Language Learning - Is Good Memory Necessary?

[@Tehui1974]

1. Attitude 2. Exposure to the language 3. Attentiveness to the language

[@Thelinguist]

To learn Chinese characters took me a lot of writing, lots of reading, and for the first 1000, lots of flash card work. I understand that Heisig is a great alternative, but I have not used this book.

[@hectorpagan4812]

With 日本語 I would break down the kanji into smaller kanji and make up stories I try to include my 5 sense in my stories (mnemonics) and it really sticks. I use it as a handle in my brain and once I remember the story I quickly write complex kanji!

[@diego39074]

Excelente!! I know 4 languages now. And it's very true, you do not have to memorize words,,, The main three parts that this guy talks about are the key to learn languages. :)

[@yoonjeongnamkung6416]

ㅑㅎ0

[@yoonjeongnamkung6416]

ㅔㅔ9ㅎㄴ9ㅔㅔㅐ

[@Thelinguist]

@AkaoKiyotsu I am not saying musicians cannot be language learners, it is just that I do not think we need to be musical to learn languages.

[@LearnThaiRapidMethod]

2. The second very important point you make is that it's no good just learning/memorizing lists out of context. Same thing in music if you just practice scales (or kata in karate, etc.). It's all about putting it together in a meaningful way. (I teach music also, btw, and I find it much more effective for a student to practice the "scale in the phrase" rather than the scale as an exercise in it's own right.) (tbc)...

[@Thelinguist]

Yes that is what I find too. Nice to hear from you again!

[@ichimaru378]

wow i agree, thats why we focus on repetition and output, someone said people don't become good at a language but as time goes by and exposure to the language incresses what happens is that they become "used to" it.

[@HamzaDudgeonthelinguist]

I agree 100%, its getting used to it, and formulating patterns. not necessarily memorizing things. thats the experience I had with Mandarin Chinese, strange at first, but then I got used to it and was able to distinguish words and phrases.

[@Thelinguist]

@PokemonSpriteService Aprender los simbolos del idioma cuesta mucho trabajo. Cada uno debe buscar su propio camino. El sistema Heisig puede ayudar.

[@Thelinguist]

@thomas14823 I meant that there is no relationship between a particular profession and language learning ability. I am sorry if that was not clear to you. Yes not everything I say is believable. You actually have to think and make your own decisions about what you believe and what you don't believe. You are of course quite free to express your opinions here so I do not understand your last point.

[@aminalouafi105]

Thank you Steve for this contribution.⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@LearnThaiRapidMethod]

You make two very important points about memory in language, however. 1. To be comfortable (and eventually fluent) in a language, what you remember must become subconscious memory. I call it a kind of "muscle memory". It's very much like learning to drive as you suggest, or to dance, play a musical instrument, or a sport like karate or tennis or golf. Most people rely on repetition (especially in something like karate or piano playing, but also in language learning). (tbc)...

[@Thelinguist]

@ignac27 How long does it take to learn a language? It depends on the language, how similar it is to one you already know, and it depends on what you do. It also depends on what you mean by learn. No simple answer so please stop spamming my youtube channel on this question.

[@mostrolopo]

Good video. This brings us back to the core notion that we have to spend time with the language and absorb it as naturally as possible. Es fundamental que cuando uno aprende un idioma nuevo se tome el tiempo necesario para familiarizarse con el idioma y sus palabras. Thanks for your videos!!

[@LearnThaiRapidMethod]

In language, especially, the same word can have multiple meanings depending on the context. Moreover, different words with the SAME meaning are often only used in certain contexts (example "justice" vs. "fairness"). So it's always better to learn your vocabulary and phrases through real-life situations or, simply, through stories. That's why I advocate learning through reading as one of the most effective ways (cf. Krashen). Interestingly, extensive reading also helps you to speak better!

[@OscarP282]

Hi Steve. What I realised is that sometimes, when I take a break of one week or two about learning the language, then I notice things than I didn't notice before in the daily basis learning.

[@007wraich]

Respected Sir, Your words always giving me inspiration for my language learning goals…

[@irinasiberia54]

I enjoy your pronunciation!

[@Spitfireseven]

Illuminating, yes. Thankyou for your wonderful insights. They confirm previously held intuitions about things.

[@xamanpuig]

I like your spanish speaking manner - very educative indeed )

[@Tehui1974]

"Seeing the word being used in different contexts" - mass exposure works every time. You'll absorb the language naturally to the point where it 'feels' or 'sounds' right even though you might not be able to explain how.

[@silverfoxidm]

That is a good point re: attitude and then exposure and then notice things because really attention is the mother of memory and so all those things help with sort of a mental or muscle memory when put in the time then reap what we sew!

[@superdog797]

Me parece que la llave cual te ayudaria lo mas con el escribir es practicar el escribir, pero solo un poco en los niveles mas basicos. Si intentas de reconocer muchos simbolos, verlos con frecuencia, y verlos en condiciones differentes, lugares differentes, y ves los partes de cada simbolo en otros simbolos, entonces sera mucho mas facil y agradable de escribirlos. Me parece que si quieres aprender como escriben, tu tienes que ver el todo del sistema, para obtener un idea mas util.

[@Thelinguist]

@jonquiere09 I have not seen any evidence of it. I do not think that any profession is connected with language learning. Also don't think being musical has much to do with language learning. The Japanese or the Italians are pretty musical and not very good at languages. There are other factors that are more important.

[@magicmiraclemaker9070]

What about remembering the patterns such as language chunks? It has been proven that remembering language chunks improves fluency; it helps in making the amount of time needed to recollect certain phrases smaller. It involves those chunks being stored in the long-term memory.

[@Thelinguist]

phrases are chunks that repeat.

[@harolze]

Make sticky labels of common objects like cup, refridgerator, toilet seat, etc. and stamp them to corresponding objects at your home so you see them every time you need them.

[@madaozeki]

"He don't go" is perfectly grammatical for millions of English speakers. They just happen to speak a non-standard variety of English. It has nothing to do with memory or over-analogizing. Their grammatical system is simply different. Besides that point, I agree with the general point you're making.

[@Thelinguist]

That is not surprising, but rather normal.

[@TutorialesBilingues]

Hello Steve, with due respect, please, allow me to challenge you on this topic. I was extremely surprised to hear you don't see memory as an important factor. I did an experiment about 15 years ago. The results of the memry experiment were, French yo a level similar to yours in 6 months. After that my memory got so srong that I decided to take an even greatr challenge. Kanji. more than 1200 kanji, with their respective ns and kuns, the whole enchilada! The experiment was a total success!

[@akagintaras]

Very interesting talk. I read a book of Gary Kasparov (he's a chess guy) and he writes, that he doesn't have a photographic memory. His memory is quite normal in his opinion.

[@LearnThaiRapidMethod]

Hi Steve, in some ways I think you are absolutely correct about memory, but you've kind of missed the point. Of course memory is important! It's the area in my research on foreign language acquisition where I've discovered the most progress can be made. Most people have never learnt HOW to remember (and schools, despite focusing on factual learning almost never teach HOW TO learn & remember either). (to be continued)...

[@nevanovna]

Steve,I would like to know when my Mother tongue is English,every time I have been in hospital,when waking up after an 'op,I speak French,also if startled,I speak French. I spent from 18 to 35 in France.Have you any ideas?

[@MicaelaAndrich]

not sure, but probably you should read some papers in the subject of cognition and language learning, it would help you to further develop your trinity-concept. I speak/read/write/understand 5 languages (IT, DE, EN, ES, CH). Not sure how I would have done it without the support of my memorization system. Good luck.

[@Sandra_Caleiro]

Video muito elucidativo! Muito Obrigado! Também sinto o mesmo quando aprendo uma língua nova.

[@RysioACF]

I think the ability to memorize things is an ofrshoot of the ability to stay attentive

[@alessiomarin1218]

You most certainly have a pretty cool voice sir!

[@Whelknarge]

Memorising words from a list can be tedious and frustrating, but I think sitting back and allowing my brain to absorb vocab at it's own rate and having no control over what I do and don't remember would be every bit as frustrating as actively attempting to memorise words. Also, not everyone has the luxury of abosrbing what ever they happen to come across; some people have to memorise specific vocab and grammar to pass specific tests.

[@Platform115]

Hi dear I did search your channel through A.J Hoge channel And I enjoining you’re content a lot I just wanna say congratulations to your amazing job, I’m from Brazil and I’m living in Japan for a long time I speak Japanese fluently and Portuguese of course and then I am learning English My comprehension is very good and I can understand almost everything in English see you later

[@TutorialesBilingues]

Let me just ask add, by asking, where does all the information related to language speaking is going ino and coming out of? Where else if not the memory cells? When one speaks a foreign language the only vocabulary, words expressions and so forth that come out of one's mouth are he ones stored in memory, or at least, at a retrievable stage in memory; because there's the others that in fact exist inside our memory but we fail to recall,. Where would we e if we didn't have memory?

[@Thelinguist]

@xtopherslade That has been my experience.

[@MegaBlackAngel01]

ah, makes sense to me! cause my memory is terrible, i have alot of uhmmmm moments lol, but when i use my new vocab and also mixed with my old vocabulary while speaking, then I retain it better, making language videos help also i've noticed. but I do need to listen more, that is probably what i need to work on :/ the worst for me is memorizing chinese characters, but in time i not only recognize more but know what that character means, it just takes patience and exposure.

[@ReflectInHisGrace]

YOU ROCK STEVE!!!!

[@xtopherslade]

Memory is important however this should be memorising unconsciously. Allow the brain to memorise. The more you try to memorise consciously the more frustrating it is. Just absorb what you can and the brain will do the rest.

[@mwsc04]

My Russian instructor often says you need to use a new word at least 7 times before you can easily recall it. However, I think you don't give memory enough credit - the challenge is to figure out through imaginative associations a way to remember something new. With any language remote from English, this can be often quite challenging. I find simply going through the process of inventing a story around a new word - even if the result is the paradigm of tortured logic - will often do the trick.

[@TheMartikaa]

hozzáállás idő feladat figyelem!!attitude time on task attentiveness! This is right!

[@medwatt]

One thing I lack is asking why this is so and that is that.

[@coolsteven2]

I don't think the appropriate word for this is *memory* it sounds as if a language is just something u study for to forget later. I think *knowing* is alot more important. Also, umm is it Oscar Pellu? I had a conversation with him as well. Btw that's a bad assumption that musicians are bad language learners... I'm a musician and i do very very well in my language classes. Music is more about muscle memory not brain memory.

[@yukito4200]

Then I must ask u a very important question, sir. If noticing is so paramount, does rote repetition really matter? So, take my case, I'm not fluent (I do Japanese) but I'm adept. I can use it, I can hear it, I can read it. My main study activity has been anki and I will keep doing it because I still have maybe...15000 cards left unseen but it's become a great chore for me. Up until now I've tried to (somewhat on and off) do about 300-350 cards a day. As u can imagine, I've grown fairly sick of it. Lately, when immersing myself in content that interests me and I encounter something I don't understand, I look it up in goo dictionary and I read the Japanese definition or I ask a native friend. Would you say this is good enough? Does one NEED to rote repeat vocab or can we just leave this up to immersion?

[@Thelinguist]

+紫原龍壱 I am not a fan of rote repetition, nor of SRS systems that want to occupy most of my language learning time.

[@Thelinguist]

@drushtvo no

[@superdog797]

@PokemonSpriteService Tambien yo podria decir algo sobre este tema - estoy ahora mismo aprendiendo espanol y chino, en lo mismo tiempo. Pero, en mi experiencia, el aprender de los simbolos es el parte del trabajo mas duro, y en particular, el escribir de los simbolos es lo mas dificil. Lo mas de veces, yo solo intento de reconocer los simbolos, pero lo que he encontrado de hecho es que el escribir es importante, pero es algo que es mejor si no intentas tan duro de hacer. Lo viene a ti con tiempo

[@Jimii89]

Great anaology with the car.

[@MrBoyloso]

thank you for that nice advices:)

[@LearnThaiRapidMethod]

However, this a woefully inefficient way to study anything. Our minds (and bodies) fall readily into PATTERNS, so it becomes far more effective to step back a bit and reflect on what you are doing, develop strategies, use stories or metaphors, etc. This is why my approach uses picture stories and metaphors and patterns, as well as setting out various effective strategies that can be easily followed. (tbc)...

[@NaihanchinKempo]

On driving ,You practice as you drive. so when driving there is no point in which you don't practice. same with walking or opening a door

[@redq1641]

Is it possible to contact you?

[@Thelinguist]

What about?

[@redq1641]

@@Thelinguist I wanted to know for a Native speaker, what is the quickest way to learn written grammar? I've been studying it for 3 months but am struggling to get the concepts.

[@WaterFor3st]

This is why I don't really care for phrase books. Trying to memorize a phrase makes me feel that I'm not actually trying to LEARN the language. When I see words I don't know I don't like to use the dictionary because maybe if I see it again and again I'll find out what it means and remember the meaning instead of looking in the dictionary the first time I see it and forget it next time I come across the word again.

[@ib3scope]

You'll implicitly learn the grammatical structure and expressive tendencies of the language through repeated input of phrasing, however.

[@MrSnackerchip]

With all due respect, I think you need to clarify your vocabulary. Much of what you have described in your video is 'memory'. You have described the mind's ability to recall and utilize pertinent information to convey meaning, this is the heart of language and memory. Now, if you wanted to say 'rote memorization' has limited benefit to language learning, I would agree. Language is far to vast to encapsulated by one learning technique. But memory has everything to do with learning a new language.

[@StillAliveAndKicking_]

I’ve started listening to French podcasts. Even though I have only heard some words once, I remember them, whereas on Duolingo I sometimes forget words I have practised many times. Why is this? Perhaps becausee the podcast has context, and I am engrossed. By the way I have an awful memory and yet I can remember French words and grammar. Steve is the expert, not me, buy I concur with his experience.

[@Boonweezy]

It sounds like you took a nap and woke up hearing "I don't think engineers are good languages learners". You pulled that straight out of context.

[@drushtvo]

Did you ever learn Macedonian?

[@SuperDoggy99]

Anyone learning a language must first come to terms with the so-called four stages of competence. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

[@Antaressum]

The moment people realize learning a language is more like riding a bike instead of memorizing data, will we have tons of polyglots everywhere...

[@bluzytrix]

I would disagree that memory isn't as important as you make it out to be. I would argue that memory is the basis for how language is acquired. Take the word "apple" in English. How is it that one can understand what that means? All of the memories of what an apple feels, smells and looks like are actual memories that you have. That English word is linked directly to that concept that is stored as a memory. Without memory you have no way to associate language with concepts in the real world.

[@a0bailar]

THE ANSWER-MISHEL THOMAS

[@TheMartikaa]

Entschuldigung ich habe zu spät bemerket das meine Frage beantwortet war!Danke ignac27

[@acromel]

@ViktorColling だよね　（笑） Great job on those lessons by the way. Love them. 止めるんじゃねよ! おお、ちょっと遣り過ぎでしょ。　先生、ごめんね　（笑）。

[@acromel]

I suppose I should argue with you one of these days, since it seems a little boring to keep agreeing with you, but not today :o) sentence mining + SRS = saviour :o)

[@lovaaaa2451]

You embarrass yourself here quite a bit, you know, learning how a given language functions and uses certain words in particular patterns over a period of time IS MEMORY. All you're arguing for is that the strategy of analytic and intellegent methods for working memory intuition works better for the task of appropriating the whole complex structure of a given language into long term memory, than the strategy of brute-force memorization. As a perceived language nerd, it seems obvious that you should know what the word 'memory' means, but apparently not.

[@damnagoraz]

A single word can mean different things depending on the context. Steve knows that the majority of us know what he's talking about when he says memory. He doesn't care about the semantics so much as long as he gets the meaning across to the majority of his audience. The question he was responding to was likely one asked in the context of people with "good memory" and people with "bad memory" as people call it, which doesn't really play a factor in learning to drive or learning a language. Also, Steve isn't really a "language nerd", he just enjoys learning languages. Slight difference.

[@markchavez928]

Haha Nevanovna you sound to me like you full of shh. Your funny. :) are you serious? That's really funny to me. :)

[@akagintaras]

Very interesting talk. I read a book of Gary Kasparov (he's a chess guy) and he writes, that he doesn't have a photographic memory. His memory is quite normal in his opinion.