Lackawanna Cut Off - Part 15: Saving the Cut-Off (1985-2001)

In our last episode, it looked like things couldn't get worse for the New Jersey Cut-Off after the tracks had been removed. Well, things will get worse...and that's what this episode is about...Saving the Cut-Off. Also included in this episode is part 2 of our interview with the president of the Pennsylvania Northeast Railroad Authority, Larry Malski, who will talk about this period of time from a Pennsylvania perspective. Finally, Chuck will talk about the people he would place in a "Hall of Fame" for having helped save the Cut-Off.

[@barrister2u]

Terrific series. Informed, historical and accurate. Now. let's get the cut-off operational.

[@tjdean1]

Chuck, I've watched all your videos on the cut off. Thanks for your effort in explaining its importance. I now have a better understanding why it needs to be re-activated. I grew up on the west end of the Lackawanna & the Erie's Rochester Division so naturally they are my 2 favorite railroads. Having grown up several hundred miles from the cut-off it was not prominent in our thinking of its importance to the Lackawanna. This super railroad should have never been allowed to devolve to its present day state. I guess we can thank Conrail for that.

[@jaylipper1375]

Chuck- Thank you for this outstanding historical documentary. You have provided us with a historical lesson that I cherish. I look forward to one day take the train from Landing to Scranton for the day.

[@jamesmark782]

I binge-watched the entire series this weekend. I remember riding with people on LV 353 who wanted to see this line preserved and reactivated. Glad things seem to be coming together and hope it will be a harbinger of other rail projects in the state.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

It all comes down to money.

[@yardmstr]

I really appreciate your work, and I especially enjoy your videos. I’m surprised no one has mentioned the two deer at 54:13? Pretty amazing phenomenon. Mother Nature putting her stamp of approval on the restoration of the cutoff perhaps? At any rate, also exciting to know there will be more from Attorney Malski. Thanks again sir! Looking forward to your continued work on KZbin and on the ground, so to speak.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

My daughter mentioned the deer to me after I finished that segment. I was surprised; I didn't hear them behind me. They clearly seem to veer away once they saw us there. Add the deer to the interruptions we've had in different segments...the bicyclist in Rails Under and Over the Cut-Off; the people walking in front of us in Hoboken in Passenger Trains Over the Cut-Off; and who could forget the man with the beach chair that walked in front of us on Port Morris Wye during the taping of Freight Trains Over the Cut-Off.

[@PeterT1981]

Thank you Chuck! Another great episode! Very informative.

[@1940limited]

Thanks for the list of people who contributed to saving the cut-off. There were several names I recognized. I wondered if John Willever was still around. I saw John on the 765 excursions out of Steamtown two summers ago. I spoke to him many times over the years about the Lackawanna Railroad both in person at various rail events and over the phone a few times. He had a large collection of glass plate negatives of the railroad from the company photographer. I also knew Nancy Shukaitis and spoke to her about the cut-off back in the early 80s. At that time the Monroe County Commissioners were seriously thinking about acquiring the property, with rails intact, for $7 million. They had the cash but the deal fell through when the funds were allocated instead for the prison in Snydersville. That may have been as close as anyone came to saving the entire line from Slateford Jct. to Port Morris. It was a big disappointment when the deal fell through. I road the Lackawanna and the EL between Morristown, NJ, and Cresco, PA, extensively for many years as a kid, including every weekend in the summer of 1966. My father and grandfather rode it before me. Our family has a lot of history with the DL&W. I've lived a stone's throw from the tracks all my life and always kept an eye on the railroad. I'm glad it came back in PA even if only as a regional carrier. I expected to lose that, too. Thanks for all these informative videos and all the interest they've generated. When the line is completed to Andover, I'll be sure to take a ride on it!

[@LackawannaCutOff]

Interesting, never heard that the Cut-Off lost out to a prison!

[@1940limited]

The Pocono Record covered it if I recall correctly. It was a long time ago. As stated above, it was a big disappointment. If you are able to get in touch with Nancy Schukaitis, I'm sure she could give you more details. She hi-railed over the cut-off with some Conrail officials while negotiations were ongoing. Maybe that was next to the last "train" over the cut-off before the rails were lifted? It would be nice to get some information from her while she's still around.

[@matej_n8392]

Hi Chuck. I would like to thank for your thorough work after fourteen parts about Cut Off. It was plesantly spent time for me. I'm just about to watch the next (and the last?) episode. I'm not local, but it is very interesting story for me too. I hope that passenger train traffic will be rise again not only on this piece of track. Greetings to NJ from your fan from Czech Republic. And now sit down please, watch and enjoy... Great work!

[@LackawannaCutOff]

Greetings back to you as well. No, hardly the last video.

[@aekurier3442]

Hello Chuck. Thank you for all your hard work in producing the series of videos about the loss and the struggle to save the line: All 15 videos have been watched with great interest; I have gained knowledge about other aspects of railway operations, law and legislation, too, with these videos especially the meeting with Lawrence Malski with his explanation of the hurdles encountered, how they were solved and hopefuffy will be solved.. The comment by Lawrence Malski - not exactly word for word here - about airports, freeways/roads and railways are the lifeblood of the economy, the arteries and veins of the economy; all passenger transportation systems, including the railways need to be fairly funded with government support, whether on a national or local level, in favour of a greater persentage than the funding for freeways. These videos should be offered to UK government and local councils/administrations as a learning and trailing advice tool, especially important for the United Kingdom ( My location)! - This is a small group of 3 countries, where the London government does not invest nearly enough in the railways; so many lines had been closed thoughout history. I believe that it is a start of a new and up and coming renaisance in passenger rail travel, including tram systems for the UK in favour of the automobile; too many private autos on roads with just one person inside vehicle; that is the UK - A small island of automobile conjestion; a little exaggerated, I know, but it is getting worse, not better. Wishing you all the success with your project. Andy v. B.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

Thanks, Andy. I'm glad to hear from you from across the "pond". While I haven't followed the developments in the UK closely, I was there in 2010 and was favorably impressed by what I saw. However, I know that there was an effort going back a bit to close "unprofitable" lines somewhat similar to what was done in the US. To your point, we in the US have much more land mass to play with, and longer distances between major cities (favoring airlines and even trucks), but I could never quite understand the rationale in England and Wales--I didn't get into Scotland, unfortunately--where one would think that rail would have a tremendous advantage. In the US, as I'm sure you're aware, passenger rail (Amtrak) is on its own and is way underfunded. Freight railroads want nothing to do with passenger / commuter service, and politically the two do little to help each other. And then there's the competition from trucks and airlines, which "hog" the public funding. I'm wondering if the UK is grappling with the same issue? It sounds like it might be.

[@4windowcoupe]

Hi! I've been watching the series and enjoying them immensely. There are three things that I feel haven't been mentioned. (Perhaps I missed seeing them.) First, several years ago I took a road trip following the cutoff and I feel that except for the the four (one to come) station locations, the cutoff is either on top of a high fill or deep in a cut. "Public" access is extremely limited due to this. Secondly, I feel that mention should be made of the concrete underpasses that were constructed before the fills began. Third, I feel that the need for additional fill for the Pequest Fill from borrow pits was most likely caused by the substitution of a tunnel for the Roseville Cut. Way less material than was anticipated came out of the cut once they stopped work on the cut and began boring the tunnel. Anyway, I look forward to further "chapters."

[@1971xyzabc]

the improved sound with the wireless mic is great - i really hope you didnt get a cold standing 1 hour+ in the snow! i really like the rich details on the cutoff - more to come in part 16!

[@LackawannaCutOff]

Frank, this episode was tougher on my videographer (my daughter) than me. She has to keep her fingers on the camera. The worst episode for us by far was the Blairstown episode we did about a year ago. By the time we did our “archeological expedition”, the three of us-a friend had joined us with his drone, but it was too windy to fly it-we were all frozen to the bone. I was having trouble talking, and it’s noticeable on the video, at least to me it is. Much more fun to do these in the summer.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

Thank you. I’ve kicked around the possibility of doing a segment on the bridges and underpasses, although several of each have been mentioned or shown over time in the videos. Yes, I will do a segment on Greendell and Andover. Regarding the Pequest Fill, while the completion of a cut would have added a lot of fill, my unofficial estimate left Section 3 (Flickwir & Bush) quite a bit short and extra borrow pits would still have been needed anyway. Regarding constant cuts and fills on the Cut-Off I thought I brought that up, or maybe Larry Malski brought that up in his interview. Working on the next segment...weather has caused delays, however.

[@Ken_in_Wisconsin]

Great music! My viewing is set for this evening.

[@rickporvaznik5030]

Great job gentlemen,.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

I doubt that we’ll see much in the way of freight service. There was almost nothing back in 1978, and that was 40 years ago.

[@obfuscated3090]

We'll need those lines as development progresses in the region. Once destroyed by development they will never be restored to passenger rail transport.

[@samanthab1923]

Love ❤️ the banner!

[@EngineerCatPyro]

I loved every single one of these videos. And being I have been to Roseville Tunnel a bunch of times, It was great learning more about it. Was east of the tunnel a fill like the Pequest Fill but much shorter? Thanks for the vids!

[@Construction_King]

Engineer Cat It is called the Wharton Fill and is much shorter than the Pequest Fill.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

Evan Kolb, not a dumb question at all...the Morristown & Erie would have provided freight service over the Cut-Off had Venturail been successful in becoming the designated operator back in 1984. Their future role is unknown at this point. But given that no freight service on the Cut-Off is expected, the question is probably moot.

[@tpark5092]

THE DEER AT 54:11 ALMOST JUMPED ONTO YOU!

[@Altepeter]

So, what now in January 2021? Is the new cut-off completed and are rolling stock moving along it to market?

[@johnpluciennk4720]

Chuck, your videos are great. Are there similar efforts to extend service to Phillipsburg on the Raritan Valley Line? Do you foresee yourself making a similar video series on the Central Railroad of New Jersey mainline?

[@LackawannaCutOff]

No, I'm afraid this series is more than enough for me for the time being. There was been a lot of discussion around restoring P'Burg service and running across the river to A/B/E. The CNJ is severed at I-78, so any service would have to use the LV across I-78 (there is room for a second track there, however). I haven't closely followed the issue but my impression is that there's no dedicated entity that is working on the service, such as we have for the Cut-Off. You need both dedicated staff and grassroots support going on. Occasional political rah-rah sessions aren't enough, I'm afraid.

[@tomtom3889]

Logistics is name of the game.

[@glennhabrial5431]

minute 54.09 has two deer in the background.

[@Ken_in_Wisconsin]

Chuck I sent you a message via youtube. Let me know if you received it?

[@dunbar01]

How about a movement to reacquire the Lehigh and Hudson right of way.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

It's already being done...but by the local towns and, I guess, Green Acres funding. Turco's estate still owns part of it. We were kind of escorted out by hunters after completing our segment in Huntsville. I asked if they had permission to be there to hunt (which I know they didn't)--the right-of-way is not posted, so we were there legally and were not trespassing--and he said yes. If we were on our way in I might not have been so cooperative.

[@1940limited]

It's really a shame what happened to the L&HR. It was a fine railroad. I remember seeing a Conrail locomotive with one or two box cars go under the Rt. 80 overpass just before Allamuchy back in the early 80s. I guess that was one of its last hurrahs. Many remnants of the road are visible from Rt. 46 in the Butzville area.

[@dunbar01]

Is it going to be restored to rail. The entire bed is still good except for an area in Belvidere where some a-hole built houses and in Andover where there is a parking lot on the bed. Other than that, everything is ready for rail. The thing with the L&HR is it has alot of areas that can be commercially developed along the rail line.

[@LackawannaCutOff]

I think that reactivating even a short part of the L&HR is a longshot, even with a real big customer. Even then, because it's abandoned if the project takes any public funds it will need to go through an environmental review (that's the dreaded DEP) and that may spook any company without time and deep pockets.

[@dunbar01]

Well, reactivating the cutoff was a longshot.

[@tonejames9272]

When can we expect part 16?

[@LackawannaCutOff]

No earlier than March. Could slip into April. We’ll see.

[@andreluispachecopacheco6030]

Porque essa ferrovia acabou

[@RussellNelson]

40:00 Disagree with the need for subsidization. Profits and losses are information about what people *actually* want. When the government subsidizes things, it destroys that information. Literally, it is censoring the voice of the people. Should airlines and highways be subsidized? NO, THEY SHOULD NOT. I understand that they are, and it's hard for railroad advocates to stand by their free-market principles. But rather than saying that subsidies are necessary (they are not), we should be saying that subsidizing one industry and not a competing one is central planning. Central planning NEVER produces the benefits it claims to, and it ALWAYS creates waste and destruction. If steel wheels on steel rails are more efficient than rubber wheels on macadam roads (they are, by far), then let them compete on a level playing field. DO NOT, however, try to level the playing field by subsidies. They create political battles where none should exist.

[@davidderios1029]

Nj transit / Lackawanna merger

[@davidderios1029]

Nj transit merger