Linen History and Certifications | Ask Textile History

[@KristineVike]

Another can of worms that I didn't even get into in the discussion about certifications, is just how much of the textile industry is blatant falsification, since there is no reliable tracing of origin. Something like 40-60% of cotton labelled organic is not. A lot of garments labelled "100% cotton" has polyester mixed in, and a lot of cotton labelled "Egyptian cotton" has never even seen Egyptian soil. It's a mess.

[@resourcedragon]

I remember first running into that back in the 1980s. I had a shirt labelled 100% cotton, and so I went to iron it as such. That immediately produced that nasty burnt polyester smell. Then I had another shirt that said it was about 5 or 10% polyester and the iron said, no, 100% cotton. According to my mother, at the time, you could legally call something 100% cotton when it wasn't and vice versa. (She was quite knowledgeable about textiles and stuff.) I suppose this parallels things like food products being permitted to have a small amount of rat faeces in them or drinks that have less than a certain percentage of alcohol (but still non zero) being allowed to be sold as non-alcoholic. I think the latter is less common these days but it was definitely the case in the Australian state where I grew up. While "organic" is defined in relation to food (at least in Australia), there are a lot of words, like "natural" that aren't. Unfortunately manufacturers and advertisers are all too willing to make nefarious use of words that aren't legally defined.

[@DAYBROK3]

i dyed 2 "100% cotton" from a large north amarican retailer only to see the different levels of non cotton in the different parts. i was dying the clothes to sell 😒😡

[@stuffinsthegreat]

Well this would explain why some "100% cotton" shirts I've bought feel decidedly like polyester or poly-cotton

[@nerl7473]

happened to me while altering a "100% cotton" sweatshirt a couple of days ago it has a plastic coating on the inside luckily the iron mostly touched a part I was going to cut off anyway

[@handled-g3u]

I have a couple garments someone gave me which are labeled cotton. Why do they feel like polyester? ??

[@JillianEve]

I clicked on this so fast! Flax has changed even in the last 80 years. I got several stricks of linen from Berta's Flax project. It was grown in Switzerland during the 1930s iir and meant for handspinning. I've never seen anything as fine. I'm growing my own flax and it's hard to find any seed available that's not meant for linseed oil. The high quality fine linen for handspinning is essentially gone. (Also, the Ancient Egyptians were individually splicing their linen which is a whole different process than spinning and far finer.) Yeah... certification is meant for industry members and marketing, not for consumers who want to make informed purchases. Great video! 💜🙏🧶✨

[@KristineVike]

It makes me so sad that it’s gone. Of course we could breed for it again as we have in the past. But all that time and effort just lost!

[@sonipitts]

@@KristineVike I keep hoping a dig turns up a cache of OG Eqyptian flax seed that's still viable (or at least DNA recoverable for cloning)

[@Nebulouslystarlight]

I'll get the punnet squares 😭

[@RebeccaTreeseed]

I found a few linen plants native to New Mexico and encourage them to spread. In a couple more years I should have enough to attempt making linen. I generally buy thrift store clothes and fabrics, in cotton fabrics. I make clothes and quilts, and eventually turn them into rags before composting them. I don't buy cleaning chemicals, but grow some. Hopefully I am not adding toxins to my garden, it produces most of my annual food intake. Today I planted 4 native plum trees. I am pretty excited and hope they do well.

[@KristineVike]

That sounds really exciting! It would be so interesting to hear how spinning that comparesto other flax! And fruit trees too! I hope to one day have a small plot if land where we can plant trees and bushes and local plants. That’s awesome! 🌱

[@RebeccaTreeseed]

​@@KristineVikeI have 5 acres backing up to a wildlife corridor, and I plant for them, too. Yeoman farmers in England generally had 1/4 acre, and US city lots were originally sized to give each family land to farm and feed towns and cities. Then grass like elites had in Europe became the rule. However, the elite raised sheep on those massive "lawns". We somehow got off track.

[@emmawelch]

You're one of my favorite creators -- thanks for another informative, approachable, and fun video, Kristine!

[@KristineVike]

I am so happy you enjoyed it! Especially finding it approachable! ❤️

[@caylarivera2804]

Very interesting answers! The more i learn about these topics, the more i want to deep dive into learning how to make my own clothing from scratch. From plant to cloth, or from sheep to sweater. Thank you for making it easier to learn about these things in a very entertaining and non boring way ❤

[@KristineVike]

I am glad you do not find it boring! But yes, there is so much to learn and see and experience!

[@johannageisel5390]

Hasn't "Engineering Knits" done that? Sowed, harvested, processed and then woven her own linen cloth? Or was it another youtuber?

[@resourcedragon]

@@johannageisel5390: Yes, it was Engineering Knits. Growing the flax was a little more challenging than she expected, partly because she planted the seed too late. She ended up with a very small quantity of flax from her own seed beds and so she picked some wild flax when she went to visit her parents. She used a natural dye to dye the flax she herself grew, so that she could see it and tell it apart from the wild. In her case, the flax that she was able to grow did produce a finer yarn than the wild flax. There is also a video of a very elderly Irishman demonstrating how to grow and prepare flax for spinning that is well worth watching. The old man is very much a charming old-school gentleman. He planted a small-ish patch with flax seeds and it was absolutely chokkers with flax plants. Based on what the flax patch looked like, I'd have thought that he'd get enough flax for a good 2 or 3 shirts. By the time he'd picked it, rippled it, retted it, dried it, used the brake on it, scutched it and finally hackled it, I would have guessed that he had about enough flax to spin and weave into half a shirt. There are also some videos from a Canadian crafting group that show them working on linen production like this.

[@johannageisel5390]

@@resourcedragon Thank you.

[@RuailleBuaille]

​@@resourcedragonRob Stephens here on YT has some videos about the process from growing to spinning - Eugenio Monesma has some footage of the flax process from weaving to spinning as well if you're looking for more of it 😊

[@ruthkirkparick3535]

The information you provide is always interesting and helpful, so I will be watching for it -- along with all things sewing and, your dear cat.

[@KristineVike]

She was being a chaotic darling for this. I hoped she would snooze on the table as I talked, but alas.

[@MissMeganBeckett]

I found a package of decorative flax flower seeds for sale at the local hardware megastore chain when mom was buying lightbulbs, I’m going to try growing them this year and see if I can get anything spinable from it in the fall after it finishes flowering and sets seeds, it’ll be a good winter project to rett the flax.

[@iokheaira]

I want to point out that superfine yarn and fabric has always been a rare luxury product! Because the common peasant who only owned two shirts (one for the wash, other to wear) prioritised harder-wearing fabric which also means thicker (still fine, but achievable by modern machines) and tightly woven (less common nowadays, not only due to production issues but also because people want softer fabrics to wear). The famous see-through fine Indian muslin, too, is not suitable for workwear and requires young spinners with good eyesight plus highly specialised weaving methods; last I heard, they were trying to revive it recently. The label confusion is frustrating because you get bamboozled anyway - but as you say, and since apparently production exceeds demand massively in any case, buying less is better than picking a supposedly morally correct option...

[@KristineVike]

Oh, how I wish more tightly woven, hard wearing fabrics were available to us! But yes, buying less when you can is so important. We cannot consume our way out of overconsumption!

[@johannageisel5390]

@@KristineVike That's what bothers me so much about modern linen: It always has so many holes in it! Instead of having many thin threads they just make it out of a few thicker threads. The weight per m² is the same then, but you get a cheesecloth instead of a fine crisp veil.

[@ladyjusticesusan]

Kitty butt is what we’re here for LOL! Good kitty❤️ She wouldn’t be a cat if she didn’t show us all the bits. 😊❤️😊

[@michelleramsey4302]

Thank you for validating me...i am in a sewing circle and everyone uses the big machines.....i try to explain that there is something about handwork that settles my spirit and no machine can duplicate my work....new subbie...

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

Thank you for working so hard to help this be accessible.

[@handled-g3u]

I love the pic with the flax flowers. I've grown a few in gardens.

[@elinordrake9716]

Perfectionism....sigh. Yes, totally comprehend. Lol. Another lovely video. I am assuming that this is not possible but just in case, I will ask....can you make a video (Or do you already have one?) that suggests clothing & fabric brands that are legitimate rather than green washed? Thank you Kristine, btw, love the blouse in this video! Thanks for presenting!

[@KristineVike]

I do talk about this briefely in my previous Ask Textile History video. But in essence, what is local and sustainable to me, is not going to be local and sustainable to you! In Norway for instance, we have a surplus of wool compared to lamb/mutton meat production, and much of it gets burned or composted, so I am trying to have an increasingly local wool wardrobe. But that might look different to you. There may be other fibres, crafts or artisans working with amazing skill close to you that you may not even be aware of! At the end of the day of course, we cannot consume our way out of overconsumption and exploiting nature. But I still love and enjoy slower and more mindful crafts. ❤️

[@archeanna1425]

Ah, yes. Shopping bags we can feel so righteous about purchasing because they are made out of 'recycled plastic', a compound that nature now cannot break down.

[@KristineVike]

And also made from used plastic bottles and not other clothes. So a one-stop process with no further recycling opportunities. 😬

[@resourcedragon]

In Australia we get (a) the supermarket bags that make a big thing about being made from recycled paper - and the logos for that look very similar to the actual "you can recycle this" logos and (b) the product wrapping that says it can be recycled by a scheme that went belly-up some months or so ago. Either way, it's greenwashing and there's not a lot the individual consumer can do about it. Also, those bags made from recycled materials, here most of them come from China, some from Vietnam and the plastic bags for vegetables come from the USA. Why we are unable to make our own paper and plastic bags is a mystery, we used to be able to. Is this another technology that is being lost like Egyptian linen preparation or Indian ultrafine cotton weaving? The additional CO2 production involved in transporting stuff thousands of miles more than is necessary grinds my gears.

[@leaf3922]

I’ve been loving your channel, thank you for yet another comprehensive video! I appreciate how you inform people about the things that can be done as an individual as well as complex structural nature of things. If you haven’t already, you might be interested in reading “New Developments in the Science of Biological Species” by Lysenko, as well as his other writings in the T. D. Lysenko Reference Archive, there are a lot of interesting parallels to linen production.

[@Ben-kv7wr]

Thank you for the answer on what happened to linen it was fantastically hard to think of a string of keywords to actually search to start researching 😅

[@KristineVike]

Finding/knowing the right keywords and terminology is so often the hardest part!

[@katrussell6819]

I want to experiment with plant dyes this summer. Please do more on this topic. Thanks!

[@karlahovde]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@liart6219]

Looking forward to this serie. Takk så mye!

[@didelphimorphia2925]

A very welcome video. Thank you! ❤

[@stevezytveld6585]

Please tell me you're keeping your notes for these videos. Any of them could be turned into a journal article with a little adjusting... - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@hysteric-and-hysterical]

Do you have visual snow? I know some people wear orange lenses as color therapy.

[@KristineVike]

Nope. I wear them for my migraines, as bright light is one of my biggest triggers. They’re called FL-41 tints and help reduce the frequency and severity of my migraines, along with a medical plan from my doctor.

[@hysteric-and-hysterical]

@@KristineVike I see, it’s the same lenses people use for visual snow syndrome!

[@katecapek3116]

I'll be Sally one note again: fabric doesn't have to be brand new. Existing items can be canibalized. Estate sales have fabric and things made from fabric (which can be cannibalized). Thrift shops may have fabric. Using what exists rather than feeding low cost fabric mills is good for the environment as well as one's wallet.

[@moinmoinrhabarber969]

I wish these videos were on German so I could show them to my family😢❤️

[@johannageisel5390]

Tja, musst du deine eigene Übersetzung erstellen und als Untertitel-Datei hochladen. ^ ^

[@KristineVike]

You can always take what I am talking about and try to have conversations with your family about it. It can be difficult, but I’ve found it to be more impactful. ❤️

[@moinmoinrhabarber969]

@@johannageisel5390 Das geht? Wusste ich gar nicht😃👍

[@johannageisel5390]

@@moinmoinrhabarber969 Zumindest bilde ich mir das ein. Google lieber nochmal, bevor du enttäuscht wirst.

[@jennglow4647]

Cool 😀

[@lydzphens]

❤❤❤

[@HBCrigs]

linen is bad because capital is antagonistic to labor

[@pyenygren2299]

Her kommer en kommentar for algoritmen. 🎉

[@kellybryson7754]

Once again, we cannot destroy the environment, just our ability to live within it. All elements and molecules are already present, nothing "new" is formed, we just reaarange them.

[@KristineVike]

We most certainly can and do destroy the environment as we know it. And while molecules share their common atom building blocks, they most certainly offer different effects and consequences depending on how they are combined. Molecules hitherto unknown to nature will take a while for nature to learn to break down. Much like how lignin was an unknown when trees developed, and heaps of dead, fallen trees accumulated on the surface of the earth until bacteria developed to learn how to break it down! Deeply fascinating. But also cause for worry. These natural processes take thousands of years to develop.

[@armedvsokord]

This is like saying eating a cooked steak is the same as eating a piece of leather. They have the same molecules, but they are changed by processes that humans have applied to them and one of them you are much more willing to put on a plate and in you mouth. We do change things around us and while some don't feel those changes will matter in their lifetimes, there are those of us who do think it matters a lot. Trying to use the principle that energy is neither created nor destroyed doesn't apply to all atoms. Atoms change into other elements, including ones that are biologically useless to humans. And if enough of them are unavailable to us or the food chain we depend on we will start having problems. I'd prefer we not get to that stage if we can prevent it.

[@sunriseeyes0]

Thank you for this! I’ve been growing flax for a couple seasons now for my hand spinning, so learning every bit I can about linen is always fascinating 🧶🙏🏽💗

[@KristineVike]

There is so much fascinating textilr history! And so underappreciated and underdocumented. But more and more of us are developing a fascination with it. 👀