Lab Notes - Successful glassware protection for sodium production - August 18th

[@NurdRage]

Woohoo.

[@sazxcdewq123]

Better method: Take light alcohol (ethanol, methanol, etc.), dissolve some magnesium metal in it, add NaOH, mix for 30 min or so, distill off most of the alcohol, add mineral oil, distill off rest of the alcohol, add magnesium and a catalyst and perform the actual reaction.

[@Anoxia4]

How about using glass bottles. Something like a cola bottle or champagne bottle heated on a oil bath(slowly to not crack the glass). Than glassware destruction wouldn't be a problem and if you were to use a glass container to contain the oil bath you could still stir it with a magnetic stirer. AG

[@isabuea]

congratulations on achieving this, buying starter metal or sacrificing one flask seems like a reasonable alternative to all other options. you achieved what you wanted to

[@NurdRage]

(I need a better username): Didn't work, it was the first thing i tried.

[@sazxcdewq123]

Soda-lime glass used for making bottles is most likely not heat resistant enough.

[@NileRed]

Really awesome stuff man! Im pretty impressed with how much you've improved it.

[@MohdAradi]

he should be getting an award for this breakthrough, now waiting on your end for the next breakthrough

[@EXTREME-DIARRHEA-BLASTING]

Mohd Aradi an award is not likely since more experienced and expert chemists already possess this knowledge. He does deserve a big pat on the back for his discoveries and the appreciation that he has shared his thought process with us.

[@OnlyKnowsGod]

NileRed you should write this up and publish in a chem journal

[@JohnDoe-rl9pp]

Did they? This seems like a meander down a very specific chemical byway, using complicated reactions to produce a product any academic, industrial or commercial lab could order on the cheap. It's also the kind of thing that would likely be journal published, in which case I can only assume that one amateur chemist or another would have found it and shared it. Unless you mean that none of the specific techniques are new, which I agree with. But most of science is like that, you rarely invent a new technique, but often find new places where the old techniques are useful.

[@sang1025com]

nile red looks like a beaker of boling bromine or nitric acid dessolving metal

[@imikla]

It cannot be overstated that this is not just a procedure found in a book, or stringing together a few reactions to an obvious conclusion. This real scientific discovery in a teaching environment, and we all get to take the course!

[@dmaster254]

I have learned more about chemistry watching shows like this than I did in three college courses and a high school course. In those classes it was all memorization. In watching these videos probably a dozen times each now, I've started teasing out patterns in the reactions and methods used.

[@andreachiarini4685]

Don't jump to fast conclusions... He is not the first who discovered that. If there is no literarure available to the public it does not mean that some company does not know that already. :-3

[@imikla]

With nothing more than the signs and omens of conjecture, this is the relevant work.

[@borttorbbq2556]

Why would a company waste its time can use electrolysis to catalize it both faster cheaper and much more effective. But electrolysis on small sail is slow and pricey.

[@runakovacs4759]

@@andreachiarini4685 Gotta love bloody companies sitting on science. Should be illegal - all must be patented and published. Patented, so they do get to profit off it commercially.

[@ScrapScience]

Wow! From the title I only assumed that you'd coated the glass in something to protect it, but no, you've improved pretty much everything in the reaction. Incredible! This has got to be one of my favourite projects on youtube.

[@devintran9884]

Just subbed to your channel. looking forward to your content

[@nolansykinsley3734]

God I love you. Actual research and actual science on youtube leading to actual breakthroughs for amateur chemists. Keep up the great work!

[@AppliedScience]

Very nice work!

[@NurdRage]

thanks, and i'm not even done!

[@theodionne9370]

Nice.

[@joshuasamuels4802]

could you use lithium (from batteries) to drive out the water?

[@NurdRage]

Already have, it works, and i'm going to post that in the next lab notes video.

[@joshuasamuels4802]

NurdRage awesome! thanks for the content!

[@CatboyChemicalSociety]

the lithium contamination might be an issue though

[@alexanderfl-ts3171]

What about aluminium?

[@leerman22]

Aluminum needs to be liquid, which needs pretty high temperatures.

[@vivekkumarsingh4226]

NurdRage inspired me to study chemistry. I started doing chemistry experiments at the age of 13, now i'm 20. I have my own small lab and I'm studying chemical engineering.

[@Edik0704]

I could also write this sentence. School chemistry seems boring, but it has a special feeling if you do something on your own

[@Dark0neone]

What did you study? Can you suggest any books or websites?

[@SafetyLucas]

I literally have the exact same story. We should form a society.

[@xenonram]

typical memer School chemistry is only boring if you don't truly like chemistry. If you just like doing experiments/lab work, become a lab assistant, not a chemist. If you "love cars" but only like driving them and not working on them and learning how they work, become a race car driver not a mechanic/tech/automotive engineer. Same thing.

[@6alecapristrudel]

Same here m8. Except I do electrochemistry. How's your math ahahahah I only graduated cause I had to figure out how things work, how to do things on my own and not die by poison, electrocution or fire in the process

[@bigandy1982]

I love following the development of this.

[@Magnetic_Spaceman]

Congratulations on this breakthrough! This video series has been absolutely fascinating. It's been really interesting to watch this process go from idea to refinement and then to see this massive jump in yield and efficiency. Good luck in this final push!

[@lukaswursthorn581]

I think many people posted this before me, but following actual science is infinitely more interesting than watching some random well known reaction. Keep it up!

[@damionb3568]

96% yield and no glassware damage! Well done, congratulations!

[@jaywashington2196]

Nurdrage needs some sort of award for finding this out Good job for finding a solution

[@hoggif]

This has been an extremely interesting series to follow way back (and rewatch again, even if we already know where this will end up).

[@risingwind8943]

This guy is absolutely incredible. And just saying that does not do him justice. The methods used are brilliant in their simplicity and ease. Outstanding.

[@dhawthorne1634]

I know you can't hear it, but I am applauding your breakthrough. Congratulations!

[@Felixkeeg]

Stunning results! Not only did you manage to avoid the destruction of glassware, you also got a fantastic yield. Very nice work.

[@garrettlines6628]

The last one of these you posted, before you start calling them lab notes, was of my favorite style, just like this one.

[@ScatteredParticles]

Great work! Never thought your constrained settings (i.e. outside of a chemical research laboratory environment) would allow this reaction to be optimised this far. Do you think it may be worthy of publication in a chemistry journal? I'm sure you could even use your video footage as a selling point, making for a strong supplemental information section.

[@rogerdotlee]

This is SO cool. I took a rainy afternoon and marathonned this series. Great work, Dr. NBL.

[@StripeyType]

HOLY YIELD PERCENTAGE BATMAN! This is really fantastic work - it's the sort of thing that you'd have been given a spot in the Amateur Scientist column in Scientific American to write this up. I'm so thankful you're sharing your work with the rest of us!

[@OGSumo]

Why is this so interesting? Why am I so invested in this series?

[@SneakyCheese8]

I was a child when I saw your first videos and they really made me want to pursue my own career. Now I just graduated as a chemical engineer and this video is really close to my heart because I enjoy reactor designing, optimising reaction conditions, and reaction kinetics! Thank you for all these videos!

[@twocvbloke]

At least you've sorted out your pain in the glass now... :P

[@Enjoymentboy]

I remain thoroughly impressed with the logic you employ when working through these problems.

[@sevenproxies4255]

Congratulations on this breakthrough! To quote Hannibal from The A-Team: "I love it when a plan comes together!"

[@somerandomguy2205]

I want you to know that I and probably many others really appreciate the work and money you put into this kind of research! We love you!

[@kahlzun]

I can't believe this has a dislike. Who can dislike this quality content?

[@dawsontaylor9161]

NurdRage I love you man. You are incredibly intelligent and have made great strides for the amateur chemist community. I just want to say, thank you for everything you’ve done and everything you will come to do.

[@kevinbyrne4538]

Congratulations, sir. Your success is a lesson in the value of persistence. A former boss of mine once said that if you persist long enough, Nature becomes tired of resisting and finally reveals her secrets. (Of course some ingenuity -- as shown here -- also helps.)

[@drinventions9742]

Someone needs to place a few letters behind your name Sir,, awesome good work,, you display great integrity with this project,, keep the videos coming

[@cutzwithrazzor]

Bravo! It always feels nice to find out what is causing problems with experiments.

[@72polara]

Solving the glassware damage problem and increasing yield, amazing work.

[@KungFuMunkeyz]

This is awesome, the trial and error of your discovery is so entertaining and educational. I hope that someone documents this somewhere

[@L337f33t]

Congratulations! Been watching this for a while and seeing you work through it was almost as fun as watching the experiment!

[@pyromen321]

This has been an incredible series of videos! I never expected you to reach a quantitative yield!

[@Muonium1]

This is an actual scientific discovery that should be published in the literature. I have no idea where you go for something like this...JACS, Tetrahedron, Journal of Chemical Education....no clue, but it belongs somewhere besides youtube.

[@johnathancorgan3994]

Congratulations, persistence pays off. Thanks for all your efforts both in discovering new practical chemistry for the amateur and documenting it in videos.

[@eatcookie8197]

6 months and several erlenmeyer flasks later... Great Job!

[@edwardatnardellaca]

Congratulations! You have accomplished something impressive and have shown that determination and persistence combined with a significant amount of knowledge can accomplish things thought impossible or impractical.

[@JorgeStolfi]

This was a very remarkable discovery, congratulations! Now that water has been identified as a major spoiler of the reaction, as well as necessary for glassware corrosion, maybe the process can be made to work with more common alcohols, like ethanol or isopropanol? I have tried melting NaOH in a stainless steel cup too (my goal was to extract metals from silicates by turning the silica into soluble sodium silicate). I found that, after heating hydrated NaOH (alone) up to about 340C, the solidified "mostly anhydrous" crust will dissolve in a sufficient amount of anhydrous ethanol. Stainless steel mostly resists molten NaOH, but it is superficially attacked. The NaOH becomes orange-brown, apparently from suspended "rust" (iron oxide?). The steel surface becomes covered by a black oxide (?) layer. The NaOH however does not seem to react with either the "rust" or with that layer. It seems that, after the cup's surface has been "primed" this way, more NaOH can be melted in it with little or no "rust" forming. Some papers I have read say that it is very difficult to remove all traces of water from molten NaOH, and even small amounts will noticeably lower the melting point. Thus the melting point of pure NaOH was surprisingly hard to determine. The same papers say that silver is the best container to melt NaOH in. I have seen nickel crucibles on sale that are claimed to resist molten NaOH, KOH, K2O, etc.; but they are a bit expensive. I wonder whether nickel- or silver-plating the inside of a stainless steel cup would also work.

[@olympicfan2]

It´s nice to see you still doing these videos. 10 years after you started, you know how to impress your viewers. Keep it up, and you´ll still remember my channel?

[@GolemDragon]

Fantastic... your persistence paid off dramatically.... amazing work....

[@misium]

Wow, i love the observing the progress of development.

[@mystermisterairy6257]

You rule Dr. Li! I love watching and learning from your videos. Keep on keeping on 👍👍🏼👍🏽👍🏾👍🏿

[@mdwdirect]

I love watching your videos. I hope to see you publishing again.

[@AcoAegis]

I think it's really cool that the 10-20 dollars that I've donated have, in some way, helped develop something like this. I feel like I've contributed to something historically significant - if you haven't, consider donating to this channel.

[@hikingpete]

Congratulations! It's been awesome following you on this journey.

[@willynebula6193]

Congratulations nerdrage all that hard work payed off

[@Morbacounet]

Give this man the Nobel prize !

[@10bee]

How about physical/chemical drying of the NaOH prior to reaction? Heating at 10mbar vacuum at 100degC over P2O5 for a few hours? This combination is a super efficient drying aid.

[@PepekBezlepek]

you are forever a legend because of this.

[@-Kerstin]

Great success. I look forward the the complete how to video. Please use very clean / brand new flasks in the final video so it's easier to see that the reaction isn't doing any damage.

[@MadMorgie6318]

Awesome work, dude! Super proud of you for working this out.

[@Metalhammer1993]

Dang you not only saved your glassware but also blew the yield through the roof. Great work Nurd! Could lithium destroy water? You can easily get it from batteries

[@androidtechgeek]

Metalhammer1993 Yes, lithium, like all alkali metals, reacts with water. The only problem is that you'd need to recover the produced lithium hydroxide. The advantage of using sodium is that it can simply be recycled in the reaction.

[@Metalhammer1993]

Haloid Kusnetsov i know lithium reacts with water, but i also know it's less reactive than sodium or any other alkali metal. Meaning it might be too slow. The lithium hydroxide however is the least problem. It will just stay with the magnesium alkoxide in the slack. Unless and that would rule it out as a drying agent, the lithium hydroxide can perform the same reaction regenerating the lithium which might form an alloy with the sodium.(im quite sure it won't but i can't guarantee it.) But if lithium works it is easily available and doesn't need to be made beforehand looping around the having to have sodium in the first place problem

[@androidtechgeek]

Metalhammer1993 It still reacts fairly quickly. It just doesn't ignite as easily.

[@alexleyendaa909]

Chemist here, yeah, actually, that should work, it's a great idea and so easy. Lithium does react with water almost as fast as sodium (a small piece in water is destroyed in like no more than 30 seconds)

[@-yeme-]

batteries arent a great source of lithium. afaik lithium primary cells (NOT the common Li-ion rechargeables that power phones etc) are the only type to contain metallic lithium and they only contain a small amount per cell. youd need a lot of cells to scrape together, say, 10g of Li.

[@Grak70]

Have been following you for a while now and this is just science at its best. Well done! I'm going to try to replicate your findings very soon.

[@erikisberg3886]

Really great research! Useful lab knowledge for other reactions as well. Thanks. It seems often that keeping thing scrupulously dry improve results a lot. When doing new reactions it may be the worth the extra to avoid complications, and then later see if it was necessary or not. Perhaps it is beneficial to use a sodium press to make sodium wire for the initial drying step as is usually done when Na drying various solvents. It is possible to dry NaOH and get rid of carbonate by dissolving about 200g/L in dry MeOH. Filter of carbonates, add molecular sieves 3a and filter, vacuum dry under heat to get dry pure NaOH back from alcoholate. One of these methods is described in the excellent book "purification of laboratory chemicals".

[@Kotih]

a serious congrats on this breakthough cant wait for the main video

[@joho0]

This is why we watch. Top notch!!!

[@pkalpha3]

Really useful stuff! Thanks! Now I don't need to waste money on the glassware since as you said the glassware is more expensive that the chemicals. Keep me updated with your solutions!

[@Revlemmon]

Congratulations on the discovery!!!

[@talkingdot]

this has been a fun journey I am glad you have worked out the kinks in this stuff it has been fascinating

[@RealHogweed]

You are nothing short than brilliant

[@Unidroids]

Well done :) 96% yield, really impressive!

[@datdereh2367]

greatest chemist on youtube

[@magnusee]

Use heated sand around your glass

[@nolansykinsley3734]

I was going to suggest a sand bath, but from the results in the video it seems that he just doesn't need it. The reaction was nearly quantitative and I doubt a sand bath would help any at the lower temperatures he now uses.

[@leerman22]

The hotplate can run at a slightly higher temperature without damaging anything and might run the reaction faster.

[@krabkit]

gratz, you did not sound as excited about this as you shoudl have been. great research

[@sega9763]

Wow very nice work mate, really helpful to all amateur chemists out there !

[@bradayers1563]

I'm going to do my Mchem with mathematics in September because of your work so Id just like to say thank you

[@GadgetSteelmare]

So I'm no chemistry buff, and my knowledge of the subject is spotty at best, but I still enjoy watching your videos, even though a lot of the chemical names and other things go right over my head. I'm more mechanically-oriented, but I'm slowly learning things I never thought I'd have an interest in. It's fun seeing you make breakthroughs like this! And watching your whole process of making pyrimethamine was pretty cool too, since you purposely took the hardest route you could. I wish I could help contribute in some way, but I don't have either the knowledge or the money to do so, sadly. Though if I see something I have any knowledge about that you need help or suggestions with, I'll absolutely chime in!

[@rouvenr1414]

Thank you for sharing your discoveries with us ❤️ Great work!

[@jakx2ob]

I'm not a chemist but this seems like a really elegant solution.

[@LuisBorja1981]

Excellent follow-up, it reminds us Chemistry is about patience and careful hardwordk

[@user21XXL]

you could try to set up a soxhlet extraction with A3 in the soxhlet and NaOH in a flask below. Eters or toluene can carry some water from NaOH to A3 sieves

[@SafetyLucas]

But then the NaOH being dried may react with the flask. Perhaps it would work if the positions of the NaOH and the sieves were reversed and the condenser was covered to protect it from atmospheric humidity.

[@erwinrommel9509]

Dean stark trap would be better than soxhlet

[@Remowylliams]

Loving all the science in this. Bravo!

[@CKOD]

Great work! I was expecting something like something that would preferentially react before the glass, or something like fluorinating the glass beforehand to give it a SiF surface. Not 'just' removing water from the reaction. Could an oil bath, even just a few mm in the bottom of a beaker that you can put your flask in help even it out and spread hot-spots to reduce the chance even further? Maybe even a small pile of fine sand that you push the beaker down on till the layer is thin?

[@Angel_the_Bunny]

Great job! I am super impressed with your progress and contributions to (amateur) chemistry!

[@asdsasadas2311]

Dean starks can be used to dry solids. Dry the NaOH in a DS with benzene or toluene.

[@Rich_ard]

I was just about to ask if we were going to get a single how to video and then like you knew you'd be asked a thousand times you answered the question before I could ask it.

[@BloodHound0827]

This is absolutely amazing. Awesome to see advancements like this!

[@faaf42]

Amazing find! Thanks for this NurdRage. Waiting eagerly for the "cleaned up" how-to video.

[@robbystokoe5161]

You deserve a medal

[@jasonenns5076]

Nerd rage you did it you have a doctorate and it did you good.

[@ThePharphis]

Damn, that's amazing! Smart approach and fantastic results. Must feel great

[@FullModernAlchemist]

Fantastic stuff man. Great job. I agree it’s still kind of circular but if we can figure that but out we will all be with more sodium than we know what to do with.

[@jt16omes]

this is great, as soon as I have access to a lab I will definetly try this

[@Calluth]

Maybe use an oil/sandbath to get the flask up to temperature without the hotspots?

[@OneOfDisease]

Perhaps you could drive the water out like at 2:31 in an aluminium dish or something with a stir rod plus an oil or other liquid covering… maybe with continued stiring when the mix cools it wouldn't be a solid mass?

[@miloserus]

Aluminium and sodium hydroxide do not go well together. Then you’ll need to find a way to find a way to separate the sodium from the sodium aluminate.

[@Squish120]

Awesome work, that could almost be of commercial interest. The magnesium sodium aggregrate maybe useful as a drying agent, might even try that myself!

[@GertrudeFilthbasket]

an incredible opus. great job

[@codycall6513]

BOOM! Well done. Way to stick with it.

[@veloxsouth]

Congratulations on the breakthrough

[@calyodelphi124]

WHOO!! This is excellent news! :D Definitely keep up with the good work!

[@kmarasin]

Brilliant. Richard Feynman would be proud.

[@jbeckley6849]

An elegant solution.

[@Edik0704]

congratulations from germany :)

[@whatevernamegoeshere3644]

Absolutely beautiful.

[@maxdarkdog5051]

You could put sand on the hot plate to avoid hot spots and improve contact surface with the flask

[@ContentCalvin]

Thanks for all your hard work!

[@Pariatical]

What about sand or oil heating to remove the contact with heatplate? perhaps even heating solves some problems?