Konjiki no Yasoukyoku ~Golden Nocturne~ [Beatrice]

[@Докторпарадокс]

"Illusions to illusions chain of illusions can hold back only illusions!" that was the moment i realized everything i never considered the possibility that non witch characters will lie but once i got over it everything fell into place

[@mads_in_zero]

I had a friend who theorized that Shannon faked her death in Episode 1 pretty early on (even going so far as to call that her and Kanon were the same person), so "that was a pretty risky game from the start" has become one of his favorite lines in the entire VN.

[@Докторпарадокс]

@@mads_in_zero now that is a perception 20 moment

[@extraterrestrial_lurka]

I’m impressed by the enthusiasm of the umineko fandom ,it’s amazing.

[@领主-元]

hope we get a ramake

[@Wutz_]

@@领主-元 umineko golden soon

[@romanovangenderen4615]

People using Knox' Tenth to disprove ShKanontrice haven't been paying enough attention. The fact that Kanons corpse has never been directly seen by Batter as well as the fact that Shannon and Kanon never appeared in front of Battler at the same time is more than enough evidence to make Knox' Tenth invalid.

[@MD-hx2ds]

+Romano van Genderen I still like how people are fighting the game with cliche's of the mystery genre Its like saying 9/11 couldn't happen because there are two many associations with Terrorists with bombs.

[@Battlesthegolden]

Especially since the umineko version of Knox states that body doubles can't appear unless they have been DULY prepared.

[@gaubanimation7336]

Romano van Genderen you can't use knox or dine To deny umineko. I think it is written at the beginning of the 2nd OP. "No knox, No Dine, no fair. in other words, that is not mystery. but it happens. all it happens. let it happens "

[@1mikeap4]

Gaub' Animation As far as I can tell Umineko actually follows Knox, but not Van Dine.

[@dchhhadarklight2428]

So if It doesn't follow Van Dine then WHAT WAS THE POINT OF WILL

[@chidorial]

Well, Kanon does stop existing when Shannon dies. Also, there's that one scene in EP7 with Shannon that pretty much either means that she freaks out when someone asks her to get Kanon and bring him to the same room as she is in, or she can't get Kanon in the same room as her for some reason.

[@haveyoureadumineko]

9 years late but its because shannon and kanon share a body

[@twistedsword8612]

@@haveyoureadumineko Better late than never

[@Ander0072originalv2]

@@twistedsword8612 True, but scroll down way way back, and he came to this conclusion himself 10 years ago. A flaw of comments by default being sorted by vote and not date.

[@patri_zzz5013]

Also, I have noticed that, whenever Kanon "is" with Shannon, Kannon says something but most of the time the characters interacting with him don't refer to his name or say it. "Maybe we should smash the windows of the Chapel to enter." Rosa instantly said "No way we're doing that." but never mentioned his name, only the reply.

[@dr.latency34]

@@haveyoureadumineko damn took longer than Battler lmao

[@dreamEnd]

"Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. SSVD Chief Inquisitor of heresy, Willard H Wright!"

[@Yamiyokun]

Perfect transition from Tsun- in the begining, to -Dere in the end. LOVE that it starts and ends with cackling

[@SuuriKissa]

After reading EP 7 and the lyrics of this song, i got the feeling that this song was a sing of what was to come

[@Lyendith]

Battler was the game master, and wrote a game were everyone played a prank on Erika. Since she had already been fooled in the 5th game, Erika killed the people playing dead herself, trapping Battler in his closed room.

[@WhatIsLove170]

*"I MURDERED my family prank GONE WRONG"*

[@T101Crazy]

Which is interesting since that would make the detective the culprit.

[@WhatIsLove170]

@@T101Crazy Erikas ally is twisted logic. Through some twisted logic she could say "I didnt murder them, I just verfied that they were dead through the most effective means readily available." Of course such a logic would never hold up anywhere except on the game board.

[@T101Crazy]

@@WhatIsLove170 But wouldn't the act of killing those who are still alive render her as culprit regardless? There'd just be two separate culprits- one as a prank and the other as a murderer.

[@WhatIsLove170]

@@T101Crazy We are not thinking about this is a realistic sense, we are thinking about it in Uminekos sense. Technically, there was not meant to be a culrpit to begin with, it was meant to be a prank on Battlers part. Because of this, Erika cannot be the culrprit even though she killed them since she is the detective and was just verifying their state. Its super twisted logic, but thats pretty much how it goes in Umineko.

[@hoby19]

When saying HUMAN, it's just refers to "BODIES", there's just 18 bodies in Rokkenjima, counting Kinzo and Erika, Shannon and Kanon just count as only ONE PERSON, that's why there's 18 HUMANS but only 17 PERSONS counting Erika. If the body of Erika really came to Rokkenjima is just a theory made by the Witch Hunts, who wanted to add more mistery to the island and his legend. Kanon really doesn't exist and there's a lot of evidence in both novels.

[@andrewmiller5126]

"I'll cut the truth out from the fiction."

[@HeydarBABA]

I love this song so much

[@kharkarus]

There are clues, there are rules, but there are no answers. We could be arguing forever, and even find the Truth, but we wouldn't realize it. Never.

[@kowari1255]

Ahh I am one yet many!!!! i have grown tired of playing the servant. I have grown tired of playing the human! U.U

[@marin0the0magus]

Let me counter that with red! If Erika's also dead, how come she counts? "Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left."

[@johanstenfelt1206]

One of my favorites.

[@salihgolen]

Gorgeous

[@seieireppa]

@Meister9Neo Don't forget Gaap. And Claire was more like the collective embodiment of all of them. And no, Lion shouldn't be included in that list, because in his world, none of the others exist, as evidenced by how Shannon had no idea who Lion was. Remember what Will said: Lion is the other side of the coin that is Beatrice.

[@kharkarus]

People don't realize... that the Truth of this Golden Tale is locked forever in a Cat Box :3

[@alaras]

A "human" only counts AFTER the Games begin. Kinzo is "a corpse" at the start of all games, and cannot affect them. Only humans have chance to affect things. Therefore, Kinzo's corpse is not a human because it's been dead too long. Erika's FRESH corpse, on the other hand, is a candidate, thus elevating her to the rank of "18th Human".

[@UminekoAnime]

if you google "rokkenjima in love download", i believe its the second link, at mediafire, is a good one

[@WanderSeth]

I have absolutely 0 idea what this is, KZbin recommended it to me at random

[@marchdarkenotp3346]

The algorithm is telling you to read Umineko, a masterpiece of fiction.

[@Ping0309]

READ UMINEKO

[@Lyendith]

Well, for all her great detective speeches, Erika showed in that Episode that she could make really stupid mistakes (like not making sure the corpses were dead). When she was introduced, she had no reason to find the absence of one of them suspicious, and during the gathering, even if she did notice she probably didn't care - she already had her culprit and her theory.

[@xMYx507]

alaras if i'm correct what hey meant by "even if you are included" means that "even with +1 to the total count of living people", so far in the previous games without Erika it was only confirmed that "Total living people is equal or less than 17". So i agree with with Meister9Neo, after all it was clued with EP7 by Claire. Also if you notice that they use chess as a gameboard each side should have 16 pieces...

[@asterthebastard]

The thing you pointed out about each side of a chessboard having 16 pieces blew my mind. Wow.

[@TheBitchWhoWasPromised]

Me too I just died a little! its GENIUS, I know ryukishi did it on purpose

[@SeerSerah]

Is Erika then a another "imaginary" friend/alter ego from Beato/Yasu?

[@beatrice0610]

I think Erika would actually be a part of Ange; have you read the Trick Ending of Episode 8?

[@SeerSerah]

@@beatrice0610 yes I have. But how could she be (mh I think it was 3 episodes) as "human" on the game board?

[@hoby19]

The status of the body doesn't change if it's a human being or not, and it doesn't really matter if the body can affect them or not, when someone use the red truth, it's a true fact, and no one says that it will only be affected by the start of the game, that's why Beato decreased the number of humans from 18 to 17 when Battler finds that Kinzo was already dead. There's no more than 17 humans on the island for the first four games. Where goes Kanon's body, everytime that Shannon dies?

[@kyle6flukey]

That was awesome

[@pokeplat]

I want an Umineko continuation with Nanjo's sick grandchild as the main protagonist.

[@experienced5]

actually, many of what happened in EP7 is truth. Its just that it is not the complete truth. The complete truth is still shrouded in mystery as it was not shown in EP8.

[@shadowthelegend100]

The catbox will remain forever closed May it rest in peace unmolested by the red truth

[@yvreux]

The manga actually did show that the truth presented in EP7 was the single truth that 1998 Ange wanted to know.

[@Lyendith]

Not exactly. Those scenes aren't shown from her point of view, but from Battler's (who isn't the detective in that game). As long as she didn't have a conversation with both of them, it's possible that there was actually only Shannon or Kanon in the room, and Erika paid no attention to it (since she was already fixated on Natsuhi).

[@LoveFor298Yen]

0:14 Zucchini

[@alaras]

Again, look at the conflict between Erika's Red Truth and the one used by Battler and Beatrice. The difference is 1. Erika declares herself "The 18th Human on Rokkenjima." Battler and Beatrice say "Sorry, but there are only 17 people!" Erika's truth is DISCARDED. Result: Erika WAS on Rokkenjima, even as a human. However, corpses are no longer people. They are corpses.

[@pokeplat]

Exactly, but it's not as easy as you make it sound. Witches can always refuse to say something in red, and I highly doubt Bern would give out the solution to a game that isn't hers just because a piece that she summoned asked her to say it in red. If it did somehow come to that, then yes she couldn't say it the truth. The mystery is going to stay in that catbox, however, until Ryukushi tells us what went down on Rokkenjima.

[@melissawickersham9912]

Rosatrice believers, why do you want to blame Rosa as a culprit? Why do you dislike Yasu?

[@ea6102]

idk how people believe in rosatrice after yasutrice was confirmed in the manga

[@tobislemonfreak]

awesome!

[@marin0the0magus]

Why does everyone say this? Kinzo's body also count. He's dead, but he has a body! and if he counted and shanon and kanon weren't the same person, there would be 18 people.

[@jedah9]

(blue) until ep8, its knowed that ushiromiya battler is not the son of ushiromiya asumu, and there are some strange circumstances about he´s birth(blue), that cut down the Knox 10, until ep8, all theory about that can be explained unless other theories overcome, that the function of the catbox

[@alaras]

Wrong. Add up the NAMES. You get 19. Take away Kinzo, because he's dead months before the game starts, and you get 18. Erika is thus the 18th Human, because Kinzo is ZERO. Then, Erika is denied, and there are only 17 people, because "a corpse is not a person anymore"

[@AirahsELL]

Red text doesn't work in KZbin, and even so, that's a theory. You'd have to declare it in blue. I can declare the following in gold: R07 said the Yasu theory is correct.

[@healthya7975]

Cool

[@Meister9Neo]

@seieireppa SPOILERALTER SPOILERALERT SPOILERALERT DON'T READ, BEFORE FINISHING EP 7 OF THE VNs Yes i know, although Gaap was more like an "imaginary friend" than 1 of the "personalities". i just added Leon because it was 1 of Yasu's "possible" personalities. SPOILERALTER SPOILERALERT SPOILERALERT DON'T READ, BEFORE FINISHING EP 7 OF THE VNs

[@antoniogarcia1991]

thx

[@hoby19]

Yeah, but a dead body is still being a human, and Kinzo's body is still in the island, so, if Erika is added, she would be the 19 human in Rokkenjima, but she claims to be the 18th human. And using the red truth, both Battle and Beatrice claims that even if she joins them, there are only 17 people. This means that without counting Erika there are only 17 humans in Rokkenjima, and since that Kinzo is dead, there's just 16 living humans.

[@gaubanimation7336]

hoby19

[@winar1993]

I see both Beatrice and Yasu as singers. No a single song from episode 7 that I don't like.

[@Lyendith]

That was in Episode 6. :þ And yes, Erika is awesome anyway.

[@Fazz321]

Katakiri Rekka circle: CLOSED/UNDERGROUND Caution, almost ungooglable.

[@多すぎる推し]

ベアト美しい......

[@mrbobspongeful]

Will was pretty clear though. =D

[@moniuce]

siiiiiii letra...

[@marin0the0magus]

How come? Red truth is red truth, it's what happened. And besides, Kinzo is counted as people in EP 3, by Eva. "6 people: Kinzo, Kumasawa, Kanon, (3 others) are dead!"

[@Meister9Neo]

!!!!! SPOILERS !!!!! Funny to think that Beatrice, Claire, Shannon, Kanon, Yasu and Lion are one and the same person... or better said... "one yet many"^^ /SPOILERS

[@RaidONE4theONE]

yeah, i want to know too. :I

[@moniuce]

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii letra en ronmanji

[@alaras]

At that point, Erika's existence had not yet been denied. Only at the point of denial can she no longer be counted as a person.

[@alaras]

That's because it isn't. If I were Will, I would order Bernkastel to repeat the following in red: "Yasu is the true culprit." She wouldn't be able to do it!

[@AirahsELL]

The Yasu theory is basically the accepted theory at this point, since R07 pretty much outright stated it to be the correct version. Yasu herself is...well, she's half the cast of the series, but physically, she's only three people. Basically, the pony theory is true, and everyone was trolled into thinking R07 knew what he was doing when he wrote it.

[@作成アカウント-i7z]

つづく…。

[@alaras]

Then I'll declare this in blue: "Umineko is more like a computer game than a novel, and R07 is the final boss. The "official explanation" is meant to be judged according to the rules, Will's solutions, and the red truths."

[@mrbobspongeful]

Blue stake to pierce the illusion of Shkannon =D Knox 10th- "It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues."

[@acdenton5726]

Blue truth invalid. Plenty of clues present themselves. in Episode 1, Battler (our protagonist) never saw Kanon and Shannon together at the same time. and in episode 2 and onwards, before the murders, Only Kanon and Shannon are shown to have seen Beatrice.

[@ceoofbrunestud5894]

Bob Sponge You are incompetent

[@作成アカウント-i7z]

はてなを叫ぶだけー「？」

[@GoMesZ123]

isn't yasu theory like . . 100% true, i mean, episode 7 just say that straight, at least when it comes to shkannon . .

[@alaras]

No, Kinzo's body does NOT count. This is because "Kinzo is dead at the start of all games." Blue Truth: If you are dead before the game begins, your body doesn't count!

[@jensmith1291]

The first few seconds sound like that one corpse party song

[@tommasotopa7395]

Who sung this? She sounds like Satoshi!

[@tommasotopa7395]

And kanon

[@anttiruuskanen7126]

Why did you reply to your own comment instead of just editing it?

[@tommasotopa7395]

@@anttiruuskanen7126 why not?

[@Dezsr]

Katakiri Rekka

[@tommasotopa7395]

@@Dezsr thanks!

[@antoniogarcia1991]

who sings this?

[@engrel]

Katakiri Rekka

[@alaras]

That which is accepted, or the "Gold truth", is not necessarily that which is correct. I declare the following in red: "It is both possible and more correct to explain the murders WITHOUT Yasu's involvement."

[@pokeplat]

"R07 pretty much outright stated it to be the correct version." I don't see any red saying that the Yasu theory is true.

[@ea6102]

I know this comment is old but they confirmed it in the manag

[@alaras]

Erika Furudo also acknowledges them as two separate people with the Detective's Authority AND objective perspective (Red Truth equivalent) in EP5 and EP6, by conversing with both at the same time. Magic cannot occur in Furudo's presence outside of the Meta World. Also, EP7 is nothing but a collection of Bernkastel's speculations. It has no bearing on the truth.

[@alaras]

They can't. Game six, a red truth from Beatrice declares that the number of persons equals the number of BODIES. Nothing else may be used to count the number of persons/people.

[@alaras]

Again, refer to my previous statement. "Until a person's non-existence is confirmed, it is possible to speak of them in red OR blue with impunity. Furthermore, at that time, to the knowledge of all Rokkenjima inhabitants, the being named Erika Furudo DID NOT EXIST! Further still, Erika's existence HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN IN RED! Therefore, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT ERIKA WAS A FICTIONAL ENTITY, AND NEVER EXISTED ON ROKKENJIMA AS A LIVING BEING, AND THUS NEVER DIED ON ROKKENJIMA!"

[@alaras]

There's one other thing you need to consider: KNOX'S FIRST! "Yasu" wasn't introduced until Ep. 7, regardless of Shkanon claims. Ep. 7 could be a grand deception, and you'd never know it. Honestly, did you really expect Ryukishi to make it that easy?

[@nogigin9790]

alaras Except for the fact that he confirmed SHKanontrice...

[@nogigin9790]

And Yasu isn't confirmed to be real as of the events of Rokkenjima. If you go by the magic side, s/he is Beatrice BEFORE the Shkanontrice split, so s/he no longer exists. Claire St. Verneaux is a character you should look at more closely. Lion, too.

[@Ryokusa3110]

The full name is sayo yasuda, shannon tell george that her real name is sayo im ep 1 (Sorry for the bad english is not my first lenguage)

[@destielsciam8924]

really shannon said her real name right in the 1st episode to george, that is your argument is invalid, the character was introduced at the beginning, so everything is ok.

[@alaras]

No. In fact, the last two Red Truths in the Sixth Game guarantee that the Shkanontrice theory, and the Yasu theory altogether, can not work in any way, shape, or form. Erika IS the 18th HUMAN, but she isn't counted as a PERSON. This is because, in reality, she died on the shores of Rokkenjima without anyone ever finding her, if she even washed up at all. There was never any miracle at all.

[@alaras]

And one of those other people just happens to be SHANNON! Shannon + Kanon = two persons!

[@MasterAlucardGV]

Yasu wrote ep 1-2, battler wrote 3-6

[@alaras]

There is no Yasu.

[@Vadim_Slastihin]

Ryu07 sad himself that it is all true. And manga prives ut, because it was developed under his watch.

[@chidorial]

Spoilers, like everything else here: Shannon is Kanon

[@alaras]

No. The Yasu theory has too many holes to work. YASU is the fantasy! In fact, you could construct a more plausible scenario with Rosa as the culprit, George as a secondary culprit, and Nanjo as the only WILLING accomplice!

[@ceoofbrunestud5894]

Explaing yourself goat.

[@anttiruuskanen7126]

Goddamn if this doesn't want to make play this game... Too bad the game is WAY too long and tedious to slog through... I guess i'll just enjoy the god-tier music and read all the comments. That way i'll learn all of the main plot points without having to bother myself.

[@rebornotherlan]

It’s a great read you should give it a chance.