$700 vs $4000 Espresso Machine Comparison - How much should you spend on an espresso machine?

[@KyleRowsell]

You’ve been asking, so I did it! Understand that this isn’t a review but a light hearted comparison. Looking back I wish I used a glass cup to show you the texture! Be sure to watch to the end! Acting may be involved 😂

[@christopherdavis575]

I bought the Breville Oracle Touch late last year. I love the ease of use. It makes really good coffee. I couldn't afford the Bianca or any cappuccino machine in the Bianca class level but some day I would like to have one. Thanks so much for your informative video. I'm a new fan.

[@P1Fanatic]

Look at Bodum Pavoni glass cups

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

I'd personally recommend getting the Breville Infuser rather than Barista Express, it doesn't include the grinder, so you can take that cash and put it towards a decent grinder. If you bother to go through the process of dialing in the settings, it can put out some rather impressive cups.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@christopherdavis575 My personal feeling is that it's worth getting a cheaper machine and really learning to use it, if you've been using it long enough to save up for an expensive machine, then you can buy it and have no regrets. You'll know that you can afford it and have the desire to use it long into the future. A properly dialed in machine will put out great coffee, you just might be missing a small fraction of the potential and have a bit of trouble keeping up at parties.

[@llewmatthews4828]

Owned both... the taste is so different to be honest. The bianca is so smooth in comparison. The caffeine buzz from the bianca is somehow less. I used to get an irritated angry energy from the breville but I could rage it out in my manual labor job. The bianca is so pure and refined. The buzz is not harmful in any way to mood. Just energy

[@PM.0000]

I love my breville i love my breville I love my breville... I dont need a 4000 dollar machine I dont need a 4000 dollar machine .....

[@jakevan1969]

Lol

[@e4d578]

Stay that way. Trust me. Going up might seem at first marginal, but going back will horrify you. I've had that lesson from starting with Folger's coffee. Then I had good coffee and couldn't go back. And that's the story for everything thing else related to coffee.

[@kimcircagirl474]

Lol haha Yass and thankya haha

[@PM.0000]

@@e4d578 im going to take this as a sign from the universe that I should keep my breville

[@stephendenagy3396]

The higher cost machine is a lifetime purchase. Cheaper in the end. BTW in US the Profitec 500 flow control (heat exchanger style) is about $2200. That cost matches the cost of daily trips to Starbucks and my espressos are infinitely better. And it gets cheaper from there. Plus the fun of fiddling, different grinds, different flow profiles. Can’t beat it!

[@whosgonnadotcom]

I understand that comparing the bbe grinder + bbe brew vs niche + lelit is far too unbalanced, but why not use the bbe grinder for both machines in the comparison? It would seem that the biggest deciding factor in the value of the BBE would be the grinder quality. If it's not possible to pull a great shot with the BBE grinder on the Binaca, then it would seem that the value of the grinder would be worthless, and money would be better spent on something like a Breville Bambino or Gaggia Classic and a separate grinder. Thoughts?

[@atisoy83]

💯 agree

[@sAmiZZle82]

I don't think the BBE grinder would be able to produce a consistent enough grind to use on the Lelit. It'd be a waste of time comparing using this

[@whosgonnadotcom]

@@sAmiZZle82 how is it consistent enough for the BBE brewing but not the legit? Note, I'm not defending the BBE grinder at all. This would indicate that the grinder itself is possibly a waste of time/money. This knowledge would provide better context to the review.

[@Thrilos30]

Fun comparison! I started with the Barista Express and loved it. Some people will be satisfied and keep it and enjoy it for many years, others will realize how much they love the experience of making coffee at home and it will become a hobby. Great video once again Kyle!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thank you!

[@patrickgagne2491]

I mean I love making coffee, but 4000$... I think I'll keep my beautiful Breville, since I don't feel like I'll ever be interested enough to justify the expense.

[@Mark-EFMB-Combat-Medic]

Hello Kyle, great topic. About five years ago I purchased a Breville Barista Express 870. I spent zero time learning how to actually use an espresso machine and was completely ignorant with respect to how a shot should taste, or why one should taste a certain way due to any particular technique. I simply extracted 2 fluid OZ into a shot glass, poured it into a 16oz cup, added 1 oz of chocolate sauce, 1 oz of caramel sauce, and topped off the very large cup with some poorly steamed milk (which took forever BTW). I found that if I added enough milk, chocolate and caramel, I felt relatively happy with my results. Eventually the pump failed, and I decided to upgrade (somewhat). After some research and contacting several companies, I purchased an ECM, Mechanica V Slim with an additional bottomless portafilter & upgraded the steam valves with ECM, Synchronika joysticks. I selected a Eureka Mignon Specialita Espresso Grinder (chrome finish). The company (I am not sure of I can mentioned the name of the company, so I will not until I am sure that's OK with you and your channel?) I made this purchase from suggested I accept a complementary "coffee school" online espresso training program. I opted for the advanced version, however I quickly discovered I was completely lost, so after contacting the company again, they also provided me a free "coffee school" course beginner version. Over the next few days I completed the very professional video course material, complete with testing and follow up question areas. Only then, did I have a fundamental understanding of what espresso is/was, the difference between good and bad shots, how to recognize problems, solutions and most importantly how to dial in a shot that "I liked". Ii became obvious, I needed (wanted actually) a full featured espresso scale, so I purchased the Acaia Lunar Scale and began weighing my coffee in and espresso out in grams rather than espresso out by volume. Based on the "Coffee School" beginner training program, I started with a 1-1.5 ratio recipe using and 18 gram bottomless portafilter. Eg, 18 grams coffee in, 27 grams out and I selected 27 seconds extraction time because it seemed to be within range 25-30 and it was an easy number for me to remember. Per the "Coffee School" beginner training program, I made sure everything except the grind fineness was constant, then dialed in my extraction time to 27 and weight in grams to 27 by adjusting grind fineness, which took me about an hour or roughly 15 shots. The shots were so ridiculously consistent, and excellent tasting that I replaced previously used (2 fluid ounces of flavoring) with one single drop of chocolate and oine single drop of caramel. I now prefer a 6 fluid oz, Ristretto / Capuchino beverage. I then completed the advanced "Espresso School" training program which opened up an entire world of recipes and techniques that I have now been experimenting with. So in hindsight, I would say in the order of importance, the things that improved "my espresso experience" were: #1) "Coffee School" training, in conjunction with the Lunar Scale. #2) The grinder Eureka Mignon Specialita Espresso Grinder #3) The ECM, Mechanica V Slim, in conjunction with the bottomless porta filter & basket. #4) The almost instantaneous chat or voice support from the company I purchased the equipment form, when I did have questions. (Again, I would like to name the company but I do not want to break any rules). Could I have made generally acceptable espresso shots with the Breville 870? Sure, if I had completed the "Coffee School" training, used a digital scale, and used a decent grinder and had plenty of time to wait for steam and concurrent shots. But being real, "For me", proper training, excellent entry level equipment and fresh coffee has been one of the most rewarding things I have done in a very very long time. Thank you for making it to the end of this comment. BTW, my total investment in new equipment is: $3,243.75 (about 4.5 times more than my old Brevelle) The upgrade was worth every penny from my perspective. Mark Nicholson Former, US Army - EFMB, Combat Medical Specialist 1/94 FA MLRS

[@ThisAintIt435]

Respect to you for this wonderful comment, and I will note that you can feel free to mention any company. The video maker is not responsible for what the viewers write in the comments, so he won't get in trouble with any sponsors or anything. I, for one, would love to know what company you used.

[@tvm2209]

Caffeine crackhead lol nah I’m just joking. Appreciate that thorough write up boss. I find it interesting hearing different perspectives like this especially with such detail. Thanks again and stay up ❤

[@daivdormaza1987]

Bro calm down it’s just coffee… lol 😆 jk thanks for all the info actually!

[@JoshDocea]

Currently own the Barista Express. I bought it back in college so for me I loved the all in one (no need for a separate grinder and fit perfectly in my small apartment) and I still get great tasting espresso. Also love that it has PID but I do agree temp consistency is not there when pulling back to back shots. (I usually wait several min before pulling another)

[@parkercushingable]

So I ended up with my BBE because my uncle upgraded to the Bianca! Now I'm learning and pulling shots daily.

[@chase5436]

Every time I start looking into making my own coffee, James Hoffman convinces me I'm too poor to afford anything other than equipment that makes shit tasting water.

[@fminc]

Lolllkkk

[@v.m.a.d.a]

For anyone considering the Breville: spend your money on a Rancillio Silvia and a decent grinder instead. You can get by with a basic Gaggia grinder, but spend the extra couple bucks and get a Sette 270. The Silvia is the same price as as Breville, but it is a proper espresso machine for the price. The Breville's grinder is trash and shouldn't be a consideration. Get a real grinder, the Sette 270 is best for the money.

[@AcidicDelusion]

Is the rancillio rocky grinder ok to pair with the Silvia ?

[@v.m.a.d.a]

@@AcidicDelusion absolutely, the Rocky is a very capable and respectable grinder as well. You can't go wrong with either, but overall the Baratza Sette 270 is slightly better all things considered, and they are the same price (both $400). That being said, the Rocky is great for the price and not a bad grinder by any means.

[@thomuso]

Is the Bianca worth it to me? Ive had mine for about 4 months now and the dual boiler is making the whole difference, from my 12yo Rancilio Silvia. PID and the paddle. The paddle is really usefull, especially when i use darker roasted beans. Also being able to adjust water temperature is amazing. 93c for my darker roasts and 95c for light roasts. I live in Norway and we usually use a bit lighter roasted beans than most other countries. With all the adjustments possible on the Bianca, i can use lower quality beans and still get great tasting espresso.

[@Carla-hl3fm]

My husband got me the Breville for Valentine’s. I haven’t been to a starbucks or cafe since. My home espresso is better! I LOVE it. Love.

[@verbon47]

Cause Starbucks has become an brand and not a place where they love making coffee. Just go to your local coffee shop and see how they do it there. Just normal words, simple lattes and cappuccino’s. And probably cheaper

[@adamburns1077]

The machines they use at Starbucks look like super automatics to me - they might be really good ones but I just lose the image of coffee being a craft whenever I go there. Still, a blonde roast espresso will drag me through the day when it’s been a long one.

[@stevebyrne6606]

planning to buy one for my wife. sounds like its a great deal.

[@ahmed.dhaheri]

I upgraded from Breville barista express to lelit bianca. And I can say it is day and night

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for this response! Do you mind unpacking why?

[@ahmed.dhaheri]

@@KyleRowsell ok first thing is my brother owns a cafe and he hates the breville barista express specially when he used to come to my place during the lock down. Second is living with an extended family breville could not held to the high demand. Finally I fall in love with the lelit once I thought of upgrading and honestly I have zero regret

[@KyleRowsell]

@@ahmed.dhaheri awesome! Thanks for the response!

[@jasonhagen]

I bought the Breville Barista Express and I cannot pull good shots. I’m definitely thinking about returning it. I’ve been looking at the Lelit Bianca. But I would need a good grinder as well. The Niche Zero is so hard to get right now. Any recommendations?

[@andrewmcwhirter6567]

I think Breville hit a home run with the Barista Pro, which is faster, makes better steam, has the digital display with shot timer, and a grinder with better adjustment (compared to the Barista express).

[@iltsefuentes2886]

I love my Breville ! I don’t care how sexy and amazing the Lelit Bianca is. Lol

[@AndrewOvenden]

Me too... until my Breville died three months out of warranty.

[@drumsonly44]

@@AndrewOvenden 🤷🏽‍♂️ buy another one and you’ll still have money left over

[@pmhoop1]

Just ordered my barista express. New to the world of home espresso, keep the content rolling! Looking forward to learning new things and growing my understanding .

[@GadgetsGearCoffee]

I wonder how the Lelit Bianca vs Breville dual boiler would fair tho, it's got a 58mm portafilter, two boilers, 3 hole steam wand

[@KyleRowsell]

If I had a Breville dual boiler to test I’d be happy to!

[@slvrbach]

@@KyleRowsell I feel like this test would be especially interesting if you compared it with a fully modded BDB, with the rotary pump and slayer mod.

[@drumsonly44]

Not only that it’s highly customisable, pre-infusion and pressure , timed start etc

[@victormoreno2767]

If you are on the fence for Breville machine consider the dual boiler 900 series with a vario grinder, you will be surprised at the quality of the shots. I have had the Breville 900 since 2012 and it is still up an running. My coffee references are pitango coffee shop and habitu caffe. It also depend on your skills. Enjoy coffee!

[@marksmith2913]

Thanks for doing the comparison. It would be very interesting to see a double blind taste test done between these machines, (to eliminate any expectation bias) again using a good grinder. There is little doubt that The Lelit Bianca is a more capable machine but it would seem that the taste of the espressos they both produce is very comparable.

[@jacksonleach9193]

“Who do you think I am? Gayle?” 😂😂😂😂

[@KyleRowsell]

😬

[@DerekHubbard]

I seriously spit up tea.

[@v.m.a.d.a]

@@DerekHubbard TEA??? GET OUTTA HERE (I'm jk tho I like tea too)

[@bmoore5868]

This is a great approach to a purchase. Whenever I buy something I start with educating myself about the top shelf high end items and learning how to discern their differences over the mid priced item.

[@KyleRowsell]

Glad you agree!

[@bryanj.2447]

I love that you didn’t totally dog the Breville! Espresso is such a beautiful experience and you can have a beautiful experience with any of these machines if you’re willing to put in the work! I’m a coffee shop owner/coffee roaster. I have a two group Astoria Rapollo At the shop, A Lucca M58 and ECM grinder at the Roaster for espresso experiments, and then that exact Breville at my own house🤣! I don’t want some thing with a large footprint inside my own kitchen and when I make coffee at home I don’t want to pull three or four shots to reach perfection! Sometimes we just need a Americano to get us up and moving in the morning. Over many years in the industry I have been able to change my thought process of picking out what is wrong in each individual shop/machine/process, to simply appreciating the differences. It really helps me not lose my mind

[@axel.lessio]

I have the Barista Express, it's really nice. However, going back I would invest in a high end grinder and pair it with a relatively cheap espresso machine. The grind uniformity has way more impact than anything else. Even a $4k espresso machine will pull shots that have unwanted sourness and bitterness if the grind profile is bad. On the other hand, perfectly ground coffee will extract better and more consistently even with cheaper machines.

[@MusicSasho]

Which grinder would you recommend?

[@axel.lessio]

@@MusicSasho, if you can find a Niche Zero, that would definitely be my recommendation!

[@DerekHubbard]

I've been using a BBE that I bought LIGHTLY used for $300 (A serious steal.) I just ordered the Bianca this morning, and I am SO. DAMN. EXCITED. Looking forward to giving the BBE to my mother for Christmas. Nice video!!

[@eskerinola5845]

So, whats your assessment? Worth it? Cheers

[@Max-wl5ll]

how are you liking it! what grinder do you have?

[@donalmahon]

can you do a comparison video with the breville being the expensive one?

[@Random7628]

Now I'm curious to see a shot comparison using the Breville Barista's grinder.

[@rickydedos4085]

Ohh, I thought that’s what he was going to do when he said he was going to make it as fair as possible. Seems like the most logical comparison. I haven’t finished watching yet.

[@rickydedos4085]

Okay never mind. He used the same grinder for both so it’s the same.

[@KyleRowsell]

I highly considered this. But I didn't think it would be worth the extra 2-3 minutes of video. I could have been wrong. BUT I'll make a video about the Breville smart grinder pro since I have one of those and I pull some shots with that. Deal?

[@Random7628]

@@KyleRowsell Breville Barista Express owners want to know how bad the built-in grinder is compared to "real" grinders. Is it really that bad? So bad that it would compel us to buy a Niche? Maybe pull some shots with the built-in grinder, the Breville smart grinder, and the Niche, using the same machine. Use the Lelit since it pulls more consistent shots.

[@Dancingmartian]

@@Random7628 I love this idea. I just bought a Barista Express and already notice some strange things with the grinder. Major clumping, heating of the grounds, and a good amount of retention. If this can happen, Kyle, this would be fantastic. Either using the Lelit or the Barista express, but varying grinders. I am strongly considering upgrading from my express to Niche and Gaggia Classic Pro. But I'm wondering if it's worth the combined $1000 plus investment as an upgrade from the Barista Express.

[@maximepronovost3537]

"If you wanna have a party, and have all your friends over, and make shots for everybody, you're not gonna do it on this guy, you're gonna do it on this guy" Oh Kyle, when it comes to espresso... I AM THE PARTY.

[@Enrightauto]

So the real question is should you buy one without a grinder for less money then spend the difference in the grinder?

[@avaxis]

Uhhh I don’t really buy the taste test, unless it’s a double blind test. Cause you’re telling yourself even before tasting it that the more expensive machine is going to be better.

[@mnminnmn]

yep, another major seller reviewer did a 300 vs 3000 machine taste test, but using same good grinder for both. she could not tell the difference, barely guessed right. i dont think they did another blind test again for the last 4 years. hahaha tough on sales when a 300 machine puts out the same quality as a 3,000.

[@tonygibbons5]

@@mnminnmn do you have a link? Or the name of th reviewer or the machines? Thanks!!

[@beetole]

you said that a 54 mm portafilter is a drawback. a 54 mm portafilter will yield less channeling if your tamping and distribution is not perfect. la Spaziale espresso uses 54mm PFs exclusively, including their commercial machines.

[@AzizIzgin]

Really?! Didn’t know that:) And to think I hesitate buying the lelit grace pl81t due to it only having 57mm instead of 58 due to everyone saying it is not as good as 58 due to it not holding the heat as well as for example the bigger model pl91t..

[@beetole]

@@AzizIzgin have you seen their website?

[@AzizIzgin]

@@beetole not sure, I’ve checked so many sites now and also seen others that have bought these machines and posted on KZbin. There’s 1st line equipment that sell them, they also do a few reviews on the machines. But mostly I go with a bit of research and recommendations. Any thoughts?

[@AzizIzgin]

Actually there’s the Anna2, the Grace and the Victoria. All comes with PID although the last one is the only with 58mm in that price range

[@elwyn14]

It's a good comparison, personally I was between the Breville dual boiler and profitec pro 600, I went with the profitec, the value ended up being in the overall aesthetic, I live in a small apartment and with a minimalist thought process you tend to just spend the extra money and get what you really want, making coffee is a morning ritual and you want to be using something that's beautiful.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

great choice! Grinder is super important as well.

[@elwyn14]

@@GuitarsAndSynths For sure, I still love making coffee with it every morning :) I'm no coffee expert but I feel like the grinder is atleast half of what makes a good coffee. I got the Eureka Specialita back then but I wonder if I'd go the Niche Zero or something and maybe i'd even think about a machine where i could get it plumbed in... Surely it would add value to my place if i sold it... haha

[@slurpsupcoffee8514]

This is a great video. I think you did a nice job of communicating expectations people should have with each machine. One further direction you could discuss is why more pressure in the steam wand matters. If people haven’t steamed much milk that’s probably less obvious.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for the comment!

[@Rawprawned]

I’ve had a Breville pro dual boiler for around 6 years, hasn’t missed a beat. Like the sry quick startup, programming, pre fusion, temp etc and put 5,800 cups through it. Saying that, I’m thinking of a Bianca V3, not because I think the coffee will be so much better, it won’t, mainly because of the looks, and some shot profiling. The greater return will be from a grinder upgrade and fresh coffee weekly. I don’t think people could taste the difference and even if the could, people don’t do comparative tastes between machines. It’s frankly about so you like the looks, yeah it’s pretty sweet, and how is your budget. Breville dual boiler is excellent, often in sale in Au for sub 1k

[@slicenseal2752]

Great video ! But it's kind of a strange comparison because the Breville has the built in grinder which wasn't involved in the comparison. So it really says that don't bother using the Breville grinder if you want great results. At that point why would you buy that machine when you really would want to purchase a stand alone quality grinder to go with it which of course defeats the purpose of having a built in grinder. So it comes back to those two machines being extremely far apart in general (not just in terms of cost). If you want mediocre pseudo espresso and latte's, the Breville will be just fine for many people. but they won't be able to improve the results or their skills given the limitations of the machine. You can quickly end up going down a rabbit hole with machines and grinders and be looking at thousands of dollars. You can also get good results with something like a Gaggia Classic Pro and a Baratzo Encore grinder. Then you will be able to develop real skills without being held back too much by the hardware. It won't get you to the Lelit class, but much further than that all in one Breville solution.

[@vestanpance99]

You're going a little hard on the Breville there. I think your initial observation was the right one, i.e "the Breville grinder wasn't involved in the comparison". That doesn't say don't bother using the Breville grinder, it just means it would've been a better test to use it for this comparison. You can get far better than "mediocre pseudo espresso and latte's" with the Breville.

[@WaechterDerNacht]

If i have a party and want to make a shot for everybody, i'm not gonna use coffee....

[@sandydennylives1392]

It's hard to drink coffee through a face shield and mask but I see your point.

[@stephendenagy3396]

I use the flow control Profitec 500 heat exchanger. I previously used the Bree (w/o grinder). You are right, steaming is a MAJOR problem with Breville thermoblock. Big road block. Espresso quality also MUCH better with Profitec. But...I recommend starting with the Breville, and when you are ready, make the jump. You will appreciate it better in that order!

[@hom296]

Stephen: I'm thinking about getting a Profitec 500 with flow control. How do you like yours? Are you glad that you got the flo control? Joe

[@sophierossal]

This is an awesome video! My husband got me the barista express for xmas and now we are both obsessed learning all about good coffee and is getting into a hobby! We even talked about upgrading it once we learn all the basics and mastered them haha... I see you amazon list but which is the the grinder you actually use? Do you have a video explaining whats the difference about the portafilters sizes? Im still confused about that.. new subscribers here!

[@KyleRowsell]

Hi Sophie! Thanks for the comment. I use the niche zero for my grinder. I have videos all about it ☺️ Thanks for the sub! Welcome!

[@daveculturegames7819]

What do you think about lever machines? Some people think they are better than any pump

[@KyleRowsell]

Do you have a specific level machine in mind?

[@daveculturegames7819]

@@KyleRowsell Olympia cremina

[@fLaMe98able]

Dude, how do you only have 2k subscribers? This is easily one of the best coffee channels on KZbin! Keep it up!

[@KyleRowsell]

Ah, thanks friend. Just started a few months ago, but just thankful to be here ☺️

[@fLaMe98able]

@@KyleRowsell That’s awesome! I’ve already subscribed and turned on notifications - can’t wait to see what’s up next ☺️

[@DarthJeep]

Time to compare the Breville Pro. It has significant improvements over the express model. Does the walnut finish make make the coffee taste better??

[@justy234]

Great video mate. I've been using the BBE/infuser type set up for a good 10 or so years and within the next month I should be getting my Bianca. Can't wait to try it out! I'm especially keen to try the flow profiler.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks! And you’ll love it

[@wrightjazz22]

This was a great comparison video. As someone who just upgraded from a Breville Bambino Plus to a Bianca, Kyle is 100% correct that the biggest difference will be texture, but if you’re playing with flow rate, the flavors are much more balanced and round on the Bianca as well. Breville was a great machine to learn the basics, but the quality of my shots are far superior on the Bianca. I was skeptical that this could be true, but having an E61 machine with a rotary pump makes a big difference. I got lucky and was looking for machines just as Lelit had a 20% off sale, but if your budget allows for a machine like this, you won’t be disappointed. Thank you Kyle for creating trustworthy content. Home espresso is an investment, and people like you make it easier to pull the trigger on a purchase like this.

[@playbackamusicloversjourne8620]

One thing to consider is depth of the machine. You'll need a counter 20" deep minimum for the Lelit. I went with the Breville as it's all in one and only 13.5" deep so it fit easily on our appliance cart and we didn't need to use up valuable counter space in our small kitchen. I only use it a couple of times per week however once I' got the grinder dialed in I've never had an issue in the 2 years I've owned it. Bought it on the Breville Ebay store for about $550 CAD & free shipping!

[@halimsahlan]

What's your take on pump machine like the bianca against a spring lever machine? Will there be a significant difference in taste?

[@KyleRowsell]

I believe they each have their advantages and some have personal preferences. A level machine has a lot more tactile feel to pulling a shot, and can be forgiving for a shot that isn’t perfectly “dialled in”. But you have to put “extra”effort in brewing a shot.

[@halimsahlan]

@@KyleRowsell yeah.. Definitely... I'm thinking of getting a spring lever. Currently i have the expobar 2. Very decent machine, made me many good coffee. But im intrigued by the spring lever. They keep mentioning the low pressure infusion and the shot profile with decreasing pressure at the end resulting in sweeter shots. Furthermore, a spring lever like the bezzera strega is well within budget.

[@OYeahan]

@KyleRoswell You mentioned texture. Do you think that the rotary pump in Bianca might provide better texture than the vibration pump in Elizabeth?

[@maurodelgadoo]

Great video! Excuse sir, what do you think about a 58mm entry level machine versus the Bianca. I have a gaggia classic pro machine with PID control and I ordered a niche zero grinder on March delivery. Do you think that I will have a good home espresso workflow or it's worth the money to upgrade to a dual boiler machine? Thanks for your time!

[@lastoneleft5945]

Oh congrats!!!! I bet your super stoked!!! May i ask where you purchased it?

[@maurodelgadoo]

@@lastoneleft5945 I bought the gaggia classic pro 2019 from whole latte love and the PID Kit from Mr shades online

[@lastoneleft5945]

@@maurodelgadoo perfecto 👌 thank you very much!!!!! One last question about the grinder though, where did you purchase that?

[@KyleRowsell]

Hey! I think you'll love that setup! Congrats!

[@lastoneleft5945]

@@KyleRowsell I think I'll go with his exact same set up since you're vouching for it 🤣🤣🤣 have a good day sir

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think the 1 gram difference in coffee dose could be why the mouthfeel is different.

[@JoeyVaracalli]

Why doesn’t the lelit give an option for a volumetric or timed shot seems like a ton of money for a big missing feature. If you go into most cafes the machines they use stop after a set time or certain amount of volume. If the breville at 70l has this why would lelit not include it at 3k

[@KyleRowsell]

Hey! It’s because the E61 brew group is a fully Mechanical group so volumetric controls are not availible. To add to this, many machines found in cafes also have this same reality, and many prefer it.

[@JoeyVaracalli]

@@KyleRowsell All I’m saying is have a shot timer as an option built In to the pid then use the lever for override. I installed a pid on a Silvia and the pid offers that feature seems simple to me. I think thats why breville sells more machines even in the higher price category it’s because they add features that normal people want.

[@KyleRowsell]

@@JoeyVaracalli that’s a fair recommendation! They do have timed preinfusion on that so I’m sure it wouldn’t be much harder to add.

[@JoeyVaracalli]

@@KyleRowsell yeah I guess that’s why some of these machines upset me I love my god class espresso machines but honestly I just wish some of these companies like rancilio or gaggia would lean into some of the more modern computing options. Adding a 75 buck pid controller on a Silvia adds function that you don’t really get in pro Sumer machines till a maybe a bezzara matrix which is 4x the price lol

[@Platoface]

I have watched 50 videos on all types of machines and NO ONE talks about LONGEVITY. Thank you. You were the FIRST. If I am plunking down $4k for a machine I dont want to hear it will last 2k or 5k cups of joe before it dies. I want it in YEARS. I just bought the Jura S8 but honestly I am thinking about returning it for the Lelit with the 61 grouphead. In 7 years you will not care how much you paid for it as you will feel like you are paying only for the beans and the milk which is the way it SHOULD be. The only downside is the wife likes a cup of coffee and the convenience of the superautomatics. But the HUGE downside also of the superautomatics is the cleaning supply costs and the time spent. A great cup of espresso is nice but the taste is forgotten if you have to spend more time cleaning and ordering more pricey supplies to keep it running.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for the response! And I’m glad this video helped ☺️

[@TheOnlySF49erFanInNewZealand]

I have the Breville for 8 years now and I’m at the point where I need an upgrade. I love the instant wait time to make coffee but I’m annoyed at the grinder coz I can’t get crema on different beans has the grind size is maxed out at its finest setting. I will upgrade my grinder first then I am at the moment leaning towards the Bianca for its flow control but I will have to get use to waiting 20 mins for my cup of coffee as the double boilers needs to heat up. I also came across (two days ago) the Crem One Profiler with flow control popped up so need to research some more. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Any input you have on the Crem One?

[@CNTRRNDM]

Would you say the Bianca is a good choice for a small boutique café (around 50 cups per day)?🤔

[@danmatthewtan8027]

Hey! Thinking of getting the Breville Dual Boiler, how would hold up against the Bianca?

[@slvrbach]

I would love to see this comparison too. Particularly, with a modded BDB that has the rotary pump and the Slayer mod. Basically your machine vs. Peter Russell's over on Home-barista! 😉

[@juanpoy101]

@@slvrbach can you share those mod? Is it in YT or somewhere? Im planning to upgrade my BBE in a 1year or 2. Thaaanks

[@KyleRowsell]

The BDB is an excellent espresso machine at home. You save money but sacrifice build quality and potential longevity, but there is a thriving community around that machine and it can make fantastic espresso.

[@SpressoHead]

I’ve been through the entire curve, starting with a Delonghi ($97) in 1997. In 2010 I broke down and got a BES860 and Ascaso stepless , and was amazed at the shot quality. In 2011 I upgraded to a Strega TOP and in 2021 I moved out my Rocky doserless for a V4 Nano. Couldn’t be happier. The 870 is an awesome machine. Target has them on sale for $550 right now. I DO recommend getting a decent grinder. The Breville grinder does not hold up. You’ll get great shots for around $1000-$1100, and if you’re on a budget, that’s not too bad for shop-quality drinks.

[@burggraf738]

I really hope no one clicked off before the skit at the end 😆

[@KyleRowsell]

🤫

[@duaneboxwell9137]

Love this video and your approach. One big nit: why don't you show the shot? Pull it into a clear shot glass. Describe the consistency of the heart, the body, and the crema. How do they relate to what you expect from that bean, ground that way? In a video we have access to sight and sound. While I can't necessarily pick out a good shot by sight on my home machine, I can definitely spot a bad one. You spend a fair bit of time attempting to describe the difference in textures that are present in the two white cups; it would be very helpful simply to show it.

[@halohalo1632]

How Long did u use barista express before u bought lelit bianca? After how many years did u upgrade?

[@josiahwall5059]

Did you use stock baskets? I’d be curious to compare the mouthfeel with the same baskets..

[@AndreG37]

Could you share what grinder you used ? I have the Breville and it is still working so don’t want to change it. Maybe an upgrade of the grinder would work. Thanks!

[@willyhaug549]

Finally someone who also talks about how the coffee tastes from these machines (very good!). All the bad ones about how to unpack the machine and how to use it. Those who go to the purchase of such machines know how these work.

[@TeaganAtwater]

I'd love to see a comparison between this Breville and the Bellisimo by Café cause that one is so pretty, the reviews look good, and it's priced competitively with the Breville

[@zackar5690]

watching this video while brewing my coffee with cheap nescaffe dolce gusto lumio

[@darkdraconis]

I´d rather drink puddlewater mixed with shit than any product from Nestlé tbh

[@samuelOPM]

Watching while drinking standard swedish brew coffee

[@krisbowditch827]

As long your happy with your brew, who cares 😃👍👍☕️☕️☕️

[@skidogbill]

I’m using a Rocky and Silvia. I either add a little bit of heavy cream or make a half and half flat white. Would I even notice the improvement in texture with the fat level of the dairy?

[@felipefn88]

A transparent glass you have made this video so much better! Thanks for your time doing this.

[@GadgetsGearCoffee]

Was one of your neighbors drilling something? Or is it the coffee machine making noise? I heard something in the background a few times and I kept thinking it was in my place til I paused and it disappeared. Anyone else hearing that?

[@KyleRowsell]

Hi Jess! Sorry about that. I didnt hear that, want to time stamp where you heard it?

[@angelarazzoli9801]

In Italy the Lelit Bianca costs € 2000, I paid € 1615

[@riffmeisterkl]

I have the BBE and recently upgraded to a Eureka Specialita Mignon grinder. The grinder makes a lot of difference over the built in grinder.

[@4uraska]

because of a very important phrase you said I ended up not buying a BBE .... "the grinder is more important than the coffee machine" .... I ended up buying a Eureka Mignon Specialita + Gaggia classic ...

[@axel.lessio]

Very good choice! And yes, the grinder has more impact than the machine in the final shot.

[@JBW886]

I have a little Breville bambino and have maxed out all its potential and get very good shots. If I buy a coffee at a shop it is very rare I find a place that makes it as good as what I get at home. Yet I am still left wondering how good can I make a coffee with a premium machine.

[@juanpoy101]

Would like to know if how many double shots i can do consecutively with the barista express? Let say there are pauses/breaks in between for grinding, tamping, etc

[@KyleRowsell]

If you are taking 3-5 minute pauses in between shots you should be fine. But if you hope to pull back to back it will begin to loose temperature consistency.

[@juanpoy101]

@@KyleRowsell thank you so much

[@joseguerra1910]

honestly for the common use no one will do many shots consecutively

[@kizzykay2117]

I own a cigar/smokeshop store, wanted to add an espresso machine to the store. Any suggestions you’d recommend. Our main focus won’t be coffee but would be a nice little addition

[@KyleRowsell]

A machine like the Lelit Elizabeth Dual boiler would be an excellent option.

[@limer4330]

Who do you think I am, Gail? LMAO!! I can't believe she retired. I would imagine Gail is responsible for tons of sales and not just for Seattle Coffee Gear. She said she did over four thousand videos. I may have never watched this video if it wasn't for her. That said, nice video and a video that makes me reflect back to all the money I've wasted on coffee gear to only realize I should have bought something like the Lelit at the beginning. At least if it didn't work out I could have sold it for a couple of grand. Nobody's ever gonna shell out $450 for a used Breville.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for this comment ☺️

[@pier-olivierchampagne6809]

As much as I understand that using the breville grinder would have not been fair, that exactly what I want to know. I currently own a barista express, and I won't buy a external grinder for this machine. Useless since it has one on it. But I want to know how much of an upgrade would it be to pay 4k$ for a new machine and grinder to replace my barista express ?

[@pmich]

I have a Barista Express Pro for 3 years now but looking to upgrade. I have no idea what to move up to. I'm exhausted of the lack of consistency of the shots i've pulled over the years.

[@FatNorthernBigot]

Great video. Perhaps compare them both using the Breville integrated grinder?

[@JimmyNeedsCoffee]

How about a nice grinder with bamboo plus? Will it be a better idea

[@duffmanjon]

I was using a blade grinder and aeropress and I just got a breville bambino and a turin d54. Im loving it, love the trial and error, the improvement... This is where i SHOULD draw the line, but im known to get obsessive over stuff like this... So how screwed am I?

[@natevirtual]

Is it possible to mod the Breville's grinder, say, replace the burrs among other things?

[@astronomical13]

I’ve easily purchased multiple Lelit Biancas worth of Starbucks over the last 20+ years.

[@kevindrone]

Nice hat man! Is that a coffee company hat? I think coming from the pour over world I am sold on a breville machine but maybe with no grinder attachment and I’ll splurge on a better grinder

[@Hoinya966]

Disclaimer: I know very little about espresso and espresso machines (i'm mainly pour over kind of person) What it have made a difference to tweak the the grind for the Breville (Corret me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you used the same grind for both? Or did you dial them in separately?) ? I don't know about the pressure, or flow rates of the Breville compared to the Lelit... But I'm thinking whether it would have been worth it to adjust the grind for the Breville to see if you can get closer to the texture and mouthfeel from the Lelit. And if it was achievable, what's lost? Maybe essentially trying to pull the optimum and best shot that the Breville can do, and compare that to the best shot the Lelit can do. Either way, very interesting comparison and a lot of fun! Cheers for the hardwork doing this!

[@KyleRowsell]

Hey thanks for the kind response! 😊 Yes the grinder was the same, I mentioned it was the niche zero. And yes each was dialled in specifically for each machine. So grind was different, but both dialled in with the same coffee.

[@Hoinya966]

@@KyleRowsell Ah yeah okay great! I assumed you had the Niche set to the same setting for both. But that makes a lot of sense. Good stuff!

[@Gamblor24]

Which roaster and what coffee did you use for this? I'm from Vancouver and always looking for new beans.

[@krymsynda1302]

I love rocanini's fifth avenue blend in Vancouver

[@AnaGarcia-li6gv]

Hi, can you provide a link to the grinder please?

[@LainSerrato1]

Is there anything with compatible quality to the $3000 one but smaller?

[@JoeyBeeFit]

Bro... All I need to know is what the best prosumer setup is so that I don't spend close to $3,000 on something that's going to break. I had the barista Express for 5 years with no issues and then sold it. I'm now looking for a super automatic but realized that they'll all fall apart too soon. What will give me years without the fears 😔

[@movoyemickele]

Does grinder play a more important role than the espresso machine? I mean the taste, sweetness, crema? If what you say is true I would just buy Niche Zero grinder and using a cheap Flair model as the manual espresso machine.

[@rnstyip]

Depends on how much work you want to put in. There's a lot of prep work involved with the classic Flair models that you might not want for your morning coffee.

[@movoyemickele]

It's ok, I don't mind put more effort as long as I can get the same result as the $3000 espresso machine using the manual one.

[@scottleggejr]

I would do a flair before I did either of these two machines. Budget and quality. The only thing you can cast doubt on compared to the lelit is the temp control.

[@ianmaomay1588]

Can we use the barista express on our small coffee shop?

[@dudemastermaster8944]

How small is small? And take in consideration that you will need a separated grinder.

[@ianmaomay1588]

@@dudemastermaster8944 the grinder on the barista express was not that good? It’s a small one, like 5-8 chairs.

[@dudemastermaster8944]

@@ianmaomay1588 yes the grinder is the weak spot. But it is sufficient if you only serve milk based drinks :-).

[@hani2729]

What machine do u suggest for coffee shop but isn't insanely expensive, not more than 9 or 10 k

[@KyleRowsell]

A la Marzocco GS3 if you want a single group, or a Linea mini if that’s too pricey.

[@hani2729]

@@KyleRowsell yes thank you, they are great suggestions and great prices

[@howard525]

I have a Kinu Grinder and I think it is enough for home espresso, does the Breville Bambino do the work?

[@jordans2346]

i have the bambino and its definitely small but mighty. its like the barista express but with a little more power in a smaller package. the only thing is make sure to get a bottomless portafilter ! it'll change your espresso shots exponentially ! its also good if you're making maybe 2-3 cups in the morning :-)

[@sstraubi]

I have the Brevell barista pro which as I understand it, replaced the express. I’m interested to know what you think about the pro. And, how I can pull manual shots instead of letting the machine time them since it seems to be pulling them at 15 seconds for a double shot and I feel like it should be much longer. I’m getting very sour results, and I’m also using a dark roasted been because I always thought that’s what I liked but I think it’s not the best for making home espresso...oily beans and bitter as well. Your comments are appreciated!

[@KyleRowsell]

Hey Sonya! I have another video on dialling in a Breville espresso machine. Be sure to check that out ☺️

[@sstraubi]

Your ids are great, thank you! I still can’t figure why my Starbucks latte taste same an hour later, but mine becomes undrinkable as it sits. Any ideas?

[@timzlow]

Hi, did u dial in the coffee individually for both BBE and Lelit B? They should have different grind setting.

[@KyleRowsell]

Yes I did

[@timzlow]

@@KyleRowsell great...

[@sulphuricacid16]

I bought a 200 dollar machine and it was still expensive for me

[@tonygibbons5]

Which machine? Do you like it?

[@AM2PMReviews]

Love these I made a lot of espresso with my BE and now I have a DE1pro. My BE was great for getting started. However it just broke after 5 years and I need to replace the 3 way solenoid

[@KyleRowsell]

It’s a fantastic machine to get into espresso.

[@LowsJuan]

One is an appliance as you said, like a toaster. When the breville breaks like a toaster, you throw it in the garbage. The lelit will be around as long as you maintain it. Ten, 20 years it your choice how long you want to use it.

[@lisafeeney5495]

Can the Breville be used for a low volume coffee shap/cafe?

[@maybooton1282]

So helpful! Can you compare Bianca with La marzocco ?

[@BrogenDavis33]

I've used the Breville for 6 years at 4 double shot or more a day..... its still working! the grinder is about to go out but its still alive!

[@ianabeck]

Hi I am at 4 years of 4 - 6 double shots per day. It works perfectly, will buy again when it gives up. 😊

[@breakawaygurl5145]

what's your take on lever espresso machine, like the Cafelat Robot? 😅 Is that a good machine for a beginner?

[@KyleRowsell]

Love em! Did a full video on the flair.

[@supahottfire]

Do you think the the Breville can make better lattes than the ones you get from Starbucks? I drinked an iced mocha.

[@michaelsingh843]

Hey Kyle, is the texture a result of the portafilter size or pump? The breville dual boiler would be a better comparison

[@dgkiwi]

Neither, it's about the pressure to extract the oils out of the grounds. A real espresso machine maybe 3k but you'll have it for the rest of your life, best thing ever. Breville machines are ok, just not cafe quality in every respect.

[@williambradfordreese]

Quick question- I’m in between the lelit Bianca and Profitec Pro 700. Any recommendations between the two?