Kona Electric charging rates. Concluding my 39kWh vs 64kWh comparison

[@alandimery3379]

Great comparison Nigel, thank you. Thank goodness I have the 64 battery coming. I had to smile when you said about looking back to your ICE car days. After driving an EV for over 2 years I took the petrol Kona out for a test drive. After driving it for half an hour I honestly couldn't believe how much I detested driving a petrol car. I stalled it a couple of times because I forgot to put the clutch in when I braked to a stop.

[@EVPuzzle]

I did the same Alan. Takes some focus to swap back to a manual and feels so rough and old

[@_TrueDesire_]

Alan Dimery how difficult is it to press down a pedal... i do wish they could've kept the front from the ICE sibling it looks so much better. E-Niro and Kona will set the bar for EVs in 2019 ✌🏻who knew the koreans were better at making EVs than the japanese ?

[@FutureSystem738]

TrueDesireHD Firstly, Ask that question re a pedal from someone who has driven ONLY an automatic for a long time. Second, why on earth would you keep the big open grille from the ICE version. It’s all about clean aerodynamics. In years to come, we will all think big ICE grills are seriously ugly. (I do already! Just look at an original Tesla Model S compared to the updated nose.)

[@wobby1516]

FutureSystem738 I agree with you I much prefer the looks of the Kona EV to its sister ICE. and I guess so much easier to clean 🧽

[@alandimery3379]

It is not just about 'pressing one pedal'. It is pressing a pedal, changing gear, and braking several times a minute. I had just forgotten how awful an experience that is... and then there is that annoying noise and irritating vibration you get from the ICE.

[@frankstocker5475]

Thank you for taking the time Nigel.

[@EVPuzzle]

Frank, you're welcome. I'm clear of editting now so having a few days off.....

[@NigelWickenden]

You've made me pleased I have ordered the 64kWh Kona SE. Thanks for your videos.

[@EVPuzzle]

Blooming Eck, so many people reporting they ordered. Hyundai, you need to build more!

[@NigelWickenden]

@@EVPuzzle 42 week wait for my Ceramic Blue vehicle. Lease on 30kWh Leaf runs out early June.

[@EVPuzzle]

Blue is a popular choice 😁

[@NigelWickenden]

@@EVPuzzle Closest to Silver they did for the Kona EV.

[@EVPuzzle]

A few more colour choices would be nice

[@christophszonn8841]

Great comparison. Valuable information for those who want to by a Kona. Thank you very much.

[@ianrobins5501]

Thanks for the video, i wouldn't surprised if you are the only person to have the use of 39kWh & 64kWh Kona's at the same time. it's a interesting conclusion to the comparison. I think the difference in charging speed is down to the internal resistance of the battery pack being higher due to less cell being in parallel compared to the 64kWh which will mean less current going into the pack, also with a higher internal resistance you will get more heat generated so it's possible the BMS is controlling the current to keep the temperature under control hence why you were hearing the fans running on the 39kWh. just my 2p worth. keep up the good work

[@benellis7427]

The charging speed difference is due to different battery pack voltages. The lower voltage of the 39kwh (approx 30v less) means to match the 64kwh it would need to draw more current but both the battery/car and charger cannot cope with that.

[@themanofmead5273]

Another excellent and informative comparison, thank you.

[@davidarf]

Thankyou for another valuable report. On the question of efficiency, it could be argued that the 64KWH has done even better in that it is carrying more weight, or equally your results could suggest that the extra weight of the bigger battery is not an efficiency penalty over the 39KWH car. I also have the 64KWH and I am very pleased that I opted for this.

[@EVPuzzle]

I think the slightly slower pace and less assertive acceleration made the difference even if it was just a couple of minutes saved

[@FutureSystem738]

Weight makes only a minuscule difference on highway driving, (very slight increase in tyre rolling resistance) and slightly more in stop start but even then thanks to regen, far less than in an ICE.

[@adrianpike4649]

Thanks. This confirms my thoughts that the 39kWh battery is simply too small. However, if Hyundai were to make a 48kWh Kona with 1C charging rate (i.e. 48kW), that would make a compelling proposition!

[@askmanap]

battery charge rate is based on capacity of pack. in general, you can recharge at 1C rate max upto 80% of capacity (constant current) then it get charged at constant voltage to max fill. So, 40 min for 64kw vs 1 hour for 39kw for same 120 mile makes total sense.

[@PrehistoricTesla]

Ioniq manages over 2C, 70kW into 28kWh. Would be unfortunate if a water cooled pack can't do better.

[@EVPuzzle]

New Ioniq runs at lower voltage

[@PrehistoricTesla]

@@EVPuzzle that's bad news!

[@wobby1516]

Based on all you’ve said I’m so pleased I’ve opted for the 64kw car. It’s interesting that the heavier Kona with the larger motor is more if efficient, but then that can be true of ICE cars too. Maybe the smaller electric motor is having to work a lot harder and that led to the difference in efficiency, who knows!

[@EVPuzzle]

I think I said in my first test of the car. The 39kwh just seems more thrashable whereas the 64kwh is more relaxed and calm with so much power in reserve. I seriously considered the 39 after hearing so many people say you don't need a big battery. 95% of your journeys are less than the range of the 39kwh. Thank god I didn't listen as the bigger battery is well worth the extra money

[@wobby1516]

I all so think that having the large battery will negate range anxiety as the battery degrades over the years. I intend keeping the car for the next 10 year so that’s important to me.

[@Stuart300967]

Thanks for your video. I am like you wondering if battery comes from same LG company and is liquid cooled as on 64kw battery?

[@BuntaBall40]

I don't think you'll have to worry with Kona, all 39kw 🔋 likely be parked in Ioniq MKII, as stock management strategy

[@gavjlewis]

I am wondering with the difference in noise between the two, is the 64kw liquid cooled but to save money the 39kw only fan cooled? This would give a much smaller window for fast (high kw) charging on the 39kw (which is what you observed). Maybe they are expecting 39kw owners to home charge nearly all the time. I guess if you only fast charge a dozen times a year or so the extra charge time is not a massive issue.

[@EVPuzzle]

Maybe but why would it be cooling from cold? Fan noise after 15 miles slow driving at 5 degrees. Same from 5 miles and cold. One day we'll discover the difference

[@gavjlewis]

@@EVPuzzle My guess would be because there is no real thermal management. I would expect a temperature sensor to be mounted near the most inner battery cell as this will get the hottest when both charging and discharging (driving). This will be used for ramping up the fans. As the cell doesn't ever make contact with the fan assisted airflow it is essentially using the surrounding cells as heatsinks to dissipate heat. The downside is the outer batteries are cooled too much and outside their best operating temperature. This will cause slower charging and worse consumption. The system will be set up for worst case for preserving the battery and not best case for optimum charging. This is where liquid management excels. I'm sure at some point we will find out. But if home charging 99.9% of the time it shouldn't be a massive issue for most.

[@wobby1516]

Is it possible that there was a fault with the 39 kw Kona.

[@EVPuzzle]

Anything is possible even if unlikely but none of the journalists who tested before me found anything and Hyundai said they'd check it after I made comment ... and I didn't hear back. I guess , until an owner confirms or disproves this we just won't know. Hyundai only have the one 39kwh test car!

[@RodC14]

Been following your progress with the kona for a while with great interest and you have piqued my interest in an electric car for my next replacement. Could you share your experience on the current UK charging network and how did you choose one as your provider (do you have to)? What is the process to get a charge card and in using it? Thanks.

[@EVPuzzle]

RodC14 you're sort of asking the wrong person but... I bought the Kona so I didn't need to charge away from home for 99.5% of the time. So far I've chosen to NOT order any cards, RFIDs, no ecotricity, no polar, no chargemaster, no anything. Apart from Polar which I did research, I haven't even looked at the others. I've used instavolt and Engenie chargers and a few 7kw podpoint free to use chargers. I've planned my longer journeys around those chargers. I've not used an App once to start a charge. Just scrap of my debit card. All of my public charges so far have been FREE! The simple fact is I can choose if I charge and when so it's a matter of convenience and priority (whether I want to wait or just go home) Until I roam the country more, I'm not really best placed to say how good charging is across Britain. According to social media it's awful, except in Scotland where it's awesome. In Norfolk it's fine. Never been Iced, never had to wait to charge and never encountered a broken charger.....but I have a avoided Ecotricity. I should definitely do a separate video on this but so far I'm just not qualified to just such a large thing on my experience. For me it's been perfect because I don't NEED to charge, I choose when and IF I charge. 64kwhs really helps. I've found it's just a matter of confidence. There are lots of chargers I haven't tried, simply because the ones I do know, work fine. But until I've tried the others I avoid them as I don't know them. Solution, go out and try them all then you have lots more to choose from. I think it differs for everyone based on convenience and cost. I didn't charge last week as I knew I was passing a free charger on Sunday. I know others who used to walk to the shop but now drives a few times a week as there's a free 7kw charger there. Free chargers are used a lot more of course. Hope this helps

[@Mr2ee]

I see many saying it's a difference in battery composition between the two batteries, whereas I contend it's Hyundai's way to steer the customer to buy the higher battery capacity Kona for obvious reason - more profitability. I'm sure there's a higher markup for Hyundai to sell the 64kwh battery Kona than the 39kwh one, and they had to make "certain" decision to deincentivize customers to opt for the 64kwh battery capacity instead of the 39kwh. But of course, they also need to provide the option of 39kwh battery, for customers with lesser financial opportunities. If the 39kwh battery charges faster than 64kwh battery and is noticeably cheaper, chances are more people would choose the lesser capacity battery and would be lesser earning overall for Hyundai.

[@EVPuzzle]

We'll never know the reasons why with Hyundai. Theyve confirmed the parameters in the BMS are different but nothing else

[@Mr2ee]

@@EVPuzzle It could be. Or it could've been corporate decision than a technical one. But, they're car manufacturer with shareholders and board members, so even if the difference in charging time was due to "non-technical reason", I don't think there's any problem with it. That's how all for-profit companies work! 😓

[@BuntaBall40]

Great video, does this have any impact if charging on AC. ?

[@EVPuzzle]

No AC will be the same

[@BuntaBall40]

Have you charted AC?

[@EVPuzzle]

No as it's not recommended to regularly use AC with the granny cable

[@BuntaBall40]

@@EVPuzzle I was meaning AC which gives you a steady 6 - 7 kw via level 2 charging, in Australia thats 32amp at 240v

[@EVPuzzle]

Ok. Not sure there's any benefit though, it'll just be a flat graph at 7.2kw until the high 90% them dip to trickle charge at the end. Also, to me it's not worth the cost of pulling that much from the grid just for a test. 70kwh is almost a months home energy use for me. With my solar panels , I'm typically charging variably from 1kw to 3kw. Apart from early tests, I never charge at 7.2kw

[@backwoodsbungalow9674]

175/110 x 39 = 62, which suggests that the cells in the the smaller battery pack are being charged at about the same rate or slightly harder. 🤔

[@EVPuzzle]

So why does the Ioniq 28kwh battery charge faster. I'd love to understand

[@jlindgrenswe]

The ioniqs battery is at 360V. Kona 39 battery is at 327V.

[@jlindgrenswe]

Kona 64 battery voltage is at 356V.

[@edwyncorteen1527]

From your description of the noises heard while cars charging it sounds like the 39kw uses fans to cool the battery like the Nissan NV200 van, whilst on the 64kw it sounds like your have proper liquid cooling as found in Tesla cars. With charging time experiments you really really need to start with a full battery drive at least 100 miles and only then rapid charge, this will ensure the battery is fully warmed up, as you have found a cold battery will not charge rapidly, Bjorn has shown this in many of his test videos.

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

I dont get why people make dramas out of nothing. Charge rate has very little to do with battery capacity. It depends on battery chemistry, battery density and protecting the longevity of battery life.

[@Cloxxki]

Most people regard all cells to have the same properties. Forgetting that a measly Ioniq charges, per kWh available, faster than even Tesla's new record holder, the Model 3 Mid Range.

[@Techridr]

It's not "dramas out of nothing." Not everybody has the time to sit at a charger all day as you seem to have. It's a legitimate concern

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

@@Techridr You clearly have no grasp of charging regimes v battery life. I suggest if you want the battery packs of your EV to last more than a couple of years, you do some considerable and in depth research on the subject. If you're regularly fast charging your battery pack without the recommended 'long' charge regime, you'll find your battery life severely curtailed. People like you will them whinge to the manufacturer. You can thank me later when Ive saved you about 8 grand for a new EV battery pack but, I doubt you would.

[@Techridr]

Gonads1259 I’m on your side about that. Your statement read as if none of it was a big deal and everyone was making drama about it. Your current statement is much more clear and I agree with that 100%

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

@@Techridr OK fair do's.

[@i679n5]

Do you have similar graph for 100 kW chargers and upwards? Or know of any other having done similar graph/test?

[@EVPuzzle]

When Instavolt open their 150kw charger in Norfolk I might repeat this test

[@i679n5]

@@EVPuzzle a pure guess is that 39 kWh BMS will most likely not be deliver much better. At least not pass the performance of 64 kWh BMS.

[@EVPuzzle]

The pack is smaller, the voltage is lower so no the 39kwh will be slower charging

[@gerardvoorderhaak7061]

Maybe trying driving in reverse and see how the range is

[@pauldunneska]

Don't look back in anger.

[@stevemccormack9948]

It seems clear from this and other cars like the Nissan LEAF that a smaller(150 mile) battery is more stretched. Still the 39KwHr would make a good city car if the price was right.

[@EVPuzzle]

Steve, I'd always justify the extra for the 64 even as a city car. Residual value will be better

[@Andeboy]

What kW-rating did the charger have? 50?

[@EVPuzzle]

50kw yes

[@markjennings2315]

The HUD nav features are great. I wish our NZ Konas had the right software!

[@FutureSystem738]

Mark Jennings Do you have adaptive cruise control? I understood it wasn’t available but this video suggests otherwise, at least on UK models.

[@EVPuzzle]

Cruel that you don't have access to the maps

[@GameOver556]

Funny that the much older Ioniq 28kWh charges a lot faster. Up to 70kW

[@Cloxxki]

Even if they're the same, the 39 might be strained more.

[@EVPuzzle]

Hyundai have confirmed the parameters are different but haven't confirmed if the actual physical TBMS components are the same

[@stefanocs2]

@the ev puzzle I order 39 so where is the problem with this car? Hyundai fix it please

[@EVPuzzle]

Its just how it is, nothing to fix. The 64 is just better

[@stefanocs2]

@@EVPuzzle but i think it's the Kona 39 pre series for my information the 39 version it will be in production in January.

[@ronanoboyle8432]

Congratulations btw on your recent mention in InsideEVs: flip.it/wgXVun

[@gerardvoorderhaak7061]

It’s getting a bit boring now