Lawrie rates new buses... badly - a Vlog at EuroBus Con

[@rolandharmer6402]

If you want an electric bus with unlimited range and no need to park for recharging - then use a TROLLEYBUS! Battery trolleybuses will recharge their small batteries whilst running under the overhead and then use their batteries to enable them to run a short distance beyond the wires. The AEC regent is glorious! Thanks Lawrie.

[@davidty2006]

And casually proove you can have tall double decker busses fit under wires.

[@markwright3161]

@@davidty2006 And that it isn't too complicated to make happen as they were everywhere *before* WW2 in the UK.

[@bimmingham]

@@davidty2006 search 'london trolleybus' and you'll be surprised

[@thomasawl]

I love how everyone just forgets trolleybusses exist

[@lloydpenfold486]

As one of the people who found it in a field, I'm glad you like our 1931 Birmingham AEC Regent.

[@lmm]

I think it's stunning!

[@johndeere7245]

Best in show for sure.

[@SteamboatWilley]

Well done to the people who restored it, because it looks absolutely stunning.

[@lloydpenfold486]

It has just won the prestigious RAC 'restoration' award, beating an Aston Matin and a Rolls Royce!

[@worldcomicsreview354]

"Found" I like the idea somebody circa 1953 turned around one day and went "now where did I put the bus?"

[@zanderkmd2020]

I have to say, Lawrie does indeed look dashing in a suit.

[@guidor.4161]

Yep suits him perfectly 😂

[@harald.370]

And rather suitable for such an event 👍

[@tr673]

the hideous snorkel looking thing on the front of the Metrocity at 11:37, as well as incorporating the silly digital mirrors, mainly exists to cover up part of the windscreen wiper mounting for a specific regulation London are introducing. Like you said, it's slapped on as an afterthought just for London, and everywhere else gets the normal, actually quite decent front end design Also, coming from a bus enthusiast, a lot of bus/coach manufacturers have really upped the ugly in the past few years!

[@andrewentwistle515]

Well I bet that not many people would expect Lawrie to do a video like this. But what an interesting one yet again, This time on New Buses & Coaches. My favourite was seeing the VanHool coaches.

[@worldcomicsreview354]

You could probably fit a couple of Kw of solar on top of an electric bus. On single deckers, maybe even on curved rails so the panels can to an extent tilt nd track the sun. They could charge secondary batteries for the lighting, destination, USB charge and other gubbins, leaving the main battery just to run the motors.

[@Taggart00]

The best electric bus is a Trolley Bus

[@graemew7001]

The Plaxton Leopard at 27 mins in is a Weardale bus, Weardale operate near me in County Durham, we need seats like that because "its grim up North!!" remember 🤣. I did enjoy your reviews especially your rants about flooring and how hideous most were.

[@belyear]

It’s good to recognize good business practices. I used to work for a shady manufacturer in Montreal Canada. I was shocked that he negotiated kick back schemes within earshot of me. I was just a Junior salesman at the time.

[@stephencameron4032]

In Vienna, they have trolley-buses with back-up batteries, so they really can go anywhere.

[@SteamboatWilley]

The trouble with having all your button functions on a touch screen is that if you're driving you have to take your eyes off the road to look at the screen to find the thing you want to press instead of feeling for a tactile physical button, or for instance pulling the sun visor down by hand. So it may look futuristic, but it's ergonomically bad at best and dangerous at worst.

[@markwright3161]

I only realised that when I saw this comment, although it probably blended with the plastic trees to show no dependence on oil and zero emissions, and everything else. The sun visor on a button has got to be one of the worst ideas someone could ever have. When do you usually need to use the sun visor. When turning a corner coming out from behind tall buildings or trees or when the sun suddenly reappears from behind a rain cloud low in the sky, something that happens quickly and needs to be responded to as fast so not to go off the road from not being able to see it. If you can't see the road because of the sun, you won't be able to see a screen either, and there you go, you and a whole load of passengers are in a ditch. Lawrie might have been joking when he said it, but the AEC Regent really was the most innovative vehicle at that show. Guttering to keep you from being dripped on when boarding/alighting is so much better than not making it to work because the driver couldn't lower the sun visor for the sunrise before crashing.

[@Ben_H65_Holzheimer]

Another great video Lawrie mate. You do look quite well in that suit. I agree with most of your conclusions with most of these buses. Growing up on a beef cattle & timber property between 2 country towns myself. Catching the school bus to & from school. Part of life. They are a very comfortable way to travel. I'm with Lawrie on not liking the modern touch screen computer instrument panels too. I too like to have conventional dials & gauges. My dad just bought a new Ford Ranger XLT & showed me it a few weeks ago. It has 2 touch screen panels including the instrument panel. He asked me what I thought of it. I said well..... It's "The Starship Enterprise" in a utility vehicle. I'm not comfortable with fully integrated computers on machines. I prefer mechanical machines. Where the only electronics are modular components with back up redundancy. Not integrated into the machine. Knowing the service life of electronics & computers. They seem to have made us too dependent on them. They can be fantastic when they are working right. Frustration when they are not. They can alternate between the two situations for no logical or rational reason. Call Information technology support. First thing they try is to turn the device off then turn it back on. Reboot. Second option is either a diagnostic or upgrade. Not really a fan of battery electric vehicles either. With all those electronics to drive the buses, the lighting packages within them, the air conditioning or heater which is a huge power draw, then to run the bus on batteries. A lot of auxiliaries running off those batteries. The more auxiliaries running. The shorter the operational range. Also the heavier the passenger load the shorter the operational range. Have trialed battery electric machines in my industry (logging). We are a long way from making an economically viable, versatile, efficient & productive alternative to internal combustion engines. Especially in environments & industries where there is no access to the mains power electrical grid. Necessitating big industrial internal combustion generators on site. Great work Lawrie & the Crew at LMM. Please continue to keep doing what you guys do.

[@darkflame8]

I'm sure the busses are interesting but after seeing George and hearing about the one that growls at people, I'm far more interested in them.

[@cbmsysmobile]

I'm seeing a lot of "features" on these buses that are going to be a major issue when they become older and stop working or break. Go look at the condition of a 10yr old PSV vehicle and see how many things are broken and don't work. Those low glass windows are a complete waste of time. And mirror cams are going to be a major issue when they become unavailable. As for electric hand brakes, they are so redundant it's ridiculous on commercial vehicles. Its an on-off air brake, why replace it with an electric switch and valve which will break?

[@huwdavies6650]

I wish I had camera mirrors on my bus. I wouldn't have to keep getting out of the cab to re adjust the Near Side mirror every time a passenger headbuts it getting on or off the bus because they are looking at their phone rather than where they are going! I mean how can you miss a bright yellow piece of plastic the size of a sheet of A4???

[@lloydpenfold486]

They don't miss it - they clout it with their heads!

[@andrewreynolds4949]

For a bus I do rather like the concept of a camera-mirror, it would weigh slightly less and be less vulnerable to tight spaces and accidental knocks on the mirrors

[@thewiseoldrailroadingbear666]

I have to agree, Huw! The camera mirrors are an absolute boost to my working day! Even the daftest passenger can't walk into them!

[@Klutch58Customs]

Very dapper sir. My favourite busses are: The bus that wrote off my neighbours pink Nissan Duke. The playbus but only at the why bird stop. My least favourite: The Venga bus. CAN bus.

[@TheHatMusic]

The bus that wrote of your neighbours Juke is also my favourite bus. I don't know your neighbour, but I really hate the Juke... I hope their future cars are better.

[@Taggart00]

How many of these buses fell victim to THE CURSE!!!

[@lmm]

All of them

[@QALibrary]

18:40 to answer your question on why everything is electric is... because the government, councils and other stakeholders (god I hate that word) will not give you a contract or extra money via a subsidy if you run an ICE bus on new contracts/routes and you do not want the extra costs of paying for access in a low emission zone. Now add in the biggest cost of running a bus company is the fuel - if they all ICE and replace that with electricity + add it you be able to have solar panels all over the roof of the bus station and you be saving about 75% of your costs... Plus add in less costly maintenance needed and fewer breakdowns and manataince/servicing. QED your accountant loves you and the shareholders love you more! Before anyone says anything these modern-day batteries... they should last 1,000,000+ miles/kms without issues - hence why Lawrie you have all the heating and cooling and battery management systems (big silver boxes) making sure the battery work and last. If you buy an EV nowadays you be needing to buy a new body (if it is made of steel) for the vehicle before the batteries need to be recycled.

[@MattyP62618]

Finally, someone else in the comments section speaking sense...

[@drdewott9154]

I mean here in Denmark at least we're going all in on batteries, heck some operators are about to receive buses with a reliable range above 500km in one charge like the Ebusco 3.0, some Yutong and Golden Dragon buses, and the next gen VDL Citea, which in many cases is plenty for a day's work on a regional bus line. Yutong who you showed are a very popular manufacturer here, with around 40% of the market share. I've ridden some of their buses too, they're good quality. My own municipality is getting its first electric buses next month, however we're getting ours from a manufacturer not even seen here called Xiamen Golden Dragon, which is from China. They're very popular in western Denmark.

[@hughbrown9398]

I agree with your dislike of touch screens for vehicle controls. It might just be because I'm old, but I find it near impossible to operate a touch screen without looking at it, which isn't great whilst driving. Physical buttons, OTOH, after a fairly brief familiarisation, I can do by touch alone.

[@Goldenrod01]

I like the look of that irizar tram bus, especially the wheel spats. Gives it a bit of 30s esque streamlined profile, almost like the old GWR railcars. That AEC looks lovely though, such quality craftsmanship that went into the interior, sad to see when compared to the tacky plastic and laminate affairs of today.

[@fumetsuno5022]

honestly from my 21 years of riding busses either as part of school trips or going to college id rather ride an old Dennis dart in confidence livery rather than anything modern

[@Mrflash222006]

That suit tho, made from the finest polyester only thing missing is the kipper tie and a some gold rings

[@mattevans4377]

I'd say the metro livery bus was meant for Liverpool, since Merseytravel are wanting to rebrand as Metro at some point, however, I don't think it could work in Liverpool. See, you'd just get teenagers breaking into the charging area and unplugging all the buses for a laugh, meaning they wouldn't be charged for their next journey. And I can say that, because I'm from Liverpool.

[@sirrliv]

I have to ask regarding the "Irizar IE Tram": Please tell me that the reps for that vehicle were getting a lot of questions about why they called it a "Tram". Because it's plainly not a "Tram", it's a "Bus". If it runs on rails, it's a Tram. If it runs on rubber tires on a road, it's a Bus. Pretty clear distinction there. So unless it has rail wheels that come down so it can run on rails some of the time, it's not a Tram, it's a Bus. So just call it a Bus, there's no shame in it. Just call it what it is, don't call it what it's not! Honestly, I expected Lawrie to be apoplectic about that. Also have to agree with both sides about the lower windows; they're a cute idea for a different perspective and letting all the little kiddies see out, but they're going to be smashed out quick by people's feet carelessly hitting them and rocks or road debris striking the outside, and they are a boon to voyeurs and perverts.

[@danielgibert]

The idea from Irizar (not to say is a good one) is that the ie-tram runs on dedicated lanes separated from traffic, just like a real tram but with asphalt instead of rails, and with the (theoretical) same traffic rules as trams (Preference over other vehicles, own lane, fixed route…). Yep, it sound absurd, but is what they are aiming to. To convince that this is a tram but more practical because it can circulate elsewhere if needed and much cheaper to built and mantein than a real tram because of lack of rails and electrical lines… Is the typical "best of both world" idea that really is a bus acting like a tram… with none of the benefits of a tram. Irizar is a Basque company and here the Basque Government is trying to sell the idea as the greatest idea of all times. First trials show what is it. Just a bus.

[@Sohave]

You should get a bus, not one of these, but a classical one if you have room for one in your shed. I agree with your view on modern industrial design being devoid of elegance and charm as well as the manufacturers current touch screen fetish.

[@colelepper9381]

Lawrie, are you sure you want a lift like that? I'm pretty sure you'd be better off if you didn't see the under side of the fire engine

[@andrewreynolds4949]

More entertaining for us though!

[@hughbrown9398]

True. Look what happened when the Moggy went up in the air.

[@highpath4776]

The Eversum looks like the Seddon Chloride bus GMPTE used in the late 1970s

[@lmm]

Oh really?

[@888johnmac]

lol , Lawrie drawn to the short bus .. you and me both Sir

[@888johnmac]

and thinking about it .. that AEC is easily the most environmentally friendly vehicle there , it's more than off-set the energy used in it's creation

[@calumvintagebuscoachtrains6297]

Good video not best looking buses should visit motgm and TDTT as I own FD02SFn ex Nottingham transport fleet 561 2002 OPTARE EXCEL 2 at TDTT

[@highpath4776]

range can be extended by fast change battery packs. It should be better to use batteries for buses rather than private cars, but trolleybus pick up in town centres useful

[@lmm]

Trolley buses are a great idea

[@highpath4776]

The London Transport Routemaster had separate front and rear sub frame assemblies (like oversized Minis / Austin 1300 range) supposedly more expensive than conventional chassis but I cannot see why. Did any other manfacturer try similar ( BMMO D10 i dont know ?)

[@lmm]

I'm afraid I don't know

[@monkecinematic5071]

Nice one! Very honest reviews I hope...

[@solarusthelonghaulerrailfa3226]

Hay lawrie you should get the people that thought that your Dennis was a bus 🚌 together with these people and do a old and new gala 😁👍

[@MrBnsftrain]

30:00 Chavdar still makes buses? I thought the Bulgarian bus maker which is commonly referred to as Chav went under in 1999. I am surprised no manufacturer is promoting the trolleybus concept where the batteries can be charged while moving via overhead wires, meaning less time being parked charging. The same concept could also be applied (and has been applied on a small scale) to electric trains

[@hughbrown9398]

I think you may be misinterpreting the use of the word Chav.

[@TransportNut89]

No way! I was there on the Wednesday, saw that new Irizar ie Tram near the entrance

[@thestandardfour0699]

Hmm.. I'll stick to Bristols and Daimlers - they look (and sound ) a little better than a whine of an electric bus!

[@richardsweeney197]

Some of those were very fetching, others... very good tour though, thank You.

[@ThatVoxelBlock]

i went to the nec back when insomnia 59 was on there back in 2016

[@edbridges1164]

IVECO stands for It Vibrates Everything Comes Off Seems a little odd to me that the Iveco seems to have quite a few bits that can "Come Off" in service!

[@BadlanderOutsider]

The vinyl wood effect is very odd. I like wooden floors on coaches and such, but that's typically original edwardian or earlier stock and proper wood. The fake wood lineoleum look just gives me bad renovation flashbacks and makes me wonder if there's a load of it going cheap or such.

[@keithhodgson6489]

So, be honest, do you like wooden floors?

[@lmm]

Wooden ones, yes, plastic ones no 😂

[@eze8970]

Thanks Lawrie, interesting to see what the future looks like. Hope there are still some British owned bus companies?! 🙏🙏

[@SteamboatWilley]

Mellor is British, being owned by Woodall Nicholson. Alexander Dennis is owned by a Canadian firm and Switch mobility (formerly Optare) is owned by Ashok Leyland, based in India.

[@eze8970]

@@SteamboatWilley Thanks for info. 🙂

[@kubbythebusman]

I'm sure I saw a mate of mine. He kept popping into shot lol Yup it's him. Just heard his voice. Lol He's called Xav lol

[@qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm-q6o]

still would prefer some of the new ones for when I was at school

[@18robsmith]

Take George to Southend Victoria to greet the last train on Friday and Saturday nights.....

[@jonrpearce]

My objection to cameras replacing mirrors is that cameras are one way. With a mirror I can see if a driver has seen me, with a camera I have no idea if they've looked in their mirror and seen me or not. I'm a big tech fan, but a simple mirror is vastly superior to a camera and screen.

[@jonrpearce]

Also I've travelled on that AEC, at Wythall. Lovely thing :)

[@NirateGoel]

What did you think of the livery on the bus at 17:30. Myself I'm not a fan of TFI's livery over the Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann liveries it displaces.

[@randomyachtie]

Being branded Tamar Coaches it's technically a Janner Bus.

[@highpath4776]

Anyone remember the Ribble Leyland National with a Battery Pack behind it ?

[@lmm]

I didnt know of that

[@highpath4776]

@@lmm slightly reminding of the producer gas coke traliers of WW2)

[@johnjohannesjuan]

I generally like buses but coaches are just awful. Those in the video bring back bad school trip memories. I always hated the cramped seating even in the 2+2 ones. I'd so much rather go on a train instead.

[@mfbfreak]

3:35 and it's NOT happy about what happened to him. Poor lil' bus...

[@GooseWaffe]

Love the suit! A very different video to normal but one that is still enjoyable and helps us get an insight to the transport industry without having to watch another annoying youtuber. A comment on the cameras, you need to get used to them but from people I know that drive HGV's with them, they wouldn't want to go back, they also help in low light situations (depending on model) but I'd say the main advantage for a bus operator, albeit a small one, is that when passengers disembark they tend to knock or swing on the mirror, at least with these the driver doesn't have to get up to readjust it again. Now, I'm one for tech innovation and modern gizmos, but the touch screen on a commuter vehicle is toooo much and uneeded

[@coffee3million714]

Hi Laurie, very negative in this video weren't you! Just wondering why you say 'huv' instead of 'have'. Just wondering where you are from originally? Thanks

[@patoverend7395]

should have hidden in a quiet corner from the classic car show they'd have never known, did see you but didn't get a chance to say hello

[@andrewreynolds4949]

Those Dennis busses looked rather nice. I really think hybrid power is more the “innovative future” than straight battery for most places. On a different note, there’s a company called Alfadan developing a new large-displacement inline 4-cylinder engine. They have reportedly been working with Mahle on the design optimization. Thought you might find the project interesting.

[@dangerotterisrea]

nice jacket squire!

[@physiocrat7143]

How many of these will go into preservation after their 15 years in service?

[@lmm]

I rather suspect none

[@mumboking]

I'd rather ride one of these buses from the beginning of the video: Arriva 4020 - GN58 BUH (ADL Enviro200) Arriva 4017 - GN58 BUA (ADL Enviro200) First 37034 - YJ06 XKZ (Wright Eclipse Gemini bodied Volvo B7TL) I'd be most happy riding a Plaxton Pointer bodied Dennis Dart though...

[@davidty2006]

The Enviro 200's are litterally everywhere it's impossible to escape them....

[@3mmnon-triang689]

red buttons are for emergency warning device.

[@johndeere7245]

Electric may be the future, but it is a joke for rural areas. Cities, maybe, rural, nope. Never mind any battery electric machine I have looked at have had higher lifetime costs over the comparable diesel alternative, even this God awful emissions loaded crap. I'm in agriculture and so far battery power has been very limited just due to application, but even what can be made battery powered, it's nice, but when you break down lifetime costs, depreciation, and residual value, it comes out a wash, especially secondhand. Costs as much as a new one to refurbish these battery contraptions and no one has figured out how to lower those costs, you cant afford to write off the old and buy new every time within current cost structures and it absolutely ruins a debt/asset ratio.

[@bentullett6068]

Hmm modern buses are a bit like modern DMU/EMU trains very uninspiring. The Wrightbus guys are the ones looking at hydrogen and hydrogen combustion and have been experimenting with the hydrogen combustion engine being used in the JCB diggers as the boss of Wrightbus is the son of the owner of JCB. This hydrogen combustion idea is being looked at for many HGV vehicles especially for long running and quick refilling. Toyota cars know this as well hence why they aren't 100% interested in BEV vehicles. On the same week as this show there was a show in another hall all about garden/grounds machinery called Saltex. Very interesting show as its not just mowers and garden machinery on display but compact tractors, diggers and machines that do other important jobs to keep grass in parks, towns, golf courses and sports fields looking green (except when there is a drought). Probably a more interesting show compared to the bus one.

[@QALibrary]

Lawrie, 5:35 the reason why you have tablets and not physical buttons on anything... that move is down to costs - it saves the manufacturers millions and millions over the lifetime production of the vehicle - want to understand more - lookup Munro live

[@eliyahzayin5469]

There's also a huge "ooh, high tech" factor as well. A bus with the most new bells and whistles is probably going to be seen as more futuristic/next gen than one which uses reliable but 'old' technology. Also, if my experience as an engineering student is anything to go by, there's an unfortunate lack of teaching engineers how to critically select technology; if you're taught that interfaces are touchscreen, then you're probably going to make all interfaces a touchscreen.

[@lmm]

They don't work. They look rubbish and you can't activate by feel and knowing where your buttons are.

[@nick-c]

@@lmm touchscreens in vehicles should be banned IMHO - simply because you have to take your eyes off the road to use them. Vehicle controls should all be tactical.

[@rudolphbondefangerer5513]

Tablets are shit, you can operate a button without looking at it, you can keep your eyes on the road and traffic and still regulate the defroster. You need to look at those terrible things to know where you should push. It must be part of the They's plan to get a lot of us killed off.

[@highpath4776]

Lithium Batteries do run hot. IronBromide MIGHT be better but are less energy dense

[@lmm]

Battery tech is the thing that holds back electric vehicles

[@highpath4776]

@@lmm I am trying to remember the electric buses in London c1908. There were the tilling petrol-electric (better as the engine can run at optimum with a dynamo/motor drive train , and the clarkson (later national - or as well as - steamer ). Harrods etc had electric delivery vehicles at the same time

[@highpath4776]

TBH a battery electric Guy Wulfrainian would have worked. The weight distribution would have been better

[@lmm]

Possibly

[@highpath4776]

Where is the electric routemaster ?

[@lmm]

Didn't see it

[@highpath4776]

@@lmm there wasnt one, it is an idea I have of replacing the drivetrain in a RM with electric ( centre lift wheelchairs have been done in two to make accessible already )

[@SimonAmazingClarke]

H is not for home, its a helipad.. Multi function display screens, its called technology.

[@johnjohannesjuan]

No bendy buses?

[@lmm]

Amazingly not popular anymore

[@johnjohannesjuan]

@@lmm pity. at least in my hometown drivers prefer them over rigid ones.

[@harald.370]

What is it with all those plants on the stands? CO2 compensation or something? LMAO 🤣

[@highpath4776]

Is Long Range services implying that integrated , affordable transport with things like Railways have to be the future ?

[@lmm]

I think what's part of the vision

[@rudolphbondefangerer5513]

All buses should be steam powered. And when you catch someone who tries to evade the ticket, you can just give him a shovel and send him to the coal pile.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

Steam powered busses are actually pretty neat, if not very practical for services nowadays. If you want to be sarcastic, I’d go with a Flintstones bus!

[@physiocrat7143]

You could replace the seats with exercise cycles. When you got off the bus you would get a refund according to how much electricity you had generated. If everyone refuses to turn their pedals, this bus isn't going anywhere.

[@lmm]

That's a great idea

[@highpath4776]

Bring back trolleybuses

[@lmm]

I agree!

[@stephencrossley5417]

Give me an old bus any day

[@lmm]

I'm the same

[@alexthomas637]

😎😎😎😎👍

[@funnyguy3D]

none of these are green

[@andrewreynolds4949]

Lots of them were definitely colored green!

[@funnyguy3D]

@@andrewreynolds4949 you know what i mean you minge.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

@@funnyguy3D That's the purpose of sarcasm, I know what you mean but pretend not to in order to make a joke...

[@markwright3161]

Nothing says 'we're for a zero emissions future' and getting several 8 foot plus plastic trees made for a single event. This event seems full of irony or hypocrisy or whatever you want to call it. Every form of fake material (many probably using plastic to replicate them, which comes from oil, which we're all supposed to know is baaad) in impractical design being pushed as the 'future' and green, and the most innovative bus is show is genuinely a 1930's bus that has been restored. As another comment has mentioned, a genuine electric bus solution is the trolleybus, something that was everywhere in... guess when... the 1930's! Edit; Got the year of the bus wrong. I thought it was newer than it is. I didn't realise that the future was over 100 years old already, and continues to be ignored. Edit 2; Just seen the title. the EuroBus convention was literally how it will be written most of the time, stareing us all in the face. EuroBus Con.

[@lmm]

I particularly hated the plastic wooden flooring.

[@guypenryn7008]

I know you only touched on it but am so glad that you mentioned they are sold as the green way but in truth they are polluting to build and run as they have had to fire up old coal oil and gas power stations just to supply the power needed

[@jameshardy4354]

At leased there was one proper bus among the modern garbage

[@laserhawk64]

Electric vehicles to me are a design-study-in-action of the difference between _green_ and _sustainable_. _Green_ is good for the environment in the immediate sense, but with no real ability to guarantee that in a continual sense long-term. Solar cells are also a good example of this... as well as a good example of how green can _become_ sustainable. Your standard solar photovoltaic panel (i.e., for power generation) is good for about 20yrs of service before it's burnt out and needs replacing. Yes, that is a thing! Right now, the first really popular modern generation of solar panels in use in homes is about to burn out... it'll be a big thing in the next few years. Here in the US, where I live, there's basically neither laws nor infrastructure for dealing with this upcoming problem. (IIRC California has a minimal framework, and if the past is any example, they will get picked on _unmercifilly_ for being somewhat less backwards than the rest of us.) Several European countries have some minor legal guidance, as I recall, but _very_ few have proper regulations and infrastructure in place to deal with the oncoming flood of sundried silicon. This is bad, because silicon, especially in the form used in solar cells, is very toxic. Any _meaningful_ installation of solar cells needs literally tens or even hundreds of thousands of pounds of the stuff -- solar panels aren't hugely efficient, compared to most other forms of power generation. Minimal or nonexistent regulation, like it or not, means that stuff ends up in a landfill. So much for environmental friendliness! Electric vehicles are no better. If you want awful, cheap batteries, you get lead-acid. That's lead and sulphuric acid. Ewww. Nicer batts are generally lithium, although the Prius for many years used a battery that was a hundred million NiMH D cells in a box lol. These are _all_ environmentally awful at best, and "zero emissions" is, quite honestly, something probably come up with by a lawyer -- sure, the vehicles _themselves_ are zero-emission, but the power plants that fill those batteries sure as heck aren't! You want a simple, cheap, effective, AND sustainable way to handle fuel? It's actually not at all hard. Here you go. Grain alcohol, when burnt properly (i.e., not pyrolized), produces _exactly_ two byproducts -- CO2 and water. In every municipality, have a fuel coop. You don't need to denature it; fuel alcohol is min. 150 Proof, at which point it's so potent that trying to drink it will *_literally_*_ land you in the hospital needing skin grafts inside your mouth_ -- it pulls the moisture out of cellular tissue so fast, at that 75%+ purity, that it effectively _boils_ the stuff. You also need dedicated high-pressure stills to make stuff that strong. Use it to power a Stirling engine. Stitlings are external-combustion, mechanically-simple engines and you can make them from literal trash and they will still run. There you go. Infrastructure and PowerPoint... fully sustainable. CO2 buildup concerns? Plant more trees.

[@physiocrat7143]

They had alcohol fuelled buses in Stockholm. The exhaust was evil. Probably aldehydes of some kind to judge from the smell.

[@laserhawk64]

@@physiocrat7143 That, then, will have been either an engine fueled by denatured alcohol -- which is ethanol (grain alcohol) mixed with something noxious and highly toxic in an ill-informed effort to keep people from drinking it (both unnecessary, for the reason given in the previous comment, and wasteful, given that people will drink alcohol mouthwash, if that's all they can get, even knowing that that particular kind of alcohol is toxic) or it was made to run on methanol -- aka wood alcohol -- which is highly toxic, and often was used, historically, as a denaturing agent. Most likely they were running it on methanol, and the fuel provider had diluted it with formaldehyde or something similar as a cost-cutting measure. To be clear, however, I am advocating for neither of those two likely fuels. Ethanol -- grain alcohol -- of sufficient purity to be used as fuel needs no denaturing to be rendered undrinkable, and methanol is not suitable for other reasons -- it produces far more noxious chemicals than ethanol when burnt. As something of an aside, isopropanol -- aka isopropyl or "rubbing" alcohol is likewise unsuitable, and it combusts _extremely_ poorly to boot. Further, being a petroleum derivative, it doesn't even solve the original core issue.

[@physiocrat7143]

@@laserhawk64 Not sure about that. Acetaldehyde (ethanal) is the first oxidation product of ethanol. Given the cocktail of substances produced by internal combustion engines, it is always tricky to produce a clean exhaust containing nothing but carbon dioxide and water. Combustion is explosive and at high temperature.

[@ramseybarber8312]

Lawrie you are talking about a bus while walking around a Coach ,Come on get it RIGHT.

[@chrisskelhorn5727]

DNR? Do Not Resuscitate? 😲

[@DADeathinacan]

I think the thing that annoys me the most about battery electric buses is that they arent trolleybuses, or even able to act as one. At the least, for stuff like bus rapid transit, trolleybuses seem ideal, and for the argument of "oh, but you need wires everywhere to go anywhere", trolleybuses with battery packs exist, and they dont have the efficiency issues of rapid charging... The move away from trolleybuses to battery-electric buses in various cities just feels so backwards to me, particularity if the stated goal is "getting greener vehicles".

[@guidor.4161]

Zero emission?! Where does the electricity come from then?

[@MattyP62618]

The vehicle is zero emissions... Plus if you are being pedantic, there have been days this year where over 80% of the UK's electricity has been generated from renewable sources & that's set to continue...

[@graemew7001]

I bet if you ask the manufacturers you either get a) ignored, b) crap about them planting trees to offset the carbon or c) the pixies bring it. It ignores me too when they think the public are daft.

[@lordbungle6235]

@@MattyP62618 Then why has my electric bill increased?

[@MattyP62618]

@@lordbungle6235 because energy companies are cunts & taking us for a ride

[@lordbungle6235]

@@MattyP62618 Not going to disagree with you on that.

[@enderplant]

Hey Lawrie! Just wondering if you can unban me from your discord server…

[@roberthocking9138]

The sad part is electric vehicles might be zero emissions, but it takes a massive amount of emissions to make the bus and the batteries, so the whole thing is a farce, as well as being ugly as you said.

[@RealTylerBell]

i cant wait til people wake up and realize electric do the same damage as gas or diesel

[@MattyP62618]

Not true

[@graemew7001]

I tell people at work with electric cars (but only if they rave about zero emmisions and saving the planet), "Hey, go to our local Power Station and see your zero emmisions", it's funny to see them go sheepish!!

[@RealTylerBell]

@@MattyP62618 did you do your research? We got to dig more the batteries, ship them more around to make them, And we still use coal and fossil fuel to power them, plus electric cars been around for over 100 years and they were left for hand cranked gas cars, suddenly they came back ? With less range and still take 45 mins to charge when you get your spot

[@MattyP62618]

@@RealTylerBell yes I did do my research, I can't be arsed to write a long blog post of a reply but this video has all the facts. Also, re how they are charged, the UK can generate 80% renewable capacity & those numbers are only increasing, as well as new methods being employed to extract lithium, which is cleaner & uses 10x less space. Yes EV's are technically 100 years old, but modern formations of the technology is still in its infancy & it's already far superior to ICE's kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJqahml5n8Rll6s

[@RealTylerBell]

@@MattyP62618 right if you did actual research they are worst for us, more digging up toxic for the environment, and more shipping