KJV Debate Review & Why This Subject Matters to Me

[@PureWordsBaptistChurch]

It was a great debate and I agree that finding out about the “false friends” actually helps people as Bible students

[@wesleyoverton1145]

20:30 literature in all languages often is challenging to read, because therein often lies the beauty, poecity, and craft of writing itself. In classical athens and further on in antiquity, people commented on how authors like Thucidydes and Plato were challenging. And in modern Russian literature, Golden age authors like Pushkin, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, etc are challenging to understand for natives as well. Building upon that, the KJV is simply reflecting how the Bible in certain places is written with such syntax in the original. Books like Hebrews and 2 Corinthians feel more weighty in their English syntax because that is an accurate reflection of the underlying text. I am glad that God allowed parts of his word to contain more challenging syntax and subject matter, otherwise it would be less interesting and impressive as literature.

[@flyingcrocs8144]

Its not really a kjv issue as much as a manuscript issue. I think the conversation and arguments should be why the Textus Receptus should only be used for translations.

[@kingfisher5200]

This

[@antillious]

Here’s the thing though. KJB people still don’t want an English update using the TR. there are several and all are called “perversions” by this crowd.

[@preachtheword1689]

I think your KZbin channel should not only focus on eschatology but topics such as this (bibliology), soteriology, the ifb etc. Since you said that doctrines like this matters to you. just my suggestion. God bless

[@captainnolan5062]

Here is a thought experiment for you: If there were no English translations of the bible into English today, would you advocate that the first translation in 2024 should be translated into Elizabethan English and the translators should use obsolete and archaic language rather than modern English?

[@ronniewright6639]

@captainnolan5062 ..... good point.

[@captainnolan5062]

@@ronniewright6639 Thanks Ronnie!

[@harrison4ever125]

That bozo calling you a terrible exegete kills me. That man jumps through flaming hoops to come to his conclusions.

[@anythingafter10]

According to Mark Ward's website, he attends Emmanuel Baptist Church of Mount Vernon, WA. This is what that church thinks the gospel is (from the gospel section of their website): "What shall you do with this information? Repent and believe in Christ for salvation. Repent (turn from) of all that dishonors God. It is more than just being sorry for what you have done. There are examples of individuals in the Bible that 'repented' because they were afraid of what was to come (Matt. 3:5-10). That is a false repentance and not what God desires. That type of repentance leads one to an eternal hell. What type of repentance does God desire? What shall you do? You must turn from your sin and turn to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You must submit everything about who you are (will, desires, hope) to Christ. You must remove yourself from the throne and surrender that place to Christ. Recognize that you have broken God’s law and respond in obedience to God in every area of your life. Call on His grace to help you through this new life of submission (Isa. 55:6-7)."

[@AuchtungderRiese]

I always suspect someone is believing in a perverted Gospel when someone, like Mark Ward, makes a living off of talking about Scripture yet, I can't find any statements about salvation. I can find his CV and purchase his books on his website but I can't find anything about the foundation of his faith. You go to the only source you can find, the statements the church he attends and shocker, not saved. I think the fact he's so determined to change the KJV Bible and endorses other versions is more proof he's not saved.

[@JosephAquino1430]

@@AuchtungderRiesewell said!

[@foryourhealth4481]

Amen!

[@captainnolan5062]

But would you want the electrical book to be written in Elizabethan English? That is absurd; you would want them to use modern English.

[@boogdoc8909]

"I don't see calvinism in my KJV" - but the Calvinist translators did, and didn't change their theology on it.

[@captainnolan5062]

Where in the Bible does God say that the bible should be translated into an archaic language and that we shouldn't make it intelligible to people? I think it says just the opposite. When it was first written, it was written in the common language of the people. There is no reason to make reading the Bible more difficult than it needs to be.

[@KenyonBowers]

That's my head at 0:44!

[@captainnolan5062]

You can't just "look 'em up" (the archaic words), unless you have an Oxford English Dictionary, because you need to know what they meant in 1611 when the translation was made.

[@jamessheffield4173]

Most of us gain insights every time we read the Bible, does Mark Ward believe he fully understand the Bible fully after reading the niv once?

[@MammaMo09]

Living rent free must feel so good, Pastor McMurtry.

[@MandaKoehn]

Did Jesus inspire that one?

[@captainnolan5062]

So your solution to the diminishing number of Americans who are religious is to force them to use a bible that is 400 years old and uses archaic and obsolete Shakespearian English words? That is self defeating behavior. It is likely that so many people have fallen away from the church precisely because they don't understand the KJV to begin with. It makes 'religion' seem archaic and obsolete, like the language in the KJV bible.

[@KJV_bibleteaching]

Great video. The KJV is the utmost emergency for people to keep using it as the one true source. I'm opposite of Mark Wards listeners and most everyone here. I grew up exclusively NIV and NASB during childhood.. Then NLT through high school and college. Then some ESV. For 34 yrs I used all the new popular, mainstream versions. I recoiled at the KJV as old fuddy-duddy arcahic reading . It was later in life, like almost 40, when I switched OVER to KJV only. I repented from 34 yrs of using the versions I grew up with. Why? Because I actually researched it. Months worth of researching. I wrote an 18 page paper on it. It all started with Deut 33:6 in the ESV. Then i suddenly, by happened chance, read a KJV remdering of it. One said A. The other said B. Uh oh....they BOTH cant be true at the same time. One was true. The other one had to be a false verse. Then...i uncovered a massive amount of information on the modern translations.. Months and months later....threw out permanently the modern versions. Picked up the dusty, ol KJV...then started to relearn everything that was hidden from my eyes from the other bible versions.

[@abaddontheannihilator8144]

Have a discussion with Pastor John Ricci about The Church and Israel please! 😬

[@1611KJV]

I know right. Brother is on part 15 in God isn't done with Israel. Blows my mind.

[@TheSpiritofProphecy1611]

I'm afraid if I get on his bad side that I will have a serious "accident".

[@abaddontheannihilator8144]

@@TheSpiritofProphecy1611 Yeah, he might send Norman Diamante to pay you a "special visit'. Lol

[@abaddontheannihilator8144]

@@1611KJV Yeah for real...smh. But he does have a lot of great sermons and a lot of great biblical series. I especially enjoyed his series of sermons called: "HANDLING THE TEST OF BEING ALONE - LONELINESS IS A PATHWAY TO GOD" AND "THE DOCTRINE OF PRAYER" I highly recommend listening through both of these different sermon series from him. Especially, handling the test of being alone because that one can really help you when you're without a job or without any people in your life.

[@abaddontheannihilator8144]

@@TheSpiritofProphecy1611 speaking of which, have you ever thought about doing more preaching on a particular subject for a season? Like instead of just preaching on a subject and then preaching a different subject the next evening or week, why not preach on a subject for an entire month or season for that matter? I ask because it just seems to be more edifying to spend a few weeks on an important Bible subject. I know you've done just a few in the past that had maybe three or four parts but it seems like you've stopped doing that for a couple years.

[@captainnolan5062]

A reader has a much better chance of understanding the Bible when it is written in their current language than if they are reading a 400 year old translation with archaic words, obsolete words and false friends throughout the Bible. You admitted that you have recently come to understand some false friends that embarrassed you. How long have you been reading them wrong? 40+ years?

[@captainnolan5062]

Mark Ward clearly "won" the debate. Interesting that you call him "the opposition". I would think that Lucifer would be your opposition, not another brother in Christ.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

I would be willing to either be on your show or you be on my show for an hour and discuss an obvious error in the King James Bible and it's one that all King James only who I have spoken with have all agreed it's an error

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

Also a Cult started this King James only nonsense. I do not like the Seventh Day Adventist and I just don't see how anyone can follow their nonsense

[@TheSpiritofProphecy1611]

I've heard people give weird explanations for why there is this one error in an obscure verse in the KJV. Even if I were convinced that there was one error that wouldn't justify making a new bible that will likely have hundreds of errors or even thousands like many of the modern versions.

[@Psalm19-1]

@@TheSpiritofProphecy1611 I’m still very much a TR guy, but how is this not an error in the KJV: Galatians 2:21 KJV “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Is Christ dead (present tense), or did He die (past tense)? I think you’d agree this is not a minor issue. (The Textus Receptus renders the tense of this adjective correctly in the Greek.)

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

@TheSpiritofProphecy1611 in Daniel 8:14, it says "2300 dayes". I think this is a blatant altering of God's word. It changes the number of days in the prophecy by doubling the amount. The translators of the king james bible admit this. In the 1611kjv, in the side footnotes, it says: HEB. Erev Boqer So the translators admit they changed the original text instead of just translating it. Erev boqer means "evening morning". It is also in the SINGULAR. The plural would be erevim boqerim. This is a very important detail, because without knowing this detail, someone might think it is 2300 days. If you are not Jewish or don't focus on the old testament, you may not notice in numbers 28 and exodus 29, that there is a daily/continual sacrifice done evening morning. Therefore, evening morning is a reference to when the sacrifice is done, 2300 is the number of times it will be interrupted. Therefore 1150 days. This matches the historical record of Josephis and Maccabees that records Antiochus interrupting the sacrifice for a little over 3 years. Therefore, we can see God's word was fulfilled and that it is not a failed prophecy. Also, to confirm this, Daniel 8:26 says "and the vision of THE EVENING and THE MORNING which you saw was TRUE." We see evening morning in THE definite article. So it can only be talking about a singular event that transpired over just ONE EVENING and ONE MORNING. (This is how it is in Hebrew and how the 1611kjv renders it). Or, it is referencing an EVENT that happens evening morning. Since we see 2300, we know it has to be talking about an event that happens 2300 times during evening or morning. Also, by taking out evening morning and substituting it for DAYES, suddenly we do not see a vision of the evening morning. The King James took it out by presumptuously removing words and substituting text needlessly.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

@@TheSpiritofProphecy1611 one more point, most people are just following what a 7th day Adventist started. "our authorized bible vindicated" by Benjamin G. Wilkinson This led to Otis Fuller writing "Which Bible?" And he basically popularized Benjamin Wilkinson's ideas. But Fuller did not mention the detail of Wilkinson being a 7th day Adventist. And Wilkinson waited until Benjamin Wilkinson was dead to publish his work. From there, all the other kjv onlyists spring forth

[@ellisonhamilton3322]

Awesome episode. I had to listen via the phone in my top pocket as I was high up on a ladder painting. I even manged a few comments in the chat.😂 That's pretty talented for an old guy. I'm lifelong KJV and I'll never depart from it. I trust King James' translators. I do not trust later translations for one simple fact. They all, IMO, are translations which attempt to force God's Word into man-made theologies......instead of drawing one's theology from God's council. That's it. KJV till the end.

[@captainnolan5062]

The translation was "right" in 1611; it is not "right" now due to language change over the last 400 years. You should not have to translate your English Bible into English before you can understand it.

[@e.r.m8986]

This debate is so ridiculous and will never be resolved. What bible do i use if i speak another language?

[@rossmoodie8489]

Great question!

[@christianmichael8]

You can’t censor the truth for much longer

[@coocool67]

Not only is the KJV perfectly readable, but also perfectly translated from the true OT and NT texts

[@EthanAndLacieBeetz]

If your a fundamentalist then you can’t just pick and choose what is literal in the Bible and that globe behind you contradicts the genesis description of creation.. firmament means solid dome and in Joshua says the sun stopped moving

[@EthanAndLacieBeetz]

We gotta filter science through the Bible, not the other way around

[@jeffdollar1646]

The KJV debate is strictly a an issue of informed opinion, not Scripture. Obviously you are not told what English translation to use in the Bible.

[@TheSpiritofProphecy1611]

Reading the KJV every day will keep Calvinism away.

[@jeffdollar1646]

@@TheSpiritofProphecy1611 ha ha Tommy.

[@ProjectCould]

@@jeffdollar1646I’m happy to believe in the verbal inspiration of the KJV and at the same time recognize that Romans 9 in the KJV clearly refutes the typical IFB take on the doctrine of election. And I’m also happy to agree with John Calvin that in John 3:16, the world is all humanity, not just the elect of humanity :-) This is also the express lane to not fitting into any of the established conservative groups (IFB fundamentalism and Calvinism :-) Welcome to premillennial isle of Patmos lol

[@captainnolan5062]

You are confusing the understanding of culture and the understanding or words that have changed. This is a disingenuous argument. Learning about the old customs has nothing to do with using the archaic and obsolete and confusing language of the KJV. You can learn all of these things while using a modern translation.

[@buckeyebaptist1976]

Brother Mark Ward? He's not a brother.

[@MandaKoehn]

Psalm 12 addresses the fact of people speaking vanity one to another. Their words no longer mean what they are supposed to mean. Each generation does this and continues to disconnect us from our past. "Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?" - Psalm 12:4 KJV Ward's agenda reminds me of the Riplinger and Ruckman crowd that want us to stay away from Greek, Hebrew, Latin, etc. Why? I love language and old literature and learning how to understand those from the past. To me, it's always red flag when an intelligent person is trying to disconnect another from the past. "My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:" - Proverbs 24:21 KJV

[@captainnolan5062]

The word of God was written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, not in English. So the word of God has not changed (it is still written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek). Why don't you just get a Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek dictionary and do the hard work to understand the words of God in the original languages? Lazy?

[@M.W-t8i]

If you comment can you do it just once, maybe twice, please

[@danswallers6961]

How many times has blacks law dictionary been revised? As you know words have meaning. They update blacks I’m told to change meaning if words

[@JasonJack]

Stick to Bibles produced during the millennial reign (KJV, Geneva, Matthews, etc.). Avoid the perversions of the little season (NIV, ESV, NLT, etc.).

[@JasonJack]

@@DMTFLTV , If I told you the second coming of Jesus Christ and His millennial reign have already occurred and that we're now in Satan's little season, would you consider this viewpoint or just tell me I'm crazy without looking into the possibility?

[@Revelation20.7-10]

@@JasonJackcome on Jason they would tell you you’re crazy!

[@TheSpiritofProphecy1611]

I've already looked into the possibility so I can't be accused of saying you are crazy without looking into it first, but I will say after looking into it that I think it is a crazy idea.

[@JasonJack]

@@TheSpiritofProphecy1611 , Thanks for at least considering this eschatological viewpoint. Time will tell...

[@KJV_bibleteaching]

​@JasonJack What the... 2 Thess says not to believe what you're saying. I absolutely love your teaching on 1 John though. After 5 yrs of searching, I finally found another person who teaches 1 John correct...you! But your 2nd coming already occuring.....Paul teaches aganist people teaching that There are 2 things that have to happen first. Those 2 things are almost here however Jerusalem has to be trodden down of the gentiles first. The man of sin revealed. Then "they" set the abomination up in the holy place, where it ought not stand. Then a great falling away to the image by everyone. Then great tribulation of us, those written in the book of life (Dan 12). Then the end will come. Revelation is pretty straight forward.

[@TboneWTF]

lol

[@billjohnson1111]

Isn’t Mark Ward big-time repent of your sins?

[@jarrettalyssaneville1122]

Oh no, God forbid we repent of our sins

[@MandaKoehn]

@@jarrettalyssaneville1122 Right? Paul's sermon on Mars' Hill was about repentance of one major sin of those in Athens, IDOLATRY. "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter." - Acts 17:29-32 KJV

[@MandaKoehn]

Well, Mark Ward is right on that one. Jesus came to save us from our SINS, not from only the hell consequence of sin. If the gospel you preach is only salvation from hell, it's not Biblical. If you stick to Hyles' gospel then your spiritual fruit will be wife beaters and David Hyles. The true Gospel bears GOOD fruit, not scoundrels. I wonder why Hyles and those who own to his gospel think they are going to escape the wrath of God with their lack of repentance as it's the unrepentant that experience the wrath of God spoken of in Revelation (Rev 9:20-21, 16:10-11). Man-worship in the IFB culture stems from the Hyles crowd, and they even have an idol made to the man. Coincidence? Nope. And I highly recommend all those who look to Hyles as a great man to examine his book "Let's Study the Revelation" and how Hyles stuck to the other versions' changing of Revelation 22:14, "wash their robes", rather than "DO His commandments": KJV Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. NLT Blessed are those who wash their robes. They will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life. NIV “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. ESV Blessed are those who wash their robes,[fn] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

[@jarrettalyssaneville1122]

KJVO is a silly position, that is my irrefutable argument

[@TboneWTF]

No matter what version you read every bible endorses slayvery. (Exd 21 for example, but there are several more). The bible is also demeaning to women stating that they are inferior to men and something about menstruating being "unclean". My point is the bible is hypocritical and contradicting . It has no place in modern society. Good luck.

[@KJV_bibleteaching]

Are you sure you understand slavery from 4,000 yrs ago? Make sure you aren't putting a 21st definition to something 5,000 yrs ago. The image you have of slavery in your mind this moment, doesn't fit to what actually occurred.

[@TboneWTF]

​@@KJV_bibleteaching "Are you sure you understand slavery from 4,000 yrs ago? " Hmmm? Let me think about that. Let's see Exd 21 states that masters can beet their slayves and mark their earlobes. It also states that masters can bequeath their slayves to their children. Yep that sounds like slayvery to me. Am I missing something ? Does what it says in the bible NOT sound like modern slayvery to you? Good luck.

[@TheMastersHarvest]

Here is the United States in prophecy: We can know "when" we are on God's prophetic calendar. It is written in the book of 2nd Esdras. Chapter 11 contains a prophecy that describes a line of American presidents, five of whom are still alive, and two of them are being kept until "the end." All of them are old men. "The end" is fast approaching. Ezra wrote Second Esdras, chapters 11, 12, and 13 many centuries ago, long before the United States existed, yet he accurately describes a line of 15 US presidents starting with Hoover. This 100-year-long prophecy began fulfilling on March 4, 1929. It is now 95% complete. Its perfect fulfillment to this point has established its credibility. Ezra was not guessing. I have condensed the prophecy into a series of short lessons - my gift to you. Please allow me to guide you through them, step by step, and into understanding. Blessings to you and your loved ones.