Why Don't Saiyans Exploit Their Zenkai Boosts MORE?

Why Don't Saiyans Exploit Their Zenkai Boosts MORE? Why don't they continually use their most powerful natural ability? Are they STUPID?! ‪@LSMMIKE‬ explains in this #dragonballz #anime and #manga video also featuring #dragonballsuper and BEYOND!
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[@MrKevin486]

That chair turn looked like you were about to tell us that the deflector shields would be quite operational when our friends arrived.

[@ScarletImp]

Him: "I assure you, we are quite safe from your friends here!"

[@TheZephyrsWind]

Oh boy, that gave me quite the chuckle lol.

[@darnelwashinton1295]

R.I.P. Akira, you impacted the whole world.

[@blaketindle4703]

Somebody DID read their Saiyan handbook.

[@Phoenix-pm2qr]

Jeice had a copy. Right in the down under. Clever girl....

[@Drekal684]

My hypothesis was that they got the boost - but then lost it over the course of standard recovery time. The enormous boosts we see on Namek can be attributed to the fact that their recovery time was cut *substantially* due to the healing tanks and Dende.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

That's actually a pretty good point.

[@_Circus_Clapped_]

wait, wouldn't they be using Senzu Beans as a shortcut?

[@digitaladventurer2142]

@@_Circus_Clapped_ Yeah Vegeta got a noticeable boost after eating a Senzu after being beaten by Recoome

[@digitaladventurer2142]

Maybe but then why didn't Vegeta or Trunks get massive boosts after healing with Senzu beans after being beaten by the 18? He already seemed somewhat on par with 18 so the Zenkai boost should have given him more then enough to demolish her.

[@spirit_gun3869]

My theory is that being super sayan was the objective of the senkai, once super saiya it does not work the same

[@isaaccuevas1717]

I swear zenki boosts only exist when it’s convenient

[@MsMRkv]

Yeah, like when Goku went from 90k to 3m, ridiculous!

[@isaaccuevas1717]

@@MsMRkv or when vegeta didn’t get one when fighting 18

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

​@@MsMRkvwell he did get body snatched and was sensing everything going on

[@EWBaby]

@@isaaccuevas1717 well vegeta just got the shit beat out of him. I didnt think he was near death with the 18 one.

[@trufreedom]

Same with most of the power scaling/writing techniques employed, or at least it seems like it.. it's been awhile since someone beat Goku because he was starving lol

[@nicholasrolack1017]

It sort of makes sense to be an active threat thing as well. With the exception of broly, the only times zenkais granted huge increases of strength were with saiyans who could sense ki. Maybe that’s why zenkais went into overdrive, their body could comprehend the magnitude of the threat due to sensing it and granted power accordingly

[@spiritteddy9393]

Would make sense why they dropped off again in the android saga.

[@asianpersuasion4901]

Broly never got a zenkai. He first reached his base potential, which is around vegeta’s ssj level, then he kept powering up through forms: Ikari, ssj, full power ssj

[@NeightrixPrime]

@@asianpersuasion4901 Yea there's no reason to think the exclusive LSSJ follows the same rules.

[@vmanog67889]

Yea I always looked at it similarly almost as if sayains power levels work on jealousy so physiological and psychological their body and minds try to compete with threats not out of a defense mechanism but out of a competitive spirit (fits with most sayain personalities pre super)

[@Lunatic89097]

Is nobody else going to talk about your evil genius reveal introduction?

[@quotivation47]

Yo, right. Still, love you Mike. keep up the work brotha!

[@trufreedom]

The reveal... he's playing the long con!! 😅

[@summerwinter89]

he needs a cat

[@zachhenry8537]

I remember when senzu beans were first introduced, and there was a huge pot of them. Nowadays, they're lucky to get more than 5.

[@jessemiller5583]

Yajirobe ate them all.

[@HMNNO]

Yea all the battles dwindle the back supplies

[@barryward2128]

Yall ever see what an all senzu bean diet does to a man

[@christophercharlesrealist6481]

I wish Toriyama was still here, he would have watched this video then said "oh i forgot about zenkai lol"

[@diddleswright2288]

The most sensible reason would be because nearly killing yourself over and over again will more than likely give you long term health problems or cripple you outright. Unless you have magical healing items. Even then you still have the chance of actually dying, and a senzu isn't bringing you back from that.

[@diddleswright2288]

@@NoName-cz3wn I'm speaking for saiyans in general. Also that being said dende isn't always available. Hence why vegeta had krillin gambit shot him for that specific scenario. Also there was a chance krillin out right kills vegeta. It was a risk that could've gone very wrong

[@paroxysm6437]

youre forgetting that u can just wish for your injuries to be healed using the dragon balls

[@tyrellleach1846]

How would nearly killing yourself lead to long term health problems? Lol this isnt real life. Basically every character has been near death or outright died and NONE of them had long term health problems... The whole point of the boost is to make you stronger. There is 0 evidence that it would affect your health.

[@diddleswright2288]

@Zileas01 yeah they go out and conquer planets. Always being in warfare will naturally get a saiyan stronger.

[@namaj3122]

Vegeta was tweaked out spamming those zenkais😂

[@Nestle245]

I remember him begging Krillin to blast him 😂

[@namaj3122]

@@Nestle245 him and goku were Juiced outta their minds in the namek saga💀

[@slakerfiftytwo3932]

one theory: the zenkai boost might be an evolutionary mechanism that activates to help the sayan reach the base to perform a SSJ transformation, after that the zenkai boost goes away...think of it as how the human bones stop growing at some point, but while growing you might have growth spurts, but in the sayan case, the zenkai shuts off once the sayan has reached battle state 'maturity' aka SSJ

[@poirO_]

imagine them just nearly killing each other just to absolutely grind the crap out of zenkai boosts

[@0mercieful]

The mental fatigue of injuring yourself to the point the zenkai would be relevant, the physical fatigue if you didn't get 100% healed after the fact, the possibility of diminishing returns like any other metabolic process (purely speculative of course) the fact that saiyans as a species typically only invaded planets that were 1: usually already weaker than them or 2: had a full moon that they could exploit to easily overtake that planet with overwhelming force.

[@DeepFleeceheart]

The realistic answer of Toriyama just plain forgetting half the stuff he wrote

[@jplaya2023]

Zenkais were replaced with SSJ forms and grades

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Pretty much

[@RrraverCrow]

Didn't Cell get a zenkai boost after he exploded?

[@DJace3000]

@@RrraverCrow Pretty much

[@TheShockVox]

We’ll miss you, Toriyama

[@SunShine-oe4rt]

Another thing to add is that the saiyans was already strong enough to deal with the threats on the planets they was sent to, they relied on their ozaru a lot which was enough to wipe out planets, so they probable didn’t see the need to heavily train, let alone push themselves close to death for zenkai. If the saiyans knew about the true threat of Frieza and his army then perhaps they may have at least trained harder

[@juswavvy9634]

Saiyans didn't train they to an extent look down upon training

[@AJ-kt5zo]

​@@juswavvy9634They should of thought

[@juswavvy9634]

Rip to Akira toriyama 😇

[@SunShine-oe4rt]

@@juswavvy9634 may the king rest in peace.

[@SunShine-oe4rt]

@@juswavvy9634 they missed out on a lot of

[@clericofchaos1]

seems cowardly. It's also a sign to other saiyans that "ya got yor ass beat boi!" and nobody wants that kind of embarrassment...just ask Raditz.

[@JacksonFobulay]

Akira Toriyama, creator of hit anime/manga such as Dragon Ball and Dr. Slump, has passed away from acute subdural hematoma on 3/1.

[@zannyreflections9651]

If dbz was a video game zenkai boosts disappearing after the first third of the game would be considered a glitch and be patched in the next update 😂

[@timothyfrasier8218]

Actually the funny thing is Yajirobe actually became a the senzu beans farmer in Dragon Ball online with the creator of Dragon Ball quite literally was completely apart of that game.

[@alphamarigi]

They should have wished for a constant supply of beans

[@XRoyalBlueGokuX]

That chair spin was fire 🔥

[@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD]

Who knows maybe they might accidentally kill themselves

[@Supreme0757]

I honestly assumed zenkai’s played a major role in their physical training sessions. Sure it’s based on being pushed to near death but with how much of a strain those training sessions puts on their body I’m 100% it activates it and helps them step up faster in power when they recover.

[@JeromeProductions]

RIP Akira..

[@heavymetalhotephenderson9317]

R.I.P. AKIRA TORIYAMA

[@TheTimologist]

I would argue that the first recorded Zenkai Boost in the series was after Goku was beaten by Tambourine. He was exhausted after the Budokai when he fought Tambourine - which he mentioned as the reason for his defeat - but after being able to eat and rest he easily defeated the mutated Namekian spawn. This would explain how he was able to knock the Great Demon King Piccolo down. He would have also gotten another Zenkai Boost after being healed by the Senzu from his defeat by the Demon King Piccolo. So add those two Zenkai Boosts and the power up from his drinking the Sacred Water - the Great Demon King Piccolo was defeated and his friends/rivals were all left in the dust.

[@kevintyson2937]

No it goes back as far as his battle against Mercenary Tao. Goku almost died

[@hiddenmarco]

The reason is bc toriyama forgot about this shi after the freiza saga😂

[@adronerbert5987]

I always figured that when they trained, they were exploiting their zenkai boosts because of how hard they push their bodies - almost to the point of death by exhaustion and damage.

[@chaosryans]

I always thought the zenkai boost was silly. Near death experience maybe like an adrenaline boost for a while, but it's portrayed like "just got hit by a bus, and broke every bone in my body. Luckily hospitals are great so next week after i recover I'm going to throw that bus"

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Absuing zenkais like that would most likely cripple your body. The safer bet is getting them naturally through battle.

[@____________838]

That’s why you use magic for healing.

[@Shadowespeon17]

I think it's a combination of they'd just be torturing their bodies and diminishing returns on the gains. The biggest gain Vegeta got from a fatal wound was when Krillin blasted a hole through him. The plot convenience made Vegeta jump from about 500,000 to 2,500,000 after Dende healed him while Goku went from 90,000 to 3,000,000.

[@ChefMDM]

I think the reason for Cell is because he didn't think he would survive his explosion

[@ImJeremyHD]

don't forget that there's a limit of zenkai boosts, at one point, it wont change much

[@____________838]

Stated when?

[@xlro8f853]

I love you so much, Toriyama sensei.

[@lordMartiya]

Historic Saiyan lacked the ki control not to kill each other OR to lower it and let themselves injured, and they likely didn't trust each other anyway. After Namek... Vegeta likely tried to get injured and have himself be healed while the Namekians were still on Earth, and that's how it came out he had run out of zenkai. As for the Senzu... Get Yajirobei away from Korin Tower, I'm pretty sure he's the one eating them all.

[@cloudwalker9572]

That tower is empty as f. The cat and Yajirobe are eating them all just to not go to the grocery store.

[@margon9181]

Toriyama has passed away.

[@muhammadiqbalsyahputra9328]

Yes, may god blessed him. Amen

[@EpicJones1]

Maybe there's an updated copy of the Saiyan Handbook 😂. I'm dropping this video into my Frieza Force Discord.

[@Spurgte]

RIP TORIYAMA 😢

[@jorbokuentertainment3794]

Rip akira toriyama You will be missed

[@meyes1098]

The problem is that the Sayians had INSANELY good technology, compared to humans. So you would think that they would use their technology to create sort of "zenkai chambers" where they deliver near-death states, followed by healing, followed by near-death states, etc. And based on how hyped up their technology was, they could definitely refine this to an exact science with a super low failure rate, talking less than 0.1% of subjects actually dying.

[@Xtermenator217]

My thought process was that when they became super saiyans the zenki either weakens or goes away because the body assumes you that you’ve hit you’re ultimate power

[@jaidora]

I can believe that the zen Kai boosts work similar to how we build muscle and how our bones heal. Bones are mended to be more sturdy from where they were broken to prevent another similar injury but they become more rigid/sterile the more they heal like this. I also think that the saiyans didn’t abuse their power healing out of pride and satisfaction; the saiyan race were pretty tribal from their early introduction with strength being their ambition so doing something like fighting each other until they’re nearly dead would be the extreme version of using steroids to get stronger. Vegita’s bargain to have Kruillan nearly kill him was probably out of desperation because they were fighting Frieza, the strongest being in the universe, in his second form so it was a really desperate gamble.

[@phantom8926]

You see, Freiza, you're not dealing with the average Saiyan warrior.

[@MrBusrunner]

The weird thing is his power probably was about the average of the remaining sayains

[@exterminateparasites3185]

RIP Akira Toriyama

[@SynNickel9]

Technically they do every time they train

[@kostasismename9493]

i like to think that in the ToP UI sign was achieved from an instantaneous zenkai boost after goku "almost died" from the spirit bomb

[@weeaboo-warrior]

It’s worth noting that Vegeta said he reached his limit when training for the Androids and that’s when he turned ssj. That might have been when he ran out of zenkais.

[@KMHrock89]

One of the last videos to come out before we all heard the news. RIP Toriyama.

[@4137Swords]

If I had to guess, they find it dishonorable. "If you're weak enough to be this close to death, you don't deserve power." Vegeta only willingly exploited it in the desperate situation of needing to match Frieza's power to survive.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Hey Mike! Love your content 😊😊😊❤❤❤

[@magne7771]

If they did, we'd have seen Red Kaioken instead of Blue- and we'd have seen Goku scaling like goddamn Broly. Seriously, a power amp at the cost of increased damage to the body, _ontop of a form with passive regeneration._ If Goku had went into the hyperbolic time chamber to MASTER this combination like he did Super Saiyan during the cell games, I have no doubt he'd have been able to shoot kaioken upto 50x for atleast a brief moment. Maybe 100x for a split second- at the cost of having to retreat and let his passive regeneration heal the damage. Arguably, the backlash ought to be enough to trigger _some_ kind of base power boost. Meaning, by the end of Super, Goku would have been _significantly_ stronger without UI, creating another gap between him and Vegeta. I mean, imagine if, say, Ginyu, all the way back, had an ability that turned someones own aura, which pops up whenever they fly or power up, against them. Like it started shredding them whenever they manifested it. I have no doubt that that _basically self-inflicted damage,_ if it incapacitated one of the Saiyans, would have triggered a zenkai boost, and this concept REALLY isn't that different.

[@ZenKrio]

I didn't finish the vid, but this was my headcanon of Zenkais. They're only really effective if your body can sense the up and coming threat, this is why Goku and Vegeta were able to gain such massive amps on Namek. As Vegeta was being healed from Krillin's attack, Vegeta's body was sensing Freeza transforming and amped him up to that power level, Goku got more because Freeza was fully transformed and had ramped that small % of power up to beat Vegeta down. This follows earlier, Vegeta adapted to Recoome and was stronger than the him after the beatdown, and during the nap of plot device, said nap helped to further heal him, as he was sleep deprived. Goku didn't Zenkai up above Vegeta because he wasn't near Earth when Goku healed, I legit believe Goku would have Zenkai'd over 18k if Vegeta were fighting nearby when Goku healed. As Goku got closer to Namek, the Zenkai's took him higher because of the Ginyu Force. However, this was only a means to gaining SSj, their bodies were giving them Zenkai's in order to get them closer to SSj, and once they got SSj, the Zenkai's weren't needed, because SSj was the new means of getting stronger quickly.

[@censoredterminalautism4073]

I always assumed that they started getting diminishing returns from that. Same as gravity training, and really, every type of training.

[@Sunset2073]

Imagine if Future Gohan had exploded the Zenkai boost with the help of a healing chamber built by Bulma.

[@strawberrykeiku]

RIP TORIYAMA 💔💔💔

[@heathlivingston2813]

I think the reason the Zenkai Boost doesn't work after self inflicted harm is because it's subconscious pride of battle. When Vegeta fought Buu, he didn't try to kill himself, he tried to kill Buu but his body was collateral damage.

[@MrDjpitz]

I've thought about this before myself and you bring up some great theories but I think there's a key element you overlooked. Saiyan Pride. Saiyans lust for meaningful battle and train constantly to grow their prowess. I imagine the practice of purposefully exploiting ones zenkai might be seen as cowardly, especially when compared to achieving those gains through real life or death combat. Also , as I mentioned above , the combat is best when it's meaningful, which requires a worthy opponent. If they actual did practice power leveling eventually no opponent would stand a chance, which to a true Saiyan Warrior is a fate worse than death.

[@StarkillerObl]

1. King Vegeta could have set that up for a very limited number of warriors (10 to 20 warriors) 2. They'd find a planet that is far a way and conquer it if needed, then they'd make it their base of operations 3. They'd find out who makes the healing pods and get as much of them as possible without frieza's attention 4. King Vegeta would instruct them to be on a safe side, it's better to do this with hundred weaker punches than with one powerful attack 5. They'd hide their real power from Frieza and only show him small improvements

[@honestkyn718]

I imagine it's because putting yourself in near death scenarios both gets harder over time and... has a high failure rate.

[@Mr.Smitty420]

I hate that you seemed to miss something despite saying it repeatedly throughout the video in that the Zenkai boost is literally a scaling boost to put you on par with; as you put it an active threat, and so just blasting each other to exploit them is only going to get everyone on par with the strongest Saiyan. Even the part with Krillin shooting Vegeta, the threat that they knew was Freiza not Krillin and Vegeta's body recognised this allowing him to scale towards Frieza's power level. Goku Black was also a different monster altogether as he was a God in a Saiyan body which makes the Saiyan genes react differently fundamentally.

[@tree_alone]

my theory is diminishing returns, like, it is a huge boost when your power level is relatively low, but at the higher levels, the boost just doesnt compensate as much. now to watch the video!

[@millardbaldwin7650]

I like to see zenki’s as their body adapting to whatever caused such a devastating injury to them. If we go by power level. A sayian with 1000 power level gets beat up by someone with 1500. There body will naturally heal up and grow to accommodate the gap as so they do not receive the same injury. This hypothesis helps explain some of supers problems when dealing with trunks and in a smaller aspect vegeta. Because zenkai’s adapt a body towards whatever they got injured by, trunks over time was able to create his own god ki in order to be able to defend against it. Same could be said for vegeta as well. However since other beings have been able to access god Ki, then there is an argument that it’s like a 50/50 of body and technique. Even then the, since sayian blood is so instinctive with combat. That too can explain how the sayian were able to access god ki so easily

[@TheGibbie]

Literally had this exact conversation with my stepson, in my head canon thats how goku got so strong on his way to namek, he was training at super high gravity which kept almost killing him

[@UnifiedEntity]

It was simply forgotten....only to be remembered for Cell and forgotten again

[@stephensperr1379]

I think it’s because it reached the point of diminishing returns. If you keep training a certain way all the time, the less effective it gets. They train different ways under different masters so they can reach higher levels of power and ability.

[@ImTheStrongest]

I always use these when comparing Saiyans. When Vegeta mistaken Goku for a Super Saiyan, he stated that Goku was beyond the normal limitation of a Saiyan Warrior. Stating that Goku was able to go beyond what Saiyan are normally capable of. Captain Ginyu stated that Goku maybe a mutant which explains how Goku is so much stronger than the normal Saiyan Warriors. Vegeta was born with a very high power level. Which indicated that Vegeta may as well be the next Super Saiyan. Those information shows that both Goku and Vegeta isn't normal Saiyan Warriors. The two of them are special Saiyans. In my opinion, the rest of the Saiyans can't get as strong as Vegeta and Goku because they aren't special. They can't past the Saiyan limit. Even if they abuse the Zenkai, the boost isn't going to be as big as Goku and Vegeta because they're not special. Their Zenkai are probably miniscule. Vegeta may be born with a high power level that made everyone saw him as special but Goku was born even more special than Vegeta. Goku's Zenkai that he receives are huge compare to Vegeta's. In DBS, if Vegeta was the more gifted one, shouldn't Vegeta accel beyond Goku, receiving the same training as Goku? So why is Vegeta still the one struggling to keep up with Goku? Shouldn't it be Goku who's struggling to keep up with Vegeta? Anyways, this is just my opinion from what I've seen so far. Oh, yeah. There's also Broly. Dude is like super gifted. Not a normal Saiyan Warrior.

[@sirsir9665]

I think the power jumps were so massive by Cell saga I think Zenki boosts weren't enough to even consider

[@timothyfrasier8218]

Personally I think with the Zentai depending on how bad you are beaten and how close you get to near death depends on the Zentai you would receive like for example the weakest would be maybe 1.01 and that would be just battling and taking some damage and the highest might be close to 34 times increase to the near death that you would experience. Because Goku's body was beaten so badly that if he would have been left alone he actually might have died and Vegeta himself got a whole blasted through him so the same thing for him but because he was able to be healed so quickly it wasn't as much of an increase compared to Goku's that took up at least an hour otherwise Vegeta might have had a power level equal or greater than Goku when he came out of the healing pod. So that is my theory if anyone wants to use it go ahead.

[@jay2coolfau]

I wanted to say, you revived my love for Dragon Ball again @laughingstockmedia. RIP AKIRA TORIYAMA We unite for the spirit bomb

[@xxNobodySpecial]

Because it’s excruciatingly uncomfortable to be beaten til the brink of death

[@giovannileymeister3895]

The reason the pre destruction of vegeta saiyans didnt really abuse zenkai boosts is because as a race they were bullies and even more so when under the frieza army. They were sent to planets they could easily destroy and take over so they never had to fight for their life in such a way

[@michaelsong3733]

Im pretty sure Ultimate Gohan got a zenkai mentioned. I remember Buutanks saying "oh your all better! But your not any stronger then before!" or something like that.

[@luckimonster2298]

I like that idea of a SSJ being the pinnacle of the zenkai 😃. Broly zenkai ALL the way to SSJ Blue Gogeta, truly deserving of being the Legendary SSJ 😲😃.

[@wijinsama]

Wasn't it said in the Goku Black arc that Goku and Vegeta "maxed out" their Zenkai Boost, so the power they would get from it wouldn't be any significant

[@blacksoldier430]

Yep, only in the manga tho

[@VitaminDealer]

I think Zenkais are like hair, you have a certain amount but over time you lose them, you lose your hair with aging enough and you lose your zenkais through enough near death experiences

[@TheGreatOne93]

Real experience trumps artificial Zenkai boosts, which is what we saw when Vegeta attempted it against Frieza

[@dynosgarcia7645]

Shaman King had the same mechanic, with the same limitations, and the X-Laws found a way to exploit it

[@smaragdchaos]

From daizenshuu: "Even after the battle with Freeza, formidable enemies surpassing human knowledge appeared one after the other to face Goku. Though the power-ups received after having wounds healed became small, Goku and co. began using transformations and fusions to increase their battle powers, to the point where they could no longer be measured numerically…" So it's not that they can't exploit them, they are just that weak after Freeza saga

[@Sonic2ist]

When Saiyan god(Red) was introduced with god ki, I thought they would be smart enough to use the form's healing abilities. But they apparently forgot the saiyan god ki can heal themselves, and ignored the idea for super saiyan blue. A form described to have perfect ki control, telling the ki to amplify themselves instead of healing themselves. Worse the Goku Black arc brought the idea that Goku and Vegeta and the rest of the saiyans have a "zenkai cap". Despite the fact Goku black, literally a stolen body version of the current Goku plus a year, has been gaining consistent zenkais by battling Trunks. And Goku black continued to gain more zenkais despite this information. So along with zenkai boosts from almost dying, they also dropped the idea of god ki healing that could have more both broken for the idea of "Super Saiyan God."

[@claudioschumi87]

In the Bardock tv Special they explain that the Saiyans through battle they would get stronger, and that's what feared Friezza to then destroying planet Vegeta in the process. He knew that the Saiyans had the ability to get stronger after heavy combat. Unfortunately they retconned it.

[@BmanTheChamp]

Gee, I don't know, maybe because being on the brink of death doesn't feel too pleasant, even if you get healed shortly after.

[@undeddjester]

Quite simple answer is: Zenkai boosts are classic Deus Ex Machina, added by Toriyama to get himself out of a pretty serious writing jam in the Namek saga. A technique he then employed throughout the rest of the series. Much as I love DBZ, I have to put my fandom aside and admit, the series stopped making sense around the time Vegeta got his Zenkai boost and Piccolo fused with Nail.

[@ojpickle5923]

We see gohan comment that he felt stronger after kabito healed him. Its likely that they are getting zenkais but the gap is just so large it doesn't matter.

[@gh0rochi363]

Exactly just because something isn't said repeatedly doesn't mean it's not happening

[@prestongiles9917]

Another thing to consider is the PSYCHOLOGICAL ramifications of someone literally ALMOST unaliving their coworker or friend just to exploit a biological power bonus. And with the way Saiyans were in the original continuity, yeah, there would be bloodlust QUICK

[@whullysmo]

If Zenkai boosts were real, Kid Gotham would’ve been a serious problem lol

[@myrddraal5331]

Diminishing returns on Zenkai boosts makes the most sense to me. Vegeta would absolutely have abused them to surpass Goku otherwise. If he was (more or less) willing to sell his soul to do it you better believe he'd find a way to almost die enough times to be sure he surpassed him. Would also explain why Cell got one when he blew himself up and returned to super perfect+. He'd never really been defeated before so it would be his first zenkai boost.

[@procow2274]

Because of raisins! Raisins is my intel guy

[@Celerott]

I've always gone with the idea that once someone unlocks Super Saiyajin, their near death power up either goes away completely, or it's so small that the increase isn't even noticeable. But that's me.

[@infinitesheldon5710]

It's also worth pointing out there wasn't much opportunity for zenkais against threats in DBZ after Frieza. Assuming the "Active Threat" system for zenkais is true, it's predicated on the Saiyans being able to sense the power levels of their opponents. So of course, Future Gohan and Future Trunks didn't get meaningful zenkais against the Androids. Nor did the present cast get zenkais against 19, 20, 18, or 17 during their fights. When Vegeta and Trunks fought Semi-Perfect Cell, they were already stronger than him. Vegeta might have gotten a zenkai from Perfect Cell when he pummeled Vegeta, but Perfect Cell was still holding back A LOT at that point, probably using a third of his power or so. Which means even if Vegeta got a zenkai that scaled up to that level, Perfect Cell, Goku, and Gohan would still far outclass Vegeta. Same goes for Trunks, but even worse since Trunks wasn't beaten near death in his fight against Perfect Cell, so he wouldn't even get a zenkai regardless. Against Majin Buu, Vegeta died and Goku was actually stronger than him in their fight. Gohan might have gotten a zenkai after he was rescued by the Supreme Kai and Kibito, but whatever zenkai he got would be irrelevant next to the massive boost in power from having his potential unlocked. Likewise, Goten and Trunks getting a zenkai from the first time they lost against Fat Buu as Gotenks wouldn't really matter much, since they powered up massively in the Time Chamber and unlocked SSJ3, putting them around or above Super Buu's power. Basically, at no point in the final arcs of DBZ would the zenkai really be relevant. No characters were in a position to receive a plot-changing zenkai boost, so other power ups like SSJ2, SSJ3, and Fusion were more important for driving the story forward.

[@onagda]

If Guru got revived because his grief counted as Frieza killing him you could say that Cell's explosion wasn't self inflicted because Gohan scared him into it. Also Goku's were from natural injuries of pushing his body that hard.

[@thatdudemoe9109]

They should make it canon that their Zenkai boosts only work once and have a waiting period before they can be exploited again. Like a year or so.

[@scvzthebull8294]

A lot of people are misunderstanding what a zenkai boost even is. It's more about the mind and fighting spirit, putting yourself in stressful situations, overcoming challenges. Nearly all characters experience this to some extent. Power level is a combination of the body and the KI, which is purposefully never explained, for it is the fighting force, life force, the force to overcome. The mindset of the fighter is the most important thing. If you read dragon ball from the point of view of fighters' spirits clashing, it immediately makes more sense. That is why Vegeta is such a great fighter, he is egoistical and a narc. He believes himself to be at the top of the world, he is sharp. Goku has the inamagineably big life force in him, which drives him to get better every step of the way. This is why Gohan as a hybrid is so powerful, and why his rage boost is so unique and powerful to him. The human side of him gave him deep, deep empathy. He is gentle, loving, compassionate, slow to anger, but when he does, boy does he get MAD. Vegeta is always mad, that's why when Trunks gets blasted by cell he doesn't get that much of a power boost at that moment, and gets slapped by Cell. Trunks on the other hand is also gentle, but does not ever get as mad, he gets moreso shocked, traumatised. A lot of the Z fighters platoed not because they are not saiyans, it was never in their nature to become as strong as the saiyans because they lack the drive. Krillian is great, yes, but he is often cowardly, often avoiding most stressful situations. Piccolo had a very dynamic boost in power since he was born in just a few years he was one of the strongest on the planet, he had the birthright as the demon king, the drive to defeat Goku, but then he kind of platoed when he grew up as a person, became very stabile in his training. Tien just kind of gave up at some point and fucked off somewhere. Roshi was mostly retired due to his old age, and the new generation of fighters that came after him. Yamsha was always a coward that looked only after himself. Then we have the young Goten and Trunks, that saw all these strong, sharp figures in their lives, and had the strong drive to catch up to them even if they were children. Their SSJ form is not an asspull in any way. Dragon Ball is and always was about the sharpness of the mind as a martial artist, and pushing your limits. THAT'S why Vegeta only ever blasted himself once. He wasn't ever sure it would work, it was a desperate attempt at getting any kind of power. No sane person would do it, only he could. He could have easily died. The stress of the situation made him gain power, not the act of getting injuried itself. Dendi could have easily just left him to die, Freeza could have just decapitated him in an instant. That's why Goku got such a big "powerup" after the healing tank. He is already a master martial artist, getting ready to face the biggest obstacle yet. He was sensing his friends getting destroyed, his only son could be killed, they could have gotten killed at any moment, and he was not yet healed. Any other person would be so full of despair, they would have rushed to the site and gotten themselves killed by Freeza. But Goku chose to wait until the very last moment, he put his trust in all of them to not get killed, just imagine how stressfull the situation was. That's also why Cell got such a big power up after his death, he believed 100% that he would die then, it was really a miracle what happened. It sharpened him, strenghtened his belief of him being invincible, the strongest being, made of all the strongest martial artists in the world. He was literally programmed to be PERFECT, he thought he already was, and then he thought he literally could not die. It really was just his ego. Buu on the other hand never got any boost i don't think, for he didn't fear death. He was a being of magic mostly, that was the source of his power and sharpness, plus his sadistic nature. Zenkai is not some magic thing only saiyans possess. They show it the most because they are bred to be fighters, they have gigantic egos, every one of them.

[@scvzthebull8294]

I just wanted to add that it is all abuot developing one's character as a person and a fighter, plus the body and fighting skills.

[@jaymartin7225]

i think its because the hyperbolic time chamber works better and faster don't have to get close to being killed. Like what Vegeta did in the Goku Black arc

[@HenM4967]

I always thought it was because they would get diminished gains if they kept doing it over and over.

[@RichardMitchell-nk9ec]

The saiyan sitting there like man this sucks I cant injure myself and get stronger

[@dynosgarcia7645]

"Theres more important things to wish for" Yeah, like Bulma looking young forever

[@wwjd3d]

Cell explosion was not the cause of the damage. It was the means of healing. He was already mortally wounded and used the explosion as his last means. Which actually turned out to be a way for him to heal. So he got the boost because he exploded, and then he healed. Not because the explosion did the damage, he was already damaged.

[@Sei783]

Cell's zenkai makes sense because he had already been beaten down by a strong opponent. He didn't just kill himself. That was a last resort attack.