1000Ah Battery Bank Part3 - Testing the Condition of my Salvaged Batteries

[@icns01]

This is why KZbin is such an invaluable resource.....because of content like this. Superb video! Detailed, clear, explanations. The only thing missing was how and where on earth do you get 8 telecom grade batteries for 40.00!!😳😅

[@knurlgnar24]

I noticed that my employer at the time had them staged for disposal as they had exceeded their allowed storage duration and needed to be thrown out. I simply offered facilities to pay scrap value and they happily agreed to let me do the work for them. :)

[@icns01]

@knurlgnar24 Excellent..so much electronic waste can actually have a useful life in the right hands...👍

[@knurlgnar24]

Dumpsters full of it at that employer, and the same everywhere else. Can't save it all - or even much of it. While people generally don't care if you're polite about it you aren't legally allowed to salvage anything for liability and conflict of interest reasons.@@icns01

[@adon2424]

a very good job on this series. I also greatly appreciate not being subjected to obnoxious imposing "music". keep up the great work

[@oudotcom]

You should use a Bedini or Joulethief or best Re-EMF charger to charge and refresh them. Maybe you will also get the broken battery again up, if there is no cell shorted... Also add a bit destiiled water, if it has evapourized and the cells are dried out...

[@63ch31]

The broken one was internally shorted, and it's not possible to fill the batteries with water because they are completely sealed.

[@joshuanorris5860]

Its also impossible to add water, the batteries are sealed up tight! If he could do that he would try to revive that dead one even. Sealed batteries last longer without maintanence... But its annoying if one of them needs service from missuse.. because you cant lol

[@chriskennedy7534]

They aren't actually sealed, the rectangular plate on top lifts off revealing the 6 cell caps, add distilled water and equalise

[@badace]

Thanks for posting this battery test. Wish more people understood the only way to determine if a battery is "good" (i.e. Amp Hours) is to discharge it with a fixed, known load and measure the time it takes to reach "zero" (the cut off point for your battery technology).

[@knurlgnar24]

Yes, it's unfortunate that starting batteries are generally only tested for starting capability when determining their condition. (Starting capability meaning current draw for a short time or an impedance test). But then it does give a good indication of its real condition and it isn't exactly practical to do an hour long test on them either...

[@pulesjet]

I think you can open those batteries. They have a Vent. Vent means that top pops off some how.

[@DaveJohnsonad5nm]

You do understand that these are data safe batteries and not storage batteries. Data safe batteries are rated for 15 minute rate of discharge and storage batteries are rated for 20 hour rate of discharge.

[@noahriding5780]

How many amp hours do you really need? 1000 amp hours is impressive. But most of us would take a lot of time to build a battery bank up that much. I'm curious at what point someone would probably have enough to function before getting to that point with budgetting usage to just things you need.

[@denton3737]

We use these same batteries (higher amp hours) for our -48VDC battery bank for a small telco. 4 strings of 4 with over 200 Ah per string.

[@JoeCiliberto]

You could buy or build a wired-wound power resister with a a recording ammeter (or just take notes in line and let it run for a hour or so under load. I'm pretty sure the voltage will not vary but its amp hour endurance is a better gauge of battery health.

[@hemnali8815]

can you tell me please how many watts the heater need to use

[@johnkanterakis4524]

knurlgnar, I have VRLA -AGM Batt's that I am still using for my Off Grid Solar system and find that they last for ~ 4 years (350 Ah ea for $500 current price. I purchased a De-Sulfator to help the Batt's live longer, and being VRLA's I thought of maybe adding some Distilled H2O and see if they will last longer. "Mine are Caterpillars" I could not help wondering if yours have a removable cover ! Did you ever triy to pry & break if you have to the cover. Then you could add some H2O and use them as flooded until the H2O evaporates! Please let me know! Total System -12 AGM's @ 48 V -3 parallel sets -lots of power & lots of $$$!!! John Kanterakis 5000 ft in South AZ

[@knurlgnar24]

No covers that are easily removable, though I could cut away the cap that covers the vents and re melt it back on. The design of these doesn't make it very easy to do though.

[@johnkanterakis4524]

@@knurlgnar24 --Did you ever hear of the NiFe batteries from China sold by Iron-Edison of Denver Co.-The Forever Battery--Check them out some time. John Kanterakis

[@aaryjan]

".. This one's is 12.77; that indicates it probably has a weak cell somewhere and could use equalization.. But I don't want to do that; they are sealed, they are A.G.M., which is highly recombinant"... If I may ask, what is the meaning of these three terms? Thanx!

[@pauldjerassi620]

My understanding is that you can re activate these batteries again with a bit of know how that i think is available on line $ 40 .00 you got a present of them .

[@USSBB62]

Would like to hear your opinum on Iron-Edison batteries. Iron alkali mixture instead of the more common Lead Acid batteries.

[@knurlgnar24]

Nickel-Iron is another battery chemistry alltogether and has it's own applications separate from lead acid. I don't have any practical experience with them except to say that they wouldn't be practical for most home owners. If you're a utility company or large business owner or such then they may warrant more research.

[@USSBB62]

***** Thanks , more reading is needed on my part. I do thank you.

[@JoeCiliberto]

Is there no way to check specific gravity?

[@shartne]

AGM batteries can get better buy putting them on a small solar panel for about a month at least my optima got better or came back. You can screw in a post or some use gold plated stud with a bolt in the top of that.

[@zeffur7]

Good vid series. Clever load testing setup. Although, I think a typical Ah batt test uses a constant current circuit as the batt loses V during discharge. Your test 1 data indicates your batt delivered approximately ~59.6% of it's rated capacity (e.g.: 59.6 Ah/100Ah___59.6 Ah = 74.5A * .8h). That's pretty good for a batt that has been sulfating for a while after only 1 recycle recharge.

[@knurlgnar24]

Constant current draw would be better for a true Ah test but I just used equipment I had on hand, which is good enough for my purposes and most other people's applications. If I were a battery manufacturer or designing equipment that uses these batteries I'd want something more controlled and accurate.

[@zeffur7]

It wouldn't take you long to find a circuit online, get & solder the components together, & connect that small circuit in place of your heater. If you did it on the cheap with scrap/recycled stuff, you could probably find some nichrome wire from an old electric heater (clothes dryer or metal strip electric heater element). I get your point about convenience, though. I'd guess your testing method is probably accurate to within 20%, so that's good enough for most people, I suppose. Thanks again for sharing!

[@hemnali8815]

can you tell me please how many watts is the heater

[@DMAN22yeah]

+hemn ali standard 1500 watt

[@shaunmiller9369]

where did you get these batteries from? thanks

[@Captain_Char]

you could have tryied popping the vent top off that dead one to see if you could have added water

[@mrvelleful]

By using an inverter, the power is pretty constant. Was that a deliberately choice? Could you just as well have used some load with a linear resistance? My thoughts are using a coil of copper wire, with a fan.

[@knurlgnar24]

The inverter was used because it was convenient. A linear load would also work for this application.

[@arein131313]

About the dead battery...can you contact the manufacturer and perhaps request a warranty replacement? They ARE supposed the last up to 15 year... just a suggestion. Love the videos.

[@knurlgnar24]

I did get them as scrap so I'm not going to contact the manufacturer about them. Aside from that they were stored improperly which caused their demise so even if they accepted my request, I spent the dollars to ship it out, and their RMA dept received it they may still deny my request.

[@diysolaradventures7894]

Did u charge them all at the same time as one battery bank or individually ?

[@knurlgnar24]

Individually. Ideally one would desulfate and charge each cell individually but there's practicality and time factors involved.

[@RonPiggott]

Do you know of Bedini charger to desulfate lead acid

[@dastatiks6182]

Hey ! Thanks for the video, 6 years old but still usefull ! How the batteries are doing ? I've got few SBS 190F batteries for free, voltage is around 10.6v for some of them. I'm trying to restore them but I think that one cell is bad and battery is dead... I will leave them on solar charging with no load for a week, we'll see... Thanks !

[@knurlgnar24]

The batteries are doing well. I did have to desulfate them a 2nd time due to some storage issues (I don't cycle them very often) and they came back even better the 2nd time than the 1st. They are getting close to 10 years old now and I suspect calendar aging will start taking its toll soon.

[@dastatiks6182]

@@knurlgnar24 They are really cool batteries and well designed. What do you think about the 10.6v voltage ? Do you think they are still recoverable ? Even with that voltage, I think they can be still usefull.

[@TheBlackadder-Edmund]

knurlgnar24 You mention the inverter uses the load down to 10.5V, if it is a lead acid battery would that be ok for the batery? Or what would the minimum be for a lead acid battery to safely discharge for the test (some people go up in arms when you go down 12V). Thanks

[@clintorison1602]

I'm not the op, but I can tell you that discharging a lead-acid battery to below 50% capacity will shorten the cycle life, to below 20% capacity will do so much more quickly and while the point which is considered "full discharge" may vary somewhat (thanks to additives like Ca, Sn, Co, Si, Sb) ~11.6v is generally considered to be an absolute bottom voltage if you don't regard your 12v lead-acid batteries as disposable. You may get a few joules of energy out of the battery by discharging it further, but very very little and absolutely not enough to justify the damage done. For example you would likely fail at starting a puny 3cyl 1.0l Geo Metro with an enormous 120lb semi-truck starting battery after it has discharged to 11.5v and you will cause irreparable damage in the process. I wonder if he didn't mean 11.5v since almost every inverter I have ever seen that will automatically shut down does so at that point or higher - since below that voltage further discharge will cause severe damage without doing much if any useful work, as will storing them in that state of discharge.

[@f.w.1318]

what battery charger do you recommend on these agm batteries, for general purpose charge and maintain, do you use a manual or auto charger thanks

[@DMAN22yeah]

a standard automatic charger

[@ericcurrence8477]

I've got a million questions to ask you. I'm just learning about this stuff and I would like to set up a solar system on my rv. As far as batteries go… I'm leaning towards AGM batteries due to their low maintenance. Do you have a recommendation where I could pick some of these up cheap? Or is there a brand that you prefer?

[@knurlgnar24]

Most batteries die due to improper care and use. If you are new to battery systems I would recommend starting with a cheaper flooded battery - preferably lead calcium because it gasses far less. I use them indoors - not a problem - but a confined space will require ventilation. Lead antimony is a little smelly/messy. Once you have some experience with using/abusing them upgrade to a better AGM battery once those have about had it. A cheap battery will last far longer than the best one money can buy if it is treated well and the other is not. Might as well make any mistakes on the ones that cost 1/3 as much!

[@gregalexander7320]

Is this geared for a full semester class? This is a VERY LONG video! Still don't know where you got the batteries or if this was just a once in a lifetime deal...

[@donniefiechtner5437]

I'm confused on the 80 amp load through a 2000 watt inverter. I'm considering setting up a system to run lights and small loads in my shop and I'm very new to this and very easily confused.

[@knurlgnar24]

What part is confusing? Let me know and I'll try to help if I can.

[@donniefiechtner5437]

***** I fixed up a pole shed on the farm for a small shop. I'm powering the whole shop now through a 60 amp 220 breaker and a 150 ft. 10-4 cord. When the 5hp compressor starts or I start my drill press the florescent lights blink out and I'm guessing the load on the chord is too high. Would I be able to hook up more than just lights and a small fan to a 2000 watt inverter? I thought 80 amps at 110v would require a huge inverter.

[@simonpeter9198]

Q-

[@donniefiechtner5437]

That's what confuses me, how does approx. 1000watt heater at 110v give 80 amp load on his battery set up?

[@knurlgnar24]

donnie fiechtner A 1000w heater doesn't actually draw exactly 1000w which is part of the problem. These cheap heaters are usually less than advertized. But if we assume a true 1000W for the heater, then we need 1000W plus about 10% from the batteries with the 10% being lost in the cabling and inverter. If the battery is at 14V (because the alternator is outputting more than 12V) then the calculation is approximately: 1000*1.1 = 1100W 1100W/14V = 78.6Amps

[@bundydryandlime]

I dont know how you think it is a 1000Ah bank with 8 x 100Ah batteries?

[@DMAN22yeah]

watch the rest of the vids

[@DMAN22yeah]

hey, i have a 12v 14ah agm that sat at a low voltage for a while, it charges off an old self contained battery charger and inverter package that had the inverter short out. it charges at around 14.2 volts, when its done charging it is 13.19 volts, and after 12 hours drops off to 12.8 volts. under a usb 2.1 amp charger it drops to around 12.72-12.75 and stays there. it powered a .7 watt light for 10 hours with no noticable voltage drop, when i checked in the morning it was still at 12.73 or 12.74 volts. do you think the battery is damaged at all? also, how far should i let the battery drain? ive heard 10 volts, but i wont take it below 11ish without knowing. it is a good quality battery, worth $70, so i hope it isnt damaged.

[@RobbyJHope]

DMAN22yeah Sounds like your 12v battery is performing just fine.

[@DMAN22yeah]

epohnopulse ok, good to know. It appears to have desulfated and gone up .25 volts on all the measurments, so it appears ok.

[@stager33]

take the bad bat and drop it from about 8" at least 3 times then charge it you might get a working bat

[@Lordlindef]

How much you can sharge this in 24volt solar ??

[@knurlgnar24]

Depends on how much solar you have. I guess I don't understand the question. A 10kw array would charge it pretty well.

[@Lordlindef]

@@knurlgnar24 24volt agm 44kw system. What to sharge to 29.1 ore 28.8 ??

[@Ben-Dedia]

were did you got this battery for that price

[@knurlgnar24]

I bought them from the maintenance department for a company that manufactures industrial equipment. They were going to be given to a recycler, so they sold them to me for scrap value and everyone got a good deal. except the scrapper maybe...

[@Ben-Dedia]

nice lucky you

[@asadjamali1028]

bhai 1s battryb ko kitna is amper kitne chahi ye full krne k liye

[@josephpuchel6497]

Hey Excellent work. Very informative. I was thinking of making a backup solar panel setup myself.

[@sammyg3697]

How do I calculate amp hours through an inverter?

[@knurlgnar24]

If your system is 12V and your inverter is 120V you can just multiply amperage by 10. (approximate) If your appliance is rated for 6A then you will draw 60A out of the battery. If you do this for 20min that is 1/3 of an hour, so 20 amp hours. Note that I recommend using 1/2 of the battery bank's amp hour rating for sizing purposes.

[@paulmicallef5889]

My name is Paul Micallef from Australia,I am sorry but I whant to make a correction in this Video, No.8 battery will take a charge if you charge it with a Beddini Pulse motor TRUST me I do Knoww I baught a 5KW battery bank and no charger would accept these battery to charge them,I put them individually on a 17.5v pulse motor and braught them all back to life and still working Thank you for your videos Paul 4/8/2015

[@julioARTUROS]

Yes it has market value of almost 600 bucks

[@smartstuff2buy]

use steel bolts instead of zinc coated

[@knurlgnar24]

Normally I would use stainless steel for battery applications, but these are sealed AGM and shouldn't leak. Most less expensive battery bolts are zinc plated so these bolts are perfectly acceptable for this application.

[@Jojo-tl6io]

Thanks for sharing

[@h7oslo]

Good score on quality batteries for $5usd each ! rc And probably still is today, in 2017 !

[@NEMOZAC]

t5here are ways to try to bring battery back and sometimes you can be lucky %10 -%20 if you try very slow triickle charg and discharge 4 times to %50 discharge they can come back but 10v working at full is not wastefull either

[@knurlgnar24]

I actually have a video out on how to properly desulfate batteries which covers the same basic method you describe. I agree, it sometimes works well!

[@RobbyJHope]

***** Slow trickle charging doesn't desulfate plates...

[@JuanFranciscoCamargo]

Sabe alguien de cuanto es su CCA de esas baterías???

[@TechHowden]

They don't have an official CCA rating because they aren't meant for cranking

[@LawrenceDuffy477]

It's funny how our approach is different. I'd number them all first. Then test. Of course then I'd have 1, 2, no 3, 4, 5...... Then friends would come over , "Hey where's the 3??" I guess that's because I might fix 1200 circuit boards de solder then solder. And after the repair or part switch out what fails fails, record the number. It's so ingrained I thought, "What luck the last one, #8 failed." Then I thought...oh yeah...

[@thedavesofourlives1]

can't add water? yes you can, especially when they start reading over 12.7 sitting after surface charge wears off, indicative of higher concentration of acid in the matts.

[@knurlgnar24]

Water can't be added without destructive methods - I should have clarified that point. It can be done but there are reasons I don't like to open sealed batteries like this to add water.

[@obvioustomost]

enjoyed the video, quite wordy.

[@joshuanorris5860]

Hey i like your recycling attitude. I would take a gamble on some cheap batteries :P i will have to poke around a bit! Hehe

[@stephenfoster9162]

Amperage???? Don't you mean current?

[@knurlgnar24]

no, I mean amperage.

[@TechHowden]

@@knurlgnar24lol

[@earthenergyhex]

I am gonna mail my inverter to you so you can fix it.

[@anthonykirk9841]

If your inverter is not pure sign-wave, plugging in your heater which is an inductive load will destroy the inverter and the heater.

[@knurlgnar24]

Neither the heater nor the inverter cares since an electric heater is a nearly perfect resistive load. Inductive loads such as refrigerators, induction motors, and compressors do care.

[@عوضصالح-ش7ك]

ممكن ترجمه العربية

[@FloryJohann]

Dumb chargers come in handy. If a battery is getting discharged to much a smart charger may not recognize that there is a battery or it will tell you that the battery is bad and will not start to charge. A dump charger would try to charge such a battery.

[@knurlgnar24]

yup. Any serious battery owner should have at a minimum a dumb charger, a smart charger, and dedicated battery maintainer. These are not things that everyone needs to have but there's certainly an application.

[@DMAN22yeah]

another good tool is a variable power supply, can charge all types of batteries and are fairly cheap

[@clintorison1602]

Of course so can a light bulb (or other appropriately sized resistive load) or a motor run capacitor (or other appropriately sized PURELY capacitive load) OR a properly sized choke (or other purely inductive load) in series, plus a diode of some sort or better yet a bridge rectifier. The variable power supply is probably the better choice though since it is not directly connected to mains voltage and doesn't require extreme vigilance like the ghetto alternatives I mentioned, which are able to safely charge a battery because they are constant-current sources or DC, which comes with the caveat that being constant-current they will approach mains voltage as R tends toward infinity - and thus will overcharge the snot out of any battery if one is not careful, also will fry any attached electronics if someone tries to charge a battery in-circuit and likewise will do the same to any attached operators who touch both poles/clamps without first disconnecting from the mains, etc. It is always a good addition to one's MacGuyver skill repertoire to be able to charge a AA (including a dead alkaline) from a car battery - which works directly (in about 2 seconds as well, but they will get hot and can explode) but is much safer if done slowly using a string of a few christmas lights (or the car's overhead or side marker light) in series or from the wall with a nightlight bulb + diode/rectifier, or (relatively) safely charge a dead car battery from a wall socket with a 60 or 100w light bulb + rectifier (DISCONNECTED from the car first or you will kill the electronics!). Or get REALLY hardcore and do it with nothing but a mains lead, borax and table salt, and two buckets of water (or one's own urine or the blood of thy enemies, depending on the situation). The borax will make a rectifier and the table salt a resistor when mixed in the right concentrations with water and used as electrochemical cells. Yeah I'll STFU now.

[@christhompson1348]

Amazon has them for $172. thanks for the info!!

[@SBRYemen]

Good

[@J7-Steny]

could they be used to create an electric car?!! EV?

[@knurlgnar24]

Possible, but lithium is a better technology today for that purpose. I've considered making an electric trike with them though! You know, the bicycle kind with a basket in the back.

[@J7-Steny]

@@knurlgnar24 how many miles on each could you possibly get per charge?

[@sbgMike1]

hey kanst du mir 2-4 von den akus schenken bitte grüsse aus österreich lg

[@aj2674]

I'll give you $100 for the good 7 batteries, lol.

[@garymitchell9859]

I'm asleep now.

[@fidgetspinner8598]

YOU BASICALLY FOUND THOSE BATTERIES...SPENT MORE ON WIRE... (“..GAMBLE..”?..lol..whatever dude..)..QUIT BEING....WELL, JUST QUIT GLOATING...(USED ZINC PLATED BOLTS IN PLACE OF STAINLESS STEEL BOLTS?.....SHEESH)

[@TechHowden]

What

[@psycronizer]

this guy puts me to sleep

[@edism]

psycronizer When you become an adult you might find it more interesting and less tiresome.

[@psycronizer]

Edward Yeboah well, you are making a terribly naieve assumption there, bro,the reason I find this guy and his "good score" so boring is that its very very simplistic and old hat to me,I'm sorry I just cant get excited about some silly 'ol lead acid storage cells! btw, I'm 45 and have more knowledge of just about every science disipline tht you can think of...

[@herbyverstink]

psycronizer you are certainly well versed in blowhardism

[@edism]

I think you meant 'naive' and 'discipline'. Anyhow, at 45 years old you should know better than to use words you don't know how to spell, make inane assumptions about how your scientific knowledge compares to others and also waste time watching videos on matters you already know about, only to whinge about doing so afterwards. Bro.

[@psycronizer]

Edward Yeboah well, after sampling a bit of the "talk" on 'tube I'm quite confident no scratch that,bloody sure that I'm, oh whats the word I'm looking for...is there any way I can say it without evoking some primative cave man like response where some dude starts pounding his own chest yelling or barking at max volume? its not my fault if I find most people less educated or guilty of saying things that make my eyes roll so far back in my head that I can see down my own spine to my a hole..right?I'm not joking man..dont get wrong tho I've got plenty of mates but have I found a chick who wouldnt bore me stupid or send me off the deep end after six months? no, I havent! thats why I am stll single at 45, had plenty but,meh,in any case, I'm not the only one, theres lots of clever clogs out there who dont get hitched etc etc, because they meet mr/mrs right...ps..you got naieve wrong.

[@mrjodoe]

40 bucks for many kilograms of pure lead. Because powersafe SBS (red cells), odysey extreme and some more have pure lead plates. none of this calcium sh1t Look at Pure lead prices^^ PS: 100% capacity means 12,85V+; I have got a used (Nov2014) Armasafe 100Ah; returns to 12,67Volts when charged - ~12A discharging test to 10,8V brought me 90Ah.

[@knurlgnar24]

Lead calcium and lead antimony batteries are usually made from recycled non-purified lead for cost reasons and have high contaminate levels of other metals with little quality control. Pure lead batteries require either virgin lead or highly reprocessed lead, so I agree that if you want to salvage lead from batteries stick to the pure lead ones.