world now. One big sail and one on two in front are enough and more easy to manage then a ketch or a schooner with several sail. And it’s much better on sailing too. I only like more schooner because it’s nice and class.

[@justusmetzler191]

My thought for quite some time now is, why is the junk rigged ketch not the ultimate cruiser? Advantages of ketch and junk rig stack together. Shorter masts so its easier to have the unstayed masts and the masts are cheaper. No added maintenance for the 2. Mast as there is no standing rigging at all. And reefing of a junk rig can be done while having a coffee in hand. Performance upwind just takes a 10 degree hit or so. But who cruises 45 degree into the wind anyways?

[@hdaviator9181]

This is a bit confusing. A ketch can be a Bermuda, Gaff, Junk etc. You confuse the Bermuda rig with Sloop. A ketch is a sail plan, not a rig.

[@ImproveSailing]

Yes, you're completely right. I'll have to correct that in a future video.

[@JayPerrypersonal]

Obviously as this guy hasn’t much sailing experience and he really should not be advising people on the subject he himself is only learning! Great he has enthusiasm but that’s it! Sorry to be so harsh but it is both wrong and dangerous for armchair sailors to give advice especially about offshore or blue water sailing! Read his bio on his website he dreams of owning a blue water sailing boat and he sails on lakes! Great that he sails and many top professional sailors started out on lakes, not a dig at him personally but please, please people stop giving advice if you are not qualified to do so!!

[@edl617]

Wait a minute you’re talking about a rig catch rig but you’ve never sailed with one so that makes you a Gesser whereas I have sailed a ketch and I prefer it

[@ImproveSailing]

Hi Ed, I've read up on the ketch a lot and know people who've sailed them; I've summarized their experience in this video. Now I know one more sailor who sailed a ketch, thanks for sharing.

[@GrumpyOldMan9]

He sounds Dutch

[@boattalk1089]

Hilarious having someone explain something they have never done. Typical KZbin sailor.

[@finding_mojo]

As you admit, youve never sailed a ketch so.....how are you able to speak with any experience?

[@Adm.AAleixo10]

Parole, please not.

[@billybonewhacker]

Humpty Dumpty had a beard and a KZbin channel 😭!

[@JayPerrypersonal]

Sorry but do you actually sail?!! I really don’t think people on the internet should not give advice about what they obviously don’t know about but have just read about! Especially when it comes to sailing offshore, stupid and dangerous!! A lot of what you said about a ketch rig is simply wrong! I have sailed for 40 years and live aboard full time cruising. Owned 5 yachts 4 sloop rig and now a ketch, Amel Super Maramu. No a ketch is not faster downwind than an sloop, especially is the sloop has a larger mast so will fly a larger downwind sail in light winds. You can balance a sloop especially with furling main just as easy as a ketch. The only advantage to a ketch really is it does give you more options but is not as powerful as a sloop and usually will not sail as close to the wind. As for cost of maintenance then simply a ketch costs more as more rigging and sails and running rigging etc. I love our ketch and much prefer it to our last boats that were all sloop rigged. However really should take into account I’m comparing and Amel to our last boats that were Jeanneau etc. So a huge difference in build quality and design. All I’m trying to say is PLEASE DON’T give advice on what you don’t know about. That is not advice but just speculation on your part!

[@davidlester6673]

Don't give up the day job.