IS THIS THE MYTHICAL "END GAME"?: Lagom Option O P100 Exhaustive Review

I hope you enjoyed the video! Please let me know your thoughts below!
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[@micksquires]

Thanks for the shout out mate! Glad I could help make it slightly more enjoyable to use

[@80Entreri]

I have a P64, but wanted to comment on the final statement about customer service: I cannot praise them enough, option-o is hands down fantastic.

[@aoalr]

I’ve had my P100 for 8 months now and never had regrind issues. Where I live, winter is dry and summer is humid, so I RDT in winter and don’t need to in summer. 95% of the dose comes out during the actual grind phase and around 5% or less in the ramp up/knocker. Super pleased with the shots from mine as well as the overall usability!

[@aoalr]

Import tax was $50 on mine (should’ve been around $290) - happy with their service in this regard!

[@LanceHedrick]

That's awesome!

[@thewarden5]

Glad you made this review Lance!! Honestly, if I didn't own this grinder and I watched this, I would be hesitant to buy. But after owning this for 5 months now, I agree with @baaning that you may have gone a tad overboard with some of these quirks. If anyone is watching this video and hovering on the "Add to Cart" button, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. I will put my experience on the main points that Lance brought up. 1. Markings. I have had no issue with the ring moving, and I don't place two markers for when I set it to coarse. I find it a bit comical that looking on top of your grinder for a setting is somehow a critique. People put mirrors underneath their portafilter to see the flow, not ask to tilt the grouphead upside down so they can see it. 2. Tumbler cup. I don't use it for espresso, bc I agree it's a bit funky. I dose straight into my basket with a funnel. However, I do like it for dosing into my pour over devices. For stability, I've never knocked it off, but I see the concern. I wonder if the modified forks he has have a shorter top length? 3. Agree with @baaning, push the antipopcorn plate down a smidge and perfect. 4. Retention on Auto Mode. At a low rpm, the auto mode dumps out a lot. At a mid/high rpm, only a small amount comes out during purge. BUT if I want to grind at a low rpm, I tend to just use the manual mode and feed the bean slowly. Then to purge, I either ramp the speed manually or press the auto button later (having a timed auto would be sweet). Not supposed to use the knocker while grinding, per the instruction manual (read your manuals ppl). Coffee builds up in chute if you knock while it's grinding. Noticeably better shots when you don't have a lot coming out of the purge, so agree, may be regrinding. Overall, I love this grinder with the stock SSP 98mm HU burrs paired with my londinium. The shots are delicious and the workflow is incredible.

[@timatkins2228]

I second this succinct summation! I was dreading this review because i had seen a few comments from Lance (my most trusted of reviewers) that were none too kind prior to this and I only just spent all that cold hard cash buying one for myself. But honestly the review is fair, with relatively minor quibbles. Sounds obvious too, but another person's opinion no matter how informed shouldn't affect my enjoyment of something - I love my P100, the workflow is indeed incredible and the shots when paired with my DE1 are delicious. Beautiful as the EG1 is (and I had a really terrific shot from one at a local spot recently), the masculine portentousness of Weber along with some red flags about their support led me to the Lagom and I have no regrets at all, I think the P100 looks ace. Random observation, does the EG1 remind anyone else of the Space Jockey from the first Alien movie?

[@John-oz7vb]

Agree with you guys. I've done a lot of comparison EG1 ULF vs EK43LU vs P100 Brew burrs and to say that P100 with brew burrs produces "ok results" for filter is just disgraceful

[@isaacsloan5896]

My experience completely. I've never had an issue with the portafilter or tumbler falling off either.

[@deadshrub]

18 minutes in and this used to be my dream grinder, but not anymore... great stuff Lance.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Aw don't let it kill your dreams, it's likely a lemon he got. Talk with other owners if they have the same thing.

[@mathemat3939]

P01 or webwe eg1

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@mathemat3939 I think option-o is the better brand but depends what you're looking for in a grinder / burr profile really.

[@AlexanderLabial]

Hey Lance, love the brutal honesty and how well thought your discussion is! 👍🏽

[@AlphaEchoFoxtrot]

Just bought this guy last week. Thank you so much for this review!!

[@roberttennant572]

I have a P100 and a Weber Key. Obviously they are vastly different grinders but you nailed it with the tumbler issues. The Weber tumbler is way easier and a good bit larger. I'm often making 800ml of coffee which uses 50g of grounds. The Weber tumbler handles 50g with zero issues, the Option-0 requires me to be very careful or you will make a mess on your counter top. lol That being said I'm not having any issues grinding for espresso with the funnel on top of the portafilter. I know you *can* use the tumbler but I'm not sure *why* anyone would use the tumbler for espresso. Spot on review. The issues you point out are fair but other than the tumbler issue I've never even noticed them. It's an amazing grinder and I'm very happy with it. I do hope that Option-0 comes out with a deeper/larger tumbler for larger doses of coffee...but in the meantime I'll just have to be patient and careful when using it. Thanks for the review Lance.

[@mdfrick]

What a wild ride. So happy to finally see this review in the bag! A very fair and balanced take on this grinder. Thank you for all the work you put into it!

[@mdfrick]

Also as an owner of a P100, I believe everything said here, I just don't have anything similar to compare to in order to draw any conclusions about taste. I hope to some day! _looks at Zerno, imagines bigger burr_

[@SkinnyGeek_1010]

I've noticed that the retention/regrind is much lower if you grind at max RPM and use light RDT (the knocker usually doesn't push anything out)

[@mikeydoesit]

I know I listen on 1.5x and this hardware is out of my realm/budget, you smoked this video. All the comparisons and reference points based off of prior video feedback as definitely taken into account and conveyed seamlessly. Great job!

[@johnnyyacoub8772]

I've had my P100 for about 1.5 years, my ring doesn't move quite as much as yours. I've actually never moved it accidentally. I've seen other people complain about the portafilter hooks, however never had an issue with mine. My LM portafilter fits snuggly! I also don't have that new magic tumbler, it's just the old school cup lol. Respect your wisdom and nitpicks though lol. Still the best grinder I've ever owned.

[@vancitycanucks]

All these issues seem to be resolved....in the Lagom 01. Haha will await that review :)

[@jjorte2]

Would love to see a review on the P64 from Lance

[@skytown9000]

He doesn‘t like it. He‘s too much in love with the Zerno…

[@kevinhay2267]

Great review as usual Lance, thanks. The idea of sticking tape etc. on a 3k machine though is crazeeee - it should be perfect. Going to give my Niche an extra big hug tonight.

[@CNile-se9xw]

I like to keep things simple & enjoyable. I bought a DECENT DE-1 & got up to speed quickly with the help of the DECENT community, then later, upgraded our grinder to the P100 which I virtually set as per instructions & haven't had to touch it since. Our P100 is stock, the tolerances are precision firm & it's been a set & forget experience. The grind straight to the portafilter with the chute fitted & have zero mess except when I left it unattended, so I hold it in position. Problem gone. I don't see the issue with the clacker, it clears the last of the grounds, but then I don't check it with an endoscope or paranoid enough to check the burrs. When I asked my wife if she's happy with our set-up she doesn't keep me waiting. It's a resounding YES. 😉❤

[@LanceHedrick]

That's great! Glad you enjoy it!

[@CNile-se9xw]

@@LanceHedrick All good, mate.👍Another thing I asked my wife was if I told her that we were going to spend that kind of money, would she haven given the go ahead off the bat? She said sometime like, HELL NO, but I'm glad you did. 😉

[@aurelienbozet1684]

I have it for like 5 month and never had any of those issues 😅 There is no bean stock of anything, no regrinding, and less than .1g of retention with RDT. I have a Sanremo You and am able reproduce exactly the same recipe every time and I might have a shot that is like 2 secondes off once every like 20 shot even while switching from espresso to filter in between. I also got the Zerno and that’s the opposite, variation all the time, retention of 2 to 3 grams and also have exchanged coffee. The zerno does gives great cup, no doubt, but the workflow is a bit of a nightmare.

[@borjalpze]

Video about RPM should be next then!!!! Great video! I have a P64 at home and always wonder if I should have gone with the P100... not anymore, thanks to you I am very happy with my choice :)

[@baaning]

I've been using my P100 for about one year now. Basicly I agree on the quirks - can't comment on taste, since I have'nt had the chance to compare with EG1, EK43 etc. BUT - I also find you to hype them up a bit - to my experience high end grinders at at least as quirky as cheaper machines. My solutions has been as follows. 1. Markings: I find touchpoint, set zero on the ring and then place one of the included markings on the outer ring - it is now easy to reset zero, should I move the ring. I place another marking upside down 180 degrees opposite and use it for coarser grinds for drip etc. Drip is around 4-5 (=9-0) - easy-peasy... 2. Filterholder/cup falling of: 1'st thing I did when getting the machine was placing 4 small strips of clear friction tape on the upsides of the fork. Works fine. 3. Beans staying on the anti-popcorning plate: It is made of thin aluminum. Bend it a bit downwords and problem solved! 4. Retention hanging around the burrs untill fast cleaning process: There will only be retention grinding fine at low revs. If you grind really fine at higher speeds (6 or more) and poor the beans in continiously this will not be much of an issue. Grinding for filter I don't have the problem unless going reeally slow (lower than 3). So I might agree that the design can be perfected, but I find it easy to work around the quirks. Hence I find you a bit OCD'ed in your level of hitting on these. However, since I change between espresso and filter every day, I guess I stick with the HU-burrs and this grinder for some time to come😊

[@bgm1911]

2:20 min in, and Lance is pointing out several issues that should not exist on a grinder at this price range. This should be a no-compromise grinder.

[@davidrindt3131]

Lance, one Mahlkonig EK-43 review please, already!

[@doctorgears9358]

At 2+ grand I think it's much less acceptable to have these little issues. If I'm paying that kind of price I shouldn't have to make up for their lack of foresight or poor quality control.

[@JohnZ556]

Just call it a 3k grinder. It will be that price after tax+shipping. I got the new P64 and it doesn't have those issues, and I really do love the design(performance and look) of it.

[@Depiglio_]

Yeah this is just unacceptable at this price.

[@isaacsloan5896]

Most of these "issues" don't happen to almost everyone.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

He bought it used I believe? So probably had some issues.

[@remcovanhartevelt588]

meh, if you buy the newest most expensive thing on the market expect status not quality

[@crypto_joey8483]

Great video as always, Lance 👍🏻 I wonder if they’ll iron out some of these flaws in the new Lagom 01 as it kind of seems to be the P100 successor.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Dude yes! Absolutely fantastic deep dive man!!

[@seitenryu6844]

The most important reason expensive grinders use large burrs is because they're intended for commercial use. Larger burrs last longer and can grind faster, and more coffee before needing replacement. None of these things are very important for a home user.

[@Hammi4Real]

So I'm watching this, even though I am already a proud owner of a (2021) P64. No matter how many newer grinders come out regardless of burr sizes and additional bells and whistles, I think that what I got here already has maximised coffee extraction for me in accordance to my own needs and usage. I thought as much that it doesn't matter if my burrs are smaller than the bigger brother because it will still produce the same amount of consistent grind with minimal effort. I'm a home user who wants to get things done yes, but I'm not running a coffee shop where I need to hammer out enough coffee across a dozen tables. *And the P64 is still fast.* Interesting to compare the grinders though as it tickles my curiosity, and it makes for entertainment too when going through the pointers. Also never stop beatboxing, I want some bars too while slurping 'ccinos. Edit: Just gonna ask real quick if you by any chance happen to read this - do you know if there are any good 54mm portafilter holders for the P64? I'm still using BES870XL.

[@NoZenith]

Interesting. I'm exceedingly happy with my Niche Zero. I'll probably never develop your palate and finally realized I was chasing perfection without realizing how amazing EVERYTHING I was comparing was. Your video about the moving goalposts and there always being something else coming along at this point and if you keep waiting you'll never get anything, decided me. The most important thing was a quality output for a broad variety of Brew methods coupled with ease-of-use/workflow. Niche Zero is really the ultimate option. I am very curious and Lagom is a company I followed in case I ever want to upgrade or replace my setup. They have a very competitive price point for the obvious rave reviews and high-quality products they make so I'll keep coming back and trying to watch all of your videos. Thanks for all the straightforward input and answering questions I had in the past.

[@henryt9731]

This. Exactly this. I don’t believe there are that many people that has a developed enough pallet to taste a grinder all the while still chasing gears. Knowing this is surprising rare as a hobbyist.

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

I have a Niche Zero and a Niche Duo. There are much more consistent grind size with the Duo and less fines. The difference in extraction is visible in the crema and definitely tastable. Whether you prefer one over the other I would say is a matter of taste, but dialing in is a bit easier with the Duo.

[@StartCodonUST]

Whoa it's the HIBI P100 fork!!! HIBI makes awesome custom mechanical keyboard stuff.

[@jauntus1]

I think the instructions say to not use the knocker before the grinder stops (i.e. the auto spin finished or you manually push the other button). Like you said, its very, very fast. Wait like 3-5 more seconds (still crazy fast), then use the knocker and you won't catch grounds in the knocker system.

[@LanceHedrick]

Correct. I know about the knocker warning. I didn't do that when tasting and still had the issue.

[@elitebicycleracers]

Lance, I'm 1/3 thru the video and really enjoying it. Your production level keeps going up for these videos. Just a little hiccup to note at the beginning, the audio track is at a level I couldn't tell what I was hearing and thought it was coming from outside or was some accidental mic feedback. I realized once it was once the audio level came up during a segue after the intro and it sounded good. On the topic of the P100, I appreciate having this info because I love my P64 and I like the reassurance that I'm not necessarily making a big compromise just by not going bigger.

[@Reiberle]

I need a Lance review of the EK43!

[@taylorwhite3636]

FYI, OO advises not using knocker while its running - "The flicker-chute is intended to be used only after the majority of the grind has been dispensed - DO NOT operate it while the grind is still being dispensed."

[@LanceHedrick]

Yes. I'm aware. Doesn't change much. The slight knock could conceivably affect alignment but I can promise that never happened during testing haha. I always let it finish on its own at each rpm.

[@zZDUmmB4Zz]

Soon review from the lagom01?😍 need to decide between the eg1.. :-(

[@jamescarter5657]

Wow, I don't understand where all this option-o hate is coming from. I have both a P100 with brew burrs and an EK43 stock with low uniformity burrs and I must say that the statements in the video about the differences in the cup EK vs P100 look way exaggerated. To make such strong claims, one should first communicate how the comparative tasting was conducted exactly, especially with the brew burrs ek vs p100, do you have more sets of them? Are they exactly the same? As the brew burrs evolved over the years. Was this a blind cupping? Were there more people involved? From my experience the p100 vs ek results have been very similar and I am not even sure I would be able to tell the difference in blind tasting each time, I've never had a chance to do a proper side by side comparison with both grinders perfectly aligned, as I don't have 2 identical brew burr sets. Not sure there was something wrong with your P100 unit, but this video just doesn't give the grinder justice. Also, it almost felt like I've heard the word Zerno more times than P100 in this review. Not trying to troll as I've enjoyed most of your videos so far, but trying to provide some constructive criticism, as one should try to be as objective as possible and ideally invite more people, especially when reviewing grinders of this quality and making such claims.

[@LanceHedrick]

I have a group of friends that are coffee pros in town. I have multiple sets of these burrs. We did blind cuppings of course. I take very seriously my taste statements. I go over multiple times in previous videos my approach to tasting and don't feel the need to repeat them in every successive video. Curious if you've aligned your ek and use a Titus plate? Mine is aligned to .01 No way to get the p100 there, at least not without ripping my hair out switching burrs with a hair dryer. My taste group includes the 1st and 2nd place portuguese national championship and another local coffee pro. I also invite my wife as a nonpro perspective. Hence my spending 6 months with this grinder prior to posting. Must be noted it is weird the sensitivity of those with p100s to this video. I'm in communication with option o and they aren't nearly as upset. They in fact agree with most of what I said here.🤷🤷‍♂️

[@LanceHedrick]

(Surprised since you enjoy my videos that you assumed my testing was done alone. Odd assumption. Tho I do appreciate the push- I'll be sure to always discuss methodology)

[@jamescarter5657]

@@LanceHedrick I did not use any of the Titus tools to upgrade/align, my EK is 100% stock, so this could potentially explain the difference. And re the P100 users sensitivity. I own several grinders and I'm always happy to get new ones to test, not involved with any of the grinder companies, I just thought that the video came across a bit overly critical (even though I agree with most of the points), but if you compare with competition, there are a lot of issues with the EK as well for example. So, my point was that this review might discourage some people from buying the P100, but honestly if I was in the market for a 98mm grinder, I still think the overall user experience and result in the cup is hard to beat in 2023. I don't think there is a perfect 98mm grinder on the market yet. In any case, thanks for your time you put into making this video, there are very few people with access to most high-end grinders, so the feedback you provide in this kind of grinder spectrum is always valuable for the community.

[@LanceHedrick]

To be sure, I never once praised the workflow of the ek43. Just the taste. The workflow is abysmal. My point with this is less to push anyone to another 98mm but to assure those without these exorbitant budgets that these grinders are not the solution to all your brew woes. Hence my bringing up the half priced zerno. 95% of aficionados wouldn't be able to say they enjoy one over the other. One friend sold his p100 and kafatek to keep his eg1 with core and zerno with mp saying that was what he found to be the best overall espresso and filter combo. I'm moreso wanting to demystify the insane expectations of these grinders

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think there was just something up with this P100, most people seem to report a better experience with theirs. SSP HU 98mm burrs in the p100 are supposed to be super high clarity.

[@xllvr]

I shouldn't be but it still amazes me how much people are defending design flaws or bashing on the idea of someone paying this much for a grinder. I mean, yes the improvements are marginal but some people just want to spend more on a hobby they really love. At the same time, it's disappointing that there are that many oof points on something that expensive. Especially given that grinders half the price or less have better workflows/design thinking. That shouldn't be defended at that price point. It's a premium product, so premium quality should be expected even in the fine details.

[@8percentAndroid]

be interested to know how old this model is? just speculating that things may have been changed / upgraded in the meantime and therefore it MIGHT not be a completely accurate representation of what you get when you buy today. all just speculation obviously, good review

[@mikni4069]

I agree bigger burrs dos not make better coffee, it’s just way too simple, there just so many other things going into it so it becomes seeking the easy explanation. My experience with prebreakers fully in line with yours it dos definitely feel like it gives the effect of larger burrs and better in cup results… I already made up my mind that I’m getting the Zerno with 80mm burrs once it’s released down the line. I just love their design and everything that they put into it. Also generally I think people overrate the quality of 98mm burrs I like you had a hyper aligned Titus version with SSP burrs it was good but It was not blowing everything else out of the water and the workflow was not great and it was messy.

[@ROckNCom]

Don’t think you’re supposed to push that clicker until after the purge cycle is finished otherwise the grinds get caught up in the mechanism. Also, they recently came out with a V2.0 of the chute knocker that is more sleek while still being easier to operate that the original one which is my one gripe with the P100. I have it on order and hoping it will function as well as the original in clearing any residual grinds. Love the workflow so much that I’m willing to live with its few quirks. Really interested in your observation comparing to the EK43 with same SSP HU burrs. Please get ahold of their new Mizen 98mm burrs and let us know how they compare.

[@Harry-cg5gs]

Awesome intro music! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

You just made my P64 much better endgame deal!

[@crossen0]

I would love to know your thoughts on the Versalab M4.

[@bodab]

Dropped a like right at the beginning b/c of the intro music

[@Mutzart]

What blows my mind, is when choosing grind size, why dont they have the numbers on the rotating part so the reference point is always on the front... so easy, so much more convenient !!!

[@xemnova]

Nice video, and nice to hear about the nitpicking annoyances I usually don't find anyone else talk about. While it's subjective and changes person to person it's still good to know about to make judgement on what will or won't annoy me in its use. I almost pulled the trigger on one of these about a month ago. I noticed 9:10 you said "you're not a fan of veritcal burrs", I'm guessing this was a slip and you meant to say you're not a fan of horizontal burrs given the following discussion after the statement? Not sure if it's too late to put a small edit or something for clarity

[@LanceHedrick]

Yes! It was a slip. Good catch!

[@sonorguy1]

Great review as always! I'm surprised to see that the P100 seems to suffer from worse regrinding than my modified DF83. And thats my main complaint about the DF83 😳

[@ChristianJosephs]

Does this 2700$ machine make better coffee than my DF83? :D honestly why pay 2000$ more? will it taste that much better? Guess I am too new to this espresso game :D and I will understand in some years.

[@isaacsloan5896]

Thanks for the review like always, but it's interesting that I don't have any issues with the portafilter holder or the tumbler ever falling off. I wonder if there are some quality control issues?

[@tommihommi1]

look at the burr chamber, you have the wipers clearing it. After all the beans have been ground, there's still grounds on their way being evacuated from the chamber by the wipers. The evacuation is fairly slow due to the small opening, from what I understand to reduce static and clumping. This doesn't imply regrinding. If you dump in a huge amount of coffee for seasoning, the space in the burr chamber can get filled up, as coffee is being ground faster than it's being evacuated, you get regrinding, and can even get stalling or the thermal protection system triggering.

[@LanceHedrick]

Yes but if the grounds build up enough due to the slow exit, there could conceivably be some left in the burrs as centrifugal force is pushing them out. I still think the postulation is plausible. And is still the only hypothesis I can conceive of for the disparity in taste.

[@0whitestone]

Even at it's slowest speed, it's doing a full rotation at 3x every second. If the only retained grinds were in the outside of the burr carrier it wouldn't keep pushing them out 10 or 15 seconds after the sound of grinding has stopped. At 10 seconds, with three wipers have rotated a minimum 33 times, so 99x when you consider all 3 wipers, It should have finished pushing out grinds long before that mark, so either it's simply vibrating small amounts out of the shoot or there are grinds still making their way out of the burrs.

[@BrandonBaileyIG]

That beatbox was tight... lol

[@pitno716]

Best way to start the day, grinder video from Lance! ❤

[@JuliusSP1]

I need that ketchup cup

[@donaldvirts6357]

Interesting. I have an older ~1 year old p100 and I have never seen the issues with the regrinding or large amount of grounds coming out of the knocker.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think he was sold a lemon lol. Declumper issue maybe? It does sound like there was some regrinding going on, I had the same issue on a DF83, modifying the declumper reduced the body but increased flavour clarity as a result, filter coffee improved. I wouldn't expect that to be the norm though on a P100,I have the P64 and the declumper design and everything seems very well designed.

[@FatNorthernBigot]

This thing looks like I stacked plates in my cupboard... poorly.

[@davidrogala7597]

yeeess go Lance! cheers!

[@coffeewitharthur426]

I would love for you to look into titus grinders

[@zakkelley6855]

That fresh tattoo is fire

[@danielh8566]

If you look inside the P100 there is quite a gap around the burrs with these 3 metal pedals that transport coffee grinds to the exit. I wonder if most coffee is going round inside this gap and only exits properly at highest rpm but not exactly being reground. Wish I could have a chance to compare taste to a Weber EG1. Workflow wise the P100 is very enjoyable for me. I did ditch the tumbler though.

[@cheekster777]

Thank you Lance.

[@oblivionrpg22]

Never passese the opportunity to beatbox :D

[@xZodax]

Worth calling out the usability issues when you're in that price range. Definitely doesn't sound fun.

[@dominikcoltko3518]

Have you tried sifting the split grounds that you caught? It might give you a rough idea about the possible regrinding. I'm curious to hear the results

[@born2dangle7]

now for a question probably no one has been wondering, if you had to pick between (i) an EG-1 (ii) a P100 or (iii) 2 Zernos with different burr sets? For those of us who may not want to change burr sets and do 50/50 filter and espresso.

[@AnOtterCoffee]

2 zernos for sure. I have a v2 and it's sick! Sold my Kafatek flat max2/MC4 for a Zerno. Don't regret it at all.

[@amitudeshi1080]

@@AnOtterCoffeewhich burr set? i probably do 80/20 filter/espresso and want a zerno

[@AnOtterCoffee]

@@amitudeshi1080 MPs

[@0whitestone]

We love you Lance, I know how much you don't like the P64, I didn't expect you to say "LLLLLLLove", I knew it was '"LLLLLoath" lol But seriously, I really do appreciate your reviewing this because there are so many people fanboying over the P100, it's not to have a more critical take on it. I trust your opinions on these reviews, you haven't led me astray yet! And thanks for validating my belief that bigger burrs don't inherently make better coffee! I've pushed back against bigger is better for awhile now, I think it's certainly faster and makes sense in a Café setting where speed is money, and there's also more of a heat issue, but it never really seemed worth upgrading from a smaller burr just for the sake of getting bigger ones.

[@johnbhisitkul8281]

Next, please review the Monolith flat max. That would round out the popular known high end grinders. Until the Lagom 01 drops.

[@LanceHedrick]

Just received my max yesterday

[@michaeltrujillo9092]

Damn you… how dare you not name this video accordingly!! Let’s all say it together, the new niche killer! Yessss. 😂

[@hugoferrazporto]

Finally someone says the truth 🤣🤣🤣

[@Drift-yf4rn]

Man how is it only a grand more than the p64 for you guys. Fricking option-o are an Australian company, and they charge us near double for the p100. It's 2.3k for the p64, and 4.5k for the p100. Option o are sort of an embarrassment as an Aussie company, they treat their own country like second class citizens, they need to take a look at Pullman and other class acts over here and rethink the way they treat thier Aussie customers. They won't even give us prices in aud : /

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

It’s made in China too. EK43 is made in Germany

[@justicefreed]

I'm curious what burrs you are gravitating towards in your Zerno for espresso - I've heard you mention using the SSP HU's a fair bit for espresso in the 64mm category before. I'm wondering whether for my Zerno I'll get enough fruit notes out of the HU's compared to the CastV2 or MP's as a light roast guy.

[@LanceHedrick]

Mp for sure.

[@justicefreed]

@@LanceHedrick Thanks! Always appreciate your thoughts and perspective.

[@Cancevik]

Love that blower cleaner plastic thingy😄 where to find one!?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Nice, the burr carrier and top design is basically the same as the P64, although adjustment dial / visibility is probably better on the P64. You have the sweeper arms that knocks the coffee into and hopefully out of the chute, maybe you had an issue where the declumper or chute was getting clogged up at lower RPM? (Oh yeah you show that later, it does seem like a lot was stuck in the chute, maybe not as much without RDT? I just hate RDT and never do it, even with a messy grinder, i'd rather vac up the area occassionally). Maybe you got a lemon :O P64 and DF series grinders have similar forks and they work really well for most portafilter, some with thinner ears will angle downwards more and have a higher chance of vibrating out. I put on the DF64s extra silicon socks on my P64 and it grips the portafilter in tighter and more straight (you can also use heat shrink wrap stuff). My ECM portafilter has thin ears and it doesn't sit as flat but the P64 never really vibrates much so still works on it, but I really liked how the thicker ears on the Weber Unifilter kept it locked in straight and level. I've been wanting to get the Canal Seatle portafilter, haven't heard back from them about when they're releasing it, how have you been liking it?

[@bobbyqua9773]

I have 2x P100 with HU and Cast amongst other grinders like Eg1, Max2, P64 and Key, It is weird though as I have not experience the "double grinding" as I dump my beans in, it threw up everything on the cup, when I push the knocker, it is almost nothing coming out. I purchased my P100s mid and late 2022.

[@LanceHedrick]

To be sure, I am heavily speculating wrt double grinding. I said as much in the video. All I know is there is very often a delay between the first and second part of grinding. And I know the coffee is wildly different from the ek43, which consistently gives me cleaner cups.

[@LanceHedrick]

(I have wug2, eg1, zerno, 5x df64 variations, hg2, and about 40 other grinders just so you know in not inexperienced with other grinders lol! And I've used, tho not owned, p64, kafatek, ultra, etc)

[@mayorjustin798]

Which cast burrs are you using? For espresso?

[@purpleblue5205]

Could the reason why you prefer the coffee from the EK43 over the P100 when using the same burrs be due to the extremely tight burr holder you received? You mentioned needing to use a hair dryer for 5 minutes to get the aluminum to expand. Using a hairdryer to heat it probably results in uneven heating (uneven expansion when heating and uneven contraction when cooling). Could this be causing the burrs to be misaligned when the burr holder attempts to get back to its original size when cooling down? Wouldn't it be better to use a oven (convection setting if possible) at the lowest temp possible rather than a hair dryer?

[@freedomofnow]

Very interesting! How is the Zerno vs the ek43?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

The dosing cup sitting onto of the portafilter forks, yeah that's kinda weird, but most people have their grinder set and don't move it around as much as you probably do with moving it around rotating gear, or putting it out for filming etc. I remember if I'm moving my P64 I take the dosing cup off first. From the closeup at the start I can tell you had a few drops lol. Grinder hasn't been scratched up or dented as a result? Do you find shaking has benefits? I prefer direct dosing into the portafilter but if shaking helps I might get the Craig Lynn shaker which doesn't look as nice but I hear is actually a better design. 16:23 I don't think it's timed, I thought it actually has a torque sensing thing, so basically when it's done grinding and doesn't detect a load anymore it will do the high RPM Purge automagically. But it probably does wait a little for you since they know a lot of people will be hot-loading. 16:50 The Manual / Quick Guide i Believe has the legend of what number = which RPM (the P64's is like that). Would be smarter/ Easier if they just had 3 for 300 RPM 4 for 400 RPM etc 24:11 Zerno doesn't have variable speed (like variable RPM), but has variable feed rate augers (coming soon), initial one was a faster feed rate, next batch (2nd batch) has a medium speed one and then I think they're making the slower feeding option available for purchase or maybe available for future orders instead of the medium. But for my 2nd batch order I didn't get a choice it's the medium speed one it comes with.

[@noobiest09]

Could you do a review on the Mischief Mini? It looks like a tilted Lagom Mini clone and sells for $150, but I can't find much information on it. Would be a great budget travel grinder if it performs well.

[@thamtham4924]

Non-vertical burr grinder has tendency to have regrind if decide poorly. DF83 with 15deg tilt has that issue as well and worse with its declumper in a way. People who make espresso only may not notice but with filter grind it is an obvious issue.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Open up one layer of the declumper and it's actually a pretty decent filter grinder.

[@scoobtoober2975]

What temperature are the grounds coming out. A sette i have is very warm. I should temp check.

[@fernandoassis2683]

Hello Lance! Would love to watch a review from you for the Kafatek Monolith Flat Max 2. Would love to get your feedback on the Shuriken burrs. Mostly SLM and SSW

[@7amadexplains477]

So between this, the Monolith and the EG-1 .. which of them is best for espresso?

[@Jvbeagles]

Probably a stupid question, but why do larger burrs usually have a bigger hole at the centre? Is this purely to feed more beans to the burrs as there would be even more room for cutting teeth or pre breaking etc if the void in the middle was smaller. Does this mainly stem from the fact that bigger burrs weren't designed with being better at grind quality but primarily for speed and quantity. But it would be interesting to see what could be done with a 98mm burr but the hole the size of something like a 64mm or 58mm burr.

[@BurnsRubber]

That shoot design is a no go for me. I didn’t see you using a spray bottle. Makes a huge difference on clumping on my p64.

[@chrisg1631]

Flat Max 2 with SLM vs EG1with core burrs is the comparison i need. Your thoughts on this comparison?

[@stimhack]

Dumb question, but what is the music you kept playing? It's a banger!

[@tobiasbouma4071]

Would you be interested in testing a Levercraft Ultra? It's mostly like this but with user control over alignment and rpm profiling. Drawback is that it's no longer available outside china, but availability hasn't kept you from reviewing the sg-1...

[@Joao_tb]

I think that t-shirt has a lot of potential... Weird burr person - with all the burrs you love. Ah, and please, brew something tasty for Hugo, we need him. Cheers

[@SiciidSaleeban-yu9ox]

Thanks my friend

[@frankq3422]

Hi lance when you made the comment that brew burr in EK43 is better than brew burr in P100, do you mean for espresso use only or filter as well? Don't feel like under filter setting P100 trap much coffee.

[@likethesky]

@Lance Hedrick, wondering if the 'stuck in carrier' issue will be similar with the Lagom 01 grinder? I'm thinking of the blind burrs in that one. I am hoping for an equally thorough review of the Lagom 01 soon from you! Thank you SO much for all you do for the coffee community!

[@hassanhamza5614]

Next review will be ek43s.

[@robertmcclain4541]

Do you think the P01 solved the problems with the p100?

[@LanceHedrick]

I've not gotten my grimey paws on one yet but time will tell!

[@thedancingsousa]

Isn't there rumor of an upcoming larger option O grinder?

[@roberttennant572]

More than just a rumor...

[@ahpadt]

How are 64HU for PO in the Zerno? They look so similar to the 804 machined that are supposedly magic for filter.

[@hangcoffee]

Was the sound at the beginning of the video the background music? Judging that it overlapped with the voice in the video, I opened the sound setting window thinking that my sound card was broken. It's embarrassing.

[@hangcoffee]

By the way, what is the title of the background music used in the video? I want to put it on my own playlist.

[@lonelyfarmer]

😊. I do not have a horse in this game but.. score is Zerno 2 - Option O- Zero. Hahhahaha. Tough review/opinions back to back with two option-o offerings (p64 now p100) vs the Zerno. Not disputing your personal experiences on these grinders but I can certainly feel your passion. I would say Option-O grinders has been a casualty of the all the grinders that came after it. Just goes to show how fast things change in the grinder segment. One day you are on the top of the list, then everyone exploits what you can’t do and down you go. Innovation benefits the consumers in the long run. Time will come that the grinder space will be too toxic for Innovators to come into the space since the relevance lifespan is too short. Then consumers will suffer. There is certainly a balance here, market forces will determine that. I am giving Option-O credit for elevating the grinder game during it’s prime.

[@zeropuckprep]

Super surprised with the design issues on this grinder. Great review.

[@Dustmaker]

When are the review of the MAHLKÖNIG EK-43 behind you comming out ? How is it compared to your Weber EG-1?

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

EK43 Titus carrier, Titus aligned and pre2015 EK burrs will beat the EG-1 ULF unless you prefer the cleanest cup you can get. EG-1 ULF will take that cake over the EK

[@Dustmaker]

@NexusS4GIceJelly Ultra burrs for eg-1 are for pour over and filter. I am talking about the stock Core burrs and espresso brewing. Never buy anything from Frank Terranova from Titus!! I bought upgrades from him for my EK-43 from 2017 and it was really shit and not as he advertised and he didn't want me to return it and was really really rude to me, but PayPal was on my side and got my money back.

[@Sparkfist1]

Great video but the switcheo 5g regrind test was the least scientific test you've ever done. Let's see a 2500x microscope comparison between those 2 cups

[@LanceHedrick]

It wasn't meant to be scientific. Moreso to showcase the issue I noticed that could plausibly explain the massive taste difference. If you took it as an honest attempt to be scientifically precise, apologies. It was to simply be a visual of the issue many experience on these grinders- namely the amount thay stays back. This is why I was so intent on saying it was pure speculation. I didn't want to propose a taste disparity without a potential reason.

[@LanceHedrick]

And the 2500x microscope would my help. You'd need to cross reference imaging data and laser particle analysis data.

[@manveruppd]

Where do you all get these bellows that fit your grinder hoppers exactly even though they're not made for them?

[@AntMelz]

Jack Diddaly Sqwat is also a friend of mine.

[@joshk528]

I was hoping to see an Argos in the background 😢

[@joshk528]

But amazing video, as per usual!

[@sonorguy1]

You're gonna be waiting a few months at the least. I know Lance got in on the earlier side of orders, but fewer than 10 Argi(?) have shipped. That being said, I'm also waiting with bated breath 😅

[@joshk528]

@@sonorguy1 key word *hoping*

[@BensCoffeeRants]

On my Kafatek Monolith I actually used one of the Option-O extra stickers as a coarse dial indicator for when I want to grind for pour over, so I can see what grind size I'm at, basically it goes to 10 and the dial numbers stop even though it can keep rotating, the pointer just kinda goes over 10 and off the grid, I made it so the new coarse indicator starts at 0 when the original one gets to 10.

[@rafaelrocha8046]

Hi Lance!! First of all, I want you to know that I really appreciate your work, and that you helped me a lot to immerse myself in the world of coffee and that you helped me to avoid a depression that was about to fall. Thanks. Second, I want to apologize in advance for the questions I'm going to ask. I know you get a lot of questions about grinders, and it can get really annoying. But, I am from Brazil and here there are not many options for grinders to buy and importing is out of the question, since the tax in Brazil is high. In November a friend will be in the USA and will be able to bring me my first espresso machine and an espresso grinder. Therefore, I would like your help in deciding which grinder to buy. I was targeting a DF64 gen with SSP HU or Zerno z1 with SSP HU. I know that the Zerno build is better than the DF64 build, but I want to know if that justifies paying twice as much? Are these two grinders with the same burrs (SSP HU) going to deliver almost the same result in the cup? If the zerno improves a little, does that justify the price increase over the DF64 with the same burrs? I’m leaning more towards DF64 because I don’t think the difference is too big, and for my first espresso setup it’s enough, right? Last question, for first espresso setup and no experience, is SSP HU the right choice over SSP MU? Sorry for all this question and thanks for everything.