LDL Cholesterol Debate - William Cromwell, Bret Scher, Nadir Ali -

[@zarinadelarosa5042]

❤very informative Dr. NADIR IS THE BEST

[@matts2758]

This is exactly what we need. Deep dives into the nuance of the science rather than just black and white approaches.

[@Mark-h2p4u]

I have finally watched it all and if I had to pick one to be my doctor would be Nadir Ali

[@kathydicioccio6094]

He demonstrated the highest degree of critical thinking and practical sensibility to me.

[@starrynight8007]

@@kathydicioccio6094hi, so what was the bottom line that statins are toxic? My mother is 88 years old and they still have her on Stan. She’s never had a heart attack. She’s been on Simvastatin Zocor. It’s horrible. She has weak muscles now…

[@starrynight8007]

What was the ultimate point that statins caused more damage than harm right??

[@americanonobrasil2128]

Every time I watch stuff like this I wish I had a doctor like him close to me.. him or Dr Ted Naiman would be amazing physicians to have

[@robert111k]

I deeply admire these three guys. Thanks for sharing.

[@charlesincharge3404]

Interesting comment, seeing as though 2 of them represent a massively corrupt medical establishment

[@JMK-vo8pv]

This was an AMAZING debate. We need more of these discussions across the country, in medical schools and within public health organizations on a regular basis. Kudos to Dave Feldman and Drs. Cromwell, Scher and Ali!👏🙏👏

[@JayJay-un3rp]

Oh! You can be sure that big Pharma will be keeping these types of debates well off campus! 😢

[@lorettadillon-ham1574]

100%

[@debjordan4399]

Outstanding conference. Kudo's to the panel!

[@zicopest]

^ kudos. It’s not a possessive.

[@slaterider]

Thank you for posting, Dave! Please keep them coming because the information is so important. Also, I love Dr. Ali, he's the best.

[@bradfordsimms715]

Dave and Nadir are national treasures

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

Absolutely

[@davidzip8841]

Yes, because they tell you what you want to hear. Wait until you have your first MI and see if you still think they are treasures.

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

@@davidzip8841So drugs stop heart attacks? My cousin died of heart attack at 50 and had life long LDL under 80 mg/dl. So is the golden savior statin drugs saving from lowering LDL or lowering inflammation?

[@LowCarbLowDrama]

​@davidzip8841 that's right. We love hearing the truth

[@NickSpriggs]

The bigger issue is prevention by nutrition strategy is superior to treatment after the fact with low efficacy pharmaceutical intervention.

[@louisa4295]

Wow! Well done.. that was a great panel discussion by very very knowledgeable experts.. Very impressive.. Thanks Dave for spearheading this movement. Dr Cromwell, Dr Brett Scher ( miss you on Diet Doctor BTW), and lastly but not in the least, Dr Nadir Ali with his huge intellect, passion, and real-world clinical perspective . Thanks all!

[@richardbray8004]

Dr Ali Nadir was amazing. He was the best.

[@vistagraphsnet]

Dear Dr. Tsai I was very disappointed with our last appointment for these reasons. While sitting in the lobby I was asked to complete an information sheet which included issues I wanted to discuss with you. I wrote: toes (amputation ?), buttocks, thighs, back and top of head (psoriasis). During our appointment you led off with your examination of the lipid panel, specifically the LDL number. You said it was high and were about to prescribe medication but I explained that I was opposed to medication (as I have had statins in the past and experienced serious side effects). But more important (which I never spoke to you about) was my concern that the LDL number is of no concern to me for two reasons. First, I have adopted the carnivore lifestyle six months ago and only eat 6-8 eggs daily in lots of butter and mostly ribeye steaks, salmon, lamb and grass fed hamburger. This was the reason the LDL went higher. Anyone who chooses Keto or carnivore lifestyle will have a similar increase in their LDL number, some with a much higher number. Second, I have researched more than two dozen doctors (on KZbin) all of whom take the modern position that LDL is insignificant, and the HDL to Triglycerides ratio is much more important as is the VLDL. My HDL to Triglyceride ratio is 1.33 but a 2.5 or higher is a concern and significant. In addition, my VLDL is 18 which is considered to be an indication of good metabolical health or insulin sensitivity. It is true that the Standard of Care requires a statin if LDL is high, and most doctors still adhere to this to prevent law suits by taking any other position. I would like to recommend that you watch Dr. Robert Lustig who has many videos on youtube. He is professor emeritus at UC San Francisco. His is the most precise explanation of LDL and cholesterol. I would also recommend you watch Dr. Suneel Dhand. He reports on a recent study on Statins (40% taking them do not need them). His position on LDL reflects the modern view that the LDL number is not important but size of particles and other factors need to be considered. There are so many other doctors who have similar opinions and I have watched more than sixty hours of their videos. Another example would be Dr. Sten Ekberg who has many videos on cholesterol, and one on point is entitled “Your doctor is wrong about cholesterol.” You may be aware that a forty year old study that concluded there was neither co-relation or causation between LDL and coronary heart disease was suppressed by big food and big pharma, and that the NIH (National Institute of Health) recently uncovered this study. That appears to be the basis for many doctors who express the current facts about LDLand cholesterol. Because I am firm in my opinion and beliefs, I am concerned that our relationship might become adversary. If you agree that this may be the case, I would like you to recommend a Dignity Health Doctor who may be enlightened as to the modern view on cholesterol. On the other hand if you can accept the fact that at 84 I am very concerned with my health and that we can work together, I would appreciate continuing as your patient as I have always had a very high opinion of your professionalism. I have until December 7th to make any changes in my health plan. By the way, we never got to discuss my concerns that I may need two big toes amputated or otherwise attended to and am really interested in discussing the top of my head as it really itches. As for my thighs and buttocks, I am unsure what your opinion was about this pain as you did not discuss it. You did recommend physical therapy for my back for which I am already attending Capitol PT. Thank you for the call regarding my CAC 3,500 score and I would like to determine if the plaque is soft (likely to rupture) or calcified (repairs to a previous event or more). I am currently researching this subject but would prefer a medical opinion in addition to youtube videos of other doctors opinions. Respectfully yours,

[@jessicaapple889]

This was awesome! Conference highlight!

[@masoudkeyhani7452]

DR nadir your idea is much more reasonable and logic than others our body need Ldl To function better

[@DJdavefromlondon]

Thank the lord for all 3 willing to openly debate.

[@gerardsagliocca6292]

I am trying to decide if I need to get off Stations !!! My wish is to get off. But getting off has led my LDL and HDL to go up, where they are flagged on my blood lipid panel. My triglyceride has remained low because I do Keto dieting mostly.. I have been on Stations for about 20 years , and side effects are not good. What should I do.?

[@rawmilkmike]

​@gerardsagliocca6292 If you have even one side effect that cancels out any possible benefit. And you don't just have one side effect or multiple side effects. You also have increased risk of diabetes and dementia. If you stay on this drug. Your keto diet has real benefit. And no side effects. Why would you even ask the question? "What should I do." Stress is a heart attack risk factor. A drug that turns you into a vegetable does decrease your stress level. But, there are side effects of this drug that clearly shorten your life. Decreasing your risk of heart attack does not mean it increases your life expectancy. Especially if it gives you diabetes. Or dementia. 17:58

[@pureabsolute4618]

@@gerardsagliocca6292 For a layman's interpretation of what you need to know - check out dr. Sten Ekberg www.youtube.com/@drekberg Statins block important pathways that produce CoQ10 and cholesterol. Doing this causes the liver to uptake the LDL from the blood, giving better LDL numbers, but not improving the outcomes. Because the uptake does not include the LDLs that are Glycated and Oxidized. This LDL is the same as the LDL that statins work on, except they've been damaged. This damage can come from stress, inflamation, perhaps some other things... and CARBS (glucose). So 1) Get off the statin. And 2) Go lo carb, get good sleep, reduce stress, etc. As for measurements - you want to measure the size of the particles, and the larger the size average, the better you are doing. All of this is talked about in ekberg's video : kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYqXaaSCoZ6NsKc Another excellent video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioOlYZ2Fm96ggs0 This one is by Dr. Paul Mason on the Low Carb Down Under channel.

[@lynnpaxton9520]

@@gerardsagliocca6292get off them they are killing you 1:12 !

[@wbonney411]

​@@gerardsagliocca6292 do a hdl to triglycerides ratio . Also check out books by Dr Robert Lustig

[@Ingridvieira310]

Thank you for doing this !! It’s about time that the status quo and standard of care be questioned and challenged. A huge Thank you for including Dr. Nadir Ali in this conversation .. his knowledge, experience and input are exceptional. ✨

[@seadroid]

Couldn't agree more!!

[@sweetpcilla5760]

I’m a health care worker and I absolutely agree with the panel against statins and big pharma!

[@Melissa-eb2iy]

I used to feel that way until I had a major MI two years ago. I'm alive thanks to big Pharma.

[@chateaurico413]

For what its worth, my CAC went down 40% over two years on a low carb (not always strict keto) diet. Numbers went from 576 in January 2021 to 422 in February 2023, same lab, different radiologists. I'm a lean mass hyperresponder, avid cyclist and 73 years old after a lifetime of stress and extreme athletics..

[@Thegeeman68]

Same here. Three years, went from 287 to 103. LDL elevated hovers around 110. My doctor says he's never seen a patient's CAC decrease like that, especially on ketovore. He agreed that I do not need to use a statin.

[@JayJay-un3rp]

I think ketevor is probably the best, with a little fruit or dark chocolate each day.

[@trail.blazer]

@@JayJay-un3rp Why dark chocolate?

[@JayJay-un3rp]

@@trail.blazer apart from controlling sugar cravings i think the polyphenols and antiox effects might be beneficial. I also enjoy it

[@trail.blazer]

@@JayJay-un3rp I like really dark chocolate, typically 90-92% which I now find sweet because I don't eat much sweet stuff. However, I only have 20g portions and I try to keep low oxalate. I suspect a small portion size will not have any nutrient benefits and a large portion size will have some negative issues. But for controlling sugar cravings it could be good.

[@jgbd4242]

I have high LDL. I did CAT scan for a calcification score and it was 0!

[@huali4332]

Dr Ali is great, hope voices like his can be greatly encouraged!

[@jimo559]

IMO Dr Nadir Ali has the most thoughtful insights into LDL and human metabolism with respect to ASCVD and overall health. From comparative anatomy to the importance of high LDL for immunity to the dangers of medical interventions in chronic diseases that can be solved with lifestyle choices. I lean heavily into his well thought out insights into human health. God bless you Dr Ali.

[@Kittyslay-ox4tk]

Am stunned at the quality of this discourse. Thank Your to Drs Scher, Cromwell and Ali - superb insights. Also massive thanks to Dave Feldman for facilitating.

[@sheilacollins9384]

Insurance companies have already made their conclusion on risk clear: high LDL is not one of the risk factors they use in their calculations on individual insurance policies. They have seen that there is NO association in their years and multitudes of statistics.

[@diegodesouza9697]

The insurance companies know better than anyone, because their money is in risk, doctors don’t care because they will make money with you live or dead.

[@AnitaCorbett]

Oh WOW having listened right through I am blown away by the quality of this DISCUSSION ! The way the panel courteously interacted reflects the maturity of their beliefs and personal standards I respect and admire the tone of this discussion and the amazing strides made in dismantling information through this platform Thank you

[@gray45374]

Amazing debate. Thanks for making this available for those who didn't attend.

[@MrSevam]

Fabulous open and honest discussion in the continuing search for transparency in medicine and health. Top class panel and courteous discussion ; Well done Dave Feldman, yet again.

[@TommysPianoCorner]

The assumption that high LDL is ‘bad’ is somewhat unfounded in the sense that it is likely that the body regulates the amount of LDL in circulation based on adaptive behaviors. Thus, many people with a high A1C tend to have higher LDL than those with a lower A1C. Certainly, this has been my experience. When I had an A1C of 12.8, my LDL and triglycerides were both high and my HDL low. Reducing my A1C by lifestyle change saw my HDL rise and my LDL and triglycerides fall. Thus, to me this is clear evidence that my body is auto-regulating based on its environment. The risk with pharmaceuticals in this scenario is that they fight against what the body is trying to do on the assumption that ‘science’ knows better than ‘nature’. I think that as a general rule, nature normally seems to be a better judge. I’m fairly sure that trying to say LDL is bad therefore we need to lower it without understanding why the body is purposefully producing it to that level is a short sighted (and dare I say arrogant) stance?

[@tonycrosby913]

The foods you ate that caused your A1C to increase also caused your LDL to increase

[@TheCompleteGuitarist]

> THIS, you are absolutely right (about everything).

[@ArtU4All]

Beautifully stated 🙏🌿

[@defeqel6537]

just the simple fact that fasting increases LDL should tell us that there is something wrong with blaming LDL: why would our bodies weaken themselves exactly when they have a need to be in the best shape?

[@TommysPianoCorner]

@@defeqel6537 there are so many holes in the theory that even the most fervent supporters should be seeking to understand why!

[@bartrobinson2103]

I just don't know who or what to believe anymore.

[@markoneil5279]

If we are willing to dig into any minute detail of the LDL/CVD discussion, we cannot completely disregard the massive financial incentives that are present. If researchers have a financial interest in the outcome of tests, we are NOT discussing science.

[@dr.julia-heyakarcic8862]

Dr. Ali is right.

[@thetolliosfamily4627]

Why oh why can’t our politicians give us respectful and thoughtful debates sans attacks and shaming among opposing sides as well as this panel just did it? It gives me so much hope to see that somewhere in our world the message is not being controlled and both sides of an issue are being fully and thoughtfully presented together. We need more of this in our world.

[@Michael-pn2ye]

Very informative love it!!!!

[@NickSpriggs]

Wonderful and informative panel. My only addition would be Paul Mason

[@Ray-wn1fj]

Dr malcolm Hendrik

[@euskryhtbnfvse4i7ehs4hnvf]

@@Ray-wn1fj Malcolm Kendrick

[@CP59FIT]

Well since he wasn't in Vegas that day the options were limited to those that paid there own way to the fundraiser conference.

[@Ray-wn1fj]

😂​@@euskryhtbnfvse4i7ehs4hnvf

[@doddgarger6806]

Absolutely and maybe Dr Bikman

[@randyjnaron]

Cromwell didn’t like being challenged. Dr. Ali was the only one being completely honest.

[@michaelhimes8778]

I have a zero CAC score and my other factors put me at a 2.1% 10 year risk. Add in high Lp(a) and that goes up. I asked my cardiologist about a CT Angiogram to see about soft plaque and he talked me out of it saying that even if I had soft plaque (which I probably do), his treatment would be to get my gut microbiome working and reduce all inflammation and thin the blood with Nattokinase and baby aspirin/plavix. He said he would spend the money not on CT but on a microbiome test to optimize the gut. He said he would not recommend statins. Diet, lifestyle, low inflammation, and thinning the blood from the clotting effects of Lp(a).

[@luciavasile2895]

This was so awesome❤. Thank you Dave👌🤙🏻👍🫶 Thank you dr. Nadir, you have my respect, becouse i did watch the youtube video about how much milions, and billions big pharma and doctors to keep patients sick😢😢😢. My own mama was a twice cancer survivor😢, and she died from toxic meds, becouse she trust her doctors, just like i my self almost died in 2022😢 from toxic meds, becouse i was ( no more) trusting doctors for over 36 years😢😢😢😢. Thank you dr. Nadir Ali🙏🤝🤲, dr. Ken Berry👍🫶👌, for teaching me and millions of people about PROPER HUMAN DIET💪🧠🫀🫁🦷🦴👀, and not taking anymore those toxic meds, that kills people, not cure them😢😢😢

[@haydeeramos7839]

DR Ali. Thank you for those wonderful explanations ❤

[@kevinlindsay5255]

Dr Nadir Ali was truly remarkable, honest and Erudite. It was a pleasure to watch all three give their honest opinions on a very complicated subject but More unbiased research is needed to get to the truth. Lifestyle and diet must be first looked at before pills/drugs are used.

[@cyberfunk3793]

"Lifestyle and diet must be first looked at before pills/drugs are used." Why? If you suggest people they go vegan, they probably won't. If you suggest they start exercising, they probably won't but if you give them a pill that lowers their LDL and probably reduces their heart attack risk, they more often take it. So why not take the pill anyway if it's beneficial and try to add the things people usually don't do anyway like better diet and exercise?

[@kevinlindsay5255]

@@cyberfunk3793 the simple answer is side effects the drugs have

[@Gregory-kv8vj]

​@@cyberfunk3793 Well, the pill has a cost in money and in serious side effects, and the dietary changes need not be as dramatic as going vegan or keto or low carb. It is relatively easy to dump the highly processed carbs, including flour, replacing with vegetables and replace the seed oils with animal fats or coconut oil or ghee, or EV olive oil or avocado oil, as well as minimizing sugar. Don't avoid red meat but use grass fed if possible. It is also helpful to practice intermittent fasting and avoid snacking.

[@cyberfunk3793]

@@Gregory-kv8vj Dropping flour isn't going to lower LDL below 70mg/dl where atherosclerosis stops progressing. Why would anyone want to replace those seed oils that are in studies shown to not increase even inflammation to animal fats, which are the exact thing raising ApoB/LDL? Grass fed or not also makes no difference.

[@davidleong6606]

Good conversation from the 3 panelists! They have so much in-depth perspectives and insight on pharmaceutical research, Cardiovascular, Lipid and Metabolic systems. They know their facts well, can communicate the complex into simple understandable language that leads to a profound conclusion for us non-medical folks. Much appreciated!!!

[@jy4893]

Thank you so much for all of your hard work! You all are very dedicated Doctors and truly care about your patients. We need more doctors like you! God Bless 🙏

[@MrSouthstlouis]

Dr. Cromwell sounds like a politician. Ali sounds like a caring Doctor.

[@DrTomMD]

Don’t judge a book by its cover. I know Cromwell. He may not sound “warm n fuzzy”. But he is a golden soul, great and generous colleague

[@paxvista2]

He seems too defensive for the status quo in medicine, so, yes he does sound like a politician.

[@XiangLiu-z7d]

Ali sounds like a populist, but all three panelists are highly knowledgeable. I am a firm believer in scientific research, which likely will give us much better answers in the next 20 years.

[@porkpie2884]

@@DrTomMD He's wrong about LDL-ApoB causing disease though

[@DrTomMD]

@@porkpie2884 nope he’s not

[@karen96978]

Great to see this collaboration! As a lean mass hyper responder, I am interested in this topic

[@rayfih]

👏 Thank you for sharing! X

[@bobo-si3kw]

After 22 hours of fasting, and in the gym,-cardio, weights, and 20 minute sauna= total cholesterol-345, LDL-217, HDL-117, Triglycerides-53. Blood glucose similar-before bed, glucose-79, now after 18 hours, no food, in the gym, cardio, weights and 20 minute sauna, blood glucose up to 95.

[@SET12DSP]

The gym and the blood numbers are meaningless. The only real proof that you're doing well is a CAC score. Reversing mine on the Linus Pauling Heart Protocol. And I only walk.

[@mwhite1474]

Physiologic or mental stress increases cortisol levels. Cortisol causes the release of glucose through the breakdown of glycogen.

[@doddgarger6806]

Excellent 👌 in my opinion love the HDL to triglycerides ratio

[@rmohamed786]

The vilification of LDL is backed by trillions of dollars and established institutions that are entrenched with cognitive dissonance. Many Thanks to Doctors like Nadir Ali and people like Dave who are trying to let sense prevail

[@cyberfunk3793]

If the data shows a clear causal link between ApoB (LDL) and heart disease, it's "villification" ? Dave admits this himself, so you clearly aren't even listening to what he is actually saying.

[@kenadams5504]

Just because the importance of Apob /ldl is over-emphasised ,that doesn't mean it can't be a significant contributor to the atherosclerotic process .

[@defeqel6537]

@@kenadams5504 when we have people with 6-8 times the normal LDL living normally, we can have a pretty good idea that LDL is the least part of the process, if a part of it at all. Conversely, people with naturally high clotting factors, or blood pressure, get sick and die much younger. People with (lifestyle induced) high blood sugar, get sick and die younger too, as do people with high chronic inflammation, also when it is the result of excessive exercise. We shouldn't dismiss LDL, but focusing on it ahead of other lifestyle fixable, stronger, markers, is silly at best

[@SET12DSP]

@kenadams5504 You're right, but the point really missed. Sadly, it is focal vitamin C deficiency. How do I know this? How many people do you know that have reversed their CAC scores? I have as verified by CAC on the Linus Pauling Heart Protocol.

[@SET12DSP]

Agreeded, but what's really sad is the focal vitamin C deficiency. Reversing my CAC with the Linus Pauling Heart Protocol.

[@kathydicioccio6094]

Great session. Dr Ali is the personification of critical thinking. I think he rocked the room. Took everyone to school.

[@victorhauk5973]

We need to shift the paradigm, from seeing an opportunity to make a profit from a malady to understanding the malady and changing the environment to prevent it.

[@bezoar21]

Thank you for continue to post these, I contributed but was unable to attend in person and I am learning a lot!

[@seadroid]

Ok I'm ready to vote Dr. Nadir Ali for President

[@kroop5427]

Thank you!!

[@brendexxruiz]

Thank you for sharing! Very informative, very helpful. I have metabolic health issues with a calcium score of 189 after 35 years of being IDDM2. I’ve improved my lifestyle, lost weight, eating healthy keto, for past 2-3 yrs and I’ve discontinued a lot of my meds. Now only taking metformin & Lisinoprol. My goal is to be able to d/c metformin & htn meds someday. I’ve never felt better at age 60. My LDL is still high but I’m not going to focus on that anymore.

[@ArtU4All]

Yep… let the body decide on that number while the honest scientists study the true role it plays in our bodies ❤️🙏

[@johnk6578]

Love the debate.

[@jobrown8146]

Thank you. I have been able to make an informed decision about whether to take a statin because of videos like this. I'm a metabolically healthy 66 year old with CTA of 0 and an LDL of 300 (I'm *not* an LMHR). My cardiologist (Head of Cardiology in a large hospital in Australia) recommended low dose statin. I've said no thanks. I've been low carb for 2.5 years now and CTA was done after 1 year so it was not related to changing my diet. I'm thankful that I have had the CTA so I now have a benchmark.

[@kelbat1961]

Can I ask why you had the CT done in the first place? I have Paroxysmal Afib and high LDL and atherosclerosis, so it's impossible for me to convince a normal cardiologist I don't need a statin. I wish I still lived in Houston so I could be treated by Dr Ali.

[@Cenot4ph]

LMHR's do not exist, this is another construct / theory created by certain people that have no factual basis. Your LDL is at a level it needs to be at the moment you had it recorded as a fact and it changes constantly.

[@jobrown8146]

@@kelbat1961 Hi. Q: Are you on a low carb diet? If yes how long for? Do you plan on staying low carb? Answer to yours: My GP sent me off to the cardiologist because my dad died at 54 of a heart attack. GP wanted to do stress test (treadmill) and I said I cannot run because I have 2 tears in the left knee meniscus so he sent me off for the CTA. We don't need to convince our medical professional about not taking a statin. I'm in Australia so we don't have the same issues about doctors that the USA has. From what I have been noticing online Americans can be "fired" by their doctor, or they can have issues changing doctors because of their insurance. If you have decided not to take a statin, you will need to find ways to work around their suggestion/recommendation so that you can continue to see them or change your doctor/cardiologist. Some people online say that they accept the statins but don't take them. Some have told the doctor that they don't want to take the statin and the doctor has recorded that they are non-compliant.

[@SeaStarGazer1111]

I’m on low carb/keto. Last year my Tot Chol was 195; LDL 125; HDL 62; Triglyc 30. Have had 2 CCTA’s 3y apart (2018 & 2021) both showed zero blockages. My GP wanted to put me on a Statin. I refused. CVD & cardiac arrest run in my father’s family. I’m not concerned.

[@jobrown8146]

@@SeaStarGazer1111 Thank you for commenting. My LDL was 200 just before starting low carb. My last blood test about 1 year ago LDL had gone up to 300 from 250 6 months before, but trigs had gone down and HDL gone up, my fasting insulin was 5 which shows that I am insulin sensitive. My liver function tests AST and ALT were great showing that my liver is working well. There are many people commenting online saying that their LDL went up after starting low carb. One video talks about a theory that when you are in the weight loss stage that it can go up and then go back down once your weight has normalised. It will be interesting to see what mine is next time because my weight is back to normal now.

[@RoyalByrd520]

My doctor didn't even talk to me. He sent me a message though the health app that I had the highest LDL he'd ever seen. Without response, the next thing I got was a text from pharmacy that my script for Crestor was ready.

[@emeeorozco7254]

😰

[@ArtU4All]

This approach is that of a technician’s. Protocol: if this, then that. Why get an MD education and training? A computer can manage a disease per the patient’s dataset …..

[@jillherbert782]

Me too. Exactly

[@BuddhasBrewKombucha]

Sounds like my experience! I made an appt with Dr Nadir Ali

[@kenadams5504]

My Doc recommended a statin , so I got a cac scan, which showed zero 'calcified' plaque .In case I have soft plaque that will harden because of my keto diet ,I'll get another cac annually .

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

Dr. Ali is awesome!!!!!

[@danielmccarthyy]

I love Dr. Ali and Dr. Scher. I applaud Dr. Cromwell being brave enough to step outside of the cardiology echo chamber to seek new data and new answers.

[@RichardFeinman-yf7lx]

Around 16:00 the talk is all about variability and individual patients and reasonable analysis. This is exactly what you don’t get from establishment medicine. AMA, AHA, ADA, etc. are not modest or tolerant at all. And the extent to which individual doctors are open to change, that is, extent to which they follow the party line. Now, that’s variable.

[@ellamatheson]

Thank you SO much! I appreciate this discussion, very informative with suggestions for further research 🤓

[@jgbd4242]

What Dr. Nadir speaks is the truth! Lifestyle is 🗝️.

[@jonathanmagic5633]

I live in Australia I'm 65yo and my Dr wanted to put me on a statin purely because of my age regardless of how healthy my LDL and CAC score was ( which were both excellent) because well that's what the medical profession does and it needs to change.

[@britneygomez5060]

1:02:09 look at William Cromwells face, 😮 when Nadir mentiones how everyone should look up their doctors on dollars for docs by Propublica (please do) to see how much your doctor has received by drug or device companies... So I did and William Cromwell JUST in 2018 made $280,206 from pharma...(CHECK FOR MORE YEARS) Just goes to show you how this debate stands

[@BeefNEggs057]

Nice! Not surprised and it’s gross

[@mattbmartin]

Do you work for free? Of course you don't. Having skilled, smart physicians working in the science of medicine is critical to having the best therapies instead of snake oil.

[@Mark-h2p4u]

@@mattbmartin I think she is saying if you are being paid by big pharma - then they will support the drugs - which was very obvious in his opinions

[@jimosborne2]

@@mattbmartinno one is suggesting that the doctor work for free- but we understand that many doctors - like politicians- take huge sums of money from pharmaceutical companies in addition to their salaries- and then claim that this money doesn’t affect their opinions or credibility. We all understand and agree that money- a so called campaign contribution- is nothing more than legalized bribery- but you apparently believe that doctors are different. Medical malpractice including the overprescribing of medications is the third leading cause of death in the USA. So like with any product sold on TV or through the media, spending money affects human behavior or they wouldn’t be spending billions on TV ads and making huge financial contributions to doctors and hospitals.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

​@@jimosborne2 THANK YOU!❤

[@cynthiaharrington9886]

Just found this upload. I don't get enough Nadir Ali these days.

[@lisabanner5125]

Love Dr Nadir! Brilliant!

[@markleblanc451]

Nadir is right. We need to dump the LDL hypothesis all together and start over!

[@nocarbsnation]

I wish a clinical trial could be done on me. Seriously. I have charted my blood work going back to 2012, and have been low carb since December of 2017. I have experienced many benefits of the low carb lifestyle (no more T2D, Sleep Apnea, GERD, brain fog, and more), but have extremely frustrating lipids (HIGH total cholesterol and HIGH LDL despite drastically improving my Triglycerides (260's down to the 80's) and "good" HDL numbers. I have had a CAC test done, LDL-P test, ApoB, as well as a CTA with contrast, but the LDL and ApoB numbers continue to be "alarming" (per my doctor). While the above info is very high level, I feel my data and results can be a good case and potentially help others having the same issues for any scientific or medical professional willing to take the time for a deeper dive/study. I will happily volunteer my time and data.

[@atoms-to-atoms]

in 2 weeks I can see the difference!

[@nocarbsnation]

@@atoms-to-atoms that's great!

[@DrJK-wm9ec]

I respect Dr Cromwell for coming to present on a topic when most of the audience does not believe the lipid hypothesis. I absolutely love Dr Nadir and Dr Schur….and Dr David Diamond in the audience. Thank-you Dave Feldman for hosting these fabulous cardiac experts so they can have this open discussion!

[@LadyBug1967]

Wm9, hold your respect for Dr Cromwell tol you see that in 2018 he got from the pharmaceuticals $280, 206. He came for the pharmaceuticals I'm sure the pharmaceuticals paid him to come. He spoke as you may have noticed in the most scientific terms he could use such that a lot of people would not understand and only the doctors on the panel would truly understand every word he said. HE did this on purpose to use his authority even if it's a false authority to try to intimidate others and still he failed. ALL I can say is --thank God for Dr Ali, a man who speaks truth.

[@thatrealwebsitegirl]

Love love love Dr. Ali

[@DK-pr9ny]

Cromwell squirming in his seat lol..

[@ArtU4All]

LDL was nicknamed “bad” for the lay market to sell the pill. The full understanding and appreciation for LDL’s role took the back burner. Well, whatever was simmering on that burner is drying out and is ready to “start burning”

[@Takepermission1975]

Love your work Dave

[@joecephus4151]

Very informative, I always enjoy hearing from all sides.

[@L.R.L.]

Great panel. Educational and thoughtful answers. In reality, this open minded thinking is not filtering down to many doctors. What has to happen before doctors stop auto prescribing statins without discussion with or education of patients?

[@ArtU4All]

I will tell you what: Pharma must stop averaging an individual to the populations. Protocols must be abolished. “Metrics” on which MDs are “evaluated” must be forbidden. The thrust to computerize everything-healthcare in the last 25 years needs to back off. Maybe,healthcare should have remained the cottage industry it was 50 years ago - individualized. And abolish health insurance concept. Let those premiums go into our health savings accounts instead of the insurance companies’. Let the best doctor prevail. We will vote with our $$$$

[@markclark9830]

the one big takeaway is the question of who really benefits from these clinical studies. The most beneficial studies are the ones not performed by the self-interested. If COVID did not bring this issue to the fore then nothing will.

[@victoriar9728]

Wow! I love these debates. it opened my eyes

[@judyhein3737]

Love Dr Nadir and Dave Thank you both for what you do

[@dr.marypardee7668]

William Cromwell is so well-spoken in this discussion. Very impressed. Great discussion

[@sylvialander7034]

You guys are the saviors of the patients who are now under control of big money pharma.....Goverment has to fund new research targeting what history has proved with results....thanks god you guys are in planet earth❤❤

[@Knowledge-b6o]

DR ALI IS AMAZING AND HONEST

[@michellehamilton4075]

This is definitely a step in the right direction.

[@isabel313258]

I’m a healthy 59 year old who exercises 4-5 times per week eat clean and my ldl is high my doc put me on a statin . I took it for a year and started getting foot cramps . I thought this is my body telling me to stop this poison. I will never take this meds again

[@francostacy7675]

What made you think foot cramps were caused by your statin?

[@diegodesouza9697]

Because he stop taking it and the cramps went away. Maybe because of that.

[@Jhadyspeaks]

Thank you for this very informative debate. Thanks to all the doctors and Dave for doing this. Hope more debate like this in the future

[@notyermonkey2134]

It is interesting how at the start of this debate, William Cromwell seemed to sneer confidence. He looked rather deflated at the end. In my opinion the most competent speaker on stage was Dr Nadir.

[@carlloeber]

This is absolutely amazing..

[@sajjadhamadani6303]

Nadir makes sense. 6 years of discarding Statins, sticking to low carb and high fat food made my LDL go up but sharpen my memory.

[@ravisivasekaram6272]

As Dr. Nadir Ali eluded in the Q&A about Pharma using relative benefits to push medication while ignoring potential side effects and harm, worse too is mainstream medicine aka the physicians/ clinicians being complacent / and sometimes in cohoots. Is like an Auto maker or an Airline manufacturer claiming relative safety to sell. The latter will never be allowed, nor would consumers accept it. We would have litigations and class actions. Not to mention Congregational hearings demanding safety test results.

[@jimmyg3855]

I appreciate Dr Cromwell having an open mind gentle nuance reaction, unfortunately at a GP and cardiologist level they gaslight you and label you non compliant even if you change your lifestyle and reduce your overall risk, especially for secondary treatment. Statin or. Nothing and I don’t care about your side affects your throwing years away!

[@delwoodkelp8590]

The comments clearly show that everyone loves the doctor that agrees with their prior opinion. Their favorite doc has all the correct facts and is obviously more "caring". Humans are so blind as to how their bias impacts that which they agree upon. We see in presidential elections and in medical opinions. We love what agrees with our view.

[@francostacy7675]

So which one do you agree with

[@BirgittaWhite]

Wonderful and very informative

[@Curious-o9q]

Loved that comment "you will see that the emperor does not have any clothes" That sums it up perfectly.

[@debbieclark813]

Fabulous! ❤

[@turne52]

It seems funny that the guy in the middle decided to sit closer to the other guy. Dr Nadir is excellent

[@Jupiter_Crash]

Actually it was Nadir who moved his chair away from the others. Practice not jumping to conclusions based on confirmation bias.

[@genarodiaz699]

As a drone photographer I will tell you what I have learned: I have taken photographs from the air of all the fires that have occurred near my city and I have been able to find out one thing: can't you imagine who appears in all my photographs? ........ firefighters ..... firefighters are to blame for all fires ...... therefore LDL cholesterol has to be to blame for all blockages in the arteries.. .... (what I don't understand is why they don't block the veins? ...... this was said by a very very wise doctor)

[@-What-are-your-thoughts]

I believe it’s because there is more pressure being put on the arteries.

[@JayJay-un3rp]

Good debate, one thing I would say is that those who are on keto and have CVD, one must remember that the progression of CVD probably started in their infancy well before anybody even knew what a keto diet is. Most of these people will have only been on a keto diet for the last five years from which point they already accumulated arterial plaque from poor metabolic health in previous years. The best test will be those with no signs of CVD who then go on a prolonged keto diet. It would also have been good if they had debated a little bit about CIMT scans and their ability to predict arterial blockage.

[@jonmoceri]

AI will be useful in routine care, like suggesting tests for symptoms and then suggesting diagnosis based on the test results. It could reduce bias in testing and diagnosis. But if it just follows flawed research, it'll just recommend the treatments suggested by the flawed research.

[@defeqel6537]

Best case scenario the AI would learn as it goes

[@ardeeaitch7148]

i love the way dr nadir destroys cromwells lies

[@ksivasankaram]

Well said. Dr Cromwell sounded more a politician scientist.

[@brenttuttle7268]

Come on Dr. ALI.......TELL US HOW YOU REALLY FEEL 🤣🤣🔥

[@kathydicioccio6094]

❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@mark11145]

I believe the prevalence of adverse effects of all drugs, and particularly statins are under reported. The reason being that the average person has a sub par physical and mental awareness. It literally takes a big effect for them to realize something is amiss in the body. Few individuals have a high enough self awareness to report a low level effect.

[@defeqel6537]

and especially effects over time are difficult to notice and not chalk up to aging, etc.

[@petercyr3508]

I still want to know: what about partial responders like me? Age 66, always in ketosis etc.. LDL way up like 280, my triglycetide always a bit high at around 120 and HDL always a bit low at 50. Dr Ali is my doctor. When he says lipotixicity, he means me. Different topic: As far as I know, Dave concedes LDL is a risk factor. Needs to listen to Dr Ali on that. More food for thought. My wife age 70 meets all the criteria of a LMHR. Her labs are stellar. Only thing is she is not lean. She has poor musculature. Her large number of super healthy fat cells is actually protective. If she put on 50 lb, I am sure things would be different.

[@danvdr]

I would like to hear more about that group also. Me: BMI around 25; 62 y.o. M. When I went low carb 8 1/2 years ago my cholesterol jumped--LDL usually above 300. But, like you, trigs 120-240; HDL low 40's. However I'm not too worried since LFTs, CRP and insulin are low; and probably more importantly I've had two CACs in that time both with a score of 0.

[@thalesnemo2841]

@@danvdr Awesome! LDL is a NOT a metric of concern!

[@kelbat1961]

What does Dr Ali recommend for lipotoxicity?

[@petercyr3508]

Obviously, first, being a fat adapted fat burner producing ketones. Then simply eating less fat. I do this by cutting out dairy and going carnivore. No more veggies swimming in butter or salads covered with dressing. The only fat I eat comes with the meat and eggs I eat. Dr Ali has a video explaining how too much dietary fat can overwhelm the liver for some people especially if you cary the ApoE4 gene like me. ​@@kelbat1961

[@tradermunky1998]

​@@danvdrI would say your CAC says it all.

[@HarisAzakidis]

Amazing conversation!

[@juanpablosanchezaveleyra6454]

WOW, that first answer set the tone of the debate very well. That was reasonable, as reasonable as no vegan activist can be.

[@johnny7808]

The 64k question is who is more right, Ali or Cromwell. Cromwell contends the correct term for any apob-containing particle is one word, atherogenic, with the caveat that the degree of atherogenicity is buffered by context. Ali contends that conclusion is not warranted given the unusual narrowness of who funds most cvd research, who were the (metabolically sick) subjects, how unseriously both negative effects of statins and positive effects of ldl levels have yet been studied. It surprises me that Cromwell is not more vocal about the importance of lp-ir given he practically invented it. Low lp-ir was ancestrally normal when cvd was rare, cvd is now normal and low lp-ir is rare. And ldl had a very random high p-value relationship to plaque level in BOTH cohorts of the KETO-CTA study as announced a few months ago. I suppose my beef is I wish he called apob potentially atherogenic instead of simply atherogenic. In any case its great to have him and Krauss as part of lmhr research otherwise we'd no doubt look like a bunch of ldl cheerleaders lol.

[@Jojo-o6o6w]

wow, my doctor made nearly 900 thousand in one year from pharma payments :(