Mid-Range DD Shootout | Ultimate Comparison of all 10-12Nm Direct Drive Wheelbases

[@thomasv301]

This is the one I've been waiting for! Finally, thanks Laurence! And Fanatec not even in the ball park with their outdated stuff and no QR update (although promised ages ago) Still really really happy with my Simagic Mini. 1,5 year of use and no issues what so ever.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

awesome! Thanks for the great comment. I'm happy when people are happy :D

[@hernanialves6938]

same here

[@errolchanner]

fantastic video, I ended up buying the Alpha mini. Ill get the cable to just incase of any connection issues.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Nice! Enjoy

[@dark4yoyo]

I did alot of research as well before buying my Alpha Mini, and don't regret that choice. One thing I'm surprised you didn't dock any points for is that you can't get the La Prima without their "formula" wheel. For me that was an instant disqualification as I'm not interested in those types of wheels at all (as I do 95% drifting), and I certainly didn't want to have to mess with selling a brand new wheel. I got my Alpha Mini with just a quickrelease to add on a real car steering wheel that I already had, lowered the cost of entry quite significantly.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Good point. And something that others will need to consider too. I really hope they release a round rim or universal button plate

[@DT52Photos]

Thanks so much. Can't imagine the amount of time invested in creating this incredible review. It truly helps many of us who are "on the fence" with regards to purchasing. I must admit I have a soft spot for Logitech after racing with a G25/G27 for 15 years. Been on a Fanatec CSW v2.5 for a while now but certainly want more. I feel like an 8Nm CSL DD would be a lateral move. I keep seeing many reviews that fall right in line with what you've said here regarding the Logi. There are several negatives that are pretty hard to overlook (price, huge base, NO ecosystem) but the actual build quality and performance seem to run neck and neck with anything else in this category. I've even read a few comments where people said once they've driven with TrueForce, they couldn't imagine going back. I can only hope additional wheel rims come onto the market soon. It would be a shame for what seems to be a very fine product to continue to fly under the radar like it does.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks for the great comment!

[@Ryan6y]

The CSL DD is terrible

[@guidofoc7057]

@@Ryan6y Hm? I love mine. Can you elaborate?

[@crawfordbrown75]

Finally somebody did it- You absolute legend! Just hoping you dont make me feel stupid for getting an alpha mini now - even if was a year ago

[@thomasv301]

Nope, we made a great choice. ;)

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

hahaha nah the alpha mini is a solid purchase.

[@martijnp4313]

Great video as always, Laurence! Personally, I think that if you give the Asetek a 9 for wheel choice because their (€150) adapter makes it so open - thus compensating for having only 2 formula wheels, of which 1 is part of a bundle - then Moza and Simagic should get a 10 because they have much more wheels in the ecosystem and 3rd party wheels can easily be fitted with a cheap NRG-adapter. Having a USB cable running is less neat than the Asetek solution, but not a big deal in my opinion. I would also give Logitech a 5 at most for Ecosystem, because the difference with Thrustmaster should be more than 1 point.. But that's me nitpicking. Again, great video!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Yeah it’s funny because some people have complained about the score for asetek’s wheel choice as they personally don’t have much choice. But that’s the beauty of this system. You can adjust it accordingly.

[@anticalgary]

Simagic for the win!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Simagic is good. There's room for improvement though :D But we're lucky to have this level of competition

[@DrR1pper]

@@LaurenceDusoswa are you referring to finer details in the FFB with simagic wheelbases versus Asetek wheelbases?

[@JamesPeer-g8p]

​@@DrR1pperi dont know, but at that time one of the Things He probably meant was the Software, but im pretty Sure that changed alot from Last year.

[@hawkinthepark]

I've been using the La Prima for a month now, and I'm absolutely mindblown with how good the build quality and force feedback is! The wheel itself is maybe not the most attractive (I kinda like the design tho), but the buttons, handles and shifters are ACE! Very excited to see what wheels they will release in the future. Glad I choose this ecosystem.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I agree

[@BeroTTo]

So my friend, which one would you choose for drifting?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Simagic is king for drifting

[@RacingAnt]

I feel you've given the La Prima credit for it's amazing QR in 2 columns - wheel choices and QR. With only 2 native wheels, I'd give it a 7 for wheel choices, and leave the 10 in the QR, as it gets an extra point over Moza & Simagic for allowing easy use of other wheels.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Very fair comment. I weighed it on the things that are important to me. Also, I know that they will be coming out with more wheel rims and I don’t want this video to age poorly. I thought long and hard about the scores I gave but did it in this way so that you can adjust accordingly and make your own educated decisions

[@RacingAnt]

@@LaurenceDusoswa yep, really like the format, with the vid giving really clear reasons behind the scores. It tells me that the Moza is only the equal of the other 2, as it's cheaper. For most people, it may come down to which is readily available locally. I would need to import the Asetek, which adds significant cost, whereas the Moza and Simagic are stocked locally.

[@stevenjarvis9702]

​@@LaurenceDusoswa😊

[@unotoli]

@@LaurenceDusoswa Asetek got rims now, plus it has "open" QR. Meanwhile, Fanatec made DD/DD+ worth comparison, with QR2 being a blocker or very expensive option at the moment. PS please try to use all 0-10 range or just descend to "5starts" ;)

[@kisiel246840]

The reason why simagic is stronger than 12nm moza is that moza talks about nm peak while simagic is about constant force.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

yep I mentioned that I think :D

[@antonissar4739]

lol what you say? You dont undestood how to bases works

[@JoeBlow-ub1us]

@@antonissar4739 That's ironic...

[@FlamingCurtain]

I only wish their round wheels weren’t terrible and expensive or I would buy alpha mini

[@The_-_Futurist24]

What's wrong with their round wheels? Curious because I'm leaning towards Simagic Alpha Mini over Moza but I want a round wheel for rally and drifting (eventually want a Formula wheel , but both moza and simagic have ones I like for F1)

[@dogoncouch7818]

Great video. I like how much information is provided. Your reviews are valuable even if I have different priorities and opinions than you do, because of the level of detail, really appreciate that.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks so so much for the kind words

[@tdhitchins]

Got the Simagic alpha mini and was thinking I might need to switch and payout more money. So glad you’ve compared here mate, thanks :) mainly I’m glad you’ve compared them to be the same performance!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

The mini is a great bit of kit. I'm not surprised it did well but Simagic needs to up their game if they want to be the best

[@tdhitchins]

@@LaurenceDusoswa you can use the Leoxz wheels with their wheelbases, they’re supposed to be really good. 3 variants of pretty much the same wheel tho tbh but they’ve had good reviews. However yes, they do seem to have been rather quiet themselves

[@RacingAnt]

Upgrade to the Alpha, or Alpha U, and keep all your wheels..

[@DrR1pper]

@@LaurenceDusoswa up their game in which aspects please Laurence?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

@@DrR1pper improve software, which they did. Offer a cheap great gt/formula rim, which they did. They’re just missing a good $300 round rim.

[@mciarlillo1309]

Awesome content and thanks for all the legwork! I ended up picking up the Asetek TK Wheel Base @ my local Micro Center!

[@bonedawgstudio5649]

Good score. That's what did as well. TK base for 400usd then bought the Forte Button Box and round leather rim from Asetek website. Cheaper than comparable Simagic kit and loving it. Also found a TK formula rim for 200usd a few weeks later at a store an hour away and snagged that too. A steal for TK branded Forte Formula wheel.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

NOTE: Regarding Simagic FFB. Please note that this video is based on my review and experience with my Alpha mini. The latest Alpha minis do have slightly software limited peak torque apparently. I'm assured that it does not affect the FFB but I am also very aware that usually more power gives better ffb. For that reason, your ffb experience with the Alpha mini may not be AS good as mine was. I should really do another review of the latest model once I clear my review backlog. Product Links (Affiliate links) Asetek: bit.ly/LD-ASETEK Simagic (Abruzzi): bit.ly/LD-Abruzzi Simagic (RaceAnywhere): www.raceanywhere.co.uk/collections/simagic?sca_ref=3314072.sTzEIkQrrO MOZA: bit.ly/LD-MOZA MOZA (Abruzzi): bit.ly/LD-Abruzzi Logitech (US): logi.gg/boostedNA Logitech (EU): logi.gg/boostedEU Thrustmaster: www.thrustmaster.com/en-us/homepage/

[@gregdoucet3721]

@LaurenceDusoswa With the alpha mini software update, do you know if it would put your force feedback rating below at or below what the R12 is? I’m currently between these 2 options as they’re easiest to get in Canada. I had my mind made up on the Mini until I stumbled across this note 😵 just wondering how much the mini would be affected if at all.

[@michakesicki831]

Testing different product that is beeing sold is misleading

[@robblack8754]

Nice comparison and video. One thing to keep in mind with the Logitech Pro is that according to your findings, it is a solid wheel and its shortcomings are in wheel choice and ecosystem, two categories that as you said, could easily change within a year. Then the other category it scored low in is form factor which is something many may not truly care about.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

yep. that's why i use this system of comparing. I can only go off what is available today though, if I reviewed stuff based on potential and promises then they wouldn't have much value

[@hawkeyesdriftgarage9147]

I love my Simagic Mini and Ecosystem. The quality is top notch in my opinion!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Yep the quality is really good

[@TooToo246]

Now with the new FFB 3.0 update, I think you should bump the Moza R12 FFB experience from an 8 to a 9 or maybe even 10 Randomcallsign put the Moza R12 on the same level as the Club Sport DD after testing the FFB 3.0 update, so there's that

[@BobK58]

I'm puttering around with a G920 attached to my desk. It works and it was cheap. I'm happy.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

spending money doesn't make you faster :D and it certainly doesn't make you enjoy the racing more

[@FatswellSmart]

@@LaurenceDusoswa coming from a driving force gt with g25 pedals i can say that those p2000 pedals instantly shaved 9s off my best times and now I can feel the car which in turn has increased my enjoyment and it's all thanks to your reviews.

[@seaweedbeard]

@@FatswellSmart 9s?! Unless we're talking Targa Florio or maybe Nordschleife I get it, but a regular 1-3 minute circuit I don't think the gear was the problem here.

[@FatswellSmart]

@@seaweedbeard yes it was on the nordschleife and i stand by what i said.

[@seaweedbeard]

@@FatswellSmart Ah well in that case, congrats! I was thinking like Monza and wondering how you manage a consistent 9s off the pace

[@starfishh7]

Thanks for the video!! How do you think the new Fanatec Clubsport DD+ would rank here? Cheers

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I won’t know until I try. My guess is that it will come in close to the top two

[@dannyadams5250]

Well done. I had to put upgrading my wheel base off until my remodeling of my home was completed. That has given me the opportunity to see the competition in this area of gear to grow. With so many choices, it really helps to have content like this to help make decisions. Thank you so much.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks for the support! Yeah this is kinda like watching 5 reviews at once 😅🤣🫣

[@acf1376]

Hi Laurence, I know this review is old, so not sure you'll see this message. I love these comparisons, by far the best I've found. One thing, instead of comparing by NM, I'd compare it by price range. With a big price difference among these products 10-12NM bases, people don't really buy by NM rating but, the highest NM they can afford. ie. La Prima sells at the same price as the newest Moza R16, so....why would you buy a "weaker" base, well, your chart can tell us if LaPrima (in this example) has better software, FBB, etc.

[@platnumfox]

Would like to add the pedals to next review, as quite an important part of the descision for me, great open unbiased information. Keepem komen

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I should do a pedals review like this. It’s just rare that I get the full range in a certain category so this was a timely video. There are so many pedal sets out there that I haven’t used yet 😅

[@eagletrippin]

This is an amazing video, it really helped me to narrow down what I wanted. In last few days, I've had orders for Moza, Asetek, and Simagic wheelbases placed.😂 Ultimately i went with Simagic and cancelled the other two.👍🏾(The Alpha 15nm, to be exact; albeit slightly beyond the scope of this video, but the same price as the La Prima) Thank you!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

AWESOME!!! thanks for the kind words and happy racing!

[@TiredBoiTV]

First person to compare r12 and simagic mini very nice

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks! Share it with your community!

[@estheticdesigns]

The clear winner : Asetek Tony Kannan bundle at $800 . Would score higher on price, and it's additional I/0 and Prima/Forte features adds further value and upgradeability.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Yeah that’s a crazy bargain. No need to even think at that price

[@robhoofs3932]

@LaurenceDusoswa, at the moment I am using a fanatec csl dd 8nm with mclaren steering wheel. But if I would change my base and wheel then the asetek la prima and simagic alpha mini would be a good choice I think. But which one is actually better ffb wise? The simagic is cheaper then the asetek but is that the only difference? How is the software for the asetek compared to the simagic?

[@lewisgordon1490]

Probably your best vid yet. I especially liked how you showed how we could tweak the numbers to suit our own preferences & enough info to do a decent job if the wheel(s) weren't exactly the same as u talked about, yet the whole vid wasn't overly long. If one wants more info on a particular item, watch a video on just that. (Boosted Media's tend to be way too long IMO, but I guess good if you want every possible bit of info on that particular product). I don't know if it was announced B4 this but Assetek & Simagic maybe should have gotten slightly higher ratings bk of their hub/ button boxes that u can get separately and put any wheel u want on them. Assetek's wheels seem all very good at each one's price point but not much affordable wheel options.

[@reviewforthetube6485]

Simagic all the way baby there arttings matter so much and i wish most knew a trick that worns so well. Turn interpelation up all the way then lower smoothness to 1 and boom all the detail you could ask for while being smooth as a babies bottom lol. Learned this trick from someone whos been into sim racing for 15 years and seems to know how to dial in every wheelbase. Hes awesome. I know you know alot im not stating anything about you. You are knowledgable but this is for others who want to know in the comments.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I actually put interpolation to 0 to start with too and then turn it up if needed. That can have varying results from sim to sim and even car to car

[@reviewforthetube6485]

@LaurenceDusoswa true I have found my ultimate though doesn't hsve a single notch. No middle notch even. So I can actually use smoothness at 0 if I wanted to I have been adjusting interpelation right now it's at 4. So yeah I get what you are saying.

[@reviewforthetube6485]

@LaurenceDusoswa you know what's funny? Over the past week I've learned I enjoy the vibrations and some slight noises from the base. I don't like reducing them I like all of the details. I love hpw the base when at high rpm in the car just like real life you can feel the wheel matching the cars rpm as if a real car would In person. I can feel the lows mids and highs. So I'm finding I don't like drowning those out. Idk why anybody would want to reduce details and then complain about not having details all because they may hear slight frequencies and that's for any base. But I have so much details set times it shakes my rig and I absolutely love that. I think my point is ever since a few years ago there is one youtuber I shall not name and with any base in general they explained what they didn't like or unwanted effects and ever since then people hsve need drowning out details just to be vibrations gone, sound gone and they don't realize reducing everything is going to reduce the other details you want to feel. Ive found a whil back I don't mind what some call unwanted effects. I actually enjoy them and want to feel every little raw feeling. You know why? Bevause when in a real stock car or street car with suspension for a racing setup those effects are also felt in the car! People go I wsnt realism I wsnt realism. Yet any slight vibration or noise they go omg how do I get this gone. Any little oscillation they want gone. I'm like what are you doing? Do yall know how aggresive a real car is you vibrate. Shake rock, bounce and there is tons of noise. Simucube and simagic have both found ways to acruslly utilize said high low and mid frequencies for details. Simucube has explained they rven use there coil whine for details and that if they reduced it that would actually hurt there ffb implementation. So people should just enjoy and embrace these things. After literally a few hours if you try adjusting them out you actually miss the feeling. If that one youtuber who again I won't name never talked about his opinion on unwanted effects people would have never thought this way. We would embrace and enjoy these brands implementations like simicube and others. But when you reduce so much you just feel the base feeling like a spring without true interactive details that are raw ans aggresive then you are missing out on so much! Again not you, other people in the community etc.

[@SticksAandstonesBozo]

Came across a few of your videos now and gotta say I do like the things you lay out. I’m about to drop 12-1500 upgrading and there is literally zero content comparing allllllll the options currently.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks for the support! Videos like this are tough to do. It was the right time and the right place for it :)

[@Mark3FocusRS]

Excellent review! I love my Alpha Mini and GTS wheel.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

You’re very welcome. Glad you’re enjoying it. Any of these bases can bring a loting joy.

[@soccersensation]

Great video! Thanks for explicitly stating early that the Logitech is the only one compatible with consoles. People tend to leave out this fact when reviewing DD Wheelbases. It's pretty much the only proper option for those on consoles.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks for the comment :D Yeah there are still loads of comments about console compatibility but that's life :p

[@TheRealTyphon]

Moza is entering the Console market. Which will most likely kill Logis DD because after owning it myself can say. It’s fairly underwhelming. 1000 dollars and you get full plastic construction. 😐 It seemed cool when I first got it. Until I saw what that same money could get me from a company like Moza. Not to mention logis complete and utter silence regarding any new hardware coming.

[@soccersensation]

@@TheRealTyphon I got the PRO set since my comment and I've had no problems with it. We can all agree it's expensive and large (compared to other manufacturers) but the quality of it isn't debatable. It's one solid set and works perfectly. Since then I also built a new gaming PC and enjoy the other SIM titles not on console. The biggest disappointment is that Logitech hasn't brought out anything since. No wheel, shifter, handbrake, nothing.

[@TheRealTyphon]

@@soccersensation guess we disagree on quality’s for a grand I expect literally anything else than plastic. With Moza 1000 dollars gets you real forged carbon fiber and an aerospace grade aluminum base. 🫤 (or at least they claim it’s aerospace grade) I am getting an R12. I’ll let you know how it holds up against the Logi if you want to hear my comparison. I have heard the FFB on the Moza is underwhelming and requires a lot of tuning to get right but that’s about all I’ve heard,

[@TheRealTyphon]

@@soccersensation like my experience with it has been good but that’s it. For console it’s a viable option for now as not many other brands are compatible with console. But for strictly PC there are definitely better options out there.

[@zzmadd]

I have the Alpha mini. I didn't expect a 10 in the FF. I'm coming from a CSL DD 8nm and I kind of liked the CSL DD output a bit better in Peak mode. The Alpha mini is slightly more powerful though. I agree with the Form Factor 10. The mini is fantastic and one of the reasons I got it was the fact the it just disappears and can have the monitors as low as possible in my rig, while for example the CSL DD was covering a portion of the car display shown by the monitor and I had to move the monitors further away.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Wow if your alpha mini is close to the CSL DD then that's very odd. It should eclipse it. Mine does.

[@zzmadd]

@@LaurenceDusoswa Did you use the 8nm in Peak mode all at max? I have to use the mini at 80% otherwise it clips too much...I'm talking about wuality of FF not intensity...maybe I was just used to the CSL DD.

[@JallyTee]

​@@zzmaddDo you have it at 80% in game or alpha manager software? I have the mini and I permanently have it set to 100% peak force then turn it down in the game settings otherwise you will just be nerfing it's power.

[@zzmadd]

@@JallyTee I have 100% in Simagic software and 82% in ACC.

[@zzmadd]

@@JallyTee yes 100% in Simagic software then 82% in ACC.

[@ghoste7546]

Hi Laurence, great detail review! But is the recent Moza fw upgrade resolved the lower FFB details issues? Thanks a lot!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I haven’t tried it since

[@Ben_LaBroca]

Wowza big video! Thanks for putting it together man. Look forward to watching but any perspective on how these bases compare to the accuforce v2?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I never reviewed the accuforce v2 unfortunately so i can’t offer any perspective

[@Ben_LaBroca]

@@LaurenceDusoswa No worries buddy - enjoyed the video! I have the accuforce base so am generally wondering whether it’s at all worth switching into a better ecosystem at the same Nm point. Will keep scouting.

[@deadmanwalking1930]

Im just waiting for black friday deals and will pick up the la prima base and wheel and use my Thrustmaster LC pedals. Love your enthusiasm and passion ❤️ keep up the good work

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Keep an eye on www.laurencedusoswa.com/black-friday-sim-racing-deals-2023/ for the latest offers ;)

[@deadmanwalking1930]

​​@@LaurenceDusoswaappreciate that, 5% is helpful. I'll order very soon.

[@troystevenson4038]

Great video! I feel like theees been alot of developments in the last year. 2024 update?!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Might be needed but I haven’t used the new Fanatec wheelbase. There are also other players coming to market which I haven’t used yet

[@Plutoman09]

Hi Laurence...just saw your video. I'm upgrading my sim stuff.. I'm looking at he Moza R16 v2, but the la Prima sounds just as good... Annnd I understand the La Prima is compaitble with third party sim wheels, probably Moza or Simagic ....Your thoughts ?? LOL Cheers !!

[@GG-si7fw]

Great format. The only thing to for us to do is go out and buy from from your link and go drive it. ...hey, what do we mount these on? Now you made more work for your self and need to do the same for desks, I mean rigs.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

hahaha I'd love to. These videos take a LOT of work though and you need access to the whole range. So the timing needs to be right. And this isn't my full time gig :D

[@jean-paulschmeitz5015]

Thanks for this amazing review. What about proving a diffrent weight to the categories? E.g. The most important FFB score * 1.2, Design not super important score * 0.9, etc

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Yep, adjust as you need to :)

[@massivebass2088]

Im coming from Fanatec CSW, used P1 wheel and MClaren V2 wheel, both broke down in the end: the weakpoint is always focussed at the connection area between wheel and base. Thats logic: your wheel acts as a lever, constantly stressing the axle also in the plane perpendicular to base-axle. My question: which brand has the strongest wheel-base interface ? (and less flex doesnt necesarily mean more robustness / longevity)

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

From what I have seen, moza, Simagic and Asetek are the winners there.

[@nigelobrien4335]

Quality as always LD

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks Nigel

[@jonbanaitis2992]

For someone racing 8 hours a day , what would you recommend for reliability , I heard issues with MOZA, Heard issues with Simagic I dont like the idea only warranty through reseller either and 1 year lowest warranty out of them all surprised you did not mention that in this review , but nothing about Logitech or Asetek . I'm after one without QC issues and reliability as they are all close I dont need connection issues for content or over heating and other known issues or just something that will die in 6 months from heavy heavy use, I have a Sc2 pro currently but this is for a second setup , I run one wheel only and thats it Nascar racing

[@gizmo104drives7]

Nice video mate. Appreciate the effort you put into this. I think for future comparisons price section could also include the overall cost of wheelbase with round wheel and formula wheel.. i like to think most people will want both wheels Cheers

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

yeah it's something I'd like to do but it gets complex because i don't always get sent both and in some cases (asetek, logitech), both aren't available

[@gizmo104drives7]

@LaurenceDusoswa very true mate although I have an r9 I'd say simagic could be the overall winner here as things stand.. kind of got the impression u think that aswell 🤣

[@fefefeehan]

Good comparison.the alpha mini is a beast!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks! Cheers for the comment

[@jakubmroz5824]

What should I pick if I dont care about formafactor and ecosystem. I care only about ffb quality and price. I'm keen on asetek but in my country it is 30% more expensive and my mind is blowing. Is asetek ( with steering wheel ) worth it, or should I just buy alpha mini with gt neo steering wheel ?

[@JallyTee]

Very glad i went for a alpha mini in the first week it came out, it was a big gamble because no reviews existed for it at the time. The only upgrade i want is the alpha U but to be honest I'm still very happy with the mini so i may never upgrade.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Nice. Yeah the U is a nice upgrade but only when you have the cash lying around

[@DanRuddick96]

love the video, watched it a couple of times now. I'm currently in the market for my first DD wheel and am torn between the Simagic Alpha 15nm base with GT1-SR wheel, and Moza R12 with the RS V2 wheel. If it was your own money which would you choose? or would you choose the Alpha Mini over both? there's too much choice!!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

While the RS v2 is a far better wheel than the GT1, the alpha is a far superior wheelbase to the r12. Simagic really needs a high end round rim but consider getting the alpha mini with the gt pro hub and then just fitting an aftermarket wheel to the gt pro hub. That will give you the best of all worlds. That being said, the moza r12 with RS is also a great option and probably the cheapest of the lot.

[@DanRuddick96]

@@LaurenceDusoswa thanks for the prompt reply, I think if its the base you recommend ill go for the Alpha and the GT1 wheel with the hopes that Simagic release a better round wheel in future. I intend to use a DS-8X shifter so one less piece of software running is always a good thing. thanks for your advice.

[@old-simracing-rookie]

Very smart review mate! thumbs up. i build my pc two years ago and i spend around 5/6months reading many many reviews, learning about combos, options or features i might need and specially focusing on firmware and software. Having a whole ecosystem managed from one tool which works clean and is not causing any lags or high latency but on the software level is the most important thing. I started with overclocking my cpu with a really well known tool but i then realized that monitoring my pc with hwinfo was causing issues but only when both apps were running. it took me again some months to learn how to oc in the bios directly but my systems runs so much cleaner without these apps. S also gigabyte gpus are great but their software is a crap and is causing issues with some asus firmwares when asus mainboard is used. Saying all this what has nothing to do with sim racing thanks to your review i would go with moza since i‘m far away from a pro - for me the moza has by far the best value for the money for everyone who wants to start with great entry direct drive sim setup and offers so many options to upgrade stepbystep. thanks for taking so much time for these reviews.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

You're very welcome! Glad it was useful for you

[@SMOKEY-Junior]

Top work bud. Im running an r9 atm with cs/gs wheels. Im happy with it tbh. Im sat on the fence to upgrade to an r21 🤔

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

If you can afford it, do it! Try at said I haven’t tried the R21. They’re sending me one for review. It’s the new model apparently

[@marcushillerstrom25]

I just can’t get over how you gave Asetek 9 in wheel choices 😅 it’s one wheel in two different materials.

[@josebarrios2464]

Great video, will you do a video comparing other wheelbases in the higher nm?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

If there's demand for it then yes. This is a unique scenario where I have reviewed all the main players. In high end, I'm missing the Fanatec DD1/DD2 unfortunately. Also missing the VRS.

[@Typhoon_Kill]

I would be more interested in a more detailed review on the FFB of the ones that scored a 10. I really don t care about Wheel choices (only race road) ecosystem (you can plug anything in the pc and miss match) or the form factor. So I bought a Logi and was really curious about the FBB quality compared to the others as that's the main thing that matters to me.

[@teggsy2165]

But the Logitech is fantastic for a desk setup as the desk clamp is solid. But make sure your desk is tough enough and heavy enough as is mine ive had my G Pro wheel pedals and adaptor for gear shifter since their launch had zero issues.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

yep! That desk clamp is like an engine mount.

[@heres_the_sauce]

Only reason I’d consider fanatec is PlayStation support. I wonder how far behind the dd1 is in performance to these

[@JatoItaliano]

Great review, I would only change one thing at all, that would give SIMAGIC the win: Build Quality, it's just sensational, it doesn't have a bad detail, a burr, any kind of slack, it's just a solid premium top. As you yourself said: "I've never had any problems, it's exceptional", for me that's a 10/10, even more so if you have an FX/FX PRO wheel.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

the same can be said for some of the others though :D

[@verasilva2018]

❤ Fantastic content!!! Well done Sir

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

cheers! Thanks for the comment!

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Great Comparision! Which I would value compactness a bit more in the form factor category then again iff you are looking for a wheelbase with that power maybe compactness is less of a factor.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Nice. You can adjust the scores as you would like to help to make your decisions :)

[@iulian2548]

Excellent round up! Which one would you recommend for a desk mount?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

While I haven't used them all with desk mount, the logitech one really really impressed me.

[@amokrace]

Amazing content. Thank you for this.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

You're very welcome! I hope it helps some people. Thanks for the comment

[@Slidjetster]

What would you say is lacking beside peak power from Moza's FFB compared to even the T818? Are the detail levels similar?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

The FFB is good, but it's just not as powerful. It's a close one to be honest between the TM and the MOZA. But the TM is 10Nm and the Moza is 12Nm. the MOZA should be far far more powerful but it's not. The TM is actually more powerful. As for details at the same amount of force, they're very similar.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

It is great for sim racing to have this level of compation at seemly every level!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

You’re very welcome! Thanks for a great comment

[@ohata0]

any plans to revisit this and add fanatec's clubsport dd to this comparison? not sure what the status of qr1 would be when you make that video, but maybe you could have 2 different scores for the qr in that case, 1 for qr1 and another for qr2? i'm upgrading my g25 and preordered the clubsport dd (my first dd wheel) and wrc wheel w/ the qr2, so it would be interesting to see it up against the competition.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Message Fanatec and ask them if I’m getting a CS DD for review 😅

[@ohata0]

@@LaurenceDusoswa might as well toss in a cs dd+ for good measure! 😁

[@GuppyMilk334]

Whats wrong with simagic software? I have never had any problems with it.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Watch the software section in my alpha u review ;)

[@RJ-cq8dd]

I miss a compatibility category. I really like to play older games like Dirt 2 and Dirt 3. My Pro plays these just fine in the G923 compatibility mode.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

That's something that's outside of my remit. I don't use those titles

[@JC-vc7tf]

Holy $hit! I can't believe you managed to put this all together - thank you!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

There are many months of work in this video :D Glad you enjoyed it

[@SEN_Relax]

great vid, can i ask, what stand do you recommend for me, I'm looking to get a moza r12 and i dont have room for a full sim rig are there any stand's that you recommend?

[@stubbsyyy]

Only having two (one type) official Asetek steering wheels isn't a 9 out of 10. Would say its a bare minimum for bases to have the ability to use other makes of steering wheels as well as a few of their own options. The QR USB functionality is a plus but should be a plus of the QR system score personally. Saying that, top job & thumbs up 👍

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

You can make any other steering wheel which is USB compatible behave like a native steering wheel. That means that you have endless options. Their own options are limited but that's no reason not to buy the base in this case because the compatibility is so open. As said though, if this is less important to you, just drop the score and make your decisions accordingly. I'm trying my best to get my reasoning spelled out with no ambiguity. This is just a toolset to make a decision, it's not me telling you what you'll like the most.

[@stubbsyyy]

@LaurenceDusoswa It's cutting out the need for a USB cord to be attached to your PC, but a lot of wheels will still need its own software to run certain features on the wheel, so it's not going to be native.

[@RacingAnt]

Agreed. I've said the same thing.

[@jean-pierresarti7069]

Absolutely fantastic video. Comparisons are really useful - and entertaining. Question: will Moza KS wheel work on La Prima with Asetek’s quick release?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Nope unfortunately not. The wheel needs to be USB compatible to begin with.

[@Zombiefruit]

I think price shouldn't have been a category of its own, rather, divide the price by the final score to find the dollars per point, giving an idea of how much we're getting for our money. Finals would be: La prima: 17.2 Simagic: 16.7 Moza: 14.8 Logitech: 20.4 T818: 16.2 (Lower is better)

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Fair point. And it’s great that you’re thinking like that because that’s why I put the scoring up like this, so that you can make up your own mind

[@TeinakiPalu]

really appreciate your work luarence . i’ve been watching your content for the past year as i’ve only been simracing since i got a g29 for father’s day last year . your reviews and opinions on all the gear you review has been so helpful with me deciding which upgrade route i wanna take on for direct drive . keep up the good work mate . all the best from australia

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

What a great comment. Sorry for the delay responding. Your comment means a lot to me

[@TeinakiPalu]

⁠@@LaurenceDusoswai’ve watched this video back countless times i’m finally going to upgrade in the next two weeks. i got a taste of dd with a cammus c5 which was sponsored and that was amazing. i’m still torn between which eco system to go. i have simagic alpha mini and gt neo sitting in the cart. but also now that fanatec brought out the club sport dd despite all there backlash would you recommend that dd base ? but i am leaning towards simagic gear the most

[@mrcod2083]

Do think the new simagic gt neo wheel with the alpha mini for £750 total price and there new software will change the calculations ?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

It definitely impacts the wheel selection for Simagic positively

[@wwjnz9263]

To me, the scores on the individual categories matter more than the overall tallies. Something like the ecosystem doesn't matter to me, being on PC and Asetek has an absolute silver bullet with the USB passthrough feature. Couple that with having the best FFB, and the ability to be upgraded to 18Nm... Yeah. I'd go for the LaPrima ahead of the rest of them.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Yeah that's why I use this system. Telling you which one I prefer doesn't help you to decide which one you'd prefer unless I break it down like this.

[@dirtycmdr5676]

Though there's still no news about that upgrade... I love my La Prima but damn am I angry for all the delay of the QR. What was supposed to be a 2 months without rallying is now 5. I get that they want only top quality, and I'll be happy when I'll get my QR (in a few days hopefully), but so much delay for a product that was supposed to be finished is, imo, not acceptable. Still won't change for another brand.

[@wwjnz9263]

@@dirtycmdr5676 Reviewers like Lawrence getting a hold if them, is a good sign. Its not like the wait the Fanatec guys have with the QR2.

[@anirbandey7493]

Upgrade to 18nm ? How so?

[@pequeno77]

agree almost on al except simagic quickrelease is a 10 and build quality too. can't give 9 to Simagic buit quality, it's amazing! this sum up why moza went with 71 :P

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

yeah simagic has great build quality. not perfect though. I've had minor issues in the past.

[@voongnz]

yeah the simagic and moza qr is perfect, 10/10. zero play, ease of use. all new moza bases and wheels have direct connection at minimum. i don't know why other companies don't use this already easy and reliable irl standard and unnecessarily engineer a proprietary qr, only other is vrs.

[@xSMOKED]

Moza firmware now updated on r12 reports say excellent!!

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I'm ITCHING to get back to the R12 but have lots of other stuff to review

[@xSMOKED]

@LaurenceDusoswa just bought myself the gt omega prime and 3 x 32" monitors, have csl dd 8nm and I'm happy with it but I'd love more so I'm now saving for the r12 and hopefully these new crazy pedals lol

[@hughmanwho]

A similar pedals comparison would be appreciated, I've found that harder to figure out than anything else.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Yeah pedals are very tough to figure out

[@curacto6207]

Wheel choice ? Asetek 2 wheels 9 points, simagic 7 wheel 8 point? Whats the catch?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

You can put any USB wheel on the asetek and it works natively, even the cheapest USB wheel on the market. You can't do that with simagic and get the same native experience. Simagic's cheapest wheel (GT1) is far too expensive for the functionality it brings to the table too. It's not just about the number of options, it's about finding the right option. There are multiple factors at play. Feel free to adjust according to your opinions and preferences though. I can only speak from my experience. This is simply my best attempt at explaining how I came to conclusions. Hope that helps. I always need to find the balance between going into detail and not boring people.

[@curacto6207]

That is extra cost for asetek to buy usb adapter, then is the price higher. I can put any usb wheel to simagic also. Ps. Every simagic wheel is with quick release. ( extra cost from them- policy of them, so the price of wheel is for that quality, superb )

[@ProtestTheHero04]

​@@LaurenceDusoswado you have a recommendation for an affordable round wheel for the asetek?

[@gizmo104drives7]

Id also point out that while moza has a fair few wheel and peripherals they are not always compatible. With the v1 v2 wheels and the pinouts changing and the wireless disappeared as you stated etc some may get caught out with inconpatible products

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

a reseller should be making sure that they don't send out incompatible products. All wheels have wireless, but not all bases do.

[@gizmo104drives7]

@LaurenceDusoswa yes. Not the cleanest ecosystem and people upgrading bases need to be careful as their old wheels may not work

[@GregoryShtevensh]

Nobody has done a direct comparison of the Alpha 15nm and CS DD+ 15nm bases and I really wish there was one

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Almost nobody has both unfortunately

[@GregoryShtevensh]

@@LaurenceDusoswa which is totally fair. I just dont want to buy Simagic and wish later id gone Fanatec or vica versa. Im coming from a csl dd which for ffb quality, im really happy with. But I want a 15nm base now, and the gt Neo seems like the best wheel I can get in my price range

[@aaron_mclaren5453]

No one mentions the accuforce v2 it nailed this power range years ago and is still great.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

We can’t get them for love nor money here in Ireland :)

[@msflight9409]

Enjoyed your video 👍. Build quality of simagic should have had a 10 which would have made it the winner. 😅

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Feel free to adjust ;)

[@Nicklz5555]

Awesome video mate I've watched twice now 😀 really good comparisons to help making a choice . I really love moza and think the r12 is a very good deal at the price as budget counts the most for me atm and they have really nice wheels for rally and drift by the looks of it . 👍🏻 Cheers . Take care

[@MrFatman489]

The totals were definitely surprising I was guessing it would be 1. Asetek 2. Simagic 3. Moza and 4 and 5 basically the same lol ... but a 3 way tie for first 🤯

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

That’s closer than expected for sure. But it also isn’t surprising as I can strongly argue in favour of all 3 brands.

[@kidShibuya]

TLDR; skip to 31:00 and only bother looking at Force Feedback as that's really the only stat that matters.

[@mrmidnight32]

Please do a review against the DD + against these and take into the fact you can buy 2 wheels for under $400 from fanatec where some of the competitors you’ll be lucky to get 1 for under $350 or more

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I will when they send me one

[@mrmidnight32]

@@LaurenceDusoswa I kinda find that off when it seems boosted media is the only people they sent a unit out to for review. You figure they’d want anyone and everyone to push these new bases

[@civicvti8383]

Can you make a video to compare SC2 Pro, Simagic U and Asetek invicta? Thanks

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I will try to get this done

[@SergejGrabun]

I missed it in the introduction maybe, why there is no Fanatec on this? You did not have the sample yet? Would you do an edited video of this and add Fanatec to the list since you did the review of it's small DD (I know it's not 10nM, but... it's close, no?) or add DD1? You had that reviews ages ago, no?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I consider Fanatec entry level DD, even at 8Nm. It’s not in the same league as these bases unfortunately. DD1 is quite far about the 12Nm range. I focused on 10-12Nm here

[@shadowb195]

Good video Laurence,thanks

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Thanks for the support

[@madpearTube]

Great video but it now needs an update - Fanatec CS DD and CS DD+ (if you can get it....) - Simagic Maglink that allows you to put any wheel on your base and the Neo GT wheel (and therefore current winner I guess)

[@michelebruzzese102]

Alpha mini + FX + P2000 or Asetek La prima bundle (wheelbase + wheel + pedals) with just 100€ difference?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Simagic. But really there’s very little in it.

[@valdurion6779]

Simmagic not having entry level wheel like MOZA ES is a big problem. It means the package here is like $1550 AUD instead of r12 + wheel at $1090

[@CamaroWarrior]

now you can remake this video and include the new Clubsport DD 12nm coming out in november lol and maybe the Clubsport DD+ 15nm...

[@bobbyknc]

The best value BY FAR is Asetek with the caveat you live near enough to a Microcenter store in the US. They have the Asetek LaPrima line branded after Indycar driver Tony Kanaan with his badging on them in addition to the Asetek badging. The 12nm base is $500, 2 pedal set with load cell brake is $200, Formula rim is $200. These are available In Store only! But $900 USD for this set is unbeatable by any manufacturer with how good Asetek is reviewing.

[@rogerdiz3520]

I just put the new simagic software on and it seems really good so far.

[@tomko5336]

hey Laurence, what would you choose, alpha mini or la prima? I play only Acc

[@Tigerratcat]

Does any know an ETA for PS5 support from Moza? I don’t get how you can buy an AM adapter to get most of it to work but not native Moza….

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

I wouldn’t expect any vendors who aren’t already supported to ever enter the PlayStation market to be honest

[@Tigerratcat]

@@LaurenceDusoswa You’re probably right. Seems incredibly stupid for Sony to charge so much for hardware licensing. I’ll end up with a PC and never look back

[@nossy232323]

Logitec only has one wheel and you still gave it a 5? I got the T818 Ferrari SF1000 Simulator, which is still pretty good. But if I had know everything I know now, I would have gone with Simagic.

[@mkatakm]

His scoring is so generous that it goes beyond realistic which unfortunately I can't take seriously.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

It’s just an opinion :) feel free to test them all and give your opinion using this scale or any other scale. And remember I’m just a sim racer like you. Nothing more. My opinion is not any more valid just because I uploaded a video.

[@mkatakm]

@@LaurenceDusoswa your opinion is more valid than mine because you tested all of them and I am just starting with an R12. The problem with your scoring is you treat them as if they were people with feelings and you are afraid to hurt them. Good judges never give in to their emotions 🙂

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

@@mkatakm it’s just proof that no matter how hard you try, some people won’t be happy.

[@mkatakm]

@@LaurenceDusoswa scores are close means you are trying to make everybody happy. However unlike your scores, your opinions in the video are very helpful. They imply quite different scores 😄. Thank you very much for sharing.

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

@mkatakm I didn’t plan these scores. That’s the point of the video 🤷‍♂️

[@Stoner-yx8ij]

I give this review 71/80

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

That’s pretty excellent, thanks ❤️😂

[@catnipherb]

If the R12's peak force is 12 newton metres, then does that mean it's constant force is 10 newtons?

[@LaurenceDusoswa]

Really depends on the hardware. Generally stuff will peak at a few more Nm than their holding ability

[@antonissar4739]

you haven't understood how the bases works