3 Hiker Deaths with Unanswered Questions... What REALLY Happened?

[@hannahpumpkins4359]

I used to be a park ranger; my very first week I got a call about a man, covered in cuts that were bleeding, carrying a volleyball, and running naked through the woods. One of my last calls before I retired I got a call about a young woman sitting in the middle of the park road screaming and crying, completely naked. But anyway, all these cases that you mentioned were things we dealt with all the time; people split up, they get hypothermia, they fall, they have heart attacks (especially middle-aged men like Nelson)... There were so many that would get lost and contact us; after a minute of talking to the lost hikers and getting info on the trees, etc where they were I knew exactly where they were located; I'd tell them to stay put, and I'd be there in an hour or so (I had to take an ATV). I'd get there to find the lost hikers gone - they decided to walk somewhere else because, "we waited for you for 10 minutes, but when you didn't come, we left". I was like, "I told you guy it'd be there in 1 to 1 1/2 hours, to stay put"! They never do. People think they're equipped for the wilderness, but they almost never are. My advice? File a hiking plan with the park rangers, and stick to it. Let you family know your hiking plan and when you intend to be home. Don't separate from the group. Don't hesitate to turn around if you need to! Ask the rangers what the weather is going to be like - if they say don't hike, then don't hike!

[@rnm_nyc350]

So what happened with Victor Zsasz & Wilson on your first call?

[@jokesonyou1373]

I've never heard of a missing hiker being found naked. They must take their clothes off just for your benefit! Lmao 🤡

[@jokesonyou1373]

@@archie15900 No it isn't. By the time hypothermia has set in the persons do not have the state of mind or strength, to undress themselves. You should do more actual research than just regurgitate whatever you read/watch on KZbin doofy! 🤡 p.s. stop liking your own comments

[@pazza4555]

​@@jokesonyou1373Look up the word hypothermia. 🤡

[@victorserbeen3750]

Got lost in a heavy blizzard in Colorado. 40 miles inside wilderness area, with temperature falling down from +75°F to 0F. Still alive, made it out with pain on my back

[@catmcc3464]

They stress how “experienced” people are but that doesn’t keep them from being overconfident.

[@martinep6293]

Some "experienced" people seem to assume and underestimate many factors. Perhaps the "experience "was in ideal conditions. Employers run into the same issue with "experienced" among new hires on CVs 😂.

[@4theLord1]

I'm so grateful that you are doing this! At 21 years of age, my cousin disappeared when he was on a solo hike(something that I do not recommend) and was found 11 years later by some treasure hunters. They thought that they had found an ancient skeleton, but when the authorities heard about it, they knew who it was. because they had been searching for him for so long. He was apparently standing on a cliff, which collapsed, and he was buried in stones. Finding his remains was such a blessing to give closure to his parents.

[@OfTheSeaKND]

11 years of not knowing must have been unbearable for your family. I’m so glad he was found so that you all could have answers. 💔

[@UpsideDown853]

One of the rare instances in which having more people, may not have made a difference. I hope finding his remains brought relief. I am incredibly sorry for your loss.

[@FPSSteel]

I am sorry for your loss, I wish you the best!

[@jleighwolfe]

I mean.... sure they may not have survived but if he wasnt alone people would have at least known what happened. And THAT does make a difference... ​@UpsideDown853

[@markaemerson]

Having been a Scoutmaster the one thing I always preach to the boys is the buddy system. Nobody goes anywhere, even the latrine in the night, without their buddy. In 100% of the fatalities in the woods they all have one thing in common, they either were alone by choice or got separated from the group.

[@manaash4316]

My boyfriend loves to do solo hikes and this is my biggest fear 😭

[@erickiyoshiphillips2323]

Learn that in the army

[@betterd9160]

The Scouts was a great experience learned a lot with nothing weird.

[@betterd9160]

@@manaash4316you can have him get an emergency satellite device in case of emergency. They cost like 250 to 400 dollars. That and bear spray are essential in solo hikes. Of course a gun is also a good thing.

[@dudemorris7769]

@@erickiyoshiphillips2323well the scouts begins in kindergarten so the army is another 10 - 15 years beyond learning the buddy system for children who join any of the scouts programs.

[@mchitty1234]

I’ve seen this phenomenon when serving in the military, met some foreigners on a remote trail in Valley of Fire, they were so frightened that they had lost all sense of reality and were walking in circles in the desert mumbling nonsensical, dehydrated and possibly suffering hypothermia. I sat them down, gave them water and led them to the trailhead to a park ranger. It made me think that some people cannot handle stress very well and get delusional, lost and possibly never make it back!

[@talbering1776]

Think your right🙏

[@UpsideDown853]

True. Even happens to me. Once got caught in thick bush and vines after falling “through” into some hole. I was close to home, like, 10 minutes, had a phone and water. This never happened, ever and I literally couldn’t move my arms (comfortably) due to the vines. It was really fine but I ended up crawling feet first out of the thicket ( I am talking thick, thick Throns and hardend vines, it def was a work-out, haha) Anyways, I started crying because of panic. No idea why. After 30 seconds my logic kicked in and was just confused at this sobbing child in adult form. It felt to me like when a child shudders and cries because it scared itself by falling. Some people might get stuck in that.

[@12maples]

​@UpsideDown853 Glad you made it out and thank you for sharing your story.

[@rhondab9792]

​@@UpsideDown853 crying might just be a reversion to the most ancient memory, cry and mom comes.

[@angiadcock8196]

I think it’s definitely possible that James’ missing gear was taken by another person. My grandfather’s twin brother had dementia and he walked out of his nursing home one day and into the woods never to be seen alive again. It took them 18 years to find his remains. When they finally did several pieces of jewelry that he always wore (watch, wedding ring etc) were missing they were later found in the possession of a man who said one of his friends told him about the body only a year after the disappearance and he located it and stole the items. Neither person ever reported the location to police. I’m m not trying to imply that’s what happened here but I definitely think it’s a possibility.

[@baxpiz1289]

were they busted for not reporting the body?

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

@@baxpiz1289 - Probably not. Statute of limitations. It may not even be a crime, in some jurisdictions. Its only a misdemeanor in California, and that's for actually concealing a body, as opposed to stumbling across one. Statute of limitations, is only year, so after so many years, they can't even be prosecuted. For other states, the code will most likely be similar.

[@angiadcock8196]

@@baxpiz1289 This happened in a different state than where I live so I’m not as familiar with their laws but I believe we were told there were no criminal charges that could be filed. Most likely due to a statute of limitations if I had to guess. But our family did sue the man who had his items in his possession and was awarded a small judgement in a civil court. So at least there was that I guess. Surprisingly the hardest part was getting the actual items back. The police wanted to hold them for evidence because the remains were so decayed they couldn’t immediately rule out foul play. I think it took about 4 years to get a ruling of accidental death by the ME so his possessions could be released to his children.

[@VictoriaMarch13]

@@angiadcock8196 that is horrifying and sickening. 2 people actually saw the body and didn't care to report it and one of them actually robbed the body. I have no words. People can just be terrible at times. I'm glad to know they were finally able to get the stuff back though. To bad there weren't charges involved.

[@maranathawatch1618]

This sounds suspicious,,,this man who stole the jewelry could have killed the hiker, to rob him. Desperate evil people, who put money and possessions ahead of lives!!

[@flatsixx]

I’ll preface this by saying my cousin has an IQ around 65. Several years ago my cousin was reported missing in southeastern Kentucky near Tennessee after he didn’t return from a camping trip in the Daniel Boone National Forest. I do search and rescue in these hills so I immediately knew what to do: continue binge watching my favorite show on Netflix for three or four more days, then check back. After five days I became genuinely a tad worried. We found his vehicle intact at a trailhead with no signs of foul play. So I spent the next two days scouting the Big South Fork on foot, occasionally shouting his name. On morning three I find Pop Tart wrappers - s’mores flavored. They were still greasy and warm. I hollered out for him. I hear, “Hey old buddy wutcha doin!” He was alive. Not only that, but he’d probably gained 10 pounds. He made state news for his “survival skills,” which amounts to hiking in 50 pounds of junk food and having an immune system like a honey badger. This behavior is Appalachia’s answer to the Australian Aborigine’s walk-about. This is a true story and there’s a lot more to it.

[@PoeLemic]

That's hilarious. One day you should write up the full event and turn it into some short stories competitions. You've got a great talent at spinning a yarn.

[@tomobedlam9045]

So, he doesn't believe in "Leave No Trace."

[@RandyBaumery-s4i]

Wow!

[@rockymtn1291]

😂 Legend!

[@MastaSquidge]

@@tomobedlam9045 well, when a person has a room-temperature IQ, they tend to not give a crap about what's around them beyond their own selfishness.

[@yhsh1874]

For the second story, I am pretty convinced she accidentally took the trail to the left and then noticed that she had taken the wrong trail and tried to get back on the right trail by cutting through the woods and THAT'S very likely where she got disoriented and wandered lost, veering off to the left without noticing.

[@charlesfaure1189]

Yep. Stay. On. The. Trail.

[@JimBobson-r4y]

Never cut a shortcut. I did it once and came about a mess of wild hogs, it could of went bad fast but they were more shocked than I was.

[@JoshDrakePendora]

Could be, but I would think then she would've either been found in the area of woods between the trails, or would've just stumbled across the same trail again. Unless she got confused on that one twisted part of the trail, thought she was facing one way when she was really facing the other.

[@dustinwb84]

Agreed

[@ness-ee]

True, stay on the trail. Never take a shortcut.

[@nck4888]

I'm in Colorado and there was a man and his son that went missing in our mountains at a site I frequently go to. The area has large boulders that throw off compass readings, almost got lost myself and walked off the edge of a cliff at night. I was heading what I thought to be south as indicated by the compass but was actually heading further west due to those boulders I mentioned. The bodies of those two were found mangled at the bottom of the cliff I almost walked off.

[@DenaliOsnaya]

My sibling and I almost got lost hiking in our local city trail to the mountains. It was our 2 time hiking, it was also a well marked trail with lots of people. The issue happens when all the hikers in front and behind us kind of dissipated. Although the trail is visible, at times it isn’t because the terrain is sand in and out of trail. We only managed to get back because another group of hikers caught a glimpse of one of our bright orange backpacks. They led us back on the right track and everything was fine. Totally scared me tho cause we were basically walking into the mountains with no compass, gps or PLB

[@nck4888]

@@DenaliOsnaya yikes glad you all managed to make it back

[@DenaliOsnaya]

Yeah everything turned out ok, but that day I realized why so many people get lost. We were definitely not totally prepared, we were eggar to start the hike but we didn’t bring any sort of communication since cell service is horrible there. We also didn’t bring enough water for the both of us. However, I’m glad we picked such a well traveled trail with lots of people present.

[@gabe-po9yi]

@@DenaliOsnaya Thanks for sharing this excellent info. “Well-marked” trail is so often said, but I see from your post that doesn’t mean every stretch of it is.

[@bonnieenright]

TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE COMPLETE FAITH IN TECHNOLOGY-DONT. AND WE THINK MAN IS LORD OF ALL HE SURVEYS, WERE NOT!!!

[@tdb762000]

I still find the hike of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon, the two dutch girls that went for a easy hike in Panama the most disturbing and unsettling

[@laurieclarkson9180]

me too! I'm in the camp that thinks they were killed.

[@jeremywendelin]

Very unsettling

[@conflict7269]

Is kris the guy that went to Hawaii and disappeared

[@FredtheDorfDorfman1985]

Definitely unsettling. Two young women go missing in Panama, and the scattered remains found show that Kris decomposed much faster than Lisanne, and was mostly bones and her pelvis was fractured, with joint tissue missing that would normally stay intact for years under normal decomposition, and half of her pelvis was bleached. Lisanne on the other hand had more tissue remaining on her bones, and skin that had just started decomposing. Evidence leaned less towards predators dismembering the corpses and more towards them being murdered and dismembered by who knows.

[@karidennis6154]

Oh yeah, i have no doubt that someone was involved in their disappearance. Too many strange things happened there.

[@ChicagoFaucet.etc.]

I always think about how weird this story is, but, twenty years ago, in the early to mid 00s, my wife's boss went missing in New Zealand. His name was Seddon Bennington. After several days of searching, his body was found only a couple hundred yards from the campground. The campground was a communal and well-established campground, with many people around. He apparently died of exposure, but only a couple hundred yards away from safety. He left a wife and several sons behind. I always think about what might have happened, his last thoughts, and about his family.

[@corriemorris8045]

Today there is so much gear that you can have on you, just for all these situations. It's crazy that people still get lost but worse don't have simple things like a whistle, shiny, reflective items, hand held compass, etc.

[@PoeLemic]

Strange that he would die only yards away from a campground. Looks like he would have heard noises from a certain direction. So, if what you say is right, a couple of hundred could be 200 / 250+ yards. So, that's only 800+ (maybe 1000) feet from a campground. I don't see how he could get lost that close, but I do believe it. Just startling that that is the case.

[@13donstalos]

If you're in the woods and you can't see the camp from where you are, it could happen at like 50yd

[@GEOMETRICINK]

I saw a story about another guy who died of exposure near a house. Could definitely see the porch lights as he died. He had been lost for a week and died as he tried to get to that house. It happens. They just can’t physically make it that extra 1000 feet. He had probably been wandering for along time, made his way back, but just didn’t make it in time. It’s very sad.

[@chrisj8764]

Kiwi here, to clarify some points. Seddon Bennington was an experienced tramper (hiker) who was the head of New Zealand's National Museum, Te Papa. He went hiking with a less experienced family friend in winter in the Tararuas, an area renowned for quick weather changes and deadly storms, Neither took a cellphone as they incorrectly thought there would not be cellphone coverage. The weather changed quickly to a blizzard and they both succumbed to hypothermia about a kilometre from Kime Hut, which was in fact named for a hiker who was rescued about a hundred years ago after many hours in atrocious conditions, but perished overnight in the hut.

[@edwardhlavka5843]

Believe it or not, some people are quite capable of taking things they find on the deceased without any consideration for the suffering families.

[@peatmoss4415]

Sounds like the voice of experience....

[@elaineisabelle427]

Yeah, maybe in the 1800's

[@graceannamaria]

@@elaineisabelle427nope, definitely still in the 21st century, people are cold hearted and don’t care..

[@anthonyduncan5920]

I think that people that do not hike cannot understand this. Look, a person died doing what they loved. My water filter was frozen and busted three days ago, I need water. I find a dead person. Their filter is op, so I take it. I do not call the cops when I get to town, because I do not want to disturb he peaceful rest of a fellow hiker that found his place.

[@deniseelsworth7816]

​@@anthonyduncan5920I get what Ur saying but this person has a family and friends that they might actually have wanted you to contact to put them out their pain.

[@Alenasup]

Could be that people come across a bear, panic and run off the trail and become disoriented unable to find the trail again

[@orazha]

I would be a prime example of how someone might get lost (in fact did once) because of my curiosity. I always wanted to see what was over the next hill, around the next curve, etc. and had no qualms about leaving the trail to see something. One thing leads to another, and soon the trail has disappeared.

[@ANPC-pi9vu]

Thing with the hike to Andrew's Bald is that for a lot of it you'd be going off a cliff. It's a nice wide well kept trail, very safe, but a lot of it runs along the side of an eroding mountain ridge and then right down the spine of eroding mountain ridge. My best guess is she had to pee and skidded down a slope she couldn't get back up, and then wandered around until she had a more serious fall and died in that hard to reach area. You can't really explore off trail at all until you are close to the Bald where the eroded mountain spreads out more.

[@sandramaiden4707]

I used to be like that, in Australia we are known as Sundowners.

[@no_peace]

This happened to me once when i was in pajamas, with Crocs and a blanket on my shoulders, in the high desert. I was following a jackrabbit lol. We were at a state park cabin and somehow I got on the other side of a flippin crevasse in the sand/dirt. I had gone out onto the porch at like 6am but by the time I was getting worried about making it back it was maybe 8am and already getting quite hot

[@markblemings]

Completely typical to remove clothing in severe hypothermic situations. It actually gives more answers than questions.

[@KyleHatesHiking]

interesting note... thanks for sharing. something to think about for sure

[@kimberlykimberly1415]

paradoxical undressing

[@xBLACKxOPSxSECRETSx2]

Which maybe was trigger by him losing his shoes

[@rayosunshine]

True, but a doctor?

[@littledrummergirl_19]

@@rayosunshinesomeone else mentioned buts it’s called paradoxical undressing - it’s the body’s response in the final stages of hypothermia close to death. You start to feel extremely hot and start ripping off your clothes while in a panic. Whether or not someone is a doctor wouldn’t change how the body reacts in the final stages of hypothermia - you’re close to death and not in a sound state of mind, it’s not a choice because “huh, I feel warm. Let me take my clothes off, I’m sure it’ll be fine” it’s a total irrational reaction due to the deteriorating state of your body/health

[@pookiecookie1994]

i used to live in colorado. Lived there for 10 beautiful years. I lived in a town about 2 hrs outside of the mountains, and my family and I made many many trips to the mountains for ski trips specifically. March is still a great month to ski during, so I am SHOCKED at your first story. It occurred while I lived there, and during the ski season my dad spoiled us and rented a lodge area to use on the weekends/winter break. While it wasn't up in the slopes, it was only about a five-minute walk to the bottom of the ski lift in Keystone. Even on brighter, warmer days he refused to let my sister and I walk alone to take out the trash (fear of bears and sudden storms and such). Vail is even more brutal. It's HUGE. Enormous. We usually went to Keystone instead so my younger siblings could come onto our adventures with us. I'm shocked they let McGrogan go alone. Absolutely unfathomable to me, even in March. It's so hard to find someone on any of the mountains. I got KO'd while snowboarding and it took an hour for my father to find me. May he rest in peace.

[@RiseNShine681]

You always need to be extremely careful in the Rocky Mountains. Not just with the altitude but also the snow and how it can affect the nearby streams/creeks. I was just out near Turner Peak last weekend and there was still 3-5 feet of snow in areas. And because the snow was not yet completely melted, the nearby streams and creeks were absolutely RAGING. One slip on a hike and you could be swept away in seconds. Always use caution anywhere in the high mountains.

[@KyleHatesHiking]

good points, be careful out there!

[@elainebmack]

Even when altitude is not a concern, walking/hiking in an unfamiliar area can be dangerous. During a central Mississippi family reunion, my sister and I decided to take a late afternoon walk down what looked like a basic country road. We walked for about 10 minutes when the road suddenly got very dark and woody, blotting out what was left of the late afternoon sun. When we looked back, it was as though we couldn't tell where we had come from and couldn't really see where we were going. It was really creepy. We decided to turn back and retrace our steps, but everything just looked and felt different somehow. We got back ok, but we never did that again.

[@HighSpeedNoDrag]

Spent time in Summit Co. and a few other places in Co. In the summertime: Get below tree line before noon (14ers) and know your skill level. Great times.

[@jeanettemarkley7299]

I was a young teen with my boyfriend going hiking for the first time. We followed a marked trail but it was hard to see a trail other than the marks. At some point the trail seemed to be up a steep area which required climbing. We didn't know what to do but saw a group of young men well suited up climb, so we went too. After that the trail was much harder and we were barely able to follow the marks. We made camp just off the trail and found out later that we had veered off an easy trail to and expert one. LOL from the red dot to the red dash. Good thing we were both in good shape and had been able to follow the marks there and back again. We easily could have gotten lost, and did not have a phone (1980s).

[@kitfisto1827]

On the second case: I think Susan changed her mind. I think she decided to surprise her daughter at Klingmans Dome. She made the bad decision of going off trail to catch up. The tower at Klingmans Dome is a large, manmade structure and is visible from a long distance. She may have been attempting a "shortcut" by keeping the tower in sight. Eventually she came to an obstacle where she could not continue straight ahead. She attempted a detour, lost sight of the tower, and got lost. If she was still hiking at night, trying to find her way back, she could easily cross established paths and not know it, as I doubt she had adequate lighting for a night hike.

[@greyscout01]

Yes, going off trail in an area in an area you're not familiar with AND have a hard map and compass.

[@elonever.2.071]

That is a possibility but what are the chances she would meet her daughter exactly when she was at Clingman's Dome? She was a great mother that raised three kids indicating she had some critical thinking processes so it seems she would follow the same route the daughter did anticipating she could meet her somewhere on the path. I don't have any more of a clue than anyone else but it seems to me that some of these people were 'pushed' off trail by something that really frightened them. Maybe a large rustling or scary noises that kept them from following the trail. They may have seen a bear on the path and got off trail for a bit to let it pass and got lost. Dr. McGrogan was a very experienced hiker so I think some scenario like this could explain why he was so far off trail.

[@laurieclarkson9180]

@@elonever.2.071 great observations! I always get concerned when I hear stories of hikers that arrived together, separating..via one person walking off or walking ahead because in many criminal cases, it can indicate a fight happened which can grow violent. I don't think that's the case here..but it always makes me wonder in some of these hiking cases. We often hear where they were found and clothing/supplies with them, but we rarely hear autopsy reports. Some things look obvious, but aren't.

[@ANPC-pi9vu]

I'm confused... I thought the daughter was waiting in the car/at the visitor's center because she didn't want to hike? I've been there and done that hike... it's a one way and then turn back kind of hike from the parking lot to Andrew's Bald. There is nowhere to meet her daughter at Andrew's Bald... Did I misunderstand some part of the story?

[@reason8958]

Why hasn’t anyone raised the possibility of crime. I have been to Clingmans dome 4 times and it has very active traffic both vehicle and pedestrian. Perfect place for a predator to lay in wait. You absolutely know someone will be coming by within 15 minutes but you also know that there will be time enough to commit a crime or force someone off trail. There have been murders on the Appalachian Trail.

[@regbillings4955]

The last story, wildlife commonly pick up items and carry them off. It's like trail cameras, coyotes/ bears etc. often try or will carry them off. Great video :)

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

No! Serial killer petty thieves prefer hiking trails and sit there in wait for hikers.

[@redcruben]

I had an experience about 10 years ago that was totally unbelievable. I had been working as an outdoor instructon for over 30 years, we had gone out into the forrest earilier in the day andbuilt some bushcraft shelters with a group of 8. Going in the evening in the darkI decided to leave the path to make it abit more interesting for the group. We had split the group and the other instructor had taken half on ahead. I continued on parrell to the path as I knewthe forrest really well. Aftera short while I vered towards the path using my mental map but couldnotfindthe path. I persevered for another 15 minutes and finaly gave up and got out my map and compass . The compass was pointing completely in the wrong direction, I got really confused and would not believe the compass, I was totaly lost and this was only in an area of about 600 mt square. I heard some voices and the othergroup had come looking for us when we did not show up at camp. With over 30 years experience navagiting, mountain instructor and orienteering experience I could not believe what happened. I was relying on my mental map and that was totaly wrong. I think this is what happened to the squadron that got lost in the Bermudian triangle, they would not believe their compass either. Something similar could have happened these people.

[@ritanelson8879]

E Bermuda triangle is well known for ley lines that mess up compasses.

[@channabrennon2017]

I think that happens a lot..that is why the Indians would stay out of certain forests..

[@geraldrhodes4114]

I did something very similar here in Maine a few years back. Totally embarrassed that I could make a series of stupid mistakes. I knew better.

[@pazza4555]

Pilots sometimes struggle to believe their instruments when visibility is bad because they are sure they know where they're going but are completely wrong. Sometimes that means flying directly into the ground or water. JFK Jr is one example

[@TheRunAndGun10]

@@pazza4555came here to post that. Not believing even redundant equipment/instruments often results in death. The compulsion to believe your senses instead is so strong it has to be trained out of you in those situations.

[@Carmensrt]

Someone possibly found the small valuables in Nelson's campsite and took them, thinking the site was just abandoned. That seems most likely to me.

[@PatriciaS-t1x]

But his body was there.

[@kathduncan9618]

First guy - I can get lost in my own bathroom, and have got lost a lot in the bush (Australian here) and you can hit this bizarre conviction that you're headed in the right direction and that even lost you can convince yourself that heading on will somehow connect up with where you're supposed to be going. It rarely does. I've been rescued a lot - not with police etc, but by friends. Luckily I don't move very fast so I've been easy to find.

[@scottwilly86]

I recently went hiking with a group of people who didn't like hiking. They just put their head down and picked a fast pace to just be done with the hike. 3 times the guy in front casually hiked off the trail in which I had to run to catch up to him and let him know we were off trail. I can't believe just how unobservant they were. But in their defense, they really just didn't want to be there.

[@feyHiker]

I can relate to the bizarre conviction you mention, I went out on what used to be a short trail late in the day. Didn't tell anyone because there was no one to tell. I hike and hike and hike and where is the trail that goes out to where I parked? It used to be a U-shaped trail. I finally come out on a dirt road and thought finally! So I started walking in the direction where I thought I left my car. And walk and walk thinking I should have found the car by now. Fortunately, I heard a dirt bike coming down the road, I waved the driver down and questioned him and discovered I was on a completely different road! The trail had been rerouted, what would have been a two-mile hike became eight! And no, I had no food, no water, no flashlight. I did make it back before dark.

[@susannenerad9851]

@@scottwilly86 well I have to ask, why were they even there then if they didn't want to hike?

[@chase4116]

Learn to use your GPS and map on your phone. Also, take a standalone GPS unit with you preferably a Garmin inReach satellite messenger. Barring the GPS not working you won't get lost as you can trace your route. With technology these days there is no excuse to get lost except for ignorance. I carry compasses as a backup.

[@Rodger_Phillips]

@@chase4116 back in my youth I would hike the Grampians trails (Southern Australia) we had current trails and closed down decommissioned trails, those later were my love and joy, and this was the late 70's when I started, I was 8, with my dad, later in the mid 80's I started solo hikes on the same trails some I never walked before, I just followed the old signs some of which were long over due for replacement but were on decommissioned trails so that never happened, of course back then there were no GPS, no Google Maps, just paper maps and landmarks and compasses, I never got lost for more than an hour, which is why I find many of these cases of so called experienced hikers carrying these gadgets which are awesome I must add, amazing that they have them and still get lost some how, I came back to area a few years ago with my family and my wife and I took to walking the old trails I used to haunt, these days I would totally use a Map/GPS even with the knowledge I have (I am in my 50's now) especially after following the case of Julian Sands.

[@allieg4011]

My father had a story about what happened during a hunting trip to the high Rockies in Colorado during late fall. He was a law enforcement officer and so were his friends. They had a good couple of days until the snow set in. They went out in a couple of groups to hunt and one of the guys decided to go off alone. He was also young and the least experienced. They were al supposed to meet back at camp in the middle of the afternoon. The young guy did not show up. They decided to head off in the direction that he went following his tracks. They kept going and realized an hour later that he was running and circling, then they saw his clothes scattered. They found him shortly and he was very hypothermic and not thinking straight. They managed to get his coat on him and wrapped the lower part of his body and legs in a blanket. They got him back to camp and warmed him up.

[@rmichaud47]

That girl in the second video actually had a KZbin channel where she talks about the search for her mother. Really sad stuff. Again, she they believe she died from hypothermia, She had started a unhealthy diet recently and hadn't been eating much for the days and weeks leading up to the hike. Also wasn't prepared and not wearing proper clothing. Also the weather had even drizzling that night. The trail had a split where it looked like it was the right way. Even her daughter almost got lost while looking she describes, and only knew it because a park guide with her told her.

[@dariamancini963]

I wonder if the daughter had sought help after half an hour or an hour if it would’ve made a difference

[@mikehillas]

Thanks for adding these details and filling in the gaps. After listening to this video, I was wondering exactly what killed her--it wasn't discussed in the video. Cold drizzle and inadequate clothing can kill you.

[@edwardbenton4428]

Hiker Michelle Vanek disappeared in The Mt Holy Cross Wilderness, September 2005. She separated from her hiking partner and was never seen again. This past June a boot was found matching Ms Vanek's. No remains were found at that time. Searchers are awaiting for more snow to melt before searching again

[@sammyday3341]

Story 1: Can’t believe he wandered off on his own, and that the friends let him. Story 2: Hikers can become disoriented by simply getting off the trail several ft. to go to a he bathrooms They stand up, turn around, and everything looks the same in all directions. The same thing happened to a lady “Inchworm” in Maine on the AT. Story 3: Who knows for sure. Probably ill or injured, and disoriented due to the altitude.

[@Word187]

"Hikers can become disoriented by simply getting off the trail several ft" I noticed this to in allot of stories. These day's I have a quick glance on a compass and I bring my GPS device when pooping. Oh and tell my friend to wait for me at trail.

[@lakeshoreshepherds741]

Sad about inchworm- she did have a cell- it didn’t work. She also wasn’t far from the trail or end of the hike. (I believe) she waited for rescue that never came. She also was bad at directions- I wonder why she did it by herself 😢?

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@lakeshoreshepherds741 there were circumstances. her friend had to leave here for some reason.

[@aazhie]

​@Word187 I heard on either this channel or another, to bring some sturdy rope and tie it to a tree if you go off trail for bathroom break. Then you can follow it back. I'm very bad with directions, so it's definitely something extra I bought for my travels!

[@lakeshoreshepherds741]

@@ursodermatt8809 yep- I remember that too.

[@JuanLopezXVIII]

Once went off trail in Colorado to cook and realized I was turned around. Spent 30min trying to track my footprints in the snow where I came in and was able to find my way back. If I didn’t find my tracks in the snow I would’ve gotten lost

[@a.mie.533]

These stories are tragic and sad, yet puzzling and fascinating ... and all three lost persons really look like bright, kind and sensible people 😳 ...

[@KyleHatesHiking]

yes they all seem like awesome people. wishes for their families

[@CytrisMonster]

They're less puzzling if you know anything about hiking, hypothermia, animal attacks, etc. This channel omits well-known information so that these disappearances and deaths appear more mysterious than they actually are. It's intentionally misleading and Kyle knows very well what's up--he's just trying to get that KZbin advertising money.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

Supernatural human traffickers working with locals and media to hide the true story.

[@joeybobbie1]

Hi Kyle, I’m not a Hiker, but I really like hearing your Stories and thoughts about Hiking Accidents or bizarre disappearances. I think Hikers can really learn a lot from your Stories about what not to do while Hiking. Hopefully they will purchase the right gear to be located in a emergency such as locater Beacons. I would probably be guilty of going off Trail to look at something interesting such as a Rock Formation. Luckily I have been a Hunter my whole Life and grew up Trekking long distances through the woods. I have a Natural Sense of direction. I would still carry a GPS in a unknown Location with the SOS Button. Thanks for making these Videos. I think you are helping a Lot of People learn about the do’s and don’ts of Hiking safely.👍👍

[@sassysuzy4u]

Thank you for always being so respectful with these. I think with Susan, she MAY have gone off trail to use the bathroom and didn't take the time to mark her way back to it and got lost. Especially where it is so overgrown and dense in that area. Then once lost and feeling flustered/overwhelmed she just tried to head downhill like you said. I know I got turned around once when I was young and in what felt like an emergency and it was frightening.

[@villagelightsmith4375]

Same thing, same thing, happened to me. Three times.

[@brega6286]

I learned danger lessons early on...do not go hiking or diving etc. with anyone self centered, overly exuberant/confident or impatient. If you are dumb or arrogant enough to go alone...that's your problem and wasting time to recuse you is a waste of resources. Sometimes being responsible is not to go off have enjoy yourself in dangerous places just because you want to !

[@gabriellabennett7024]

Two is one and one is none

[@gabriellabennett7024]

Agreed

[@southerngal7613]

Thank you for sharing these stories with us! I live in Georgia close to the Appalachian Trail. I love listening to your experiences too since I’m not in good enough physical condition to hike very far. I do hike a short 1.5 mile trail close to where I live when able. I wish I had the opportunity to go on an extended hike but I’m thankful to at least be able to get out on short hikes. I love the outdoors it seems to bring me peace ❤

[@Flynnskis]

I was in the Smokey mountains when Susan went missing. They didn't find her until we had left. I stayed close to the case and it seemed like locals believe that she likely missed the turnoff to the clingman dome parking lot and continued along the AT before panicking and trying to bushwack it downhill through the drainage. It was dusk and she might not have been thinking straight as the sun continued to set and missed the sign. The trail is well marked in this area but for someone that is starting to panic, I could see how they could get confused and make a wrong turn as there are several intersections. The temps during that week were dipping into the low 40s at night. I believe the general consensus is that she passed away the first night due to hypothermia. The sad part is the fact that if she simply stayed on the trail and sat down, she would have likely been found by the initial searchers that night.

[@MissEmmy777]

Hi! I discovered your channel a short time ago, I find it really original. In Europe too there are strange disappearances of hikers and even if we sometimes find bodies we ask more questions than before the autorities find them. Hello from Belgium 😄

[@jimmywhispers7385]

No, Not Original! Need To Follow CanAm Missing Project Missing 411. David Paulides covered all this years ago!😂

[@13donstalos]

@@jimmywhispers7385 also Lore Lodge and Missing Enigma. Each has different info depending on the case,

[@Maliceah]

I got lost in the woods in the winter once when I was 10. My dad sent me home from hunting rabbit and told me to retrace my steps. When I got to the field area, the wind had blown snow over my prints and the trail ended and I couldn't see the other side.

[@taleandclawrock2606]

Eek. Glad you made it out! How long were you lost? Hopefully that made your Dad realise what a ridiculous risk is is sending a child alone into the wilds!!

[@laraoneal7284]

@@taleandclawrock2606. That’s child abuse what the dad did. Disgusting.

[@FatRescueSwimmer04]

@@laraoneal7284 LOL that is not child abuse, and people wonder whats wrong with this younger generation welp you just answered it.... god damn your generation is so weak it's not even funny. Cry harder next time

[@albtckl]

​@@laraoneal7284depending on how long ago it was it could have been back in the day when kids were sent to do stuff on their own like that regularly. Kids didn't used to be watched like a hawk 24/7 like they are now with their helicopter parents.

[@laurasalo6160]

I used to hike from my backyard thru the wooded trails to the lake all the time (all around the area) as a 8-12 yr old kid with my siblings. Built forts, wandered the woods. Never even crossed my mind we may get lost... i remember knowing every stump and bend in the trail, and every patch of ferns... Kinda freaks me out now to think of it. Times were different- this was only in the late 80s early 90s too.

[@russlehman2070]

First story: Having done some backcountry skiing in the Colorado mountains, I can say that in the winter it is a very hostile environment, especially if you get off trail in bad weather. Even with skis or snowshoes, it's very difficult and exhausting to move through deep, untracked snow, especially in dense timber, and it's nearly impossible without skis or snowshoes. Blowing snow can reduce visibility to near zero and can erase tracks in a matter of minutes. Cell phone and GPS are only useful for as long as the batteries hold out, and cold temperatures reduce battery life.

[@lh3540]

Yeah. And you can get snow blindness and migraines if you're not wearing the correct eyewear. I'm a state local and I don't usually plan on being out for more than an hour. You're right, you can drain a phone battery in an afternoon if it's too cold.

[@jmfs3497]

It is so much easier to get lost than people ever expect. I've got turned around in an urban forest once, and while I wasn't "lost" I was surprised that I emerged from the woods in an unexpected side of the woods. I could have sworn I was heading 90-degrees in a different direction. I ended up deciding to walk around the perimeter of the woods back to my car, rather than back through the forest since I wasn't positive what route got me where I was. And I had thought I was on the right loop up until that moment.

[@KaliKali-hv9bt]

Where is the urban forest!?. I want to try😊

[@robertknowles2699]

I got lost w/out a compass, locally maybe 2/10 mile from road gathering firewood. Sound of cars turned me back to road. But what if no car?

[@jonlannister345]

It can be pretty interesting, if you have everything with you and no deadline. One thing I've been thinking about with a lot of these stories is people have a grand plan, and if the plan is deviated from even a little then people panic and die. In my experience of taking everything with me and picking a direction, getting lost isn't stressful or dangerous in that situation, you just go slow and steady and stick to the overarching plan (stay calm, go steady, rest when needed, shelter when needed). When you have a definite plan of movement and it goes wrong though, there's that strange panic response kicks in. It seems like quite a lot of hikers have died because their plan goes wrong, then they panic, whereas if they'd been content to stay calm and follow along the new path then they'd have probably been fine, especially people who have days worth of food and ways of getting water. Always baffling to hear about people dying of exposure after running in circles just a few feet from a trail, with water and food in their backpack. Exhaustion, dehydration, brought on by panic leading to death, rather than the elements getting them directly. The insistence modern people have not to use wool or furs, even in extreme cold, is also a huge factor. Without wool and furs if you get soaking wet in the middle of the woods in the middle of winter, you will die; even if it's not that cold. Wool and furs will keep you alive or even warm and thriving even when soaked through. People will even go up Everest wrapped in huge layers upon layers of polyester and expensive fabrics, while the locals climb the mountain in well fitting clothing made of traditional material, being neither restricted, nor worried about getting wet (because wool and fur work even when wet)

[@kaypyles9441]

The 3 items missing from Nelson's campsite were more valuable than regular camp gear; I think someone happened on the site & took them! You would think, if they saw his body, they would report it, unless they were afraid of being implicated in his death? But then again, if that's the case, they wouldn't have taken his articles to begin with! 🤷‍♀️

[@no_peace]

Also if he did take any of it off, they may have seen the items but not the body. Really anything could have happened

[@TheRunAndGun10]

A body becomes extremely flat pretty quickly and are commonly missed by searchers, even more by those not looking for a body. Add in animal predation and a body gets even more difficult to recognize. The gear could have been picked up thinking it was lost or abandoned.

[@matildagreene1744]

We had a hiker disappear (northern Rockies) two summers ago. A solo hiker. A young lady who supposedly was taken by a rock slide, though the area was searched many times and she wasn't found and then weeks later, she was found under some rocks. That area is FULL of rocky hillsides though an actual 'slide' in my opinion was odd. When you encounter one of these rock covered hills...you don't try to climb them. We have creepers here, just like in any city. Locals suspected foul play but it was swept under the rug. I've hiked next to many of these types of terrain. Even if she did climb up a little, it's not enough to cause a slide. I've done it many times, thinking I spotted a crystal or something.

[@chip9177]

Red Lodge

[@spjr99]

Your logic is flawed. Just because you have been there and not seen a rock slide doesn't mean it isn't possible

[@lh3540]

Colorado. I run a ton at Denver's elevation, and I know I'm not at all conditioned to be up in the back country, this year. If you're going to do that you need to spend some weeks in one of the ski towns first. People of all fitness levels wreck themselves by skipping the acclimation process. I'm also convinced a lot of our deaths are from moose. It's completely plausible for someone to get trampled or seriously injured by moose near lakes. That last guy might have gotten his gear wet and set the electronics out in the sun to dry or something.

[@Two.gingers.adventures]

you didn't mention it but I've heard Susans story before and she was missing clothes. She passed from hypothermia and probably the first person too. When this happens you become very disoriented which is probably why they didn't do the logical thing to get help.

[@nck4888]

Man so many many folks go missing in these mountains of Colorado, maybe I should start a touring service so these out of state folks don't die when they come to visit, they need a local with them.on their hikes

[@Metal_Horror]

About the first death: it is extremely common in cases of hypothermia for the sufferer to experience sensations of abnormal heat, to the extent that they remove articles of clothing. I'm very surprised that you don't mention this, especially when you *did* mention the probability of hypothermia playing a role. The missing clothes may seem surprising at first, but when you've seen so many cases of people getting lost or stranded in the cold, it makes perfect sense.

[@easypeezie4494]

How much guilt do you think the daughter lives with for leaving her mother? That’d be hard for me to live with

[@igotboredbutcouldntthinkof8018]

I thought this. Devastating

[@konstantine381]

I couldn't imagine leaving my mother on her own like that. She will live with that guilt for the rest of her life and I can't say it isn't deserved

[@konstantine381]

@Zenith-pq7qh a conscious decision to abandon someone isn't what i would call an innocent 'mistake'

[@x77punk77x]

@Zenith-pq7qh Look, the way I grew up, you do NOT leave an elder loved one just because you’re bored or impatient, particularly in unfamiliar/unsafe settings. And I’m sure many others feel similarly so ffs stop policing what you think we should think by imposing what YOU happen to think. I bet I can guess your age range based off these comments, good lord.

[@laurasalo6160]

Susan Clements daughter has made a couple youtube videos about her mom's death and the search/aftermath. Heartbreaking. I think its called "my mom died". Her channel name is Elizabeth Clem

[@lisalynnn]

I'm from one of the smaller mountains in Tennessee. We've hiked the Forney Ridge Trail other trails in the area numerous times. Most of the trails that attract tourists and day hikers are pretty easy. The number of other hikers varies depending on the time of year. It's busier during the summer months because people are on their vacations. Though it may seem silly to some people, my first thought was bears because this happened at the end September when the bears were preparing for their winter denning. She could have interrupted one trying to nestle in a hollowed tree or caught the attention of an aggressive bear. Attacks are rare, but they do occur. One could have easily chased her, and she ran off trail to escape becoming lost. My second thought was a sudden onset of altitude sickness. I don't think many people understand how high the elevation is in the Smokies and others may not even know about altitude sickness. I've never experienced it in the park, but I sure did in Colorado! I went from just having a slight headache to having almost every symptom possible in less than an hour. I had to go to the hospital for treatment. My friends said that I was talking nonsense and kept trying to climb up on a really tall, crumbling rock pile. I'm normally a pretty chill person, but they said that I was belligerent and irrational. My friends were able to get me far enough down the mountain for a ranger to take over. I remember nothing about that entire day. I was confused for a few days as well. If Susan wasn't acclimated to the higher elevation, altitude sickness could be a reason for her ending up that far away and in such an unusual place. It can cause brain swelling, so it's not beyond plausibility. I read that the coroner's report lists her cause of death as hypothermia. It can get quite cold during the day up in the mountains. Occasionally, we've worn jackets on summer days. As it gets into the fall months and nearing winter, temperatures drop drastically especially in the evening and at night. A mixture of mistakes and possible impairment could be the cause of her being in such a strange area. It's all very sad regardless of how it happened.

[@musingwithreba9667]

I always question my next trip when you start these stories with "they were an experienced hiker..." 😮 and wonder if I should carry blazing tape. I guess this is why my family is always scared when I head out there. But they dont even follow your channel or know anything about backpacking! I have an SOS satellite device, and I'm "an experienced hiker..." 🫣 It's so easy to get disoriented and turned around sometimes. I went in circles for over an hour on one trail because the damn beavers had taken down the tree with the blaze on it and built a dam that obliterated the trail. I just kept heading back to where I'd seen the last blaze and kept trying again and again. I ended up bushwacking across the dam and a bunch of blowdowns until I found that ribbon of dirt...I wonder if they've cleaned that up... It's frustrating to not know what happened to them, but I'm sure we can all picture it. 😢

[@notquiteultralight1701]

I’m a really big fan of actual usgs topo maps. 7.5 minute. I know i know… all the 20 and 30 somethings are gonna say-- not again!! We like our phone map apps or whatever they use. Phones die. Maps show a bigger picture of features so you can do some in land dead reckoning to help you figure out where the hell you are. Just sayin!

[@musingwithreba9667]

@notquiteultralight1701 Well, I'm a Gen X'er, and I quite like paper maps as well. But the trail I was on at the time doesn't have one! I was in a non-operating (i.e., not maintained) Provincial Park. The local trail association has digital maps tho. They still don't help if the beavers decide to redirect the waterways 😉

[@TheMissPoovey]

It’s like at the lake, the reports of accidents always start with …” jumped into the water…” Never jump into unknown water. Ever. Even in the middle of the lake. Half submerged logs and waterlogged debris float just out of sight frequently.

[@shlee-shlee]

I had a lot of fun reading your comment as a nonhiker and more fun as an Australian realising that beavers could change the landscape. Wow, I'd love to see that.

[@musingwithreba9667]

@@shlee-shlee and they do it all the time! There is a video online currently of an enterprising beaver creating a dam on the shore near downtown Toronto! Completely paying no attention to the humans making the now viral video 🤣

[@SusiesRepeat]

The Dr can’t have been that experienced if he split up from his friends. That is one of the biggest NO NO’s of hiking.

[@ohsweetmystery]

Many experienced hikers hike alone.

[@davidbeckenbaugh9598]

I believe that is a moderately traveled trail that would have had a path well beaten through the snow. He also had a GPS device that would have helped him keep to the trail hd it been obscured. In that regard, since he would have been on the trail at all times (supposedly), this is not a very hazardous area. Punch through and bend your knee? Get in your overnight gear and wait for someone to come along. And being alone is NOT the biggest 'NO, no' in hiking. Failing to prepare is the worst. While getting ahead of my group one day to run from one trailhead to get our car at another, I came across two people heading in. My group was racing a storm, so to speak. It was early November and the weather on the fifth day of a five day hike was dropping a storm on us. Anyway, these two people had very small day packs and were wearing cotton sweat clothes.... Now THERE is a disaster coming on full tilt. and they asked me how much time it would take to get to 'Bear Lake'. I had to think a minute until I realized they were not even in the right drainage. The Bear Lake trailhead was 22 miles away! They said I must be lying and walked past me. My friends met them about 1.5 miles in and they were absolutely soaked and hypothermic. So bad they could not get back to the trailhead. My group set up shelters and started a big fire. One person continued on and met me at the trailhead. I was getting worried as my group was over an hour overdue. We had to go get SAR as we could not get them through the weather. I think that proper clothing would be definite plus. But cotton sweats were the highest rated 'no-no' you can ever think of... Not to mention not even knowing where you are or where you are going. Talk about 'unprepared'....

[@baxpiz1289]

@@davidbeckenbaugh9598 what are your top 5 must-have pieces of gear, & what is an unlikely one that few people bring?

[@davidbeckenbaugh9598]

@@baxpiz1289 My first is not a piece of gear, it is informing someone else about where you are planning on going, and any possible alternates. And very little is 'must have', it depends on the trail, terrain on the trail, expected weather, possible weather, time of your, time of day in many cases. Health and ability factors in. And the 'ten essentials misses the eleventh essential, toilet paper.... and that would be one of my five 'must have' pieces IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES. So, in effect, there is no answer to your question. But, geez, go with the military on that one. "Take care of your feet and they will take care of you".

[@cleanerben9636]

I think he was arrogant, wanted to go boarding and then got lost.

[@elihouse1994]

I always get such an eerie feeling when I look at pictures of James McGrogan. You can tell he met a very tragic end. As always, very interesting! I recently subscribed.

[@allisonmarlow184]

All three of these stories makes me thank goodness that you hike with a "buddy." Whether it's Flossy or that crazy funny guy with the flowered shirts, you always have someone experienced with you whom would know relatively quickly whether something happened to you (notwithstanding a cell phone and gps/sos tracker.)

[@ritalawson7020]

Wear bright colour clothes may help

[@csg2745]

Although these stories are pretty well known I really like your take on them and your presentation style. It’s nice to hear the perspective of an expert.

[@jackdundon2261]

I live in Western Oregon. It's kind of like a rainforest out here and incredibly thick brush and incredibly tall jack and mountains. I go on deer hunts sometimes I'll take somebody with me like my wife or a friend and they call my hunts death marches and I go easy on them. I do believe a person scared with adrenaline to go ahead of a long ways to really bad brush before become overcome by exhaustion

[@edgeon5801]

Never go hiking with these 5. things, 1. A large caliber pistol/rifle, 2. A locator beacon, 3. Bear spray. 4. An emergency sleeping bag that's like an emergency blanket.5. Some sort of snowshoes,skis, or snowboard. Caemse 1. It's very much a missing 411 case.

[@alysononoahu8702]

With or without?😢

[@Tejonesss]

You gotta do more of these videos cuz I like your input cuz you’re also a hiker and you can give a better perspective from the victims possible perspectives cuz you know about the terrain and what’s normal to bring where and what not. Plz do more mystery or true crime videos!

[@billyshears921]

I remember the story of the hiker in the Great Smoky Mountains. She had to have become totally disoriented on the bald, however, the 1.2 mile hike to Andrew's Bald is marked well and heavily used. On her return, she must have taken a left onto Forney Creek Trail or continued further on Forney Ridge Trail, both of which descend into the dense forest for miles.

[@lorimac0260]

So if this ever happens to me (it won’t) please note that it won’t be due to “drugs or something.” Some people, like me and possibly this WOMAN, are born without a sense of direction! 😅

[@lisaburns235]

Maybe she just panicked being on her own and got lost. Why do people always have to blame it on drugs or something.

[@michaelosgood9876]

You don't get lost this severely in the bush by taking drugs dude. Grow up!

[@robertknowles2699]

Sometimes I become lost missing a road sign in my car. Intersections should be marked in both directions and a glance I would sense new trail off former one. Driveing car we are too self reliant and isolated and overconfident from false speed. Mom always has compass in her car, which helps even w a Map.

[@paxundpeace9970]

She was found of trail. She probably continued the AP-T heading west after she missed the trailhead.

[@videosdeecologia7468]

A few observations.... I've been watching a lot of videos of hikers who never made it home. Mistakes are repeated: getting separated from friends, leaving the trail, hiking in the snow or for the first time without a guide or GPS, following a river when you get lost, etc. But in some cases it can be suicide... Hypothermia makes people take off their clothes... Trails that divide are a danger... Sometimes people suffer a heart attack etc,.on those occasions under stress, if they get lost... This would explain some disappearances... Some items are sometimes stolen after the death of backpackers...

[@ithacacomments4811]

I live in New York State. My boyfriend went to Colorado for a year. He was from the Midwest and wanted to experience the mountains. He was not an experienced outdoor person. One day, soon after he arrived in Colorado, he calls me saying that he can't breath. I asked him what he had been doing??? He said that he had hiked up a mountain 14,000 ft elevation yesterday. I told him to go to the ER immediately! ....that most likely he was struggling with altitude sickness.

[@williamdiedrich3729]

In 2000 I did a late March solo backcountry ski trip to the Eiseman Hut, which was the 10th Mountain Hut System's newest hut at the time. Three points: 1) On March 14th, it's essentially mid winter conditions - the trailhead is at 8300 ft elevation, the hut is at 11,200 ft. You don't "hike" up to the hut at that time of year, you skin up or snowshoe up. My trip was late March of a very warm winter, and even then I had to put my skins on by 8600 ft. Dr. McGrogan was either on snowshoes (not mentioned in the video) or on his skinned up splitboard (that's the whole point of a splitboard, that you can climb on it w/o having to bring snowshoes). 2) 10th Mountain trails are we'll marked and well traveled - in mid March, the huts are pretty much full (Eiseman Hut has room for 24), so there's been a fair amount of traffic on the trail. 3) I-70 is just south of you - It's visible for much of the hike, and you can also hear the traffic noise for quite awhile, which makes navigating even easier. So it's REALLY weird what happened to this guy.

[@johnhumphrey515]

Love your missing hiker segments, please keep them coming!

[@KyleHatesHiking]

oh i will, as long as you keep watching

[@johnhumphrey515]

@@KyleHatesHiking Deal

[@jeremiahjohnson9908]

Some people, for whatever reason, have a terrible sense of direction....so much so that a mundane task such as leaving the trail for a potty break may lead to their demise. Remember the older lady who was hiking the Appalachian, was on the phone with her husband, told him she left the trail to relieve herself and got lost and eventually died...fully geared with food, tent, bag etc.

[@rrichardson53]

Love how you cover these stories….fast paced and concise! Keep ‘‘em coming.

[@KyleHatesHiking]

appreciate you watching!

[@katfromthekong414]

​@@KyleHatesHikingI saw you kicked 200000 subscribers in the butt! Congrats! ✊🏼

[@l7846]

Nelson's select equipt taken.I agree. Someone/s found and just took, hopefully not having a clue about the bidy nearby. Or maybe knowing and feeling freaked they might be blamed. Or. Bear and/ raccoons are more advanced there than we imagined.

[@kitfisto1827]

The first case is most likely just mental decline and "paradoxical undressing" resulting from hypothermia.

[@paxundpeace9970]

Still 5 miles away beyond a high ridgeline is quite far away to be honest

[@gordongarrett6229]

Bullshit

[@brianwhite8593]

Damn I’m starting to understand why Kyle hates hiking😂 i also think the doctor might of been chased by something that made him leave the trail and eventually his gloves and jacket but his shoes are a different story altogether i can’t imagine any reason to take them off except hypothermia which would also explain the other clothes but all those 411 cases are spooky weird

[@lonesparrow]

He might have gone off-trail to go snowboarding. The powder looked good and it was hard to resist. I read a book called "Deep Survival" and in the first chapter it talks about how people make emotional decisions instead of logical ones in that situation (like "wow snowboarding down that mountain would be fun") and end up dead.

[@marauderhot]

Never hike without a PLB, I have one and my dog has one that I hopefully could activate if needed. I have the small floating type made by ACR.

[@ohsweetmystery]

Yes, poor people should never go hiking.Or perhaps should just starve themselves for a month or two so they can afford such a device.

[@baxpiz1289]

@@ohsweetmystery forest:

[@ratgirl13]

I’m not outdoorsy nor have I ever been hiking-but I find your video’s interesting and yes Kyle I’m subscribed.🙃

[@rickbursell7204]

Congrats on hitting 200k mark

[@ArcaneSpells]

CAMP CHAIR, KYLE

[@KyleHatesHiking]

thank you!

[@lindaohanraha-hanrahan2817]

Ditto! I’m really enjoying the channel. I can tell you do your homework.

[@BasementPepperoni]

You failed to mention the most confusing thing about Doctor James McGrogan, he was 4.5 miles away from the original trail as the crow flies, but supposedly he personally hiked 12-14 miles through extremely deep snow, up to 8 feet deep in some places. Also, he had multiple severe injuries that indicated that he fell from somewhere very high, half of his head was smashed in while wearing a helmet, the left side of his chest was smashed in and he had a broken femur. He would have had to have fallen more than 300 feet to have gotten that kind of fall damage and there were no cliffs anywhere near that high where he was found. Lets also not forget that he supposedly did this barefoot, with no jacket or gloves. He would have had signs of or severe frostbite after hiking that many miles through snow that deep. Oh, and even better than that, the route that he "hiked" was also an increase of 1200 feet, off trail, all while not realizing he was going the wrong way. Either he was murdered by his friends, Bigfoot, or Aliens. His death was no accident.

[@Lupinotuum66]

That's freaky

[@AnneHollowell]

Truth!!

[@melsafken764]

I wouldn't rule out forest rangers. I have been surprised by them walking up on me.

[@vicariousjourneys]

Incorrect. They know he encountered an ice fall and fell hundreds of feet. His jacket was in his backpack. Who says he was wearing gloves or whether what he was wearing was lost before he fell and not after? Possibly animals or someone took his gloves and/or boots after his death. You simply don't hike in 8 ft deep snow! He would have been on skis or such.

[@marysisak2359]

I vote for bigfoot

[@jantefft2442]

Kyle, thank you for the history/stories of those who became missing on their hikes; very interesting and more than likely valuable information for future hikers. We all never know what we would do if we were faced with being lost in the wilderness.

[@jethrobodine4638]

great video! as an outdoor enthusiast/hunter for many years i have learned that nature is nothing to take lightly. i never understood why people would hike alone? mountains have so many dangerous terrains so an injury could prove deadly. not to mention wild animals that can kill you. i have been out in Colorado, Wyoming and weather there can change in a heartbeat. I built trails when i was just out of high school in Yellowstone. we had strict rules for our own safety. I have also hiked in the Smokies multiple times to Andrews Bald. when people leave the trail they are asking for trouble. GPS, snacks, water and basic tools for survival are a must, even on short hikes. i have cycled alone at times, but i always have GPS and my watch that will alert family if i was to have a fall. these are tragedies that did not have to happen.

[@KJ6EAD]

Lot's of people buy a variety of navigation tools but never develop the knowledge and skills to use them effectively. The same is true for communication devices and every other bit of equipment that could be used to prevent their death in wilderness conditions.

[@jhy8212]

My boyfriend and I recently went hiking on some pretty remote trails in the Smokeys not too far from where Susan disappeared. Its always a concern that we are going to end up on one of these lists.

[@drewh5823]

The one theory I have seen on Clements, is that she made it almost all the way back, but missed the turn to hike back up to the parking lot at Clingman's Dome. She then hooked up with the Appalachian Trail and continued west, eventually leaving the trail heading south to where she was found.

[@KyleHatesHiking]

oh this could be, interesting theory

[@Tikicat83]

Looking at aerials (from Western Australia) this is highly plausible. She sounds as though she was tired and disorientated,, and after working out she was lost headed down gradient to her end. Our long distance walk trail, in the Bibbulmun Track, has its sleeping huts placed down short spur trails. I myself have missed the sign posted side trail at the end of a long hike, when tired and in failing light. Luckily my experience and logic tells me some time after missing the spur trail, to go back and slowly and carefully look for the spur trail. One of my brothers who I was walking with, and who is less experienced, wanted to go ahead and was less cautious, missed such a spur trail, at sunset time. I went looking for him, following his nfoot steps, but could not find him and began to be very concerned. He eventually stumbled into camp after using arrow markings i had scrapped into the ground to find his way back.

[@drewh5823]

​@Tikicat83 The first time I heard about this case was from a KZbin video the daughter posted. She gave the impression that she stayed with her mom for much of the hike back. I hiked this trail a couple years ago with my family. I could see how someone might miss that turn.

[@glazedham682]

I do competitive orienteering, which is basically running a race through the woods to find points with a paper map and compass. Some legs between points can vary from a hundred meters to several kilometers. One of the techniques we do is pace counting, in which you count your steps at a constant stride. So say you have a 1 meter stride and you've been fairly consistent in speed for the leg, you should have a good ballpark of how many meters you've traveled. We do this to avoid overshooting the point we are trying to locate. In the wild that has challenges (elevation, brush density, etc.) but for a trail it should be damn near the actual distance you've traveled. You won't be exact, but you'll know if you've passed your target with a reasonable margin for error. Also I cannot stress enough having a basic magnetic compass and paper topographical map, and understanding how to read said map. Even if your compass isn't working you can use the information on the map about the terrain and landmarks to orient yourself. GPS is nice and all but people should really learn the basics first to properly appreciate the modern tech.

[@paxundpeace9970]

The most probable conclusion mssing intersection even bigger one is a huge issue.

[@WesB1972]

I live 10 miles from the Smoky Mts Nat. Park. It is a huge area with rough dense terrain. You can get 20 feet of the trail in some places and get turned around and be completely disoriented. Best advice, don't hike alone and don't split up. The park is a wilderness add very unforgiving.

[@leapheap6837]

The biggest mystery was story #2. How do you get lost 2.5 miles from where you started and die shortly after?

[@Word187]

Go off trail to use bathroom. Gets disorientated and can't find the trail. It's a pretty reoccurring theme in allot of lost hiker stories.

[@aazhie]

People think 2.5 miles in terms of driving biking or line of sight kind of ways. 2.5 miles down a sheer cliff or along a winding creek is a while different story. You may not be able to hear someone shouting from that far away, depending on terrain. It's definitely strange, but extremely common that a lot of folks die less than a few miles from their cars, or from a familiar trail.

[@starlaadams1605]

What actually caused her death? Was she alive for days or did she have an accident?

[@CytrisMonster]

@@aazhie Also it's pretty standard advice that if you get lost you should stay put and wait for help (instead of trying to find your way back and getting further off trail and lost). Unfortunately, that advice sometimes results in hikers dying very close to where they got lost, because they decided to wait for a search party that either missed them or didn't come in time.

[@krystalb0385]

@@starlaadams1605 I was wondering the same. He never said the cause of death… only that they found her body.

[@nolasaintsfan]

I know Andrew’s Bald well. I’ve hiked it many times. And I’ve slept on the bald (illegally) one night.. the bald of the mountain is a large clearing, with a gorgeous view of valleys and mountains as far as the eye can see…depending on the time of year, this trail can get very overgrown - sometimes it’s difficult to remain on the trail. Because of the thick trees and grass, sometimes it’s hard to see that the next step is off the side of the mountain.. seriously! Andrew’s Bald is different from most trail’s because you start at the top of the mountain, and hike downwards to the Bald. Meaning to return to the trailhead you have to hike up…that can be disorienting.

[@randybeard6040]

A small GPS Locator Beacon carried with you while Hiking is a Must if you Go to Unknown areas, even if you go to known areas, you could get turned around and Panic...

[@nabi5864]

I've been Solo hiking for almost 45years...Some people bring up bizarre off the wall theory about some monster creatures or UFO...Well I will say that I pack heat and the only time I took it out of my chest holster was when I came across some creepy strange HUMAN riff-raffs living in the wilderness ... They were carrying knives ...I got touch with Rangers but they never were able to figure out who these people were

[@Phoenix-J81]

My neighbor went missing last year on a fishing trip. He fell into the river and they never found him. Out here in Idaho, and it's odd because he was extremely experienced. His friend said he "went for a swim, and got into trouble." (Which also doesn't make sense, he never did anything like that) Just odd and I feel terrible for his family.

[@LeveretteJamesClifford1955]

The moment Susan Clements went missing, my wife and I as well as my cousin and his wife were at the Clingman's Dome parking lot. We were unable to go on any of the trails because my wife had cancer. My cousin and I went to the former rest room turned bookstore and talked to the two workers there for about 20 minutes and left promptly at 5pm because that was the time that the book store closed and the two workers were anxiously waiting to leave to go home. According to the time that I have read that Clement's daughter came to get help, which would have been at that store, we must have just missed her. My reasoning is that she must have gone to the bookstore is that when my cousin and I left, the fog, or rather a low cloud covered the top of the mountain and the cloud was so thick that you could not recognize a person walking toward you until you literally got within a couple of feet from them. Finding a Ranger would have only been by accidentally bumping into him/her, but the bookstore would be easily found by following the concrete path. This photo was taken of us when we first arrived at Clingman's Dome parking lot, behind us is the direction east toward Andrew's Bald. facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10219830130289390&set=pb.1404026378.-2207520000.&type=3 The thick cloud cover is probably why Susan became disoriented. We did not know anything about her going missing until the evening that we got home, three days later. Because we had been there I followed the story closely on my computer. I learned that Susan had dressed lightly and did not have a warm coat. Also, her daughter did communicate by putting videos on You Tube that were titled something like "My mother is missing." kzbin.info/www/bejne/eH7NiWCaZ7GIp7c I feel certain that the cloud not only made her lose her way, but also caused her windbreaker to become saturated with cold water, causing her to suffer from hypothermia perhaps even before her daughter was able to report her missing. I have hiked that area along the Appalachian Trail twice and have hiked to Andrew's Bald three times. In good weather, the trails are very hard to hike, especially near the parking lot so without being able to see the trail clearly and having hypothermia, add exhaustion to that as well. When they found her, she was naked, and had fallen down a very steep slope in thick mountain laurel which the old mountain people called Laurel Hells. Those are more bush than tree with many branches reaching out in all directions. To me, it is amazing that they found her at all. He body was covered in contusions. Still keeping up with the search for her, the local television news in Knoxville and Cincinnati carried a video of recovery showing how difficult it was. www.wbir.com/article/news/local/crews-used-helicopter-to-recover-body-of-missing-hiker/51-600544686

[@channabrennon2017]

But why naked? That is so suspicious

[@seriouscat2231]

@@channabrennon2017, seems like 95 % of people reading these are not interested in good explanations but speculation, histrionics and airs of mystery. There are many good reasons why she could be naked, with nothing suspicious in them.

[@michaeldeane6600]

What are the 'many good reasons' for her being completely naked? There is also a complete lack of 'good explanations' to many of these deaths. An example was emphasised by a commentator above concerning the death of Dr Mc Grogan.

[@seriouscat2231]

@@michaeldeane6600, I forgot to say, but the real problem is that these "ooh, so mysterious" do never add anything to the discussion or to anyone's knowledge. It's purely histrionic. "Look at me, I'm suspicious, I ran into an air of mystery." This is like in every aviation accident video, there are a hundred "look-at-mees" saying how "regulations are written in bloooood".

[@seriouscat2231]

@@michaeldeane6600, a million different things can happen to a man, but a woman can only ever be kidnapped and r4p3d. Such is the logic most of the time.

[@Sirshackleton]

Kyle, you and Flossy need to take another hike together. You two are sooo entertaining together!😊 It’s great to see your channel really growing!😊

[@lakedog7313]

Great video, Kyle. Odd stories and I appreciate the work you put into them.

[@SinC7777]

Just came across your videos and I enjoy your delivery very much so I subscribed and hit that like. GB 😊

[@BraaapoholicBob]

I’m not a hiker, I am an off-road rider. It’s very typical for me to ride alone in remote areas. I 100% always have my Garmin in reach mini with me. This device with its satellite SOS connection can save your life. I would never ride without it. it is worth every bit of cost to have the peace of mind that comes with it.

[@microgreensgrower3946]

The first story you told about the Dr reminds me of so many stories that David Palades tells in his books, & youtube channel.

[@lisahoshowsky4251]

Story 1: we camp in an area where out of three cell phone carriers only 2 have coverage. While he may have been able to still make an emergency call his carrier may not have had coverage allowing him to text, call, use data, etc. He may not have thought he was in enough of a life threatening situation to take that final step and call the emergency line. Quite possibly by the time he truly realized he was unable to get himself out of it it was too late and he might not have been in the right mind to call anymore, it seems like he was maybe paradoxically undressing. I do think unfortunately a lot of people are unwilling to get emergency services involved until it’s often close to being too late, whether due to ego, afraid of a mark on their reputation, etc. I don’t know him but he seemed prepared which may have lead to a bit of overconfidence in thinking he could get out of a bad situation without drawing attention to it and then it was just too late. Just a theory, take it with a grain of salt.

[@orionkelly552]

5:15 So long as he was tracking through fresh snow and there was no snow accumulating, following your footprints back is a pretty straightforward solution. If there’s a bunch of tracks through the snow, or snowfall accumulation covers your tracks, it would be very easy to lose your bearings and potentially go the wrong way.

[@freedomartwork6950]

Since the doctor had his helmet on, I wonder if he came across an irresistable slope to snowboard, and then something happened - maybe attacked by a moose (which might account for his injuries) or fell, tried to hike out but got disoriented & lost, then hypothermia took over from there.

[@GregoryWorth-m6l]

Thanks for covering these stories. There are definitely logical explanations for many for many of these disappearances. Think about it when you lose something it does not matter how many places you look, you will find it in the last place you had or put it. The same for the searches. It does not matter how large the search effort is. Until they look in the last place the victim was they will not find him or her. I have nothing to back it up, but IMO there is some kind of "weirdness" and in some cases evil, taking place in our National Parks. Ever since I heard about what happened to two men who were part of a group of men camping in a CA National Park I convinced myself I could find other things to do instead. Two of those men took off to go hunting I believe and ended up in a large open field. There was a row of dense trees on one side of the field that they were the closest to. Suddenly an eerie feeling seemed to settle in the area and no wildlife could be heard. Both men felt the sudden urge to head back to camp. They had the sense that they were being watched by someone or something and that who or whatever it was did not want them there. As they started walking back to camp, they literally heard footsteps coming from within the tree line. When they stopped the footsteps stopped. Suddenly a very large rock, not one just one man could easily pick up much less throw, was hurled out of the trees toward them. They picked up their pace and the mysterious footsteps did as well. More rocks were hurled out of the trees. Finally, they broke into a run and managed to get back to camp safely scared out of their minds where they told the other men to pack up because they needed to leave asap which they did.

[@allisonmarlow184]

I can't help but notice that Person #3 may have been additionally compromised by the fact that he (obviously) wasn't in the best shape and, therefore, was also carrying all that extra weight. That additional 50 lbs at altitude could really add up!

[@evansgc77]

2nd story: yeah, she definitely went the wrong way onto Forney Creek at that Y and then bushwhacked from the apex turn (on the map) towards Forney Creek and then in desperation just kept going until she couldn't anymore.... that or a Wendigo got her.

[@Gprimbs]

Bushwhacking is not a good idea up there. Lots of hard granite sticking out of the dirt, seventy foot drop offs and cliffs. Extremely rough to be off trail.

[@bladebrown8336]

I would like to see you do more of these stories they're sad and informational I'm about to turn 40 in the next few weeks, my goal is travel to Yosemite National Park in an year form now this going to be my first time doing something like this. Thanks keep up the good work

[@kazzaandrew]

I hope you have a wonderful adventure

[@Lupinotuum66]

Be careful in Yosemite, because of commercialization , it can seem like Disneyland and it's everything but that. The falls are dangerous, especially with the overly extra snow and runoff. Bring mosquito protection, there are swarms in the summer. Bears are no joke and big cats are not unknown. Not to mention the big man in the woods. Enjoy.

[@bladebrown8336]

@@Lupinotuum66 if you're talking about what I think you talkin about, like Dutch said in the Predator movie🎥 if it bleeds we can kill it. 🤔

[@AnneHollowell]

Take a personal locator beacon.

[@EffyDaydream]

The first guy probably started suffering with hypothermia, which would explain the removal of clothing. His altered state of mind probably also caused him to become confused, leading him to go off trail and get lost.

[@anitasimaganis5449]

I'm pretty sure that he didn't mention that the Dr was also found waaaay off trail over a mountain ridge

[@YOUR-LOCAL13]

But why would he take off his boots? And why were his boots never found?

[@paxundpeace9970]

Yes but not that soon. He was one and a half hour in then he went ahead. No way that be is getting problems this early. Another issue is that he 2as found 5 miles away fron the trail across another ridgeline that was well above 3000 meters with steep slopes.

[@jimhenderson387]

Wow, Kyle, 3 strange and interesting stories, and you did great job of researching and telling the stories. Thank you!

[@robynjoy4948]

Just found your channel and subbed. You do a great job telling the story of these unfortunate people. I hate hiking too. 😕 Regards from Australia.

[@susan7775]

This just goes to show that no matter how experienced one is, people are no match for nature. Hikers often rely too much on electronics and forget to take a compass and maps

[@robertestrada9643]

Really love your videos. Are you gonna do any commentary on what happened to Julian Sands on Mt Baldy, California?

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

Hey Kyle, I know you are predominately an east coast guy, but I am climbing whitney this year, and there have already been like 5 deaths on that mountain this year - big snow year - . Do you have any interest in looking into the death rate on Whitney? Might be some good safety info to spread.

[@KyleHatesHiking]

I'll have to look into it.

[@paulasanchez8038]

Good luck! This year is very different on Whitney with all the snow and run off. Scenery is amazing!

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

@@paulasanchez8038 Thanks! That's what I am hoping. Not looking forward to carrying the extra 6 pounds of snow and ice gear, but here's hoping for an early melt.

[@paulasanchez8038]

@@RAkers-tu1ey 🤞. Whitney Trail or Mountaineer’s route? Manzanar internment camp historic site is near Lone Pine and a great place to visit.

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

@@paulasanchez8038 Not sure yet. It will depend on the circumstances. We have a permit for the trail, but if it is not passable, we are in town for 5 days, so hope to get a walk on for the MR if the trails is too unsafe. Manzanar is an experience. I worked with a guy in the late 70's who said he was there, and sent away as a trouble maker. I looked him up in their records - shore nuff, there he was in several ledgers and transport logs. I can't imagine. His family lost 3 commercial fishing boats, and a paid-for house in San Pedro. He was still bitter at 62.

[@laraoneal7284]

KYLE you do a great job in researching and narrating these scenarios.

[@karidennis6154]

The first guy, was his phone charged? Or was it dead? Also, its hard to follow your tracks in the snow in forested areas, the canopy of the trees stops the snow from falling smoothly.

[@paxundpeace9970]

Not much canopy at that elavation 10000 11000ft and above