KingdomCraft: Why we shouldn't talk about "going to heaven"

[@JordanTowner-e]

This is a subject not a lot of people like to talk about. Whether Catholic, Orthodox, Reformed, Evangelical, or whatever, the majority of Christians kind of stop their line of thinking at "...and then I die and go to heaven to forever be with Jesus." I'm glad you bring it up!

[@calebneff5777]

I love this take, definitely not understood by enough people. FWIW though I don’t know of many songs of the last 25 years that express wanting to go away to heaven or being taken away besides “I Can Only Imagine”. Every worship song I know gets this right such as “Build Your Kingdom Here”, “History Maker”, “Get Your Hopes Up”, “Death was Arrested”, and so on. The sentiment of going to Heaven was more of a thing in pre-contemporary Christian music. Gospel music, for its great music, often has bad theology. Worship music, for its crappy music, often has decent theology.

[@calebneff5777]

For instance John Mark McMillan’s whole discography revolves around Heaven coming here, not us going there. He famously wrote the controversial line “Heaven meets Earth like a sloppy wet kiss”. His song Juggernaut is also about how the Kingdom WILL come here, weather a fallen world wants it or not. It WILL be restored, same with his song “Hammering Heart”.

[@tamassky]

Love that Minecraft analogy of new heaven and new earth! 😉 God bless!

[@tyreview]

To be fair I don’t think God destroyed the world during the Great Flood with Noah. Once it was all over it was the same “world” but different.

[@louannebvb]

I used to be evangelical / non denominational, joined a Methodist Church as of recently. I realise I was very influenced by Gnosticism and so are a lot of instagram Christians (because of course, instagram was where I got my theology from😂). A lot of people talk about "Worldly things" as a bad thing and I'm really trying to stop saying that or thinking that because it sounds a lot like Gnosticism / Buddhism Edit: probably converting to Catholicism soon

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

don't

[@universome511]

We all love Minecraft - Redeemed Zoomer 2022

[@sethplace]

I really enjoy your videos

[@justinien1er389]

Following the minecraft world analogy, do you think the New Earth will have the same (but improved) geography as our own with the same continents and places?

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

quite possibly. Or maybe somehow much bigger yet still with all the same "stuff"

[@nameirrelevant0]

Heaven is why Jesus came to Earth. Whether we spend eternity in Heaven or Hell, the time we spent here will look negligible by comparison. It's all about what comes next. The worst part about Hell isn't just the fire, but it's that the fire goes on *forever.* No sleep. No relief. No hope. The only rational response is to use this life to prepare for the next one, because there's no escaping that transition.

[@PauloftherdMichiganinfantry]

Wait I get to see my uncle again I forgot about that yay I will see him again

[@stephenfiore9960]

1x(10/19/23)…..0…….Great points, the older I get, and the more I study the Bible the more I don’t like the term “Going to Heaven “..done thank you excellent

[@MonkeyGo911]

This one has the longest outro making it the closest thing to getting a ful video of your outro theme so make one

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

I definitely am a post-millennialist. Christian morality is in the laws and presuppositions of the U.N and yes, every country, yes every, even Afghanistan (example many Afghans want freedoms of speech a Christian virtue, though I guess that's more people than legal institutions) every country has been influenced by Christianity's presuppositions and virtues and moral standards. The world is held together by the most advanced sciences and technology, Research the history of inventions and medical development and a Christian is never far behind. And to be the utmost frank. There's 2 billion Christians today. There was like 12.000 Christians the year Jesus was resurrected and that's a symbolic demonstrative number for twelve tribes, I obviously don't know how many Christians there were. You may counter by this rhetoric, "Islam is fastest growing religion!" That's true do to immigration and birthrate and Tiktok trends, many who trend Islam online are cultural Christians who's descendants won't be Muslim, The Muslims birthrate delivers Islam not conversion, Literally I meet closet ex-muslims all the time and public ex-muslims in medias and they usually know a ex Muslim a number of whom are Christian. So yes Christianity is the fastest growing religion. The official stats are 2 billion but I think there's a secret extra hundreds of millions of pretend hidden believers who pretend to not be Christian but Hindu, atheist, Jewish or Muslim to avoid persecution. Go underground and there looks like a hidden Christian community. By the year 3000 do to the OBJECTIVE truth of Christianity and the rise of the Internet, If there's 30 billion humans in 3000 AD 20 billion of them upwards to 25 billion will be Christian. As means of communication increases, tv, phones, cameras, objectively Christianity has enough online media resources that a non Christian could read Christian history, confessions or Bible online or find a video and convert. Conversion to Christianity is semi automated. Again. 12.000 Christians in 33 AD. 2 billion official Christians today. And I'm confident that there's a secret unofficial 500 million underground Christians added to that. We are the truth. Also rapture hinders the spread of the gospel. Because literally organizations exist to build shelters and food banks for fear cults led by rich pastors to live in post apocalyptic vaults. Rather than use that same resources to aid persecuted Christians or spread the gospel. The book of revelation I'm not sure if it is biblical. If it is be a preterist and assume it's 99% fulfilled in Roman times except the final coming. All wars, plagues, etc. I usually am a preterist in that Islam and Muhammad and their evils fulfill revelation. If however it's a future apocalypse in a unchristian world and it's literal not metaphors and that actual demon armies invade earth, than I'm basically Martin Luther on the book of revelation. If earth literally blows up, aliens exist, and humans colonize a planet in a galaxy far far away. Christianity is still the one true religion.

[@Povproductionstudios]

Be careful, minecraft has stuff like enchantment which is witchcraft!

[@JordanTowner-e]

I don't agree that Christians should be "making the world a better place." There really is no Biblical basis at all for this. Our only instructions relating to interactions with the world are to help people and to save souls (James 1:27) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Matthew 28:16-20). Furthermore, even though Jesus talks constantly of the kingdom of heaven in the Gospels, we are neither instructed to establish nor usher in the kingdom of Jesus either. We are commanded to seek it (Matthew 6:33), and we are told of its nature, future tense mind you (Luke 6:20) (John 3:3) (1 Corinthians 6:10) etc. In fact, Jesus even specifically denies that His kingdom is on Earth in his exchange with Pilate (John 18:36). Finally we are clearly told exactly when the kingdom of God comes to Earth: at His second coming. "The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.'" (Revelation 11:15 NIV) I don't really see a way of interpreting this text any other way. Post-millennialism and a-millennialism both rely on Christ's kingdom on Earth before Christ actually returns. This Christian conquest mentality isn't a new concept either. Yes you could link it to Catholic expansions in the Middle Ages, but even during Jesus' time this was a prevailing belief. The Jewish people wanted to make Jesus King of Israel in the hopes that he the Messiah would kick out Rome and establish His kingdom (John 6:14-15). This is he was so joyously received on Palm Sunday and why his own disciples were so perplexed when he spoke of dying (and for other obvious reasons). Everyone expected him to be a mighty king who would conquer the world for Israel. Yet as they would eventually realize, and as the Catholics realized, and as I believe the church must realize once again, God's kingdom will not come to Earth until His second coming. I also disagree with the idea that God will make a sort of cosmic repair on the current world. Every Scripture I can think of says quite the opposite. It seems like God is starting from scratch with language like "for the first heaven and first earth had passed away"(Revelation 21:1 & 5) So yeah, I do believe that God is going to effectively nuke the earth and the most important thing until then is to save souls. So its not so much shuffling chairs on the Titanic as much as it's telling people about Jesus' luxury cruise liner coming to rescue us.

[@josephbruce5177]

You say you don’t agree with Christian’s making the world a better place but then say we’re to help people by helping save souls which in turns makes the world a better place. Salvation hinges on hearing the word which is the mission of the church. God shows at the beginning of creation that everything needs order and has a process including our salvation. Maybe I am misreading what you posted but the way it sounds makes the whole idea of sanctification a bit silly. It’s the process of making believers righteous which in turns helps sanctifies their household and coworkers and everyone that is involved in their life bc our life is used as a witness to unbelievers which should hopefully bleed over into their life as well therefore the inevitable conclusion is the world being made better by the sanctification of the Body of Christ which is the believing Christians accomplishing the great commission.

[@JordanTowner-e]

@@josephbruce5177 Sorry for any confusion, my comments are mostly just messy thought explosions! But to clarify, I was getting at the point that making the world a better place is not a Christian goal. As you said it can be the byproduct of saving souls (which is the primary mission of the church), but it's not something we should be actively working towards. So the idea that things like justice, art, music, innovation, etc. should be a priority of Christians (7:33 in the video) is not Biblical. Nor is the idea that any of these things will last forever (Matthew 6:19) (Colossians 3:2) (the entire book of Ecclesiastes lol). Furthermore, while salvation certainly changes the lives of individuals as you described, I don't believe it's Biblical that it or anything else Christians can do can make the world a better place on a large scale. This point is really centered on eschatology so I understand that I'm just arguing pre-millennialism but... Like I said before, post/amillennialism posit that the church should be conquering the world, making it a better place(directly or indirectly) and overall bettering the world before Christ's return. Yet the Bible often states that the opposite will happen. Matthew 24 says there will be absolute wickedness as the days of Noah, war, earthquakes, famine, persecution of Christians, false prophets, false Messiahs, stars falling, the sun and moon darkening, love of many growing cold, etc. which is nothing even close the semi-utopian Christian kingdom that post/amillennialists want to achieve. Not to mention the chapters and chapters of apocalyptic wrath being poured out on the earth in Revelation. Matthew 7:13-14 says "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." So while God does want everyone to repent (2 Peter 3:9) he is clear that only few will be saved. With only a small portion of the world being saved, and a majority being on the road of destruction, the world will not be made a better place. Again I'm with you on the idea that salvation is externally beneficial on the individual level, but since only few will become saved, this will not translate nationally or globally.

[@danimalion97]

Jordan, I'm so happy to be reading your comment!!! Something interesting is definitely happening right now in the spiritual world. A very few are starting to realize the gospel for what it truly is. It's so simple but I find no one talking about it. The full and true gospel that Christ preached, that is the gospel of his kingdom which is not of this earth. It's not the gospel about Christ, or God's love, or your personal relations with God or even the crucifixion that redeems us... those are only parts of it. The gospel is only the gospel that Christ preached and that is of the kingdom. Being Christs disciple you are a disciple of his teachings and his teachings are of the kingdom. "Repent FOR the kingdom is near!" emphasis not on repenting! repenting is only a very minor easy prerequisite needed and everything being about the kingdom being near! Seek it and everything else... well everything is everything else haha. The kingdom is not of this earth. This earth is ruled by the evil one and will burn and absolutely nothing on this earth matters in relation. Nothing earthly, human, fleshly, materialistic matters compares to the insane eternity prepared for us. Not marriage, not politics, not anything. The jews had to leave egypt behind (this world) and on the way to the promised land God shows himself like never before but even then its no guarantee they make it there. Ahh Im just blabbering now haha.

[@therefinedapple9210]

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