Lagoon retrospective: Bad ending | Super NES Works

Super NES Works 1991 limps weakly over the finish line with the third dud in a row. Lagoon makes a pitiful capstone for an otherwise strong opening period for Nintendo's 16-bit beast, a hobbled conversion of a fairly respectable PC game that suffers horribly from a single ill-considered new design choice. Oh well! At least we have 1992 to look forward to...

[@SNESdrunk]

Despite the obvious combat flaw that you pointed out, the SNES port Lagoon still manages to have a cult legion of fans for whatever reason. It baffles me

[@JeremyParish]

There's a chunk of people on the internet who think Hitler was pretty great, too. I dunno, man. Internet.

[@renewagain6956]

Well that escalated quickly.

[@JeremyParish]

So has the public threat posed by white supremacy. It's Godwin's world now, we're just living in it.

[@SNESdrunk]

@@JeremyParish You're getting the "Hitler was right" commenters on your channel too? Just leave them in "Held For Review" to rot.

[@tommylakindasorta3068]

I know that I really enjoyed Lagoon in 1992 when I played it, I loved the music, and I have great memories of the game. It looks frustrating as hell in Jeremy's video, so maybe there's stuff I'm not remembering. I do know that I beat the game. There are lots of other games I didn't beat because they were too hard. It's just hard to reconcile what I remember with what I'm seeing here.

[@JanusKastin]

Tons of memories with this one. Many Friday afternoons, this was the only game left on the rental store shelf. As a 10-year-old I knew it sucked immediately, yet because of the sunk-costs falicy, I MADE myself like it. I even still have an original copy. Now it's a game better remembered than revisited. Especially the music.

[@vinesauce]

I rented this game a lot when I was really young and I liked it because it was kinda like Zelda. I thought I was just shit at it until I played it again years later and realized it had a ton of problems. Not the worst game ever, but rough.

[@JeremyParish]

I really wish I liked this game more than I do.

[@CarozQH]

This is one of those games that are really interesting to watch the speedrun of

[@christopherdemichiei]

A problem this shares w/ Ys is how close you have to get to the screen's edge before the camera starts following you. You can't see anything ahead of you!

[@Kevinsyel]

Hey Jeremy, I've beaten Lagoon a few times and Love it (for nostalgia reasons, obviously) and you hit the problems with the game right on the nose. Boss fights CAN be managed a little easier once you get combat rings, but they drain your MP startlingly fast during boss fights. The Third boss Eardon is by far the second most frustrating boss in the game, as by the time you're passed him, your gear will be good enough to really damage bosses, and your dodge skill will improve. There is another boss though, Thimale, that's essentially a giant rolling snowball rolling up and down it's screen, and you have to destroy 8 pedestals to the side of it before exposing the weak core of the ball... That fight is TERRIBLE with the mechanics handed. Not to mention the Ice Palace he's in requires you to use a "Fur Mantle" to keep from taking constant Cold damage. Thankfully the boss room does not have cold damage, but switching to your healing item before walking in the door always leaves you with slight damage to start the fight with... Essentially, after you beat Eardon, you find a village a hobbits who are getting sick by drinking the cursed water, and you have to find a mint leaf to purify their water. You also get a new staff from their church. You have to go to a castle near the Hobbit village called Duma, and you get some spike armor and a new shield, and have to face Duma after healing the waters in order to progress. There's a teleporter that takes you to a Gnome village outside a frozen palace where you need to defeat Thimale to progress toward Castle Lagoon. Passed the frozen palace is a mountain range where you meet up with your mentor Matthias where you learn that Thor is your brother, and while you're the Child of Light, he's the Child of Darkness. Ella, who kidnapped Felicia in the cutscene before the Eardon fight, is there too, and you have to defeat this sorceress. By this time you get the water crystal and thunder crystal, getting you all the spell elements... some cool affects can happen, but spells are mostly rendered useless by this point. Anyways, Matthias with his last breath launches Nasir to the clouds so that he can jump across them to land at Lagoon castle. You will DIE here a LOT, as each jump is perilous and the edge programming of the clouds doesn't make sense. On top of that, the game expects you to understand that you have to jump off the clouds to Lagoon castle once you make it to it. Cue Lagoon castle, a deep perplexing maze where you need to find the hidden Moon Terrace to use your moonstone from the caves to get the moon blade, and find some statue than you then need to use on a false mirror. I'm not kidding, in that this is a mind numbing maze of samey tiles and no sense of real direction. I've been lost for days at this point without a map. Anyways, you rescue Felicia, Queen of Lagoon, but she tells you Zerah, the main enemy, has taken Thor to a "secret place" in order to transform him into a world threatening monster. So you continue through the castle, beat another henchman of Zerah, and find a teleporter to the "Secret Place" which is just a dark cave, with the same music as the first cave... yay... Navigating through here, you get to the final boss GAUNTLET. That's right, you get to kill a bunch of bosses without healing. First is a Green Demon trapped in an egg, which you have to avoid its lasers to strike it's eyes as they open. Then they demon comes out, flies about, and uses a long whip-arm to strike you. Beat it? good, now Zerah turns into a fire breathing demon, and shoots tons of fireballs as you make your way up to him to do any sort of damage... fine. Now you have to fight Thor with a barrier around him. He teleports, so good luck getting in to hit him, and not take damage from his barrier. After beating Thor, he turns into a giant 4 winged bird, and you have to strike the pendant it's holding in it's claws, while avoiding all the feather projectiles! You did it! you beat Thor! you leave his room triumphant only to find that the Green demon in the previous room is back, as a Red Demon! and stronger and faster. Kill him to win the game. Hope you got the Curing Ring which allows you to heal yourself slowly in boss rooms... So yeah, it's still broken, doesn't get much better, has a terrible jumping sequence (worse than the caves entrance) and an endgame boss gauntlet of 5 forms, back to back. Hope this helps you finish your opinion of a game I (somehow) still love.

[@twentytwotoone]

I really liked this! I'm also making use of the phrase, "this cooks."

[@pabulum28]

The only other place I've heard the use of "cooks" like that was the trailer for the first Naked Gun film from the 1980s; I just saw the trailer again and it comes up a few seconds after the 1:30 mark there

[@NeoKad99]

Small correction: Falcom actually decided to bring an attack button into the series starting with the divisive Ys V on the Super Famicom!

[@Swordblade2k]

If, for some reason, you feel the need to see this game's completion, I recommend finding PJDiCesare's run from AGDQ 2016. Many of the same points regarding the gameplay are addressed, as well as the slapdash plot and translation issues (I'm not sure if Jeremy brought attention to it, but you can see him buy a sword in the Armor Shop. The Weapon Shop in the same town only sells items. An early NPC says "Here, put these on!"... then gives you gold.)

[@jasongarrett768]

I trudged through all the way to the end as a kid who really wanted a Zelda game the system. I honestly can’t remember if the ending was satisfying but the journey certainly wasn’t. The soundtrack really was the high point though. I got so much more enjoyment out of the intro theme than the actual game. I think the butterknife combat turned me off of bump-based combat entirely. Odd since I did enjoy Y’s III, though that did break from that series’ tradition with the shift to sidescrolling. (Soul Blazer is indeed great and I wish the Actraiser family of games could get a proper compilation)

[@justsignmeup911]

I never knew about the computer version. That's great info.

[@thomashampton600]

Thank god I discovered your channel. I am miserable and stuck quarantined with this Coronavirus, which has been kicking my ass. Being able to watch all these videos makes the time go much faster. Your videos are very well done, and extremely informative. God bless and keep the content coming.

[@JeremyParish]

Please feel better soon!

[@Larry]

Looking forward to seeing you cover Pit-Fighter :D

[@JeremyParish]

What the... oh no. Super NES Works 1992 is CANCELED

[@Larry]

@@JeremyParish True story, when the SNES first came out here, Nintendo only had F-Zero and Super Tennis available for months, so we started importing games from the US, a friend of mine decided to import Pit-Fighter thinking the SNES version would be arcade perfect, ended up forking out £100 for it, about $240 in today's money. So was mortified he wasted all that money on it :D Then again, I imported Super Wrestlemania, and sawed the cartridge up thinking it just needed to fit in order to be able to be played :S

[@Sjohnson1217]

@@JeremyParish oh no..!! I just recently discovered these treasures. Any chance it will come back?

[@BradIsLove]

I just recently replayed Ys 1 and watching this busted combat made me feel a weird sort of anxiety. It's like watching somebody try to thread a needle but they keep missing.

[@JeremyParish]

Haha, good description. It's so bungled.

[@METR0lD]

Good bye for now SNES Works. How I loved thee.

[@RetroCabeza]

Next YEAR??

[@apoplexiamusic]

Retro Cabeza 😭

[@MrJWTH]

Retro Cabeza It’s likely that he will finish VB Works and NES Works 1987 first.

[@duffman18]

I think he meant "next year" as 1991 snes is ending and 1992 will begin

[@apoplexiamusic]

duffman18 i hope so :)

[@Rando1975]

@@duffman18 he mentions in the description that at least we have 1992 to look forward to, so sounds like you are right.

[@MiguelPaulettePerez-bj8ml]

"The music in this game cooks" I enjoy when you get excited JP.

[@jonothanthrace1530]

At about 4 minutes, the BGM plays what sound suspiciously like the organ riff from Spencer Davis Group's (and later Chicago's) "I'm A Man" and now all I can imagine is an ARPG starring Steve Winwood.

[@jonothanthrace1530]

Also, I had thought the hero was named after Nasir Gebelli, but if he is it's in a roundabout way, 'cause that guy's name is ナーシャ in Japanese, whereas Lagoon's protagonist is spelled ナセル (which is apparently the Japanese rendering of Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser's last name).

[@JeremyParish]

Yeah, I was going to comment on the Nasir connection, but once I looked into it I realized it wasn't a deliberate reference. Probably just as well, it would have been practically an act of slander given how this port turned out.

[@leegoldsmith2028]

The lagoon music rips a melody from rhcp’s stone cold bush

[@analogmoz]

If I took a drink for every reference to _Tower of Druaga,_ I would be so, so dead.

[@JeremyParish]

All according to keikaku

[@kacamac]

I vaguely remember renting this as a kid, one of my first snes rentals. I always wondered why I could barely remember it though, guess I see why now.

[@evenmorebetter]

"Hey, I wonder what an RPG is going to be like on this brand new SNES game system" *1 rental later* "Hey, I wonder what any other RPG than this is going to be like on this brand new SNES game system"

[@barny15]

I realize that Lagoon isn't a good game (at least the SF version isn't; the X68000 version is much better), but... I still enjoy it. Loved it as a kid and still enjoy playing it now. P.S. - Ys VI wasn't the first Ys game to embrace "traditional" combat; Ys III and Ys V both had it as well.

[@tommylakindasorta3068]

Even Ys Book II had a magic projectile system so you didn't strictly have to bump the enemies. The melee was strictly bump-and-run, though.

[@daviddalrymple2284]

This game always piqued my curiosity when I saw screenshots in Nintendo Power's SNES Game Atlas. I've often considered picking it up when I see it, but I never bothered. I'm glad to see I wasn't missing much.

[@PSOCecil]

I first played this via emulation back when I first discovered it, like 20+ years ago. That butterknife-esque sword was enough to have me quitting after my first death. What a terrible game.

[@Unquestionable]

Mirrors almost my exact thoughts as a confused 7 year old whose neighbor rented the game at launch. All we wanted was a new Zelda and instead were met with frustration and tears. At least when Zelda did properly emerge we quickly forgot about Lagoon.

[@MaidenHell1977]

another fantastic review. love your work.

[@THEmuteKi]

There was a speedrun of this at GDQ in 2016. They effectively agreed with your assessment, right down to the dying at any moment complaint

[@Odysseyknight]

Minor correction, but the usually forgotten Ys 5 was the first overhead Ys game to do away with the bump combat, not Ys 6.

[@MAYOFORCE]

I didn't like bump combat at first, but after spending some time to get good at it in Ys I actually started to enjoy it a lot as an alternative to regular action RPG mechanics. Sounds like Lagoon would've been a much better game if they simply didn't change it from the home computer version.

[@gabrieleriva651]

Remember people, around December 1991, PAL players finally got Super Mario Bros 3 on Nes! Thank you Nintendo, for treating us like little shits!

[@otakubullfrog1665]

I very much enjoyed this for what it was when it came out. I found that great soundtracks and crisp visuals elevated games with otherwise questionable design decisions in the early SNES days more than they probably should have and I was still accustomed to the insane and cheap difficulty that so many titles offered in the NES era. It also helps that I wasn't aware that this game was a PC down-conversion until just now.

[@1080ike]

I honestly don't think Lagoon is that bad. It's not a masterpiece, but I have a soft spot for it. It's a perfectly okay Ys clone that has a more picky combat system. Just charging into enemies blindly will just get you killed. First, the sword is definitely too short, but swinging it vertically gives you a better idea of where it is versus horizontally; it's much easier to do combat on the X axis than the Y. Second, you have a shield that blocks enemies and enemy attacks when you're facing them and not swinging your sword; use it as part of combat instead of charging in. Third, you have magic spells that come in handy when you're facing stronger/plentiful foes. Fourth, you level up extremely quickly, so if you're having trouble you can grind for a few minutes and you should be just fine. Finally, as you mentioned, your health regenerates (like Ys) when you stand still. My only serious issue with the game is with the boss fights, where your magic is finite and you have no more health regeneration. These I can 100% understand being called unfair.

[@aeschafer1]

I can't help but notice that both this and Drakkhen had awesome soundtracks, and in a very similar way. Something about x68000 conversions maybe that brought absolutely incredible basslines to their music?

[@MrKevown]

One of my favorite soundtracks. Never played the game..

[@cowardlylion42]

Given that I never played Ys until IOS a few years ago, I never had a problem with the combat in this game although it required some time to adapt to the toothpick combat. You approached this game from a bump-to-hit perspective when what the game’s combat calls for is patience. It is much easier to avoid most damage if you can line up hits and wait for the enemies to walk into your toothpick rather than recklessly throwing yourself at them. I’ve beaten this two or three times and recall a few times when I had to do a bit of mindless grinding: elf valley, dwarf desert, and the easiest: Siegfried basement. It’s REALLY quick/easy to grind there - no more than a couple minutes per level. A level or two makes a huge difference when fighting some of the tougher bosses/areas. What frustrated me when playing were the precision jumps that had to be made, especially on the route to the fire cave and upstairs Philips castle.

[@bluespaceman7937]

Still, it seems the original version of the game didn't require such patience. Only the SNES port.

[@signaltome]

Sigh, I was a bit unfortunate in my SNES days. When I got the system it was bundled with All Stars, which was fine but it was the version WITHOUT Mario World. And while I also got Street Fighter 2 it was only so long I could finish them agai and again before it got a bit repetitive. We did NOT have a lot of cash and I was maybe not quite as knowledgeable about games as I am now so my new games over a year or two probably came from the bargain bins and included some sort of first person tank game and, as you might gather from this context, instead of Link to the Past, I got Lagoon. I have to agree with Jeremy that the game... sucks? I only got past the first boss one time as I recall, but I sort of continued playing it. Well, what else was I going to do? ;-) Mostly for the music to be fair because the music is awesome! :-D The first town music is my favorite because, as I said I seldom got past the first dungeon but I have listen to the full soundtrack later and most of it is great. I am glad that it is not just me that had a hard time with this game. I mean, when I GOT my hand on Link to the Past I did beat it after a few tries. By then I was a 3D Zelda fanboy though, by first REAL hands on experience with Zelda was OoT. Oh well. I sort of want to track down the original Lagoon now, as I understood it it was a far superior version? Time to put on the soundtrack again I guess.

[@74Vidgamer]

Back when this game first came out I thought it was Ok for the time but it definitely has not aged well.

[@rodneylives]

I know about so many games in part because our family often rented them back in the day, but I never got to try this one.

[@famuel2604]

I recall the Ys ports made subtle changes that completely changed the games but these tended to make them easier. (e.g combining the games gives a higher level cap, or diagonal movement makes combat a cinch)

[@GamerGoingGrey]

Next year? So now I gotta wait until 2020 for both more Game Boy and SNES? Unless you mean next SNES year

[@JeremyParish]

The rest of 2019 is all about Virtual Boy and NES, friend.

[@Ralgondo]

I used to play this game when I was like 6, and after replaying it, it blew my mind that my young self was able to beat it lol, its just so frustrating

[@boscopit]

I dug this game when it came out. Used to rent it all the time.

[@williammcguire130]

Rare historical error here as it was YS V that ditched bump combat, not VI. Also literally every 8 and 16 bit RPG that got an American release is going to have some defenders because the genre was so rare in those days and if this is the one you got for some kind of Christmas/Birthday you sort of had to force yourself to love it by sheer force of will.

[@josephrowley6061]

Young me was absolutely haunted by this game. I still remember the soul crushing disappointment of upgrading from the short sword to the silver one, assuming that, by god, it would get longer. It does not. You're right about the music as it "slams" as they say, but I will add the haunting nature of some tunes, combined with the cruel difficulty sent young me into a tailspin of depression. I sincerely remember being absolutely and completely sad when i played this "gem" You forgot to add that healing items are not purchasable, so if you're unskilled like 10 year old me, you can end up stuck at later bosses with no way to progress. I think the best way to sum up this game is "un-fun" as its the absolute antithesis of enjoyment and happiness. I do think its a tie between this and 7th Saga for botched game experiences though.

[@pentelegomenon1175]

The NES game Ironsword borrowed Hydlide style combat, and also gives you a sword attack, but this only serves to temporarily enact your offensive stance. Unfortunately this means that Ironsword is often falsely assumed to have poor hit detection, since players who try to hack 'n' slash their way through the game will quickly lose all of their health, so maybe it was the right call for Lagoon not to do that.

[@MrMegaManFan]

As much as I love your videos Jeremy, there's a frustrating honesty when you say "We won't come back to this system for another year." It's like hearing Nebula say "My father is many things - a liar is not one of them." I know you mean it and it's true but it's HARSH knowing that long wait to come with nothing ahead.

[@JeremyParish]

I'm... still going to be posting a retrospective video every single Wednesday. I've already got a month's worth queued up. You folks are acting like I've just said "I'm headed to Hawaii, see you in a year"

[@joshzumstien6289]

Got this from a bargain bin for $5 when I was a kid so got lots of nostalgic memories around it. Probably beat it halfa dozen times just cause it was one of the only games I owned. Still, even as a kid I knew there were much better RPGs out there 😆

[@waynersmall1]

When I was young Lagoon was too hard for me. Then in high school I went back and beat it. That’s been over a decade now but I do have good memories playing it. What I don’t understand is why people love Ys but hate this game. It seems like people make excuses for Ys bump combat but it’s impossible to get used to it in Lagoon. I think if bumping into enemies was a good mechanic it would still exist. I will admit Ys has much better cut scenes being on a CD-Rom. Most of all I like Lagoon’s atmosphere and character design. And probably because it reminded of Zelda haha. Love your channel

[@JeremyParish]

Having just played Ys, it's both faster and more forgiving. (At least on Turbo CD.)

[@waynersmall1]

Jeremy Parish what makes it more forgiving? It seems like it had a lot of the same things going on? Small hit box. No invincibility. I would say regenerating health in dungeons makes it a bit easier. I just have a hard time giving one a pass and not the other. I like Ys too but it has most of the same problems.

[@JeremyParish]

Lagoon requires incredibly precise hits. Ys is far more forgiving and has larger damage boxes for bad guys. It’s also easier to dart in, hit, and duck away safely. And because you’re moving so quickly, the pace is extremely fast, which means that you lose very little progress if you die. There’s no awful jumping, you don’t have to fuss with mana points. Ys just plays more smoothly. I have no horse in this race-I used to hate Ys. But I’ve come to appreciate how much better it handles this style of gameplay versus other similar games.

[@waynersmall1]

Jeremy Parish That’s true Ys is much faster and Lagoon you have to be more patient, which isn’t always fun . I just don’t remember Ys being any easier on my TurboDuo. I always am interested to see peoples opinions on it. I’m just surprised when people like Ys so much in comparison because they seem so similar. It’s not all bad though it’s easy to find a copy for $10 because of its reputation. And at least it’s not deadly towers 😉

[@MaidenHell1977]

Its been a very very long time since I last watched Evangelion, about 20 years really, hahaha. I always knew that fanfare sounded familiar to me and now that Im rewatching it on the ol' Netflix I had to comment, bravo sir. :)

[@TheJadeFist]

You can jump to dodge projectile attacks, and if you're facing the smaller enemies your shield will block it. With that knowledge the game is significantly easier. Many of the deaths you showed were making the mistake of trying to brute force through an enemy while on bad facing, and that's just going to chain damage/knock back you to death.

[@JeremyParish]

I tried using jumps to evade early on; the physics are so floaty and nebulous they just added to the frustration.

[@steevlan]

I remember renting this one and beating it, but I honestly can't remember a single detail about the story and I have no memories of the bosses shown in the video. If I actually did beat it, no doubt I was far more patient with games than I am now. I think even back then I thought the game looked similar to Ys (I had a friend with a Turbografx-CD). Neat to learn about the X68000 version!

[@dekky3908]

I beat Lagoon as a kid, I was very patient back then.

[@zackschilling4376]

Lagoon isnt a bad game, its a flawed game. A friend had got it for me for my birthday back in the day which was really cool so I kinda have a soft spot for it

[@myfakename5582]

Lol wow I really enjoyed lagoon as a kid. Didn't realise I was so alone

[@CVRJM]

I remember picking this up at a Toys R Us for £14.99 back in 1994 and given that UK SNES owners didn't receive the great range of RPG's compared to the US and Japan (there were only 10 available including LttP) we had to take what was given to us in regards to this genre. And yes... I even thought it was crap back then and what's worse is that not being familiar with the "Y's" style of the character design at the time, I thought that the game had this look akin to what you see in British TV stop motion animated shows such as Postman Pat, Trumpton and Camberwick Green. 😁

[@joezawinulreviewsandreacti2509]

I beat this as a kid and liked it

[@ebskappacman565]

I remember completing this as a kid so replayed it recently and yeah the mechanics are ass but nostalgia got me through somehow.

[@jsands7]

Hmm. Hard to review a game that you’ve only played half of. I beat Lagoon as a 10 year old, it can’t possibly be THAT hard. But maybe I remember it with rose colored glasses. I’ll tell you what it DOES get right - the soundtrack. Great stuff in there. I’ve been humming some of those tunes for 20 years.

[@JeremyParish]

Hmm. Good thing this isn't a review.

[@jsands7]

Jeremy Parish you don’t have to assign a final score or value to something for it to be a review. You’re reviewing these games, whether you set out to do that or not. When you discuss origin, playability, sound design, graphics, and you persuade people to try or not try a game - you have reviewed it.

[@bjornh1527]

Personally I think Lagoon is underrated. It’s not that much different from an Y’s game, the combat just requires timing. Could be better of course, but the game isn’t that hard anyway. Not a great game, but I enjoy it more than Soul Blazer and a bunch of other action RPG:S. I think it’s the music that pulls me in, it is indeed amazing.

[@DragonRaiderX9]

I thought Ys let you swing your sword as of Ys V. Or was that a more radical departure from the series than VI was? I'm asking, I've only played up to V. Anyway, great video as always. I enjoy learning about these games I've never played.

[@angelriverasantana7755]

I really hope Lagoon gets the Redux hack treatment and it gets bump combat brought back

[@FancyGeeks]

Lagoon is no masterpiece but this was a tad harsh.

[@JeremyParish]

Saying Lagoon is no masterpiece ranks up there with saying "terminal cancer is no Christmas morning" in terms of understatements.

[@FancyGeeks]

@@JeremyParish You know what, dude? I loaded Lagoon in an emulator over the last 45 minutes or so... I gotta eat some crow here. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug but this game is unplayable. I shall not doubt you again, sir.

[@JeremyParish]

I hear you. I went into this episode totally open-minded. I rented Lagoon back in the day and didn't really enjoy it, but I thought I would dig it more now that I have a richer understanding of the genre and its history. But no, all 27 years of maturation and growth have given me is a deeper comprehension of what a shambles this port is.

[@FancyGeeks]

@@JeremyParish I think the music colored my memory to a large extent. I honestly, wasn't aware that it was butchered port until your video but it makes a lot sense.

[@JeremyParish]

Why does music this good have to be trapped in a game this... uh, not-good?

[@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775]

With all the snes hacks out there I wonder if Lagoon could be hacked just to give a slightly more range to the sword to counter its deep flaw? The music to Lagoon though is awesome.

[@jorymil]

Whenever I see that boss, I just lose it. It's like: "Did you deliberately make it look like a turd? If not, how could you possibly overlook it?” You have these red eyes in the middle of it, and this little hero trying to stab it.... Then it sticks its tongue out and starts shooting fireballs--it's like poor Nasir had a bad dream after eating too much hot sauce. Oh, those evil developers 😂

[@mrsensible99]

Kemco would later localize another of ZOOM's X68000 titles for the SNES: Phalanx (a.k.a. the Old-Banjo-Guy-On-the-Box shooter), which also features a kick-ass soundtrack. Would love to know who composed these.

[@yellowmunchie9823]

You should be able to find scans of the manuals online. They may contain a credits page maybe

[@mrsensible99]

@@yellowmunchie9823 Couldn't find credits for the SNES version of Lagoon. Mobygames says the SNES version of Phalanx was composed by "S. Yamaguchi" and he's only credited for composing music on one other game, X-Zone. There's definitely a similar composition style between these games, so I guess it's possible SNES Lagoon was the same guy.

[@happydeathman]

Ha! When I was going back to play old SNES RPGs I'd missed back in the days, I played this. Mostly. Even abusing the hell out of save states, I was never able to beat the last boss. I mean, not that I was having much fun even before then, but my ultimate failure did add a certain amount of insult to injury.

[@gaidenxl]

I rented this game back in the day. I remember beating it in a few hours. I was looking for a similar experience as in Zelda 3, but it was an average game nonetheless...

[@TectonicImprov]

I remember playing this game on an emulator because the name seemed cool, only to be incredibly disappointed. That butter knife sword, man. How did they think that was ok?

[@AncientMysteriesAndInnovations]

I love this game

[@DantePlaysOldGames]

Surprised to see this game pop up next on your series, as Wikipedia’s “List of SNES Games” page has it releasing in North America in Feb 1992. Not trying to suggest you’re wrong, just saying I was surprised. As someone who is peculiarly interested in knowing the order in which vintage games were released, I wish we had more definitive knowledge of these things.

[@JeremyParish]

I use a variety of sources for dates, including Wikipedia, GameFAQs, Nintendo's official lists (which are sadly no longer online), Mobygames, and a few other resources. What I come up with is probably not 100% accurate, but unfortunately pinpoint U.S. release dates weren't really the standard until the mid-'90s, after Mortal Monday and Sonic Tuesday.

[@MrJWTH]

Dante The Wikipedia article for the game lists Dec. 1991 though so while the list entry may be accurate it could also be an error or sneaky vandalism.

[@DantePlaysOldGames]

Mr. JH That is odd. I also found the official list of SNES games Jeremy mentioned in his reply on Archive.org, and it says Dec 1991, so I guess that’s probably more accurate than the Wikipedia list, which isn’t sourced.

[@JeremyParish]

Admittedly, Nintendo's own official dates aren't always accurate. They list Soccer for NES as a 1987 game when it was almost definitely available at the NES launch in 1985. They completely erased the existence of the official licensed releases of Tengen's first three NES games. They cite a few games as December releases when I remember buying those games at sales on Black Friday mornings. U.S. 8- and 16-bit release dates are kind of a case of "well, close enough, I guess." So who really knows with Lagoon?

[@DantePlaysOldGames]

Jeremy Parish At the risk of weakly poking a dead horse with a short sword, I looked up some Nintendo Powers on archive.org, and as far as I can tell Lagoon is first mentioned in the Feb 1992 issue, but only on a list of “recent releases” so maybe that’s where the Wikipedia date comes from. But since magazines are prepared far in advance, and the date on the cover is usually when they come off the shelves, not when they’re shipped to stores, it really proves nothing and was a tremendous waste of my time. LOL Anyway, Lagoon is definitely a game that exists, it plays on SNES consoles, and was sold in stores at some point within the last 50 years, for better or worse. P.S. Thanks for making this good KZbin channel! I appreciate it.

[@diamondsmasher]

As a kid I found the best part of Lagoon was the ability to remove it from the SNES and put in any other game.

[@Ophidicus]

Love the music in this game when I was a kid, i only play this with game genie codes now because it is so ridiculous to play without with all the stupid enemies following you and hard bosses

[@LordChozo]

Hey Jeremy, hope you can clear up a question I have after watching this video, because while you covered the game really thoroughly, there was one thing I wasn't able to glean. So tell me: do you in fact like the SNES game Lagoon?

[@magus2342]

Sad to hear the "next year" comment, but I'll live. Played this on a rental, got a decent ways in, got stuck because I was lacking some item and couldn't be bothered to go find it or restart.

[@NiGHTSnoob]

Speaking of "Playing Zelda first and hating Ys because of it", I feel like a freak whenever I talk to people my age about such games. My first Zelda game was Ocarina of Time as I was merely 7 when it came out, but I absolutely adore the first Zelda and Ys, and prefer them to OoT. I just the think the original Ys is an unbelievably charming game, at least the Turbo CD and Windows 98 versions, and Koshiro's soundtrack is a delight.

[@sierrawhite5552]

I remember playing this back in the day and I could never get further then the 2nd boss. Even though I did find it frustrating I did enjoy the game, but also makes me wish some modder would look at this game and just adjust the hitbox of the sword some to make this a better game.

[@erika_fuzzbottom]

I watched SirRosser beat this game a while back. Be glad you didn't bother finishing it. The final battles are atrocious.

[@GameplayandTalk]

The best thing about this game is the fact that it's not D-Force.

[@CrimsonDX]

I immediate though this looked exactly like Ys when the video started. Shame this game looks like it plays so terribly because I really loved classic Ys, and I am also a huge fan of the top-down action rpg genre. Trials of Mana and Terranigma are two of my absolute favorite SNES games after all. Oh well, maybe I will try checking out the x68000 version some day. On a note for next ep, the SNES version of the Redmont town theme is one of my favorite things ever.

[@sneakyskunk1]

As I watched the brave little knight charge into battle brandishing his butterknife against the forces of evil, I had a sneaking suspicion Lagoon was not going to be much fun. Many hours later I realized I was only playing out of spite so I stopped. The soundtrack was good.

[@nicholasmiller8685]

i liked the game alot of memory's still own a physical copy of it.

[@MrJamesDiamond]

I'd love to see your take on Donkey Kong Country. :)

[@BeyondTheScanlines]

It's interesting they went down the route of adapting the combat. Maybe had they not bungled it up, it'd have been interesting. Thank heavens for a proper Y's, as well as everything which followed after A Link to the Past dropped ;)

[@JeremyParish]

I'm not sure if I really consider Ys III a "proper Ys"-though the modern remake goes a long way toward normalizing its design.

[@jasonblalock4429]

Yeah, I've never had the patience for the original version(s) of Ys III. It's just SO grindy, and so blatant about running the player into brick walls of difficulty that can *only* be overcome with grinding. Oath At Felghana, on the other hand, is awesome.

[@ovinophile]

I always wanted to play Lagoon as a kid - it looked like exactly the kind of game I loved. Guess I dodged a bullet though!

[@o_o_o_o_o-o_o_o_o_o]

I loved that kind of game too and I played it as a kid... and I liked it. But yeah even then it wasn't ever going to be my favorite. It works well enough in its way, but it's pretty severely flawed.

[@aaastroboy404]

I rented this game back in the day and somehow reached the final boss. I didn't find the road there all that difficult, but what I assume was the final battle proved to be impossible, the stationary creature didn't have any weak spots and like the rest of the bosses and there was no magic to try, only the pitiful sword. Had to give up at the end, ruining the experience of what I thought was a decent game.

[@tommylakindasorta3068]

I can see the validity of all your criticisms and I agree that the X68000 version is way better. But I still loved this game back in the day and I don't remember it being particularly difficult to beat. I'm not the most patient of gamers (I threw in the towel on Link's Adventure, for example) so it can't have been THAT hard or frustrating. Nowadays I'd probably rage quit, though.

[@7thangelad586]

I only played this one because I was desperate for another adventure game; it pales in comparison to Brain Lord but is still better than something like Brandish.

[@JeremyParish]

Heck no, Brandish is awesome.

[@bduddy55555]

I never realized Ys was enough of a franchise that other publishers would want to blatantly copy it.

[@grk70s]

the normal attak started with Ys 5 not 6

[@Koosemose]

Technically Ys 3 was the first to not have autoattack... though it's also a sidescroller rather than top-down so I could perhaps see one discounting it when talking about the gameplay in the original style.

[@JetstreamGW]

"When SNES Works returns next year..." Aw man, I was hoping you were gonna specify an estimate that hadn't arrived yet and I could anticipate the 1992 stuff. Did you decide not to continue SNES Works at all, or is it just taking longer than you intended, or did you just really fall into a Sega/NES hole like people used to fall into TV Tropes holes? :D

[@JeremyParish]

I will begin dabbling in Super NES again next year

[@JetstreamGW]

@@JeremyParish Yay!

[@defunctchannel942]

Returns next year? You mean when the next year picks up, or is the series on hiatus until 2020?

[@JeremyParish]

2020. Or after.

[@7thangelad586]

The music looped too quickly but wasn’t bad. I think it’s a salvageable game...yet it could have been so much better if the sword worked more-swordy...

[@kennethfelipe823]

I beat this game in 3 days when it first came out. It was not memorable but it wasn’t bad.

[@mikesimpson3207]

Excuse me, Ys really wanted to be Hydlide. Hydlide came first. Of course, Ys blows it out of the water in every single way, but you gotta give credit where credit is due.

[@dectilon]

I beat this on console back in the day. It... does not get better after the rock-boss. The music does I suppose. Some of the best themes are towards the end.

[@mymangodfrey]

I had Lagoon right when it came out. I was so excited, and ready to be content with whatever it turned out to be... and then it turned out to be so ugly and boring. PS: It sounds like you like Wanderers from Ys! I’ve always loved that one in spite of its quirks.

[@JeremyParish]

It's an imperfect game, but it sure beats the heck out of Lagoon!

[@TanookiSuit]

Would you say this game, if you enjoy, like or can even tolerate the swing mechanic is good otherwise and worth playing? I never minded Ys even playing it after Zelda 1-3+Links Awakening, so limited range doesn't bug me.

[@JeremyParish]

But who can tolerate the swing mechanic? That is the issue. The stubby sword range would be fine if it weren't paired with the need to swing it, but together they're a disaster.

[@timcantrell3313]

Honestly, I like this game...but totally understand those who don't like it.

[@silentfanatic]

Harmony of Dissonance had a bad soundtrack? Crikey.

[@2yoyoyo1Unplugged]

Wait, Harmony of Dissonance had a bad soundtrack? I’m serious, I never played it; was its soundtrack bad?