What Are Front Wides? Why Does Nobody Use Them?!

[@avh700]

I use it for 5.1 audio/surround recordings. It sounds better in front than 360. For movies, it makes everything on screen seem more realistic because of dept-of-field on the sides of the room instead of just in front or above (height). It makes the room appear longer than it really is because the sound does not end with the left or right speaker near the front, it's like there are no walls behind with the wider sound stage.

[@avh700]

Found out it was meant for Dolby Center spread (for large screens that might be extremely wide or anamorphic.

[@hookahb1901]

Well im running all Klipsch (4) RF 7II as fronts, and wides.. (1) RF 64 II Center.... (2) RF 28's as sides..(.2) KLF 20's for rears..(1) 12 inch powered sub. .I do have (4 )R 15 , but for now those on stands get moved to other rooms or outside for listening..This does the trick, and in Multi Channel music my neighbors many acres away can also enjoy it at all hours of the night too...;)

[@damianjackson5055]

I'm currently doing front wides left and right at the moment for the first time. They are all Yamaha NS's 777's, c444's and 333's for a 9.4.4ch speaker system with an upcoming Tonewinner AT300 16ch home theater processor coming soon.

[@adrianbarac3063]

Are you setting the DSU to upmix everything to include Front Wides?

[@whitecrowuk575]

Quik update: on Arcam front wides are used in both 5.1 and Atmos sources and they bring a lot of immersion, where I used to have gaps now it’s filled and makes a massive change. Perfect for people who set fronts but closer than 30 degree to each other and surrounds that are at 110 rather than 90.

[@keyzone72]

When you say that you are using FW with 5.1 and Atmos soundtracks, which upmixer are you using? The Dolby Surround upmixer? Or the DTX neural upmixer? Also, I have heard that if you upmix an Atmos soundtrack to make use of FW via an upmixer, that you now are only using the 7.1 bed Ayer and lose the object oriented night content. What has been your experience?

[@whitecrowuk575]

@@keyzone72 on Arcam I cannot upmix from Atmos via Dolby surround - some Atmos is object based and will use any speakers you have but some poor ones are channel based and they won’t. Also with non Atmos content sometimes it would use front wides sometimes not. It beneficial if you are far away from fronts and have disproportionate gap compared to rear. Otherwise I would say 5.1.4->7.1.4->7.1.6->9.1.6

[@keyzone72]

@@whitecrowuk575 thank you for the reply. Definitely seems hit or miss. In your experience, is there a particular source format you find works best with the upper mixers? In other words, since NATIVE 9.x content is scarce, do you find movies, TV or music (in general) sound “fuller” when using your up mixer? Just trying to gauge your overall experience with your FW setup.

[@damianjackson5055]

Front wide speakers are definitely a step-up from the normal 11.2ch speaker systems to full 13.2 or 15.2ch speaker systems.

[@drummerdoingstuff5020]

What? Lol

[@drummerdoingstuff5020]

I personally sit in the subwoofer enclosure for an immersive experience…

[@TheSuzukik5]

@@drummerdoingstuff5020 😂

[@danielwander605]

I’m wired for it as of a few weeks ago. Waiting for the DTSX Pro update to my processor and then going to buy the speakers. Some Dolby Atmos content natively uses wides, and the rest is pinned to 11 channels. The current Dolby upmixer doesn’t do wides. So the content is limited. However Dolby is working on their upmixer that will upmix to wides. Some high end equipment already has it. DTSX pro is out though, and it takes all DTSX content and mixes it to as many channels as you want natively. It also allows for the neural x upmixer to do the same. So wides will be much more “widely” used once the new Dolby and dts x pro is more common place I think.

[@Edward135i]

People don't use front wides, because they don't understand them. A lot of people think they are only for huge rooms.

[@doctorcXanthophyll]

Yes, I still use them. I have a 7.1 that will disable the side surrounds when the Front-Wide pair is enabled. Mostly use them for music concerts.

[@Triggaaar]

The front wides don't need to be the same as your front speakers, they can match your side surrounds instead. A lot of Atmos tracks are hardcoded as 7.1.2 or 7.1.4, so they don't use the front wides. That will probably change as they get more use. DTS:X Pro can use them, and Dolby upmixer can now use them on the top Denon and Marantz amps (the 8500 and 8805).

[@FURognar]

Static Objects vs Active Objects. If a movie has active objects, chances are they will use your front wides in some capacity.

[@HydraSpectre1138]

Also, DTS-HD MA 7.1 supports front wides instead of surround backs. These are very rare, and probably don’t exist, but they are part of the DTS-HD MA spec. And Marantz/Denon supports these tracks. Such a shame, as this configuration would be perfect for Cinerama (7.0 front wide) films like How the West Was Won, and older 70mm (6.0 front wide with mono surround) films like Spartacus, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Oklahoma!, and The Sound of Music. Later 70mm films like Star Wars and Alien were 4.2 (with the LFE being duplicates of each other) while a handful of them like Apocalypse Now, Top Gun, and The Black Cauldron had 5.1 split surround tracks in 70mm.

[@dadgotable]

Back in the day, companies like Zenith had quadraphonic sound. But you would need a large room.

[@AllAccessConstruction]

Yes.. I'm running front wides.. Love it. ALL arendal 1723s and surroundeds

[@RichMcCarter]

Have mine already set up! Just need to update my Onkyo AVR to a DENON X6700H and I’m all set. Hopefully by this summer!

[@MichaelLHill-fd3kw]

I have them in my family room with the atmos in each corner of the room. I use Polk T15S for the wide ,T50s front and side with the T30 center and I am lucky enough to have a wall in a angle that is 6ft and this allows me to put the speaker on the right side at level with the left speaker at the same position but the right speaker are about 2ft farther back than the left but the 32eq audyssey has setup the speakers to account for the difference. I personally think that the wides gives a full sound and they don't jump out at you and are not louder than the front stage but balance the sound very well imho. I enjoy the way it sounds.

[@keepingupwiththejones2933]

Front wides will have even more of a presence once you buy your house and design your dedicated space.

[@movieflicktube]

Surely the sound from “wide” speakers is exactly the same as the front speakers as they are not discrete channels with respect to older codecs . But might be discrete with ATMOS

[@Triggaaar]

If they're not coded and you're not using an upmixer, they won't output anything. If you are using an upmixer, it should try to guess between what's in your front L or R, and the matching side surround. It shouldn't ever be the same as your front speakers.

[@MichaelLHill-fd3kw]

2 totally different sound and if it is noticeable without putting your ear close to the speakers then it is not setup and dialed in correctly.

[@adrianbarac3063]

​@@TriggaaarYep. I look at it like upmixing 5.1 to 7.1 to include the rears. Been doing that for years and it's a big improvement in staging, panning, sweet spot, etc. My hope is that adding Wides will yield a similar improvement...? But I'm still confused about which tracks the DSU can and can't upmix to include Wides.

[@totalplonker824]

Imperfection are sometimes better than perfection... thanks for leaving in the Bloomers and giving me a giggle 😁

[@marcgallant5270]

Its a shame Denon removed this options unless you have the top AVR x8500h, it maybe on the x6700h but definitely not on the x4700h :(

[@viperracing2889]

Yeah, you need the 6700H which is almost 3 times the price! Madness!

[@keyzone72]

The new Denon A1H supports 9.1.6 with FW support, but it goes for $6499. Ouch!

[@trevorparmer5231]

Kpaceguy, I use Polk LSiM 702 fx speakers mounted on my walls for front wide channels (and the Anthem AVM 70 - 7.2.4). The Anthem integration is better than my RMC-1L, so far I’ve demo’d some apple spatial music, Midway and Bladerunner 2049. The effects in Midway are truly enveloping and realistic. My room is 15.5 w and 32 L with no option for rear surrounds so the wide channels compliment my layout best. BTW, I love the AVM 70, so user friendly, ARC is fantastic and the webUI is the best I’ve used. Enjoying your videos.

[@Kpaceguy]

I appreciate it

[@adrianbarac3063]

Hi Trevor. So are you using the Anthem to upmix everything to include Wides? What mode are you using, and are you noticing much of a difference across the board? Thanks in advance!

[@trevorparmer5231]

@@adrianbarac3063 Hey man, I have actually removed my wide channels since my response five months ago. I found, over time, when playing in true Atmos with Spatial tracks it was somewhat artificial sounding at times and was not making enough difference with movies to warrant the two extra channels of amplification when I replaced all my amps (went with C298 for LR and Outlaw 7000x for all others). I moved my 702 f/x speakers to the surround channel location and have a pair of LSiM 703s sitting in my storage room. :) And I don't upmix anything, all tracks/movies are played back in native formats.

[@jamegumb7298]

I'd take front wide over side surround, it would be equally as easy to place, if not easier. Especially at my desk, where I use surround.

[@blueflame0003]

I have the denonx8500h with 13.2.4,i only use wide ...huge difference in block buster movie watching going 13.2.6 to keep up with dolby. Great video...

[@Kpaceguy]

Thanks for watching

[@FURognar]

Yeah Front Wides are effects channels like Surrounds. They dont need to be as robust as the front soundstage. And they are becoming quite a bit more common as people are moving up beyond 11 channel setups.

[@Lbmwm3]

Hi KSpaceGuy, The AVM70 has the ability to it. I have it set up with my Klipsch 8000 Lt & Rt with Klipsch 600m book speakers. When I calibrate the system the db dropped considerably. I think 🤔 it depends on how wide the room is too. All Honesty, I don’t use it either. Thanks 😊

[@paulcurmi5875]

I’m building a home with a dedicated home theatre and will have 9.4.6 system through an AVM70. All speakers will be Krix except for 2 subs which will be DIY GSG Audio.

[@adrianbarac3063]

Paul, how did you go? How have you found DSU and DTX upmixing to include Wides??

[@BornIn82]

Dual tone socks to match your canton color scheme....nice.

[@Richter1otaku]

Can you do a video of front height speakers ? Is rare to see info on this or videos. what's their purpose and how to setup ( i have an old sony str dh520 7.1 system?

[@Kpaceguy]

I have. You set it up the same way as on wall dolby atmos

[@Richter1otaku]

@@Kpaceguy thanks man, I'll keep watching your videos

[@albertelazar4069]

Hi Kpaceguy, what if for example your using two rows of seats in your home theater, what inputs on your Marantz AV10 would you then use for an additional set of side surounds for say a 9.2.4 Atmos set up? Would the additional side surrounds be used as "FRONT WIDES" as inputs on the Marantz AV10?

[@Kpaceguy]

Front wides still go in front. They're actually not close to the sides at all. So if you want both rows to have side surround info then you want them to both be playing the same info. You can run front wides to bridge the gap between front and side but I wouldn't run the 1st row wide and the 2nd row side if that's what you're asking

[@albertelazar4069]

@@Kpaceguy you didn’t understand my question properly, but it’s ok👌

[@Kpaceguy]

Oh sorry. I mean yes enable as many speakers as you can. If you want to use 9.2.4 then you can use the front wides but I'd personally go 7.2.4 or 7.2.6 if you can

[@albertelazar4069]

@@Kpaceguy Yes, but what if you wanna do two rows of seats in a theater? You have to then do a single set of side surrounds per row, which would then have to be a 9.2.2 system, not a 7.2.2! That’s why I asked you that previous question.

[@Kpaceguy]

@albertelazar4069 I personally wouldn't do it that way. I would put 2 sets of rears on the same channel playing the same info. So it would still be a 9.2.4 with 4 side surrounds tied to the same channel

[@Finn-McCool]

Wow I remember you being my go-to guy for my Polk Fix! Because my entire theater is basically old Polk RT55 books and a CX400 center and for heights I found these obscure old molded polymer monitors called M5. But not the bookshelf boxes that come up on eBay. These are like big brothers to the M3II wall monitor. So Basically all share the same woofer and similar tweeter. Then of course My Family purchase me two RP8000F towers and my journey into a Klipsch system begins. RP504C is on deck. The hobby is a slog sometimes! Will you still "never own Klipsch" ???

[@Kpaceguy]

Until klipsch makes a speaker around the $6k-8k for the pair, nope.

[@ishkabibbledib2729]

Who wants to wade through all those speakers to get to the kitchen?

[@chuckywrld171]

I like this video man I like the fact you left in the bloopers dope and I dig the socks bro real life shit

[@Kpaceguy]

💯

[@josetamez6970]

Yes, I use them in my system. It's not complicated and I believe it's self-explanatory. Yes, people won't see or use them to often because first of all, you'll only find them on the more sophisticated and more expensive receivers or pre/pros. Also, content is scarce as I believe only DTSx Pro is the only content that takes advantage of the wide speakers, but I'm ready for it. However, I'd say eighty percent of most home theater fanatics are using the less expensive systems that don't have them available on the back. They're to busy configuring the Height's 1, 2, or even Height 3 speakers in their system. I have the Marantz 8805A and it's a 15 channel pre/pro and it includes the front wide's as the very last speaker option on the back of my receiver. Therefore, I have the Klipsch R-625FA Dolby Atmos enabled Floorstanding Speakers, with the Dolby Atmos speaker built-in on top. Hence Dolby Atmos enabled. You can always replace the Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers with Dolby Atmos enabled speakers. These speakers fire towards the ceiling. That's what I'm doing here. I'm using the Klipsch's bottom radiators as the front wide (FWL) and (FWR), and the built-in radiators as the Dolby enabled speakers for height 1, Front Height Left (FHL) and Front Height Right (FHR). I'm using a pair of Klipsch in-ceiling speakers for Height 2, Top Height Left (THL) and Top Height Right (THR). For the top height rear speakers, I'm using a pair of Klipsch Reference R-26FA Dolby Atmos enabled Floorstanding Speaker as height 3, I'm using the bottom radiators for the surround left (SL) and surround right (SR), and I'm using the top radiator speaker (Dolby Atmos enabled), as the top rear Left (TRL) and Top Rear Right (TRR). Talk about immersive! When you hear the helicopter pan from front to back, you feel like you're sitting inside the helo. Pretty awesome and well-worth the effort. Pretty simple right? I hope this helps.

[@djlytic4603]

Atmos enabled speakers are a great way to get into atmos! But they will never out perform an in/on ceiling mounted speaker I dont think its fair to say "you can always replace" But it is fair to say "it is a more accessible alternative"

[@josetamez6970]

@@djlytic4603 You're absolutely correct. Installing those in-wall speakers were a huge pain. However, they do sound much better than the Dolby Atmos enabled, obviously. The in-walls are aimed down right at me and sound much better than the Dolby Atmos enabled speaker that are aimed at the ceiling.

[@josetamez6970]

@@djlytic4603 Yes, I agree. I'm going back to height speakers and using the Atmos enabled speakers for Auro-3D.

[@FatFolksProductions]

I currently have an 11.2 channel AVR. Would i need a 13.2 AVR to have the ability to run front wides?

[@Kpaceguy]

If you don't want to lose a pair of speakers to put those in, yes

[@FatFolksProductions]

@@Kpaceguy Ok cool beans. I looked thru my AVR's Manual the second i watched this vid, but i only see options for 5.2.4 and 7.2.4. configurations. I have a pioneer SC LX-904.

[@Kpaceguy]

It's been a long time since I had a pioneer but either under amp assign or speaker configuration maybe? Usually you have to start up calibration and select before running it? Can't remember

[@FatFolksProductions]

@@Kpaceguy Thanks a million fam!

[@pastaman6099]

I have doors to the right of the room, and windows to the left of the room, and the width of the room is only 13 feet while the depth is twice that, so front wides are REALLY not a good idea for me. At best, I just like to have my actual fronts spread out to the sides farther from the TV and close to the corners. Yes, I like corner-loading for bass boosts.

[@Kpaceguy]

Why? If you have subs

[@pastaman6099]

@@Kpaceguy the more low bass the better. I'm just that kinda guy lol.

[@Kpaceguy]

@Pasta Man you know modern day receivers have bass controls. What receiver do you have

[@pastaman6099]

@@Kpaceguy Yamaha TSR 7850. I use the PEQ to boost the low bass even further on all the channels, tone down the 198 hz range to make the speakers and subwoofers complement each other even further, and I tone down the higher frequencies above 80-100 hz on the subwoofer channel. Even when I crossover the towers at 80, which gives the most balanced sound, I still get a good amount of bass from them, so that's amazing too.

[@menash41]

Will an avr/prepro with wides capability process a 7.1.4 soundtrack to use the front wides?

[@Kpaceguy]

@@menash41 yes

[@menash41]

@@Kpaceguy So I would say it's worth having.

[@Ibhenriksen]

Front wides are actually an antiquated format. As soon as Dolby Atmos became available, FWs became obsolete. On paper, it does seem like it closes that gap better but Atmos actually does a better job. For whatever reason, physics plays a more important role and sound tests show it through graphs. But some people swear front wides are better. Trust your ears is what I say.

[@viperracing2889]

Anthony Grimani says wides are more important than an extra pair of ceiling speakers.

[@adrianbarac3063]

@@viperracing2889 Depending on your room layout, that makes sense - Especially considering how many films have little or no height information originally. But any film with surround info should matrix up to include Wides, right?

[@adrianbarac3063]

Ibhenriksen - Not sure I agree. For decades, sound designers and engineers have been mixing for the "Floor" channels only. Height channels have only crept into mixes over the last decade. I've found all surround content up-matrixes to 7.1 incredibly well... so why not 9.1 too?

[@whitecrowuk575]

You’re mistaken in your understanding what FW are and what Atmos is. Atmos is object based so more speakers the better imaging and sound positioning. More channels the better. Hence adding FW does close that gap especially if your fronts are not properly sat out. More over in rooms where sofa is close to the wall and makes it impossible to use rear surrounds, front wides are great option. Thing to remember not every Atmos is proper Atmos and might not use wides - Dolby is already working on new version that will. Neural X upmixer does handle it though, most of the time, but unless you have pro it’s limited to 11 channels, so no SB

[@Ibhenriksen]

@@whitecrowuk575 You also have to understand what quality of Atmos you're referring to. Not just a cheap receiver with Atmos settings but an actual setup of Atmos which runs north of $3000+

[@Edward135i]

Man I wish I had the gift to be able to wake up in the morning and put on one white and one black sock and not notice.

[@Kpaceguy]

Blessing and a curse

[@mexdrago3009]

I would like the front wides to work but 7.1.4 is good enough.

[@brianwheeler3861]

Very nice system man

[@Kpaceguy]

I appreciate it

[@darthsidious599]

Is a front wide system not an auro 3d form? I have bought some front wides. But they are not here already.

[@Kpaceguy]

It doesn't have to be an auro 3d form but can be a part of it. Front wides have been around loooooong before auro 3d

[@raidendigital1003]

No, but I'm pretty sure my Denon AVR-X2500H supports that. Too bad it overheats badly and I think the thing would melt down if I actually connected 7 speakers, even if they were 8 ohms. It would be neat to add on my 590's as F.W. to my Tripple 570 front / Arena 130 Sur. System. The older Denon AVR-683 that powers that system is only 5.1, but it's such a better machine. Handles 6 ohm speakers just fine, where the AVR-X2500H gets hot and distorted really quick. It's really dumb that I continue to drive my 590's with it in the other room. Def not getting the full potential out of the 590's.

[@dereksewkumar07]

"Now (hight-WIDE'S😇) In surround -mode ... Yes this sounds sense which we do use ..But not all receiver had this ..but if you take this away from me I would miss it a lot 😥 " you only start to notice realise what you missing in height-wide-surrounds mode ..by the way this is not just height-channel it's wide fields height channels 😇 ..which we use for atmos etc! ..Music listening All in Dolby surround 😇 (multi channel audio💟) long Sunday night 's 🎵🎶🎼🎷🎺🎻🎹🎸🔉 tuned in on Jazz-F.M.102.2 The Clare Teal show😇💟 Peace✌.. d🤕🇪🇺🗺💟

[@meangreen4500]

If I had an extra pair of speakers which I do.how would I connect them to my 11.2 system I already have?

[@Kpaceguy]

You'll have to go to your settings and select front wide when you do your calibration

[@meangreen4500]

@@Kpaceguy ok

[@drivemarkci]

Great video and thought.

[@Kpaceguy]

I appreciate it

[@len2842]

is it advisable to use Paradigm cc 350 as center with Bose Accustimass 10 series 3; using a marantz av 3006

[@Kpaceguy]

You're fine to do as you please

[@lglg471]

the next audio channels are not going to be high or around they have to be embedded in the floor literally and they are going to call it enhanced atmos or deep atmos

[@samidebs3559]

Or some people doesn’t want to spend the extra money

[@henrikg7256]

I use them.and u can use bookshelf speakers as wide to your towers. they just need to be timperMach.and most New 4k blue Ray has wide channels aktiv.but not streaming movies. and I think they are the best when they work

[@Suspicious0ne]

I didn't sub because I wanted to help the 20k goal. I subbed because dem socks bro.

[@Kpaceguy]

The world needs more people like you. Welcome to the crew

[@bingdong8571]

What recoevers support front wides?

[@Kpaceguy]

Anything with at least 9ch really

[@Saturn2888]

I just paid $7K for a pre-pro so I can have front wides in addition to my 4 heights.

[@audiovideotech9777]

I have a Denon X4100W that supports Front Wide but can't use it because of my living room design where I'm in 5.2.4 Atmos/Auro 3D config.

[@brianwheeler3861]

But I've never even heard of that I've never seen it in the stereo

[@scottwrezenski2356]

I use them now

[@mattgiunt]

Using Polk LSIM 707s as fronts. Would be insane to put two more of these monsters in the room. Ill pass.

[@luisjaramillo9641]

Front wides? What about adding a rear center channel? Wouldn't that make the dialolgue much more better?

[@Kpaceguy]

Rear center isn't for dialog. It's called rear center because of its positioning not because of its role

[@N1ghtwave_05]

No space for me… door in the way

[@bingdong8571]

Channel numbers,correct?

[@Kpaceguy]

What exactly is the question

[@bingdong8571]

Are amps and recievers coming with front wide channels now? Its a great idea but i haven't heard anything about it it until yhis video

[@bingdong8571]

Unless one of the processor companies makes this a discrete channel im not interested, or do they?

[@Kpaceguy]

@@bingdong8571 they do. It's the sound engineers in movies who don't

[@blueflame0003]

I have my wide on the wall with the surround and surround back

[@eddietours3728]

i try them ones and i skip

[@djlytic4603]

Atmos will use front wides as part of the 3d coordinate system if they are enabled, even if the base layer mix is 5.1 Ive never seen a 9.1 format supported on disc... most are 7.1 or 7.1 with atmos Only way to get front wide content on a non-atmos track is to use an up-mixer, otherwise they are ignored Its worth noting that while streaming (5.1) a non atmos mix, rear speakers are also ignored unless using an up-mixer Atmos will make use of all speakers that are enabled, even on streaming

[@richardbixler]

I think surround systems are getting out of hand. It’s like razors 1,2,3,4 blades it gets to point where it starts just being a gimmick. Unless you have a huge room it doesn’t really make sense imo

[@jamegumb7298]

Why are your socks mismatched?

[@Kpaceguy]

Because they both do the same thing

[@Pitbull0669]

I have them :) 9.4.4 system lol

[@Kpaceguy]

Outrageous. You gotta send it in for subscriber showcase