Laserdisc Letterbox is just cropping?

‪@WaybackRewind‬ - I prefer letterboxed over pan and scan, but on VHS and Laserdisc the letterboxed versions have less vertical resolution. I called that cropping and caused confusion. This video sets out to explain what I meant. The image as displayed on the screen contains less information than the format is capable of producing and is smaller than the full screen image. In that sense it is cropped.
Although DVD is a standard definition format it does not have this shortcoming. A DVD can recognize a widescreen image and squeeze it onto the full frame of the forma, preserving resolution, and when played back on a widescreen TV is unsqueezed to display properly. High definition format such as blue ray are natively widescreen.
#video #tv #laserdisc #letterboxd

[@lutello3012]

I understand and agree with everything you said except for the term cropping! I'm not sure what the best term would be either but cropping means that you're missing part of the original photographed picture. Resolution waste or something would be a better description.

[@WaybackRewind]

I like the term resolution waste. Hopefully, people understand when I say "cropping" I don't mean loss of original content, but this other effect we can't describe in a single word. Thanks for watching.

[@WaybackRewind]

Continuing to think about this I think the word “matted” might more accurately describe the effect. I will use that from now on.

[@lutello3012]

​@@WaybackRewind To me that also suggests that they're cropping out extra imagery that was recorded on the original film, which they did for many movies, but Star Wars isn't one of them. This has backfired on letterboxing advocates when the person they're trying to convince shows them the unmatted version that shows more image on the top and bottom. But I'm talking about open matte, what you're talking about is more like the video equivalent of hard matte.

[@WaybackRewind]

@@lutello3012 Yes in hind sight matte is a better term to describe what I'm talking about.

[@captvid56]

Glorious NTSC video (Never Twice Same Color)

[@WaybackRewind]

What can we call ATSC 1.0? 😀 I have people complaining to me about the postage stamp video. I didn’t invent letterboxing only exposing what happens when you watch it on a 12inch TV. Thanks for watching.

[@grandadgamer8390]

Miles better than pan n scan. If u set out with the intention of preserving a wide-screen movie back then, and 4:3 was the domestic standard, then that's just a consequence / limitation of the process. Necessary evil if u like, not a subjective decision to "crop". Anyways, nice channel, sub'd👍

[@WaybackRewind]

Yes I agree totally. I still prefer the letterbox as a necessary evil. I was just explaining the downside as it relates to loss of vertical resolution. DVD avoided this by having a dedicated wide screen mode that squeezed the entire picture into all 480 lines then unsqueezed it for playback on wide screen TVs. Many devices in the late 90s could do that but not laserdisc. At least it was not common if there were any. Thanks for watching.

[@jerryspann8713]

Solution: Transfer image using all 480 lines and then modify the vertical deflection to correct geometry. This is how it should have been done to begin with.

[@WaybackRewind]

Exactly. That is how DVD works. It can do wide-screen with all 480 lines of vertical resolution. I read that some Laserdics had this ability, but it was very rare. The letterbox is still preferable, but probably not on a 12 inch screen.😄 thanks for watching.

[@Capturing-Memories]

Except there were no widescreen TV's back then, Anamorphic only made sense when we moved to 16:9 TV's around early 2000's, Prior to that and for 40 years letterboxing was designed for 4:3 TV's, That was its only purpose.

[@WaybackRewind]

@Capturing Memories You are both correct. Letterboxing was a "necessary evil", if you will, as a way to preserve the correct aspect ratio of the film in a world where the media and televisions were all in the "wrong" (4:3) aspect ratio. I'm not against it, just explaining how it works. People were mad at me as if I had invented the technology. I'm here just to talk about it. 😄 Thanks for watching.

[@Culturedog]

Yeah, there were a small amount of anamorphically-enhanced laserdiscs. Warner released 4 promo titles in the early 90s to help sell widescreen Toshiba TVs, and then later Japan released a series of discs under the "squeeze" marketing label. Really wish it had taken off. The only one I have so far is the promo 16:9 disc for Unforgiven, which was super cool to find.

[@WaybackRewind]

@Culturedog It's really cool that you have one at all. The late 90s to early 2000s were a crazy time as everything was shifting from analog to digital and 4:3 to widescreen. I remember how frustrating it was watching TV at the time when a movie might be widescreen, but the commercials were not and vice versa. Luckily, it's all settled now. Thanks for watching.

[@Capturing-Memories]

You're still wrong, When you crop a frame you literally take away some information from it, In this case of Star Wars or any movie in the letter box format there is nothing at the top and bottom to crop off, It's black because the frame was shot at a wide aspect ratio not at 4:3 ratio, If you would blow that up to get full screen on your TV you actually cropped off the sides of the frame, Yes that's the exact meaning of cropping, cutting off the left and right edges from the movie. For a very long time idiots that watch TV were upset thinking that the movie industry is cutting the top and bottom edges of the movie to piss them off or want them to go to the movies to watch the full screen version, But all what "full" meant was that the 4:3 frame is filled up by losing the sides of the frame. There you have it, I hope now you know what's the meaning of cropping.

[@WaybackRewind]

Language is all about context. When I say cropping, I'm talking about the media and the display. From that perspective, I am recording an image in 4:3 and displaying it on a TV in 4:3, but the part I'm interested in is a cropped subset of that. The image that is preserved no longer contains all the information that the format can produce because I have wasted 44% of the vertical resolution on black lines. Unlike DVD, on a letterboxed Laserdisc or VHS, those black lines are not just "nothing". Each of those black lines is recorded on the disc or tape as actual data. When I blow that up to fill a wide screen TV, I crop off part of the top and bottom image that contains real data. I don't magically get that information back. I'm just making the screen larger. I am literally cropping off part of the recorded image. Now I haven't lost any of the movie but I have lost resolution. Until true wide-screen media came along, a letterboxed version was not as high a resolution image as it could be.

[@Capturing-Memories]

@@WaybackRewind Losing resolution is less damaging than losing an entire object from the scene, Here is what Sydney Pollack has to say about the stupid full screen a.k.a pan & scan: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oanHiH5_m91_hKM

[@WaybackRewind]

@Capturing Memories you're not wrong. I'm not advocating for pan and scan. Just trying to explain why I call letterbox cropping as is pan and scan. You do lose screen resolution. That's my only point. I agree with you I'd sacrifice resolution to preserve the original image.

[@JoJo-ph4yf]

👍🏽

[@ps-hk4do]

Cropping is the wrong damn word! The original theatre screened ratio is preserved as the sane on ANY TV big or small. But it is SHRUNK to fit the film image parameters. Cropped or cropping means the original intended visual was cut out. Lost. Masked. To fit a different frame. Widescreen released movies on LDs and DVDs are the sane as Letterboxed. Gah!

[@WaybackRewind]

Words can have multiple meanings depending on the context. The image as produced by the player is cropped in the sense that information is only presented in a smaller field of view versus a full frame. Same as a sensor for a full frame camera can crop from 4:3 to record a 16:9 video. This is known in the industry as a crop, not a mask. Same as Laserdisc when the full resolution of the format is no longer presented but is cropped. Maybe it's just semantics and your perspective is correct in your point of view. And it can also be true that my perspective is correct from my point of view. If you refer the term masked then so be it, I'll call it cropped. Thanks for watching.

[@oscartango2348]

Star Wars is a boring, terribly made B-mivie no matter what aspect ratio it's shown in. Lucas should have cropped the other 56%, maybe it would have been interesting.

[@WaybackRewind]

Your comment made me laugh. Well, at least it made Lucas like billions of dollars, so we all wish to make boring movies like that. Thanks for watching.

[@lutello3012]

The Empire Strikes Back is the only Star Wars movie I chose to keep in my LD collection. Letterboxed THX edition, of course. I heard the THX editions have some weird DNR side effects. I haven't noticed, supposedly this problem is on both the THX LD and non-specialized DVDs.

[@WaybackRewind]

@@lutello3012 Arguably the best of the entire series. I remember seeing it on a Wednesday before it opened at a special event back in 1980. thanks for watching.