Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 - Limits

[@mohamedab9033]

I....I didn't know Sora could fly during the Mulan's dragonblaze limit O_O ! 10 years....

[@ZeldaFan2004]

I use that flight to get the puzzle pieces early, like the one in the middle of the air in the Mountain Trail area for instance.

[@loganbigmo]

Me neither..just learned something new today.

[@Iceboltdoom]

and the camp with all the tents also spamming fire in master form makes you go horizontal without dropping a psuedo glide which i used to get puzzle pieces early

[@derpboyzero7669]

The flight is explained in the journal. I skimmed Jiminy's Journal, by 2nd run to try Critical, Limits have breakdowns and Mulan's said to give flight. So I wasted time for High Jump to get one or two piece, when Mulan could help me get it. Still a neat find.

[@jhonerycontreras9676]

I am speechless from that trinity glitch...

[@UltimaSpark50]

Actually, the Ultimania seems to indicate it's a deliberate effect (not a glitch - relevant page: kh13.com/forum/uploads/gallery/album_320/gallery_6_320_1401808749_60135.jpg, first column "Trinity Limit's gradual power increase"); also, the FM Ultimania specifically notes it [no longer taking effect] while mentioning changes to its limits.

[@harryunderwood9387]

I remember encountering a simply very long-lasting version of the Limit for the first time in the Underworld Coliseums, way back on the ps2. Truly thought I'd broken the game, and hadn't saved for a while so I was panicking (I forgot about being able to quit). Seeing that glitch wasn't too surprising, but I am glad they patched it out.

[@camharkness]

*looks at the cloud version*

[@anthonyleachman3541]

​@@camharkness🤔 trinity limited

[@AkiraSatou]

You deserve way more views and popularity purely based on the information you provide. Every video you make is very well informed and is really in depth, you can really tell time went into these. Keep up the good work Bizkit

[@Wizard_Lizard_]

Auron why!? You have the most badass limit. Why must it do so little damage in comparison to others!? THE BETRAYAL!!!

[@dmas7749]

Auron is pretty badass himself so it is a pretty big disappointment

[@KoopaXross]

This explains why I got so much drive off of attacking enemies with solo trinity during magnet in the underworld cup that one time.

[@SamthePlayer]

This, together with the recent "Beyond the X button" video make me reconsider KH 2 as the "lazy button masher" of the series. I was so disappointed in the game for all these years, but you guys seem to have so much more figured out.

[@nobgs4505]

SamthePlayer Yeah when you get into the tougher parts of the game or want to speed run it, you NEED to know what to use and when, ESPECIALLY Critical Mode. In stuff like that, button mashing won't get you ANYWHERE

[@johnpantag472]

A button masher? Kh1 is just mashing x. Even on proud mode.

[@panduvandal]

Every kh games are pretty much just a mashing x or triangle on normal run Ofc there's some exceptions to this

[@OobakaSenkoDama542]

i didnt know knocksmash was nerfed no wonder my eng playthrough felt off also that trinity limit vs xigbar in the japanese version was so broken but _so satisfying to watch_

[@mohamedab9033]

I subscribed to you since i saw your video on " What needs to be changed for KH3 " and how you really nailed it on the drop of gameplay quality from the glorious 2FM to the sub-par BBS and DDD. You deserve more credit for your analysis eye.

[@pluff401]

I rewatch these videos every few months simply bc they're so interesting and well structured, but also bc your narration is very soothing to me, well done 👏👏👏

[@pluff401]

I literally love these videos because you make all the info so interesting and enable, yet easy to understand

[@wouterW24]

So, Donald's limits are the best in the game, Trinity is situational, and Jack's and Riku's are pretty good as well? By the looks of it, most eh limits are actually average, there just happen to be a few very powerful outliers, especially with party members.

[@Bizkit047]

Pretty accurate summary of the video. Dolan's Limits are insane, Trinity is insane if used in certain situations, and Jack's & Riku's are limited by worlds you can use them in. All Limits as a whole are pretty decent at least though, funny enough Crit any% speedruns still use Mulan & Auron's Limit, even though the damage output isn't that great

[@TheLegendaryFUSRODAH]

The one when you launch goofy at the enemies is better for single target, and whirli-goof is better for groups. Make of that what you will.

[@milotic3333]

wouterW24 Donald Duck is god of god

[@phantom-X2086]

@@milotic3333 especially with fucking Zettaflare

[@hi-gc5lb]

@@TheLegendaryFUSRODAH I took out 1 armor xemnas bar with whirla goof

[@nesoukkefka1741]

Just one thing to add there is an exception for some cup of the colyseum Limit will not cost all your MP (this actually show how much OP Dolan's Limit would be if they weren't costing all your MP).

[@TheQueenOfRedLions]

I've been waiting for this. Your videos are always my favourite on explaining KH mechanics. Thanks for the hard work you put in!

[@Ragnamune]

Every time I watch one of these, I feel like I'm in a class being taught by you, Bizkit.

[@RY3NO]

17:20 Checkout Demyx headbanging!

[@Viviana088]

RY3NO guess trinity's finisher is actually some really hardcore rock!

[@Kopke_Your_Realtor]

RY3NO oh my gosh this was two years ago but I just watched it and laughed SO hard.

[@damotoneko1500]

Limits are pretty neat, especially when they include an epic cutscene.

[@gameaddict123456789]

you forgot to mention that Duck Flare lasts longer in English 2.5

[@block36079]

Mulan 2:35 Beast 3:30 Auron 4:24 Jack Sparrow 5:21 Aladdin 6:16 Jack Skellington 7:01 Simba 8:29 Tron 9:37 Riku 10:34 Knocksmash 11:38 Whirli Goof 12:46 Comet 13:33 Duck Flare 14:29 Trinity 15:16 Trinity (solo) 17:25

[@lowhp_comic]

Donald Duck: Great at Limits, Shit at healing

[@dmas7749]

He's good...when he actually does it. I don't really rely on them much lol

[@Xo-3130]

I set his ability usage to deal with that. Plus I tend to lead the enemies to me.

[@slobertooth1358]

Your sooooooo wrong

[@cwm8565]

He’s a black mage

[@animaIpath]

bruh, i legit became a kh fans at 7 years old. to this day, from what i remember; Donald has ALWAYS healed me the moment it starts beeping. seeing the “Donald doesn’t heal” comment over the years has confused me so much

[@cero1104]

Your tutorials are great as always, keep up the good work Biz

[@Groose_McLoose]

YOOOOOOOO I DIDNT KNOW YOU COULD USE TRINITY AGAINST SEPHIROTH WHEN HE IS DOING HIS HEARTLESS ANGEL BULLSHIT

[@rocklobster4942]

It's a very safe option just be sure to have ethers stocked if you are gonna do that lol

[@Gamesmarts194]

Also be ready to toss an Elixir/Ether since it uses all your MP.

[@dmas7749]

Hell yeah, Beast and Riku are awesome and so are their Limits.

[@1sam234]

Speaking of situational with Trinity Limit, I did notice at 17:10 that the supposedly "no damage" components of Break, Ultima and Major Drive(on top of the finisher) managed to slaughter Demyx's water clones pretty well while you were discussing it. And during that finisher, the timer actually stopped while you still killed more water clones. With stocked Ethers, could that be another decent/reliable way to beat that annoying part of his, even in his Data fight?

[@Bizkit047]

I never tested if the finisher stops time, cuz the strat involves having the finisher hit Demyx. It could be a possible strat with Ethers/Elixirs, but it certainly wouldn't be faster than Wisdom Form Firaga spam.

[@1sam234]

Yeah, I popped in English 2.5, and the timer DOES stop during Trinity Limit's finisher until the finisher ends, even if Demyx isn't hit by it. However after testing it myself, I did notice that when it came to actually killing the clones, it seemed kind of random if they died or not. Ultima was the most reliable in killing up to 15 in its timespan, Major Drive ranged from random to mostly nothing at least to me, and Break didn't seem to do anything either except for its final hit. The finisher itself seemed to consistently kill only 5 clones as well, not even touching newly spawned ones if they popped in during the finisher. From the sound of it though, Ultima-only Trinity Limit does seem viable as a staller if you're low on Drive for Wisdom once or twice, along with the bonus of actually stopping the clock and buying you some extra seconds at the end of the limit. Maybe it's different since you're using Japanese 2.5 in this video, but I dunno.

[@Bizkit047]

I would skip Break and also not do the Trinity finisher because Ultima and Major Drive clear the most clones per second overall, so trying to spam those would give you best results IIRC.

[@1sam234]

Bizkit047 Eh, that's true. But still, with tacking on an extra 5 clone kills with the timer frozen during it, I'd think of the finisher as a freebie, haha. Except for during speedruns, of course. XD

[@WhoseIdeawasthis]

for lingering will: I use whirl-goof for offense and comet for defence

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

Limits are way cooler and better that the attractions. They add to the combat instead of distracting you from it.

[@cyon1697]

kh3 had team attacks anyway

[@camharkness]

Fact: attractions weren't link attacks. Team attacks were the link attacks of kh3.

[@TheVenXIII]

Square-Enix should hire you to work on a KH game you know this game well lmaoo

[@vaitololisa2246]

A common requested video I finally decided to do. Here is a tutorial on how all the Limits in KH2FM work and how to use them well. Took a good amount of testing to do this, and I'm sure I'm missing some small things here and there, but this should be acceptable to teach everyone how the Limits work. So don't stress if some super situational use for a Limit was not put into the vid. I left out Summon Limits cuz they're in my Summon vid already, and Limit Form Limits don't follow normal Limit rules, so I left those out as well as to not confuse. I also didn't go too deep into the nerfs/buffs of 2FM Limits, except for Knocksmash, which was hit the hardest. Solo Trinity was also nerfed though. Thanks again to Sonicshadowsilver2 (kzbin.info...) for confirming some mechanics for me and allowing me to use his KH2-J Trinity clip. Mulan: 2:34 Beast: 3:30 Auron: 4:22 Jack Sparrow: 5:19 Aladdin: 6:08 Jack Skellington: 7:00 Simba: 8:28 Tron: 9:30 Riku: 10:31 Goofy Knocksmash: 11:31 Goofy Whirli Goof: 12:45 Donald Comet: 13:27 Donald Duck Flare: 14:27 Trinity Limit: 15:13

[@LightningNerd]

Dance Call was always my favorite. Not only does it look the best, but it was super useful.

[@key_of_destiny4712]

Also take note that Donald's limits (I prefer Comet) can be really helpful in Mushroom XIII No.8 fight. It wont increase the counter but the attacks from it will lock onto the mushroom allowing you to continue using the horizontal slash spam. tactic to get to the S rank value. I do it like this: remove all magic restoration abilities (you can keep MP rage if you wish) and make sure you have the berserk charge ability from fatal crest or by natural level up means. Activate cure to reduce magic to 0. This is where it's gets trick since the mushroom will sometimes slip away from you mid combo before the magic gauge finishes charging and you are able to use Comet to keep it in the air. I usually wait until the MP charge reaches the word drive. Once you pull the mushroom out, spam Horizontal Slash with berserk charge until the gauge refills (you will have at least 55-65 hits at this point). once the gauge fills, immediately go into comet to keep it in the air while hitting it with more horizontal slash. Make sure to space out the comet hit for when the mushroom is out of reach, but keep in mind the limit gauge. by the end of it all, if done right, you should have the 85+ hits required to satisfy the mushroom.

[@mentalgamingx6284]

ive watched this video 3 times now. as I do with all your informative ones. I need more of these. Id love a detailed world by world speedrun strat and guide.

[@raptorlewis273]

Yeah my virgin playthrough of KH 2.5 FM PS4 barely did any Limits, Drives or Summons honestly. If anything, I used Drives to learn those old maneuvers from 1 permanently once my friend told me about them. Limits and Summons just seemed to exist as something you COULD do but not something you need to. After all, most are situational and MP is precious. (Also, Drive forms never seemed worth it outside of those abilities I mentioned mainly due to Anti-Sora and Drive Gauges were a pain in the ass to refill.) Btw, informative vid as always.

[@45Thawk]

Wow, I was literally thinking about how cool it would be if biz made a limit video yesterday

[@leftymu]

Excellent info, Bizkit, I had no idea what was going on in limits or how to use them. I think a big reason for this is how they display the triangle button; it looks too much like a prompt that you have to act on, rather than something you can choose to use or not.

[@BeeBN]

Duck flare is the best limit by far

[@Wilford870]

I love the look Aladdin gives Sora during his limit X3

[@shiveringshark]

Honestly I always thought trinity limit was useless because I always just mashed triangle. Thanks for this!

[@xebatansis]

This is so informative. How could anyone dislike this video?

[@LeoTheOtt]

2:33 Damn that duck.

[@JDracovia129]

Sora can freely move during the last hit of Goofy's first limit so he can get more damage in. And it's really get against Larxene since you can hit both the clones.

[@starwaypathmaker6817]

hey square, your doing an amazing way of life right now, i love the way you all think, and um thanks!

[@minisquirtle9702]

am i the only one who uses thes limits regardless of damage? The animations are cute and they look so cool it hardly matters half the time. I will go out of my way to use these limits just to see them again

[@Kvo7he]

1. Duck Flare 2. Trinity/Comet (very good situational) 3. Dance call (good damage good stun) 4. Rikus limit (decent damage) 5. Simbas limit (only limit in that world) Rest are more less useless

[@haziq12ish]

your videos are really really good, thmbs up and keep up the good work

[@dc4296]

*shows awesome footage of Limit being used* "overall, this Limit's not very good..."

[@wwetitle818]

Whirl a Goof is actually really handy for the fight against Xemnas when Goofy is in your party. Everytime I use it I knock him down to around 3 health bars.

[@KokuroSame]

Really enjoying these tutorial videos Biz. I'm learning a lot more about KHIIFM+ that I never knew. Do you think you would be willing to do a video on revenge values/DM for organization boss fights? If not, still cool that you put these out! Thanks.

[@ridz377]

17:22 man he or she is truly rocking and rolling

[@Yurei2K]

Took me 10-14 years to realize Goofy does a thumbs up before the finisher in Trinity.

[@themegadude900]

I really like jacks limit, always used it when I had the opportunity.

[@xLithiumFlower1]

Which Jack?

[@themegadude900]

Jack skellington, my bad, forgot that jack sparrow had the same name.

[@DemiTrusdale3]

Knock smash, trinity and whirligoof used to be so powerful... i miss that, lol.

[@huntoper9551]

I think whirli goof is a pretty good limit

[@AndySunshine1291]

Wow. Subscribed!

[@13EqualsB]

Awesome video! Might as well do a video detailing drive forms and thier combat abilities. I would really like to see that kind of video

[@13EqualsB]

An example might be like final forms crime and punishment ability. a very strong ability that upgrades fire, thunder and blizzard like crazy. however it doesn't really explain it well in the game so I think it confuses players that want to learn how to use drive forms.

[@abijahgrant7840]

+tsunderek I think he already did one

[@Allyspill]

I'm really linking them kh2 videos. Can you possibly do one for the mushroom 13? Most of them aren't too bad but mushroom 8 is EVIL. lol

[@simbadg13]

nice vid very informative as always

[@Conmystro]

Is there a method to teleporting after activating solo trinity?

[@Akanalusa]

You can use Mulan's limit to fly! That's the funniest thing I've ever seen lol

[@TheChaosTrigger]

Welp, guess I don't have to bug you about this with my 19 alt accounts now :)

[@khmasterva6919]

Learning that Trinity Limit has damage meter when using the finisher so i've been dealing less damage on LV1 run on Demyx!?

[@KoopaXross]

I recently got back to KH2 FM. Got my ass handed on critical mode pain cup in the underworld, was 8 levels under recommendation though. Once I finally made it to the final boss again and Dolan decided not to die on me as I was activating his limit I invincibilitied the shit out of Leon and Yuffie. Felt satisfying after that cup gave me so much shit with enemies backing up their peers in the most unfair ways like having me do a successful aircombo then landing into an attack that kills.

[@SingaporeLoveItachi]

It will be great if you can make a video about Revenge Values in bosses - espcially in Data Boss fights, and also what affects RV in general. It will be great for casuals like me and a lot of people watching your vids :)

[@Bogeynator]

Have you done/thought about doing a CoR level 1 CM guide? I managed to get through the game that way but I can't get to the data org, and I feel like I'm not the only one getting stuck there.

[@JohnGaming55]

He did one a long long time ago.

[@BlackMushroom360]

What is a good way to practice strats in the 2.5 version? Killing myself/reloading a save maybe? I dont have as much time as I would like to, taking in account the atrocious load times, and my computer can't handle PCSX2 so original 2FM with savestates are out of question.

[@friskdreemurrboy1404]

I heard a lot of "Sora have free movement, but his attack's replaced, so it's not very useful"

[@keybladewar22]

What program are you using for those amazing annotation letters for your videos if you don't mind me asking ?

[@lupinedreamexpress]

This may be an old question but I'm curious. What set of codes do you use for 60 FPS? I've tried a few, but the ones I used only sped up animation speed and not animation time window,. Long animations would whip out reallly quickly and then Sora would be stuck in place until the timing caught up.

[@loganmcclure6439]

Hey, Biz, I was wondering if you could give me some tips on helping my reflexes with bosses. And also could you do a video covering Revenge Vaules and HP Barriers?? That'd be a great help. I just completed my first speedrun today, btw, KH3D with 3:52:16 (Beginner with Spirit Transfer). Do you know if that's good or not??

[@psnisy1234]

Great video, but you didn't talk about the trick of using limits when Sora's MP is low. That is an extremely helpful thing.

[@Bizkit047]

I specifically did, actually...

[@RengokuGS]

playlist for all your kh guides?

[@deviousflameartxiii8412]

can you explain the differences in limit forms dodge roll. im sure theres some hidden information we can exploit

[@brightcolorsarecool279]

Red Rocket is my favorite.

[@rumiyano]

how do you actually trigger the old Trinity glitch in the JP version? I believe I even had that glitch in the original English version but I'm not sure

[@veeshadow]

You simply make a high hit count from mass amount of enemies (on upleft screen). From the video, you see the max hit is 559. CMIIW, That hit basically will carry over to next limit even if you get straight into finisher...

[@syrielnightfall2418]

I'm kinda disappointed they nerfed Goofy's limits so bad. I liked back in KH2 English that Donald's limits were used with strategies for insane combo potential, invincibility, and timing with Donald's attacks while Goofy's limits didn't let you do any of those things but were amazing damage dealers. It felt like all the limits the main trio always had access to were useful in their own ways. Now that Goofy's limits are pretty much useless in damage and strategy, there's no point in using them. Oh well, I guess.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

I find it...really, really weird to state that Goofy's limits aren't very good. In my experience, even from FM's nerfing (that I clearly never noticed), Knocksmash is by far the most damaging Limit in the game on a single target. Even compared to Donald's Limits, Goofy's finisher alone kicks the living crap out of every other Limit. ...Not counting that Trinity JP glitch.

[@ShyRanger]

I can't remember if I posted this in a previous video but, could you please do an audio walkthrough (like this) on the Org. Mushrooms? I know you've done a really old text one, but with my vision it's kinda hard to read. Obviously it's your choice whether you make it or not, but if you are thinking of more of these types of videos to do, that's one suggestion.

[@DunklerZebralord]

One huge objection... Tron's limit is utterly broken imo

[@DarkFrozenDepths]

RIP Goofy's Limits.... both of them seem to have been nerfed... knocksmash used to one-shot bosses and his whirl one could one or two-shot them....

[@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll]

What? They buffed Whirli-Goof, it was garbage in the original.

[@xNightxxWingx]

playing kh2 now for the first time, and everytime i use mulans limit, the attack ends after about 2 seconds, regardless what buttons I press, when it's spam x, spam triangle, or rotate between the two, doesn't matter, it ends so fast before i even understand whats going on can anybody tell me what im doing wrong

[@starvoltnexus3139]

What?! I was shredding Hap bars with both Whirligoof and Wild cat

[@PistolPete2141]

Muraia The Sagely They were nerfed.

[@starvoltnexus3139]

They were?! Wow

[@MrProg-ey3tl]

I'd use Aladdin's limit just to see that animation of him

[@zmjsaqs]

Me when I played on Proud Mode: meh i dont need these Me on Crit Lv1: Holy fuck why wont the MP bar charge faster I wanna live

[@erobertt3]

That trinity glitch though

[@Order-Sol]

At the end their trying to perform the White Trinity.

[@VindexSolis]

That glitch omg

[@reissryhas]

W-wait. I just got done playing KH2, and I'm pretty sure that all limits always used all of the MP that you currently had. If there's a annotation to say the correct info, then I'm sorry, but I can't see anything because of mobile. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm positive that all limits in the original used all your mp.

[@Bizkit047]

...Do you mean KH1? Cuz no, KH1 doesn't use all your MP when you use a Limit.

[@reissryhas]

I mean Kingdom Hearts 2.

[@reissryhas]

After rewatching the beginning of the video, I realised my mistake. Somehow my brain thought you said that KH2 didn't use all of your MP. My bad. Thought KH1's Trinity Limit does use all your MP, along with the MP of your Party Members. I don't think you went over that. If you did, then again, Sorry. But hey! People can learn about that if they see this.

[@Bizkit047]

Trinity Limit in KH1 is a big exception to Limits, like Limit Form's Limits in KH2 so I didn't bother to mention it

[@reissryhas]

I suppose so, but it is still a limit, though in a class of its own...

[@redshepherd32]

0:05 lol, dance demyx dance XD

[@D-Havoc]

How does that trinity limit glitch work!? It took Xigbar's life!

[@drkirby-zc7gd]

Genie replaces aladin

[@Typicalamanda]

So do we need to do these types of limits to upgrade the limit form? everyone keeps saying yo upgrade it with Aladdin but I just beat lion king the first time so it's not Avaliable yet. I'm currently trying in timeless Disney? is that what it's called the black and white place.

[@Bizkit047]

Limits and Limit Form are two completely different things

[@SpicyAtreides]

Just curious, why do you use the Japanese version of the game?

[@liamdivine5361]

Did you do a vid for the Drives?

[@rogueports1]

why does using Jack's limit during the experiment fight crash the game? my guess is that you do too much damage that the game can't keep up with, but this is probably absolutely incorrect.

[@Bizkit047]

Nothing about Jack's Limit crashes that fight, I have a video explaining the Experiment Crash already

[@RaXZerGamingZ]

i dont think there are any bad limits

[@jasontachin]

rw: cool info dude.

[@tonigutierrez1155]

I thought that tron's limit was really good because it stunlocked zark.

[@unclebill3995]

i was wondering if you would ever do this

[@animegirl17]

I got a question for ANYONE who can answer: I have completed ALL the limits (including Genie's 4 forms, summons, and donald and goofy's limits) WHY CAN'T I UNLOCK THE LIMIT MASTER TROPHY!?!?

[@Bizkit047]

You have to use them AND do hits with them, it's easy to forget some too

[@animegirl17]

lmao, so it's funny that some of my favorite characters (like Jack Skellington and Jack Sparrow) have the same name. I've been going crazy for days trying to figure out what I was missing and didn't catch it until I saw you going over Jack Sparrow's limit...I should be ashamed...

[@BrenoRanyere]

how does the trinity limit against demyx strat work?

[@Bizkit047]

As said in the video, Trinity is based on the amount of hits done during the combo parts, so as stated, using it on fights with multiple enemies around gives you way more hits and damage

[@BrenoRanyere]

no, i mean, when you use it in speed runs you have a specific strat, what do you to get the best result in this demix boss fight?

[@Bizkit047]

Use Major Drive & Break to multi hit clones, and end the Trinity with 5 or less clones so Demyx takes the full damage

[@BrenoRanyere]

nice, thanks man!

[@Sonicshadowsilver2]

Actually you use Major Drive and Ultima, which Ultima should auto-kill 15 clones if I remember correctly.

[@Lazar_STS]

Imagine full trinity limit vs 1k heartless

[@ruvinwolf]

I challenge you to run a playthrough using only reflect. You can only attack while you don't have reflect. Once you obtain Reflect, you can no longer attack unless you have no MP and you have no items left. Critical Mode, level does not matter. Growth abilities, combo boost/plus and misc abilities are allowed.

[@Bizkit047]

That doesn't sound like much of a challenge but instead is a really slow and boring way to do all the fights...

[@ruvinwolf]

Yay, I got noticed :3

[@loganmcclure6439]

Combo boost wouldn't actually affect much after TR because it only works with ground attacking combos. Besides, the only forms you can level up using only Reflect are Wisdom, and maybe Final if you're careful with your MP

[@keith3278]

Say Bizkit have you ever done a low level Proud speedrun For KH2 ?

[@Bizkit047]

Yea, it's slow and boring compared to Crit runs

[@mangomariel]

Donalds limit is sooooo much cooler in kh2, then that stupid flare and meteor shit we got in kh3..