KILLS Really DON'T MATTER In Valorant

[@Carsian]

Stats are, like most other metrics, a tool. Such tools are used to diagnose and help remedy specific skill or role gaps; treating them like a "get-good-o-meter" never helps. Great vid.

[@plebdeadlock]

I think another important stat for a viper/KJ player is rounds won while being alive, not dying early is important, but actually clutching rounds for your team is the reason why you need to stay alive. Personally I think this is one of the best stats to show how you provide real measurable impact.

[@DecipherXXV]

Agreed, I don't mind FNS staying alive to preserve his uti and have impact around the map, he just doesn't have the clutch genes like Crashies or Yay when they need him the most

[@WanFPS]

This logic could definitely be apply to the pro games since it's an actual team vs team scenarios with all the callouts and setplays. Obviously kills aren't everything but if I see 1 more instalocked Reyna that goes 4/18 on my team with no comms, I will lose it.

[@Myaimskindagood]

What about a 4/18 with comms?

[@Myaimskindagood]

@Taotl I always say I’m going to w key in and give info always. With this upcoming Reyna buff it will be much easier….

[@fireblaze6837]

W reyna main?

[@JohnSmith12122]

just insta lock reyna urself then

[@Willdroyd]

Yeah, in solo queue kda actually matters more, in a place where you cant trust teammates not dying and being able to get kills is a lot more important when u cant trust a teammate to trade you out for example

[@keepups1586]

I think ACS is a dumb stat to rely on, if you go in and get 55 damage and die, you could get more acs then an intiator who controlled the round, got good info and didn't get any kills but stayed alive

[@massimodotti__2496]

Yeah

[@jackalpwn42]

I think all the boys underperformed a bit in those games. More importantly though, I think Loud is just a solid team, plus they had the luxury of watching Optic play a bunch of games. It's just a shame we won't see Optic this year for VCT 😔

[@marvszn_3543]

nah some org drops their whole roster and picks up all of optic

[@jackalpwn42]

@@marvszn_3543 you right

[@TSG_Toaster]

@@marvszn_3543 lmaooo no, they broke up like a week ago, check any of their twitters they broke up the team

[@glopiumm]

@@marvszn_3543 there’s too many buy outs likely won’t happen

[@emmanuelobodozie713]

@@TSG_Toaster you missed his/her point tbh. He's saying since optic dropped them, another team can just buy them out.

[@otakuhero2621]

It was a very informative and knowledgeable video. I wish you could work with riot to sort of implement this somehow into the RR given after a game, because it heavily favours ACS and I don’t particularly like playing a duelist. But I get that it’s hard to give RR based on these stats

[@keonkla]

Honestly I think that is what it comes down to to why most people have the kills equal RR mindset. Not everyone is soy jacking over esports stars when playing valorant ya know and only care about getting there own rank goals. Its why its even more stupid if the people talking about this watch esports, kills and deaths don't matter in pro play but they will always matter in pugs.

[@sekiro7397]

Splatoon 3 started doing performance based ranking LMFAOB

[@ValorantAscended]

Are you a Stats Steven?

[@wish8486]

i'm a mindset manny

[@qlockwerk553]

tactical timothy? idk

[@Blaezey]

Baiting Barry

[@iputsoapinmyeyes]

I’m a insta locking reyna

[@space4226]

@@iputsoapinmyeyes gigachad

[@nova3129]

There should be a Crowd Control score like there is in League, something like 10 points for smoking blocking vision, 30 for flashing / dazing & 50 for detaining etc

[@koi5106]

honestly, as an optic fan and igl myself, i really respect fns and his calls as he's extremely critical at set plays and insane at midrounds but the only thing that upsets me with him is that he occasionally doesnt get the free kills he should be getting, but sometimes he pops off so whatever i guess.

[@troy323]

The criticisms of FNS not performing well individually are very fair considering two of three maps they lost were by a differential of two rounds. Had he shot better it is very possible Optic win that series 3-0 or 3-1. FNS is not known for having renowned mechanics after all. Without a doubt in my mind though, FNS contributes way more good than harm in ways that a most can't full grasp due to not playing, coaching, or being involved in the game at the highest level. The strategic system, in-game protocols, and team ideology that both FNS and Chet had carefully constructed were the biggest reason for Optic's consistent success IMO. Even in the Grand Finals, Optic was the more tactically sound team. It just so happens that LOUD had some of the best players in the world playing in the best form that they've ever been in, and at the end of the day the team that gets the important kills no matter the method is going to win the game. It is very difficult to replicate FNS's calling and overall impact on team culture and mental without having both the Game IQ and years of experience that he has. While I agree that stats don't tell the full story, I dislike how much this video focuses on ACS, which is agreed upon by most pros to be a terrible metric in general. Overall though, I think this video does a really good job of drawing more attention to and explaining the more nuanced side of pro Valorant, especially for the average player that is bound to have misinterpretations about how the game is played at the highest level.

[@featherleaf1426]

Judging by Kills is like judging a defender in football on how many goals they scored.

[@the-core-experience]

HAHAHA i like this, goal keeper getting assists on goals.

[@ByteOrg]

Could we possible have a download link for this chart? It would be very useful for people trying to study agents and how to play them properly

[@fabianoberlim9636]

Loud Saadhak always compliments FNS. And says how hard it’s to play against FNS strategy

[@TheGeckoEffect]

Great vid! You are a very underatted channel and deserve a lot more recognition.

[@zskclb]

"factual" copium

[@11Hugo11]

Actually, your acs is often not in your control. When you play Raze for example and you have a skye on your team that doesnt know how to support you, you will die pretty often while entrying for your team.

[@0Adnin]

Though I enjoy Valorant on side. This is something i have time and time mentioned on the CSGO Forum. just because a person as a lower rating or has lower KD. doesn't neccessarily makes him a bad player. There are lot of moving parts in the game and its due the support of such players teams can have an edge in winning. Great video on how stats are not just 1s & 0s.

[@jawadmahmud7678]

Would it be possible for you to share your spreadsheet data from Champions 2022?

[@patat007]

All low ELO instalock duelist should see this.b

[@Johnspeed1141]

Great video about the map and agent comparison! One thing we could take into account is the stat differential between the players. For example on Ascent, unlike other maps where he matches with most players in the stats, he is last but the differential gap between his counterparts are huge across the board. However, if his stats were close among the lower quartile of the group maybe it would be less egregious. To add to that, maybe a distribution table to show where he is located might be better visually.

[@scherexyz]

somewhere, you gotta draw the line between underperforming and having impact somewhere else. And the first Bind game against Loud in the upper final was my line. He played atrociously, and he knows it. I never climbed with a KD greater than one cause i call shots and find impact through better util usage. But you when shit hits the fan when your kast drops below 50%. There is no excuse for that on a support/lurk agent, it means he didn't hit shots, had poor util usage, and died in positions where he couldnt be traded

[@renatoalvarodutra5275]

I think I can add one overlooked aspect of all this. Yes, everything mentioned in this video I can agree. The agent pool, the maps, and the fact that stats are not equal to impact, and of course the fact that he as an IGL has his mental power focused and preoccupied with other stuff (info, decision making, calls, strats, etc) and of course having to a certain degree micro manage more things in a game than a regular player. But in spite of all that, I think there's a factor that you can not put an statistic to it, the fact of how clunky his mechanics look. Don't get me wrong I'm not implying that he as a player is clunky or that he is a bad player (if this was the case he wouldn't be able to compete a such high level) but is undeniable that his mechanics are not as "clean" and as "polished" as other pros. And IMO this is due to the fact that he as an IGL probably spend most of his time studying other teams, preparing strats, watching vods, customs for utility prep/setups, and working with the coaching staff and therefore he simply dont have the time or the energy to keep working on his mechanics, yeah sure he scrims probably for 4-8 hs a day but scrims are not really a great enviroment for fixing bad mechanicall habits. I've been following and watched the pro scene probably since the beginning and even tho FNS was never know for insane mechanics, he'd never look this rusty. Of course this is a completely subjective opinion bc of what I'm saying is just a guess and I don't have numbers to back it up. But you can see the way he aims is not as clean, he shoots way before crosshair on target sometimes, he kinda overswing in certain angles and he sometimes skip angles in the process of clearing them. Most of this he could probably clean them with a couple of hours in DMs if he dont want to play ranked soloQ, but as I said he probably dont have the time or the energy to do so. What you guys think?

[@cynthiahembree3957]

I think he just had some bad games. I noticed he wasn’t doing super well during grand finals. But a couple of the other series I watched he was performing as usual. Also there is the possibility that there was just so much pressure as well that could have had an impact. I could be wrong tho just my thoughts tho

[@mkfife]

Did you actually watch the video? It seems like everything it talked about you just threw out the window. Without data, you’ve simply cherry picked instances where you remember FNS showing below average mechanical skill.

[@renatoalvarodutra5275]

@@mkfife i did, and the first sentence I wrote was an agreement with the video. In any point I said that FNS is to blame neither I said that he "underperformed", because the game for me is far more than good mechanics, I even went as far as saying that I dont consider him a bad player, because otherwise OpTic would never be so dominant, and all I said was just an "addendum" to the video of something (I also said) is MY personal opinion. And I'm not cherry picking, is a know fact bro, if you think FNS is on the same level mechanically than other pros, you are delusional. That doesn't make him a bad player, is just that he also as a human (talent, hand eye coordination, reaction time) and as a player (do to it's role, training methods, view of the game, etc) has its own limitations. I don't get why you get so salty about it, is no like I insulted your father or something

[@seankim2916]

@@mkfife did you read the comment lmao

[@mkfife]

@Taotl haha I did read the comment, but it’s a gd novel, I shouldn’t have tho, took way too much time for way too little information

[@MuskMonkey]

I wouldn't say that this logic doesn't mean jack in ranked, but it's close. You have to win to get RR. To win you generally need good support. Good support generally has lower acs, and therefore gets less RR than a deulist would (except for bot frag Reyna). This is a major lack with the RR system, and no I have no idea how riot could possibly fix this. I think Riot is trying to genuinely provide the best ranked experience that they can. As far as bot frag Reyna's... We have all also had the top frag baiting Reyna on our team... Not lurking genuinely baiting for frags. These are the games that Reyna mains loose. Bot frag Reyna that isn't baiting and actually trying is preferable IMHO.

[@happystar56]

I think people also forget that there are only so many kills to divide up between a team. if someone is doing really good, then someone or multiple people on the team will just have less kills because that's how math works. simple example you have two teams with no sage, and one of the teams one every round killing everyone on the opposing team each round, there are only a total of 65 kill that have to be divided by five people, that's exactly 13 per person if it was equally divided, if someone gets 20 kills that's 7 less to divide between the rest of the players. Add that to the rest of the things you said in this video and you can see how someone might feel to a viewer that they are underperforming, but can still be doing very valuable things that can't be quantified in raw statistics.

[@MB-ig7bw]

nice video, you teased it a bit on this video but can you make a vid that shows how bad/misleading ACS is?

[@abhinavvinod4879]

How do you get the dataset for players

[@canadabiss]

Can you please upload your spreadsheet?

[@TeMrThe]

but its the only matter in low rank

[@PPSzB]

The biggest thing people forget is in every Valorant game, there's a limited amount of kills you can get. And if you have one of the best aimers in the world on your team (and we all can agree, that Yay is one of the best), you'll get significantly less kills/damage than someone who plays the same role and agent in a more balanced team when it comes to aim. Very often in VCT, when Yay was on top of scoreboard, FNS was way behind everyone and when Yay wasn't on top, FNS wasn't rock bottom.

[@owen.th.t]

What website do you use to see the parameters of optic gaming at the beginning of the video?

[@commandertoothpick8284]

Stats don't matter in pro play. It matters in pub ranked matches

[@vowing]

Hi, immortal 3 player here. I have a 1.05 kd and a 140 adr, yet I have a 66% win rate with about 30 wins this act. On a viper game that I won 13-5, I went 8/12. I used my abilities, strat called, and sometimes even just straight up told my teammates to stop or back tf up. I clutched about 3 rounds on attack single handedly just because of util usage (lineups). I never had to use my rifle because of the way I was playing with my teammates and having them play around my utility. The game is very much not based around your kda and adr if you play certain agents.

[@Zvilll]

It’s inexcusable when the enemy team also have IGL and also played the same agent. Their bottom also drops more frag than 2 optic bottom fragger. (Grand Final)

[@dec1085]

I'd love to see more of this series. I'd definitely like to see you do Shazam cause he is getting a lot of hate and I think a fair amount is undeserved

[@abhinavvinod4879]

How did you get that data?? If anyone has any idea please let me know

[@ValorantAscended]

I tracked everything manually using the data from RunitBack and VLR

[@error-null]

nice video, although I feel like there isn't as much raw info as your other videos. also I could tell the editor was struggling to find any footage to show on screen at some points due how little they had to work with. still an enjoyable video

[@xxcridonxx7614]

I like to tell my duelists thankyou for even if they die and bottom frag as long as they take space. A lot of low elo players think that a duelist should be getting a 3k every round not understanding that their job is to take space

[@jesushart3238]

FNS rn is getting what we sentinels fans like to call “the zombs treatment”. Happened to shaz after zombs left. Always a scapegoat

[@D4ng404]

What all ppl don’t understand is that K/D does matter. You have to provide as much kills as you do assistance. Of course if your other stats are off the charts it means your K/D can matter less, however at the end of the day it’s a number’s game. There are two ways to win the game: the bomb and eliminations. With how many VCT rounds go down to a scrappy 1v1 or a clutch 1v1, a single kill means winning the round and changing the trajectory of a series. FNS consistently goes single digit kills, had he get 2-4 more kills it would change things entirely

[@abhinavvinod4879]

Which website is that

[@YoTerrako]

I’m just now getting back in to valorant what is acs

[@the-core-experience]

Stats are the average of what a player can do, if what FNS can do on average place him on the lower end of the scoreboard, then even if he was at his best in some rounds he would still be in the middle of the scoreboard, which you know, might mean a difference between winning and losing the round, and the first place. So, the question of whether FNS's performance cost OPTIC their first place - definitely. When your entire team is that good, and preps done and good for, it literally comes down to performance of his.

[@spheality]

if anything it shows that FNS for being mechanically mediocre is doing a lot purely by making calls and making strats with the coach. I would still argue that optic can't win on maps they have less practice on though because FNS can't perform well in unfamiliar situations. He's mechanically good enough to even win duels with a slight advantage or trade incredibly well on rounds they should win. That's not to say FNS is the problem all the players have their flaws, but to say that FNS' performance wasn't the reason optic lost to loud isn't true. There were several things that had an impact, and FNS was definitely a decent part of it.

[@-alon3inhell792]

Agreed, also Optic lost two maps to extremely close rounds, I feel like if FNS showed up consistently they would have taken it 3-1

[@TheRealMrBillyBob]

Solo queue has a more important emphasis on k/d than pro scene

[@sparky321]

tbh even tho stats don't exactly matter he still performed terrible

[@safalgaonkar8677]

Could you make a dream team video with your stats

[@magma55100]

FNS is one of if not the best IGL. However, i don’t think you need to defend him for his last two maps when he tweeted out himself it was unacceptable for him.

[@dhruvshah2067]

Isn't soulcas the igl for team liquid?

[@troysmithfr]

As of Champions, it was ScreaM making the calls

[@ChAnTAxR]

It’s still a little odd for a sentinel to be bottom fragging, most of the time they are getting 1-2 kills constantly just from set ups, let alone swinging off teammates contact

[@Won4aII]

Tldr: yes he could've played better, even as an igl he fell short individually

[@epiczer0ripper792]

the Grand finals overall is not really optic day there performance is not on par with Loud ,maps is not on their favor as well and DRX almost beat optic means that Loud is much more dangerous than DRX

[@DEVTHEGREAT636]

I would rather have a 50-8 cracked jett in my games than a 4-20-10 sage..

[@becbarmaq]

I always thought Jamppi was an IGL for Liquid, no? And recently DRX Zest said in an interview that he's an IGL for his team, but I keep seeing that everyone says is Stax IGLing for DRX.

[@becbarmaq]

You can watch the interview here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hovFcqxoeZd2q6c

[@yourjustdesserts]

Why not compare FNS to agent roles instead of just agents?

[@troysmithfr]

I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head with the exact same pool as him; it might be harder to do that

[@termid_]

FNS is fucking big brain I will say his gun fights are a little lack luster but shit his IGL is SO GOOD

[@shivagp9923]

Someone hire this guy as an analyst

[@becbarmaq]

he's already signed by Acend

[@rebeccaxu9734]

I understand that it is a team game and FNS is definitely one of if not the best igl in valorant currently, there are just many times that he does not deliver on gun play. He has the brains, just not the consistent mechanics as some of the other pros.

[@EdwyCasts]

I think a better way of analyzing performance is not looking at his ranking vs others, but taking an average of everyone’s performance and seeing how far he deviates from these averages. Great video nonetheless, I think it’s clear Optic’s map pool outside Bind is shaky and you can’t point fingers except maybe Ascent.

[@the-core-experience]

Nah, sorting by roles is important, not everyone plays as IGLs and sentinels/initiators, you cant really compare a jett to killjoy.

[@EdwyCasts]

@@the-core-experience I agree with that, what I’m talking about is instead of analyzing FNS as the Xth best Killjoy on Ascent, you take the average stats of all Killjoys on Ascent and seeing how he fairs vs that average not how he ranks

[@the-core-experience]

@@EdwyCasts ah, i get it. Well... im pretty sure FNS had 2 digits where others have 3 on acs on multiple maps hahahaha.

[@scherexyz]

"If you want to win a tournament, every player in your team has to frag" it is true, it's an fps after all. You will never find a masters winning team with some guy on sub 100 acs and sub 60% kast. When optic won masters, fns played way, way better individually

[@owenhunter2629]

Would you be willing to share this spreadsheet?

[@houdinics2]

Judging a FNS who's not supposed to be the topfragger for the lack of a positive KD is like asking Shaq to be the topscorer in the Lakers.

[@dd_dd_00]

no optic in vct 2023 anyway

[@Simon-is2xd]

PLEASE FOR GOD'S SAKE EXPLAIN WHAT ACS IS

[@stormkp2338]

what is ACS ? anyone

[@shinn43]

average combat score

[@stormkp2338]

@@shinn43 Thanks

[@chrislair6296]

If nothing about franchising would ever happen, I think it would be better to leave Victor out of the team. I think he's quite inconsistent and needs to be more effective on his roles. Ah, and let Marved play viper on Breeze.

[@Dazai_861]

Plat players watching this video telling themselves that going 2-19 on instalock jett wasn't the problem since they IGLed 😖

[@Mohammed_Aly]

Also people need to realize that these are pro players, aka players that are far better than your average radiants so these are no easy game

[@selfconscience]

It’s not that deep. FNS not being the sole reason for optic’s loss and him not winning duels still costing them a trophy can BOTH be TRUE. U can’t be aiming to win a championship if you’re dropping 5 and 17 in a grand finals series. Especially if you talk so much shit on stage. You have to be locked in both in strats and in duels.

[@keonkla]

Its like people are forgeting that this is a First person shooter.

[@raspberry_picker395]

true and he himself said it's unacceptable to perform like this. but bad days/games happen, even when in finals. his impact as an igl shouldn't be dismissed because of this and that's the point of the video. kiles was -31 in the grand finals of champions 2021, yet they managed to win the series. and wasn't even the igl on acend

[@raspberry_picker395]

also note, nats was +31 and played pretty much the same agents as kiles, yet his team lost

[@troysmithfr]

@@raspberry_picker395 True

[@ginagonzalez5478]

Then give me the rr I deserve!!

[@aishatugusheva5746]

Dry head 62

[@davidelsea1296]

It doesn't mean everyt hing but when it comes down to it. You gotta hit ya shots. Plain and simple. At the end of the day its all about scoring and you can't score if you dont hit ya shots. As yes they are roles to be played. But take all that way and you still have to shoot.

[@Stuc0ts]

Thanks for saying this is a spoiler for those of us that haven’t yet watch the final, oh that’s right you didn’t! I finally was going to finish watching it tonight because I work and have to watch a few hours each night but thanks to your video I know who won just seconds into it. I have unsubscribed and will never watch another video of yours again.

[@waytikkatzuka]

Intelligente hunter 67

[@shaunybravo]

Lowkey just shat on fns a bit. Least the first 5 minutes.

[@umpalumpa7454]

Hard water 72

[@ДенисКолесьянкин-ы7п]

👍

[@martinrogan6641]

well fns is never performing good, imo he performed the best he could this tournament.

[@raqhis3494]

Stats don't really that matter. Maybe someone playing bad all round, until at last round he clutched 1 v 3 to win the game? who knows. I guess too many variables in this game, too unpredictable IMO

[@anoon.2704]

It's not that stats don't matter but these particular stats are not very good indicators of impact. If Riot recorded the little stats that appeared here and there with abilities (enemies blocked by smokes, enemies blinded, enemies revealed) and perhaps an aim based stat (honestly, this would be tough but stuff like 1v1 gunfights won, reaction speed on kill, etc) could definitely make things easier to measure performance. However, as you mentioned, way too many variables increases combinations and interactions exponentially so, yeah, too complicated to only use stats to measure performance.

[@ashishtembhekar4251]

this reminds me of Zombs , happened the same to him last year, on Viper on Breeze against Team Liquid. was bottom of the scoreboard all game until at match point he 1v3 with a pistol and pushed SEN to OT.

[@raqhis3494]

@@anoon.2704 Agreed, even tho stats isn't only the way we measure how players peformance was, we still need stats to somehow gets a "base" to measure the game flow as a whole

[@Biishop_]

scores count in 5v5 scrims and probably higher elo matchmaking but for anything below diamond your score is probably a good indicator of how well youre doing for the match. All this video does is tell the KJ on your team or player on omen that he can bottom frag and go 5-17 and its not his fault because he maybe put down a killjoy ult and retook site once

[@FuRyHate]

Stop defending FNS about his frag , i think you don't know who nats is

[@jakavovk8202]

All good tho

[@slownerd]

zombsnation

[@archive0024]

LMAO How much FNS paid you? just change the title "DONT BLAME FNS WHY OPTIC LOST VCT22"

[@brianwaters9979]

this is so cope, fns sucked those last 2 maps

[@moistorphan5110]

kills/deaths do matter, but not for your visual elo, they matter for your hidden mmr which allows for double rankups, and performance bonuses

[@moistorphan5110]

also the way you kill people matter, if you ever wonder how you didnt get mvp even tho u had a few more kills and a few less deaths and in general u did slightly better in every metric than the actual mvp, the chances are the mvp had better headshot/general accuracy. valorant tracks a ton of things that arent mentioned in the after match stats screen

[@robbe4129]

Is this exel?

[@isaiahcaldwell4689]

cope

[@Mitchelllhu]

So you're telling me a player that goes 11-31 with 65 ADR in an upper final is not a concern and their performance should not be questioned?

[@JeffDays]

do you realize that everything they do is essentially to set up yay or victor for kills? if things go south and the support players are left in say a 3v5 situation, of course their stats will look shit

[@Mitchelllhu]

​@@JeffDays .7 k/d player. .65 k/d on fade, .68 on breach -20, -23 in the upper and grand finals. Worst whiffs I've ever seen a pro player do. But no he's one of the best players right? Go to his vlr and check 90d stats. Almost laughable that he is on a tier 1 roster. It's clear he is just carried by his star players.

[@mkfife]

Well, he’s a pro… and you’re not… so there’s that.

[@craft_warrior177]

@@Mitchelllhu mans not even listening lol

[@JeffDays]

@@Mitchelllhu he literally leads the entire team lol, being an IGL at a tier 1 level is insanely difficult. keep being ignorant though, and hardstuck in whatever shit rank you are