Know Your Mods Ep19: Wagner-Tuning Intercoolers

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Today on Know Your Mods, Ron Hay discusses the why and how Wagner Tuning elevates the bar in intercooler design and functionality. Where as many other parts manufactures have to split their resources and development costs between a wide range of products (intakes, suspension, exhausts, etc), Wagner-Tuning does one thing and one thing only. Intercoolers. This engineering driven focus keeps them on the forefront of quality and function that other manufactures simply cant complete with. Wagner is a true engineering company and parts developer. This means they make everything in house, from their own internal models and testing, and verify all their results with hard data. Nothing is outsourced, ever, which is why we at Modbargains always highly recommend their products with their premium performance and unbeatable quality. For more BTS style video, check out Ron Hays tour of their Germany based headquarters for a full deep dive on what sets them heads and shoulders above the rest.
Wagner-Tuning BTS Tour: • Wagner Tuning R&D/Prod...
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[@jaywillsey6797]

Just bought a Wagner intercooler for my MK6 GTI. Can't wait to get it installed and feel the performance! Thank you for the video!

[@alanwei4660]

Awesome! Glad to hear that you went ahead with upgrading to the Wagner FMIC. Please do report back and let us all know how you like it!

[@dumbeezy5480]

update?

[@BVonBuescher]

Just bought the Evo 1 from Extreme Power House, I almost bought the 7” from VRSF, but the Wagner was on sale, so I changed my mind. After watching this video I’m happy I did!! 🙌🏼

[@ronhay6511]

Glad we were able to help educate! :) you got an extremely well engineered intercooler (feel free to check out the factory tour if you have the time kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4DNlH-XpqyWjZY)

[@CaptainChemtrails]

Great Video Ron!

[@ronhay6511]

Thanks Shane :)

[@edwardmagri4590]

My wagner FMIC just arrived for my TT RS! Cant wait to get it installed!!

[@ronhay6511]

Congrats Edward and great choice, enjoy!

[@censorshipBS]

I wouldn't worry about it being 4kgs lighter than stock as most Americans are 30kgs over weight

[@sagegary993]

instablaster

[@brianchuck9264]

Haha

[@marrowdreign]

😂 facts.

[@tractioncontroldelete]

Incredible video 🤟

[@talkingmods]

Appreciate that ! - Ron from ModBargains

[@TimChump]

Nice been researching intercoolers to upgrade on my M2 , was coming to the conclusion Wagner is the best, thanks for confirming

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

Happy to help, and if you want to order with us, also happy to help there!

[@clint3651]

Just up graded my OE plastic FMIC on my 2013 F-150 with the Wagner EVO thru Stage 3 motorsports. Butt dyno is happy!

[@worthesis_2183]

Great video guys. I noticed you posted several dyno numbers of the F80 M4 pre Wagner Radiator/Top Mount Intercooler. I as well as many other F80 owners would be curious to know what the after numbers were or would be. I could gauranteed get you a high number of views from Forum members having these same decisions for intercoolers as I am. Cheers!

[@aikidokamks]

Their stepped core design was a great upgrade for my 2012 Kia optima sx

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

nice!

[@brandonaitken1180]

Ok I’m sold.

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

whenever you want a wagner feel free to hit us up at ModBargains, 714.582.3330 [e-mail]

[@FlatPlaneCranky]

Please do this same info on water intercooler heat exchangers. Great video!!

[@ronhay6511]

Thanks Will Jeff, glad you liked it. Hmm there are some interesting findings there as well, I'll think we'll work that into this years KYM segmants, try to find a way to do more eductation on it. Please subscribe so as it does get released you have it. And again thank you!

[@FlatPlaneCranky]

Ron Hay subbed:)

[@solobellimino2356]

Great video I don't know much, but TF made sense to me, even though i keep seeing BP as the better option. Just based on the flow rate of BP, I just didn't see how BP was the better option over TF. Just generally speaking

[@ronhay6511]

Thansk Solo! Racing and application wise TF (Tube and Fin ) will always be used, 1. Weight savings, 2. Exit flow to other components like radiator, intake etc 3. Similar flow rate but also control of build Cons: More expensive, requires Mold and size specific/vehicle specific BP(Bar and plate) design - Pro's 1. Cheaper to produce, sold for cheaper price 2. quicker to product, but in term of flow rate not the case from the data being any better. Often times or only option is going to be a bar and plate, and what you end up seeing is really a lot of people just trying to concentrate on surface area only.

[@Rafpat1989]

I am looking an aftermarket intercooler fot my I30N. I am betwwen Forge, Airtech and Wagner. Cant deside yet.

[@FernandoPineda-jr9ek]

Awesome video i had only seen wagner online but did not know anything about it. I wanna upgrade my intercooler on my mercedes c250, what would you recommend

[@mukhtarrasdi9542]

Order WT intercooler for my TTS coming soon😀😀😁

[@talkingmods]

Congrats!

[@sggjose]

That's great... But it's really a tough ask at 2 - 2.5 times other aftermarket parts. I doubt it's worth it.

[@ronhay6511]

Jose, the prices are right in with the low to value line products, they've brought their prices down considerably. I think the only stuff thats going to be in the 2 - 2.5x realm would be the high end competition level stuff, with the carbon fiber shrouds etc, which is overkill for most unless they are actually competing or putting down in the over 800HP range.

[@rushy3756]

Will this intercooler work well for stop and go driving?

[@talkingmods]

Hi Rush, yes it will. of course constant flow to the car is best, but this is still going to be the the best IC(intercooler) you can get. Which car do you have? Hit us up at ModBargains, sales@modbargains and we can help out!

[@Hellstrom1]

Definitely on commission

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

Nope really just believe in the product, if you watch the tour I took on other video at Wagner's facility in Germany and aren't amazed by their engineering, don't know what to say. But these guys took that entire area of engineering to a whole new level that others are still trying to catch up to them, they just lack knowledge here in the US market, so I wanted to make sure people got to know about them.

[@tomitomi7214]

One one fastest Audi’s in the World come from Polish based tuners and they only use Wagner IC. As a matter of fact they say IC should be first mod you do to your car

[@vasolazovic3670]

wagneer has zero info on their products,i want to go tte 680 on my n54 and idk which intercooler can support this

[@daniellawson5127]

This goes against almost everything I've ever heard about Tube/Fin and Bar/Plate intercoolers. I mean its well known tube and fin is lighter, and can offer less pressure drop... but everything I've heard and also common sense, says tube/fin (because of their lighter weight) suffer from heat soak way faster, they may suffer less pressure drop (typically 1psi or less) but the charge air isn't cooled as well. What's 1 psi if there's a large difference in charge density? There are several independent tests that I've looked at, done on high end aftermarket intercoolers of both types. The results always show bar and plate coming out on top for cooling, and with that performance. With negligible to no difference in pressure drop and spool time. The last big problem with tube and fin, unless these guys figured out a more reliable way of building them is strength. Tube and fin typically can't handle as much boost pressure and can be damaged far easier from rocks/road debris.

[@talkingmods]

Just saw the comment, bit late, well lets back it up where are those independent studies? Wagner is one of the few that shows the real pressure stats on their items, rather then the rest of the aftermarket scene. There are times where bar and plate application comes into play but in general Tube / Fin is superior (just marketing hyper to keep costs down in general to say bar and plate is superior) But there is more to it then that, fin designs, end tank design and build quality of course. Not sure on the strength question but I know Wagner's , are used by real world race cars and have taken hits with no problem so they are stronger from what I've seen. As to the cooling section, common sense, on the opposite end of bar and plate, which acts as a wall to air travel through, tube in fin a great benefit to cool down rest of vehicle, common sense would suggest if air is traveling as car is moving it stays cooler constantly rather then just sitting there warming up.

[@tturi2]

I was told bar and plate is better for cooling, slightly worse flow and heavier/stronger

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

Bar and plate is generally not better for cooling, however I am sure there are certain examples where there can be made an argument, why I like companies like Wagner doing all the testing and engineering they do. (tube & Fin is just far more expensive) But keep in mind flow is pretty important especially when you have a radiator usually sitting behind it. Weight difference well that's just gravy on top.

[@tturi2]

@@Modbargains-google-plus Yeah I remember my old HKS intercooler being super lightweight compared to another one I had, I just put it down to quality, well it was probably that and the tube and fin construction when I learnt the difference haha, cheers for the information

[@talkingmods]

@@tturi2 Thanks and appreciate you watching :) Hope I can help educate on other items ( I do it here on ModBargains and our other channel ' Talking Mods' )

[@jkpisces]

why would you want to paint your intercooler black instead of leaving it as a raw finishing? wouldn't that affect heat dissipation and stone chips will make it look so bad .

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

Hi JK, well a thermal black coating can help dissipate heat actually. Sometimes they offer it in the raw silver finish as well, however some people prefer the more steath look in terms of looks at least.

[@jkpisces]

@@Modbargains-google-plus thanks for reverting . so is more for looks eh .

[@talkingmods]

@@jkpisces well pretty sure the coating that Wagner is using is increasing the heat dissipation (it's minimal but it's for that extra bit).

[@Mathewmartialart]

would have been good to proof read etc before uploading.. you have it as tack not track use

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

Yeah agreed, It's an auto thing by Google's system. We'll do our best in future on it!

[@digisuboob]

wagner only make a bar and plate for my car unfortunately

[@ronhay6511]

It's still going to be the most engineered bar and plate!

[@BimmerM5e39]

Tony Goldwyn anyone?

[@gaycha6589]

Idiot question - is an intercooler and charge-cooler the same thing?

[@Modbargains-google-plus]

Hi Gary, yes Intercooler and 'charge-cooler' is same thing just different names used by some people.

[@madink89]

Seriously, tube and fin is cheaper

[@ronhay6511]

Ricardo care to elaborate? Tube and Fin to purchase is always the more expensive one

[@censorshipBS]

Sorry but I find it very hard to believe that this intercooler will give you a 10-15 hp power increase all a larger intercooler will do is help your car maintain the horse power you already have for a longer period of time it's not going to change the fuel map of the car so how can it increases power I just don't believe it

[@ronhay6511]

So Lenny the intercooler is cooling down the air right, hence increasing combustion. In certain cases yes you are talking about retaining horsepower but when you do a tune, on top increase other factors, bottle neck is head - and with a tune you'll generally see around a even higher number of 25-30HP, this has been proven countless times by dyno's independently across the world.

[@censorshipBS]

@@ronhay6511 correct if you do the tune (mapping) after the install The point I'm making is it will not increase hp by just fitting it with no mapping and the people who sell them.make it sound like it will As I said it will only help you retain the power you already have

[@ronhay6511]

@@censorshipBS actually no, I am still saying there will be more power, just saying bigger power when mapped. Let me explain, the primary way that Front Mount Inter cooler (FMIC)'s or any cooling products make power is by lowering the air temperature charge. Colder air is denser and has more oxygen molecules for the same space. That means that you can add fuel and now have more power with combustion. Mass Air Flow sensors (MAF ) since 1990 on for any vehicle, adjust accordingly to what they are given. So hence you see a horse power gain. Example different product: If we give a car Methanol or NOS, we will see instant horsepower gain, even if we put higher octane we will see ever so slight difference. Another example of the MAP, is if you disconnect your battery overnight and then re-plug in your car and go for a drive, the engine will perform all over place, it's the MAF relearning air, fuel etc for your vehicle (vehicle's are not horsepower capped). So to sum up numbers wise always hard to say exactly but it's realistic on a stock vehicle to see a gain like a 10-15hp, if it's mapped you'll see even more, where I've seen if the product is great like say a Wagner up to a 25-30HP gain. Of course every products ability is difference.

[@censorshipBS]

@@ronhay6511 I'll get one and try it out on.a dyno my car is re moped from 245 stock to 320 so let's see how much it will gain I bet it doesn't gain over 20hp I has a different car that was re mapped to 400 I fitted water methanol and it gained 40 hp and that was with timing increase so only 10% so I very much doubt that the one running 320 will get the same result by just added an intercooler but I'll let you know in a couple of weeks

[@ronhay6511]

@@censorshipBS interested to hear how it goes, I am sure you know try to dyno on the same dyno, same ambient temps. But appreciate you doing the feedback. What vehicle is this going on, and what brand of IC, it's a wagner?