Laying Worker EPIC SAGA - PART 1

Remember that old Balboa double medium walk away split? The one where I found that weird mutant bee I thought was a queen? Well, I don't think that was actually a queen. I think we have a laying worker situation. Here is my solution...
This is a multi part series. I'll have the first three parts up this week.
LAYING WORKER PART TWO:
• Laying Worker Fixed! (...
Thank you for watching and commenting!!
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[@HunterAlakai]

This is like the strangest reality show I have ever taken in interest in. Great Vid!!

[@DonovanCYoung]

IKR?

[@racheldobbs2028]

Oh, it's much more superior to those silly reality shows :)

[@Casey_Ezaziel]

It's the best reality TV show. Drama, action, cursewords ;) bears flowers

[@mrprosale]

..I had bees a long time ago, in NZ. Once I lost a queen too, and the workers actually made several queen cells and transferred eggs from the "old" queen and raised those... no problems. The first queen got out and they had a new queen.. I removed the other queen cells and used them in another hive.. worked ok. The trick when putting in a new queen is to make a "bottomless" cage with the new queen in it, and press onto existing sealed brood with no other bees on there. Just leave enough space for the queen to move around, put a bit of honey in it too. The brood hatches and "acclimatises" the new queen... 3 days worked for them and the hive accepted the new queen, and I removed the cage. I re-queened 2 hives successfully that way.. hope that helps, you are doing a great job! Love your farm and homestead and all of that :-)

[@WhiTiger]

Sounds like a new soap opera in the making, The Bold and the Beeutiful, These are the Days of our Hives, As the Thorax Turns, All Balboa's Children, Athol 90210. . . Bees, Six Weeks to Live.

[@benjamindonaldson3506]

I haven’t even watched yet and you get a thumbs up from me. Been waiting too long for the next update.

[@scottrobbins9320]

1 in 1000 bees are a laying worker. So in a normal hive you can have between 15-60 laying workers. However the queens presence suppresses them from their sent being accepted as the queen. I really appreciate the date. Helps with understanding timeline.

[@jhonbarkhuijsen2535]

Well. Thats a cliffhanger. Cant wait till part 2. Greatings from the netherland. 👍🏽

[@Digger927]

Well, this is already a done experiment by now, I'll anxiously await to see what happens. It was fun watching you work through figuring out this issue and you were right in your train of thought about why they weren't attracted to the new queen. Two issues I saw were: 1. No brood for the queen in the box you set up. 2. The bees you borrowed from the donor hive didn't realize they were queenless and so weren't likely to accept a new queen. If you were going to take this approach, I'd have suggested taking brood frames, nurse bees and workers, putting them in that box and closing them up for a day and then give them that new queen and do it all off the laying worker hive. Give them a day or two and after the new queen is laying then trying to integrate the colonies (the laying workers and the new split). Here's an option if you ever have this issue again: I've had success taking a frame of brood with a laying queen and all the bees on it from a strong hive and placing it in the laying worker hive. You have to take the frame and place it so the side she's on is facing a wall of the hive. The workers and attendants with her on the frame work as a shield for her until her scent fills the hive. This is the only way I've ever had success saving a laying worker hive. You already had a new queen to put in the new queenless colony the old one came from so both issues would have been solved. It should be noted its not 100% and you risk a good laying queen and obviously you risk a new queen at introduction in the new queenless colony. I have had decent luck with it though. Comments saying dump out the old workers aren't wrong either...Like I always say there often isn't a right or wrong just different ways of doing things.

[@vinofarm]

Re your issues: 1. I specifically avoided brood so as not to further complicate the pheromone deal. My thought was to give her a blank slate (empty pulled comb) and resources (nectar and pollen frames). I thought brood frames would make things awkward. 2. I figured the shaken bees would be disoriented and locked in that nuc for 2 days. With no place to go and a brand new queen, I thought they'd make it work. Also, when I put the queen cage down the fanning was insane, so I figured they were fine. You will see tomorrow! Everything in my plan worked perfectly right up until the end. I'm actually in a situation right now. I thought I'd be wrapping up the series with episode three, but now I'm at present day and hit a speedbump. You'll see what happens tomorrow and then episode three is going to be tech support time. I need advice! Stay tuned.

[@Digger927]

Half the fun with bees is the constant drama, learning from experience and problem solving. I'm not leaving my desktop until you post that next !*%#* video! LOL.

[@rogierdikkes]

Had laying workers this year, they were queenless for a couple of weeks and very fierce and hostile. Good that your bees are relaxed. We got all stung like crazy. I asked if bees move eggs around, every mentor i talked to so far said they believed they don't move eggs around. About the queenless hive: eventually moved the hive 100meters away, shaked all the bees out on the floor and let them fly back. The laying workers stay behind and cannot make it back.

[@hyfy-tr2jy]

The whole "laying worker cannot fly back" has never been proven and when you think about it, a honeybee with a full load of nectar has no problem flying so a laying worker shouldn't have an issue flying with some eggs in her abdomen.

[@davidsachs4883]

It wouldn’t be the weight of the eggs making her unable to fly (assuming the first commentator is correct). When they start laying they becomes more queenlike. Before swarming a queen stops laying and slims down. Wouldn’t a laying queen fatten up and let her flight muscles entropy particularly if the hive is dying.

[@hyfy-tr2jy]

If a worker became more "queen like" you would be able to spot her in the hive which as far as anyone I have ever talked to say is impossible to tell the difference between a laying worker and a regular worker. As I stated the whole "laying worker can't fly" has no basis in proof and is simply a "what if" idea with no research or facts to prove it. Maybe someone should shake out a colony into a large plastic tub and come back to it later and see if any bees are left that cant fly, are alive, and show signs of developed eggs internally. It would be nice to actually put this "old beekeepers tale" to rest one way or the other

[@JBEESHoneyJoelBrutcher]

I'm an nubee, but from reading and watching, the point of moving is the laying workers are nurse bees that have never been out of the hive, therefore don't know where it is. The foragers will return, the young nurse bees left behind. Nothing to do with not being able to fly. Odds are you've removed the laying workers and can "start over" with new queen and forage bees.

[@jussitaipale3671]

I had similar situation last summer, and tried to do same way, a little nuc on hive, with mosquito net to prevent movement to nut, but letting phrenomes through. Even queen was accepted, it was dead after 2 week, and they started to do their own queen, from eggs new queen had laid. Next time I am going to take Garret Johnson's advise, and just empty the hive. Thanks for Vinofarm for outstanding quality vids, and help and advises from experienced beekeepers.

[@afowler13]

the editing in these videos is *so* good.

[@justinmk79]

Best way I have found to fix a laying worker problem is to drop a queen cell in. The bees will take to the cell better then a new queen.

[@davidsachs4883]

Unless I misheard he put a queen cell in and multiple eggs were laid in it.

[@justinmk79]

David Sachs no he just put in a frame of eggs.

[@vinofarm]

Do you mean like a cut out swarm cell or something? I'm not breeding so I have no cells on hand ready to go.

[@justinmk79]

Vino Farm if I need queen cells I just make a split. Let them make cells and then cut them out and put them where I need them. But you can’t cut out a queen cell if it’s on plastic foundation. But you can do the same thing just move the frame with the queen cells over to the working worker hive. But seeing as this was way back in July hopefully you got it sorted. Looking forward to the next video.

[@Casey_Ezaziel]

Jim my friend! Well done! You should never feel bad about what you have chosen to do. It's admirable!

[@tillerbeez6575]

I too have queen less hive. My advantage is I've not seen any laying workers. I put my new queen between brood frames for 2 days. Check to make sure they weren't try to kill her and set her free. I will be checking tomorrow to see if she is laying eggs. Your 2yrs ahead of me in bee keeping.

[@2Lesbians1Baby]

We missed you!!!!

[@normjacques6853]

Most bizarre thing I've seen so far!! Can't wait for Part 2! In the immortal words of Mr. Spock, "Fascinating!"

[@vinofarm]

Always something going on with these bees.

[@TheOregonOutlaw]

....the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the ONE! ..::::wink::::..

[@normjacques6853]

_\\// :-)

[@TheOregonOutlaw]

Live Long & Prosper

[@normjacques6853]

Which, I think, is what we'd like to see Jim's bees do! :-)

[@HavootuMusic]

Oh my God how are you going to just leave us in suspense like that so mean LOL. Now this is a reality show I can get behind LOL

[@vinofarm]

I got you tomorrow! Stay tuned.

[@mtnmyke]

Key item you need here is a push in cage. You set the queen free underneath where she can lay but the bees can't get to her. Once she starts laying she released very strong pheromones which sets the hive straight. A non laying queen, even overnight, loses that ability. I usually push them in over some capped brood, open cells, and honey, easily taken from another hive. The emerging bees immediately accept her and further increases acceptance. Otherwise, I would have shaken them all out and made a split with that queen from another hive.

[@heathersfeatherfarm3245]

I have been watching your videos now for a couple weeks after getting interested in bee keeping. At first I had the idea of the flow hive but now with more information I feel it's just impractical as you say you still need to work the bees and I cant shell out $800 everytime I need a new hive. I love your videos, you are very enthusiastic,entertaining, and most of all knowledgeable plus you have some pretty damn good editing skills! I love the extra info that pops up on the videos. I want to start 2 hives of my own maybe next year. Please keep up the videos. You're awesome! Cant wait too see what happens with this conundrum.

[@0naallan429]

You are truly the wealthiest man I have ever witnessed. I'm not talking about Money, you are actually living, trying new things seeing and experiencing the wonder and the beauty of nature and family. It's true beautiful . Its how God hand intended it for all of his children..

[@JohnP538]

Your only mistake was not removing all the laying worker's frames and just shaking the bees into the box. Some keepers freeze them for 24 hours and reintroduce them, others leave them in the yard to get robbed out.

[@alvincannon73]

Love the videos, thanks for all the hard work .. enjoying watching and learning from Ireland ... keep 'em coming !!!

[@MistressofWu]

Been Missing you!! So glad to see a video, but what a cliffhanger! I want to say, whether it works or not, the meshed off hive was such a neat attempted idea! I look forward to tomorrow's vid! Much love!

[@AndrewRMillar]

I've had laying workers twice, it's a real pain. The only sure way to save the have is going to cost a lot of frames of brood from other hives. When you add open brood to the hive for long enough the laying workers will eventually die and the hive will realize it is queen less and make a queen from the eggs you are continually adding to the hive. Dumping the bees about 10-20 meters away from your apiary and remove the hive from the location it was in will cause the bees to move into other hives so you don't lose the bees. Personally I think that is the best option. The amount of open broodframes you will need for the other option is also enough for creating an entirely new colony.

[@MartellaNutella]

Was missing my bee videos!

[@davidsachs4883]

I also love “a Canadian beekeepers blog” You might give that channel a try

[@MmmmmmCoffee]

Thanks for the update! I have been hanging out for this! I hope you are all well, and there isn't anything drastic behind the slower updates!

[@vinofarm]

Everything is great aside from this drama. Hahaha...

[@MmmmmmCoffee]

Very happy to hear! In that case, hurry up! The suspense is doing my head in! 😂

[@garrettjohnsonyt]

Well now I feel pretty bad. I told you, back on July 8 when you first spotted this "mutant queen" that you had a bad queen and not a laying worker. Clearly it was a laying worker. :/ To be fair, I didn't have the data point of multiple eggs laid into the cells, or eggs along the sides of the cells because the worker can't reach the bottom. But visual inspection of that "queen" should've indicated it wasn't one, and you did post video of her. The problem with just adding a frame of brood is that doesn't solve your laying worker problem. The workers' ovaries are suppressed by a pheromone secreted by the **queen** herself, called "queen mandibular pheromone". Lacking that pheromone, some workers start developing ovaries and laying eggs. The pheromone produced by open brood doesn't do this. It binds the workers to the hive, and tells them they've got a queen, (which sometimes results in killing introduced queens). This is supposed to be the death-spasm of a hive: Barf up a couple of thousand drones with the last of the hive's resources and spread their genetics across the land in the one way they have left. I am not sanguine about this colony's prospects. In light of the newly revealed evidence I would guess that the hive is torporous because all the bees you see in there are old. They can't even be bothered to respond to an introduced queen! The only reason they're there at all is because there are no young bees to act as nurse bees. Also, as a side note that queen looks none-too-healthy as well. How long has she been stuck in that cage? Where are her attendants? Every day a queen goes without laying is a day her body shrinks and atrophies. It's reason #15 why commercially purchased bees are often inferior to local survivors. The colony might be indifferent to the new queen because her pheromones aren't all that impressive at this point. Your slow-release introduction isn't a terrible idea, though I wouldn't have bothered. Not because this won't work -- it might -- but because at a certain point you're simply robbing resources from your strong hives to support a weak one. I would've done the opposite: Shake out the entire struggling colony in front of your other hives, close up the old box, and take it home with you. You can freeze the frames and then lay them out in front of the old hives the next day and you end up left with a nice big pile of brood- and honey-comb that you sorely needed at times this year. The old workers will find a new hive to go into -- Or not. Who cares? They're too old to be alive by the time winter rolls around anyway -- and you are no longer in the business of supporting a weak hive. Alternatively you could've introduced the queen via a push-in cage, covering a large section of empty broodcomb (and also some honey, just a little bit will do) and let her build up that QMP and resolve your worker issue. Still none of my comments matter, much. You did all this weeks ago. So now you're running a fun little experiment, and I'm curious what you're going to discover.

[@vinofarm]

That last line... Ha ha. The queen came from a local breeder. She was new this spring and was taken from an active hive THAT day. She had no attendants because I went over to the breeder 5 miles away who put her right in the cage and I took her home. So I know the queen was OK. I had never thought about your "death spasm" description. That's very interesting. It makes a lot of sense. Had I had that in my mind, I may have thought about the whole situation differently. Like you said, this all took place already, so a lot of these comments are moot. However, I am STILL wrapping up the final part of the video. I was hoping to shoot it today, but we're getting awful rain. Part two tomorrow will take you up to present day. I really appreciate your comments!

[@garrettjohnsonyt]

Looking forward to it. :D

[@mrcshoneybees]

Wow Great info guys.

[@BESHYSBEES]

@@vinofarm have to agree with garret johnson as an apiarist in australia i would have used his method too. You should learn to graft your own queens, take larvae from your strongest hive, looking for traits of behavior like hygiene, temperament, laying pattern etc etc requeening your apiary every year or second year ensuring your genetics are of the best quality

[@manbearpig5907]

@garrett Whoa, Ease up on the vocabulary Merriam Webster. JK lol Couldn't resist after reading your post 👍

[@mrflapdaddy]

Dammit Vino. I'm ready to Binge Watch FrankenHive and now u are telling me I gotta wait???

[@vinofarm]

Episode Two is tomorrow. Episode Three should be by Thursday. Still working on Three. I hit a storyline speedbump today.

[@artilna9894]

these bees a free citizens they don't care if they got a queen XD

[@PaulOtis]

Jim, why did you not try shaking the bees off the combs, away from the hive? I hope your plan works out though. Good Luck!

[@vinofarm]

The shaking idea never made sense to me. The logic of "The laying worker won't fly back" seems false. What would stop a laying worker from flying?

[@Smh1821]

@@vinofarm i know this is late so you might already know but the idea is the laying worker is a nurse bee who has never left so she won't know where to go.

[@SimonusDaStrega]

Hello mr. i know that this comment is too late. you have not queen, but mother of drones. it is an ordinary worker bee, who, after orphaning the swarm, begins to lay eggs. unfortunately they are drones eggs. you should pour out a whole swarm of minimum 30 feet from the hive. the bees will come back. mother of drone, no. then you can give a new queen or a frame with eggs from other hive. Sorry for my English. Im not talking in English. Im from Poland.

[@Kopsu87]

Wow.. beekeeping is super complicated.

[@vinofarm]

The human makes it complicated.

[@jackmeriustacktheritrix]

Right? Super interesting though if i'm honest, even though i don't understand what 90% of the terminology means.

[@harmonjosephd]

It's too late. I had this problem last year. Shake the bees out and walk away. It's hard to get laying workers to accept a new queen. Usually it's more than 1. You put a queen in there and they will kill her!

[@vt8632]

Devonte Harmon Joseph If there a queen cells with egg in royal jelly. Remove it. graft and place the 6day egg from good laying queen. If they wont clean it up you will have good queen after mating flight. They will kill laying workers.

[@adamtate6030]

no they wont queen wont have chance u really need to do some reading u dont have a clue

[@jman414999]

this was done last month dont think thats to late.

[@SerratedPVP]

If it was too late they would've been biting at the screen and stinging at her. They weren't excited when she was introduced her which is a good sign; she was already accepted and was old news to the bees, hence the lack of excitement.

[@johnnyleach7152]

i've found adding a frame of open brood per week for 3 or 4 weeks will stop this and they will produce a queen of their own. open brood pheromone shuts down worker ovaries, not queen pheromone. In my opinion you should shake out hive and freeze the frames and then use them and the open brood frames to make 3 or 4 splits. better use of resources.

[@moppenaltwire4890]

i have heard from my friend in Norway who is a beekeeper, that the best thing you can do if you have a laying worker, is to take the frame like 20 meters away or so, and just shake them off, he said that the normal worker bee will come back in the hive and the laying worker will not be able to fly back,,,, and then you can lay in a queen og just some eggs and larvae :) love your channel BTW :)

[@vinofarm]

I have heard this a million times, but there is nothing that would stop a laying worker from flying. It just seems like a myth to me, so I didn't try it.

[@moppenaltwire4890]

uhm ok, he has done this for 40 + years :P it works for him

[@tedmcfall642]

Your Norway friend is correct. The idea is is that the laying workers are young nurse bees who've never been outside the hive. The laying workers will probably not find their way back into the hive.

[@natserog]

Laying Workers Solution The correct test answer is use a newspaper combine with a strong queenright colony. The practical response is shake 'em out and put the equipment away. Several things to understand: You aren't "saving the colony" - the genetics are lost; your workers are over the hill and in the last half of their life (all the brood was hatched weeks ago); drones are not competetive in a DCA(Drone Congregation Area) the lack of young replacement bees have allowed any diseases to easily become an issue; comb is pockmarked with drone cells (this tends to haunt you as future queens will lay into the available pattern). I shake them out in another yard as I don't like them drifting into a nuc.

[@thermoblu1]

Shake all the bees out put queen excluder between the bottom board and brood chamber... Then add inner cover and top no other entrances let them fly back to the hive and realize they are queenless after a few hours add the new queen

[@vinofarm]

Well, this isn't what I did. But I'll consider it next time.

[@EvoinOZ]

This is great advice. I did this to solve a laying worker problem and it worked great.

[@TonyLeach-airguntech]

can't get my head around what you are advising here, are you saying put queen excluder under the brood frames, i take it this is to stop the queen leaving?

[@thermoblu1]

Vino Farm kinda had a feeling it wasn't going to go exactly how you wanted...but that's how the bee flies...or cookie crumbles... Some bees they don't want to have a queen they just want to watch the hive burn lol stole that from Batman I had a hive I could never re queen

[@thermoblu1]

Tony Leach no to stop the laying worker and or a mutant queen from coming back into the hive after shaking the whole hive out

[@jeffbragg1735]

Move a very strong hive during the hottest part of the day and put that one in its place. Foragers from the strong hive will kill the laying workers, swap the hives back or add your new queen after a day.

[@miyka]

Little Finger fooled us all again!

[@vinofarm]

I've still never seen House of Thorns.

[@silent8ch977]

Vino Farm Lol... maybe House of Thorns will be the Game of Thrones spin off!!

[@jeffreys9667]

Jim, The use of a push in cage, in this case about a 3x5 or 4x6 if you have the room, would work great. It gives the queen area to lay, the workers will feed her through the screen and she can stay in it for 2 weeks if needed. It works even better if you have a partial frame of emerging brood to capture under the cage, when the emerge the will accept her immediately as their own and tend to her. After a week or two you just remove the cage and life goes on as normal.

[@vinofarm]

Everything was OK with what I did here, but I ran into a problem afterwards. (You'll see tomorrow.) I am exploring the push-in cage concept for next time.

[@honeyhobbits8868]

That seems like a good solution. Another queen introduction method is call a push in cage. Michel Palmer was the first person I have seen swing them on youtube. I use push in cages exclusively now. The cool part is the queen can start laying right away so I think it would be a good solution for your laying workers.

[@vinofarm]

I didn't go that route, but I may try it some day. Seems like a good thing to try.

[@silent8ch977]

Oh man... I dealt with my first laying worker hive this year as well. Finally queenright and now just trying to get them built up for winter. Looking forward to seeing the conclusion!

[@vinofarm]

How did you fix it?

[@silent8ch977]

Vino Farm I made a 6X6X1” introduction cage and pushed it into a corner of a frame with a little honey and the rest open for her to start laying. gave her 24 hours to get her pheromones going then lefter the cage... held my breath for 10 minutes waiting to see if this was going to work while she did the whole submissive thing then spent the next 30 minutes watching her pipe and lay all through the frame. I got great video of it showing what an accepted queen looks like. It was excruciating and absolutely magical!! :) I’m in MA also

[@elkewheeler]

This is fascinating

[@natserog]

great video!! thanks....laying workers is a tough one

[@mosquitoswat1]

You are an excellent teacher!

[@bryanroberts]

I had the exact same issue with a laying worker hive. The behavior was the same towards a caged queen also.. After 3 days without eating thru the candy I manually released the queen. I came back two days later and they had killed her. I ended up shaking out the hive onto the ground. I hope you have great results with this method.

[@bluzervic]

Interesting, never seen that method before, although it looks similar to a snellgrove. Looking forward to see how this works.

[@hyfy-tr2jy]

If you use the OTS Queen Rearing protocol they say that any hive that starts having a laying worker you should just scrap the colony. It is better to use a your queen to start a new colony from scratch using the capped brood from the other hives. Literally kill off every bee in this hive and start over. I know it is hard to do this, but your energy, money and investment are better off to just use that new queen to start a brand new colony.

[@vinofarm]

I disagree with just scrapping the colony... but I'm also trying to learn. If I just did what every old beekeeper told me to do I'd never understand why. I need to go through the motions and try different solutions and figure things out. By documenting my trials and errors, I hope to help others like me. I'm not wasting time. I'm learning and sharing what I learn. If, in the end, I come to the same conclusion you did, that's fine. I learned along the way. If I come up with something different, we all learn.

[@hyfy-tr2jy]

Thumbs up on the "research" angle. Learning is always important and should never go unappreciated. I hope the best for your colony!

[@vinofarm]

I don't mean to discourage comments or advice. I appreciate all input. I'm just giving you my thoughts. Thank you for watching!

[@dalgrim]

Bee drama! Thanks for the updates.

[@fredfable5655]

Interesting mystery....waiting for part II...

[@chrisblester37]

Iv seen guys running two queens doing this they get use to each other and don't kill the other queen 3 queen extractors to keep them apart at first

[@rosam.1488]

Thi is much better than GOT. Greetings from Arequipa, Peru.

[@chadmiller4678]

First hive of gay bees now I have seen it all lol

[@johnabbottphotography]

Epic miniseries: raiders of the lost drone?

[@jman414999]

man what a story looking forward to part dou.

[@matthewgartner5339]

1 frame might not fix the laying worker try 3 frames after shaking out the whole hive. The pheromone from 3 frames is much greater than 1.

[@billiamc1969]

Laying worker can be remedied by adding a ripe queen cell on a frame with open brood...the pheromones from the worker brood and cell will correct it once she emerges it will correct the colony. I've tried this several times with success. If you are using mite control VSH is useless...

[@sdcoinshooter]

Stupid question: Why does introducing smoke in to the hive CALM the bees? If I saw smoke in my home I would get pretty agitated!

[@minedmineralsbycliff1226]

Laying worker hives rarely accept new Queens. You need.to combine that hive with another with newspaper or shake all the bees out of.that hive and put the Queen in . Hopefully the laying workers stay out of the give where you shook them.

[@clergyurge]

Pheromones are spread by touch, not airborne. After the shaken bees accept her do the paper blend and watch the excitement spread.

[@vinofarm]

I've since learned this... Stay tuned.

[@trixiebelton4604]

Not a beekeeper myself, but other videos I’be watched where the person kept bees for a long time, involved shaking all the bees out some distance from the hive, I don’t remember what they did next.

[@vinofarm]

It's common advice, but I have heard more people say it doesn't actually work than I've heard success stories.

[@2tommyrad]

Odd... I have a hen that thinks she's a rooster, keeps mounting hens.

[@Maximusrex4575]

Are you getting Drones from the laying worker hive or are the eggs all duds, or is it a surprise for the next video?

[@AskhabovAhmad]

u came this far and seems u didnt read about adding new queen to queenless hive, put the queen box between frames and leave the hive for 3 4 days and release the queen if they r not attacking her

[@txjgb1]

What happened to your flowhives

[@notsheeple2019]

I keep bees also. Use beesource dot com. Also watch many bee keepers. The best remidy I've seen is remove the frames with multiple. Eggs and freeze them. Add new frames to remove the fake queen smell and shake the bees out on the ground. I have seen it done without shaking the bees but the best result does come from shaking the bees out on the ground. Hope you the best of luck.

[@samdogmillionaire13]

Where do you get all of your equipment? I love your videos!

[@Silver2308]

Can I ask: why is it an issue if the workers are laying eggs and there’s no one queen?

[@vinofarm]

Workers will lay unfertilized eggs, which become male bees. The hive will die off in months. Only the queen can lay fertilized, female eggs.

[@royfelts5504]

Where did you get your helmet and veil

[@michaelhopper7487]

Hey laying worker can only produce drones.

[@OneOfDisease]

Sorry about the problems with that hive. How are the others? You going to get some honey this year?

[@vinofarm]

All other hives are queenright. All are building well. We are coming out of a dearth and the hives are currently pretty light. This happened exactly the same as the past 2 years. Then things have usually exploded in late August/ Early September. Hoping for a big flow in the next month.

[@Ibrahim-ut6pn]

would expect the eggs to be on the side of the cells if it was a laying worker rather than deep into the cell if it was a queen (with long abdomen)

[@goodoleboy11668]

You make great videos. What video editing software do you use? I f you don't mind me asking. Also, why didn't you just shake all the bees away from the hive to remove the laying worker and then introduce the queen?

[@vinofarm]

Final Cut Pro. I didn't do the shaking thing because I read a lot of places that it's "Old School" advice and does not give reliable results. The key issue is suppressing the pheromones. I read this technique from a few places and it made sense. It's all experimental.

[@goodoleboy11668]

@@vinofarm good luck with it. Hope it works out. Looking forward to the next video.

[@fuanka1724]

Nice editing, I also like that music track you used. Is it from epidemic sounds?

[@vinofarm]

Thanks. Yes, it is from ES.

[@Pipefitter310]

Love your vids....are you in the Brookfield area?

[@vinofarm]

We are north of Brookfield.

[@markheslin8745]

Quite often one frame of brood will not do it. 😎 A frame a week for several weeks. To up the brood pheromones. And suppress the laying workers. Then they will pull a queen cell

[@vinofarm]

This is good advice and I learned about this after the fact.

[@gregwaskom552]

Take all the frames with eggs out of hive. Along with the bees thats on them. Replace them with brood frames from other hives. Put the laying worker frames in strong hives. They will clean up eggs and any laying workers

[@vinofarm]

Interesting approach. Where do the bees go???

[@gregwaskom552]

The bees go with the frames. The brood frames will be mostly nurse bees. You will hopefully take the laying workers with their frames. That also removes the laying worker pheromones from the hive. Put one frame frome the laying worker hive into a strong hive. In one of the outer frame positions

[@michaelhopper7487]

Are the sales that's in the hive drones or are they regular sale laying worker can only produce drones if you have sales that's flat and don't look like drone sale you have a queen in that box.

[@OkieRob]

Is this the prelude to the epic part ;-)

[@vinofarm]

Oh.. it'll get epic.

[@OkieRob]

Hahaha, I bet it will. Lol

[@projetchalet]

Let us know when yo get stung - curious ! :)

[@vinofarm]

About once a day or so.

[@tmntleo]

See, I know sod all about bees so in my head I'm just thinking your bees are depressed XD

[@julieenslow5915]

I would suggest a push in cage. Its old school but it has several advantages. First, you can make it yourself. You need a large one that allows her free access to some honey and a group of empty cells. She can start laying in those cells. It will take them a couple of days to burrow under the edges of the push in cage, and then they can release her. By then, they have brood to start taking care of and its a done deal. Don't be in a rush to release her. if in 4 days they have not managed to do so, then you do it. Its very effective. Queen pheromones are not convincing your hive that she is what they need. But queen pheromones laying in your hive, a queen with new eggs - that should do it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZDLpqWXjNl9m7M

[@julieenslow5915]

OK I put that up before I finished the video. Seems like you were ahead of me (as usual). But it also seems like we were thinking along the same lines. Your option is probably even better, but it seems like a lot of extra work. No matter the outcome, I suggest you might want to make a few push in cages to have in your repertoire of tools. I cant wait for the new video showing part 2!! You are the best!

[@garrettjohnsonyt]

This. A push-in cage would've been an excellent solution, one that doesn't rob resources from the other stronger hives. Vino's approach does indeed attempt much the same thing, albeit with more sound & fury. Of course none of our comments matter too much: He did all this a month ago. Now we're looking, a month later, at the results of his experiment.

[@julieenslow5915]

All true Garrett, but oh so much fun! He tells a story as well as anyone on KZbin which is to say, much better than most. Its always fun to watch! I'll stay tuned to watch what develops!

[@garrettjohnsonyt]

To be fair, I think a push-in cage would have been less likely to succeed than what he's doing. Looking at that hive, with it's listless (old) nurse bees and declining population, I think it would have been too little too late. Dumping three frames of young bees into this hive might quicken it just enough to crank up to a viable population by autumn. Also, lacking the half-dozen nurse bees that usually accompany a caged queen I worry, even if a push-in cage with access to honey, that she'll starve. I don't think I have ever witnessed a queen bee eat. Do they eat honey? Do they eat *regurgitated* honey from their attendants? I really have no idea. I've already said I wouldn't have attempted this solution, because there's an excellent chance he's throwing good bees after bad, but who knows? It might work.

[@julieenslow5915]

Garrett Johnson Well to be honest, I think Jim researches with the best of them, and then analyzes, thinks how to improves his odds, and then acts. So its no surprise he took a good idea and improved it. We may never know what killed that Queen. Could have been the laying worker wanted revenge. Who knows? But yes if I had to guess (and I am) I would say a Queen could feed herself if placed on a frame of capped honey. Its just not effective use of time to have your Queen doing that while trying to lay 1,000 eggs a day. But I will guess if anyone can get this hive turned around our Vino Farm man will do it! Go Jim!!

[@whosaidyoucandance]

Probably too late for this hive, laying workers for sure. Move the frames into other hives and save what you can. Or shake them out... New queen is unlikely to help, like you guessed. Let's see if your online-found scheme will work... Opening a box with a new queen after 48 hrs is a good way to get her killed.

[@privatebubba8876]

Should have shook the bees into the nuc and wait 3 or 4 hours then introduce the queen before putting nuc on the problem hive. You need to make them think they are queen less first.

[@vinofarm]

That's usually the case, but you will see the results tomorrow!

[@DreamofaHive]

I think it is very unlikely to be laying workers as you still had capped brood and you also didnt have any "popcorn" drone brood in your worker cells. A new queen can lay multiple eggs in the bottom of cells - I had a hive that I could never spot a queen for 7 years - some of them are expert hiders lol. There may still be a laying worker in there - but my guess is there is definitely a queen in there somewhere :) ...looking forward to part 2 :)

[@vinofarm]

The frame you saw me hold up was taken from another hive (Balboa) as a booster frame. That did not come FROM the LW hive. It went in as all eggs and very young larvae and some brood. After six days in there, it was covered in NEW eggs.

[@DreamofaHive]

lol ok ....back to the drawing board ...but have you got popcorn drone brood?

[@DreamofaHive]

assuming you have plenty (popcorn drone) I would have introduced her in a push in cage (made from number 8 mesh) about 4 inches x 4 inches on a frame containing emerging brood - so she can start to lay in the empty cells and some capped honey so she and the emerging bees have some food. Leave her there for 5 days and then let her out. It means she can start laying and is automatically accepted by newly emerged bees. But I wait with baited breath for outcome :) ...just so glad you didnt say " and now I will shake all the bees out a couple of hundred yards away" lol On another note ...isn't it great when you have enough hives to take resources from though?????

[@vinofarm]

The shaking thing just sounds like an old wives tale. It makes no sense to me. I didn't let the newly laid eggs develop enough to see if they were drones. I put that frame of brood and eggs in there to give them a boost and some pheromone and within a few days there were eggs all over the place (sides and edges of cells, 2-3 eggs per cell... classic signs.) I removed that frame and immediately started my nuc experiment. There was NO QUEEN in that hive. I took it apart and scoured the frames looking for a queen at least 8 times. The odd eggs initially started showing up about 3 weeks after I realized they were probably queenless. After tomorrow's video, you'll see where we are. It takes you up to present day. And tonight I came into a new problem. UGH. This hive is a pain in the ass.

[@DreamofaHive]

its always the ones that are a pain in the ass that we learn the most from hahahaha

[@dornkrull22]

another great video--I shake all the bees in the box out over 100 yards from location. Set box back in location.The field bees will fly back. The laying worker is a bee that has never been outside the hive and will be hopelessly lost. 12 hrs latter add the queen,etc etc etc. Be curious to see next video to see if this method works. Thx for all the videos

[@DembaiVT]

greg grider now this makes more sense than the whole 'a laying worker can't fly' (when of course she can) but more 'a laying worker has no experience with getting back to the hive'. Even a laying queen could get back. But not a laying worker ...in theory that she was a nurse bee who never left the hive before choosing to lay.

[@beekeeper77]

Watch my previous coments .Told u weeks ago!

[@s.ferguson4257]

house.ro this video is from july 15 - july 16

[@beekeeper77]

i know ,at that time i told him what is the problem and even gave him a solution.

[@vinofarm]

Sorry if I missed your comment. I get thousands of comments.

[@SteveMcGuire2008]

You may need to find the old queen, pinch her dead. Then introduce the caged queen.

[@vinofarm]

There was no old queen. There were multiple laying workers.

[@unicornbunny6190]

Where is part 2?

[@vinofarm]

It is coming out tomorrow. It was mentioned at the end of the video.

[@jamesbrimhall2333]

Here is a link to some helpful videos of experienced beekeepers that address many of the issues you are experimenting with: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5SulZ-Pr9eWhac

[@jmeilhan]

If you have a laying worker shake the bees out they will find new home in your other hives, they will not accept a a new Queen.

[@vinofarm]

What's the fun in that?

[@ethanjohnson2402]

to fix a laying worker u cant put a gueen in it. u have to put a cell in it!!!!

[@DarthAnimal]

Call this the Canadian Hive, it has 3 different kinds of bees

[@krispapas9834]

Those nectar bees will probably kill her

[@vinofarm]

You'll see tomorrow!

[@krispapas9834]

Nurse bees will accept a queen better.

[@Jay-jp2iv]

I agree with other comments. Empty those bees into the yard 60 feet away roughly and let the flying bees return to the hive and a new queen waiting in her cage. The laying workers will remain in the grass where you emptied them as they can’t fly anymore. A nuisance. Act quickly. “Winter Is Coming”

[@vinofarm]

I keep hearing this advice, but could you explain what would make a laying worker unable to fly?

[@TheOregonOutlaw]

Jim, you might not have heard this yet: Newest findings indicate laying workers can NOT CONTROL THEIR FLIGHT path due to extreme resistance created by heavy "old wives tales". LOL

[@Jay-jp2iv]

Vino Farm they find it difficult to fly after changing to laying ability. Another method to think about is to remove hive when workers first leave in the morning and swap with a strong hive. The workers return to a Queen right hive with lots of bees knowing what their role is if any laying workers return they will be killed by the strong colony, it’s the only way to identify a laying worker, leave it to the bees, it takes a healthy colony to identify and sort a failing one. The queenless hive can then be put in place of previous strong hive and have returning workers who again will identify a problem in the hive with the low pheromone level and seek to destroy laying workers. Leave it a day or two to sort and you can then try and introduce you new queen. Good luck to the Vino Farm. Great work thus far. “Winter Is Coming”

[@mrnogood]

Wouldn't it be easier to leave them alone? As long as eggs are being laid, who cares? Provide them with an environment and let them run their world.

[@TheLittleAzn]

How much does a fertilized queen cost?

[@vinofarm]

$30 -$35 usually.

[@TheLittleAzn]

Vino Farm Wow, I see. Thanks!

[@christopherbrown4328]

Binged watched all your bee videos over the weekend which got me thinking about your winter issues (keeping bees alive). I was thinking because you have such harsh winters could you artificially warm your hive? So I came across this guy on youtube , but instead of powering it with extension cords could be power it with a solar panel like your fence. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5PMZq17Zsyghsk

[@rotielover]

Christopher Brown I saw an option to over winter in a cold storage facility. Temperature regulated to keep the bees inside, but never too cold. Interesting options!

[@vinofarm]

Thanks for watching! The thing you need to be careful of is artificially warming too much. I'm finding that it's best to protect them from wind, give them a bit of insulation, and let them 'come to temperature' with the seasons. If they get too warm in March, but it's still freezing outside with no flowers for months, you get bees flying out of the hive and dying. I've gotten 3 out of 5 hives through winter with no extra heat. The two that died were infested with varroa mites. If I was losing every hive, I'd be looking into some kind of heat. For now, I'm going to keep tweaking what I'm doing a bit each year. Thanks!

[@christopherbrown4328]

Thanks for your response!

[@grampasmurf6982]

Wow they just don't care lol. They haven't been collecting pollen in a nearby hemp field have they? :D

[@adamtate6030]

G

[@bdanza]

part two?! booo

[@vinofarm]

How many would you like?

[@bdanza]

1 only one.... BTW I had a laying worker in one of my hives this spring, ended up having to dismantle it.

[@vinofarm]

Well, sorry! And, sorry. Thanks for watching anyway. Maybe just wait until Friday and watch them all.