What goes wrong with my Rider Ericson Beta Hot Air Engine Review?

[@derekp2674]

Laurie, thank you so much for beta testing that beta engine. I'll get my coat...

[@RosalindCross-t7k]

We have a running Rider Ericsson engine near us at High Beeches Gardens in Sussex. Still pumping water in its original location from new.

[@lmm]

Oh really? I want to see that

[@RosalindCross-t7k]

​@@lmmI had a look at my photos and it looks like this engine is more of a Rider than an Ericsson 🙂. It is described as an "improved Rider Ericsson" built in the late 1800s by Hayward Tyler & Co. It has two cylinders 90 degrees out of phase rather than the combined cylinder of your model. Runs nicely on a wood fire. Maintained by the Sussex Engine and Associated Machinery Society. (SEAMS)

[@Skoda130]

How is this not a Stirling engine, cycle-wise?

[@lmm]

It's a hot engine, but not all hot air engines are Stirling Engines

[@Skoda130]

@@lmm I know, but any closed cycle hot air engine with a displacer for sure is. It's not a Manson-cycle engine, or an open Ericsson-cycle engine. This is a Stirling cycle engine in Beta configuration.

[@fermitupoupon1754]

For some reason I now want one about the size of a small fridge. So the engine itself would be powerful enough to drive a small fan to blow the heat from the engine into the room as a sort of needlessly complicated wood fired heater kind of thing.

[@jamesmchenry4708]

Tamiya threadlocker would probably also help at least with the screws, I'd use that over full-strength Loctite, though I guess Blue Loctite might not be overkill... That said, Maybe wouldn't help so much with the butane valve though. To be fair, you're right, you _shouldn't_ have to take a fully assembled model and take out all the screws and put chemical threadlock on them to hold them in place...and the valve not being gastight is a _big_ problem.

[@Demo12345]

I'm looking at this and yes, they should add an adjustable governor. It can be like the governor in a hand crank Victrola where it's three weights, some flat springs, a shaft, a metal disc with a sleeve in the middle, and an arm with an oiled leather pad on it. What happens (if you've ever seen one of these governors) is the weights are attached to the flat springs and as it spins up they are forced outwards, this pulls the disc down the shaft and the oiled leather pad keeps it from going any farther. With a setup like this, you can have a simple little lever for adjusting your speed, that way you can set your speed without any tools and it can be adjusted on a whim and it will hold that speed wherever you set it.

[@skankingiant]

I have the Denny version (listed as Rider Ericsson RO2) which i got off ebay for about £100 all in. Its a nice unit and will run quite slow with the regilator turned right down. I too have had the gas valve issue but a bit of plumber tape sorted that. Main issue for me is the water ways, if its more than a ground out channel, are not big enough to effectively keep the cold end cold. Apart from that I think its great, though its nothing like my 1/4 scale Rider or full size Robinson B4.

[@waynewheaton6244]

I bought one at the special $199 price. I found the burner already set so I oiled it a bit and....found the butane control to be verrrry touchy. I found a jet flame torch is the only way to get it lit on the first try. It runs well but the water pump is a problem. No luck at all with priming so I added a bit of steam oil in the priming cup and it pumped from the water reservoir as it should. The oil wound up in the water tank. Later on, I tried just water and it sort of pumped. I also found that if it is pumping and then you stop the engine for a few minutes it won't pump after you restart it. So, the pump is erratic (only worked once with just water), but the engine is a runner. I hope my butane tank does not start to leak. Oh, the shipping was pricey.

[@lmm]

That sounds disappointing. Have you got it to run in a more controlled manner than I?

[@waynewheaton6244]

@@lmm So, with it running, I used a hypodermic needle with silicone tubing at the end to fill (and keep filling) the primer cup. When water started to pump through, instead of trying to get that tiny cap threaded into the primer cup I took a bit of the silicone tubing (with one end flame sealed) and stuck it on the priming cup. VERRRRRY easy. That is my trick and advice. Works for me.

[@trevorbax9379]

Very informative educational and entertaining thank you.

[@davidbailey533]

Cool vid mate just finished watching u on secrets of the london underground and am amazed at your knowledge

[@12345678989814]

They used them to run fans as well the Sterling fans they worked quite well for things like that

[@DumbIShallBe]

They were also used in submarines

[@BNETT21]

You could use different value resistors across the motor polls to control how much resistance it applies. Similar to regenerative braking. You will need to use resistors with a high enough current rating as to not blow them up though. Maybe a 120/240V light dimmer knob would do the trick nicely. Proof of concept would be to put a piece of metal across the terminals while the engine is running and it will brake pretty hard.

[@eze8970]

Thanks Lawrie! 🙏🙏

[@tamarmolerick3814]

Nice video, good honest review.

[@anythingoldmechanical]

Why didn't you put a led across the terminals of the motor? Im sure that if you used a 3v one, and had the polarity the right way, it would of illuminated it.

[@kevinbeverly4086]

That is a really cool model.

[@joelsoncdma]

Hi, i like! Observation; Maybe the pump is not work well...a lot rotation and little water flow

[@dieselbushcraft1299]

I hear there is plenty hot air down at Westminster and I think this great little engine will probably work harder than some down there 😂

[@pauls5745]

love it! such a cute little engine.

[@lmm]

It is, but flawed sadly

[@carltrushell4338]

I saw you on the new series of secrets of the London underground about the steam trains it was awsome instantly recognised you

[@lmm]

Was great fun filming that

[@Plokman040]

Lawrie look up Mark Found's Garden Railway please, has a interview with Richard Ince and he had a model worked on the system your's does but it is a locomotive model and two cylinder. But it wasn't Sterling it was hot air.

[@solarusthelonghaulerrailfa3226]

Lawrie and fire 🔥 oh how well does it go 😊

[@Lee.gRC27]

Could a ball governor or something like it be incorporated with it, or does it not produce enough torque to warrant it?, Definitely going keep an eye for one of these little engines

[@lmm]

A Govener would be a great idea, but they're very hard to throttle, you'd have to limit the heat going in. I wonder if by replacing the burner or using a less carbon rich fuel you could get more control.

[@bentullett6068]

I keep looking at these little steam engines from Stirling kit. Are you tempted on buying one of the internal combustion engine models they do as there are some interesting ones they sell including a model V8 engine.

[@jonathanbeale3978]

LAWRIE IS A TV STAR. Yesterday channel talking about underground steam tube trains.

[@lmm]

I'm an expert apparently!

[@bentullett6068]

I missed that. I will have to catch up on the series.

[@jonathanbeale3978]

@@lmmI know. Well done.

[@BuggsK100RS]

Have you seen the Steam Engine Simulator that is currently Free on steam? its a rather nice thing to mess with.

[@Boele17]

Wow, sehr schönes Modell. 💯👍

[@Reddotzebra]

I'm guessing the torque problem comes from air being compressible?

[@jimbarchuk]

Doesn't need a pulley. The crowned wheel belt drive worked great with the rubber band.

[@lmm]

That's the clever editing 😂

[@owainlloyddavies7107]

It'd very very interesting if LMM was able to run something that used a steam turbine, like a turbomotive

[@RichsRidesandRestorations]

The Curse Is Real™️ Thanks for a fascinating and honest review!

[@gimbrol]

Lawrie, have you ever heard of Mamod traction engines? they're real great fun!

[@lmm]

My Wilesco has featured before, and I think my Te1 as well!

[@gimbrol]

@@lmm i have a te1 too, i should probably watch those videos some time, thanks for telling me

[@bentullett6068]

Mamod have been producing great model stationery steam engines and model steam motor vehicles for ages. They also now do a narrow gauge steam locomotive which is the newest addition being brought out to the mamod range around 2008.

[@heliobobat381]

Glad we can all enjoy this while the world is being stolen from us.

[@Arkay315]

The engine is very enginey

[@laserhawk64]

Torque times speed equals a constant, Lawrie. You should know that, you work with steam locomotives all day. Sure, the efficiency of that hot air engine isn't anything to write home about, but were you to design and build one that actually was meant to do work, rather than just look like an amusing desk toy, a proper gearbox would go a long way to make it practical. Arguably, you could do the same with that desk toy model, but you'd have your work cut out for you as far as friction goes -- you'd need good bearings at least, for sure, and you'd probably have to absolutely drown it in oil. (Pity about the model's apparent build quality as well.) Something that small isn't going to charge an iPhone... a _few_ LEDs might be doable, though, with a proper transmission of some sort. Worth noting, as efficiency and scaling both go... the engines you're playing with are scale models, at best, of something a bit more like the gas/petrol engines in the earliest horseless carriages. The sort of engine in your Mini, or even in that lovely little Robin, those are _Star Trek_ compared to this level of tech. Even what's in a Model T Ford is considerably more advanced. Engines scale well, as a general rule, but you have to know how to do it, and your materials have to be up to snuff as well. It's just a matter of engineering over time, really, and that hasn't been done yet. (Why? Greed. Robert Stirling was made all sorts of promises if he was willing to sell out to the early oil barons -- I forget now exactly whom it was wound up with the paperwork -- but regardless, as soon as it was theirs, they promptly sat on it just as hard as they could. It wasn't till Dean Kamen, the guy who invented that laughable Segway thing, bought the patent off... I think it was Philips who owned it at that point... and basically said, have at it boys it's open season on Stirlings now, that it actually got popular again. According to Wikipedia, there were some rather notable experiments in the 1970s and 1980s that did prove Stirlings able to run a vehicle, although both startup and acceleration/deceleration response were a bit slow. One imagines that, with time and experimentation, both of these problems could be at least partially overcome... likely moreso the latter than the former (look at the Stanley Steamer car, for example... acceleration and braking are quite good, but it takes twenty minutes to fire!). As for simplicity, if that's your thing, look into the thermoacoustic engine. Bit of a weird one, that, but if you ever wondered how to make an alternator with a single coil and one moving part, it's a thermoacoustic engine with a magnetic neodymium slug for a piston. Works like those shake-n-bake torch lights you can buy. I hear NASA is looking at designs based on that for running satellites, no less... there's also the Manson engine, but oy, the machining requirements on that piston, I tell you what.

[@MisterOcclusion]

Lovely. I have a similar, .less sophisticated version

[@lmm]

I bet it works better too!

[@zagreus101]

$470??! Flippin' 'eck

[@lmm]

Yes... And check watch till the end

[@Mr.NeilOfficial]

first (no hate required)

[@martinsmith3555]

If you think all Stirling engines are tiny, you need to talk to the Swedish Navy. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland-class_submarine