James O'Brien meets Nick Wallis | LBC

Nick Wallis was presenting the breakfast show for BBC Radio Surrey in 2010 when he was contacted by a listener with a story he’s been investigating ever since. Nick helped expose one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in UK legal history - the Post Office Horizon IT scandal that has devastated the lives of hundreds of innocent hardworking people across the country. His work has been published in Private Eye and broadcast on BBC Panorama, The One Show and BBC Radio 4. It is also the basis of his first book, The Great Post Office Scandal.
Tickets for his show, Post Office Scandal - the Inside Story are available at postofficescandal.uk
#jamesobrien #NickWallis #LBC
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[@paulbrown2971]

Thank heavens for serious, dedicated journalists not interested in click bait and sensationalism but, as Nick says, motivated by the ability to shine a light on injustice for us, the people.

[@clivet3252]

Unfortunately James is all about clickbait and sensationalism.

[@greyhamneggs]

@@clivet3252 if that is what you take away from this then you must be a supporter of the Post Office and Fujitsu.

[@clivet3252]

@@greyhamneggs I don't know how you can think that.

[@johnmurray5573]

Was James onto this 5 years ago or is he on the bandwagon late?

[@clivet3252]

@@johnmurray5573 just a few months ago James was mocking an NHS whistleblower and turning his audience against him and the idea of any problems with NHS management.

[@marvinsymes]

nick wallis deserves every credit he gets , years of hard work pays off- seems very balanced and sensible as well.

[@GaryV-p3h]

Broken Britain, broken by design. This is not just incompetence, it's deliberate.

[@snapdragon1194]

Absolutely 💯

[@Refflog]

Without doubt

[@shaun906]

Thats what people cant accept, and why it took a drama to show how things really work!

[@smellslikethinice1107]

With so many years, so many wrongful convictions, and so many posh idiots involved.. It has to be systemic.

[@robertsmuggles6871]

@@shaun906 yes - a TV show which told us what we already know deep-down - our culture has become profoundly dishonest. PO people happily use the horizon system today - as if nothing happened. Better to not think about it.

[@JoelJoel321]

Nick is a hero. Like Bates he has not let the villains off the hook. So much respect.

[@jasonking6817]

Truly enlightening! You’re a star, Nick. You have soldiered on so determindly and done the the whole country a public service🙏 Huge respect🙌

[@leannetrotter4414]

WELL DONE AND WELL SAID !!!

[@johndewhurst6609]

Fujitsu knew that the Horizon software was faulty before selling it to the Post Office. They are responsible along with the Post Office Management to pay compensation to the victims, but also to refund the taxpayers for the money they charged for the substandard system.

[@robertsmuggles6871]

The system was an in-house joke at Fujitsu in 1998. But they all remained silent while innocent people, one after one, were fitted-up for theft and false accounting. No one said anything to help the helpless victims. They were abandoned - thrown overboard - like garbage.

[@andiidoode]

I feel somewhat ashamed that I have never heard of this guy before, he is actually making me rethink the circles of people I move in and the kinds of values and objectives we hold dear!!

[@twelveightyone]

Love Nick Wallis, a true investigative journalist in every way. Thank you Nick.

[@Vince_uk]

Fujitsu are absolutely culpable but that shouldn't be allowed to deflect from the appalling actions of the Post Office and its bullying and corrupt staff. They are both equally guilty.

[@barbaracallister8138]

I completely agree with your statement, no lies this time that it was all the Tories fault well done, JO'B will not like your statement.

[@clivet3252]

Let's not forget that someone phoned up O'Brien a few months ago and complained about a bullying culture within the NHS. O'Brien ridiculed them and turned his listeners against them.

[@BarMagnet]

The money has disappeared into a software system. Surely inland revenue have an obligated interest in this case?

[@fang_xianfu]

Yup, Fujitsu may have made awful software but it was the Post Office and the Subpostmasters' union that decided to lie about the number of cases, lie about remote access, lie about bugs they were aware of.

[@fang_xianfu]

​@@clivet3252 what is this, are you shilling for the post office or something, trying to distract from what we're talking about? If you have beef with James you're welcome to it but maybe don't bang on about it in threads about other things.

[@geoffreybuckingham689]

So, so absorbing. This is proper journalism…”fear no one, accept nothing, believe nobody, check everything.”

[@oleleclos]

Having followed these atrocious events for more than a decade, I am ashamed on behalf of the IT community I was once part of that buggy software combined with corporate and personal incompetence and greed has been allowed to ruin the lives of thousands of innocent people. Taking honours away from the chief architect of this wilfully evil plot is the least that must now happen. Every single person, whether at the Post Office or Fujitsu, who has played a part in this needs to face the music - legally and financially - without further delay. A strategy of denial, diversion and delay has been the evil Post Office plan all along, and it must stop now! At least it is heartening to hear Fujitsu finally own up; I only hope it is not just another cover-up.

[@snapdragon1194]

After watching the 2 top bosses from Fujitsu and Post office give some answers to the committee, the only one continually evading the truth was the Post office boss. He did not sound at all convincing or even sorry about the culpability he has. He evaded any questions with the usual answer of " I don't recall" he should be charged for his total lack of care and corruption in the evidence.

[@yummemys4608]

Why are these white collar ceos never charged in your country?

[@BarMagnet]

The money has disappeared into a software system. Surely inland revenue have an obligated interest in this case?

[@alanhill4334]

The legal system bears much of the blame as well as the Post Office.

[@charlesjohnson7813]

When will the government get on with it? These poor devils can never be compensated enough ,and when will we see the guilty parties (I.e.)Paula vennels and etc behind bars

[@dan007ification]

This is the best interview I’ve ever seen

[@sarajaneclarke]

Great interview, thank you from Western Australia ❤

[@juditkoncz1020]

And from South Africa.

[@janebuckland737]

Great Work Guys, Loving the deep rooted compassion on this….how sad,how horrifying people done this to people and governments let it happen their people. The nations shame

[@fintamaria2429]

This is not just incompetence, it’s deliberate 😢😢😢

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

And to think this all went on right under our noses. No wonder the Co-op supermarkets got right out of being sub-post office branches, no surprise.

[@fktygglbtchbtch1384]

It didn't go under the nose, the corruption was widespread and high up and many worked to lie and hide the truth. Just because it's in the news now doesn't mean it hasn't been happening for decades.

[@bluebrakes]

I think Nick Wallis represents true investigative journalism, instead of click bait or copy and paste from twitter/Facebook posts.

[@johndewhurst6609]

The scary thing to me is that the Post Office is publicy owned but has its own power to prosecute people without an investigation by the police. If an ultraright party took power they could extend this power to all its departmnts.

[@GaryV-p3h]

They are already trying it.

[@barbaracallister8138]

@@GaryV-p3h Do you mean the Muslim Party, because the police are all on the left, they support all the Hamas Fanatics.

[@robsengahay5614]

HMRC has the same powers (well, even more to be accurate) however my experience of that Department was such that this responsibility was taken very seriously and you really had to have a case nailed down before considering prosecution. The staggering part to me was that the Post Office clearly made no attempt to seek out what the alleged stolen money was spent on. Money leaves a trail and it takes a really clever criminal to cover all their tracks and launder stolen money invisibly. The arrogance of the Post Office prosecutors in going to court without any evidence at all that this money had actually been spent by the accused is so staggering I can scarcely believe it possible. If someone had written this as a fictional story I would have thought it too far fetched to be possible.

[@fang_xianfu]

Actually anyone in the UK can bring a private prosecution if they want to. This is sometimes quite useful as, for example, the RSPCA gathers evidence and then prosecutes animal cruelty cases without using up any police or CPS resources. But it can also be abused by institutions. The Post Office was somewhat unique in that it was the most trusted brand in Britain, and so it could use that enormous trust to strongarm people.

[@jimmcleod557]

Page 27 of the Mail while the front pages were trivia about a celebrity maybe up in court for a driving offence that’s the kind of Media we have

[@elyawdi]

Why on earth didn't the post office just turn around to Fujitsu and cancel the contract and sue Fujitsu for selling a faulty product, instead of deciding to prosecute innocent people?!

[@barbaracallister8138]

Tell that to Blair, he signed the contract.

[@grahamepigney8565]

@@barbaracallister8138 can you provide evidence for that statement

[@grahamepigney8565]

Software contracts are more complicated than that. The representative on the customer side is often relectant to admit that she/he was wrong.

[@elyawdi]

@@grahamepigney8565 yeah but surely, if you pay that much for a product that doesn't work, then you should have a right to recourse including a refund or something, so instead of going down that route, why take it out on innocent people, when you know that software is faulty, it's mismanagement of the absolute highest order, no matter how complicated the contract is

[@grahamepigney8565]

@@elyawdi have you worked in IT and seen first -hand how difficult it is to pullout of a contract, particularly when the system has already gone into production? You are confusing the Post Office's incompetance in the way the "so-called" frauds were dealt with and the difficulties of pulling out of a contract that has already gone live.

[@splatten8597]

There must be criminal prosecutions against these people especially Vennells and the justice system

[@billykershaw2781]

Dan Niedle, according to Moorhouse, reckoned the compensation forms would cost £10,000 in legal fees to fill in correctly.......

[@nevillewright1998]

previous Post Office CEO, Crozier, not mentioned at all in the ITV drama.

[@robertallardice8119]

Michael Keegan CEO of Fujitsu 2014-15, husband of Gillian Keegan MP.

[@philliptaylor8636]

has this really anything to do with Fujitsu if the post office knowingly purchased a system known to be imperfect but made a commercial decision to commission or use this imperfect system within the company?

[@andrelim95]

Search up the names Gareth Jenkins and Anne Chambers. Now retired from Fujitsu, they are the ones being investigated by the Met for perjury. Chambers to her slim credit gave testimony at the inquiry. Jenkins however is vehemently demanding full legal immunity before he says anything at any inquiry appearance. The chair of the inquiry has politely told him to get real and refuses to promise him any such favors.

[@poneill65]

Nick Wallis OBE Please! Or maybe CBE,... I believe there's one spare knocking about that just became available.

[@srp01983]

The honours system has been completely besmirched by people like Paula Vennels and Baroness Mone, and by those who sit on their fat corrupt backsides making the decisions to award them to such vile individuals. Alan Bates has been proposed to receive an honour and I believe he has refused.

[@allonwne]

I think Nick Wallis is worth a lot more than that junk.

[@CoxJul]

Bear in mind that this started with a British company called ICL that won multiple government contracts. Fujitsu owned majority shareholding in 1998 and rebranded in Fujitsu computers in 2002. This scandal was already well underway by then.

[@mazmartell]

Nick Wallis for PM.

[@GaryV-p3h]

I wonder how much money if any the Tory party has received in donations from Fujuitsu & any other companies they've give huge amounts of taxpayer's money to in government contracts over the past 14 years, it's time ALL political party donations were totally transparent and available for public scrutiny, every penny & from whom.

[@barbaracallister8138]

Hello Tory Party fault again, what about the 11years Blair and his cronnies ie the labour party who gave the contract to Fujuitsu in the first place. There the one's who were in charge of putting all these Post Office employer's in prison while in government. This is the typical lies of an LBC JO'B gobshite programme.

[@clivet3252]

Why are you just talking about the Tories and the last 14 years?

[@chrisfell5073]

3,000 claims so far. Everybody new including the legal team by 2003 It was to protect a computer system. PO enquiry Day 59 !!

[@donnagray9579]

Next question is, how many other companies are using Horizon or other Fujitsu products?

[@scottiedog4236]

Breaks my heart to see what’s happened to our post office. Surely it’s a big wake up shake up of our Brexit country

[@peterchapman697]

What is clear from the interviews that the inquiry is conducting is that these people did not associate seniority and huge salaries with responsibility. In a just world, refusal to acknowledge malfeasance (typified by "i don't recall") while in office should be associated with paying back the salary paid while in that office. Won't happen of course.

[@JulieSayce-ko1yj]

Should take their pensions off them all

[@PaddyMacWorld]

This is really coming to fruition right now. (Late May ‘24). If some of the culprits aren’t sent to prison there is no justice. People killed themselves cause of this scandal! I know a lot of people are frustrated with the enquiry but the great work of the barristers involved is laying the groundwork for the prosecutor’s.

[@glynnismcc4549]

Over and above the 'deference to the boss class' is the almost automatic distrust of employees, ironically people the boss class appoints. I've seen this in educational organisations where professional, adult teachers are not trusted to be doing the right thing by the establishment or by their students.

[@olaa5534]

Fujitsu and Post Office both had a bankrupt moral, as such both company needs to be made bankrupt so that others abstain from criminal practices that ruins lives.

[@johnherbert7489]

needs Ian Hislop's views too

[@grahamsmith6053]

Another brilliant video ruined by scam KZbin Ads!

[@grahamepigney8565]

Fujitsu was a multi-billion company well before the Horizon project, the second oldest after IBM. Fujitsu UK's predecessor (International Computers Limited) was always reliant on UK Government contracts, indeed the Horizon project was orginally an ICL project.

[@olaa5534]

Horizon paved the way for Fujitsu UK to win more lucrative contracts from the UK government. If Horizon was exposed has a failure then Fujitsu-UK might need be this big and Post-masters lives will not be ruined. To be honest Fujitsu-UK will have packed up and left the country.

[@RAHellemans]

Yes let's not talk about the 1000th's of postmasters who plaided guilty, payed up to get out? Where are the evidence from the post offices of payments received from "accused" postmasters?

[@SteveRose-iq1cs]

Fujitsu is one of the largest companies in technology. In manufacturing they own Fanuc who dominate CNC and robotics

[@dalelewis69]

It wasn’t just the counters but law breaking and corruption was fife among the delivery arm of Royal Mail/Consignia including perjury

[@dalelewis69]

Compared to what Ronnie Biggs did the Royal Mail Post Office managers are every bit as criminal and deserve everything the Train Robber got

[@Hannah-pk6iq]

You can always tell when someone has a connection with Liverpool. It never leaves them.

[@katebuckfield7736]

Should Fitjitsu be boycotted by customers?

[@lloydbelle3406]

There is still one burning question that rankles me. I can understand Fujitsu and the Post Office wanting to hide the issue that their software system was faulty, what I don't understand is why didn't the Post Office and Fujitsu didn't seek to solve the problem on the quiet...

[@tukicat1399]

I dont understand either.. the post office simply could have said to Fujitsu... fix it or else...

[@moabdelkafi797]

Denial by both, not understanding the level/significance or errors and bugs in the system, and, without doubt, the contempt they had for postmasters - believing a lot were on the take! It's just all so awful.

[@BillyBobJoeSnr]

This is an example of the libertarian capitalist utopia where the controller of the capital is unhindered to extract a profit even whilst perpetrating criminal or unethical activities. Money and power trumps the law and order...

[@allmodcons2274]

Trying to watch this but constant buffering here. Will try again another time.

[@claudiafigueiredo4979]

Can we do a drama of this goverment since 2010 for ppl to understand the damage done to uk. Maby will stop ppl to vote tories is the only solution

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

On this side of the pond, knew Nick from his coverage of the Depp-Heard trial

[@oldneo4309]

Perjury, Fraud, and Conspiracy to pervert course of justice-let’s hope Justice is eventually done and people at senior levels are held accountable.

[@GWills-ys6rd]

WHO'S NEXT - HMRC?

[@splatten8597]

Post office managers should be sack, their pensions taken and be criminally charged. As for the Fujitsu boss in the UK, he should already be in prison!

[@anastasiatempest761]

Nick Wallis is excellent, I too have an interesting story for Nick. This is an excellent interview, it’s terrible what happened to in relation to the Post Office, corruption saga. Anastasia ♥️🌻🙏🧑🏻‍🦼

[@lolly9080]

Malevolent individuals in charge of a quango

[@fang_xianfu]

1:00:30 "In America you've got a system that is set up so that executives know that if they make deals in bad faith, they may go to prison. We have to make kt easier for people to put their hand up and say 'my organisation may have done some bad things'... we have to legislate that if you put your hand up, you will be protected, and otherwise you will go to prison" They have that second part in the US, too. The DA and US Attorney has a very big stick, and whoever confesses first gets a plea deal.

[@paulslater9061]

The truth should be the overriding reason for government to get involved always but they just aren't interested

[@paulaharris-allen8900]

Nick Wallis deserves better.

[@batterylife123]

Prison for all concerned.

[@robertsmuggles6871]

That's exactly what they said about the sub-postmasters ! You could get a senior job at the Post Office !!

[@Rembie]

What is it with LBC phone callers They have to the word umm after every 3 words and in between every sentence Sooooooooo annoying They prob think it makes them intellectually sounding Inarguably book u read And the word umm in between every sentence I mute Alex’s all the time to avoid dees umm people and it’s nearly 9 out ov 10 callers Meh

[@StockportGirl]

Wonder if Hollywood will come a-knocking?

[@davidgay1z]

Here is the thing, apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention. I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many KZbin articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down. This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away! I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed.

[@katebuckfield7736]

David Mc Donald…interesting.

[@kathrynhobbs8874]

I do agree with the least/ worst idea, but Nick’s suggestion that possibly the wrong-un might get found out by customers saying I saw them take money out of the till brings with it the problem that sub postmasters were advised to take over balances out of the til, to pay it back when there was an under balance. The sub postmaster so observed may well have been following the suggestion and doing just that.

[@yummemys4608]

Endless useless public inquiries and what's changed? Nothing at all 😂. Vote in the next corrupt party. 😂.

[@dougallee7066]

Is it not time to say thanks, too to the widely under-valued and under-estimated BBC? Under serious pressure nowadays from all sorts of angles. And I do a mean Abanazar, and would be available for panto this year. Would Nick's pal have any interest?

[@johngreen6191]

Danny Baker was the last of the best on BBC. BBC used to be the go to channel. Not any more.

[@yummemys4608]

But everyone loves everything japan/Japanese. 😂😂😂

[@paulaharris-allen8900]

The interviewer is annoyingly looking bored.

[@leoralph2810]

Yes, I noticed that too! I think Nick Wallis should take over from James as he is far more interesting!

[@beverleyprice7468]

It was a scam !

[@sueyourself5413]

Fujitsu, a very diverse company, did not make its billions even in the UK. Jobby thinks that the UK is a lot more important than it actually is, always.

[@andrewglover9608]

'UK-based Fujitsu Services Ltd, which houses the Japanese firm's UK and Irish businesses, posted pre-tax profits of £22m in 2022, on revenues of £1.3bn, the accounts show. Its three directors shared pay of £2.3m, of which £1.3m was paid to one unnamed executive.'

[@sueyourself5413]

@@andrewglover9608 yeah. 1.3B is not billions. Too lazy to check if those stats are even correct, but thanks for agreeing with me.

[@clivet3252]

He's just a tabloid sensationalist.

[@eddyr3691]

​@@sueyourself5413 Thats just 1 year, pretty sure Fujitsu UK has been operating for a little longer than a year. Accounting clearly not a strong point, were you involved in developing the Horizon accounting system by any chance?

[@snowyowel7961]

Shouldn't starmer be answering questions. He was head of the cps at the time of the post office scandal. People sent to prison suicides lives ruined what was starmer doing seriously. But we knew lbc would not ask.

[@andrewglover9608]

NO cases were brought to Starmer regarding Horizon, he was at the CPS, the Post Office itself investigated and brought charges

[@ytthrowaway4584]

@@andrewglover9608No point trying to reason with him. He’s a troll by from his posting history.

[@snowyowel7961]

@@fangdango21 Starmer said there was 3 cases horizon said it was nearer a 100. However 10 cases taken by the cps resulted in convictions 3 occurred while starmer was DPP. He should be questioned why isn't he.

[@clivet3252]

@@snowyowel7961 because he's protected by the media. They can turn everyone against Boris for having a cake, but when Starmer has serious questions to answer, they deflect. It was the same with Cameron and the expenses scandal. Gordon Brown claimed a few thousand for practical items in the running of an office. Cameron and Osborne claimed over a hundred thousand and flipped their mortgages. Yet the expenses scandal was twisted against Labour and Cameron became PM.

[@snowyowel7961]

@@clivet3252 I agree you are spot on.