Law Roach on Working with Annie Leibovitz for Zendaya's Vogue Cover Shoot

Full 85MIN episode on Patreon: / thecuttingroomfloor
Law Roach is, in his own words, “your favorite stylist’s favorite stylist.” As an image architect, he’s responsible for elevating the fashion profile of celebrities like Celine Dion, Zendaya, Ariana Grande, and Anya-Taylor Joy. Here he talks about his opinion of and experience with Vogue photographer Annie Leibovitz.
In the full Patreon Episode, he speaks about preparing for Zendaya’s back-to-back Dune and Challengers Press Tours, propelling his celebrity styling skills into editorial and campaign work, and positioning himself as a self-made talent within the fashion industry.
TT: / tcrfff
IG: / omndi
CREDITS:
Production: Stone x Spade
DP: Ambrose Eng ambroseeng.com/
Editor/Camera Operator: Luke Hansen

[@kellyj.azania4371]

I love the way he stood by his decision and was able to give sound reasons for his choice.

[@apg0526]

The growth, because the old Law would have read her for coming for his vision. I’m proud of him.

[@99imre]

And she could not explain anything, why she doesn’t like her!

[@kyrectx2]

@@99imreit’s because she has a history of poorly photographing black people-they both knew what she meant, so it didn’t need to be said

[@PJ-hs5gl]

@@99imre she did explain stop being weird and watch the video

[@Gabriel-ud5hu]

i loved the "i said what i said" energy of this conversation lol

[@PoliticsFashion]

I absolutely love how both of them stood their ground. It’s possible to disagree with respect and love.

[@leanneporter2661]

She is an interviewer and why is her opinion better, thats her opinion, I think all those pictures are beautiful,

[@lalat5899]

Yes loved it 🥰

[@AquaticStarchild]

This interviewer is so ignorant. She didn't even bother to check and see other pictures by Annie, they're raw and authentic. The picture of Miley Cyrus is apparently "horrifying" to her... or maybe not since she feels that somehow this is about skin color. This is bad-faith interviewing with an agenda.

[@patiencejohnson3311]

We are forgetting that Zendaya is a light skin woman. The discourse is mainly in how Annie photographs dark skin black women. There is nuance even in that conversation because colourism plays a part here.

[@Madoubfree]

Exactamente! She was seen as white.

[@marissa___explainsitall]

I was going to comment this. I do think Law Roach understands that Zendaya won’t run into problems with lighting and editing because she is light skin. He’s entitled to have his opinion about her work but I’m curious to know if he would have Annie shoot a dark skin client.

[@robinvolpi]

​@@Madoubfree Huh?? Zendaya has NEVER been "seen as white".... stop the Madness.

[@vehzee]

Agreed but her ethnic ambiguity works in her favor ​@@robinvolpi

[@robinvolpi]

@@vehzee That's a completely different conversation.

[@louisekibirige1167]

He is smart because he understands the power of Annie’s name beside his. It’s about positioning and having her name beside his elevates his brand

[@louisekibirige1167]

Annie is the photographer for the Queen of England. Having her name beside his in the credits is a social mobility move. I’m here for it and fully support him using the opportunity to rise 🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@PrecociousFriand]

I wish people would stop defaulting to using the term 'brand' for everything and everyone.

[@shushuwu]

She also took some fantastic incredible pictures of that gorgeous young woman. So don’t forget about that, so don’t forget Law knew what Annie is capable of! Annie knows what goes in vogue and Annie knows where the other pictures belong in the world of art unfortunately Miss 24.6 K has no idea that there are different levels and qualities of photography

[@electric1503]

hes playing chess not checkers.

[@mirzalanderos6046]

The disagreement isn’t the photographer, it’s that they have different definitions of beauty and what is considered beautiful.

[@fancy7631able]

100% agree.

[@RobynLouise86]

Exactly, stylistic perspectives.

[@muhammadkhaidir7068]

Yess

[@Samantha-dv4je]

I could NOT agree more.

[@OfficialFerlaine]

Exactly

[@TraceyOfficial]

Law's response was a Masterclass in responding to contentious opinion

[@chisomo8088]

how is her opinion contentious? he said what he thought respectfully, and she disagreed respectfully. there's absolutely nothing wrong with having such a conversation.

[@sxt4447]

I love that you had the guts to ask him the question we were ALL thinking 🫢

[@rainstorm571]

Who’s all??

[@kamax4700]

Agreed.. she's amazing

[@nonsense502]

No. Actually we ALL are not thinking the same.

[@melaninmonroe007]

I was wondering why he chose Annie Leibowitz too!

[@hannahbrown397]

This is the kind of dialogue we need! A conversation with different opinions, yet respectful commentary.

[@ItsAllAnillusion]

Agreed and both view points were very much valid.

[@mildhoof]

@@ItsAllAnillusion The host was not valid, she was crazy unprofessional

[@backto-il9ne]

The Viola and Lupita pictures were part of a shoot that was focused on a naturalistic deglammed look. Not to include the context is weird. Also, social media loves acting TURNT and LIT when they have no expertise. As Beyonce would say, experts with no expertise. I am glad Law emphasized the professionalism aspect.

[@ChrisSollinger]

best comment

[@kilaa3417]

Exactly

[@lamadeandfound7594]

💯

[@DevaNeeramanii]

100% Context is always key. I remember how they all celebrated Viola without make-up and wig in HtGAwM and I get how "groundbreaking" that was for television where nothing purported as "real" is never ever truly REAL and yet they fail to realise Viola, (and Lupita, Simone, even Zendaya) don't go to bed or wake up in the morning with properly coiffed hair, layers of foundation and contouring, false eyelashes and full glossy lips bathed in soft, flattering light. They don't. We don't. Our mothers and grand-mother's don't. For 95% of the rest of the world the natural deglammed look is our mirror vision, every day. And we 95% live it, accept it, appreciate it and love it. Annie's artistic intent aside, to say those pictures were unflattering and ugly is to basically say those women and ourselves are unflattering and ugly without adornment and that is categorically untrue and highly delusional.

[@LisaRobinson-v8c]

It’s not about glam or no glam, it’s about how to light Black skin properly. Knowing that, go back and look at Simone and Viola and Lupita or Coco. It’s not the same for Zendaya or Beyoncé.

[@marielabayer8644]

Law remained professional. He knows his power👏🏽

[@missdonnie2u]

Yes! He knows his craft.

[@Ddiyanne]

This is what we need from journalists!!! Honesty with no sugar coating !

[@cartomancycarmen]

She’s a designer with a podcast not a journalist.

[@ilovescarjo]

Also did she actually pointed out why annie is bad?

[@Msvalexvalex]

​@@ilovescarjo she makes dark skinned women look ashy. Not sure if it's because of lighting or exposure time but she makes their skin look dull.

[@andreypj3619]

@@ilovescarjo shoots black women as if they were still slaves

[@haute03]

@@ilovescarjo She did. Recho does not like the way Annie photographs Black women. She made that pretty clear.

[@lilithajezile4536]

This man does not allow anyone to make him a victim! He is actually such an amazing asset for Zendaya, and I can’t wait to see what else he does with his talent.

[@BirthingDivinity]

Lupita and Viola look amazing. I love how she caught the folds in Viola's hand. The beauty of her skin. I love the side view of Lupita, the knots in her hair. I think your biases are peeking through.

[@brubrue7]

Couldn’t agree more!

[@sueq.8296]

I love our raw beauty. It may not look pretty and dressed up but some of them told a story with no words

[@fatimaharrison1955]

Lupitas skin was so conjested. Viola looked dehydrated. You can be authentic without highlighting their flaws. For her to only portray dark complected women in that way concerned the journalist. Anna needs to be consistent in her portrayals. Why would she show Lupita looking crunchy and unkept? The filtration of colors was gorgeous but it seemed harsh and unflattering. I'd be fking pissed🤬 if that were me. I still thing they're beautiful but showcase all your subjects the sane way not just the dark ones. Seems like she was trying to humble those gorgeous women.

[@elleoftwocities]

This is just one of those things that white people/non Black people wont understand. Those photos aren’t beautiful. They may be shot beautifully but the images aren’t beautiful. And Black women have enough difficulty, especially in couture settings, being denied concepts of “beauty”. So it’s hard for ppl to feel satisfied with these images that seem to exacerbate anti-Black understandings of the image of Black women.

[@shaunteewillis3925]

The biggest problem i hear about the photos is the lighting. In some of the pictures they looked washed out and ashy.

[@LambentOrt]

Girl is trippin. Those photos look amazing, natural and raw.

[@cinnamongyrl7253]

She's looking at it the wrong way.

[@Andtherewaslight427]

They want pretty.

[@dpcisunbreakable]

​@cinnamongyrl7253 So what's the right way?

[@cinnamongyrl7253]

@@dpcisunbreakable As a former model, all pictures are a form of art unless they are for glamour, fashion, etc. The pictures being complained about are really "art pieces" about subject matter. Those pictures were not published without each of those women's consent. Instead of it being looked as a colorist, photographer not knowing how to capture blackness thing, look at it for what it is....raw beauty.

[@cinnamongyrl7253]

@@dpcisunbreakable You can find something wrong with anything if you're looking at it that way.

[@mimad4923]

The way she approaches this conversation is so jarring.

[@MarzAndrea]

I really disliked how the interviewer handled this, ive never seen someone so adamant about imposing their opinions on someone else, so judgey, and theres a way to have that back and forth without coming off as superior and like youre “right” and hes wrong… its a no for me

[@christinan5382]

Yes I agree, and the little smirks and faces - although she didn't raise her voice, felt somewhat passive-agressive and condescending. Good for her as an interviewer she stood for her point, as a woman it is not easy to do. However, the laughing when he would say things she didn't agree with, I could see annoyed Law but he remained professional. And he definitely threw shade her way back in true Law fashion. 😉

[@puananihoku7302]

who is she and what is her background, expertise etc. I agree with you I did not like her interview skills and I did not feel her respect of his opinions. They can differ but I just dont like her style.

[@user-ok5ez1ls1k]

I would normally agree, but I think she represents a valid concern from many dark skinned women about Annie’s recent work. I think it’s preference. But I also think that too often, black women’s opinions about the way they are portrayed is not taken seriously. She stood up for those people. And Law would have responded more harshly if he felt that was necessary because he is a straight shooter. But he handled it delicately because he understands her sentiment. It makes me feel like he respects dark skinned women, actually. I honestly think that’s why he was so gentle and understanding.

[@melaninmonroe007]

I liked her. Most interviewers just smile and nod. They don’t ask the tough questions. And she does. I think you’re mis-judging her micro expressions.

[@dagneytaggart5993]

@@user-ok5ez1ls1kyou are so spot on!!! I totally agree

[@Belihoney]

I'm black and I really like Annie photos including on black woman 🤷🏾‍♀️ I guess it's stylistic preference. I like that hollowed out eerie but majestic feeling her photos have. It's very Shakespeare tempest vibe. why cant we show up on those vibes too!

[@gurlbye9942]

I agree! I think a lot of the uproar about annie’s “portrayal” of black women are rooted in internalized racism. The photos of lupita and viola were stunning. They really so classy and elevated almost like paintings. They have so much substance. A lot of black women want glamour and sexiness but I find that to be rather low brow and tacky. Annie has a very specific aesthetic and it’s the same on every subject she has. Some black people just don’t like it because there’s no glam make up, 40” weaves, extremely sexy body hugging cut out dresses and high heels.

[@sherwood9917]

Same. The only spread I didn't not love was that of Simone Biles, and even then, I only hated one of the pictures.

[@nanayaa-ansah]

I thought so too. I’m not sure what the uproar is about.

[@meron1098]

I actually really liked the photos of Coco Gauff

[@BlkOnyx0508]

Nope.

[@Mae__Day1]

Her saying the photos of viola and Simone biles are "horrifying" says more about her perception of beauty than it does about the photographer. They were both photographed in a natural way... way to be biased against your own people girl

[@maragathm]

This is Annie style, she goes for natural looking thought provoking photos, they have a story to tell it makes you pause, she shoots all her subjects like that even late queen of England. Simon biles is especially gloomy because the accompanying article is talking about her sexual assault, so it fits.

[@RobynLouise86]

Agreed

[@michelleLCdiva98]

EXACTLY!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.👍🏽

[@w.p.8003]

I feel like a lot of people in this discourse, including this interviewer, do not have an eye for/background in fashion and are not realizing that not every photo needs to be the prettiest girl in the prettiest light. Sometimes creating a moody or vulnerable contrast in a photo is way more valuable than just shooting the prettiest photo. You can always buy Elle Magazine if that's what you prefer

[@kilaa3417]

Yes exactly. Photography is art at the end of the day -- always seeing pretty pictures can be boring and not memorable

[@elleoftwocities]

This is just one of those things that white people/non Black people wont understand. Those photos aren’t beautiful. They may be shot beautifully but the images aren’t beautiful. And Black women have enough difficulty, especially in couture settings, being denied concepts of “beauty”. So it’s hard for ppl to feel satisfied with these images that seem to exacerbate anti-Black understandings of the image of Black women. It’s not just about the image being “moody” or “rugged”. It’s the appearance of dry skin, looking worn down, etc. the way it’s shot should’ve compensated for dark skin but Annie didn’t. If she had it would’ve landed for many more ppl.

[@TheSplendidChild]

I agree that art isn’t about making something pretty all the time. But I think the conversation isn’t about keeping things “pretty”. It’s a sociopolitical one. And it’s between two black people. Vogue is the standard and commands the media. Media influences how people perceive beauty, what they associate with who and how they feel about it all. For the last 15 years there’s been a push from black women to be represented as what we can be as opposed to what we have been. To be seen as fun, soft, whimsical, vulnerable and gentle are luxuries that we hadn’t been afforded. There’s always been an overcast of grit, strength and bleakness that’s been placed on us. Especially so for dark skinned black women. So for Annie to have a history of reserving those gritty rough shoots for her black subjects and then project that onto the world. It contributes to that dated narrative. Not only does that effect the actor’s reputation and what people are willing to see them as but also the people who look like the actors. Both of these people have a full and well understanding of the impact of image and not just what that can do for the subject (Zendaya) and her reputation and career but also for the people she represents. The interviewer is asking “how could you trust this with what’s at stake?” And Law Roach is saying “because I trust me”.

[@randeeelyse7122]

@@TheSplendidChild Such a well thought perspective. I think you articulated the concerns with way more clarity, including the depiction of Black women in media through history. I was very turned off by her not clearly explaining the exact issue she had with Annie, acting like Annie has lost the talent because she's no longer "that girl"..like what?! It was rude/tacky to say to the best stylist on the planet with all his experience call me next time and I'll give you a better photographer. girl...

[@citrusbitrus]

FAAAAAACTS

[@aznfangrl612]

As someone who had no idea about this tea, those photos they clipped in of Viola and Lupita look amazing. It looks very raw, very real, unedited. Thats my initial reaction to just seeing those photos in this moment

[@kaygee8343]

Law Roach is the Andre Leon Talley of his generation. Wouldn't be surprised if he winds up on the editorial staff of Vogue magazine sometime in the future.

[@mcl-cp4go]

I don't think that they can afford him.

[@kaygee8343]

@@mcl-cp4go Really? I wouldn't know. But, sometimes, it isn't necessarily about the money.

[@LeeLee-ux8gh]

Amen

[@KryCaNe]

Tbh, I think he’ll be way bigger than André Leon Talley, and that’s saying something.

[@DevaNeeramanii]

Same thing I thought. He's already Iconic, next step...Legend.

[@n.d.8293]

I can understand the sentimentality for Law in choosing Leibovitz, but the way she has consistently made the skin of black women (of all shades) look ashy, dull, and flat is extremely disappointing. The cover was beautiful, but the spread inside felt like a disservice to Zendaya and the designers of those beautiful pieces. And it feels like nobody is pressing Leibovitz on making the necessary adjustments (which she wouldn't have to sacrifice her terrible current aesthetic for) because of her name, so it will probably just keep happening. But thank you for asking him about it!

[@bohlalenchabeleng1370]

The spread in Zendeya 's cover were beautiful.

[@kilaa3417]

Sorry but she has soooo many beautiful shoots of black women lol. The way she shoots us is the way she shoots everyone so I think this discourse is uneducated (to me)

[@user-ne4fp2ts3n]

The interviewer definitely comes off smug with all the “hmms” and condescending smirks.. I like the direction she was going then she acted like her opinion was superior or the “right” take. Idk I find people who think they’re the smartest in the room have a lot of room to grow.

[@BlkOnyx0508]

I like her. I like the interview. I love that both had an opinion and respect for the other person. We need more of this🎉

[@arielelisa9012]

I love that she wasn't afraid to ask the tough questions. I also love how he handled these questions. Stand firm in your decisions, Law. That's why you are who you are! And avoiding Annie isn't the answer; Law likely gave her a great education in what to do when it comes to Black skin. She's an icon in her own right, so her work will NOT stop and her shooting Black skin will NOT stop. With that in mind, education is a 'must' so our Black icons don't go out bad when she inevitably shoots them.

[@kevinroyceho]

I agree with everything you’re saying but I don’t think law educated her. Photographers, especially one like Annie, wouldn’t be so kind to take advice from non photographers

[@arielelisa9012]

That's fair. I hope he at least took something from this to apply to future shoots. ❤️

[@sarahdaniel4831]

How is shooting zendaya an education on how to shoot dark skin Black women?

[@TM-je5es]

And at least the lady interviewing stuck to how she felt. Seems like even though they didn’t agree, they both were able to express what they thought professionally.

[@kelliequinton5343]

Tough question with her opinion .. I didn't appreciate

[@bill578]

Why ask a question and then tell the interviewee they "should have said no comment?" What good is it to try to silence someone who is just as entitled to their beliefs about art because they don't agree with you and you gave them a "gotcha" question? I appreciate this dialog being brought up and it's an important discussion but I don't appreciate it being framed as a one-sided issue. It's art which is incredibly subjective, and clearly a lot of Black women have been made to feel beautiful and seen by Annie. We can talk about the questionable framing she does of Black women and also acknowledge that some people, including Black people like Law, really respect it and find it beautiful.

[@teekay3395]

The world needed this piece of content. Because when was the last time you saw an interview, or discussion, about an arguably controversial topic, that's just a touch messy, but also fully respectful, with a playful back and forth exchange? We need more of this energy. We are influenced. This is more than just a moment.

[@jonathanbello8482]

I love that you guys didn’t hold back and were honest, this is so refreshing to see within the fashion space

[@PRETTYPINKZOEEE]

I whole heartedly agreed with Law when it comes down to the credits and looking back on this in History . ANNIE WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE

[@dominicanbrian]

I love Law because he is unapologetic with his vision!

[@RealizeKenn]

I love this dynamic because it’s a tense topic. The interviewer has a strong opinion on it but Law has a strong ethos and logos behind his decision. I realize Leibovitz has this flattening characteristic in her photos.. they look a little dull sometimes the subject seems so integrated into the background they are almost 2d(specifically in Coco’s). But in the same breath there are details that jump off the photos.. and those details tell a story. Law knows that Leibovitz would capture the story Zendaya naturally exudes. Or maybe the grandeur is why he chose her. Either way I think the spread was beautiful and he made a good choice. Popular opinions shouldn’t always influence your own.

[@eldzs]

I love how Law handled this. Coz I GET IT. ITS YOUR VISION. 😍😍😍

[@hpg8157]

Don't like how she laughed / seemed amused by some of Law's responses

[@redzoom7857]

Yes, she kept undermining his opinions. Smh

[@Joey.Alvarado]

Law Roach is so good in this interview. He shut that girl down in such a polite way. That's a true fierce queen 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Icon

[@RichardBarnett-hs1qy]

Law Roach made the smartest decision strategically. The right move in cementing his clout.

[@ElleBSings]

there is no… but Annie. There’s only Law and the privilege of choosing his choice. It’s his moment. We are simply bystanders. Go on Law ❤

[@Parkanvas8]

Love that. It’s HIS and Zendaya’s choice and they don’t have to explain their choice.

[@richdirection]

The budget was budgeting!! That cover has a movie involved! Also we need to note who the sitting editors were, for the portrait shoots.

[@kiiyah123]

I lovvveeeee this because the truth is not many photographers prepare, she took the time to study her subject, prepare the poses, her skin tone, her history of modeling and his styling. She already knew the shot she was looking for. It’s not only her work that compliments her legendary status but her actual preparation. They just have to show up. Three shots that’s AMAZING. Her eye is one of a KIND!

[@mra7787]

Her disrespect towards Annie Leibovitz is so off putting, I wouldn’t trust Annie to shoot me’ like girl ‘who are you ? I loved law roach in this interview, the interviewer not so much 🤮

[@ItsAllAnillusion]

l love both of them in this exchange. It felt like a refreshing open dialogue between two people. she has an opinion and he has perspective. Both valid

[@dpcisunbreakable]

She kept it real, and stood by her viewpoints. Be glad she wasn't fake.

[@valeriacostemalle1621]

Law Roach is very talented. And he has a smooth and delightful voice.

[@tajofalltrades]

Annie's photos of black women are super raw and vulnerable. Simon Biles photo captures the weight of the burden on her shoulders, everything she does and who she is and what she has been through (assault etc) and still succeeding so effortlessly at that level, Lupita is so raw not only representing her vulnerability but that of every woman in her bloodline before her, there is something so raw and naked about Lupita's photo it showcases generations of vulnerability. Viola's is so emotional and an image of an emotion I immediately connected with. Those photos are about the person not their image or embellishing it.

[@Ruby-kr6fh]

Well, most of the uproar is related to the way Annie Leibovitz shoots dark skin black woman. Zendaya is not a dark skin black woman.

[@bohlalenchabeleng1370]

True.

[@tB-zq2db]

exactly!! like realistically the lighting will be different lol i am ds, would i have annie shoot me? no but for a ls woman, sure

[@verycool97]

But even with Zendaya, they still were not spectacular Vogue cover worthy photos

[@Webstercolumbus]

@@verycool97that’s just preference at that point. Her skin is too pale to mess up

[@pinkchampagnepurplerain7059]

Fashion is an industry just like any other. Think about it from a business, networking, and prestige perspective instead of just an art form and his decision makes sense. Also, the photos came out beautifully, so he was right to be confident in her skills.

[@classassignment3643]

Love that both of you stood in your thoughts and ideas. That makes for interesting conversations.

[@endlsly]

girl u asked the real questions iktr

[@nichellevictoria2226]

I love that ya’ll could have this discourse.

[@nicholo1]

So hurtful to dismiss Coco like that. She is beautiful, and also way more accomplished and poised than a podcaster. Really rubs me the wrong way.

[@justsamoo3480]

She talked about how the photographer captured Coco, not about how Coco herself looks.

[@nicholo1]

@@justsamoo3480 That's not how Coco interpreted it. She said she was hurt by her remarks.

[@zsanelrhodes4090]

As only a black woman like myself can express it. Dark skinned black women are not needed to always be shot dark, gloomy, hard, rugged, tough, gritty, to be raw when we are in our natural way to show our beauty. It screams, "is that all you see in us??" I don't always want to see the strong and endurance strength of the dark skinned woman. Its such a cliche! Where is your imagination when it comes to us??? Zendaya cannot shoot that way so Annie was cool to make her look her part, in that part, if you know, you know. But we/us dark skinned Sistas come in all ranges of beauty so up your game, and focus on that part like you do for others ok Annie! Thank you, that is all.

[@sherryshaoling]

yes...and, why aren't light skinned white women shown as hard, rugged, tough gritty, and only dark skinned black women are? also i don't recall seeing many white women portrayed with no makeup and in harsh lighting?

[@KryCaNe]

I don’t think this was an interview, more like an interrogation with judgement. It’s disappointing watching such a good interviewer impose her judgement rather than ask more questions about the Leibovitz shoot.

[@wildfire_xo]

I agree on her take on Leibovitz. I think Law is fully aware of her horrible & down right unattractive imagery she creates of black women. All the same, he knew the grandeur behind the US Vogue cover and how important it would be for Zendaya to photographed by someone on Annie's calibre. Law saw the vision that it would do so much more for her fashion career than otherwise. I respect the interviewer for standing her ground in her opinion, but maybe dont go so hard in the paint about it lol industry is industry

[@h3artands0uLL]

I agree. She could’ve done without some of the looks and pausing mid sentence to illustrate her feelings. Say what you think in the most professional way possible. Your passion is still what is going to come across instead of the half sentences. I appreciate that they can have this discourse. He just came off more calm and collected than she did about a heavy topic. And she didn’t quite say what exactly it was about the portrayal of Black women that has Annie coming up short in the community. Say it with your chest. Say it professional and calm and watch how this discourse could have really been even more

[@toryjei9435]

​@@h3artands0uLLAll the tone checking needs to be deaded. She authentically and wholly responded and it was beautiful. He asked her opinion and she gave it. Maybe you would do it absent of dynamics but that would be YOU. All this damn online projecting and rules. Kudos to the interviewer.

[@caleblatreille8224]

@@toryjei9435 Thank you! The whole reason I come to this channel and not a million other boring fashion commenters online is exactly because of her tone and attitude. And obviously it's working, she's interviewing GD LAW ROACH!!!

[@dva5610]

@@toryjei9435it was not beautiful. The interviewer is tacky and déclassé.

[@donghyunlee6893]

how can you change the industry without these conversations?

[@zairajimenez1047]

Just found this, and i absolutely love the way he stood his ground!! Also of the way they were both respectful of their opinions! At the end of the day, he was happy with who he chose, and that's what matters! ❤

[@jaibyrd6028]

Hhmmm the Rihanna shoot was good. And I also feel like the shots of Lupita, Simone and Viola were supposed to be very raw and real. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it. I feel like it captures their realness; no makeup no retouch just raw

[@RealizeKenn]

I agree

[@casiedomingos5197]

This is what I thought as well. But somehow the Simone Biles one was truly horrible. I do wish to know why the “raw” theme always has to apply to darkskin black woma. Like let’s try something else fairy theme/futuristic/glam/oldschool.. somethinggggg

[@dva5610]

@@casiedomingos5197that’s more of an issue with creative / art direction overall, rather than the photography

[@sdw86]

Wondering if she thought they were bad bc they were natural?? Offended by them not being glammed up? We are overly sensitive often bc of our own self esteem

[@coziestbbw]

This is what I’ve been saying but people are reaching frfr.

[@Emiandy28]

They were beautiful in their natural form. Great answers by Law! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@jcc9549]

This is a very honest and frank conversation. And I appreciate the positions and opinions on the issues regarding Annie. That said, I don’t think it’s some sort of racist intent with Annie though, maybe she’s just b/w tone blind. And honestly, some photographers aren’t versatile. Maybe Annie isn’t right for DARK skin, but Zendaya isn’t that. So perhaps that’s why we got the photos we did.

[@toryjei9435]

This is the nuance. Zendaya is white adjacent. Law should've just said it and kept it real.

[@Ruby-kr6fh]

Right, I feel like it's really that simple.

[@tB-zq2db]

this

[@dva5610]

Are we forgetting that Annie has shot Rihanna’s Vogue covers as well which are beyond phenomenal?

[@Webstercolumbus]

@@toryjei9435can the internet handle that much realness though ?

[@sunrisemoonblossom]

Appreciate the raw & difficult questions & Law’s honesty!!! Wish we had more of this from interviewers & celebrities

[@MELZFANCLUB]

I think this was one of the best interviews with Law! Bravo to you both!

[@nopennjnklphvfvfc]

There seems to be a relationship here of mutual respect that allows them both to communicate in the earnest way they do. It’s refreshing to watch. The interviewer is clearly knowledgeable about fashion and fashion history. Her voice is also incredibly appealing. Akin to cashmere; full of texture, with a certain softness and clear utility. It makes her “messy” question more probing than provocative to me, because it doesn’t sound like simple rhetoric. She really seems to be curious for an answer. And Law Roach, to me, possesses a special kind of visionary talent that’s deep-seated. It shines through as untouched, eclectic yet curated and continuously refined. I felt his comfortability in this particular interview more than any other I’ve seen with him.

[@stephenrhys5374]

This is my first time watching you. What a fiercely intelligent and articulate interviewer you are. ❤

[@avivabumgardner6107]

Also, Law’s point was that Annie L is a LEGEND. Despite the other concerns.

[@BlkOnyx0508]

We need to stop these ideas. I don’t care legend or not. If the work isn’t good it isn’t good and no it was Not good for Viola not Lupita or Simone

[@redzoom7857]

It made my SKIN CRAWL how the interviewer repeatedly tried to undermine and devalue his opinion on Annie because it did not align with hers. That was so immature and unprofessional! She stated her opinion but kept pushing it over and over and trying to beat him over the head with it. He doesn’t have to defend his choice to that woman! You can’t tell someone what to think about someone else NOR tell them what their experience was like with that person! Her personal opinions and issues with Annie do not have to become his, and I’m glad he shut her down each time.

[@solargeknowles4354]

Law roach was being honest. He wanted an Annie moment despite all the racial discussions black women having been saying. Zendaya is a HUGE young star, who is biracial, with loose hair gurl patterns and light skin and olive light brown eyes. Of course Annie was going to get this shoot right. Zendaya and Law could took this opportunity to highlight other photographers.😊

[@verycool97]

exactly, so instead of giving someone that platform and changing their life (and getting better pictures) he chose whoever was the most popular

[@kilaa3417]

He's allowed to work with what he considers legends, that's something in your career in this industry that you may strive for and black people being policed like he is is completely unfair. Annie has shot beautiful images of dark skin black women who all have a great experience working with her just like Law did -- I think this discourse is very misguided

[@BlkOnyx0508]

@@verycool97Best comment out of this thread🎉

[@julissaemile1954]

"Zendaya seems like she has a slight dance background"... have you heard of shake it up?

[@12345678maaambouh]

I was looking for this comment 😂 honestly jokes aside I was like how are you so prepared and also did not know Zendaya is a whole dancer aside from her acting!? like I thought everyone knew that

[@hm2011100]

By all means ask important & challenging questions, but geez, the sanctimonious & judgmental attitude is such a turn off. Asking Law to call you for recommendations? Trumping up your own dance background to put down models for not “getting it”? Patronising & cringeworthy. Law stayed calm & respectful, you didn’t. Won’t be tuning in again.

[@dpcisunbreakable]

You won't be missed.

[@gauravvikalp]

I respect her for asking the right questions

[@onlyoneofme7]

so happy you kept it honest!

[@erinpaterson9220]

I love the photos of viola Davis and Lupita!! Absolutely stunning! NATURAL🫶

[@deanawells4395]

It was a very interesting decision to use Annie …. I am glad it worked in this shoot

[@r4ultra]

I LOVE THIS!!! thank you for having Law. i cannot wait to see more of your work, and more work with Law of course. icons!

[@missequire2008]

I understand Law wanting this experience for himself, but I also think he’s so fortunate that Zendaya is not darker skin and is so beautiful in her movements. With another client of a different and darker hue, he might have traded his fantasy for their nightmare images and that’s something to consider.

[@suzannefarrington4143]

This is only about this particular situation. Another client might have gotten some other choice.

[@missequire2008]

@@suzannefarrington4143respectfully I think the choice was about the experience he wanted to have and he’s fortunate to have a client who didn’t suffer because of that decision. I wonder if he would have pressed for the same photographer with a differently hued client. Moreover, the issue for me is that AL cannot be trusted by Black women given her most recent work with Black women in totality.

[@tommyn72]

I love how he stood behind Annie. He beat her argument back with facts.

[@alexiatorrez7680]

Law Roach worked so hard to achieve what he had so…. Right now he’s in a position to pick with who he wants to work with. And I believe he will speak 🗣️ up if he something wrong

[@yamkelagrey5892]

I loved everything about this back and forth.

[@Jahton.]

This conversation separates the architects in fashion differently from the fashion consumer/lovers

[@Oldfarmlady]

I think folks have become so used to photo shop, filters, makeup & lighting they don't know what to do when we strip all that away. I love those photo's. They're gorgeous, timeless and elegant.

[@pfromtx]

Law is so confident. And you were so resilient. ❤️🎉👏🏽

[@RSuavve]

Y’all’s problems and issues aren’t everyone else’s problems and issues. I can’t believe that interviewer was trying to force him to agree. It seems Annie L shoots raw photography and like it or not, that’s how y’all dark skinned women look without the glamour. It seems more so to me y’all don’t like yourselves and when it’s in your face you hate it even more. It is not Annie’s fault y’all dislike yourselves when you don’t have the wigs, makeup, etc.

[@LoneRanger-et7gq]

I can't believe you thought writing and subsequently pressing the submit button for this problematic comment was the move? As a lightskin bw myself, I am deeply offended and taken aback by your lack of empathy and self awareness. Commenting:"Y'alls problems are not everyone else's," as a response to another bw's concern with being poorly captured/photographed by a non-black photographer, is nothing short of disgusting. It is the epitome of gaslighting when people accuse dark-skin bw of being difficult and self-loathing when they express their valid grievances.

[@b.bradshaw8019]

This podcaster obviously desired a different lens - a lens that probably believes that those photos, their hair etc were not "presentable" (in a eurocentric way). These women were shot in their rawest form, which honors their NATURAL beauty ...which she believes is "horrifying"...??? says more about the podcaster than Annie. Those photos were exquisite.

[@BlkOnyx0508]

I think you don’t understand photography. I don’t have an issue with what was or wasn’t there. It’s the quality. And it was just not good

[@shushuwu]

Miss 24.6K looking down On a LEGENDARY photographer because she can’t stand the honesty of some of her work! I love the cover of Coco I love the study of Viola Davis & Lupita Nyongo ! I love how much Law was impressed by not only the work, but his own confidence in his decision. This young man does nothing but raise my high esteem of him!

[@mere0]

wow, i just looked up the coco gauff and simone biles photoshoots mentioned and they both looked so gorgeous to me! coco in particular was literally glowingggg in the outdoors shots. the studio shots for both of them definitely had less brightness/contrast, but i thought that was how this photographer shoots everyone? i must be missing something😶

[@JKReAl]

That she hates that Annie is white, that’s all. She’s an ignorant who don’t know a thing about photography

[@coziestbbw]

Lemme tell you something about dark skin. Dark skin is labeled when you continually label it. Annie depicted a darker side of reality and ART with Lupita, Simone, and Viola. Simone had been struggling with mental and emotional distress for a while due to criticism from many people. When Simone was pictured as such in the magazine, it gave off that feeling of darkness, void, pain, sadness instead of happiness and cheeky. Do you know why? Because Simone has literally stated so many times, that people want her to be a certain way from her normal feelings. It’s okay to be sad, to take a break, to not smile all the damn time. Do you understand how stressful it is to be a woman and have to act like a “dark skin” woman on the regular. And if you don’t know or understand…this simply means wearing a mask in order to protect your skin from being judged. Viola gave off Raw emotion. She gave off a side that people most likely refuse to see or understand, which is raw natural beauty. Everyone assumes being black comes with extra-ness or undefined characteristics, but she just said “let me show them me.” Why as a black community, do we have to be seen in a flashy way in order to be seen as beautiful? And then we pin complexions against one another instead of teaching others that beauty can be raw, dressed up, contoured, undefinable, naked, dark, light, humored or sexy, etc. Art isn’t about putting an end to its form. It’s expandable beauty.

[@christinan5382]

Yes absolutely, so well said!! 🙏

[@aparris8562]

Law is Kikiing internally 😂😂

[@lastdays9163]

He is right. She is a photographer, she’s not an iPhone trained “artist”…she’s a pro and an artist. It’s craft whether you like her style or not.

[@elishamiyahira4301]

I love not only the way he stood his position but how the interviewer respectfully and playfully stood her ground too. She could have been fake and just applauded law. And law answered so graceful. I don’t think you can catch law in a classless moment ever. His literal presence and how he presents himself and talks is so composed and classy.

[@MicNic]

Engaging in meaningful conversation from two different perspectives, both parties gracefully agreeing to disagree. File this under: a lesson in how to communicate.

[@honil.]

I feel like the interviewer is stuck on her negative opinion towards annie.. shes one of the last image makers that does it like avedon or irving penn

[@gregap8282]

The host is so dramatic my God.

[@BlkOnyx0508]

That’s why she has the job

[@kikim6116]

I saw Dune 2. Then I started watching Zendaya’s red carpets for Dune. And I saw him behind her at each one. So, I was like, who dat? Just seeing them together I knew there was something special going on. This interview is my first time hearing him. Wow. Love this.

[@janasweeney8494]

It is truly simplistic to say - did you see Annie's photos, did you like what the subjects looked like, did she make them pretty? It's always a story with Annie, there is a conversation and intention to achieve the final look. I love that he laid out what goes into the shoot - understanding the history, the story, the craft, the teams that work together, it's not one photographer's decision and action. I see the concern but Annie is a pro and she delivers not just to her vision and taste but to the brief as well.

[@BlkOnyx0508]

I don’t know or care about the conversation with Viola or Lupita. The photos are horrible. Emphasis on photo. We are discussing a photographer and she missed the mark

[@justsamoo3480]

Well to me Lupita’s shoot in particular looks depleted. I know she going for a naturalistic look and probably had good intentions, but the end result, to me, didn’t work out.

[@Webstercolumbus]

That’s what people get for thinking they know these celebs . Our opinions aren’t theirs. These things we wanna be “woke” about don’t always connect. Law roach wanted his muse a biracial woman to be shot by Annie. Because in his words she’s a legend. And they like her work. And that is okay.

[@mikellestreet4056]

Not in his words: Annie is a legend whether you think her work is good or not.

[@avivabumgardner6107]

Annie L is a photography legend full stop.

[@olggg9740]

I love that the questions were difficult and they were disagreeing but with so much respect. More of these please!

[@andycalimara]

This is why not every home girl needs a podcast.

[@tasintamron]

I understand where he’s coming from and her spread is beautiful, however it is interesting that he hasn’t paid attention to the “back and forth” pertaining to the way Annie captures black women when they go so hard for black women. A lot of what they do is paying homage to black women that came before them. His answers had me like, “Law, be REAL.” Maybe photographing dark skinned women isn’t Annie’s thing but since Zendaya is obviously light skinned, it was easier. 🤷🏿‍♀️

[@crystalmasters8582]

Law is quality people, no back tracking on his decisions. Love it!

[@wendysmith3259]

I’m so confused by the interviewer’s standard of beauty, all the women were stunningly beautifully photographed.

[@heyauntielunden]

What a great discourse. You both seemed to agree to disagree in a professional manner. Law’s experience was as from behind the scenes. The interviewer is speaking about the finished product and post production choices.

[@Erin_Bee]

I think Law mentioned the issue. She already has the lighting set before they arrive. I think that is crazy. Since Z has a lighter complexion she didn’t look as ashy and dull as the beautiful Viola and Lupita. I love Law and there is nothing he can do about. I’m glad he and Z had a good experience.

[@lukebrennan9584]

Loved this convo and respectful yet opinionated dynamic

[@abrockman102]

Great intervirw🎉 and Law shows us … you get what you expect from people and situations. He is powerful in creating what he wants without being dissuaded by what has happened in the past or what others think .

[@ValerieGonzalez]

Reading the comments, I think people misunderstand the reason behind the negative criticism of Liebowitz’ photography of women of color like Viola Davis. Davis, Biles, and Nyong’o are beautiful and their beauty captured raw still comes through. The problematic choices for critics have been based on the “muted tones” chosen for several of the shoots for POC. It’s hard to visualize but for a good comparison see the Liebowitz photo of Davis and then see her in the Dario Calmese shoot for Vanity Fair July 2020. Lighting people with darker skin tones is a skill that challenges not only photographers but filmmakers, too. MIC magazine wrote a good piece on that in 2017 over the expert lighting by cinematographer Ava Berkofsky on properly lighting black faces for HBO’s Insecure.

[@camilogomezkeep2324]

I saw the pictures of Viola and Lupita's pictures and I find them beautiful....Also, love how Roach didn't cave in and politely said "I disagree".

[@DliciousFilms]

Annie is the one. Ya’ll haters don’t even know. Other photographers rarely come close. She’s a legend.