SamSon New PB at SCMP - Big Tire Slicks on Radial Prep Track - MSD Rotor Melting Issues Please Help!

SamSon New PB at SCMP - Big Tire Slicks on Radial Prep Track - MSD Rotor Melting Issues Please Help! This is our latest passes and new PB from 3/11/23 at South Carolina Motorplex on a heavy radial prepped surface. Run by run analysis is covered in this video.
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[@a2zpreps658]

I love your videos and depth of explanation you give. You don't just say how your adjustments affect things but explain why. This truly empowers others to make educated, calculated decisions. Initial thought on rotor button problem is some ground/ground loop issue. Maybe research the terms star ground and floating ground. The importance of good grounds is so often under estimated. Primary voltage should use a star ground IMO. A common example is trailer wiring. Some will rely on the ball to provide trailer ground. Some will tie the truck connector to the chassis with a bolt. Others will run a wire from the battery ground to the truck connector. The last is the most reliable and an example of a star ground. Secondary voltage is created in the coil, travels through the coil wire to the rotor and from rotor it is distributed to each plug wire and corresponding plug, jumps the gap in plug and finally sinking the secondary voltage to ground through the plug to head connection/threads. So, the only potential ground for secondary voltage should be the plugs following that path. And all of their ground potentials should be nearly identical (which becomes obvious below). A rotor out of phase can cause the secondary voltage to have to jump further than it should from rotor button to plug terminals in the cap. This can cause lots of issues from excessive heat to misfiring. If it's out bad enough the distance/degrees on either side of the rotor (the plug it just fired or should fire next and the one it should be firing now) could be nearly equal. If your doing any digital timing manipulation it could all get tricky. With a V8 you only have 45 degrees of rotor rotation per cylinder minus some degrees to insure the path of least resistance is the plug you want to fire. Say you run a max total advance of 40 degrees and you have 20 degrees of digital retard while cranking. If the coil fires when the rotor is exactly aligned with the center of the plug post with no digital manipulation its perfect. But when you add 20 degrees of digital retard you are now firing 20 degrees from that. This also means the rotor is only 25 degrees away from perfect for a neighboring plug post in the cap. Not much room for error. What happens in this scenario if the ground potential of the plug connected to the post that is 25 degrees from perfect is a fraction better than the ground potential of the plug that is 20 degrees from perfect? Advances that use mechanical manipulation come with their own problems but can buy you some distance/wiggle room. Individual coils are immune to this issue all together. The car is looking awesome too!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Thank-you! Great info and explanation! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@a2zpreps658]

@@KevinWilsonSBC Thanks, congratulations on your health improvements too! Really enjoying that.

[@conniekahl8015]

Good job on PB and on your self,.Your looking good man!

[@keysautorepair6038]

I noticed when I bought a new msd rotor it was made like this a hole in the center my old one doesn't have one so guess what I didn't use it glad I didn't.

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

Any electrical problems, I always go after all ground to chassis connections. Re-Seeding is the terminology for connectors, before the car goes to the track first time every season... re-seed all connections. (dis-connect re-connect all connectors) Brake, line-lock, battery to chassis... everything.

[@jeffdean1878]

I’m sure you have checked but the only time I had that problem was the rotor was out of phase. Maybe it’s out at idle as most set it at full advance which would be correct. Car looked good!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Thanks! I will be confirming the phasing for sure!!! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@bryanmorris7052]

This is the answer right here the only way that much heat is building up is if the spark is jumping too far

[@johnrobinson7980]

Check gap on crank trigger . Had similar issues

[@paullatham3411]

As to the rotor bug, the primary voltage is not the concern. It’s the secondary voltage causing the issue. What’s your spark plug gap? Shrinking your gap should help reduce the voltage (heat) jumping to the cap terminals. I’ve been down to .022” to fix misfire and heat issues in my distributor. Or, your could upgrade to independent coils. Cheers!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Good info! Currently running .026" gap, but I will bring them down to .024". I just don't understand why some caps last fine and then others melt even during an idle warm-up, but your info makes sense!! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@jeffreylong1841]

@@KevinWilsonSBC Take your plug gap down to .018 you won't have a problem. Top Fuelers run at .011. On my turbo Drag Radial car equipped with an MSD 8 I run .018 at about 1700 hp.

[@AustinBoil]

A couple of things. You said the track had radial prep. (my pet peeve is why do radials require a special prep if they are supposedly a superior tire? Why do they always complain about running during the day or warm temps if it's superior? Run the same for everyone.) I digress. 😎😎😎 With a tight track you said it chattered the tires which you can see in the video. You want to take away some bite to get the slick moving instead of shaking from too much bite. You mentioned you added tire pressure. That ADDS bite, the opposite of what it's asking for until you get too much air & the tire is convex & riding on the center of the tire only. It's a myth you can't lower the pressure because the car will become unstable. I've run 34.5 slicks down to 4 1/2 lbs with no issue to gain wheelspeed at the hit. On a Ok track they would be 5.5 to 5.7 lbs. By lowering the pressure, it allows the tire to cup slightly to remove a little bite. It won't be unstable down track unless you get way out in left field with low pressure. On the shock adjustment side, to take away bite (either on a very tight track or at night when the track temp drops & it gets tight) a typical move would be to tighten Compression and loosen Rebound which allows the back of the car to come back up sooner which in turn takes away some bite as it moves down track. 2-3 clicks will make a move but not drastic. To add bite you do the opposite, loosen the Compression & tighten the Rebound which holds the back down longer. Don't be afraid to use the bars to get a little wheelspeed at the hit, that's what they are there for. Too low & they will lift the back enough to go into spin, it's a fine line but it works. A lot of people forget to use them as a chassis tuning tool. I know I've preached it before about shock sensors but it's the only way to really know what those changes are making as every set of shocks & car setup is different. It's only $$$ 🤣 On the MSD cap, that looks like a mechanical failure that got the rotor contact off enough to cause heating from the gap to the cap increasing. What plug wires & plugs are you running? I'm no expert but that's my $.02 for what it's worth, you are making good progress & not afraid to make testing changes, that's how you do it. Good job!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

I absolutely went the wrong way on tire pressure!! Great point! Good info in this comment Austin!! Thank-you, Sir! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@AustinBoil]

@@KevinWilsonSBC One more comment. If the tire chatter at the hit was the only place it ratttled, then you just need some slip at the hit which you can get with pressure or wheelie bars. If it's rattling the tires in the shake zone (1 sec - 1-3 sec) then the shock adjustment I mentioned above will help. You probably have seen the air dump you can add to your Penske's, that you program. The purpose is to launch with the tight Rebound, then dump the air which releases Rebound (typically .75 or so right before the shake zone to help reduce or eliminate the shake) Cheers, Mike

[@shawnwieser7101]

Another great video... I noticed you do a dry burnout before water box... I assume that's to clean tires because track is sticky? A video on turning using tire pressure would be great too... you talk about not having too much tire pressure on tall end in this video could you elaborated more... i believe there are some tuning points with the front tire pressure too?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

The dry burnout is to clean off the tires, grass and dirt, so I don't carry that trash into the water box before my main burnout. I will get a video out on tire pressure. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

IMO, you should go straight to crank fire with individual coils. You are likely running locked out timing anyway so your new distributorless magic box would be pretty simple aka cheap.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Spot on... I need to switch over to coil on plugs for sure! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@flinch622]

I can't speak to msd gear, but generally insulation materials failure begins with overheating, and primarily those incidents are brought about by loose or dirty/corroded connections. Guessing by how that tip is attached, I wonder about surface area as joined. Absence or loss of flatness between joined parts is lost surface area, which may cause overheating. If you have an IR camera, basic guidelines fall in 3 categories regarding temperature rise over ambient: 30C= trouble starting: watch, but should be ok a little while before corrective action is taken. 45C=action must be taken: one or two months left [maybe]. 60C=repair now: failure is imminent. The nature of a distributor is its own problem - can't use these cameras with accuracy on things in motion - gotta catch it immediately after shutdown.

[@1320wolf]

We melted a rotor when our balancer key broke. Car ran good, then not good, then good. The relationship between the trigger wheel and distributor changed and caused it to fire out of phase.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

I will definitely confirm phasing. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@BroomysGarage]

What do you log with the fueltech ? Rpm, Driveshaft speed, accel g force, shock travel ? Would be good to see driveshaft and accel g force comparisons as well with changes made run to run.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

The FT 550 has a gmeter built in so I log that, pitch angle, RPM, Boost, EGTs on all 8, oil pressure, water temp and fuel pressure at the distribution block on the back of the hat. More sensors around shocks and driveshaft speed in the works. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@mk-xg2kt]

gap. you kan gain some on gap. but easily lose a lot. Of course, I'm not sure I'm right in your case. but know that if you have a small gap, the ignitoin parts will last longer than if you have a large gap. the energy has to go somewhere

[@craigbowers4047]

Just a guess, the crossover voltage requirement at the plug is high, to much antiseize or oil on the plug can insulate the plug. Personally, I think the copper based 3M antisieze is more conductive than the common nickel based stuff and a tiny bit goes a long way. If you're using copper washers they need to be clean. FYI Scott Wires has a pretty good low resistance plug wire, and it seems plug manufacturers are having more issues with quality. I would definitely check your rotor phasing at the minimum and maximum timing you run. I think the rotor is trying to tell you something is unhappy on the secondary side. I'd also check that the timing mark on the plug corollates with what you have dialed in. Good luck getting the issue resolved.

[@RiversideRacecraft]

Definitely plug gap causing that. Tighten your gap considerably. .015 or less. too much Air gap in that much cylinder pressure is causing too much resistance. That will eventually burn up your coil as well.

[@markgiraldes4062]

Maybe a defective battery on off switch ? 🤔

[@toddsculley2710]

Sounds like a bad connection even though it was tight arcing and got hot and melted

[@redslewis4058]

Had the same issue. I figured out my ignition was firing before the rotor reached the terminals in my cap. May or may not be your issue. The 2 pickup wires to the distributor to the box will retard timing if backwords. Mine was wired as per msd. But, apparently wrong and retarding my timing. All I did was flip the wires and it advanced my timing and never had another issue.

[@redslewis4058]

Oops, meant advanced. Hope you get what I mean. Lol

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

I fixed it by phasing the distributor. It was firing past the post, which was creating a bunch of heat and pulling the rotor button back toward the post. Thanks for commenting!!!! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!!

[@garyrisley3781]

OK so what did MSD say ???

[@keithgriffith6002]

Think I would check the dwell.

[@AustinBoil]

Just use a matchbook cover like we did in the old days. 🤣🤣🤣