Promethean Matches - The Ancestor to Modern Matches

[@NurdRage]

Merry Christmas, and have a happy new year. May we one day have peace on earth. See you all next year, in a couple of weeks.

[@nikhill5340]

May we one day have peace on earth indeed, a noble wish my good sir!

[@petevenuti7355]

Right back at ya!

[@pattheplanter]

Two days of peace on Earth would be nice, if somewhat ambitious.

[@kemster9495]

Sodium chlorite be made from sodium chlorate electroreduction with zinc

[@sjcwoor]

I guess you could also put two capsules in there. One with unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine and the other with dinitrogen tetroxide.

[@cybercat1531]

I volunteer at a local Museum and we would occasionally find these among donated collections or sets of old household items that got donated. People usually didn't know what they were and kept them lying around in a drawer of arts and crafts or christmas decorations. A few went off spontaneously from thermal expansion and cracking of the glass ampule over time too. Always made for a fun surprise :D

[@NurdRage]

ah cool! Do you have pictures? There are so few good pictures of them on the internet.

[@garbleduser]

Please post pictures if you have them!

[@beskamir5977]

That sounds incredibly dangerous. I'm surprised I've never heard of such a match before when it's clearly something that the general population should probably be aware exists in the event that their ancestors left some for them.

[@______IV]

@@beskamir5977: There’s all kinds of dangerous leftovers from previous generations. Scores of people have had the misfortune of discovering various toxic elements and chemicals from sources such as old chemistry sets designed for kids, household chemicals under sinks and in storage sheds, and chunks of poisonous elements like arsenic and thallium kept in periodic table collections. As a rule of thumb, if you inherit something and don’t know what it is (especially if it contains liquid or powdered substances), dispose of it at a recycling center that handles questionable items.

[@FutureAIDev2015]

The sound they make when they ignite is really satisfying, it's like a solid rocket igniter.

[@eduardopupucon]

the combustible they use is literally one of the first solid fuel recipes look up "sugar rockets"

[@Thing.Appreciator]

So thats what these are! I remember reading a book a long time ago and they were mentioning something called "Lucifer matches" that involved breaking glass, and I've always wondered what those were and if it was something the author made up or not. Cool, thanks Mr Nurd!

[@NurdRage]

i'm not a historian, but i think the author might be confabulating later friction matches with promethean matches. Right after the promethean matches came to prominence, lucifer matches took over and didn't have acid in them, instead being lit with friction. Since they overlapped in years maybe the author confabulated the two.

[@Thing.Appreciator]

@@NurdRage Oh okay, that's interesting. Thanks for the clarification! I wish I remember what book it was, I'm thinking it might have had a Victorian setting.

[@dananorth895]

Just for clarification as I'm sure you know. In latin Luciferrous means light-giving.

[@YunxiaoChu]

@@NurdRagelol

[@firstmkb]

I don’t think I’ve ever felt such a visceral reaction to a KZbin video as when your first one ignited with such “enthusiasm!” For anyone else, cotton t-shirts do not count as protection against acid, but they do detect it well when washed later.

[@icebluscorpion]

Glycerine and sodium permanganate would do the trick as well and would be safer to use. Also drenching the paper straws with wax would be better as well to have a decent burn time like a match

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

Glycerine and permanganate would be a LOT hotter too.

[@vandorb12]

Paper straws are already wax coated (at least the higher quality ones), but not to the extent that they would provide a better burn time. Double dip away!

[@garycard1456]

The potassium salt of permanganate is most readily obtainable and would do the job perfectly. No need to use sodium permanganate.

[@SafetyLucas]

@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 I would still want to use the chlorate based composition if the match was being used to light a cigarette though. Not that cigarettes are healthy anyway, but the manganese biproducts could make them even more carcinogenic.

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

@@SafetyLucas I don’t think I’d want to use any formulation like this to light a cigarette, I’d probably set my beard on fire, lol.

[@larrybud]

Whoah whoah whoah, you had me at "fire" And Finally, a good use for paper straws!

[@Enjoymentboy]

This is awesome!!!! I KNEW I had seen these things somewhere a very long time ago but whenever i mentioned then people either said there was no way or just looked at me like i was crazy. I had no idea what they were called so no way to search for them. Thank you for putting this to rest for me. 😊😊😊

[@petevenuti7355]

Finally something paper straws might be useful for!

[@dougaltolan3017]

Are you kidding?? You can make mobiles, and Christmas trees, and Google "paper straw cathedral" too... Ahh, you said "useful"......

[@pattheplanter]

Charles Darwin describing the voyage of the Beagle, 1839: "I carried with me some promethean matches, which I ignited by biting." Occupational safety was different then.

[@NurdRage]

Fitting the first Darwin Award nominee would be the man himself.

[@pattheplanter]

@@NurdRage Except he survived over 40 years after. I am reminded of the obituary of Humphry Davy which remarked that he reached the surprising age of 50, considering his habit of breathing all the new gases he synthesised. The first he tried was nitrous oxide, all the others must have been somewhat disappointing by comparison.

[@NurdRage]

I know nominee is technically not the right word. But I was trying to convey that he was not a darwin award winner since he didn't die.

[@larrybud]

It would be ironic if he had won the "Darwin Award"...

[@pattheplanter]

@@NurdRage Ah, I see. Darwin Award reject? Nature would have loved to have selected him but missed out for some reason.

[@homeopathicfossil-fuels4789]

This is actually quite cool however hazardous it is, I wonder if they were ever used to ignite rocket artillery, like as a tail on the fuse or something. Thanks for still being you and still uploading here after all these years, you taught me a bunch about how to avoid dying.

[@9daywonda]

One of the best vids you have done showing ordinary everyday chem. - GREAT TO SEE YOU BACK.

[@KnightsWithoutATable]

Alchemical matches from D&D should work like these, including the failures and the skill, risk, and/or tools needed for use.

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

Sugar and chlorate in the right proportion tends to detonate as you found out. Glad it was very localized and didn’t propagate through the rest of the mixture. Glycerine/permanganate or glycerine/calcium hypochlorite would also work.

[@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648]

These old matches were noisy (what with breaking glass and violently flaring chemical mixtures), and the newer kind that replaced them were sometimes known as silent matches. Gilbert and Sullivan wrote about the newer matches in the number "With Cat-Like Tread" in the operetta "The Pirates of Penzance." They were the appropriate thing to quietly light the candle inside the "dark lantern" (which had a shutter to let out light only at the proper time). The number itself was a roaring ironic farce, with the pirates on stage making as much noise as possible in spite of singing about stealth in their new pursuit of "burglaree." Anyhow, this is something about historical context. People preferred a tamer flame once it became possible. Perhaps NurdRage could trace the further development of the match. I believe there were several steps in that development, including those for safety sake (red phosphorus instead of white, and strike-on-box). The first striking matches, using white phosphorus, were hazardous to the employees who produced them, and the reticence to move to the safer but costlier red phosphorus and then phosphorus sesquisulphide (?) was a result of cold business practices.

[@ska042]

White phosphorous matches sound kind of terrifying.

[@weef2188]

​@@ska042 thats what those strike everywhere matches were which is why you dont really see them being sold anymore but yeah totally safe so long as you dont disturb the small amount of white phosphorus at the end

[@garbleduser]

I'm so glad you liked my suggestion for the video! Thank you so very much! I wish a Merry Christmas to you and all of your loved ones :-)

[@aga5897]

Brilliant topic ! Nurdy is Back and in Full Effect !

[@robertsmith4681]

I did not realize that those were known that far back, I'm only familiar with various flavors of ww2 "time pencils" and similar ignition devices

[@ke9tv]

Cool video! I didn't know what chemistry was involved in Promethean matches; I would have guessed permanganate and something organic. Sulphur matches were extremely common in the 19th century. They didn't strike - they caught the spark from the flint. On the trail, I still light fires with flint and steel (or rather, ferrocerium). Unlike a match or lighter, they work even when wet, and I can strike a spark even when shivering uncontrollably. My tinder - dryer lint or cotton balls and petroleum jelly - also works when wet - or rather, doesn't get wet because water won't wet it. I have fallen in a river in near-freezing temperatures at least once, so the performance of this system has been confirmed experimentally. In other words, I'm still here to post this.

[@aga5897]

Hi. Security Team Leader here. We're debating if a guy who falls into freezing water more than once should be allowed the ability to make Fire ;)

[@ke9tv]

@@aga5897 🤣 It probably wouldn't help if I told you that I was on a 220-km solo hike through the Adirondacks, and when it happened I was almost 20 km from the nearest highway. Yeah, I'm slightly nuts. 🤪 I was as careful as I could be under the circumstances. I could see that the ford was sketchy. I laid in a small amount of firewood on the near bank so as to have somewhere to retreat to, made sure that my tinderbox and my locator beacon were on my person and not in my pack, had prepared the pack with both a waterproof liner and a waterproof cover, slung the pack over one shoulder so as to be able to get out of it fast if I wound up swimming, and so on. In the actual incident I fetched up on a rock within seconds, saw that someone else going the other way had had the same idea and laid in wood on the far bank, and completed the crossing. I got a fire going, got into dry gear, and was fine.

[@aga5897]

@@ke9tv Glad you made it ! OK, i'll argue to let you keep the magic :-)

[@Qyonek]

Thnx!

[@NurdRage]

oh thank you!

[@SedriqMiers]

i have a new found respect for modern day matches now.

[@cputecch]

holy crap i haven’t seen a nerd rage show in a long time. i still use you process to D-ionize my filter. keep it up miss your content i watch cody’s lab to pass the time

[@tehlaser]

0:25 Huh. I’ve never thought of it before, but now I’m curious how modern “strike anywhere” matches work without the red phosphorous striking strip.

[@Rhiawhyn]

Layered tips with a grit compound in them so that any mildly abrasive surface forces a mixing of the chemicals and you get fire.

[@stamasd8500]

The history of firemaking techniques and devices is fascinating.

[@Frank-bc8gg]

finally a good use of paper straws

[@Xeemix]

I feel like its been forever since I've seen one of your videos, good to see you again!

[@justanotherfreakinchannel9069]

So, not sure if anyone else has pointed this out, but I'm pretty sure dipping the end in wax wouldn't help with ignition at all, but it would absolutely make them waterproof. Additionally, it would provide fuel and make the flame burn longer. Moreover, you could fill the long unused portion of the paper straw with wax, and have what would amount to a self igniting candle.

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

That was fun to watch - well, chemistry has always been very entertaining when demonstrated rather than taught only as theory.

[@andyd8370]

@4:10 Craft the tube after you make the acid capsule so you can gauge its size.

[@citizen77750]

Im gonna light my cigar boom no more cigar. Best channel on youtube, you really learn chemistry. Not that I will repeat what he is doing, but i love the actions and reactions problems and solutions.

[@HeffeJeffe78]

4:51 I *think* it's lit now

[@4ms301]

Thank you for the history lesson. Really neat demonstration. 👍

[@r1w3d]

Damn, with needle sized vents and controlled grain size you could probably mitigate any popping. I think I'm going to play around with this because I have all kinds of glass to use and sulfuric acid is always on hand being the most useful to me. This video was awesome and not only did we get chemistry but an interesting reproduction.

[@boelwerkr]

I would say that these matches where primarily for military use. They provide intense flame so they will even work in a wet environment. They could be stored for a long time with a wax or lacquer coating. Cost is not an issue. The danger of use more but the benefits outweigh the risk.

[@FlatEnough]

You should do an online meetup with Peter & Pete channel, you and them are very good at chemistry so there will be a lot of value there.

[@Microwavingmetal]

I love the practical chemistry you do keep it up.

[@jtcustomknives]

I can see some other uses for this besides matches. Been working on a smoke screen device with a faster ignition than from a standard fused igniter.

[@THYZOID]

Such an interesting project! Ancient chemistry is always great

[@twocvbloke]

How would this setup fare if it used the classic flamey staple of potassium permanganate & glycerine? Would the reaction be enough to burn through the straws, or just smoulder & fail?

[@NurdRage]

not sure, the amount in a straw might not get hot enough to ignite, but definitely something to try in the future!

[@boiwithskillz]

It’d work, but would take like ~30 seconds to light after breaking. Be sure to throw in some thermite mix or chlorate/sugar for good measure😁

[@kaboom4679]

Back in the day ( when dinosaurs roamed ) , a common prank was a 35 mm film canister with some glycerine in the bottom . A small piece of tissue containing Potassium Permanganate was stiffed in the very top but not contacting the glycerine . When tipped over or up ended they would mix and ignite . Those film cannisters were very versatile . I have even heard of people storing film in them ...

[@theboots39]

These look super dangerous! Really cool, though!

[@marcoconuts]

Man I rarely hit the notification bell but yours is the only one I really use I love watching your videos

[@jimkimbrell4878]

Always the best tutorial experiments

[@chrisellingson123]

Try wrapping the glass vials in paper; this may help with explosions. Also the sealed paper tube acts as a pressure vessel so a few pinholes may help too.

[@snozzmcberry2366]

Those are absolutely horrifying. I'd be in a state of constant near-panic carrying them around. Fantastic video and thank you very much for sharing, but thank goodness for modern matches and lighters.

[@edwardscott3262]

They made weapons that used similar tech. WW1 era British naval mines used it. They had a bad habit of blowing up the ship carrying and laying them. Also a bad habit of not blowing up when hit by enemy ships. There were also chemically initiated landmines used in WW2. Chemically initiated explosives were really commonly used in clandestine weapons. There they suffered from the same problems. One of the assassination attempts Hitler survived was because the chemically initiated bomb didn't go off at the right time. The one where he was viewing German weapons not the one they made a movie about.

[@GMCLabs]

Cool man! Only thing I would try different would be using a heat sealer tonseal the straw, or even just heat up your hemostat and pinch the straw to seal. Just don't light your cigarette with these! Cigs may cause cancer, but inhaling H2SO4 would be a bit more of an immediate death.

[@GMCLabs]

I wonder how well using glycerine and potassium permanganate would work. You could probably light a cig off that without inhaling anything too toxic, well other than the cig smoke. Probably better than inhaling acid fumes though!

[@pattheplanter]

Manganism, the toxicity of manganese compounds, was first described in 1837.

[@turgityfarms3752]

"Acid based" is one of those things that makes me wince and laugh. Like "boiling a roast" 😆

[@giuliorossi4418]

That little jumpscared jiggle- dude's adorable

[@64Pete]

Comment for the almighty algorithm, happy new year brother!

[@Craefter]

That was pretty cool. Those matches have a bit of a steampunk vibe.

[@JamesJohnson-kw9gh]

😂 it's good to see your putting out quality videos again.

[@lamarw7757]

It's sad to see people still misspelling the word * you're.

[@DanielFCutter]

Love this “dangerous history” our ancestors lived with. But way better than rubbing sticks! I always bring the chlorate mixture and a vial of h2so4 camping to impress the kids, other campers, and myself. There is a government booklet on making destructive devices if you are ever caught behind enemy lines called “booby traps”-for like $2. Why? i have no idea-the books are filled with very dangerous ideas. I look at them as educational experiments. This Prometheus mix factors into many of the “projects” in these books. Like using an old fashion alarm clock to reel in a string when the alarm goes off. The string tips over a vial of acid into a pile of chlorate/sugar at whatever time you set the clock to go off. Yes--you can buy this educational book from your federal government. Go figure. And be nice to each other.

[@UnitSe7en]

The little popper one was a fun surprise.

[@AJ-qv9yo]

Nice history lesson. I'd wished to learn for more about 'match' inventions.

[@MadMorgie6318]

Fascinating as always; thanks!

[@KubotaManDan]

🎄 Merry Christmas and Happy New Year ❄

[@shawnrinkel8377]

Love your channel mr.rage. Have a merry new year and a happy holiday/s

[@olafgusten2671]

thx for your video love your content have a Merry Christmas. looking forward for the next video.

[@MattBaker1965]

Great work man

[@ZoonCrypticon]

An absolutely fantastic compilation ! Could you think about making more historic chemical experiments for your future videos ?

[@TheMono25]

Commercially made now would be amazing That's awesome

[@hanelyp1]

Shipping the assembled matches would be jnteresting with modern regulations.

[@BlackSoap361]

Need to do a series, on the evolution of matches.

[@jacobwrona]

I'm glad you found a use for those paper straws since they serve no purpose with beverages. Lol

[@SilntObsvr]

Have you tried making Lucifer style friction matches? These were phosphorus free from the 1830s on, (though they weren't as popular as the ones with white phosphorus; they were less reliable and much noisier), using potassium chlorate and antimony sulfide in equal parts plus binders and a little iron oxide (catalyst or coloring agent, I'm not sure). Dipping in molten sulfur made them slightly safer and more reliable, and early safety matches were essentially the same with the sulfur incorporated in the heading mix instead of coated on (ostensibly to cover the stench of the burning hide glue binder).

[@kevinlatulippe6944]

Always cool stuff on your channel Merry Christmas and play safe 😊

[@JohnVance]

Never heard of this before!

[@michaeldomansky8497]

Feliz Navidad!

[@dukikuki2549]

Merry Christmas 🎄

[@Pygar2]

I read watchmen in gunpowder factories used to carry a glass tube full of some oil (olive?) and a lump of some material, that emitted a soft light. Supposed to last for days.

[@andrewtinker7537]

A lump of white phosphorus in oil in a glass vial will give a soft light when the vial is shaken. Some of the phosphorus dissolves in the oil, and the thin layer of oil on the inner surface of the vial allows it to oxidize and glow. The remainder of the phosphorus lump is safely under the oil where it is protected from air, and as long as you let fresh air into the vial now and then you can use it for a long time. Some early books on chemistry tricks claimed that this oil was also safe to spread on face, hands, or hair to give a glowing or burning appearance, but I'm reminded of Hennig Brand, who initially discovered it, and among his other experiments, rubbed a solution of phosphorus and oil onto his 'privy member' and found it to chafe and burn him in his tender places quite mightily.

[@Pygar2]

@@andrewtinker7537 Thanks so much! I won't be trying *that* experiment!

[@schautamatic]

Have a secondary compartment with an ampoule of water and packed with calcium carbide for starting fires on damp wood, now. 😄😄🔥🔥🔥

[@kaboom4679]

I have used a small pike of carbide and the pouring rain slot start camp fires many times , when simply using a carbide lamp flame wouldn't quite cut it . I still have several gallons of carbide on hand , for my lamps and " other uses " .

[@DonnyHooterHoot]

Nurds unite! Great video!

[@tahallium]

Yay merry Christmas!

[@DaimyoD0]

Could we do something like this with potassium permanganate and glycerin to remove the danger of sulfuric acid?

[@charlescoffey9523]

Very interesting, thank you

[@pedroclaro7822]

Hey nurd! I am a bit of a pyromaniac, but would love other firestarting chemical reactions. Merry Christmas

[@JinKee]

4:33 Charles Darwin trying to earn a Darwin Award using his teeth to bite the sulphuric acid capsule in this promethian match

[@helmutzollner5496]

Interesting. Had never heard about promethian matches.

[@helojoe92]

this would be a perfect prop for any kind of deranged inventor type LARP character, maybe in a steampunk or assassins guild setting or something similar!

[@Thermalspecialist]

Cool video! Makes modern matches seem boring.

[@kevinhumphrey4072]

Is this how impact fuses are made? or do they normally use percussion caps.

[@austin503]

Finally, a use for paper straws

[@garycard1456]

An idea for Nurdrage: Extra-loud homemade Christmascrackers! Complete with a little toy inside. Christmascrackers are very popular at Christmas time in the UK; are they popular in the US and Canada? They are based on silver fulminate. I get the impression that they are not as loud as they used to be when I was a little kids in the 1980s; that's because the 'Elf and Safety' killjoys requested that less fulminate be used .

[@jrnazon9998]

There some kind of irony Darwin of all people bragging about using his teeth with this.

[@shannonnewman3091]

Cool, That is Cool !

[@mohsinali660]

Very nice 👍

[@CsendesMark]

Very cool!

[@alch3myau]

We've seen the orig, now lets see yours!

[@jasonsong86]

Can you reduce the concentration of the acid to slow down the reaction?

[@SJ-co6nk]

Found the only person on earth who has a reason to like paper straws

[@samdiveley8816]

Does anyone know if potassium perchlorate will work for this?

[@SianaGearz]

Wow flint&steel for sure seems much more polite.

[@sjcwoor]

I guess you could also put two capsules in there. One with unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine and the other with dinitrogen tetroxide.

[@terawattyear]

Good historical representation. Lots of fun to watch too! Merry Christmas! 🎄

[@OkieDokieSmokie]

I used a paper straw at Subway yesterday. It had a terrible mouthfeel and melted before I finished my medium. They need to make stiffer cups that can be drank from with no lid if they want to pass off such terrible straws. Heck, don’t offer straws at all and suggest I buy my own reusable steel straw.

[@snigwithasword1284]

Wax is certainly an overpowered fire starter, hard to imagine it wouldnt flake off after applying your pliers tho, unless you're already somewhere quite warm.

[@vx-iidu]

just use softer wax. or vaseline. would do the trick

[@JDLupus]

I absolutely adore the irony in how biting a Promeathean match to ignite it would be considered Darwin Award-worthy these days.

[@francescoquadrio5824]

Ah yes, forbidden glowstick

[@miraclo3]

awesome!

[@pixill4ted593]

Very cool

[@HYMN_SCIENCE]

Sir can you make a video making magnesium from magnesium chloride🙂