Korea v Germany GOLD Men's sabre teams Kazan 2014 World Fencing Championships

This is the final of the men's sabre teams at the 2014 World Fencing Championships in Kazan, Russia, between Korea and Germany.
This video has been edited from the original live feed for clarity and searchability.
If you want to learn more about this kind of thing, check us out at sydneysabre.com

[@BlueXephosrule]

So I am really high and I have no idea why I am watching this.

[@JeppahWL]

same man, got lost on the internet again

[@ryanfinch6856]

Haha thought I was the only one

[@Khizzle007]

One more checking in.

[@BlueXephosrule]

the best part is you scrolled down on the comments....

[@Noah_McCurry]

Yup same dude

[@Lionbug]

Korea vs. Germany is like the ultimate match of perfectionists xD

[@aaronkim7924]

what? Korean student aren't allowed to speak in school? are you joking

[@dickiewongtk]

No, it would be Japan vs Germany.

[@Kobekola]

Cough cough NORTH Korea*

[@jackjazzhands2357]

Thanks for the flowers XD

[@williw.5815]

@@ahamuffin4747 I'd like to point out that perfection does not necessariky come from a place of strictness but rather devotion and virtuosity. I understand that this is something eastern cultures such as Korea are known for instilling into young people, which however does not constitute that a western culture such as the German one could not accomplish such a virtue as our systems are more passion and reward driven when it comes to sports. Some things also come from heritage and are thereby more culturally embedded and supported.

[@tpat5420]

these guys are fucking fast...

[@sydneysabrecentre]

+T Pat This is late in the day when they're tired. You should see them in the early rounds.

[@ionlymadethistoleavecoment1723]

Why was I stuck watching swimming every single day of the olympics? Where was this?

[@shibeyyy]

this is not the olympics

[@jamesgrist1101]

if the mass media put this on the TV everyday then families with 3 to 8 year old boys would have knifes sticking out their pets and siblings.

[@PalashaGabarra]

@@jamesgrist1101 1, that's not true, and 2, it shouldn't matter. The media isn't your child's babysitter or educator. If you think certain content is unfit for children, it is YOUR responsibility that your child doesn't view said content. It is not the rest of the world's responsibility to ensure everything is childproof.

[@Spynug]

Fencing is one of my favorite sports to play. But to watch it's like ballerinas with swords... coming soon to a theater near you!

[@sydneysabrecentre]

That's just Gu.

[@oneshadowdragon]

Agree.

[@yoboychilli8173]

wtf that guy is named won woo young if he wins the match he is gonna be like i won woooo!!!

[@reemshitfriri1147]

Nick Bunyun uhm, are you making fun of his name? bc your not in the right position in saying that.

[@ClockworkTheFrog]

lol xD

[@mincloudmincloud]

Reemshit Friri I know this is late, and maybe he’s not in the position to say that- but as a Korean I found that hilarious

[@DukeCyrus]

I love seeing all the hema fanboys ranting and raving about how hema is superior and fencing is stupid. If you don't like fencing, don't watch a fencing video, there's plenty of hema videos on yt. Though I do also adore hema.

[@jaircortazar1320]

Korea .... Great job! I really like the way you guys approach fencing against taller guys. Very nice, quick, and clean. Great fencing!

[@brozomicki-sothe307]

Now they are the taller guys

[@suda2849]

The HEMA people here need to be more respectful. I've done both HEMA and fencing and I respect both of them. Sabre may look like two people attacking each other with sticks but anyone who has done it would know it is much more than that. Èpee is the best in fencing imo, but I like fencing and respect it as a sport. HEMA needs to respect that fencing is a sport, not a historical recreation, chill the fuck out and stop being the hipsters of swordfighting.

[@itsokay7989]

Hema folks are just insecure in general, which is why they always show up in fencing comment sections making the same nonsensical statements because it's an actual sport and not their roleplaying experience

[@eoagr1780]

@@itsokay7989 both are sports. Chess is also consider a sport.As long as two or more individuals can compete under a set of rules it's a sport. (Beer pong can be a sport, lol). I don't understand what would be wrong about trying to y emulate historical duels, especial if someone is really found of history and swords.

[@cmw12]

True... I would love to see high level fencers try HEMA too. An athlete is an athlete, and Olympic fencing still instills good basic instincts with respect to distance, timing, tactics, and reading one’s opponent.

[@martialfarts4509]

As a HEMAist myself, I despise the more stuck up of my group. If you’re cracking a joke at the expense of either side, fair enough, but if you’re genuinely shitting on any style you’re an asshole period. Just a few months ago there was a kendoka shitting on HEMA in a video of kendo v HEMA, so I can imagine how frustrating it is for you guys, and on behalf of my community I apologise for the assholes.

[@reemshitfriri1147]

honestly won woo young and nicolas limbach at the last leg were so cute squatting and screaming "OHHHH!" whenver they hit eat other but then the refree says it was hit the same time lmao

[@hundochkatter]

Congratulations Nico! A little bit late, I just found this film clip. Hope to see you and Anna in our home again soon. And hopefulle next summer at the w....;)

[@therationalcollection2999]

I have to say.. this is more chaotic and harder to watch than most HEMA styles.. im suprised it made it to the olympics

[@sydneysabrecentre]

It was always at the Olympics. Legacy inclusion I guess 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@theunknownawesome4796]

Why,I didn’t expect German to win ,I bet Korea would win .this is amazing

[@donaldbadowski290]

At 41:57 you can definitely see a forward crossover.

[@cmw12]

All you HEMA people need to slow your roll. True, modern fencing is basically devoid of any martial content. That doesn't mean it isn't CRAZY fun and incredibly challenging. Sabre is bit broken, and many suggestions have been made for how to fix it. Most recently, the starting distance was lessened, giving rise to the "Russian box of death". This is asinine, IMO. Timing was also tweaked, so that double hits are more common, the intent being to punish fencers who like to just ignore right-of-way and sneak in quick counterattacks. This rule makes a bit more sense, but just a bit. A sabre fencer named Tim Morehouse proposed that it should operate like tennis. One fencer starts with right-of-way for five touches, then the other fencers gets it for the next five, etc. You have to win by at least two. (That's the gist, anyway. I'm sure I've gotten something wrong.) While these rules push the game even farther from its martial origin, they make it far less dull. Nearly every touch is fun to watch, and strategy comes to the fore. The point, friends, is that Olympic fencing is not a martial art, and shouldn't be judged as one. If you think it looks easy, give it a try - I promise it isn't. You must use your brain and body in nearly equal measure, and there's always more to learn. And don't stop (or even start, necessarily) with sabre. My primary weapon is foil. You have the same right-of-way rules as sabre, but the bladework is a bit more interesting IMO. If right-of-way ain't your bag, pick up an epee. Did I mention how UNBELIEVABLY FUN it is? Those of you wishing to learn how to survive a duel SHOULD consider HEMA. I tried it for a while, and it is fascinating.

[@PieLovesPi]

The rules can be more martial and still be fun and full of strategy. Right of way is a non starter for me, at least in it's current form. I don't have a good way to discourage double hits but I'm sure something better exists. Since you brought it up, I did fence epee, for two years. By far the most reasonable weapon out of the olympic trio but now that I've been fencing heavier weapons, up to and including longswords, I find that even epee only emphasized a chunk of the body mechanics needed to wield a sword in earnest. I don't need the sport to be better, I've found I enjoy HEMA far more and I don't think I could go back if I tried. I still want the sport to be better and the way to do that in my eyes would be to make it more martial, that's where the sport came from and what made it interesting in the first place. I would also challenge you that saber is any kind of fun to watch right now. I'm hardly a layman and I would have a better chance of determining who wins a point if I guessed. The idea that you only need to tap them with any part of the saber to score is ludicrous, as well, and I bet we now have the technology to create a weapon with an actual cutting edge (blunted, of course) and a way to measure that appropriate force was applied. A more accurate saber would probably fix right of way all on its own, too. I know I'm probably shouting into the void but it makes me feel better.

[@cmw12]

GeneralHysterics returning to this video after 2yrs... Anyway, your idea for a gadget that senses the force applied was tried and rejected. That doesn’t mean a better one couldn’t be built today. The challenge, as always, is to retain the aspects of the sport that make it so fun while still rewarding proper technique and tactics. I’d argue Olympic Fencing is too far toward the sport end of the spectrum, while Kendo occupies the other. Someone should “electrify” HEMA...

[@emlynlewis2830]

A sport like this needs Virtual Reality, there's no justification to go back to the gladiator days and have real life sword fighting; but people fighting to the death with virtual swords controlled by their bodies, me gusta.

[@Em-ii4zg]

Lol that's fucking hilarious, let's start a fund me

[@stevedalfonso1020]

Closest thing I know to that right now is Rec room sword fighting.

[@jh0330u]

47:45 I thought I was watching power rangers lol

[@bakedhawaii]

Yea

[@marcpacifier8902]

I just got lost and watched this intense championship. . .then in the end it said 2014 ??? hahaha I thought I was watching the latest stuff lol

[@jsxxxchewie]

1:35 "I absolutely love men's sabre." Oh really??

[@Spynug]

Omg lol

[@M-.-M]

Well he was saying that he admits that as a foilist

[@andressen]

nice comment at 25:40 "well that's a well executed parade riposte: bang bang - have that... sneaky"

[@DMJ94UC]

Its funny how at a certain level of skill any martial art is devoid of any elegance. This looks like to boys running at each other with sticks, even though it is much more than that.

[@lloveComedy]

My grandfather who taught me use to tell me as a kid: 'Martial arts doesn't meant to be pretty. It is just so to attract more students.'

[@zinqtable1092]

Well with so much skill of course they naturally gain much speed. The shit on tv is fake.

[@Igoxz]

Well not really, it's not about the level of skill, when you get to competitive levels all the elegance goes out the window, kendo is the perfect example of this.

[@DesertDuc]

This literally IS "boys running at each other with sticks". The objective is to strike first, with no regard to your own "safety". Speed and precision is all that is needed. Look at HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) for more "elegance". The sword fencing done there is scored such that if you receive contact during or immediately after your good hit, you are punished. Sacrificing yourself to get a point, or "doubling" can result in disqualification, such as both contestants lunging at the same time and both receiving hits to the torso at nearly the same time. The round is not scored and a penalty is added to BOTH contestants with usually 3 penalties being a DQ. Another example is if they throw a downward cut for your head and rather than parry and riposte you just thrust into their chest. Maybe you make contact first and get the point, but because his hit still landed a "kill shot" on you, both of you have "died". Doubling usually only applies to kill shots. Receiving an "afterblow", or getting struck with minor contact shortly after scoring, would indicate a lack of proper defense and deducts a point from the scoring contestant. For example, you thrust and get a solid hit but they make a cut to your leg. You still score, but because you left yourself vulnerable you don't get full points. This way the emphasis is not on speed, but more on proper understanding and application of martial arts technique. It's a more true representation of the combat sport, I suppose, than competition foil fencing or Kendo could ever hope to be. Watch the video above and look at all the slow-motion replays and see how many times both foils make contact with a contestant. Imagine if every one of those wasn't scored, how many points were really earned in this contest?

[@danielkronos]

Remember that Kenjutsu is also practiced, not just kendo.

[@jaidenclark6592]

Fencing is actually really cool

[@nikatherat2276]

Bro but the Korean team is CONSTANTLY over the dang line. Like every dang time!!!

[@vivrs9109]

OH MY GOD THERE IT IS THE FENCE!

[@Nikolapoleon]

It's not really any fun when the game is over in a single exchange. Not to mention they always both hit directly and at nearly the same time, so the victory always seems arbitrary. I'm realizing now that I'd much rather see amateur duels, wherein the combatants actually fight each other, instead of just charging at each other to see who gets first jab.

[@jsxxxchewie]

Good evaluation. It would be very interesting if they would "test the water" a bit so we could see a few exchanges before they go for the win, but at this level it's only about getting the first strike.

[@dthompsont3796]

Montpelier Montgomery I agree, there is no echange of blocking and striking. they both just attack.

[@GOKidsTV]

Sabre fighting isn't the same as Foil and Epee. It originates from the Cavalry, charging at full speed on horseback, where they'd get one strike at the enemy as they pass at high speed. Hence the style of Sabre fighting.

[@tellurianamystic9424]

Not really. There is a long history of saber fighting and use in war, and not always from horseback. This "style" of saber play is the result of the rules and sport nature of it. They are really just playing a game of tag.

[@StairwayToAsgard]

So HEMA

[@angelachoi8021]

Go Korea!!! Don't be so rude guys!

[@radsunride]

OMGI WANT THOSE KOREA TIDE PODS SUIT

[@erikm9768]

its pretty boring that they are allowed to hit each other and only the fastest win, in nature we would call such an event a draw...

[@Stargazingbearlive]

It's based on a "Right of Way" system, and in the case that the ref cant decide who has it it's considered a draw and no points are awarded.

[@redact207]

Thought this was a Daft Punk video

[@Tv1Apple]

Guys, with all my respect, but have you heard of full HD??? 360 p!!! C'mon!!!

[@sydneysabrecentre]

***** -_-

[@Gervaj79]

This kid is so spoiled.

[@eoagr1780]

That would actual be intresting to see.

[@Oxide_Shadow]

(Watching a fencing match for the first time) When does a no-call occur? When there are simultaneous hits and neither side has right of way?

[@RampantUrsusArctos]

If both fencers begin advancing at the same time and at the same pace, neither has the right of way as of yet. If they each other at that point at the same time (in the span of 120 ms) it would be a no-call. However, there are a lot of ways to lose their even right of way status like lunging without hitting (a lunge is considered over when the front foot lands) or even if your opponent's arm is extended before your own during a simultaneous hit.

[@tomaszlosinski875]

The minor details are what makes sabre so challenging at this level. Anyone could just charge at their opponent but if the opponent is good they will get the hit every single time by sticking their arm out quicker or taking a quick step back to make you miss. I've been in a few situation where every time I met my opponent in the middle he would get the point so I was forced to change tactics to be more defensive.

[@beetlebumm]

take a shot every time Kim crosses over

[@FatBestialSwan]

"The weapon seems to need medical attention as well." 😂

[@user-pg1gg1fk7p]

If you are high it is not mean that you are the best

[@user-nx8jc2pm1w]

Evertime a attack some attack that couldn't see the movement

[@jack7997]

new to fencing here, what exactly is unorthodox about the koreans? or maybe i should ask what is orthodox??

[@tuxedopig7940]

jack7997 sorry for the late reply, its basically there form and how they do there parry riposte, notice when they do an attack there knees are high and not pressed on the ground.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

They move too fast and they're not white. Wish I was joking.

[@Sonatherogue]

What is "magic spray"?

[@johanfriedel3458]

Sonatherogue the stem cells of abortions

[@Azami0001]

nooby question but do they must lunge early in the round? or are they allowed to do a stepback?

[@sydneysabrecentre]

They can do whatever they like. Once you've got the momentum, though, you've got a massive advantage, and making one of these guys miss once they've taken over the attack is freaking hard. They're just playing the safest moves most of the time.

[@Azami0001]

sydneysabrecentre ah thank you very much!

[@jlp71222]

I don't know a lot about fencing and saw some fencing through an anime before, I got curious and look through some real life fencing. Then got disappointed because its not as cool as I thought, kinda imagined that It looked like some awesome fantasy sword battle or something.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Pro tip: Few things look IRL as good as they do in anime.

[@Sara-vq7mi]

its pretty cool to play it though, really good sport

[@dahuterschuter]

Okay so this but give them lightsabers and lower the lighting a bit.

[@herbertaloysreinders5883]

MY SPORT

[@lemongrabracing71]

Why was he carded at 4:55? was his body cord to long?

[@MultiMYLOS]

MotoJynx false start

[@hplovecraft3112]

Silver Chariot!

[@christianalbertjahns2577]

I watch foil fencing with probably most viewer (2012 Olympic final) and there's no "this is not a sword-fighting" kind of comments. Poor you who fences with saber

[@Sara-vq7mi]

yeah..

[@cedricmochonacho]

So I don't know this sport at all and I have a few questions. Are these guys well known in the fencing community? Also what's HEMA? I see a lot of talk about it in the comments

[@cedricmochonacho]

Also what's the difference between fencing and sabre fighting?

[@wickedwonderland9831]

1. Yes they are pretty famous. Not as famous as they could be because they don't have time to advertise themselves as much as for example Race Imboden does. 2. HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts and includes everything that has to do with sword fighting, but I'm by no means an expert. 3. The weapon used here is called sabre because of its handle. If you watch closely you can see that it does resample a historical saber's handle quite a bit. But otherwise saber fighting should refer to fighting with a historical saber, because this is sabre fencing. Even though this is a very late answer I hope I could help.

[@joelbachmann10]

The narrator sound weird

[@MrJaggerc]

The announcer saying Bongil GU instead of GU Bongil or GU B makes me sad😞

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

Certainly not like fencing in the movies...

[@FunkyRL]

why do they call the german guy by his last name and the korean guy as just..."korean guy"

[@kazuya5976]

Foreign names can be hard to memorize I guess

[@overlordlucs6007]

Well they called him Kim as well, which is the Korean guys last name...

[@FunkyRL]

true their last names are pretty hard to pronounce

[@overlordlucs6007]

His last name is Kim, KIM!!! Not hard to pronounce.

[@FunkyRL]

softan exactly, thats why i posed the question. I guess in some cases its either easy or hard to say their names.

[@gigglesilly17]

9:46 that parry tho

[@Jsvkkie]

i dont know anything about fencing but, where do they have to hit the oponent to get a score?

[@DasManiac99]

They hit the torso, the arms and/or the mask

[@prcutey4u1]

Basically the waist up. You cant hit the waist down, cause it wont count as a point. Also, in fencing, you cant cross your feet, what ever you do dont cross your feet. You can break it, and its illegal in fencing. Especially in sabre. WHat it does is to prevent injuries and to prevent them to run at each other and either start it off too quick, or to injury each other. In "On Guard", you must stay like that the entire game, even when Advancing and Retreating (Sorry I cant spell XD)

[@dhbroussard89]

Fighting is built into the Koreans as the commentator stated, Mongolian Warrior DNA...

[@mym2259]

I'm new to this sport, but does the green light mean that he's won that round or lost?

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Green means Germany hit. Red means Korea hit.

[@mym2259]

+sydneysabrecentre ah, thank you so much

[@creatifetudes8553]

😊🤘 Germany

[@mischievousone9999]

What they need is a circle arena with heavy padding armor padding and sabers. That gives more variety in available technique outside straight line fencing. And a point system based on not only point of contact, but ability to guard oneself from the opponent's afterblow. A true swordsman is trained to protect himself both before, during and after his own attack. We could have not just sabers, but a whole variety of flexible safety oriented swords with blunted edges and points. It would help to demonstrate even further the culture of the participating countries if they are allowed to prove themselves with the swordsmanship belonging to their country's history, and pit it against that of another's. Imagine a man from germany trained on the use of a zweiihandler against someone from Scotland trained on the use of a claymore? Or a japanese man trained on Kendo and draw techniques against an Italian rapier fencer. It would be an amazing celebration of diversity and sportsmanship.

[@wickedwonderland9831]

Nice idea for a festival. Can't make it a sport though. Since wireless scoring systems are on the rise it actually is discussed whether or not the strip is out rated.

[@linajurgensen4698]

The german guys are hot af.😊

[@sydneysabrecentre]

This is a correct fact.

[@artemida4963]

8:25

[@subeomjang8371]

R O Korea 대한민국

[@TheKiwiCutter]

Too much Fiora...

[@callsofscv]

Bongil had way better footwork than Hartung.

[@thecinemagician]

Might have to watch the video at 3/4 speed. Came here after watching markiplier learn a bit of epeé.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

All you need to know is that Won Wooyoung is happiness.

[@kurtiswithakayy]

So which team is Germany and which is Korea?

[@reconboy0454]

says on their masks silly

[@BrandonMcBadass]

Lol Damn Germany doesn't play by the rules 😂 getting all of the cards and that Bennedikt Wagner guy kept pushing the Korean off in the beginning. Chill 😁

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Wagner is a sweetie pie. He also broke one of the channel admins' legs. We think that's just how he displays affection.

[@mr.Ragers]

meh is there some real sword fighting footage they're pretty much sprinting towards each other playing catch

[@tellurianamystic9424]

HEMA fencing.

[@tomaszlosinski875]

Don't think of fencing as sword fighting like in a historic sense. If you want to watch sword fighting, put on pirates of the Caribbean or watch anime or something and if you want to try it yourself there's HEMA. It's hard to appreciate fencing if you haven't done it before or don't know the rules or skill involved but don't be so dismissive of it.

[@sabelfechter7136]

How would you react if a screaming 2m Korean jumps at you with a sabre with meter long lunges doing a big swing? I used the same ruleset for military sabres and its the most frightening thing ever, split second decision or your done, those comments here have no clue what their talking about.

[@sama2903]

Captain Hook is not impressed

[@cubangoat60]

Whats preparation ????

[@Em-ii4zg]

Hard to explain, sort of when you hit the opponent while he's still "preparing" to hit. Double lights don't matter he can still be preparing.

[@eoagr1780]

Point scored when the arm of the opponent isn't extendent. It's difficult and risky to pull but awsome to get.

[@Lionbug]

worst commentators ever too :/

[@lennyerdody]

Szabo is Hungarian TRIGGERED

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Leonard SoSlav His father is Romanian and he was born in Germany. But yeah, ok, triggered bro.

[@wickedwonderland9831]

Both his parents are Romanian but both he and his brother are born in Germany. His father actually is the main trainer at their club.

[@windhelm7375]

what kind of sabre are they using? aren't sabres shaped more like a broadsword than an epee? and why aren't these sabres curved?

[@cptn_n3m012]

Fencing sabre have a special handle and the tip of the blade isn't a push button. They are lighter and thinner than fencing épées

[@arucane]

How is this fun to watch? The exchanges last like 2 seconds

[@cptn_n3m012]

That is saber. If you look épée or foil it last much longer. But even in saber it is actually very elegant to denote small modifications, even the slightest movement to gain the right of way

[@sabelfechter7136]

For fencers time runs *much* slower. Theres a lot happening thats hard to spot without years of experience. Fencing is insanely fun, but watching it is hard and never the same. Also its NOT a movie.

[@AlyxGlide]

what's with the fist pumping

[@RampantUrsusArctos]

Sometimes after getting a point that could be hard to call you can act confident to sway the referee's call.

[@intellectualhybrid2]

i wanna see these guys do HEMA

[@cmw12]

If this is a sincere desire, me too! If this is sarcasm, it is misplaced. While modern sabre is no longer a martial art, the qualities the make a great sabreur/se are the same qualities necessary for rapier, longsword, dagger, etc. You need athleticism, the ability to learn technique quickly, and a mind for tactics and strategy. These guys have all that in spades.

[@tuxedopig7940]

PoisonedHive late comment, but I'm a sabre fencer and I rrly wanna learn some real Hema or swordfighting for killing not sport or art, althought sabre would help on you on martial arts, like aggresiveness tempo and feints, besides that its just a sport.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

So do I. that would be awesome.

[@tl1326]

what the hell is a hema

[@TiboFPS]

Jesus Kim is a screamer

[@michae976]

Idk about the call at 44:30. Totally male parry from Hartung.

[@Ascalis1]

Wow. I gotta see a female parry. That would be amazing.

[@michae976]

I meant mal lol

[@andresalles6627]

hand injury you say.... drama I say

[@franceschow4414]

Pretty sure it's legit. Kim's had trouble with his thumb since a training injury in April.

[@ShakeMcBlunt]

+Andre Salles I was thinking how, someone from his crew went on to put the dramatic music on, to inspire him lol

[@sydneysabrecentre]

His thumb was fractured. So, yeah.

[@lakshen47]

It seem to me that if you give these guys a real sword, they both die? Why isn't getting out of reach of the other without being hit back part of the sport?

[@tellurianamystic9424]

Correct, it is just tag. Whoever touches first wins, even though both would actually be dead. Try HEMA fencing instead.

[@wickedwonderland9831]

Surprisingly we also thought of that, random expert on the internet. It's just that's not the German tactics. We're generally speaking pretty big with long arms and legs so it makes no sense to back away because the oponent most likely has shorter arms which is your advantage.

[@sabelfechter7136]

Why has Hema the *same* amount of doubles then? Im doing it since years, and its not the slightest bit better, and the average skilllevel is mediocre.

[@lakshen47]

@@sabelfechter7136 I'm not asking about hema.

[@lakshen47]

@@wickedwonderland9831 Didn't see that reply, I'd wager Germans mostly fought duels against other Germans, so that makes no sense. And I'm not an expert for asking a question, am I?

[@mr.smitherine1913]

his pronunciation hurts

[@troylittrell6199]

nope! foils, not sabers!

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Troy Littrell rightio, random internet guy

[@christianalbertjahns2577]

Considering one of the meaning of "foil" is training sword. This is certainly a foil for sabre

[@xa1313]

So basically they always both hit and whoever screams the loudest gets the point. Got it!

[@reconboy0454]

SQUID GA

[@justinv9413]

I thought sabers were curved. Are they not?

[@kimchibonfire1728]

"Although sabres are typically thought of as curved-bladed slashing weapons, those used by the heavy cavalry of the 17th to 19th centuries often had straight and even double-edged blades more suitable for thrusting." - straight from wikipedia. Also in this case, sabre is a type sword used for fencing.

[@widumboise2169]

Its called sabres because of the rule set and method of attack. Slashing is allowed in sabres.

[@widumboise2169]

Its called sabres because of the rule set and method of attack. Slashing is allowed in sabres.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Some are, some aren't. Straight ones were always a thing, and they're easy to control.

[@ceedeeplayer118]

are you serious? they're not even trying to parry hits! the only times they do the "blade" is just not resistant enough to keep on and it flexes torward the "swordsman", someone should learn HEMA before writing the olympic games' rules

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Boy, this sure would be an insightful comment if we were watching HEMA. Also, I'd invite the commenter to try parrying an attack from Kim Junghwan and see how they go.

[@ceedeeplayer118]

sydneysabrecentre oh well, I've stopped watching after 10 minutes, I admit I lost a little my mind with this "modern fencing-hema fencing" thing. anyway, parry a hit would be possible with a proper blade, I'm not yet enough good at fencing so for me is impossible to even have a match with my teacher, but I do know modern fencing is this fast only because the sportsmen don't care much about parryng, they only wanna jump on the opponent... these aren't the so called "ignorant hits" because they're well controlled and other stuff, but I will still keep my mind about how bad modern fencing blades (those electric rods) are, they give no opportunity to apply some more thinked moves because it's too hard to predict where the blade is gonna fly around.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

CeeDee Player If you're not interested in learning then I'm afraid I can't help you, dude. It's perfectly possible to parry with a sabre, and these guys are doing a ton of it. Those blades are a lot stiffer than they look on the slow-mo. Complex second-intention bladework is a thing, although it's not a huge feature in this match because they're playing a different tactical game with more of a focus on distance. Check out Won v Szilagyi at the 2014 Budapest grand prix for a good example.

[@ceedeeplayer118]

sydneysabrecentre still not convinced about modern fencing, I've seen casualties where the rods even broke in half only by clashing each other, this means they're just like weak whips (the rods weren't unknown and badly made ones, but at an olympic level), parry would be still to risky.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

CeeDee Player ...because swords never break in combat. *facepalm*

[@kmsberserker3330]

can some explain how this is hard? I'm not trying to be an ass but it just seems who ever lunges first wins?

[@kmsberserker3330]

like i siad not trying to be an ass. im not saying I could do this shit im force over speed so i would suck at this! but if u put "Max Hartung" vs. "Max Hartung" I'm betting the one that lunges at the other not afraid of being hit is gana win over the other.

[@kmsberserker3330]

like how do you block a lung? it a sword of kinds so even know it may bend it not likely to break so easy so its not really a possibility to Perry like with a real sword which weights more. it will just bend back and get a hit anyway as long as the shaft stays on course no?

[@sydneysabrecentre]

"it's not really a possibility to parry like with a real sword" Yeah, no. That's just not true. The Germans won this match on parries. If you do it properly, your opponent isn't going to hit.

[@kmsberserker3330]

+sydneysabrecentre I only watched like 10 mins. can you point out what part of the match that was happening at?

[@user-nx8jc2pm1w]

why would german won if parries

[@TheAmoscokkie]

The big size guy has a bigger body, easier target.

[@MrAkeboshiWind]

But also longer arms and so more range

[@illusivec]

Longer reach tho.

[@larrybird4502]

if having a smaller body made it easier, the Germany's team would've been smaller lol

[@patrickprejean3530]

How the hell does Kim not get carded for crossing his feet?

[@sydneysabrecentre]

Patrick Prejean Charm. In seriousness, he does get carded for it, quite frequently. It's something he only seems to do when he's really on edge. When he's having a good day it doesn't happen - see the New York Grand Prix.

[@TiboFPS]

+Patrick Prejean He did, it and the point was annulled. If youre referring to his 36th point

[@TheSquidPro]

This isn't even fun to watch.

[@cptn_n3m012]

You dont understand it but it is very elegant when you are trained to seek small game variations

[@Heybudwatsurproblem]

Welp this is more boring than cricket

[@DrDemolition]

rigged judge

[@GratDuForloradeArgumentet]

Wow that is a superdumb sport 🤣 they're not fencing, they are just rushing forward.. one little hit and then it's done

[@povang]

This does not make any sense to me. This is like suicide in actual combat.

[@MuhammadAli-yc3mp]

+Gary Dorgan 😂😂😂youre awesome man

[@StairwayToAsgard]

HEMA

[@sabelfechter7136]

Doing Hema since 10years and its just as suicidal, just that the average skilllevel is drastically lower. Turns out hitting each other with sharp objects isnt healthy, and both are wounded if the tiniest thing go wrong. There are *lots* of doubles recorded in history. Thats why people prefered non lethal duels in armor. You will only see "pretty" fencing *if* one person is a lot better than the other. On the same level its verry small details that take years of experience to spot.

[@hakikatkaur6886]

HEMA!!!!!!!!!

[@Nopicrandom]

This or kendo

[@raptornomad1221]

I prefer kendo/kenjiustu, but you won't see a lot of international competitions like these since it's not a white sport.

[@catsexual3412]

kendo 9000x

[@TheGeehanlolShow]

Kendo wouldn't do good against a fencer though because in a duel 9/10 the guy who can hit faster will win. And with kendo both arms are used so a lot of strikes to the hand/wrist/forearm would debilitate the kendo style sword fighter since they had speed backing them up. If the kendo user had something to protect their fingers they'd do fine but a lot of the times in sabre play or any form of fencing the entire body was fair play. So the kendo user might end up receiving a ton of arm/leg strikes considering the stances and forms they use.

[@catsexual3412]

And the fencer would lose his head.

[@TheGeehanlolShow]

Catsexual Can't take anyone's head off if you're full of holes

[@HupfDole87]

hm thats not really appealing.. in a real swordfight they wouldn win .. too much sport for my taste and too big of a lack of martial arts..

[@MrMiggoH]

I get your point but it's the same in pretty much all the martial arts.

[@Gervaj79]

They wouldn't win? How would you know.

[@HupfDole87]

Ger Vang all they do is make a light tap on anything they can get and thats it.. that would hardly make injuries in a real fight..

[@HupfDole87]

purpleAiPEy oh getting stabbed by a sabre would truely be horrible and probably deadly, not sure though if you know what a sabre is. try googling "sabre" ;) And yes i am quite confident that i could pick a decent weapon -besides firearms- which would outclass an epee with ease.for example a real sword, a twohander maybe, a katana, or a fighting rod. an axe or hammer could be nice as well or a hellebard. a dagger could be difficult though.. or a knuckleweapon .. too short of range, but way more devastating and once you get close enough it would be decided..

[@AKcollision123]

You really don't think that if this was real they wouldn't kill each other? If they hit an artery (which is what you do with a smaller weapon and what they are trained to do) they are for sure dead. Sabres are extremely sharp and with such low weight and medium size can have an effective use at least twice before the swing of an "actual" sword. These men could kill any person they fought with, provided they don't have armor.

[@echos1016]

**POKE** Yay I win, game over. 🙄

[@jerry1027]

sabre is much boring than foil

[@myroninthavong958]

Kim Jong Un vs Adolf Hitler I'm down to watch

[@AdeptArin]

Not funny. Didnt laugh.

[@jamesgrist1101]

modern world-class fencing is pathetic to watch as a sport. there's no point defending, 90% whoever attacks 1st wins. Not an art, barely a sport. Might as well use guns.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

So glad you joined us to share your valuable insight

[@jamesgrist1101]

@@sydneysabrecentre looks like a hit a raw nerve there; that a casual yt watcher can randomly wander across a championship fencing vid and immediatey see the severe problem with modern fencing should tell you something. You lot are too stuck up your own asses, too conservative; you've got an elephant in the room and none of you dare to see it, its damaging your sport. Mod the rules in some way so that actual fencing can happen again, instead of this 'who swipes 1st wins' shite. might as well watch 2 kids play with plastic swords.

[@sydneysabrecentre]

​@@jamesgrist1101 okay so, as a casual YT viewer you may not be aware that we are the weird bomb-throwing-radical club in sabre fencing and are all for modding the rules to make the game more fun. Would love to hear what suggestions you have. One obvious variant we've tried is starting every exchange with one side or the other already in control of the attack, so the opponent has to break that control. Kind of like serve in tennis. It works okay, but it does take out a really huge component of the game, which is the struggle to establish that control at the outset. This "seizing the vorschlag", as the Liechtenauer codex puts it (about longsword, but it basically describes the core of sabre as well), is one of the oldest concerns in any sword-fighting discipline, so getting rid of it completely is a pretty radical step. For us, it's probably too great a loss to what the whole thing is about.

[@jamesgrist1101]

@@sydneysabrecentre 1. head strikes win instantly 2. have different areas of body different scores, and different times limits to retaliate e.g. an abdomen strike gives the fencer whose been struck 1 second to strike back. if he can, then its a draw. some variation of of this should improve the game

[@sydneysabrecentre]

@@jamesgrist1101Zonal scoring is a thing we've looked at doing! It's freaking hard to implement in practice though. The engineering challenges involved in making different zones reliably register (let alone have different cutoff times) are well beyond the budgets associated with the sport, even with a billionaire Russian oligarch sugar-daddy backing things. Not sure what you mean by "win instantly" here, btw. The basic premise in sabre is that all hits "win". The return to the start lines is a respawn.

[@canonfanboy]

Mega langweiliger Sport. ich hoffe in einem Schwertkampf denken die nicht, dass sie was reißen könnten....

[@DasManiac99]

Nobody cares about your opinion about fencing... Übrigens, wer braucht Schwertkampf? Willkommen im 21. Jahrhundert, es gibt Schusswaffen...

[@canonfanboy]

+DasManiac nobody cares about fencing ... siehst du du fragst ja selbst wozu es das gibt

[@Chirotexx]

Dann reih dich wieder zu den Fußball spasten ein - du kann Fechten nur verstehen wenn du es selbst mal gemacht hast

[@RH3D]

What a boring sport to watch

[@duskingsun985]

Then don't watch it.