Kristin Tattar Orbit Grace vs Halo Wraith In Heavy Winds

[@disc_qualified]

Just lost my last beefy 2022 Tattar grace and wondered how the newer ones compared in stability, just crazy that I find this complete thorough review 🎉 great video, thanks!

[@GreatCoursesofSC]

Last fall at USDGC, I was keeping score for Kona Montgomery's card and Colton was walking with us, as well. She leaned on the Royal Grace heavily that round and I noticed that one was gray and SUPER stable, more than a normal Royal Graces. I asked her about it and she said that for whatever reason, the ones with the grey rims are stupid overstable and it's her go-to in a headwind. I tracked one down a few weeks later and compared it to the others I own (4 blue, 2 red, 1 pink) and it is noticeably more stable. Certainly it's not that dye color itself, but have no idea why they are beefier.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Interesting! It must have just been something about that run! My grey one is a nice one for sure!

[@frankhubbard2863]

Thank you for all the good information you gave us. I just recently started watching your page and it really answers a lot of the questions i have. Thank you!

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Thanks for watching! I'm glad my content is helpful!

[@thallman7147]

Wow David. Never knew about the parting line determining the disc to be less or more over stable. Thank you for sharing that tip. 👍

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah for sure! definitely helpful when looking at discs in the store!

[@dthalman]

I agree - that was cool to see!

[@nathanbarry5914]

I played the wind tunnel at SMP today and my 2 Tattar Orbit Graces did not want to fight back on 12/14/18 into the 20mph headwind. They didn't flip over but they both ('22 and '23) flipped up a little and gently drifted right with very little fade at the end. I love the Graces (I also bag a stock run for more flip) but I'll be putting my GG Halo Wraith back in the bag for rounds at the wind tunnel/SMP for those few holes.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah the Halo Wraiths definitely have more stability for those winds!

[@mpbx3003]

I got one of the pre-Worlds Orbit Graces and it's a super beefcake for my noodle arm. Played a tournament in similar wind last weekend, though, and my stock Grace was a key disc for me in the wind. Much less straight beef which meant I was actually able to shape a few shots with it in the wind. [With my slow, bad throws.]

[@Dave-tl7ol]

Great vid. I just got a star wraith in the mail to replace my old one.. It's 165 and HUGE poptop dome.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Wraiths are so good!

[@blinddg5064]

I wonder if, referring to the doth savek destroyer video, the wing slant angle would be a difference in these?

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Measuring the height of the wing usually correlates to having that bigger angle under the wing. It's just much easier to compare since you don't need to have precise measuring tools to compare them! You can just put them next to each other and look at the difference. Although measuring the angle under the wing might be more accurate when measuring across different molds since that has more to do with the stability than the height of the wing

[@christophermerida8071]

Bought some Graces from your drop today! Thanks for the heads up, been struggling to find these anywhere. Please alert us when you get maybe stock royal graces in!

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah, I have tried to get them whenever they are in stock! But they are hard to get even for vendors!

[@dogmatron1604]

In my experience, that particular color and run of halo wraith is the flippiest made so far (haven’t tried the 2023 GG run yet). Would have been fun to see a truly stable halo wraith (2020, 2021 white and blue)

[@reidbanta415]

22’s aren’t super stable but 21’s are beef

[@kimmomatikainen1843]

Wraith is significantly more stable than Grace, regardless whether those are Orbit vs Halo or stock vs stock. Give that Orbit Grace to GG and he will throw rollers with it. In the open blue Grace was thrown nose up to the sky that it can't be even compared. The downhill shots were closer to each other and pink Grace had close to a similar nose angle than Wraith had. Difference is not that big when thrown 300 ft and even less when thrown 250 ft. But there is significant difference when thrown 400-450 ft. Farther those are thrown the bigger the difference is.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah I definitely threw the blue one nose up on the open hole... And I would agree with that on the Orbit Graces vs the Halo Wraiths, but when comparing stock runs I would say they are pretty comparable! You can find super flippy stock wraiths out of the box, same with Graces, and you can find some pretty stable Wraiths, same with the Grace. It's just the Grace is a touch faster and the rim is a touch wider. But for most ams who throw around 375-400ish ft, they are both very comparable and some of the best options for staple distance drivers. It's just the Grace doesn't have an option for a Halo Wraith type stability

[@prattacaster]

Lat64 markets the Grace as a neutral flying 11 speed. It's not supposed to be as overstable as a Wraith (see flight numbers and subtract .5 fade cause it's Lat64). Saying GG couldn't figure out how to bomb a shot with a Grace is preposterous. Of course he carries a few Flippy Wraiths that are less stable than an Orbit Grace. You act like a Grace couldn't possibly go 600ft. See Matty Os 600ft woods shot parked for Eagle last year.

[@wilmaterna4667]

love the video format

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Thank you! I appreciate it!

[@timweber7165]

Played blackhoof shorts yesterday fun course, did play long to short on 18 have to throw over the water.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah that course is definitely sick! Super difficult! I definitely want another go at it now that I have seen it and hopefully be able to actually warm up 😂

[@MaximilianBerkmann]

I've not tried or seen a 2023 Orbit Grace but I have the 2022 Orbit WC and 2022 Orbit ones and noticed that the blue would be the domiest (compared to orange, blue and teal; I don't have any red or pink Orbit Graces) but the orange one is slightly more OS then the blue one. The 2022 Orbit WC blue Grace I have was pretty much the exact same as my 2022 Orbit Grace (same stability and dome). I think you definitely missed the opportunity to show the dome differences and more throws on like 15° hyzer rather than flat (especially in that wind). As for the Rive, yeah, it's a lovely beef complement to the Grace.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

With it being a cross wind on the first hole I wanted to throw them flat to see how stable they really are. Because sometimes on a left to right cross wind the wind keeps pushing on the top of the disc keeping it from turning. Then that won't really show the differences. So I was wanting to do flat and then with hyzer, but the hyzer throws are when the winds just got ridiculous!

[@wesleygrogan5318]

you found it!!

[@tikimurtaugh4919]

I bag both and just throw accordingly to the conditions

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

They are both great drivers for sure!

[@bearislandjosh5279]

Man I went out this past Sunday and played by the river and we were dealing with thirty and forty mph gusts and steady 20 winds. Definitely it's wind season.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah it can be rough! Especially when you don't have the right discs 😂

[@bearislandjosh5279]

@@ApolloDiscGolf thankfully I have my old AJ Destroyer, which handles them pretty well.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

@@bearislandjosh5279 Yeah I have some pretty beefy destroyers! I have one that is like a 12 speed flat top firebird! It's crazy!

[@bearislandjosh5279]

@@ApolloDiscGolf I'm happy to have a chance to get to use them honestly, because I can't really throw a twelve speed otherwise.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

@@bearislandjosh5279 Oh yeah... I cannot throw Destroyers at all, but when the winds get crazy like that... They are amazing!

[@brianb6969]

What if you Smashed a Super "Understable" Disc, with a Ton of Hyzer??? Can a Disc do a Barrel Roll???

[@McSlobo]

Grace is not a heavy winds fighter, neither is Wraith although it's more beefy. I'd say they're just semi-stable distance drivers. Of course it boils down to arm speed. 1st find a stable (not over or under) disc you can get to hyzerflip but not go over in still weather. It will give you your "arm speed" rating. 2nd buy beefier and/or faster discs to get your heavy winds discs. Nothing wrong with Firebird, Felon, Max, Stiletto or Tilt if that is what it takes. Rather be safe than sorry. You will be throwing hyzers in storm, no need for glide as the throw will never be ultra long. For milder winds you wanna get something in between. My point is, if a disc is not consistently stable, you cannot call it stable disc (for you). Get something beefier.

[@dthalman]

For some reason, 12 speeds still feed a touch too beefy in the hand for me. I think the fastest disc in my bag is a 10 speed. If I were to go out in those types of winds I'd bag a my champion wraith, but I prefer to keep the rim slimmer. I also have large hands, so it's kinda weird! Anywho... good stuff!

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Interesting! I agree that I like smaller rimmed drivers, but I thought that was mainly because I had smaller hands 😂

[@supaflashdiscgolf237]

I have a bunch of Grace. Proto is pretty flippy, pink stock run is that nice turning long bomber with no wind, then I had one of the Lupus stamp ones from the original Tattar run and it was pretty stable and took a bit to beat in but someone ran off with it (sadface) I replaced it with two of the pre-worlds orbits Purple and Teal and the Teal Orbit is pretty beefy. It barely turns even when I crank on it. It's very similar to my Climo Star Wraith. The purple one I can get to turn but its still pretty stable. I just got one of the black core post-worlds runs but haven't been able to test it yet, but I hear they are more like the stock run with a lot of turn. Cool test, thanks for braving the winds!

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah, I was thinking they were just going to be about 20mph... which these would probably be great for! Then the winds got to 40mph and I started wondering what I was doing out there 😂

[@truce11]

Great video idea.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Thank you! Glad you liked it!

[@BodanzaDiscGolf]

I won’t tell Anthony 🙊🙊

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Oh, thanks man... He can't know I actually like the Grace... My whole cover would be blown!

[@danielmccachern2307]

The 2023 GG halo wraiths definitely are not as overstable as the 2022 GG halo wraiths, FYI

[@backhanddaddy]

Is the plastic on 23 very gummy and tacky, or more stiff and hard?

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

I haven't thrown the '23 ones, the one in this video is a '22 one I'm pretty sure and it feels a little more gummy and tacky

[@redsleaves]

Is the Orbit plastic made the same way as Halo or is it just a different color on the rim?

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Isn't Halo plastic just a different color on the rim? Is there a special way they make it? 😂

[@redsleaves]

@@ApolloDiscGolf ha! I guess I thought there was another layer of plastic baked onto the edge but maybe I’m an easy mark for marketing

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

@@redsleaves I mean, I don't know either 😂

[@redsleaves]

@@ApolloDiscGolf haaaa!

[@BukfromWhiskeySoldier]

But how was your putting? Asking for a friend, and myself. 😎

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

I didn't even bother putting this day 😂

[@virtualandvirtuous]

More throwing less talking.

[@japes1172]

appreciate the metric conversions, but putting up random decimals is a bit bizarre. you wouldn't say "the wind was somewhere around 23.4 to 26.2 mph". doing it in m/s looks just as silly. round it up to the nearest whole (or at least half) number. or maybe this is meant to be a running joke? idk

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

I usually put the decimals because the m/s isn't as granular as the mph measurement. But if the decimals are weird than I can round them to the nearest whole number! And I use m/s because my viewers from the Scandinavian area said they measure wind with m/s. And since the majority of my international viewers are from that area, that is what I am using

[@japes1172]

@@ApolloDiscGolf like I say (as a European viewer) I appreciate the metric conversions and I think the units are fine. I would disagree with you about the granularity, as measuring in m/s or mph generates a number the same order of magnitude... I think you mean converting mph to m/s doesn't result in a whole number? It's up to you but it seems funny to put such a precise value on a figure that is a ballpark guess. "How far out do you think my putt is?" "Oh i'd say about 22.4 feet". Not a big deal either way, just thought I'd comment. Thanks for the videos!

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Yeah that’s a good point! I’ll probably just keep them whole numbers from now on to keep it simple!

[@JanFare]

I would always denote wind in km/h as a European. But I appreciate your conversions anyway

[@MaximilianBerkmann]

It's not silly unless you're the kind of people who can't handle 1-2 decimal places.

[@Leopard3_]

"... more mild winds like 20-25mph..." what?

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

More mild compared to the winds I was throwing in for this video 😂 20-25mph is definitely no joke to play in!

[@tremendous9137]

The grace reminds me of a destroyer. Little less overstable. They (lat64)have superior plastic to other brands in my opinion . I have grey grace like yours and tattar grace, fly same lines to me.

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

They are really nice! A great combination of distance and overstability

[@1andonlyMiro]

Man I need you to seriously try the Gold Line Striker. I just need some hope they'll produce more of them eventually. Domey ones are so good. Flatter ones are also so, so good but less stable. The new Opto-Ice ones are in between them when new. 🥲

[@ApolloDiscGolf]

Are they still being produced right now? I haven't seen a striker in a long time!

[@1andonlyMiro]

@@ApolloDiscGolf Opto-Ice ones are available at their online store. Gold line ones I haven't seen produced in years and I'm struggling to find them in new condition 😭. They aren't expensive used tho since barely anyone throws them for some reason 🥲. My absolute go-to fairway driver.