Kill Team | Why I Was Wrong About Into the Dark

Welcome to today's Warhammer 40,000 Kill Team video where I talk about why I was wrong with my original takes on Into the Dark! I go over the pros and cons of season 2's main way to play, covering how my thoughts of it have changed over time!
#warhammer #Warhammer40k #KillTeam #KillTeamITD
00:00 - Intro
01:00 - ITD on Launch
02:58 - Cons of ITD
08:11 - Pros of ITD
12:19 - Why I Was Wrong about ITD
19:44 - Overview
22:36 - Outro
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[@earnestwanderer2471]

It really is very nearly two different games between ITD and open. One of the things I like best about ITD is the fixed terrain layouts. Coming from an historical board war gaming background, it feels more “correct”. More predictable and therefore repeatable. Like if you were playing the Battle of Waterloo, it wouldn’t be on a map of downtown London.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yeah, the layouts were great. Just wish they did some asymmetrical ones 🥲

[@ObsceneSuperMatt]

@@CanYouRollaCrit Asymmetrical Crit Ops? Since there is always Shadow Ops, but those seem a little unbalanced, maybe not as well playtested.

[@LoicGuetat]

Always best KT videos on YT. Thanks for all your amazing work.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Ah thanks, you're too kind 😅

[@Dudewithaspork]

I think there's something to be said for the noob-friendliness of ITD's terrain. It's just a bunch of walls essentially, if you're someone just getting into the hobby you could mimic the entire thing with cardboard

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

That's true, I've seen one local player do that!

[@FiannaBat]

I'll miss ITD. So many teams got such interesting plays and while it wasn't all perfect, it was a nice way to shake up the game.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

I think a lot of places will still run it but interesting to see what S3 brings. Yeah, ITD was a much better way to shakeup the game instead of KT Elites or Characters again 🫠

[@FiannaBat]

the main thing i wish they added to ITD was a bonus for the defender. I suggested at my locals that defender, since picking sides doesnt matter, should get to open one door on their side of the field. It would give some power to teams that dont have comms and let the defenders get setup faster

[@left_Dane_right_Dane]

Currently I play with 2 other friends, and our one that has all the ITD terrain has been deployed for 6 months, so we've just been playing open board and I really REALLY enjoy coming up with new maps for us each time. It's incredibly fun. All my maps are asymmetrical and I still try to balance it out so that one side isn't a supreme advantage, or it at least comes with some cons. While I look forward to playing more ITD in the future, as it's a completely different game, I do believe I enjoy open board much more for the same reasons you stated. The battlefield feels like it has a lot more depth and options for tactics. I enjoy board layouts that at least give models some light terrain to move between as they advance up the board, and some heavy terrain here and there to hide from vantage points. Gaps in the map design usually get filled with the barriers players place. It also has the benefit of being something to blame a loss on if you lose catastrophically! But we have some home brew rules for if that happens (reinforcements, things of that nature to keep it fun)

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

That all sounds really great!

[@willscurran]

All great points. I do like the ItD board layouts BUT ... I also prefer matched play where you don't know the hoard layouts and they are more dynamic. It rewards more versatile play/players/lists and on therefore reduced some if the min-max that occurs.

[@zGetsu]

As a new player that wants to go to tournaments, the biggest deterrent for me is not being allowed to use multiple teams. My favorite is Tau, but because they are terrible on ITD, I can't play them.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yeah I get that but sadly the majority spoke for that ):

[@Speakhardly]

Great review!

[@dakotahluster4343]

Excellent video today brother! This means you will like LVOs format :)

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Thanks dude! I'm super hyped for LVO 2024 🥳

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

It’s great to hear you change your stance on mixed layout events. I agree that they need to be setup so you can have a set number of matches on open and another set on ITD, otherwise you’re not fairly gauging player skill. I honestly hope they keep fixed layouts for season 3. I have to wonder if teams like Votann would get to open/close doors for free if you paid a circle of movement instead of an APL to do so.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yeah, mixed is the best imo. Especially if players get equal playtime on both Same, more fixed layouts would be great

[@homeless0alien]

big disagree personally. Think it makes the game way less fun.

[@aleczandergordon1298]

ITD was the best thing to ever happen to killteam.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Woah let's not get crazy now

[@pauldalton6999]

I like both board layouts, fun for different reasons

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yup, a really nice dynamic

[@000NULL]

The ITD terrain is magnificent for all games. You can make squares and other buildings for any other board, just throw a plastic sheet over the top of the “building”. It’s very versatile. Maybe I’ll design a 3d platform specifically for the ITD terrain, and increase the height…

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Well, it works great for Zone Mortallis 😅

[@ryza7760]

i hope they bring it back some how again, maybe it not on a space hulk they could make it inside maybe a hive world ? use walls as sewers or densely packed factories, idk i just really like the idea of it being used for more than just space hulks

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Zone mortalis!

[@ryza7760]

@CanYouRollaCrit I wanna play zone mortalis so bad you have no idea, honestly the biggest reason I was so hyped for ITD was for the terrain but then all the boxes sold out instantly and I only got a single set of the walls. well I guess I'll just get a 3d printer atp

[@Lazarastube]

Love this content! Positive and insightful! Keep it up (L)

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Thanks (:

[@TheClausbenjamin]

But John, we are not savant and have photographic memory like you so autoplan can be quite hard😜🤣 my journey in KT began with ITD and tbh open scares the hell out of me😬😜 especially with my legionaries into shooting teams on open😔

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yeah, autoplanning is the biggest hurdle for ITD when playing it. Ahhh, yeah Open can be quite the change

[@viewtifuljoe4412]

The reason why I have not played or gotten anything related to ITD is that I was not able to get anything associated with ShadowVaults and honestly I am not a fan of the terrain being the exact same besides the small stuff throughout the 4 boxes. I got the first 3 boxes of the 1st season (the Nachmund terrain is just too big for me to justify use in KT). I wanted to give it a chance because Shadowvaults looked really cool with the two kill teams as well as the stuff that came with it. but since that sold out quickly and that there is no reason for me to jump in when there is no legitimate way to get the complete set if I wanted to. I hope that the new season comes with boxes that have terrain in them because quite frankly GW has a very piss poor selection on their website.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yeah hopefully availability is better

[@drich.5984]

Aside from any of the rules and impact to actual game play, the thing that kills Into the Dark for me is the physical setup. It's a big hassle at times, and if you do a mixed event you can't just set one mission for all tables; you have to set a Close Quarters and an Open mission and then move terrain as such

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yeah...plus you can hurt your hands. You just gotta set em all up start of the day. A parts seperator really helps too

[@drich.5984]

@@CanYouRollaCrit hahaha yeah this is true xD A sorting bin is a definite must, I agree. It'd be cool to see you do a video on how to run a tournament, especially a mixed event

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

I plan to do something like that in the future but I need to run a KT event first 😅

[@drich.5984]

@@CanYouRollaCrit Bah! you've been to enough to at least help us newbie TOs get a good grasp of what players expect :P also info for crit ops events seems so scattered. I feel like me and my locals learn stuff all the time that isn't "obvious". Examples being that TacOps aren't random, or that you can only pick one archetype, or the deployment being in 3rds, not defender does all their units. Etc.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

True and I've run events in the past but KT is different aha Yeah that's kinda all scattered unless you watch my Crit Ops review etc

[@colincraythorne9265]

Really enjoy ITD, but from a practical aspect it takes too long to set up for a quick after work game.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Yeah setup is not fun 😅

[@Ace-ch4hg]

What a good possitive video, I really like it 😍

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Thanks, glad you did (:

[@bargeryfamily]

Weird that you say that there's no cover and the corridors are fire lanes and then that shooty teams are weakened, bit of a paradox? I enjoy the less stress first turn aspect of Gallowdark, it's much better for newer players. Removes the first turn alpha strike potential that can lead to feel bad plays. Our local league had a boarding party box from GW to allow us to play two games a league session. I did have to paint it though. Cheers for the videos!

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Well kinda but in terms of close range shooting and teams with 1 or 2 key shooters. Removes alpha strike but now leaves now chance to realistically harm key assault threats until they reach you

[@bargeryfamily]

@@CanYouRollaCrit Key assault threats that have to Charge you? Isn't that what Point Blank Overwatch is for? Meaning those shooty teams can get a shot in when charged with their shooty weapons.

[@ninjalee8379]

is another reason you like it because your playing fellgor at the moment by any chance? hehe ;)

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Noooooo 👀

[@homeless0alien]

Im similar to you here. I much prefer Open and agree with all your cons around ITD. I also really dont like the whole fixed layouts/pre-learning T1/T2, just think its super boring to only really have to make decisions on half the game. Ive dodged all the ITD boxes (not hard with GW stock) and just dont play it at all at this point. Excited for the season to be over so I can be excited for the new season 3 boxes.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

Prep work is boring, yeah, but will be interesting to see what S3 brings

[@homeless0alien]

@@CanYouRollaCrit honestly, for me its less that the prep work itself is boring and more that it just removes a significant amount of decisions and fun during play. Like I love theory crafting rosters, loadouts, matchups etc. But due to the 2D maps of ITD, the simplicity of those maps and their fixed nature, it just means you end up playing half the game on your own before you get to the table. Like you may as well legit skip TP1 against a skilled opponent, it's just scripted. Personally open play fixes some of this regarding map complexity and it's why I much prefer it like you said, but the biggest thing for me is fixed maps. GW needs to come up with a competitive ruleset for randomised maps because even on open play TOs just pick some of the official maps or have a set of fixed maps they made for balance which are then released beforehand. Which means you still get the whole pregame problem again. I know some people love knowing ahead of time, but because of how quick kill team plays over just four turns, I think one or potentially two of those turns being essentially pointless, effectively reducing in the moment skill-based decision making by 25-50% due to pregame, means you are deciding the game extremely fast in those critical turns. Kill team has a robust ruleset for unit comps, interactions and scoring which is why I love it, but the way the game unfolds currently is not ideal imo and is made 10x worse by ITD imo.

I find the "3D effect" of open terrain is kinda fake. You mostly just have special zones that negate conceal and they happen to look like raised areas. Its more like maps in the original Doom PC game.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

But...it's literally a 3D environment, especially with cover lines for shooting

@@CanYouRollaCrit So is Doom... What I am saying is: I would hope we get some Necromunda like terrain instead of "Climb on boxes on a flat plane"

[@JimCrimmins]

I stopped playing when into the dark landed... Kill Team 2d wasn't my jam. The Ashes of Faith box has me excited again.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

That's fair but I rate ITD a lot now! Although hope we see more Ashes of Faith style boxes

[@an0nycat]

Nah. Short-legged dwarves and short-handled gunners don't look very strong on an open table either. 🤔🤔

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

I think they're good on open still

[@RyanF1313]

I think ITD has boring terrain and it’s a shame it’s 2D.

[@CanYouRollaCrit]

That's fair, I would have liked the terrain way more if we got Xenos walls etc