Kinefinity Mavo S35 II - The best affordable cinema camera yet?

[@tbip2001]

Crazy what can ne had for the money now. I wish the viewfinder was a little less though! Really hope black magic come out with a boxcam around £3k

[@carlyates2487]

I agree. Unfortunately good viewfinders still cost quite a bit. Blackmagic's does, and Canon / Sony / Arri / RED 's versions all cost 2/4x as much

[@tbip2001]

@@carlyates2487 no doubt. I would love to see a lower cost add on evf for the c70 similar to blackmagics evf for the pro

[@carlyates2487]

@@tbip2001 Agreed!

[@DubYaJsWorld]

This is a good price but the zcam f6 pro is the one on my radar. It also has a braw option and full frame. I would love to see the mavo va the zcam f6 for image quality.

[@carlyates2487]

I'd love to compare the two. Haven't seen an F6 Pro yet though.

[@maksudsharipov2046]

@@carlyates2487 regular and pro versions both the same picture quality

[@ultimecraft]

the kinefinity is better for image quality. (more dynamic range and better codecs)

[@maksudsharipov2046]

@@ultimecraft 14 vs 15 on paper

[@ultimecraft]

@@maksudsharipov2046 On cine D the F6 has 12 stop of dynamic range and i think kinefinity mk2 is betwin 12-13 stop but we need to wait some test

[@jeremy_woods]

I really really love the image from this cam. I like it more than the rest from what I’ve seen.

[@carlyates2487]

I love the image from all the Kinefinity cameras to be honest. I’ve used a lot of cameras in this job and some of my favourite footage has been from Kinefinity cameras.

[@guyduncan00]

Been waiting for a full breakdown and you guys delivered. Great video and very compelling piece of kit.

[@carlyates2487]

Glad you found it useful!

[@warvellous]

Are you reviewing the new Z CAM F6 Pro in the near future? Hope you do!

[@Cinematographer_brenton]

very interesting camera, I had a chance to play with this at NAB and it feels like a komodo with more features, or a god alternative to the ursa 4.6k. 6k prores4444 is very nice as well, I want to play with this :)

[@carlyates2487]

If you are in the UK you are more than welcome here at ProAV to try it out.

[@loiccardenas]

Great videos guys! Indeed this camera is in a weird spot but I think it fits great as a Red alternative for us who need to raise up our game eventually with a whole new ecosystem but don't want to support RED's Raw hostage situation haha.

[@colinthomas2525]

Exactly

[@ononearts]

An S1H or BS1H gives you much, much more bang for the buck, especially considering how much more you have to spend on additional equipment and media to make the Mavo work.

[@moomoochacoo]

I thought this was going to have the built-in ND? Good camera but i run and gun alot, ill probably save up for the one with the ND filter built in.

[@tonytech5520]

Is the active E mount licensed from Sony or reverse-engineered?

[@Trevellian]

Yes, would like to know as well. If reverse engineered, might Sony take offense?

[@TheDominicballard96]

I'm surprised you didn't compare to a ZCam.

[@carlyates2487]

True, I should have included the new Zcam F6 pro in the comparisons

[@raredreamfootage]

I think the URSA 12K is still better value given the resolutions, frame rates and codec (assuming your clients don't mind BRAW).

[@carlyates2487]

It offers a huge amount. Very different form factor than the Kinefinity cameras though.

[@chrisjenkins9978]

Why no ProRes Raw? That alone would make this camera unstoppable.

[@carlyates2487]

They had to take it out because of patent issues... we believe with RED. Don't underestimate ProRes 4444 and how far it can be pushed in a grade though.

[@TheJ_G]

I keep hearing it’s the same sensor that’s in the Fuji XH2s. Any thoughts on that?

[@carlyates2487]

So hard to tell.

[@esmpmedia8586]

Your epic scenery make any camera looks 100 times better than it actually is. Where is this location anyway?

[@xfinalchapterx]

man if this cam had some sort of braw flavor, even externally, i'd by one in a heart beat.

[@carlyates2487]

That would be fantastic. Don't underestimate just how good the Prores 4444 is to grade though

[@CrisBaggins]

I am not convinced by the proprietary media and the scarce dynamic range.

[@Dezdirectz]

How so?

[@TimsWildlife]

Nice camera! I still would choose a cheaper ZCAM, which are fantastic in every way, over this one.

[@relaxwithme3266]

I wish to buy this camera. But I have a few questions. Can I just use my Small HD monitor I already own and still operate the camera (with no lag via SDI out) or do I need to purchase their monitor? Also do you know where I can download some ungraded sample files?

[@relaxwithme3266]

Question: does the menu show up on external Small HD monitor? I don’t have budget to buy Kinefinity body and monitor at same time. Thanks

[@chicobraz4335]

16 bit like Arri ? So it’s about a stop to stop and half behind Arri Alexa and 3-4ms slower shutter than Alexa ?

[@GuapoBhutto]

Looking forward to a breakdown of the Mavo LF mark2 next!

[@carlyates2487]

I have already covered the Edge 6K which has the same sensor. And this, which has the same body. So an LF 2 video would be a lot of repeating... I'd love to get all 4 cameras in the same place and make a video comparing them all, that would be good to see.

[@ciinelog]

@@carlyates2487 Hello, will you make a review for the z cam e2 f6 pro also?

[@carlyates2487]

@@ciinelogPossibly, I’ll look into it.

[@StillPictureProduction]

No internal ND in 2023 is like a cell phone with no App Store.

[@8KHDRVideoBySittipong]

A nice camera, but it could not available in Thailand

[@brivnii]

Rolling shutter isn’t bad at all! I bet better than most mirrorless today

[@Shotswith.aj_]

Will you guys be doing a full review on the Mavo LF m2?

[@krishnansrinivasan830]

Awesome & Thanks :) I really like it :)

[@jovannyvirapin7672]

Can we use this camera with others monitors ? Like atomos ninja v+ ?

[@MichaelLoda]

I love watching videos about cameras that I'll never buy because I'm broke

[@carlyates2487]

Don't we all!

[@calebhyatt5090]

Were you able to measure the dynamic range? Thoughts on that performance?

[@carlyates2487]

We do some over and under exposure tests at 4:37 To me the dynamic range is fairly middle of the pack. Not high enough to be exceptional, not low enough to be a problem. Which considering the price and how many other features the camera has is reasonable enough.

[@calebhyatt5090]

@@carlyates2487 Cool! Would you say it comparable to other cameras in the price point? Zcam, fx3, fx6, etc?

[@carlyates2487]

@@calebhyatt5090 I would say so yes. It's hard to tell really without putting them side by side though

[@Will_i_art]

FIRST!

[@carlyates2487]

Thanks for watching!

[@raredreamfootage]

How's the rolling shutter?

[@tbip2001]

What is the reason for no raw option? I realise true raw is down to reds patents, but other manufacturers have their own versions of ‘raw’. What stops kinefinity? Also, what’s the reason we don’t see more 444 options on cameras? Is it because once you go to raw , it’s no longer worthwhile?

[@Trevellian]

Most of the other manufacturer's internal raw formats aren't truly raw, so don't violate Red's patent. IIRC, Red's patents describe lossless, internally recorded, direct sensor dumps. Believe Blackmagic and others get around this by compressing high bit depth video. The higher bit depth allows greater adjustments in post. But it's not a lossless format, as they discard large amounts of data. Because most of these 'raw' formats aren't lossless, they don't violate of Red's patent. The other way around the patent is to record externally, as external raw recording has been done far longer than a US patent's 20 years. Odd that Kinefinity doesn't offer a snap-on external raw recorder.

[@qiyuxuan9437]

Red raw is not lossless, its "visually lossless" which is still compressed raw. RED's patent is for compressed raw video, ARRI uses uncompressed raw to avoid red's patent, but at the cost of very big file size.

[@Trevellian]

@@qiyuxuan9437 Yes, Red Code is compressed. Yet there are many other compressed formats calling themselves raw that do not appear to violate Red's patent. This is likely because they are not 'as raw' as Red's patented raw. These other raws appear to be baking in some parameters that Red does not, allowing them to avoid Red's patent, at the expense of a lesser latitude for adjustment in post.

[@nonameexpdng]

The fact they even abandoned CinemaDNG is beyond sad

[@qiyuxuan9437]

@@Trevellian Yeah, braw does some of the debayering process in camera, rather than fully debayer on the playback device like true raw does. But ARRI's uncompressed 16bit raw is true raw, but the data rate at 4k is equivalent to 8k compressed raw, which is insane.

[@benceszentivanyi]

I'd really like someone to address Kinefinity's Raid 5 data protection claim on their SSDs. The problem is that with 1 drive it can't have Raid 5, the minimum for that is 3 drive so a 1 drive system can't have any fault tolerance, so I'm pretty sure it's a false statement. I've seen/read it in their announcement of the Edge 8k, 6k, LF Mark II and on the Kinefinity FB Group. I'd like to assume it's a mistranslation and not something malicious. I'm very curious what could this protection be, maybe some sort of checksum for every clip?

[@Trevellian]

Agreed. Sounds like marketing nonsense.

[@Journeywiththehintis]

In terms of image quality be honest how is it compared to the edge 8k? Which is more superior in that regard?

[@carlyates2487]

The Edge 8K is better overall I believe. Perhaps i'll try and do a side by side with the whole range... that would be interesting to see

[@Journeywiththehintis]

​@@carlyates2487do it tomorrow 😢😢 Please 🙏🙏🙏😅 When are we expecting that? I just subscribed

[@calebhyatt5090]

So, the mavo lf2 would be an overall better buy in terms of image quality, dynamic range, etc since they share the same sensor?

[@carlyates2487]

@@Journeywiththehintis They take a bit longer to make than that I’m afraid! 😅

[@carlyates2487]

@@calebhyatt5090 The LF mk2 has the same sensor as the Edge 6K, not the Edge 8K I do like that sensor as well though… it’s hard for me to say which one has the nicer image! I will try and organise a side by side for people.

[@Ed-davies]

Just take my money!

[@ProAVTV]

If you'd like to buy a Mavo II it is available here: proav.co.uk/cameras-lenses/kinefinity-mavo-mark-2-s35

[@Shotbyxclusive]

Seems like the same sensor as the fx30 without the down scale

[@carlyates2487]

Possibly as they may well be buying Sony sensors. However the resulting image is very different from the Fx30

[@richarddimery]

4:34 I think you guys need to match the FOV for the rolling shutter test to see a difference.

[@carlyates2487]

You are 100% right. It’s a flawed test to begin with though as I’ll be panning at different speeds in each. We are looking into more scientific ways to test rolling shutter in-house so hopefully we will be able to do comparisons more accurately in the future.

[@richarddimery]

​@@carlyates2487 Knowing the ms is most helpful to me, personally (but I guess you need to be able to measure that), also handheld walking shots are where I tend to see real-world issues with rolling shutter. Whip panning, train shots, and strobes are probably shots for a Komodo... Maybe that's just me though 😅

[@carlyates2487]

@@richarddimery Thats useful feedback thank you. So your ideal RS tests in a video like this would be an actual measurement in MS in different modes and then a real world example like a handheld walking shot?

[@richarddimery]

​@@carlyates2487 For me, that would be more useful. Micro-jitters and 'jello' are the main issues. I know how readout speed relates to my type of filming, but I can appreciate that it's good to be able to show a visual representation of this to viewers.

[@Kemstylebossy]

what about dynamic range?

[@carlyates2487]

We do some over and under exposure tests at 4:37 To me the dynamic range is fairly middle of the pack. Not high enough to be exceptional, not low enough to be a problem. Which considering the price and how many other features the camera has is reasonable enough.

[@nicolobiarese7996]

Is this the same sensor as the Fujifilm XH-2S?

[@Dezdirectz]

No

[@matthewjackson2656]

14 stops :(

[@liamdaniel8142]

Does kinfinity support fujifilm x mount ?

[@Dezdirectz]

No

[@adrianstanciu]

How does this compare to the Z cam options ?

[@Dezdirectz]

Yes

[@front_row_video]

I notived at 3:40, the shadows in the bushes are crushed, was there some gamma/midtone raising being done in grade or is it a straight Rec709 conversion?

[@carlyates2487]

I've checked the log footage and there is a lot of detail in those bushes. It's my grade that has lowered them past what shows up here on YT

[@front_row_video]

@@carlyates2487 appreciate the reply Carl, thanks. It looks good on the other shots and I wrote this comment before seeing the underexposure tests

[@carlyates2487]

@@front_row_videoIt’s just my grading! I have to make these videos quite quickly and I’m by no means a professional colourist… I was super impressed with the shadow performance, especially how well the Prores responds to noise reduction.

[@front_row_video]

@@carlyates2487 don't worry, it still looks great!

[@benjamindegroot1436]

I really wish Kinefinity would offer some way to get RAW out of their cameras. Without even the option for external RAW I find it very hard to justify the price point, even this current lower price point. The ZCam S6 offers 95% of what this camera offers at about a third of the price, while still having the option for RAW with an external recorder.

[@carlyates2487]

I agree, however don’t dismiss Prores 4444 the quality is fantastic and it can be pushed very far in the grade.

[@colinthomas2525]

I thought some of them do cDNG raw???

[@benjamindegroot1436]

@@colinthomas2525 They used to but then quickly pulled that feature when RED threatened a lawsuit. A tale as old as time...

[@ultimecraft]

On "any" pro set with a arri cam they shoot in prores 4444 XQ over arriRaw because raw workflow is hard to work with big crew that need to share project betwin colorist/SFX/VFX/editor/...

[@colinthomas2525]

@@benjamindegroot1436 the sigma fp shoots in cDNG. Keinfinity website still promots cDNG on some cameras.

[@vladimirtalijan]

This is the perfect example of why we don't need cheap boxy cameras. This is double the size and weight of a C70 and does nothing more, just complicates things for no reason. The difference in size, weight and the lack of everything under your fingertips slows you down considerably on the set, expecially if there's hiking involved. Not to mention if you need one slide or some gimbal move. It's ridiculous and people does it only because Hollywood does it, and I would argue that even Hollywood don't need that, they are wasting incredible amounts of money only because of unergonomic bulky cameras and bureaucracy type management.

[@robertruffo2134]

Meh, show up on set with this, and it breaks down, and people say "why did you get a weirdo cam brand" and it's your fault. If a Red or an Arri breaks down, people don't say it's your fault, they say you were unlucky. Also, give me RedRAW over Prores every day of the week. It's WAY more flexible in post and contains WAY more useful data, while actually being a smaller file. So... Pass.

[@8020Alive]

These are half to 1/3 the price. You can "show up" with double as many (purchased or rented) and double your coverage and redundancy.

[@lucastroadec4768]

great customer service over at ProAv 🙂

[@carlyates2487]

Always awesome to hear! Thats what we are here for 👍