Trails Has ALWAYS Been "Anime" (Semi-Rant on Singling out Cold Steel)

[@LadyVirgilia]

Take a shot every time I say "at the time" 😅 🎮TWITCH: www.twitch.tv/ladyvirgilia 🐤TWITTER: @VirgiliaLady twitter.com/VirgiliaLady 🌟PATREON: www.patreon.com/LadyVirgilia GENSHIN LORE CHANNEL~ kzbin.info

[@bessieburnet9816]

Huh, weird. Too anime? Almost as if it was made by a Japanese company who would very obviously make the art in their country's typical style and have the same typical storytelling tropes and conventions seen in their culture. It's so weird. It's like anime is just... cartoons. In Japan. Hey, it's not just this. So many other things are hated on for being "anime", like the Smash fighters.

[@Resener1]

As a Xenoblade fan, I’ve heard the “it’s too anime” argument far too many times, especially when it comes to Xenoblade 2. It’s funny, because when it comes to that game and Cold Steel I can often find myself agreeing with, or at least understanding, the underlying argument that the person is actually making, such as “the sexualization of X character is bad.” However, people often just say something is “too anime” at first and only elaborate when asked, which makes genuine discussion and criticism a lot harder to come by. “Too anime” by itself means nothing when, like you said, the company that made the game is Japanese and clearly follows Japanese storytelling ideas and traditions.

[@bessieburnet9816]

@@Resener1 Precisely it!

[@BigKlingy]

Back in Brawl's days, people never complained about Smash characters being "too anime". Now, the internet throws a fit when a game made in Japan celebrating a Japanese company includes representatives from Japanese games.

[@bessieburnet9816]

@@BigKlingy Yeah, the regular old stupid argument for Ultimate's DLC. It's almost as if all the popular stuff in gaming comes from Japan and Japan itself has a huge monopoly on the gaming industry... 🤔

[@BigKlingy]

@@bessieburnet9816 I wouldn't exactly say that, there's a lot of big western gaming companies and Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto are massive. It's just that Smash is made by Nintendo, is mostly about Nintendo games, and Nintendo and Sakurai are based in Japan.

[@canadianbacon3846]

For every Rean speech about bonds and class 7, Lloyd has two speeches about overcoming the barriers

[@mystery8820]

You overcoming barriers?

[@canadianbacon3846]

@@mystery8820 Thanks for the correction, must have been a wonky translation thing I read at some point

[@peterparker1683]

Estelle has speeches too about how friendship will overcome anything

[@royal2852]

I never hated Rean but he's just so passive and meek that I never really got behind him or rooted for him. Lloyd might not be the deepest character ever but he had so much passion and a clear goal that he was working towards. I wanted to see him succeed and he was a real leader of men that inspired you to be hyped. Rean just never felt like that. I know he's supposed to be depressed and have low-self esteem or whatever but when Rean gives his gay ass hype and friendship speech you just don't believe it because he doesn't even believe it.

[@mystery8820]

@@royal2852 Not to mention Lloyd was… the most everyman character among them.

[@TJTheEmperor]

My biggest issue with the criticism of something being "too anime" is that it's almost meaningless. One of the reasons why I've always loved anime and manga is the incredible amount of variety - whatever kind of story you're interested in, there's probably an anime or manga that will appeal to you. But so many people still look at anime as some sort of monolith. Whenever I hear someone say something is "too anime," I always want to say to them, "What do you mean? This is nothing like, say, Space Battleship Yamato, or Maison Ikkoku, or Mushishi" (all of which are anime series I love). If their criticism was more along the lines of "I have issues with the tropes/cliches usually found in harem shows, and this game relies on them a little too much for my tastes," I wouldn't have any issues with that. But no, people just dismiss everything as "anime" and move on. It's sad.

[@Miyakolover]

Personally, I actually do have issues with people whining about tropes...because tropes in themselves aren't the issue...everything in existence has tropes...but what's important here is HOW the tropes are being handled withing the story...and to see some people judging a work because certain tropes in it exist sound very shallow to me.

[@mathewgagnier9432]

@@Miyakolover Pretty much. I get that tropes and cliches can be really bad if handled horribly in a medium, whether that be a game or series. But to criticize, let's say, Cold Steel entirely based on it's tropes? That's not a great way to judge the games overall. I've played all four Cold Steel games and loved them to bits. It's the fact that all four games connect with each other and play off of older games that make it unique. Yes, there are high school themes and young characters taking the front in battles where some might find that unrealistic, but they still mature and tackle themes that help them grow as people. I think you have an audience that's played too many western games where characters are aged up to their mid-twenties and then they see these characters and get turned off by the appeal. It's basically shōnen in RPG form, that's not changing with JRPGs. I will admit that they did overplay the school themes a bit 'Too' much, but that's my only complaint. The story outside of that captivated me regardless. Helps when the worldbuilding and characters are likeable, too.

[@Miyakolover]

@@mathewgagnier9432 I kinda find it ironic that westerners find it a turn off when they see TRAINED teenagers going to battle...but are completely okay with Ellie in the first TLOU (who's 14 at the time and had no combat experience and no training for that matter) is somehow able to outsmart and kill dozens of hunters and a few more infected all on her own handling firearms, knives and arrows like a pro...sure that is realistic! Talk about double standards...but it's worse because TLOU is meant to be grounded in reality.

[@mathewgagnier9432]

@@Miyakolover Oh, completely forgot about that game lol. Yeah, that's a good example. If Ellie can do it, why can't the Cold Steel cast? I'm in my mid-thirties and love the young protagonists in the Cold Steel games. Besides, young teens who do play it need something they can relate to. Well, maybe not the magical aspects, but there are still realistic things they can take from it at their age. Important lessons and all that.

[@Ghalion666]

@@Miyakolover oh man. Drives me nuts when people hate on Alisa cuz they say she is nothing but a walking Tsundere trope because they cant look past that ONE SCENE. Dude. You are literally being exactly what you hate about Alisa, when SHE got over it long ago, YOU didnt. Aghghgghhggh

[@Tnu1138]

As someone who 's only really played Sky and parts of Crossbell I can confirm this.

[@fancyform]

Yup. Always find it funny with fans who act like this wasn't the case. Been watching quite a few people playing the Cold Steel games here on KZbin and you can pretty much tell how they're doing it with a disgusted expression on their face. Acting like this series hasn't always been a reflection of popular anime of their times and thus leaning into various tropes. Tropes aren't inherently bad IMO, it's all about the execution. I'm one of those people who think all arcs and characters in the Trails series are good in their own way. None of them manage to escape missteps though. But the games being so anime is certainly one of the series many appeals. Just like I enjoy escaping into western RPGs in a Sci-Fi, Fantasy or more specific setting like Cyberpunk, there are certain established building blocks through character archetypes, typical group dynamics or "world rules" that establish a comforting, familiar foundation. The same thing goes for games from Japanese developers. I want to be surprised of course, but I also want to feel at home.

[@BlackyRay_Patrick]

Me as a in the past jrpg hater who fell in love with the trails series I can absolutely backup your opinion. The tropes weren't a big problem. It was many jrpg's beeing unable to developing that trope into a great character. Since western rpg's are becoming more and more of a Sandbox character with having no specific character properties at all I begin to prefer this style of building characters. Tropes help you to really fast understand how a character thinks and would behave in certain situations. So you've got something to lean on until you really get to know a character after episodes seasons or arcs.... for example I would say machias in cold steel 3 is a really different character than in Cs 1. Still how he was was understandable coming from his background and so understandable was how his opinions changed knowing class 7.... Some tropes stoll annoy me sometimes but nothing is perfect.

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

Eh, imo it does speak to a real decline in the writing quality of popular anime compared to a couple decades ago. Sky had its faults (and eugh, whoever thought that making people act weird about Agate and Tita is a fucking moron) but by and large it didn't chicken out of its story and themes. It used tropes popular at the time, no doubt, but tropes popular at the time were in general less awful than ones popular at the time Cold Steel was made. Like, say, no goddamn harem. If we could get rid of that one trope for at least a couple decades until writers and audiences get it out of their system, that'd be great.

[@bitsamui5104]

You're not wrong - I mean, Sky 2 has Loewe, a guy who uses a sword to beat down mechs and other crazy anime stuff, Walter who does anime-moves with his fists, amongst so many other anime-oriented things. I mean, the Bracer's Guild is literally just a renamed Adventurer's Guild... lmao. You might be able to say Cold Steel took it a step further with the super-mechs... but then again, Sky FC's final boss was a super mech and Ao/Zero has three super-ultra-omega mechs so....

[@BlackyRay_Patrick]

A unbreakable sword is somehow maybe even a tiny bit understandable I would wonder more about cassius destroying archaisms with a wooden staff....

[@saucinreggie7900]

Awesome video, I started with Cold Steel so hearing the complaints about it's "anime" themes and tropes and how the other games didn't do this confused the hell out of me when I went to play Sky and Crossbell😂😂. I grew up on these character tropes, so it was nice and nostalgic playing a straight up shounen anime in Sky and the dark underworld style of anime in Crossbell. I actually think it's great marketing too, cause I only started playing CS after finishing Persona 5 and I wanted that experience again. Surprisingly that wasn't a entirely unique thought cause a good handful of people I've talked to who started with CS thought the same lol. We all agreed we came out with a completely unique addiction.

[@Walamonga1313]

I never got into Persona (tho I've only tried 3 and it bored me) but I love Trails. That said I first tried Sky and I got bored (so much so I refunded the game lol) but funnily enough, during a sale I was looking for Persona 4 to give the series another try and couldn't find it. Instead I saw Cold Steel had discount so I decided what the hell, lets give Trails another try. And I absolutely loved it. So much so that I bought CS2 before I even beat the first game. After beating both I bought the Sky trilogy and this time around I really liked it thankfully (tbf I didn't know Turbo mode existed when I first tried it lol). I'm at the start of CS4 atm, then when that's done I'll have to patiently wait for more games. Perhaps I'll have a chance to retry Persona

[@revolvingworld2676]

@@Walamonga1313 Don't worry it's not uncommon to get bored of sky. The first arc of Trails games are known to start off slow. But Sky starts off REALLY slow. Especially the prologue in which nothing happens. Too slow for most people. Thankfully I didn't play Sky myself at first I was watching a lets play then I got into the games. Thats why I usually tell people to start off with Cold Steel and go back to Sky after Coldsteel 1.

[@Walamonga1313]

@@revolvingworld2676 Yeah same. I'm a Trails (well, Falcom in general) missionary now and I recommend their games to anyone willing to listen. And whenever someone says they tried and dropped Sky I tell em to give Cold Steel a chance. It's got the best quality of life features in a turn based JRPG and slightly faster pacing than Sky, so I find it a better entry point. Then just go backwards after CS2

[@BlackyRay_Patrick]

@@revolvingworld2676 that's why I am happy that have started with trails of cold steel until about 50% of cold steel 3. Beeing already hooked to the insane World building of zemuria and wanting to understand the backgrounds of all that happening is what gave me the patience to go through sky and now I am looking forward to western release of the crossbell arc.

[@sophisticatedwaltz6617]

My only problem is that bonding events is barring character backstory. But again. Crossbell is also guilty of this

[@Walamonga1313]

I KNOW RIGHT! It baffles me how so many people hate on CS for the limited point system (which I can definitely understand why it bothers some people who don't NG+) but somehow Crossbell games don't get criticised for it? Literally the only way to see them all is to use a guide and savescum

[@ThePhilosogamer]

That's neither a valid criticism nor an accurate statement. It's not accurate because Crossbell doesn't have bonding events or anything equivalent to them. The closest it has are final scenes with a character of your choice like in CSII and IV. However, even if we stretch the definition of a bonding event to include those singular scenes, it's still not a valid criticism either because a.) this is common practice in all JRPGs with a bonding event equivalent to put backstory in them (see: the last 3 games in the Persona series), and b.) only Cold Steel makes the content of these "optional" bonding events required to understand the main story (ex. The final scene of CSII in the Reverie Corridor literally makes no sense if you didn't watch Millium's "optional" bonding event where she tells Rean that she can't cry).

[@sophisticatedwaltz6617]

@@ThePhilosogamer I never said Crossbell had bonding events. I said it was guilty of also keeping vital character backstories behind a hidden value that required multiple playthroughs to see all for full context.

[@silentpresence6705]

@@ThePhilosogamer as someone who didn't do miliums bond event I just took the ending as 1 her being in class 7 as just an order so her crying to me meant she was going back to the intelligence agency for more orders and she will miss her time in class 7 (the only time she can just enjoy being herself to the fullest) besides being the only joyful one out of the ironbloods and 2 to compare her to altina both of them had basically one emotion in previous game cheerful for milium and emotionless for altina but by the end of the war arcs both of them had learn to grow more emotionally

[@joseph86255]

Most of the character backstory is given in the story itself, with bonding events mostly serving as fluff or to give a character hidden depths (e.g. that Machias prefers coffee to tea because he associates the latter drink with nobles).

[@iammaximumstupied]

I haven't played sky or Crossbell only Cold Steel, and when I first started I was like it pretty anime...then I saw your videos on the sky and CB series so I can understand the story and just seeing the highlights had me know oh it's a very anime game lol

[@Greenlord075]

I think one big factor, which ties in to some of your points, is that people playing Cold Steel more recently will be experiencing the same tropes in the anime currently airing. It would be easier to make the connections as they’ve seen the appropriate anime more recently. Even if they’ve watched the older stuff, the recollection is probably weaker - so they’re less likely to immediately make the connections when they were playing earlier arcs. It may be as a result of this, but I do think Cold Steel is a bit more in your face with the tropes. Might just be the sheer number of characters too.

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

It definitely is more unsubtle and blunt with its tropes, with a lot less psychological complexity to its characters, with some exceptions.

[@thelightningking8772]

I am willing to defend the Cold Steel games with my life and they do have a lot of anime tropes within them, but what matters is how they add nuance to them. The Trails series as a whole is good with keeping the more serious moments of the games pure of the more annoying tropes for the most part or they turn those tropes into something emotional and well written. CS2 has one of the best “friends going their separate ways” moments I’ve ever seen, even more so than Persona 4 and 5 in my opinion. There are things that the Cold Steel games can be rightfully criticized for. It had too many fake out deaths (although that didn’t bother me as much) and the whole being able to date your students thing is just weird. But Cold Steel does a lot of things right as well. For one thing it has the best use of geopolitics in the series and actually has two nuanced political factions within the empire that have their pros and cons, which is hard to pull off. It also manages to use the mechs in a satisfying way without making them the end all be all weapons for the military. Criticizing a game or an arc is fine but some people take it too far and make it seem like the Cold Steel games are just some generic forgettable anime jrpgs which alienates some potential fans. In reality the entire series is of a consistent quality which Falcom should be praised for. Sure the series has some highs and lows, but what makes it great are how good the different arcs are and how similar they are in quality. That’s really hard to maintain with a series this long. Edit - tldr: Trails is good

[@upsidedownmachiatto2670]

I was actually happy when I found out that there were more games to play. I finished Trails in the Sky on the psp. Now trying to finish the 3rd installment with Kevin on pc. Wasn't it always a bit anime even then? Didn't know there was active dating choices for Cold Steel. Though I'm not weirded out by the dynamics myself as it is just a game. Besides I've seen this IRL were some students did date and ended up marrying professors. This was University so all legal.

[@Miyakolover]

As for the fakeout deaths...may that isn't may...but I feel nowadays too many people are obsessed with death and misery (I blame Attack on Titan for popularizing it) that it's a breath of fresh air when a series doesn't end up killing most characters in the story. Edit: Wow...I can't believe how many idiots on here who can't seem to have played enough Japanese games or watched enough anime making the bullshit claim that anime has "no deaths and only fakeouts".

[@kumorizora2507]

Jrpg's faking deaths and having low death counts is a common cliche that happens all the time. Not sure how something like that can possibly be a breath of fresh air. I'd argue that it's less people are "obsessed" with anything and simply think that any stakes and tension around an encounter is taken away when they know no one is dying.

[@Miyakolover]

​@@kumorizora2507 Wrong...It seems to me you haven't played games like the Fire Emblem series, Persona 3, Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of series (mainly Berseria, Xillia, Abyss, Zestiria), Ni No Kuni II, Crystar, Devil Survivor 2...among other anime games that has plenty of deaths in them like Danganronpa, Steins;Gate, Chaos Child, 9Hours 9 Persons 9 Doors, Virtues Last Reward, Zero Time Dilemma, etc. Among others that escape me at the moment.

[@kumorizora2507]

@@Miyakolover Every rule has it's exceptions. "Plenty of death" is far from common in the genre and a series/game not having that is ways away from subverting expectations.

[@emblemknightrg2529]

Estelle and Joshua have a big adventure like a shounen protagonist. Rean and Lloyd are more like light novel harem protagonists. Van is more from a slightly more darker anime but I think crimson could make a little change. Cold Steel became the gateway/point of entry to many myself included towards kiseki so they will use that to compare and criticize any/everything in the saga as we continue from game to game.

[@mystery8820]

I am not mad about Elise falling for Rean, but I am mad that we don’t see enough interactions to justify that. With E and J, they spent time together almost the entire trilogy.

[@revolvingworld2676]

@@mystery8820 Yup although I don't like the harem gameplay aspects. It honestly prevents from a proper development of a canon pairing. I'd be fine Rean had a canon partner with good development. But the bonding event romantic options limit that. Thats one criticism I can understand. Thats the only trope I have a problem with.

[@mystery8820]

@@revolvingworld2676 And much of the good chapters of the developments of these characters are locked by these events. Hell, some of them have their context locked in a previous chapter that you may have missed.

[@mystery8820]

@@revolvingworld2676 Also, yes. IMO, if these games had no harem, Rean and Alisa would be officially dating and probably married.

[@revolvingworld2676]

@@mystery8820 I don't like forcing my ships so I didn't mention it but yeah Alisa is the one I see in a relationship with Rean.

[@BigKlingy]

"Tropes are not necessarily bad". Unless they're Angelica, or modern hot spring scenes. Otherwise, I agree with you. I don't even know what Baccano is and just seeing that poster makes me think "it's literally just the SSS." Would Psycho Pass also fit into that "urban crime anime" theme from around the Crossbell days? Those were the years I was at a university anime club and I know we watched Psycho Pass there. And also among Cold Steel "mid-late 2010's" tropes.... I don't think Crow being scarily similar to... another Crow, is a coincidence. Oh man, I remember EXACTLY the feeling of waiting for videos to buffer for 30 minutes! Okay, so here's my "50 Mira" on the issue. First, nostalgia goggles. Modern tropes become so ingrained and criticised that older tropes end up looking original by comparison, and that's probably what happens when people go from Cold Steel to Sky. Tropes tend to work in cycles, when a modern trope gets overused and falls out of favour, people turn to the old one. That's why Fantasy tends to run on a cycle of "black and white morality heroic fantasy" to "GoT-style grey morality dark, deconstructive fantasy" and back again. People get sick of one and want the other again. Similarly, western animated fairy tales started going cynical and deconstructive with Shrek when people got sick of classic Disney, then people got sick of Shrek clones and classic fairytale Disney came back with Tangled and Frozen. Then people got sick of THAT and parodies came back, etc. Secondly, and this is only a personal observation as I haven't been in the anime fandom much since 2015, but I feel like the overall perception of anime in the west has gone through a lot of changes. The 90's to late 2000's was the "golden age" of anime in the west. It was cool to like it and everyone was talking about it. "Otaku" culture was in full-swing and westerners became obsessed with Japan in general. Somewhere in the late-mid-2010's, there was a sudden swingback towards violent HATRED of anime, and even everything Japanese. I don't exactly know WHY this happened (part of me wants to say Final Fantasy XIII and its reception sparked the trend?), but you never used to get people complaining about Smash characters being "too anime", and hatred of Japanese artstyles and tropes would even veer into actual xenophobia at times. Japanese media was no longer cool and you would be shunned for liking it. In the late 2010's, things seem to have calmed down to a far more "neutral" take. "Some anime is good, some is bad, and let's stop blindly worshipping Japanese culture but not blindly hate it either." At the same time, there's a different issue now: the rise of Isekai anime and a lot of internet anime culture revolving around bashing Sword Art Online. So with that, it's clear to me why Cold Steel's anime tropes get bashed so much: they just happen to line up with the internet's favourite punching-bags at the time. I actually think I came to appreciate Rean a lot more because I had no idea of the light novel protag tropes until after I'd finished CS1 and 2, so I had no frame of reference for his character. The school setting is also a common punching bag since a lot of videogames are trying to emulate Persona now. So again, unlike Sky, Cold Steel's anime tropes happen to be tropes that are right in the firing line at the moment, which causes the "too tropey" reputation. To me though, the only part where I feel tropes actively hurt Cold Steel's writing is the harem. Like you I've got a lot of issues with Cold Steel's writing, but 99% of them don't come from tropes. I think when most Trails fans say "they should go back to the old writing", they mean the Sky arc having stronger characters, world-building, and not glossing over dark things like Hamel or Renne's and Kevin's backstories. I do still think the Sky arc has the best writing in the series. But I really enjoyed CS1 and 2 as well.

[@historian252]

Nah Angelica is rather indicative of the wider world in its reference.

[@connor217]

Interesting to see your perspective here, and I agree with most of what you said, in the last paragraph in particular. Another example where I prefer sky's writing is the initial set up for the society. In sky there's a full game where when their existence is revealed it puts a lot of events into perspective. Meanwhile in cold steel 1 and 2 they feel more like a foot note than anything else. Almost as if they assume that you've played the other trails games, which feels off considering this is supposed to be a starting point. (For reference I've played the sky trilogy along with CS 1&2 so far)

[@wishuponamonkeyspaw2458]

I'd say it's less that Cold Steel is uniquely tropey, and more that the characters aren't fleshed out to the same degree, which leads to the games leaning more on those tropes instead. And the fact that the main party are all teens doesn't exactly help. Or how everything revolves around the protagonist, where previously the interactions between other party members and significant NPCs could get pretty meaty. Then again, that last one's a problem that started all the way back in the Crossbell arc, so it's hardly fair to put it solely on CS. Further, there's the issue of missed opportunities throughout the Erebonia arc. Just as an example to prove a point, what's going on between Laura and Fie in CS1? Is it a clash of beliefs between an honourable, hard-working noble who's trained her whole life to master the sword versus a slothful merc with real battlefield experience who won't hesitate to fight dirty to survive? Not really. They just don't get along, that's all. And then they duel and become BFFs, except none of it gets brought up again. Because nothing's been set up, nothing can really be resolved either, or be used as a payoff in the future. Contrast that with Tita. In FC she's very much flawed, to the point her standout moment in the game is her mucking up the confrontation at Carnelia Tower and almost getting Agate killed. She learns from her experiences and becomes more responsible and determined, to the point she's willing to help develop the Orbal Gear even with the knowledge she may end up partially culpable for many lives lost.

[@TSignature]

Now I’ll never unsee Estelle as Gon and Joshua as Killua.. the comparison is too similar how did I never notice this before…

[@LadyVirgilia]

It's uncannily similar isn't it? 😂

[@TSignature]

@@LadyVirgilia Estelle and Gon even have the mysterious but extremely badass father thing going on 😳 Joshua and Killua both have flawed older brother figures who are antagonists, wait a minute Falcom…

[@NachtKaiser666]

@@TSignature even more uncanny is comparing her to Sonsaku Hakufu of Ikki Tousen, a fan service fighting manga(2000) and anime (2003) loosely based on Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Sonsaku has the same playful and badass energy as Estelle, though she's clearly dumber. I would've never made the parallel between the two before this video 😅

[@historian252]

It is nowhere near that.

[@finfin9031]

Cool

[@kogashinto2123]

I fking love this channel. Keep up good work

[@SheldonKreger]

We appreciate your creative and original videos! You are THE BEST!!!

[@jesserivera2043]

Cold Steel reminds me of the Naruto or My Hero Academia styles of character ensembles, with several characters orbiting around a Chosen One type.

[@darkhorse744]

"Too Anime" is just a crappy complaint in general, one that I hear FAR too often. Nice to see a video pointing that out.

[@Gdg195]

naah too anime schoolboy 15 years old boy troupe so cringe

[@LOREWITHBLAZER]

I remember where the game started with tomboy looking for her boyfriend and dad

[@hollowman7168]

I mean, did people forget this entire series started of with trails of the sky, a story about a girl and her undying affection for basically her step brother, something that people get mad at ellise for doing even though it's the exact some situation....

[@BigKlingy]

To be fair, Estelle/Joshua is one of the few cases where it's mostly accepted because he wasn't adopted into the family until they were both 10/11 and they've only known eachother for 5 years, while Elise grew up thinking of Rean as an actual sibling. I don't dislike Elise because she's the "adoptive sibling romance" trope, I dislike her because she's one of its worst examples.

[@Daloofus]

@BigKlingy that's reaching tbh. It doesn't matter "how much they seem like siblings" they both just are and it's strange either way. The factor going against Elise is that she isn't the main character so we care about her significantly less.

[@BigKlingy]

@@Daloofus It's more that Elise doesn't have much personality or role besides being obsessively in love with Rean while constantly calling him her brother. And Rean being dense about the whole thing until late CS4.

[@Daloofus]

@BigKlingy that's basically what I said, she's not a main character or even a character we see semi often so she doesn't have even a fraction the personality or development Estelle has, so to compare them is a mistake. But they both go through the same misery of having a brother they're in love with, like having to hide it and having competition with actual main characters. If Elise was in Class VII with Rean it would feel much different.

[@luminous3558]

@@Daloofus Considering most of class 7 still manages to be unremarkable after 4 games I doubt it.

[@Austingoo0505]

My only big wish of "going back to how it was" was getting rid of the bonding point and making actual canon romances that are better written rather than "choose your romance". I think you lose a lot when you try to leave every person available to ship with the MC.

[@jamesmaclennan4525]

On the other hand a canon romance in Cold Steel would have left us with the awful Alisa..can't stand that girl.

[@557deadpool]

@@jamesmaclennan4525 like the others are better?

[@projectmessiah]

@@557deadpool I don't think Alisa is bad myself actually but she I get why people don't like her. What's your beef with Fie, Laura and Emma though?

[@darknessknows1235]

tbh I don't mind the lack of or need to have a canon romance. Plenty of JRPGs have Legacies show up just fine without needing to know their romantic lives. I don't even mean just Persona either.

[@Daylenify]

@@jamesmaclennan4525 Thats kind of not true. Celine is only there cause of binding points, thats what a falcom developer explained in an interview. If Celine wasnt there, Emma would the closest to rean by far. Not that Emma is better written, no, but all females are with meh cause of this "all need to open for choice" so they couldnt rly deepen the relationship between them like Estelle and Joshua. They would for sure delivered if they had not focus on a soulless harem.

[@Cman04092]

I cant really comment on the anime thing. The only anime I ever watched was dragonball Z when i was a kid. It was interesting to see your perspective on this though.

[@ratkon]

I've started playing the trails series for the first time last year, finished azure last week and now I'm on cold steel 1 second chapter and I'll be honest, i feel like this will be my least favorite arc and i can resonate with the "too anime" criticism, although i wouldn't put it that way. Aside from how poorly cold steel aged when compared to sky and crossbell which have a certain ps1 charm to them. Cold steel setting, characters and premisses in general so far feel disappointing to me. Like, i finally got to the infamous erebonian empire, but the plot revolve on a harem wannabe magical school setting that i have read a million times in generic light novels. The way how we already get a "lucky sukebe" scene in the prologue as a way of introducing the supposed "main" girl made me think "oh, this doesn't feel like the trails i got to know and love". And from what i was told by veterans, i won't get character dynamics like in sky where characters developed interest in one another anymore because they decide to double down on the bonding system from crossbell, and took inspiration from persona. So now everything resolves around the main character, the fact that Rean can also romance with literally anyone also makes it way less interesting than something like estelle and joshua. I plan to play it to the end of the arc, hoping it will get better, but so far i feel a bit allienated and can completely understand where the "too anime" is coming from

[@metaknightguyWII]

“Too anime” has really started to annoy me. It’s like certain people have a problem with Japanese companies using the tropes but when western media games/tv/movies uses the tropes every thing is cool. Weird double standard

[@BlackyRay_Patrick]

I personally see big differences in anime and western tropes. Anime tropes are far more extreme in their behaviour and also edging with social standards a lot more. Compared to Japanese tropes every western one is a boring standard person.... I also have to say I was a bit annoyed about those character behaviour sometimes, but gladly nihon falcom knows how to develope characters....

[@dariusdrake7515]

See, the difference there is that Westerner's grew up saturated with Western Tropes and instinctively understand them, while we see Asian/Japanese Tropes only in Anime and feel less "instinctive hand wave the issues away" to them. Basically, it's a "weird" double standard because people don't think about things, they just react instinctively and decide that instinct must be correct.

[@ltb1345]

@@BlackyRay_Patrick They seem far more extreme to us because of the fact that we're not from Japan though.

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

@@dariusdrake7515 Tbh there's plenty of Western media tropes I find uncomfortable - it's why I rarely want to watch anything with romance in it - but to our credit, "character accidentally gropes woman and gets slapped/called a pervert" at least isn't one of those.

[@wulfydg2592]

It's less about being "too anime", as I'll concede to Sky being tropey itself. It's more about which specific tropes and above all how the female characters and romance is treated in CS, along with characters group dynamics which blow in CS. I don't dislike the CS games, but it's definitely a drop in quality writing wise.

[@RaifSeverence]

And what specifically about the females and romance do you take issue with? I think their fine. Especially since they were included (as far as Falcom has stated amyway) to show that Rean is at a point in his life where he has options since Rean finding his path in life was a core theme of CS1. Hell, I'd say this handles romance better than say Persona because there isn't a harem option. You can ONLY choose one per game with CS4 being the only one that really matters.

[@diegonunes5896]

What bothers me the most about CS is that it feels all very inconsequential. You fight some of your friends fighting for the other side so many times, and after they are beat they just leave and live to fight and cause trouble another day. And this happens so many times... I hated that so much.

[@megamike15]

see i always understand when people say cold steel is to much like anime they mean modern 2010's anime. not alot of people myself included are really that big on the current trends of anime. so it's more a preference for the 90/2000's anime.

[@eluvianii]

I always found that so weird. Since I started the series a thing I noticed was how most characters start as walking tropes, but they use those tropes to develop and in the end outgrow them, becoming their own person. From the way people talked about Cold Steel I was kind of expecting that to no longer be the case. That maybe the characters started as tropes and then just, stayed static or something. I have now finished the arc however and I just don't see it, the character development I liked so much in previous arcs is still present.

[@Xpert74]

Good video - thank you for making this! I'm not a super-avid viewer of anime, but yeah, it's a good point how each Trails arc draws from assorted anime tropes - they just draw from different ones, depending on the era. It kinda makes me think of how other long-running series of games, such as Fire Emblem, do something similar with each new entry in the series - ultimately they have changed in some ways with time, but they've always drawn from anime as a source of inspiration.

[@redmagusmorgan]

I think to me, personally, the issue I have with Cold Steel being more "anime" comes down to the specific tropes it draws on more than the past. But I definitely agree - Trails has ALWAYS been anime (and thats why I love it, im a sucker for power of friendship and super powerful flashy techniques), so maybe 'too anime' is a bad way to refer to the issues with it. The specific 'anime'-y tropes (used loosely here) that I find more prevalent and annoying in Cold Steel are kinda the root of MY personal complaints about the arc: specifically stuff like the more Dating Sim-y aspects (everyone has a crush on the self-inserty protag, which Lloyd admittedly did first), the weird Sibling-Not Sibling romance stuff (which feels 10x more weird and pander-y than with Estelle/Joshua), TONS of more fanservice and weirdness of high schoolers than earlier in the series (Altina's design, weird comments about the girls' bodies, even back in Azure with the weird ass Beach scenes). Again - those things definitely appear in other trails games, like you mention, just bumped up to 11 in CS. These tropes being a little more icky in my eyes is what leads to me sorta longing for the older days of Trails where they were a Lot less prevalent. Which is what I assume some other people feel when they complain about the "anime'-ness of Trails. (An aside: One icky trope thats been in full force through the WHOLE series is the creepy depiction of LGBT characters played up for laughs, with Olivier and Angelica. Can't even blame Cold Steel for that one, that just sucks in the series overall.) IDK! Just my two cents, but I did enjoy the video and the chance to discuss this topic! I'm still a Trails fan through and through, I just do wish some of these tropes were less prevalent. The harmless ones? Like high schoolers saving the world? Those rule, lets keep those going.

[@boomerg7315]

Everytime i talk about trails with my friends, i always tell them that it's like playing a very VERY long anime, so i agree with you xD

[@shinkaiatsuya950]

I dont really play RPG games as not a fan of turn base but when I tried out Trials of Cold Steel its actually pretty fun, even tho I know nothing of strategy.

[@Walamonga1313]

This is pretty much why I like Trails. It's fun as hell to play and the soundtracks are amazing. The rest of stuff (characters, world, atmosphere, etc) grows on you the more you play and you start caring for the lore and characters along the way. Really my only complaints about the series is how barely anyone dies even tho there's supposed to be really powerful villains and crime/war going on

[@ProfessorPrinny]

As you've said, there's no issue using tropes but Cold Steel's problem in general was the execution, presentation and even the volume of them, leading to a varied levels of depth in their exploration (A "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" situation). Crossbell is more easily forgiven since it doesn't take long for the arc to show its potential depth beyond the tropes it uses. That being said, the Erebonia arc is still an enjoyable experience. Just a lot more of it needed to go through the cutting room floor.

[@DiabolicCrusher]

Kiseki series is unique in a way on how it incorporates politics and the world building, but some people keep forgetting it also likes overusing some vn/anime/manga tropes. Was true for sora, true for ao/zero and sen, and is still true for Kuro. So yeah, playable anime, with politics, bestelle, speeches about barriers, cool mechs and transformation, can't wait to find out what will be the gimmick of the arc after calvard.

[@ProfessorTofty]

The Cold Steel games were the first I played. I picked up the first game for PS3 on a lark at a local library and from there it was love - got the second game the day it came back and haven't looked back. I've since played Trails in the Sky, which is also great in its own way, but yes, I absolutely love Cold Steel. I am waiting to play Zero until the official release.

[@shadowsquid1351]

I swear your videos are probably the most rational videos I have seen! This subject has annoyed me for years lol it's not just for Trails but Fire Emblem, SMT, Persona, Xenoblade.. it never ends. JRPGs are influenced by anime & always have been, whatever new thing anime has it'll be reflected in modern RPGs.

[@bessieburnet9816]

"JRPGs are influenced by anime" Weird. Almost as if the J means Japanese. And anime is just Japanese cartoons. Almost as of games and cartoons are two ways of portraying a story. Almost as if they were made by Japanese people.

[@shadowsquid1351]

@@bessieburnet9816 Just like how the western games are mostly influenced by Hollywood/Netflix. At the end of the day it doesn't matter the look of the game but the actual bad tropes in characters/stories, these are way more annoying than just how the game looks, both Japanese & western are victims to some of these boring tropes.

[@Shoggunik]

Heyyy I just found your channel and as a more of a casual Trails fan (if you can be casual Trails fan :P ) I love it. Thanks for great content and this video was interesting in particular

[@blackdragoncyrus]

I don't really care if the games are "too anime" or not, I just want them to be good. But the Cold Steel arc is just written really sloppily compared to the previous games.

[@cranesalvation8391]

LadyVirgilia is really out here dropping facts

[@rommeleseusmods]

that actually reminds me of what people said about soul hackers 2 being "too anime" (when the first game is basically 90s sci-fi/cyberpunk anime stuff). Getting out of the way that being "too anime" doesn't add anything and I see it more as the person doesn't knowing how to set their point as to why the dislike something, I see it more as this: Nostalgia glasses basically, it doesn't take much time to an average person to know that early 2000s games feels similar to 2000s anime, 2010s games feels similar to 2010s anime (its the same for the western games, 2000s games feels similar to 2000s movies or series or whatnot), and you have the culture itself, there's a reason that cyberpunk theme in the 90s is different from nowadays. So since if feels similar to those shows that people watched when they were younger and etc they have a better opinion regarding to that, hence they say "too anime" for stuff more modern that they don't like for X or Y reason (sometimes with a lack of criticism). But yeah as another comment said it's almost as if its a japanese company making media in their own countries style. All in all I think this type of "criticism" actually makes it for a good comic relief, I mean sometimes you can't help but laugh XD.

[@Amaror2]

I played the entire trails series fairly recently. I barely watched any anime when I was younger. I had no nostalgia for either trails games or older anime. And I still felt that cold steel felt significantly worse with it's anime tropes compared to sky. It's not how many anime tropes there are or even what anime tropes there are. A lot of the more aggravating tropes of cold steel are also in the older games. It's how those tropes are executed and they are much worse executed in cold steel than they are in sky or crossbell. Like the sibling romance in sky gradually moves from a sibling relationship to a romantic relationship. It's a slow shift that the players also experience and can easier relate to. In cold steel the sibling romance is one character basically repeating "You are my brother and I love you" in every scene she is in at least once.

[@rommeleseusmods]

when the more modern media is taking the more modern tropes they will be more apparent to the average person, but yes you do have a point as to how they are executed, no matter if they are old or newer media if they execute in a poor manner it's gonna be more whatever or even annoying to the person

[@Amaror2]

@@rommeleseusmods Like I said, it's not about tropes being apparent. Tropes aren't inherently bad, every story has tons of tropes. It's using tropes badly that's the problem. A few more examples: 'Haha a woman sexualy assaults another woman' - that pretty much always sucks. But in crossbell it's done by a villain against a heroine and it comes up several times again as an event that the victim severely disliked and remembers negatively. In cold steel 4 it's done by a heroine against another heroine. It never comes up again, the perpetrator doesn't get called out by anyone. And it also incidently sexualises a character that looks like a child. Leading us to the x hundred year old loli. This one always feel kindof gross because it feels like it makes excuses to have a forever loli in its story. It also doesn't help that falcom also makes her act like a literal child sometimes and puts her into srxual situations several times. Angelica starts out as a female lesbian version of Olivier. Then she looses a lot of that personality in cs 3 and 4 and just turns into the serial sexual harrasser. Shw also turns into a child predator when confronted with Kia, Renne and tita, which doesn't improve things. And the other games aren't perfect either. Crossbell starts the whole harem thing which cs expands upon. And sky had also several scenes that are pretty yikes, like Olivier offering to take the virginity of a then-underage teenage Estelle. Or everyone constantly shipping Tita and agate. But in sky and crossbell those moments are few and far between. In cold steel it feels like those annoying tropes come up constantly.

[@rommeleseusmods]

@@Amaror2 yeah like I said in my first reply, you have a point xD

[@Walamonga1313]

Ah thank you for saying this. I don't get why people single out the Cold Steel games when the entire scene has always been "look at my anime powerup, my yelling makes me more powerful" lol. Honestly these games are so well made I don't even mind, I tend not to like stuff like that but Trails is just too good for me not to enjoy. I reckon the biggest reason is that older games had very tiny, chibi models so the closest resemblance to anime were the portraits and on top of that they barely had any voice acting, which meant that you could give them whatever voices you wanted in your head. One problem I've always had with the series is how, just like most "shonen" stuff, they tend to shy away from deaths. Seriously, in Sky does anybody even die after a million fights? I guess you could say Lowe but even then he wasn't even main party member at any point. It's honestly pretty dumb how throughout the whole series (including CS) barely anyone dies, even amongst antagonists. Makes events harder to take seriously. But oh well, I mainly play these for the banger soundtracks and the best turn based combat to have ever existed.

[@edwardjam9832]

Its just over the top with the Cold Steel series, Sky I could handle without throwing up.

[@Stephon9015]

I fell in love with trails because it was anime but a game I could play. I never had a doubt about that since 2015 lol.

[@fabiof.8152]

Great vid! Totally agree with you, I don't get the hate for Cold Steel when comparing it to the rest of the series. Also, great argumentation! I think that one of the reasons people say Cold Steel is more "anime" than the others is because the games are in full 3D, so they depict the characters with much clearer "anime" mannerisms and stuff. It doesn't seem like much at first glance, but it does leave a deep impression on you while playing the game and taking in the characters!

[@Tyfighter-ef8el]

Great video. I've seen that people have been generally complaining about JRPG's Cold Steel and persona's 4 and 5 for being "too anime" but many people don't realize that JRPG's have had anime baked into their very DNA since the beginning with dragon quest originally being advertized in weekly shonen jump and Akira toriyama doing the character designs. I think what people miss is that anime has changed from the 90's to now and that's reflected in most JRPG's, as you demonstrated with how trails in the sky takes a lot of influence from the anime of the early 2000's. Even Grandia 1 from the late 90's feels inspired by the adventure anime that came out during the decade (mainly Nadia the secret of the blue water). I think when people complain that CS and Persona are "too anime" more likely then not, they mean it's too much like modern anime, which I can understand. Though the way CS executes most of the modern anime tropes i don't like (like rean=LN protag) so well, it's amazing how much I like it lol

[@asaka616]

OMG THANK YOU for making this! This is the criticism i see levied the most against Cold Steel and it just doesn't hold water! Thanks for the catharsis! Too anime? Why are you even playing a JRPG then?

[@FlippyMcGiantDad]

Girl and her (adopted) brother go on a journey across the kingdom that has to deal with an empire and a republic, with a MARKET TOWN, a WATER TOWN with an ORPHANAGE and a SCHOOL nearby, an INDUSTRIAL TOWN, a CAPITAL CITY. Party members are a tomboy, her brother with a mysterious past, a one colour off blonde hair brown skinned anime lady (silver in this case), a massive flirt, a guy with hot blood and a big sword, a schoolgirl, a small girl with a big gun, and actually a Chinese dude. I love Sky (and the others) and it's super anime. Maybe some of the tropes are outdated and people don't recognize them?

[@Walamonga1313]

Perhaps the opposite, people have nostalgia for those old anime and in turn, enjoy/ignore the tropes in Sky.

[@tipulsar85]

I'm going to say that Ys has also started to lean a bit more on the anime, as of the 2000s. That isn't it hasn't started with it aesthetically (the PC 88was limited in color depth), but the plotting certainly has ramped up the OVA Fantasy feel since Ys 6: Ark of Napishtim, even the remakes of 3 and 4.

[@tenaciousrodent6251]

More anime?: NO More dating sim-ish?: RESOUNDING YES

[@UnKnownSalvation]

The first Trails game literally had a man smash a thousand year old robot to death with a stick to save his two children and their two friends. The second game had those same two children fight a literal sociopath that had fused with a piece of a goddess. The third takes place entirely inside a cube world created of the new main character's repressed emotions after he murdered his mentor with magic spears composed of time magic. If that's not anime, what the hell is?

[@papapalps2415]

Its rather bizarre why you think creatively, selectively describing Sky in a manner that suits your agenda is an actual argument.

[@Low_Tier_Elf]

?

[@holy9781]

I love thats its like anime.i love the idea of seeing my character grow even when I'm not playing them or they are the mains of the arc.no series does it better than the trails series...and yes I remember buffering to watch episodes of dbz that didn't air on toonami,ya thats way old school

[@mysticjrpg7204]

Great Video! I always enjoy your trails content! :)

[@mysticjrpg7204]

I remember you talking about this very topic in your last FC playthrough stream

[@bubbletea_]

This video is too anime. I’m disappointed with the current state of KZbinrs at the moment. They don’t make ‘‘em like they used to.

[@KnightWolfVT]

It's such a strange argument to begin with I was playing jrpgs during the PS1 era and the tropes have always been in this genre .

[@wildairman1327]

The cold steel series is easily the top game in in my list when it comes to story. Im excited to play the crossbell arc soon!

[@NTLuck]

Never really felt it was too anime. My only complain about Cold Steel is it felt like it was going too dark by killing off some characters only to necro them back again. I guess deep down Falcom wanted to follow a troupe of a certain popular TV show that was airing at the same time as the Cold Steel arc which was notorious for killing off well liked characters, only to remember that they are anime lol.

[@kumorizora2507]

Got didnt invent killing off characters.

[@dangox3370]

nobody stays dead in Cold Steel. Thats the worst "anime" thing about it.

[@Botruc]

100% agree with you! I think people that complain about 'anime in their JRPG' do not realise that most (if not all) RPGs coming from Japan will, of course, have tropes that are found in animes. It doesn't mean these tropes are 'anime', they are just storytelling tools that are frequently used in Japanese culture (and for some universally). I see a lot of people complaining about exactly the same 'problem' regarding Xenoblade 2 in comparison with the first one. I am trying really hard now to come up with an example of a JRPG that do not use 'anime tropes' and I can not find one (and I played a lot of them). I'd argue that these tropes are big reasons why these RPGs are beloved by so many. I speak french and I feel like animes have always been popular in the french speaking world (almost mainstream, unlike in the US where it seems to be a bit more niche). This familiarity with these tropes and appreciation for Japanese culture could explain why the french market is so important for JRPGs (a big reason why Falcom decided to go with NISA instead of Xseed is because they could offer french translation). Personnaly, I think some tropes should be laid to rest (harem, underage relationship, the naturaly gifted geniuses/warriors that are just too good to exist...) but overall they do not prevent me to like a good story! Finally, I think a case could be made that Cold Steel's writing was a bit sub par compared to the rest of the series, but the fault for me does not lie with the tropes used but rather other reasons, for example like you mentioned some gameplay elements (bonding events), bloated cast, reluctance to kill off beloved cast/villains. The story would have benefited from having a good editor (if it were a book, I do not know how games stories are written/created).

[@musicsurfer8027]

I've only played the demo for trails 3 on the switch, and I got hooked from that alone. I am waiting to buy/play the games though until they come out on the switch due to the rumors I've heard. I also heard that its getting its own anime which I thinks great. Maybe they aren't telling the same stories in the sane way as before, but I still like what they're doing. Reen is still the best, he just has to get past his self doubt!

[@jzblue345]

You made a video of exactly what I was thinking lol.

[@omensoffate]

I wouldn’t mind going back to the art style of the old games. I like they ps1 era graphics

[@mzxa9988]

I agree completely with your takes

[@Y2KAM]

I think the "too anime" comments come from the fact that now everything is fully voice acted so some scenes which normally would be left up to how you think characters would sound in your head now have a definitive voice and tone. With all that being said as a new fan to the series i did find that cold steel in particular went further down the "bad anime writing" when it came to the more serious plot revelations later on especially cold steel 4

[@Jarjarfunk]

I've been making this argument on deaf ears

[@ToddMa09]

I mean, the two main characters of the original game are adoptive siblings who end up dating. If that isn't anime, I don't know what is.

[@ScuzoidMelee]

As someone who enjoys a small amount of anime and a medium amount of jrpgs, just wanted to state my perspective. I have 6 hours of gameplay logged in Legend of Heroes: Trails in the sky. I won't argue whether it's a great game as that doesn't seem to be a debate. I just found the game to be way too anime for my taste.

[@Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhyyy]

I did play all the way through legends of heroes 1,2, & 3 on the psp, but I never played anything else. I really want to get into the trails series. My pc is back home I’m away for work. I have access to a switch and my roommates ps5. Could I start zero or cold steel and then go back and play sky. If so which one should I start with Zero or cold steel?

[@ayatok4870]

playing again cold steel again after long time ironic but its hard to wait The Legend of Heroes: Trails into Reverie on steam

[@nightwolf235]

Awww I love this series with a passion. I remember I had just finished watching Llelouch of the rebellion and then I started playing CS2 and was like lol did the creator just watch this and was like I want mechs in this game lmao xD. You are very correct with the popular anime of the time influenced the arc but I love them all anyway. “Too anime” no such thing! Btw I watched your crossbell cahpter reviews around I wanna say a year or more ago back when I wanted to know more about the arc since It wasn’t localized yet. It influenced me to find a way to play the game. Best decisionI made!

[@KaiSaeren]

Yea Kiseki has always been at least a little anime pretty much all jrpgs are, no issue with that nor with use of tropes in general, its just that the older ones resemble good anime, and the CS games for the most part the modern day harem shounen and not the good kind. Tho the argument isnt neccesarily wrong tbh, its not the reason why CS is thought of as worse but it is far more anime, far more tropey than the older games, even if its simply because people do not know of that many anime from back then, its simply far more visible and more on the nose. Not to mention if the series continues to rely on the same tropes, on the same execution of stuff etc., it will innevitably suffer a diminishing returns because people simply see it coming and do not enjoy it as much anymore. In any case, CS being too anime is certainly not its issue, havnt really heard that argument much tbh, its simply worse written in general and they had different preferences, choosing different tropes, some that may not have aged well or been overdone, when making it. They are all still great games more or less, just not as good as it was, not in the story and character department at least, especially CS IV which sacrifices logic and sense for spectacle. CS is deeply flawed, its not as tho the older games didnt do similar stuff they just did it in moderation and far better, CS magnified all of its issues as a series and ended on a real low point because of it. Kuro seems to be very good tho. There is a big disconnect between older and newer fans in this regard as well, I remember when I started playing CS I was pretty much alright with it untill it slowly started to get on my nerves, with Rean being poor protagonist, the harem becoming more pronounced, the cast being bloated, the actions oftentimes nonsensical and unexplained etc., over the time it simply minimized what I enjoyed about the previous games and maximized what I didnt care for, thats something that new fans will never have an issue with since they have nothing to compare it to. But you will notice that those who actually did go back to play Sky and Crossbell will generally be of the mind that either all of Kiseki is fantastic, or the older games are better, even if they still enjoy CS as well. CS is simply divisive, it sold best out of the entire series but thats for obvious reasons, not just due to its quality and much like its protagonist, its dearly beloved by many while simultaneously disliked by just as many, meaning that they decidedly did fail somewhere. But this isnt a place for prolonged debates I have already spent far too much time debating about this sort of stuff, embarassing amount of time really :D and eventually I just came to the conclussion that its better to just not care as much and not be as involved because than you will simply either be mad and dissapointed, CS made me much less of Kiseki fan in the end, it gives me better understanding of the series objectively but it robbed me of my of the magic I used to feel while playing it, sadly it also goes for my replays of the older games, now seeing the issues that CS would go on to make so pronounced in the future and being annoyed at them. In either case, at the very least I absolutely dissagree about Rean being more deep than the average jrpg protag, you correctly liken him to Kirito, whom many people would also argue to death about how he is amazing and deep, but yea, at best he is a failed attempt at manipulating our emotions through projecting into someone with "low selfesteem" just letting that one self created and propagated issue take care of anything character related, at worst he is an empty shell of what he could have been but forced into a mold by what was neccessary for the game features and story to work, its not for nothing that as opposed to the previous titles Rean is much more of a solo presence in the leading seat, lacking any sort of co protagonist to carry the weight and the fact that unlike with previous games, it doesnt feel like our characters are on an adventure unraveling the plot, its just plot happening to Rean whenever he goes, without him actually moving it forward. There is a reason why he is so divisive, its genuinely either love or hate with him, either he is the best protag and best antagonist, or he is just a wasted opportunity at best. And just like in general, the amount of self perpetuated angst coming out of him, how he is center of everyones universe, the fucking onsen scenes, could we have at least a few hours of the game without someone reminding us how amazing Rean is supposed to be and how everyone just has to love him, while throwing at him an ever increasing amount of things to make him special as if aware he isnt interesting enough on his own, thats just such insecure writing. I will never forget begining of CS III when the new class VII just stops in their tracks to talk about how amazing Rean is, in case we forgot from the last game, for a couple of minutes, while a city is literally being shelled right next to them... I immidiately knew that we are in for something that simply should not be taken seriously by any means.

[@royal2852]

Could not agree more.

[@KudaGeatsune3821]

Too anime? TOO ANIME! Trails has ALWAYS BEEN ANIME INDEED! If you can't handle that go home

[@dariusdrake7515]

I have recently played through the Sky & Cold Steel Series, and have to say that I have only one major complaint about the story I've seen, and it isn't that it's "too anime". It's that, if all else is consistent but the fairly minor changes required to facilitate this, Juna should have been the MC of Cold Steel 3 instead of Rean being the MC for the third time. To be clear (without spoilers), I'm specifying Juna due to the fact that I feel like her character is more suited for the "Trails MC" role than Kurt, while Altina doesn't fit the Trails MC role at all, and the other members join class 7 late.

[@joshkarn1951]

One of the reasons i dismissed Cold Steel until playing this year was i expected it to be very cringey, especially with the tachi wielding rean. was surprised early on with how much i liked rean and thoroughly enjoyed the CS arc, and am extremely hyped for Kai

[@efrenarevalo2025]

My biggest issue with Trails games is that they are fun to play but very tedious to replay for completion. The game makes me want to use a walkthrough on a blind playthrough which sucks.

[@Walamonga1313]

Really? Idk about that, Trails are one of the very few JRPGs I've replayed simply because it's not a chore to do so. Turbo mode is a godsend, coupled with being able to skip all dialogue holding a button. NG+ allows you to carry stuff over so you can blaze past most stuff. That said I agree they pretty much need a guide if you want to make the most of em. Even the CS games and their quality of life improvements still managed to hide stuff from me on first playthroughs. But personally idm that, since I really enjoy the gameplay and soundtracks so it makes me want to replay them (as well as refreshing my memory since there's so many characters and events that happen). The biggest issue imo is how they make it so you pretty much HAVE TO talk to every single npc after every single story point just so you don't miss anything. And there's a million npcs in every game. That's where a guide comes in handy because you know who is actually important. Also one thing I hated about the old games was the lack of teleporting and dungeon maps. I'm so glad CS had them or I would've gone insane lol

[@6reps]

While I agree that other games had anime tropes, I believe the reason Cold Steel was more prevalent was because of the large roster and the free time we spent exaggerated it.

[@gigatwin5298]

My only real criticism of the cold steel games (I've only played CS1) is the choose your own love interest part of the game. One of the more interesting plot points of Skys was the relationship between Estelle and Joshua i couldn't help but feel that there relationship was the rock of the story that drives it onward and at the end of the first game it leaves on such a cliff hanger that it feels almost criminal to not play part 2 right afterward. In Cold Steel I didn't get that vibe at all and with how you can romance most of the characters it leaves there own stories either completely tied to your own or feeling flat and dull when compared with Skys as CS characters feel like they aren't allowed to form there own relationships or even have there own story outside of the MC and it just feels like a waste as it comes across like there's supposed to be a Canon romance in the game but it's not dependent on or does anything with it which i can understand as its trying to have a different story and all but it comes across like Cold Steel just lacks that solid rock in its story beyond the simple "MC has dark past" storyline

[@Saru245]

"Trails is too anime" Me: I see that as an absolute win! I love tropes, especially ones I'm familiar with and I just go along for the ride so seeing them grow and have slight or even major changes is always fun. Also, I HATE school irl so you would think I would hate anything that had to do with school but anime and video games with school settings makes school so fun so I actually love it in there. It makes me sad that now the school setting is done with Trails, at least for now. I'm gonna miss it lol

[@alanlabuda7166]

I beg to differ, I grew to love Trails from Sky FC because it was so "not anime". It was very different, at the beginning I couldn't exactly pinpoint what it was. As I thought about it more, especially when I was craving the Crossbell experience again (my favorite two games in the series) whilst playing the first Cold Steel game. I was actually quite shattered from the inside with the disappointment I had playing the first game of Cold Steel. Eventually, I grew to embrace the game so much so as to not really despise it, the characters (SOME) grew on me. I finally knew what it was that was different from Cold Steel and the previous titles. The PRESENTATION, FANSERVICE and HIGH SCHOOL SETTING. My God, the fanservice, it was the first thing I figured out, from the moment where me taking the story serious was completely shattered, Rean and Alisa's accident. I despise fanservice. It simply ruins stories as the creators concentrate on giving the player their... lustful satisfaction rather than character development and in a game lacking it? What other point is there to fanservice, and along with the extreme anime tropes, anime tropes that became notorious for it's overuse to the point of cringe. The High School Setting ruined the dialogue, with the whole of class 7 having to give comment when they are together,. It creates awful dialogues were characters follow each other up which is unrealistic and annoying. I found myself lashing out at some character to just shut up in certain situations, either because I didn't like them or that their comment was unneeded and only there to even out the content for each character. Then in that one moment, I had this feeling, slight feeling that I was beginning to... like the whole class 7. As they talked after school around Rean's table. Then it happened. TWO MORE CHARACTER JOINED. (before stans will attack me, I like both of em.) This feeling I had was shattered and I put my hand over my eyes in disappointment. Two more characters, two more to add comments and speak and two more to hinder the other's of theirs. Character development was so weak in Cold Steel and when it tried it was cringe and the amount of characters played a huge part in it. Why I grew so attached to every playable character in Crossbell was because dialogue was realistic and mature and now that I mention it. Mature, Cold Steel has a PEGI 12 rating and the Crossbell games, or at least the first one has an 18 PEGI rating, proving my argument of maturity and I don't believe it was only because of DD cult. Then, the presentation. I seem to be in the minority on this one, I could be wrong though. The first thing that hit me was the character sprites. Where... Where were they? Where was that gorgeous artwork? It was erased as they thought the 3d models were enough to express the same emotions and be as gorgeous as draw artwork. Well it isn't, and it's the worst in the first two Cold Steel games. I honestly think that if art work was in Cold Steel, the game would have a much better feel to it. From character expression to awkward fight scenes. I will never forget how I could simply not take Laura and Fie's fight seriously in the first game. Animation was poor and it was unbelievably short. Compare that to the fight scenes in the sky arc, or Crossbell arc. Take for example Joshua and Loewe's fight scene in SC. Absolutely epic and awesome. The difference between the two is that that fight aged well and Laura and Fie's fight didn't. It aged poorly. When an older game does it better, you know something's wrong. I understand that they were entering, all games had to enter 3d eventually and may have looked good for it's time but that is not an excuse when a game almost 10 years older does it better. Last thing, the story was made for kids, I can't see it any other way, either it's simply that bad or it's for a much younger audience who doesn't care about politics, conflicting ideologies, NOT A BLACK AND WHITE STORY. The game tries to not be black and white in the most pathetic way I have ever seen. "No No, we are not joining the imperial army, we are only fighting the alliance as enemies and they are shown throughout the first two games to be Disney tier villains, evil for no reason only to be hated but yes we are neutral, we totally did not destabalise them and assuring the imperial army's win."

[@Miyakolover]

Aside from how stupid the complaint of "too anime" is stupid in itself...the fact that some people complain about the existence of tropes in general shows how little do people understand about storytelling. Whether or not something is well or badly written there will be tropes...the tropes existence in itself has nothing to do with the quality of the writing. That's like somebody complaining about a Hollywood movie being "Too Hollywood" with no regards to how the tropes are handled within a movie in itself....it's a stupid and unfair genralization.

[@unboundsky9999]

*SPOILERS FOR FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST* Me seeing the late game of Zero: “Wow, the devs really like Fullmetal Alchemist.” Me seeing the end of Chapter 4 in Azure: “Wow, the devs REALLY like Fullmetal Alchemist!” Like the suspiciously circular country being a giant giant summoning circle to gain the power of a god is pretty blatant. It’s really good in both cases, but man, it’s very similar.

[@Riftrender]

Couldn't get into the other ones but I love cold steel. Mostly due to graphics...I just can't play old games anymore.

[@TheRealMaruki]

What I like about trails is that they make heavily tropey characters, just to basically remove that. Think Alisa in CS1. She started off as the tropey "anime girl with crush on protag but hides it" or whatever (you understand, yes?), to a character who isn't just that, but has her own issues, her own concerns, and by the time of the end of CS1, she isn't the same character. Or with Rean, he is just a protag with all his speeches, the focal point of the group, but over time, we realize he's more than that. The Elise visit in CS1, the October war, and *especially* the end of CS3. This is the power of Falcom. I definitely worded this wrong, but you understand my point, yes?

[@MicksUp]

mandatory italian moment: the "Bacca" part of "Baccano" isn't pronounced like that of "Buccaneer", it's more like "Buh-kkaah", as the stress goes on the second syllable anyway, very interesting video, i've always thought the same, although i do understand why this sentiment exists to begin with

[@syn010110]

like, the liberl games were refreshingly restrained when it came to the horny content. cold steel is much more typical in that regard.

[@grandruby5343]

I’d say it’s really because The Cold Steel games, especially 1 and to a lesser extent 3, really let it’s anime inspired cliches to be on full display with the whole Highschool setting, and it’s Highschool cast. Anime started to gain traction by the time CS1 came around, and it’s kind of become mainstream to a degree over the last two years, and that might tire people out, which may make people look at the games more critically with all of its tropes. It also doesn’t help that, at least to me, that the CS franchise introduced the bonding system, which feels like the “worst” part of the games, as the harem troupe can only be so appealing, especially with how the characters can have so much depth and that system kinda takes it away.

[@Kaerlith]

It all comes down to that CS is just so much more blatant with its tropes than Sky or Zero/Ao. While the latter were a bit more subtle, CS went all out. School, romance, harem, mecha, OP protagonist, all personalities except yandere (I think), fake deaths, convenient powerups etc. It sometimes feels like a bit too much. Suspension of disbelief is a thing, and CS frequently manages to break that immersion. I legit cried when Estelle and Joshua were falling off the Ark, but when e.g. C. died, it felt too cheesy to me. CSIV managed to make me teary eyed during the first ending, then I wanted to smash my controller with the 2nd ending shenanigan. Also here's an obligatory "Class VII of Thors Military Academy".

[@tri1937]

it’s 100% because of the graphics. it’s a lot more noticeable when every character is a lot more expressive and with voice acting

[@luminous3558]

They are literally less expressive compared to the portraits of previous games and those also had voice acting. Coldsteel 1 and 2 also look worse than every other entry in the series because they are so deeply in the uncanny valley. Sky through Crossbell benefit from minimalist artstyle where you have to fill in many blanks with your imagination but they can animate the fights more freely because everything isn't really happening exactly how it looks on screen. Coldsteel 1 and 2 are on the inbetween of looking too much like a modern game to have that leniency but they also lose the ability to do over the top animation resulting in many straight up blackscreens with scene descriptions during events where previous games wouldve shown you what happened because it was simpler to make. 3 and 4 look decently polished but still don't animate well during action scenes at this point the trade off is worth it to me. Hajimari is when falcom starts getting good with animation and experiments with dynamic camera.

[@ChuongDang185]

The people who call anything too anime have a tendency to never point out that tropes and cliches exist in all mediums of entertainment, not just anything and that’s not a bad thing. However when they talk about anime tropes it’s always with a negative connotation which is just objectively wrong. A trope or cliche is never bad on its own, it’s always about how it’s executed within the story.

[@BlackyRay_Patrick]

Still I think we can admit that anime tropes are really extreme characters which I know only from 'reality TV shows' in normal movies I tend not to see so many over edgy characters. But I have to say this is changing more and more since western productions are trying to have more variety in there characters maybe also as reaction to lbtqa+ movement.

[@RetroNerdyGamer]

I thought CS was "too anime" and I think what REALLY set me with that was the change in the intro between Sky 1 and CS1. This was back when I didnt know Sky SC was a thing because thus series has a crazy history on western shores and Crossbell duology was nowhere to be found. Theres also the school setting n all that too. I still stand that I find soem tropes in the Trails series hella annoying but its still the best written series Ive seen in a JRPG in a while so generally I can overlook em. Either way I think going from Sky 1 to CS1 is a major contributor as to why this "too anime" viewpoint is a thing.

[@lenleon3699]

And for anyone who would claim Sky SC is not.... well, it is. In fact SKy SC began the whole super weapons and magical artifacts influencing history deal that many blamed on solely Cold Steel 4 (the Curse of Erebonia is just an upgraded version of the Utopia of the Liberl Ark storyline... aka the entire reason we had to stop the bad guys in Sky SC).

[@silenceoftheyams7647]

Trails has always been "anime" and it has also always been very very horny.

[@spironan]

I want to believe anime back in the days and far and few between in comparison to what we have now, and the excessive amount of companies just making use of the typical troupe creating much more shovelware anime.. This mindset kinda seeps into when you first play Cs games when exposed long enough to give you that initial impression

[@mystery8820]

You know what else could be a good semi-rant, that in lore most of our rivals in the endgame of CS4 (except for a few) are pulling their punches. If you are committed to becoming my opponent during the arc, at least grow a spine (although for some, it makes sense why they can’t commit to the cause effectively).

[@OneManCast]

Fam, I love this. I enjoy Cold Steel and I don't think Cold Steel would work as well without the anime school tropes. Its how we got invested in the characters. Like, my entire perception of every character in the game would be fundamentally different without it. I would not like certain characters w/o the "too anime" facets. I would not be able to tolerate Alisa's flip-flopping or Laura's anti-social tendencies etc. without the anime presentation. I appreciate your video on this topic.

[@reanschwarzer6749]

There is an image of the anime

[@absoul112]

it's weird how some series that have been "anime" since the beginning (or early on) get this criticism only with the later games.

[@PantsaBear]

I think when people say "too anime", thats just a not-well-articulated way to say what they actually mean: Cold Steel's harem stuff and just the general stuff it takes from other recent popular anime games like Persona. I do think it turns a lot of it on it's head pretty well, namely the "student" trope in Cold Steel 1 and 3, but way too many of the bonding events have constant prompts for romance where it just doesn't make sense. The fact you can have romantic moments with Sara, Fie, Emma, Millium, Claire, Altina, Juna, and Id argue even Musse is just really really out-of-place to take the rest of the story seriously (I like the Sara scenes in CS3 and CS4 though mostly until they turn it into a lover thing, rather than just having immense mutual respect and just growing close as master and student). It's there only for fan-service to sell copies to ppl who only play games with these kinds of elements, and its just really unfortunate something so mature and well thought-out like Trails needs to do this to keep sales numbers up. I know I'm hardly unique for bringing that complaint up, but it it really is just hard to ignore considering youre reminded of this stuff once per chapter for every CS game, especially when things get really real in CS2 and CS4. Can definitely see some people just not finishing a certain one of these games because of it, especially if they havent played Sky or Crossbell (the latter does have some smaller harem stuff, but I at least think its mostly easy to ignore). Its a problem that "non-anime" games just dont face

[@brunokingz]

It kinda is... But I don't think that's a problem

[@dunkbuscusgaming7016]

TOOO ANIME!!! BITE YOUR TOUNGE! THERE'S NO SUCH THING!!! Wasn't shouting at you Lady but to whoever spread such lies! (Dramatically faints)