Mixing QUAD-TRACKED GUITARS in METAL!

[@KohleAudioKult]

What's your favorite amp / speaker combo for blending two metal guitar tones?

[@ParanormalArson]

Not a specific amp or speaker, but I really pairing a high gain/chunky/slightly scooped amp and pairing it with a more moderate gain Plexi-ish tone withbthe mids turned up pretty high. The scoopy boi brings the chunk and thump and the Plexi-style tone helps everything cut through and brings a lot of clarity.

[@KohleAudioKult]

That’s a good combo. Kinda close to my good old Recto + Marshall blend

[@MartinvonBargen]

I've always been a stereo split kind of guy. I normally play HM-2 guitars in drop A and play a second tone to add more mids. Currently using the Lichtlærm Medusa into a Bandit with SM57/R121 and the same micing on something like a 5150 or a more metalcore sounding scooped sim if I want that tone. Great video as usual. 🤘🤘

[@AncientLegacyMV]

Nothing specific, but I love to reamp with a real tubeamp into my Fryette Loadbox and play with different IR's. I think that's the best of both worlds. I know...Real cabs and real mics are better, but when you don't have 100 cab's it is pure gold. Greet's and thanks for your work Kohle!

[@seventhlevelsound]

Nice, chunky & vocal tube amp tone + gross & slimy pedal/solid state distortion. Which amp + pedal combination will vary depending on the band, genre, etc but this "Beauty and the Beast" combo usually adds up to something crushing.

[@JustinTOsburn]

I prefer having the guitarists separated. Each through both rigs, hard panned to each side. You get the combination of the 2 rigs but also the stereo spread of the voicings in each ear.

[@jimb7216]

Like classic Slayer. I liked knowing (or at least believing) each side was Jeff or Kerry and I would listen to and dissect them separately.

[@JustinTOsburn]

@jimb7216 I do a lot of southern metal stuff like Down. Having the harmonies spread is a must

[@sega.milkis]

Old Slipknot, Static-X had this approach, and I love it. I always want to hear individual tones

[@b-raffmusic9144]

Is this how slipknots first 2 albums were done ?👀

[@JustinTOsburn]

@b-raffmusic9144 doubtful. They were on tape. They more likely single tracked each player and hard panned them

[@DeathMetalDuelist666]

Do a video on transient designing guitar DIs! I’ve really been enjoying fuzzier/woolier amps super high gain with little transient paired with lower gain with super boosted transient blended

[@KohleAudioKult]

I'm soooo old school that i haven't tried that yet!

[@DeathMetalDuelist666]

Try a scooped Mesa tone with a mid/presence forward mid gain 5150 tone and set it like how I explained in my comment, it has a very unique sound and good for more technical guitar work that still needs tons of body for heavier parts

[@Ottlovesyou]

THANK YOU ⚡️⚡️⚡️

[@1VERZHN]

We just recorded some guitars. Mine was my combo of a mesa badlander mixed with a revv red model on my hx stomp. The other guitarist used a blackstar tube pedal through archetype nolly. We played at the same time panning on left and one right then repeated it. I have an epiphone cantrell with fishmans and he has a strandberg, and man that is the best sounding guitar mix ive done so far🤘

[@lilian896]

Thanks for video!

[@IgoRthethrasher]

We done with my band something slightly different from the stereo split. My tracks are all on the right and the other guy are all to the left. So for instance where the harmony i layered they are hard panned, but the quad tracks are reamped with another tones and 75%. Is there something wrong to this approach?

[@ravensongstudios]

I have been finding that I like to find unique tones per side. Depending on what the song/playing calls for. For more precision/tight riffing, I will run a different amp per side but with the same cab/mic position and a single mic. Sometimes I will mic two different speakers on a cab for each side but blend it with a third consistent mic (ribbon or LDC). I have also found cool results with running the same tone for the first pair of tracks, then two completely different tones for the second pair of tracks, often with completely different amps and cabs. It can give a bigger stereo separation because of the completely different tones, but also still feel cohesive because of the same tone also running each side.

[@KreativeDevices]

🔥 Another good one

[@MrEvilb666]

I've also started to record 4 tracks of rhythm guitars for a few records that haven't been released yet. However, not with different amps, but with 2 different guitars and one track on each side with less distortion than the other. This makes everything a bit more differentiated and smoothes out some nasty highs and high mids, or nasty scratchiness.

[@Creepy999_]

Thanks for this one Kohle I've been asking myself if there is a correct way of panning quads and haven't found an explanation like this definitely going for the full course.

[@KohleAudioKult]

Great to hear!

[@leonidaspapanikolaou3165]

Absolutely amazing. Usually, I do two guitars 100% L/R and two 75% L/R 3-4 DB's lower.

[@jirosaves_theworld]

^ i do same like this dude

[@gitbox]

Newbie question here: what's the advantage of doing tracks 3 Dec lower? Does that not occupy the bass eq range?

[@erasenegatedelete]

@@gitboxhe’s just turning the volume down for the other two tracks, not dropping the notes lower or anything👍

[@lovecraftmusic8717]

Same and I can't understand if it's a waste of time or not.

[@gitbox]

@@erasenegatedelete I don't know why I read that as octaves instead of decibels

[@Sircebbal]

Gotta admit I went all for it and tracked 16 guitar tracks. Its actually 8 panned left, 8 panned right. Different Pick up configurations (Bridge, Neck, Bridge Split and Neck Split), Different amps (amp sims as I do not have the money to own 8 different amps) with different configurations and each one tailored to a specific need. It is crazy intense to record but it is really cool to do the experiment.

[@josku5]

Wtf that’s so much guitar…

[@Sircebbal]

@@josku5 IT'S NEVER ENOUGH!

[@pimpyohthrasth]

Great vid. Brother

[@christoghost]

if I recorded in stereo.. different amp on each side....and then I double tracked it will I lose clarity? or is it better to record the guitars in mono ?

[@80s_kid]

Very useful but it would have been great if you talked about this in terms of IRs as well. Did the two performances use different IRs for both methods, or the same one? So IR 'A' on the left and IR 'B' on the right with the "stereo split" method and IR 'A' and IR 'B' on both sides with the "wall of sound" method? I think I hear two different IRs in the video, but I'm not sure. Edit: And would it be a "proper method" if I would use two different IRs on left-right for both performances? So I would treat them as two separate double trackings. (There would be a total of 4 different IRs with both the wall of sound and the stereo split methods.)

[@teatime6414]

For wall of sound he used same rig for each performance left and right which implies same IRs for each layer. So bottom layer different rig, different IR. You get symmetry on left and right to get the wall of sound.

[@JayBeBerg]

Wow, I've never even considered having both guitarists playing in stereo on top of each other, except for haas delay, room sound etc. Of course it makes sense for a Wall of Sound. I always just look at a band from audience perspective and place the instruments on a 3D stage.

[@DerSilvano]

Hey Kristian. Do you process DI tracks? And if yes, could you do a video about that? Thanks, man

[@driftthekaliyuga7502]

You can sick tones just having quad tracked guitars with the same rig. So if you only have one amp you're still good to go. You can try tracking 2 on the crunch channel and 2 on the lead channel. Options are limitless.

[@plummetplum]

How did you avoid big mono when panning one guitar left and right. Was it two different mics or use stereo in the plugin ?

[@becominghuman3561]

4 different performances

[@philippgrunert8776]

Maybe I have to give it a go finally, I usually do one rig once either side to get more separation and was running fine. But I often complain to myself that one rig has more transient, and one more sustain which is bringing things off kilter sometimes. This would solve it all

[@becominghuman3561]

That ending tickled the shit out of me 😂

[@sisyphushappyxvx]

How do you ensure phase coherence across all tracks? Is this covered in the course? My biggest struggle with blending multiple amp tones has been phase alignment.

[@KohleAudioKult]

As long as you have 4 different performances there won't be any phase issues.

[@terry2315]

I just got the IK Multimedia Tonex OnePedal (the small one.) I wanted to try and use it as a preamp into one of my tube amps. I have Amplitude Max but it is version 1 and I am not paying another 100 dollars for not very much. I agree with the multi-tracks. I have found myself going back to how I always have done things. I mic up my cabs. I have different ones with different speakers. My wife made me sell my Mesa Dual Rectifier (Rack Mount) from the early '90s. Ok, financial circumstances did but she pressured me. lol. I am more upset I let go of my Mesa cabs. I have a Fender cab from the late '80s or early '90s with V30s in it, it's a 4 x12". I have a Marshall 4x12" 1960 Vintage A cab, and a Peavey Invective cab with the V30s and Creambacks. I still have my Marshall JCM 900 from the '90s and I got a Bugera Tri-Rec new, years ago just to record. It sounds great. Both my amps can put a lot of gain out especially if I add overdrive pedal. Lately, I have been overdoing it a tad. I have both my amps going and change up the cab I mic them while also running them through Captor Torpedo X. I am not very good with running my signal chain using plug ins properly. I have a case IR set (I think I bought from you) that is by far my favorite. I also always make sure I have a track with just the guitar in case I need to re-amp. All this to say, I am going back to old school as far as bass and guitar. I have seen things come and go. Digital stuff is great until it isn't. Tube amps can be fixed as long as there are parts. But what ever inspires people to write, record, and play is good. My preference is just keep it as it has been.

[@Markko1986]

So is this made out of 4 different guitar takes, or only 2 takes but each amped through 2 amps?

[@KohleAudioKult]

4 takes

[@lovecraftmusic8717]

I almost never do quad tracking because I'm afraid it gets blurred and not tight and not getting the benefit of the supposed "massive wall of sound" I struggle to notice ( I should to an A/B test); If I want to be sure to have more definition and hear the two guitars distinguishes I prefer not to use it. Another doubt of mine still, is if going full L/R or 75% each.

[@KohleAudioKult]

For transparency the two things you gotta get right are: - both tones should NOT be too close to each other sonically - the playing must be very tight

[@KratosIsSick]

I record 2X bars of the take, cut take 02 and send to next Track. Retain Take 01 on Track 1. It helps me not break momentum and focus on getting the playing part right.

[@lovecraftmusic8717]

@@KohleAudioKult danke, I'm working on the second since I get a little bit of chorus effect when I do the second guitar sometimes.

[@neilpatrickhairless]

The chorusing effect is because you're either playing ahead or behind or the interface is causing latency issues. Either way you'll chase it in circles forever.

[@lovecraftmusic8717]

@@neilpatrickhairless yep, something's off

[@iyhgtyea8028]

awesome, thanks :)

[@walterequinox3653]

Mein Lieblings Setup ist ein Engl amp mit Eminence swamp thang speaker und einem Trace Elliott Tramp cabinet 😎

[@KohleAudioKult]

Das ist mal ne besondere Kombo! Wusste gar nicht, dass es TE Guitar Cabs gibt.

[@dansonward]

don't have a time to look video so let's make it quick! What impulse-pack do i need to buy!?😅

[@KohleAudioKult]

Pro Tip: It’s much better to watch videos before making comments!

[@dansonward]

😅

[@DEADLINETV]

Great video with info, again! Apparently something I've been doing instinctively already, but good to know I'm not crazy(er than you! 🤣)

[@KohleAudioKult]

We're both completely normal ;)

[@justinreynolds3935]

Every time I've quad tracked it sounds weird and thin. Always just went back to double. Not sure if it's just phase or what but it never sounded as good as a double. The bass seems to be what makes things sound big. I'll try some of these ideas however and give it a go again. Thanks for the vid K

[@oskarwroniewicz]

It's just difficult to find two tones that work well together, definitely needs some practice and experimentation. You can make it easier using the same IR for both and just using different amps, or the opposite - using the same amp but different IRs. If both IRs and amps are different it gets really tough to find a good combination

[@justinreynolds3935]

@ that's a good point. I was always using two different amps or amp sims and they never seemed to gel right. Maybe this is why. Thanks for the tip. I'm all for bigger production.

[@neilpatrickhairless]

I agree, it always sounds like shit to me. Not necessarily thin, just shitty. Literally sounds like two guitar players LARPing as hamburger buns, just kind of weirdly loitering on the outer walls of the room while all the magic goes on inside

[@ZL1LoVeR]

My lazy and time-scarce self has to ask: does each DI have to be different to actually get a real stereo image? What if the DI is the same but the amps/cabs/gain stages are different?

[@KohleAudioKult]

You need to play four times. Otherwise you run into phase issues!

[@MaximusAdonicus]

@@KohleAudioKult But if u just doubletrack, then re-amp, the sound does get thiccer, thus giving a similar effect as quadtracking 🤔💁‍♂

[@ssmetalrulz]

What do you feel about using something like the KMA Endgame and it's true double tracking function to record only twice but essentially get a quad track ? I believe you can dial in the L-R separation in the pedal itself so record it at 100% once and then 50% next.

[@KohleAudioKult]

I'm a big fan of the Mimiq pedal! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXzJcmN7rNyBbNEsi=vS0Ets-QOwJ6DpBG

[@mikeconnors2176]

Are the original tracks recorded in stereo or mono?

[@andreikislitsin3622]

I believe guitar is always recorded in mono.

[@snapascrew]

What do you mean Mike?

[@neilpatrickhairless]

No clue how "are the guitars recorded in stereo or mono?" could possibly be clarified further

[@jamescendrowski4844]

Just found one of the stock plug ins that sounds like Morbid Angel Covenant guitar.

[@JoseGutierrez-lb4vf]

how 'bout 6 tracks so I can target low, mid and high frequencies? or is it too much?

[@snapascrew]

Focus on speaker cabinet choice and microphone choice/placement. You likely won’t even need to quad track. Quad tracking is a huge pain in the ass lol.

[@KohleAudioKult]

Of course double-tracking is fine with the right tone. Quad-tracking just gives you the possibility to combine two tones. That's opens up another universe of possible creations.

[@teatime6414]

Quad tracking also loses articulation in favour of thickness. I.e if it’s fast and intricate and you want the transients in a rhythm try double track and then use quad tracking for thick full choruses

[@snapascrew]

@@teatime6414very much agreed. Excellent choice of words . If tone blending is what I’m after - reamp and stack. If a wall of sound is what I’m after - quad track.

[@greevar]

I love the sound of a guitar with dual or quad tracking. I love it so much, I have a MIMIQ doubler so I can have dual tracking while playing. If I were to guess at how it works, it must delay both left and right a few milliseconds and then randomly varies the timing, pitch, etc, making it sound like two guitar tracked panned left and right.

[@andreikislitsin3622]

I have prepared the similar setup in Reaper using delay that is put on one of the channels with randomized timing. Does not give ideal doubling, but pretty good during playing.

[@KohleAudioKult]

The Mimiq is great for turning double intro quad tracked guitars. Check this out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXzJcmN7rNyBbNE

[@lencarmichael]

@kohleaudiokult see you at NAMM again?

[@KohleAudioKult]

Absolutely! There's even gonna be a meet & greet on Saturday!

[@jacksmith4460]

Why does dude look like he just came from a casual Surgery session when you dont look directly at the video but just below or above and use your peripheral vision?

[@samsonlovesyou]

I'm confused. Were those 4 guitar takes, or 2 takes, each played through two different rigs so that there are 4 tracks but still only 2 takes?

[@KohleAudioKult]

It’s always 4 takes like I say in the beginning.

[@samsonlovesyou]

@KohleAudioKult Thanks for clarifying!

[@woochyna]

Did the quad tracking for my band's last album and was really pleasantly surprised. No reamping, just what we got from our amps, held one guitar 100% left while the other was 100% to the right. I'm kinda sad that more and more bands aren't doing this and are instead recording DIs while putting multiple amps/IRs on a single guitar channel.

[@teatime6414]

I think the point of the video was around the difference between having layers of guitar tracks (above and below) vs having them either side left and right. Sounds like you had them left and right which is fine but not always desirable.

[@LOWFREQUENCIES]

Not enought Beers make you sick I think :D Take care and Happy New Year :)

[@KohleAudioKult]

That must have been the reason! Thanks!

[@charlesrocks]

Stereo split all day long…no center guitar tho?

[@thedddemon]

No one quad tracks any more. Andy Sneap is so 2008.

[@CrowkeeperStudios]

For most musicians, this is a mistakes, sounds like shit, and they simply do not have sufficient enough guitar skill to make it sound good. On simple riffs like this, OK. Start adding fast 16ths, and 16th triples and it becomes a big pile of shit. My advice, don't waste your time. Track Left and Right, Reamp through different rigs, and blend that. Instead of doing 2x as much guitar tracking and sounding 4x as bad.

[@clintmapes8454]

Ur sick for wearing that shirt hahahaha. Don't ever wear that shirt on utube again lol it's blinding me

[@AmoresAJ]

I hate quad tracking and that kind of studio "fakery" I prefer to find ways to make the guitar or guitars sound heavy in a way that can be done at any time, live, not using these kind of techniques. Though, this is the industry standard, because it is simple. Challenge: get the same heaviness without quad tracking.

[@KohleAudioKult]

It really depends on the project. I do both double and quad all the time! This is more about learning how to do it when it makes sense.

[@AmoresAJ]

@KohleAudioKult quite true, I just prefer not.