Leagues of Votann Unit Analysis - Hearthkyn Warriors

[@VotannVersus40K]

Hello Kin! Thanks for tuning in for this week's episode. I forgot to mention that the warriors can also be led by a Khal and an Iron master, but you will never ever do this as it is a complete waste. I will cover this in more detail when we look at the character analysis video soon

[@AmericanHeron]

It's not worth to add the Kahl? It gives them a 5++ invuln and lethal hits. It's not amazing, but really isn't ever worth doing? Also in terms of strategems, they have access to Grenades. Being able to toss a few mortals out of a 55pt unit is always nice.

[@VotannVersus40K]

I think for 70 points you would get much better mileage out of attaching a khal to a unit of hearthguard. Likewise, the investment of 70points on the character is larger than the squads cost itself (55points if split). From a competitive standpoint I don’t think there is particularly good value in providing lethal hits + the points for a unit with such low fire output, low damage, and low survivability. Can certainly be done in casual games though so don’t let my words deter you from enjoying the combination!

[@High_Kahl_Ray]

Gw did a real disservice robbing Votann of their 1 long range gun

[@professoroat1310]

13:26 Keep in mind that what puts the ion on a 4++ will probably have a better base save for the bolter

[@VotannVersus40K]

Yep fair callout! Factoring in this consideration, it looks like the ion will be superior at the 2+ base save, but fall behind everywhere else to the bolter (when considering thresholds for invulns)

[@anderbarongonzalez3356]

Wholly agree with you thinking. I run 3 units of warriors myself (not playing competitively or anything, I'm not yet at 2k points), and now I'm slowly learning to effectively use them as cheap OC to deliver to objectives and hold, contest and sticky them if given the chance, then die and hand out judgement tokens. Even though I love them to bits, they are not terribly effective on the offensive, they are sacrificial lambs. They are resilient and they'll withstand a surprising amount of fire, though, so the key for me is to put them in sagitaurs or hekatons, fan out aggresively and get them to objectives, have them become a nuisance to be cleared, and reap the judgement tokens when they die. I'm finding that 3 squads is a bit too much (mainly because I always end up with one of them dismounted babysitting the home objective and doing nothing 3/4 of the game), hopefully when we get the yaegirs we'll have an option to infiltrate, and I'll swap a squad of warriors for them in order to be a bit more versatile and increase pre-game board presence in advantageous positions.

[@VotannVersus40K]

Well said and good conclusions!

[@vinzalliot]

Thanks for info. How do you stuff them ?

[@nimfadoro1169]

Super hype for this episode. Thank you!

[@VotannVersus40K]

Thanks Nim! Hope you enjoy

[@zdron07]

With the change to assualt and secondarys has hylas no longer auto include

[@noname-do5wo]

The CP recovery is also quite good with the grenade strat since grenades don't care how powerful the unit is and often 3 mortal wounds into a tough target can make a big difference, especially combined with the mag rail

[@jessierine3981]

Hell yea! I've been eagerly awaiting this one bc i typically struggle with these guys. I overestimate them all the time, unfortunately.

[@VotannVersus40K]

Thanks Jesse! Hope you find this one helpful. They are definitely more of a tech unit than a damage dealer, but they have some nifty tricks

[@pineymtg262]

"Luv me hold, luv me kin an luv me rail rifle simple as."-Jon Kin moments after spiking the devastating wounds against my mates demon prince which just survived two sagi and hekaton shooting at him. Love my casino kin load outs.

[@tiredowl2687]

Great video! Always look forward to these and have been really helpful with building my army. Any thoughts about adding a TLDR or Key Take Away section at the end with a timestamp? For us with short attention spans (no pun intended), the videos are long and a summary at the end would be nice. The "Considerations" section at the end was very helpful but didn't quite have that summary feel to it. Really love the videos and excited to see this channel grow! Rock and Stone Brother!

[@VotannVersus40K]

Thanks TiredOwl! Good feedback, I will start identifying a better summary screen in the video. For now, there is one summary for the loadouts at 26:08

[@mislavkvestak9862]

Honestly, I found the most use of this unit with three melee weapons (Theyn +2), medic and comms array in a unit joined by Uthar or Khal. These little guys rip, generate judgement tokens and even took out an Archon with Incubi. All other shooting option I tried just end up dying quickly without much impact.

[@VotannVersus40K]

Interesting little combo, may have to try that out! I do with the whole squad could take the melee upgrade

[@donnylurch4207]

Thanks for the advice. I'm working on building up a Combat Patrol, but for my first 1000pt list, I have 10 Warriors, 5 Bezerks, 1 Sagitaur, and 1 Hekaton. Initially, I assumed I would put the Bezerks in the Sag and the Warriors in the HLF (5 Hearthguard deep strike in with the Kahl), but now I think I should split the Warriors. 5 can start on the Sag, and the other 5 can start on point, embark the HLF with the Bezerks, and then drive them to a midfield objective. I was going to add a solo Einhyr Champion to the HLF, but I may cut him for a unit of Yaegir.

[@nimfadoro1169]

I ran a little Murder ball in a fun game with Uthar the Destined(Kahls can also lead the warriors) and 3 kin melee weapons in a Sagitaur. Popped out and mopped up what was left of an Avatar of Khaine.

[@VotannVersus40K]

That’s hilarious I need to give that whirl

[@mislavkvestak9862]

Yes! That's such a surprisingly good combo, no one expects it, and these guys can do a lot with grenades and judgement tokens.

[@willsweetin2313]

You also didn’t mention a 10 pack in a landfort. Did you see the new list that Rasmus ran? Trip landforts😊

[@VotannVersus40K]

Love trip land forts!! Going to be covering that list soon

[@bottomquark2554]

Oh I needed this episode so much as I start this army I might be using this unit a lot

[@SuperstitiousScientist]

Any chance we will see a tere idw of this unit since Pariah Nexus had such an impact on Battleline units, as well as actions and assault veing divorced from their 10th edition union? I think that deserved another look Splitting them may not be a bad idea, but if you are having trouble with your units getting annihilated too quickly, taking a full squad of 10 has value, especially since the little guys are just tough enough that they usually soak a whole unit or two of shooting, unless they dedicate a really threatening unit to remove them. To kind of continue on, I feel like a unit of 10 with an attached kahl, medic, theyn, etc provides an annyoingly tough unit if they sit on an objective. Co sidering their OC2, they have to dedicate a not insignificant a.ount of fire to take them out. Im going to do some experimental games with a Grymnir + hearthkin to see if they make a more formidible objective holding unit. Considering the corvs replace any missing bolter shots displaced by heavy weapons, you are talking 10 T6 W1 sv4+ w/6+++ putting out 20 S4 AP0 D1 shots, and then adding in your choice of heavy weapon and Grymnir spychic shooting. They could really benefit from grenades and go to ground, especially when you have the comms (though never count on that coming back). I like them. And I will continue to try to figure out how I can wring out wvery last bit of goodness from them.

[@Kalemvir1]

CHEESE FOR THE CHEESE TAX! also, grimnyr isnt the only character to be able to attach... kahl and iron master can as well. Great video, good little instruction booklet for the bread and butter of our infantry

[@VotannVersus40K]

Thanks Kalem! Forgot about them 😅 but I added a note!

[@OverlordZephyros]

i dont think you can do actions if you have assault anymore

[@meganobgutzkraka2398]

i love the style of my warriors, and i already ahve two squards (one with bolters, one with blasters, and **4** of the special weapons since the rotary cannon is in the kill team box actually) but i wanna make one with Kyn Melee weapons through the squad, and modeled to carry their Plasma Knives/Mining Picks or axes in their hands and use them as a melee unit. I will only actually do this if, when The League Codex releases, we get a Detachment that brings back Kronus Hegemony's preferences for melee combat c:

[@VotannVersus40K]

Yeah I love my little warriors too haha

[@Oncomancer]

I feel like splitting them and having a forward squad with the theyn and melee weapons and maybe Uthar could be a surprising melee threat against space Marines, especially with the extra AP strat

[@willsweetin2313]

I’m running 4 sags and I’m splitting one unit then filling the rest with rim and iron. I’m considering dropping the two characters and using another unit of warriors. Thoughts

[@Sh4dows890]

I can't find what the Kin melee weapon looks like, do you have any photos as I thought this doesn't come in the warriors box?

[@VotannVersus40K]

Hey Alex, it’s just a mix of melee weapons on the sprue. I think there is an axe and two knives

[@Sh4dows890]

@@VotannVersus40K ahh I see - thank you!

[@coltonlong7562]

I know it isn't smart, but i am VERY tempted to just put three kin melee weapons in a squad so I have a little 5 man bonk squad on the front lines.

[@VotannVersus40K]

It ain’t the worst thing!

[@Polite_Profanity]

The ion blasters feel like a red herring 🤦‍♂️

[@VotannVersus40K]

I agree, the AP sounds nice on paper but it’s not enough to offset the reduced shots and equivalent damage characteristic