Laurence Freeman OSB Explores the Debate on Salvation or Enlightenment?

A day of dialogue between Dr Alan Wallace, Tibetan Buddhist and Laurence Freeman OSB, Benedictine monk, exploring the theme of 'Salvation or Enlightenment. In this video, Fr. Freeman presents his perspective on the issue of Salvation or Enlightenment. A Meditatio forum held in London, June 2012.
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[@anthonylangford8575]

I can't see what's wrong with learning from each other. I'm a Christian and I respect and learn from those of other faiths. I worship God but there's lots to learn from Buddhism. The Buddha never said to worship him so I can't see a problem.

[@joerivera8720]

Lord Sebastian Flyte is Jesus the Christ not the truth that everyone is draw to? And since he the truth is he then not the perfect Version? I myself learn nothing from other religions, I hear them and understand them now I know no one is ignorant just inaccurate, this is why Jesus came to set that straight. That doesn’t change that they aren’t that perfection, perfection is needed to be in union with truth. Siddhārtha himself did not reach Nirvana (union) was enlightening by it however did not achieve it, if you look at his prophecy he realize that someone must be perfect and even mention a savior like figure. The whole world know this in various degrees most common saying “ I’m not perfect.” Jesus that perfection for us all you have to do is just stick with him.

[@RFKjrForPres]

I think we need, as Joseph Chilton Pearce say, to redeem christ of christianity or save him from the church. JCP says he is profoundly pro-christian and profoundly anti-christ. I also feel that Christianity is the toxic mimic of everything Christ was trying to teach.

[@saintcasper91]

..he was tempted like one of us and he suffered just as we suffered. That the holy, all knowing God and creator of the Universe suffered for the very people who he created to save them from his own anger and that Jesus Christ really is that amazing and is the best news one can receive!! "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12)

[@saintcasper91]

"I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty." "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?" "I am the way and the truth and the life. NO-ONE comes to the Father except through me."

[@saintcasper91]

"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." God is love, Jesus is love, find Jesus my friend and you'll find true love.

[@kotarak]

Once more it is shown that Christian thought, explored to its profundities, is unsurpassable in depth

[@rgaud8]

I'm more of a buddhist perspective, but I'm trying to learn more about other religions. It seems to me, from what I've seen so far, that all religions are centrally focused around this same concept. As I learn more about different beliefs, I find them all to be beautiful and true, they just use different metaphors and perspectives to view the same thing. Loved this talk, really gave me a better understanding of the teaching.

[@collegoflustandfear]

rgaud8 Same. I used to be a Christian, then at a very early age (like 11 or so) I became "agnostic" for lack of a better term. Then I had a spiritual awakening and now I guess most people would consider me buddhist, but I really try to avoid labels and symbols. Since then, I've gone back to reading the bible, the Gita, the Tao, all sorts of religious and spiritual texts, and I'm really starting to see common themes, just expressed through various sets of symbolism. People get way too caught up in the symbolism. Rise above.

[@saintcasper91]

... "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins." (1 John 4:8-10

[@saintcasper91]

There's power in God's word

[@saintcasper91]

All the authors of the gospels were originally Jews, they believed in one God 'YHWH', they had no reason to change from this belief, other than the fact that they realised that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. They were the people who lived with him and who knew him best and they renounced all of their Jewish traditions because they knew 100% that Jesus was the Messiah, as I also know. I'm not sure what examples you're referring to but I don't think there is any manipulating of prophecies involved.

[@DouknowGodlovesyou]

The greatest danger any person faces is eternal punishment. The greatest need is to enter eternal life through the new birth of water and Spirit. There is no greater joy than living at peace with your Creator, who loves you and wants you to be His child. You can give no greater gift than the Good News. wouldnt you like to recieve the saving seed?Christ thought of you when He was on the cross...Blessed those who hear and recieve His words in Jesus' name amen love u all in Christ

[@saintcasper91]

...Therefore, anyone who believes in and trusts in Jesus' sacrifice has had their sins defeated, not through their own works, but through those of Jesus. And they've also had eternal death and suffering defeated, again not through their own works, but through those of Jesus. God bless you.

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

Was it not stated 2,000 years ago "This generation" shall not pass before all these things have come to pass? How many 2,000 year olds do you know? and if Jesus was the Messiah , why must he come again? what went wrong the first time? why has there no peace on earth? why are there 2 geneologies of Jesus and both contradict each other?

[@saintcasper91]

"Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven." "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Believing in Jesus is believing and trusting in what he said, not twisting it to suit our own needs and opinions.

[@saintcasper91]

.. The two 'contradictions' which you've eluded to are good ones! You need to carefully re-read Matthew 24 to see that the "This generation" shall not pass before... is referring not to his second coming, but to the destruction of the temple in 70AD, where the Jews where kicked out of Jerusalem without warning, therefore sealing the new covenant with God's people. This can be seen as a parallel to what Jesus' coming will be like, when no-one expects it.

[@saintcasper91]

...2. The two genealogies are different but they are in no way a direct contradiction of one another. It is believed by expert scholars (who've studied this more than me and you) that one follows the mother's side and the other simply follows the father's side, you can wikipedia it if you like.

[@saintcasper91]

...The link doesn't work, just search 'fulfilled prophecies about Jesus and click on one' :)

[@saintcasper91]

...If my 'religion' sounds hateful to you then first of all that is no reason to reject it. Just because YOU don't like something it doesn't make it false. We must love God more than ourselves and accept the truth even if it goes against what we may like to think. Jesus didn't teach hate in any sense at all but he did say that he was the way, the truth and the life, he is the only way. There are many religions around trying to get to God but Jesus is the only way to worship God...

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

The Bible was written by PEOPLE over a long period of time and as such it is not in many cases historically or scientifically accurate. As it also contradicts itself quite a few times. Its a book of great wisdom and can be a guide to ethical living. But this book or collection of Books known as "The Bible" didn't fall written from the sky.

[@saintcasper91]

Sir, you and I both know that you are really just angry and frustrated with yourself, not with me. Jesus wants to save you from your sins, and i'm here to tell you that. If you don't like it and want to deny it and want to insult me for it, then that's a great shame, because Jesus is the only one who can save you. I'm in Christ and it is my desire that you be too, you can try passing the blame onto others and responding with anger but this is about your personal accountability before God.

[@anadisattvasudeva6315]

Rob H 🥳🤩🤪🤤🤤🤤😈🤡

[@yueseiyunosakurakonan6082]

There both answer,s to each other, answering everything at once just makes life more confusing,try to think over what you mean to say before thinking it.

[@saintcasper91]

The bible is a series of prophecies from God written down by various men from various places in various time frames, all of which talk about the same genre of things and all of which were then fulfilled within their allotted time period because God is faithful and God doesn't lie or contradict himself. I don't know what exactly you are referring to, but let me clarify that there are NO contradictions in the bible, either historical or scientific, the 'contradictions' come from bad interpretion.

[@saintcasper91]

...and he is the only one who can save you and me for our sins. To be a Christian means to be a follower of Jesus, this is why I want people to become Christians, to know Jesus, to know that he saves and that he wants you to accept his sacrifice. I can't allow a Buddhist to believe that in meditating God will look favourably upon him, or a Muslim to believe that simply praying 5 times a day and doing good deeds will be enough to get them into heaven...

[@saintcasper91]

...or a Catholic to believe that worshipping Mary is what God wants us to do in order to worship him. NO, I want them to know Jesus because whoever believes in him will never be put to shame, whoever believes in him, although dead will live. I care about and love these people therefore I want them to realise that Jesus died for their sins and that they can know God through him. That this God which to them seems such a mystery isn't a mystery, that he himself became one of us, he walked like us..

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

"If my 'religion' sounds hateful to you then first of all that is no reason to reject it. Just because YOU don't like something it doesn't make it false" HYPOCRITE, REREAD YOUR OWN WORDS I QUOTED ABOVE AND APPLY THEM TO YOURSELF!!!!

[@hankfm6]

Just the fact that one human being's life is sacrificed for another is one of the most primitive and horrendous things I have ever heard. And people accept this but on the other hand say they prescribe to the dignity of all life and that all life is sacred. The contradiction is on the face. But they come up with the concept of sin trumping the dignity of and respect for all life. On one hand, "thou shalt not kill". On the other hand it's Ok as long as I God do it. People fall for this. Amazing.

[@saintcasper91]

You'll find that the scriptures are exactly the same! When you say THEY wrote the prophecies I presume you're referring to those who wrote the prophecies which were of course known as Jews because Christianity didn't exist at the time but those prophets were indeed Christians as they were anticipating the coming of the Messiah.

[@saintcasper91]

To be honest I don't think it's really up to you or me to question Jesus' words or to question what God's will and plan is!!! Jesus says these verses and therefore indicates that yes, he who believes in him will never go hungry, never be put to shame, have eternal life in him, go to heaven. Perhaps I'd like to believe something else, that enlightenment or cleansing of the soul will get me into heaven but that's not the way that God designed it, that's not the way it is, that's not the gospel...

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

I have read it over and over again for any years , I know what I'm talking about. Its also a book that condones slavery, genocide, stoning to death etc .....I asked you so please answer my question EXACTLY WHAT "PROPHECIES" HAVE BEEN FULFILLED? from what I see NONE have been fulfilled. But go ahead tell me. You are the one who should open your mind and learn to respect beliefs that differ from yours before you make judgements of what you know NOTHING of.

[@hankfm6]

Only a fool of great intellectual confines is selfish enough to think that we are the only intelligent life in the Universe. This thinking, that because we can't "FIGURE THINGS OUT" that there must be a God, is just our impatience with our own efforts to push our minds past these limitations. And we settle with the obvious contradictions of Christianity like little children told to shut up, behave and do as I say. Afraid to question the "faith" vigorously to weed them out. Man made God. Period.

[@1StepForwardToday]

Do you still agree with this post?

[@saintcasper91]

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." "Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist, denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father"

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

The scriptures are exactly the same but the interpretations are different. Jews do NOT believe in Jesus being the Messiah. From their own Scriptures and knowledge of it They do not accept him as the Messiah. Actually they consider Jesus to fall short of the prophecies and resent the Christians contriving their Scriptures to suit their purpose.

[@saintcasper91]

...Take a look at each one of those fulfilled prophecies once again... There's over 300 of them!! This isn't a coincidence, this is God revealing himself to man, revealing himself to me and you and promising that if you put your trust in Jesus, you will be forgiven of all of your sins and have eternal life with him.

[@anadisattvasudeva6315]

Rob H 😜😂😂😂

[@saintcasper91]

...You can keep coming up with 'contradictions' as excuses to avoid Jesus, but he is the Messiah and Lord over all, the beginning and the end, there's no getting away from it. What more can I possibly tell you for you to get it into your head and stop doubting it??!! I'd like to sum up with the words of Jesus to Thomas... "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'"...Blessed are those who don't avoid and believe

[@anadisattvasudeva6315]

Rob H 😊😊😊😆😆😆😆

[@saintcasper91]

All these are things which were written down and common knowledge amongst the Jews about Jesus at least 700 years before he was even born. What are the chances that all of these things occurring were merely a coincidence? xD He was the Messiah, he is the Messiah and he's coming again to judge the living and the dead

[@dream11paradise60]

Enlightened is self obtained there is not external agency you are independent . Salvation is received by believing you are dependent on someone to give you . You can be Good without God and God will still take you in his house ..there is no if you only believe in me you will have this and that ..this is pure misusing the name of God..

[@saintcasper91]

...Yes. Everyone deserves to burn forever and ever, because all of us have sinned and we've all fallen short of God's standards and continue to do so. Me and you both fall ridiculously short of the perfection and holiness which God is and which Jesus demonstrated. Therefore we all deserve to be separated from him. But all this sorrow and desolation turned to joy on that week 2,000 years ago when Jesus defeated sin and then rose again to defeat death!!

[@Sam11373]

Salvation and enlightenment share the same outcome; salvation frees the person from pain, suffering and eternal death; enlighten also liberates the person from suffering, pain and re-birth. Christian needs salvation from going to hell and so does the Buddhist.

[@chuckbass3934]

Actually they are not the same. Buddhist enlightment means that out of sang sara which means not to reborn again which so far different from go to heaven. In Tripitaka did mentioned their differences; if you doing good deed then you may go to heaven, if you maditate and achieve what is called yana, then when you die you soul may exist in the higher level of heaven. But all of these has their endings and when those happen your soul will continue to the new place, may to born in hell, earth as an animal or a man or you may exist in the lower level of heaven and these circle of life will going on indefinitely until you reach nivarna.

[@barunsiddhartha6581]

Arya-hindu God text : Final state of the men is MOKSHA means by keeping the mind peaceful by conquering all bads evils and bad evil thoughts by self purification and owning complete perfect purification eligible to reach God and God forgives all past sins ) ( God Shiva says complete perfect purification enlightens complete knowledge ) [ Arya hindu almighty father God Shiva ( eswar , ESAi, Jehovah, Eissa ..) mother goddess parvathi ( Lalita, lat , Al lat, Maya ..) are eternal Pure souls ) ( father God Shiva and mother goddess parvathi are eternal Pure souls ) ( Bali : sins purified by blood of pure soul men time and time = already 9 times mother Goddess parvathi purified sins by her blood == on birth every mother loss blood ) ( 6 pure souls = ( 1 God Shiva 2 parvathi ) ( 3 Vishnu 4 lakshmi) ( 5 Brahma 6 sarswathi ) ] ( pure soul Vishnu 8 avatar is Krishna and 9 avatar is Buddha and 10 avatar KALKI is destroyer of ceython ) (teachings of Krishna and teachings of Jesus are same 99%-100% identical, identical meaning,.. Krishna is brother of mother Goddess ) ( Buddha arya marga teaches about self purification , NIRVANA means complete purification and complete knowledge ) ( perfect morality and perfect knowledge interdependent ) ( pure soul Brahma Grand son kasayp, dyeus ) [ Arya-hindu reg-veda says God invisible as OauM and visible as eternal complete perfect Holy good men ( parama athma = pure soul ) hindu Arya main principal....( God command : use Gayatri mantra to remove bad evil thoughts, training in yoga and meditation and ethics before Gayatri mantra )...[ Buddha teachings , students of Buddha ..( Mahayana school : believer of the God is greatest path to complete perfect purification and complete knowledge ) (2 Hinayana school : non - believe of God ( believe God if proof ) is small ( smart) path to complete perfect purification and complete knowledge ) ( Hinayana : some believers of God , may be lust super powers and rebellion against God , all demons are students of GOD ) (Buddha believe in God, re- birth (with God birth - re birth cycle possible ).. (but to much depends upon GOD lead to lust for super powers and rebellion against God.. reach God not that easy . Only pure souls eligible to reach God..)

[@saintcasper91]

...You will stand before God one day and I won't be there to see it, nor will anyone else, just you on your own. And my desire is that you can be forgiven for your transgressions before God but that requires you to stop looking at others, stop calling them hypocrites, stop calling me and hypocrite and take a look at yourself. I'm a sinner guilty before God the same as you but I want you to know that if you go to Jesus he can forgive you for your sins. Stop comparing me to him, i'm not worthy.

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

Can you prove your argument with anything other than YOUR scriptures, even better can you prove ANYTHING of what you are saying is true?

[@saintcasper91]

Catholicism isn't Christianity.

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

Ask any Jew about those same "prophecies" after all THEY wrote the books and have preserved them for over 3,000 years

[@1StepForwardToday]

Many Jews have accepted Jesus as the Messiah prophesied from the Torah. Some became Christian's, while others became "Messianic Jews".

[@luhith123456]

Catholic Church does not represent Christianity .Christian Ideology arose from Israel . He's a JEW, hence understanding must come frm Judain Christianity..NOT from Roman Catholic teachings. Yahashua is his Hebrew name and you got to follow Hebrew Text to understand The actual GOD of the Bible.Hence one must look at GOD of the Bible from Torah and New Testament frm Original Greek texts.Hence this is NOT possible for all. Hence read the Original English translation King James version Bible .

[@barunsiddhartha6581]

Arya-hindu God text : Final state of the men is MOKSHA means by keeping the mind peaceful by conquering all bads evils and bad evil thoughts by self purification and owning complete purification eligible to reach God and God forgives all past sins ) [ Arya hindu almighty father God Shiva ( eswar , ESAi, Eissa, Jehovah.. ) mother Goddess pravthi ( Lalita, lat , Al lat , Maya ..) are eternal Pure souls ) ( God goddess loves us ) ,( Bali : sins purified by blood of pure soul men time and time= already 9 times mother goddess parvathi purified sins by her blood == on birth every mother loss blood ) ( pure soul Vishnu 8 avatar is Krishna and 9 avatar is Buddha and 10 avatar KALKI is destroyer of ceython ) ( teachings of Krishna and teachings of Jesus is same 99 - 100% identical, identical meaning ) ( old pictures of God Shankar ( Shiva) and God Eissa ( shiva) is identical to Jesus ) ( Buddha Arya marga teaches about self purification, NIRVANA means complete purification and complete knowledge ) ( Pure soul Brahma Grand son kasayp, dyeus ) Hindu reg-veda says God invisible as OauM and visible as eternal complete perfect Holy good men ( parama athma = pure soul ) hindu Arya main principal...

[@NativeNewYorkGuy]

Ask any Jew and you'll see. The Gospels were written much later and scriptures quoted for the authors to suit their own purpose. If you read the context of the scriptures around certain 'prophecies" you'll see how it quickly changes meaning.

[@aakashakku5]

Sir u really need to start from the beginning of the Bible n recall what u have been saying through !! Come out of ur RC STYLE N get to the scripture !! Thankue I hope God teaches u personally as he is personal with each n everybody !! God bless u

[@anthonylangford8575]

Where do you think the Bible came from? Do you believe the Bible came floating down from Heaven in a nice leather cover?

[@gleb202]

Buddhism is the only true religion and its only for the advanced ones. Any debate with christians, muslims, jews or even hindues is a waisture of time - They are just too far away from the understanding of Dharma. We as Buddhists can only wish to them a better reincarnation so maybe in their next lives they will be able to understand and accept the teachings of Lord Buddha. By now its to early for them so its sensless.

[@thedarrrklllord]

What is Dharma?

[@1StepForwardToday]

Here is a question I have for Buddhists: If everything is impermanent in the Buddhist worldview, then doesn't that mean that every Buddhist principle and belief is also impermanent, and thus, unreliable?

[@julianquincey3744]

@@1StepForwardToday Yes & no. The Buddha didn't say everything was impermanent. He said all that arises through conditions is impermanent. If everything was impermanent, then impermanence itself would be impermanent, which would be nonsense. Then there is the Heart Sutra, a Mahayana Buddhist text, which negates a list of Buddhist principles. The Buddha was pragmatic and used the language & concepts that would be most helpful to the person he was speaking to. Thus there is the Buddhist concept of skilful means. Ultimately, Buddhist practice aims to take one to experience that is beyond what is conceptual, beyond what is conditioned.

[@saintcasper91]

The bible is the word of God, read it ;)

[@anadisattvasudeva6315]

Rob H 🤣🤣☺️

[@anuradhaperera3802]

Written by greedy people in the church .....👍

[@saintcasper91]

I'm not reading it correctly?? Well from someone who's not reading it at all that's an interesting comment! Son, if you opened your mind and actually studied the bible then you'd realise what nonsense you are coming out with! Tell me, what prophecies haven't been fulfilled?? XD

[@anadisattvasudeva6315]

Rob H so stupid 😸😹💩👹🤠🤑🤥😁