Sailing Couple Tragic Accident At Sea - Lady K Sailing Ep 306

[@larrygraham1580]

I just finished a passage intended to go from Beaufort N.C to the USVI on a rather small Niagara 35 with just the Captain and myself. We are both over 65 yrs old. Your account of the sad loss of these owners highlights the need for a solid boom gybe preventer. We did have the boom prevented but had a Hydrovane ripped partially off where it was smashing the cockpit badly. We ran into Beaufort 9, 43 kts for an extended period overnight and faced huge breaking swells a day or two later. We were about 700 nm out with Bermuda as the nearest point. Apparently, not too far from us a Catamaran Mayday call was being answered with a cruise ship. We heard from a nearby freighter that they were in 55 knots of wind. With a lot of luck we both survived but the boat sustained some damage and I broke three ribs. We diverted for Bahamas where I flew back for recovery and as of today the Captain is still making repairs in Nassau. I agree, unless you have witnessed these conditions first-hand you cannot appreciate the situation and how quickly things can go from bad to much worse.

[@LadyKSailing]

Glad you both made it through that ordeal!

[@mountainmandale1587]

Life at sea is always unpredictable and potentially dangerous. God speed.

[@MikeKisil]

When mother nature is scorned she shows little mercy except for the very few who respect it for what it is .

[@genglandoh]

I am 68 retired been sailing since I was 15. I solo sail on Lake Erie in my Watkins 27. A few years ago I slipped and cracked a rib sailing at night. Yes it hurt but I could still control my sailboat. Started to wonder about what would happen if I get hit in the head with the boom. So I lined my sailing cap with foam making a homemade bump cap to help protect my head. After watching this story I will be asking Santa for a real bump cap. I may even upgrade to a Kayak helmet. After all I am 68 and I do not care how stupid I look. PS After cracking a rib I started wearing a vest style PFD all the time to help protect myself from a fall.

[@LadyKSailing]

Wow! Glad you are ok

[@donhearn2248]

I hopped from a Hobie to a 27 foot race boat with a fractional, to a 40 foot mast head.....the only other boat I sailed on at that time was a 26.5 hunter. I really liked the Hunter (I know...yeah...I know). While I got tons of time on the water, I would not call my self knowledgeable of sail boats in general. The 40 footer was eye opening. With countless summer days on the water..I was absolutely NOT ready for sails on a 40 footer. The power and weight of the sails is so much more. I think I got that boat late 20s early 30. I was super fit and in my prime....and it was a challenge compared to the smaller sail plans. I always remind myself, to be mindful of giving advice...just because I struggled does not mean other will struggle...but even with that .....when random dock people, liveabords, racers...whatever... tell me their plans for 45 this 50 that....even 60 plus....I always think...man...what is the plan? I get the benefit of living on a 50 or larger...but dang....sailing it? Alone? I could not do it, and I know that does not mean you can't, or some other sailer could not...but...really...have a plan. Even as couples it does not mean you will always have two people...when you need 2 people.

[@jonjonsson4270]

An amazing boat. Good sailors, good crew. We forget that before coast guards existed, experienced sailors and crew were lost regularly. What a tragic story.

[@MikeStoj-wl8ct]

Great job telling this sad story.

[@LaughterOnWater]

I came here to say the same.

[@bobgranafei6809]

The lesson here, as in the other case which was referenced , is that on big boats the concept of in the boom furling is not viable. The weight of the boom often is over 1500 pounds plus the wieght of the sail. In the event of a jibe, or even a partial jibe, the power of the boom overwhelms the preventer. In this case both the preventer and the mainsheet were compromised. What we can take away is 1) avoid in boom furling on big vessels, or 2) if such is going to be used then the preventer system must be massive and perhaps doubled. The crew did an outstanding job and should be congratulated .

[@levio1463]

Where do you get this boom weight of 1500lbs? the one in question is made of carbon fiber so I would guess it is pretty light. If you want to avoid in boom furling on boats of that size then the reefing systems get pretty complicated. your average single line reefing system is not capable of working under that load. Also preventers do not work very well on large boats as well, the loads are just so high. It comes down to a geometry issue, there is no good place to secure a preventer so that the loads are not multiplied due to poor angles. There also isnt another point on the boat that is as strong as the mainsheet track, so even if you had the worlds strongest preventer you would just rip the boat apart. The only way to prevent an accidental gybe in heavy wind is to not sail dead down wind.

[@joseerazevedo]

Great point: the added weight of a furling system to the boom will only make things worst! In-mast systems have a ligther boom because there's not even the weight of the sail there.

[@levio1463]

@@joseerazevedo assuming your sailing, wouldn't the sail be hoisted and thus not in the boom/mast? meaning that it makes no difference? Also in mast furling adds a lot more weight up high in the rig which has a large negative effect on the stability of the bot. i.e. easier to knockdown and capsize by big wave. both systems have compromises.

[@OhanaNZ]

Reef early. Then reef again. Always shorten sail BEFORE you need to. Super easy. Unless you are racing with a full crew, then just SEND IT

[@rustysailor4672]

If there is an advantage for in-boom furling vs. in-mast furling, it was not apparent in this case. The bad reputation of in mast furling comes imho from the countless mistreated sails on charter boats. I would agree, that a stuck in mast furler will cause serious troubles, but good maintenance and training go a long way to avoid this. On another note: This is the second case, where a preventer failed to do the only thing it was designed to do.

[@joseerazevedo]

Amel has in-mast furling since the 1970's, they developed their system. They state it is easier to furl under heavy winds. Since they have decades on the system, I believe they've come to a nice solution. From what I've seen on their system, it it well coordinated to prevent the sail from furling the wrong way and getting stuck. Also I think in-mast reduces the sail area faster than boom furling (ok, it depends on other points too, that's only my impression). When they created a new version of their boats, the owner, Mr. Henry Amel, used to go for a circumnavigation alone, writing everything that had to be improved (story says). And he had bad sight... One more reason I believe their in-mast system must be good. Recently the couple from the channel Sailing Aquarius on YT was finishing their circumnavigation in the middle of the Atlantic and lost both of their masts on their super Maramu. I haven't seen the entire video on the failure yet, but it seems it was due to unpredicted strong jibes from the boom and another system that kept the genoa open. these two forces, together, pressured the base of the main mast, forcing it to break and, when it fell, it took the small one with it. Nobody was hurt, they managed to motor the boat to the caribean, with the help of a catamaran and a freight ship that gave them fuel.

[@shannonlowe2412]

I do dream of crossing oceans, these stories always make me sad. They also make me think more about safety but have yet to deter me. Tim you are very good at telling these stories. Miss your Historsea Channel.

[@mesmes1958456456]

What a sad story. Thank you.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching.

[@georgegibson707]

Compelling and tragic story. Thankyou for telling. The forces at work on a yacht that size would be large.

[@adamhharbin]

I did the straight run from Bermuda to BVI in November of 2019. It was my first time on a sailboat - I said screw it when do you get the chance to do something like that. We hit stormy weather on day one and then by day two is was perfect. Best experience of my life.

[@JheregJAB]

Honestly, in-boom furling may allow for battens and therefore better sail shape and performance, but it has many other disadvantages that I think get downplayed too often. Many of them have to be almost perfectly horizontal to furl correctly, which can make them finicky to furl in weather. The design of the boom and hardware added also means that the boom itself needs to be very heavy, and that increased size makes it much more difficult to control. Finally, since the furler is relied-upon to reef, the sail doesn't get reefing points. On a traditional sail with reefing points you can pull the sail down to the reef at least. I think I'll stick to my slab-reefed main, stack pack, and lazy jacks.

[@louisavondart9178]

They hired experienced crew, including a captain. I'm not so sure their experience was enough or that the owner listened to the captain. Who tries to furl a powered main ? Head into the wind first. Even a dinghy owner knows that much. On a new boat like this, the headsail is furled from the cockpit so why was the owner out on deck doing that? Yes, I know, a 30 knot wind is a storm to most KZbinrs but on a 66 footer it's a breeze. So are 30' waves. What kind of preventer was used ? A single point sheet on a boom of that size isn't going to last long if you haven't reefed on time. I'm thinking that a language breakdown and an owner wanting to make time/sea miles, rather than reefing at the proper moment was behind this event. Sad but entirely preventable.

[@robertgulfshores4463]

Thank you for helping us understand this terrible tragedy.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@Cptnbond]

Rolling up the main sail can be challenging if the boom is at a different angle within a few degrees of the mast. Reducing the main sail can be challenging going downwind, as with other furling systems, particularly for boom rollers. The boom is also heavier than other systems, thus placing a high load on sheets and other components. Cheers.

[@doughoffman9463]

Outstanding recount of events and assessment.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@glenchase1294]

If you think you might need to reef, it's too late ! Been there, very scary

[@fredjones7307]

Has no one heard of the term " to hove to " even under bare poles. I would have thought the first priority was to get the boat head to wind and more or less stationery with the use of the engine. Sounds to me like total chaos reigned...

[@sultanpoppa3735]

Agreed, I thought that was the conclusion as to why so many boats were lost at the Fastnet disaster, the survivors hove-to.

[@richarddykiel8141]

Another example of the dangers of fleeing downwind in a storm

[@tzena-cx4ty]

Excellent chronicle! Thank you

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching, it’s a difficult story to tell.

[@robertmorrison107]

If it gets really bad, I'd rather turn into the wind on a close reach to avoid those dangerous gybes due to waves moving you. If you can't adjust the sails with automatics, cut them. You should have brought extra. If you didn't, well slower and alive is better. Last, I know this boat manufacturer probably spent alot of money with lawyers spinning this story, but it is one of learning to use your manual systems first and THEN enjoy the comforts of automatic magic.

[@albertofourie3294]

Seems these large expensive yachts are at more risk in bad weather than what they're worth!

[@ewjorgy]

Wow!

[@1Tane55]

Shorten Sail, Shorten sail at night , shorten sail untill the speed is below hull speed, shorten Sail for even thinking that you might need to later. I Sailed mostly Other peoples boats and they don't want you to arrive with a broken boat. So slower is safer especially short handed with an untrained crew.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for the advice, always good to be safe!

[@artcamp7]

this boom is like the slasher in a horror movie. it keep coming back to kill again

[@jackechan1311]

Thanks for sharing that harrowing tale, Tim. I wonder why an underlying theme across all sailing channels is that the forecast is significantly different that what actually transpires.

[@Franco.Zanchi]

If you don't depower the main before you reef something will brake. Especially in strong condition, and if it's a big powerful boat like a CNB then you're very likely to get hurt. Old story but very sad.

[@scottfuller6063]

Excellent storytelling.

[@LadyKSailing]

Many thanks!

[@paulkent5755]

why didnt they just power into the wind to furl the main

[@JheregJAB]

On a big boat like that, in big wind and heavy seas, it can be both difficult and dangerous to go head to wind. Its hard to know for sure, but I suspect that in the worst of it they were worried that the turn through beam-on to get there was more dangerous than the position they were already in. Then things happen, you go into survival mode, and it gets hard to tell what is the more immediate priority and what the best course of action is.

[@brookingsbeachcomber]

technology is great till it breaks

[@artcamp7]

I think the main lesson is to always duck out of the way of the boom

[@javacup912]

I have not made any oceans crossings, and do not intent to. Have been sailing on and off since 2015, and plan on retiring in the next few months, and eventually go island hoping, including the ABC islands. Not interested in getting beat up at over 65, but rather to enjoy the islands on my 35 foot boat with 4.5 feet keel, until my time is up. Great video, but such of sad and terrible story.

[@Aussie-nd7si]

Furling the headsail should be able to be done from the cockpit anyhow, and simply coming head to wind would take power off the main and allow it to furl as well. All experienced sailors know how quickly things can go wrong. At night, in a biggish sea, with higher winds, this accident was preventable with even a little caution. I see no reason why they would have left the yacht.. 2 men, it's an easy trip back to the coast

[@markchase273]

I was wondering why they didn't head into the wind too. My only guess is they didn't want to put their beam in to the seas and thought they could lower it powered up.

[@Aussie-nd7si]

​@@markchase273nah, I have been there, too much confidence in the boat, and yourself, and not wanting to lose time, even though it's only 10 or so minutes. From 2 years cruising around the world with my kids I learned a big lesson, caution has to be a constant state of mind. Even the most simple things can go wrong at even the best of times.

[@jonathanrichard1919]

Your a great story Teller.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you kindly

[@stevebolszewski]

Your channel is evolving 👍🏻

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@bybeka1]

Thanks for the good outsigth, you warm weather sailor! 😂 Very graphical. Hehehe. Unfortunately accidents can be come unexpectedly from every corner , and big boats are cool to sail but under trouble, you have a big trouble too.. Prays for the couple, at least they passed away doing their dream. 🙏

[@Mulelicious]

I agree, no ocean passages for me. Close to shore is much more comfortable and safe. My Dad got hit by the boom once. Lucky for us it was a 32 foot boat in light conditions. Maybe there could be a laser system that projects the bottom of the boom swing for safer operation at night.

[@thomasmixson7064]

Being caught off guard at night by a storm of this significance aboard a ship of this caliber is unconscionable. It's dereliction of duty, and even the yougest, raw Midshipmen of old would likely face charges if such a thing happened on their watch. Arrrrr, avast and be off wid ye, matey

[@ninehundreddollarluxuryyac5958]

Have you considered becoming a ghost writer? How many times did the survivors say the boom crossed the deck in the report? What you did there made the story work in an exciting way. I was lost at sea when I was ten years old with my entire family, we floated on an inflatable raft for 13 hours before firing flares and being rescued by a passing ship. Want to do a book or collab of some sort?

[@TheAdventuresofPrinceDiamond]

I don't understand why the crew didn't start the engine, full power, wait for a lull between crests and then go head to wind? There would have been no wild boom, nor problems in getting the sail down. You can't get a main sail down with ANY wind on the stern. Terrible situation. [Circumnavigator here]

[@1Tane55]

Equipment is very important and I have a problem with the boom furling , they are massive some weighing ove 2000 pounds all because of the vang and the assembly to make it with stand those forces. I have had a couple of boats with boom furling that was light and simple the sail rolled up around the boom, it worked really well and they still had full battens, weighing very little more than the standard boom.

[@jesuschrist-alphaomega]

This is so sad 😞

[@sauter1]

So tragic. Another case of just because you can (afford a massive boat, in this case), doesn't mean you should.

[@alpgurpinar7285]

So sad.

[@Aeolus999]

My 1990 bene 320 is designed by Phillipe Briande

[@commonweakness9060]

I'm a would be sailor...and hope to one day have a small boat of my own. But hearing this story I wonder why did they not just cut the mainsail free after it had caused so much damage? After the injuries and the call for help.This question, of course, comes from a state of ignorance. Thanks for the video.

[@dougnval]

why not turn the boat into the wind and lower the main and jib then? why are they trying to lower the sails when they are filled and have that much pressure against them?

[@billh2294]

Question: Is there any calculation for size and type of line that could withstand a backwinded main of a given sail area, at a given amount of wind? Was there ANY line that could of held with that size main in those conditions?

[@JheregJAB]

its probably less about the size of the mainsail as about the weight of the in-boom furling. Even a small amount of movement for a boom that heavy generates huge forces. The fact that it broke the mainsheet itself says a lot. A thick, strong, semi-elastic line with a 3 or 4x reduction would probably be the solution there.. personally I think I'd prefer not to have the furling boom to begin with.

[@dnmurr5128]

Outstanding narrative and graphics, though sad ending. Imagine had the owners not hired on a crew.

[@quancij]

Sure training could have helped or even prevented this tragedy. But like many tragedies it's a confluence of "misses" that led to the disaster... no one. I also think boat designers have a role in this... especially when they design large expensive boats with very large forces/loads that one can foresee being operated by less skilled folks (experience and/or strength). A higher percentage of owners of large boats will have less sailing skills having spent more time ashore working and less time on the water. So designers need to recognize this and build more robust systems (use higher say factors in their engineering) with their large boat operated by amateurs designs (ie the "fragile" main sheet and preventer systems that fell down when mistakes or the ocean "happened". It's hard being a designer where one day it's a race boat for an expert owner with a pro crew... but the next day it's a world cruiser for an ageing couple. But designers need to factor in who is going to operate the boat and the sorts of problems/mistakes they will have (frankly an accidental jibe in high winds is not an unforeseeable mistake... its going to happen if you are on the sea long enough... and shouldn't break the boat... mainsheet, traveler, preventer, vang, boom and gooseneck should all be robust enough to survive an "unmanaged" jibe. Sure that means heavier and more costly systems... but that is the price of safety... double so on a large boat where breakage can quickly become life threatening. Last... Designers need to consider not just the skills and needs of the original boat buyer... but also the second and third owners. Who they are likely to be... what skills they will likely have. To not do so is designing a time bomb... that will hurt someone in the future.

[@wahid-lg1kk]

Boom brakes, gentlemen. Well designed expensive boom breaks. On top of the preventer, which should be used anyway as needed. My opinion, for what it's worth.

[@sultanpoppa3735]

I’m curious why heaving-to was not an option. They had plenty of seaway. But I’m a shoreline tracer and I’m second guessing experienced people.

[@Walterpoltsamaa]

I don't think telling stories about people who died at sea is gonna get more people sailing more easily

[@Elle-gc6fh]

What specific part of the preventer failed?

[@keshermedia]

😳😵‍💫😬 This is a very sad story! 🙈🙈🙈

[@gutplucker]

How utterly awful!

[@Spot_the_dog]

What a tragedy. So when going from the Caribbean to far north, stay on the coast. Got it.

[@pmnfernando]

no. it means that buying a 2 million dollar boat doesnt make you have what it takes to be at sea. it is tragic of course, but this comes down to inexperience. sailing isnt rv'ing.

[@blackmax222]

Paraphrasing the Hip, but it's kinda true. Boats and Hearts ....... when they fall apart, they really fall apart. Maybe do something for SV Theros Piece be with them

[@jwwebnaut7045]

Please, don't forget the SUBTITLING!!!

[@LadyKSailing]

Sorry- should be there soon- it just takes time

[@meddlehedd1194]

Once in that situation, what could they have done to stop the jibing? Could they have cut the sail to de-power it?

[@MrBubdog88]

I feel that a furling boom system is too heavy, just my own opinion .too hard to control, just like it simple slab reefing for me.

[@Frog13799]

In my humble opinion anything but slab reefing does not belong on an offshore boat.

[@moejaime2654]

Best lesson is don't sail on a damn boat in the middle of an ocean !!! Second lesson is cruise ships are safer than 60 foot sailboats !!

[@waltercaraballo4856]

😢❤

[@andrez3640]

So sad....life is short they did what they wanted on their terms...

[@VigilanceTech]

Sail area shouldn't be adjusted with the sails so heavily loaded. A safer way would to have been to round up into irons FIRST then reef. All these fancy modern boats have these electric winches but a good sailor can sail without any winches at all (save for the halyards) by merely pointing up a bit until the sail is depowered then adjusting the sheets. This can be done virtually anywhere except in tight channels or in a crowded seaway (e.g. during a regatta). In this case having those electric winches actually worked against them giving them a false sense of security they could reef witht the sail under such loads. With manual winches they probably never would have even tried it and rounded up to begin with. Also, a twizzle rig would have been FAR better/safer for such a long downwind run.

[@janhamstra2135]

Shouldn they hed on in the wind in order to take the tension off the main and than reef as much as needed? At least thats what i came to mind

[@Tb0n3]

I don't understand why they wouldn't just head into the wind to take all the pressure off of the main. With all their experience that should be the first instinct.

[@billbogg3857]

Go for a ketch rig……

[@larrymeyer2917]

I can’t even finish watching the video. If you want to take on the oceans in your sail boat, please get the appropriate training and have a hard nosed competent skipper in command. Here you have a well built boat crewed poorly resulting in a catastrophic event.

[@MikeKisil]

Nasty as nasty can be especially when all the tools needed are at hand heck I don't think anybody makes those for the tool box .

[@Hindsight-cl5vm]

This isn’t even close to what really happened.

[@Hindsight-cl5vm]

I know the crew members and it wasn’t 2 men.

[@WatThaDeuce]

@@Hindsight-cl5vm do tell?

[@cynthiagonzalez658]

Sail around the world 😑

[@johncampbell9216]

What is it with everyone copying me??!! :D

[@carly8299]

Your channel doesn't have any content?

[@johncampbell9216]

@@carly8299 Does it need to? I was involved in an identical accident last year, since then two more have occurred.

[@LadyKSailing]

Wow! Glad you are safe

[@johncampbell9216]

@@LadyKSailing Alive, but lost everything.

[@mikefougere]

Sad for the couple and crew, As this video unfolded I was recalling the life of the Nova Scotia sailing legend Joshua Slocum. a true ocean navigator. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3yZi4SfhLp6b68si=MqxUTaX3bEYaf_Hp

[@joseerazevedo]

The lesson I take from this is: always keep an eye on the weather, specially at night. Use the radar if the plotter has no sign. Be prepared. Sorry for the losses.