Learning from Animals, with David Bentley Hart

Learning from Animals
A dialogue with the philosopher David Bentley Hart, author of Roland in Moonlight, in which he has many conversations with his dog Roland. David is one of my favourite philosophers and this is our first dialogue. He has just started a new subscription channel for his writings
davidbentleyhart.substack.com
Dr Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biology as a Fellow of Clare College. He was Principal Plant Physiologist at the International Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics and From 2005 to 2010 was Director of the Perrott-Warrick project, Cambridge.
www.sheldrake.org

[@grailcountry]

You must begin talking regularly. What a combination. I greatly admire both of you as thinkers and as persons.

[@NoeticEidetics]

Fully agree with this.

[@marykayryan7891]

My dog teaches me every day to wake up ready to love my day, to play, to be affectionate, to be happy. She never tires of her favorite things.

[@davidcardill4607]

I live beside a large pond and I guess a 100 acre woods around me and I'm both outside daily as well as having been raised in the countryside and I would assert that every other species I have ever encountered, once we got familiar with each other a little, has shown affinity towards me. This includes insects, which make daily rounds as well, and once you're familiar with them, it becomes a kind of "good to see you again too" routine, and insects will actually drop off food, insect food, in your usual resting places. They all; every species I have ever encountered; behave like pets if you take a little time to become familiar.

[@nopodcast8880]

Beautiful

[@margaretinsydney3856]

That's a lovely story. Thank you for sharing it.

[@mikejones9961]

i love how Rupert starts right in, no ads, stupid music etc

[@QueenYak]

YES

[@Nonreligeousthiestic]

There is something sweet about Sheldrake the way he held up the books etc. He was clearly thrilled to have a chat with DBH.

[@QueenYak]

@@Nonreligeousthiestic Yes, very. I sense that Sheldrake is often sweet, forever young and boyish thanks to his incredible passion for understanding and to his open-hearted sharing of all that he seeks to know. He is a treasure, as is DBH.

[@RSEFX]

@@QueenYak "Wonder" and imagination have never faded within him, as it often does as people grow older and find their own cynicism or tribulations in life begin to take a toll on their deep curiosities and their awe of and at all things of this and all possible worlds.

[@QueenYak]

@@RSEFX Well said and so true. I hope to be as curious and amazed by life down through my years....

[@shari6063]

This was over way too soon. This listener could never tire of the two of you in conversation. I hope you do it again soon.

[@slfriend]

With deep gratitude for your work, Dr. Sheldrake. You have validated much of my intuitive knowledge, suppressed for decades by the Cult of Science. After years of an exclusively Aristotelian worldview, I now humbly move to a more Platonic point of view.

[@xtrapnel68]

Re: sports. One of my favourite lines of all time is given to Eric Liddell in Chariots of Fire: "When I run, I feel his pleasure." Lovely conversation; thanks much to both of you.

[@parallax7819]

i am literally crying while watching this. Blessed is He who creates through love such beautiful beings .

[@NoeticEidetics]

Please have more frequent Sheldrake-Hart dialogues. The recent one on formal-final causality that took place in-person was pure gold, too.

[@jezzamobile]

"The plural of anecdote is data." - Excellent. Much needed in the days we're in.

[@andrewroddy3278]

It's moving to hear the birds singing in the background and to see them flying across Bently Hart's screen divider while the Spirit is being evoked with reference to the dove.

[@kokolanza7543]

Such an enjoyable discussion. Thank you! This is the first time I have heard a statement as strong as David Bentley Hart's (52:12-52:37) "On the whole I don't know if this mechanistic view of reality even qualifies as a theory anymore. It's simply become a redoubt in which to hide from evidences that are inconvenient to the vision of reality you want to hold." All my life I have felt an enormous weight and sense of intimidation from the materialist orthodoxy. Only quite recently, while reading and hearing scientists such as Rupert Sheldrake, and scholars such as Jeffrey Mishlove and his guests, and now younger scholars such as Donald Hoffman and Phillip Goff, has it been removed. I thank God to have lived to this point. So many people's sense of hope and wonder, so much spiritual potential, has been destroyed by the so-confident voices of the academic elite who have assured us that no philosophy which rejects mechanistic materialism can hope to stand.

[@Whydoibother943]

Wind in the willows! I loved those stories as a child. Animals are totally bloody incredible. They can sure teach us humans a thing or to about unconditional love, respect and spirituality.

[@cloud1stclass372]

I've never seen DBH smile so much. You guys are onto something great here. I really hope you can find time to speak to each other again (and post it on KZbin, of course).

[@sebastiangaete2639]

Two of my great intellectual heroes finally meet to talk about dogs! Thank you both for your penetrating insights, good naturedness and wonderful way with words.

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

Just about every Dog I've ever known has been the moral superior of every Person I've known.

[@CHARGERDON55]

This was a very good discussion. I also would like to see further discussions with both of you.

[@Autobotmatt428]

Me to

[@amanitamuscaria7500]

After watching this, I bought and read Roland in Moonlight. it is delightful! I thoroughly recommend it.

[@lovedicedtomatoes9653]

This channel is such a blessing.

[@djketler]

I am incredibly grateful for this conversation. A real gift; two of my favourite people...

[@Gkuljian]

"The plural of anecdote is data". That really helps justify something for me.

[@mondopinion3777]

Ya. I want that on a T shirt.

[@itsmyytaccount8498]

Lauren southern ?

[@anahata3478]

It is a shitty argument since you can use it for pretty much everything, sadly.

[@issaavedra]

@@anahata3478 It is a shitty argument if you use it in that way. It is an accurate remark if you are trying to illustrate the importance of taking experiences seriously.

[@julesjgreig]

This was a wonderful conversation. Thank you for sharing it.

[@jasonegeland1446]

My favorite DBH interview so far. This is the way two people should interact: with patience and respect.

[@369jones6]

Deeply meaningful conversation. A privilege.

[@normaodenthal8009]

If you think dogs pick up on the thoughts of their owners, good luck trying to find your cat when you intend to take it to the vet. Animals are very therapeutic, and DBH’s book, Roland in Moonlight, is beautiful balm for the soul. Thanks for this wonderful discussion!

[@LeeGee]

Try not worrying about the vet - works for me and my companions.

[@amanitamuscaria7500]

Excellent Rupert and David. thank you.

[@bearheart2009]

O wow! i never thought i'd see you fellas in conversation. Wonderful!

[@WildAlchemicalSpirit]

Nice synchronicity 💖 I was just reminiscing about pets I've had and how much they have taught me and helped me. 🙏🏻🐺🐈

[@paulkelly1162]

I would love for you two to have more conversations. I would enjoy a discussion of your views of God. I am very attracted to Whitehead and process conceptions of God, but I love Dr. Hart's writings on classical theism.

[@gfujigo]

@Paul Kelly His writings on classical theism cemented my acceptance of the doctrine. It seems, at least to me, to be an understanding of God that takes God seriously.

[@MadderMel]

It was lovely to listen to ! They both clearly have the utmost respect for each other ! As well as being good friends !

[@MrHwaynefair]

Wow! Never dreamed I would see my favorite scientist and my favorite theologian in dialog! What a blessing - thanks for doing this!

[@clarahalfin399]

Thank you - Dr. Sheldrake - for this intro to David Bentley Hart. I was just disagreeing to myself - the assertion by a well known and usually respected - by me - spiritual "teacher" on this subject. He said something to the effect that Consciousness could only become "enlightened" through the human animal. Which I immediately felt was incorrect. We humans demonstrate our Unenlightened - Unconsciousness ad infinitum hourly! And our Terminal Blindness to Reality has brought the Critical State of the Biosphere into being! It is clear that in this way the - human animal - is indeed - in desperate need of "enlightenment." But - we have absolutely No - proof of a lack of enlightenment - among any other forms of Earthlings. To me - it is counter intuitive - to suppose that Eagles soaring - Mother Grizzle Bears raising cubs - Elephant Families communicating with infrasound and hearing with their feet - Gray Whales migrating over 10,000 miles - somehow fail to appreciate the Sacred Resonance of Life. This Lie - - - is "Paradise Lost"!!!

[@mariacelesteconnor8573]

I asked for the book and now it is on order and on hold at the Oakland, CA, Public Library. Thank You.

[@JimKanaris]

An invigorating conversation filled with insight. Thank you!

[@OrigenisAdamantios]

I am so delighted to have recommended this book and to see the fruit of such! May it be blessed!

[@keriford54]

What a treat. Rupert was the reason I first picked up David's work and have found it incredibly helpful. Now this the best interview relating to Roland in Moonlight. This brought out the playfulness in DBH.

[@montenegroalexandra646]

Loved the talk, loved the book. Thanks so much to you both.

[@huahindan]

Great minds! Thank you for this.

[@HappyPrometheus]

I have had cats and aquarium fish. Watching their behaviour at home and cats' interaction on the street, I have noticed that they have the same good or bad behavioural characteristics just as we do, only no intellect and ideologies. They can be in the now, act smart and give love or taken by emotion or mood and act crazy and show aggression, just as humans.

[@StanKindly]

A lot of this discussion brought Nikola Tesla to mind. In regards to animals, he seemed to especially tuned in to birds.

[@christopherraymond4826]

... animals help to keep us...honest...real...

[@ljohnson7124]

Love this

[@Autobotmatt428]

Oh my God it has happened!

[@colingallagher1648]

my two favorite people

[@restartzentrum4784]

Thanks Rupert to mention the phenomen of sports. On my road bike up the mountain, the scarcity of oxigen shows up as spiritually present, more so than in the traditional Catholic ceremony.

[@anthonyorafferty5632]

Marvellous.

[@peggyharris3815]

....and don't forget "The Velveteen Rabbit"! That story is saturated with incredible spiritual insight.

[@TheSoteriologist]

Hi there !

[@peggyharris3815]

@@TheSoteriologist 🙋‍♀️

[@Autobotmatt428]

Please do this again

[@dennismason3740]

I just figured it out. Good game, Mister Sheldrake.

[@koerttijdens1234]

I was free range pig farmer and learned a lot from pigs. If my english was better I could tell all about it , but pigs did not teach me english. .

[@andrewroddy3278]

You English is good enough to make me smile.

[@koerttijdens1234]

@High Δ Powered Oscar #1 Hi Oscar, 4, let me tell a story to show that pigs have a differnt view on dead than we scary humans have. Once I stayed at the butcher when I broght him 5 pigs: The butcher came in and shot one in the head and cut the troat for bleeding and went out: A minute later he came in, tied chains to the back legs and lifted the pig out and into the shop they went: 5 minutes later he came back and shot the second and so on It went on like that til the last one: and i was standing there and watching, I knew my pigs; but this was interesting to see how did the pigs react when one of them got shot and was jiggeling on the floor and bleeding ? how would you react if a family member got shot next to you ? pigs do it different, they did not react scary, they seemed to find it interesting and went sipping the blood and that seemed to taste well Till the last pig; no fear or panic, nothing of that The butcher said it was different with horses and cows, he walked a cow from the barn to the butcher shop and then still the others in the barn felt it and reacted, so I thought again that pigs are heavenly creatures and aren't bothered with silly stuff, or something

[@koerttijdens1234]

@High Δ Powered Oscar #1 FYI, watch out, you may die before him, dirty pigs are the healthy ones, somehow it makes them stronger and healthier And yes, but relgions are from the past, they sometimes dont adapt to modern times. Pig meat used to be dangerous because of worms, but those worms are not present in pigs anymore. But lets be glad they dont eat porc, prices would go up when all them muslims started eating porc.

[@koerttijdens1234]

@High Δ Powered Oscar #1 Psychic, I dont know . I'd say they are connected to the real world, while we humans usually drift away from that because of our minds are full of things which are not true.

[@koerttijdens1234]

@High Δ Powered Oscar #1 Better you throw that all out, free your self from illusions

[@raoulduke8720]

love

[@basharuu]

Mr rupert you're brilliant! What was that talk with krishnamurti like?

[@zarandrewstra7833]

One of the best DBH interviews in a while, thanks for you work. Any information at all on his forthcoming book You Are Gods? I keep seeing and hearing mention of it in podcasts and interviews but can find nothing concrete.

[@fieldandstream9362]

Animals have been nicer than people sometimes.

[@mortalclown3812]

A jolly lot of the time, we think. Very glad I love them so.

[@fieldandstream9362]

@@mortalclown3812 Nice to hear from someone who gets it. Pets get better health care too. Diseases are induced, cures denied. It's all about the money.

[@user-fp5gv5xh9d]

the way David loves his animal when shown the photo is a reflection of God, it broke me

[@thephilosophermma8449]

Ruperts face expressions win the session

[@SaturnDreamingofMercury]

That journal to which Hart alludes is _First Things_ for those wondering.

[@ziryabjamal]

What times we live in.

[@daniel-pz1ox]

I need a few more philosophy courses to understand mr hart.

[@marykayryan7891]

There is one other such book. in which a gorilla speaks about how humans went wrong in their social evolution. I found the ideas in it to be quite inspirational and thought-provoking.

[@7msjster]

At 36:45 Rurpert talks about everything is just energy but don't have out the on going energtic effect has n he constant realm. Everything becomes a matter of the matrix of things that exist of the imagary realm. You perception leaves out other perceptions or state of being.

[@voteutah]

I say with high confidence that my 74 year life is completely "anecdotal." Any objections, that I'll gladly listen to, are by definition, from people who have not pondered who or what's "doing the thinking." IMHO (that should be yours!)

[@RSEFX]

Hmmm, 2 books to look for---ROLAND BY MOONLIGHT and...RUPERT BEAR (just because) ! ;-)

[@chrisgmurray3622]

Yeah, to me it's-Spirit ( voltage/potential) Body ( conductance/ resistance)Mind ( incidence of flow and current/amperes) that is the mind is the function of the awareness of the process of life, not trapped on, but instead actually laboriously constructing the arrow of time that is the by-product of our playing out our perceived life-purpose.Ha ha !

[@garychartier8365]

The only book I know that resembles David's is A. S. Byatt's Possession.

[@likookiecooky9434]

Who can tell me David Bentley Hart taliking the title of the Japanese baseball player,thank you so much, I am very interested in that

[@dubbelkastrull]

9:59 bookmark

[@cthulhupoe]

What are your thoughts on animals and the after life?

[@fieldandstream9362]

Check out Edgar Cayce ❤️. He talks about it. He says our animal friends are innocent.

[@KimberlySmith14]

I am a talking animal lol. 2 amazing beings

[@dennismason3740]

In 1969 Ms. Johnston (history, Pali High) returned my essay. A minus, it read in bright red, "Verbal Garbage". I was exposed. Why do all of Rupert's friends except for Terrance remind me of that history paper?

[@dmrcflyr2]

So is Roland in the Moonlight fiction? Animal communication is a real thing.

[@somewherenorthofstarbase7056]

Watership Down and Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

[@nathanforrest3483]

Hahaha an octopus has a bigger spiritual life than a trout . 😄

[@wehsee912]

🌚☄️❤️💫

[@dennismason3740]

When Rupert's hair was in his eyes and a guy named Terrance - kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3_bhIaEerRmb7c

[@Szaroptka]

Never grow out from talking animals :), “ all grown ups were once children, but only few of them remeber it .." :) and do not have much fun in life anymore.

[@TheSoteriologist]

This is so typical of DBH: 41:15 - 41:25 There are libraries of knowledge behind such a statment, yet he keeps talking to people as if they would naturally have to immediately understand what he means ! 51:28 I wonder what percentage of the english native speakers even understand, let alone use words such as "prescinding" or 54:30 could spell "sequelae" correctly :D

[@duanelookingbill5694]

Regarding Rupert's closing tribute comments on Roland In Moonlight: "Or let my lamp at midnight hour, Be seen in some high lonely tow'r, Where I may oft out-watch the Bear, With thrice great Hermes, or unsphere The spirit of Plato, to unfold What worlds, or what vast regions hold The immortal mind that hath forsook Her mansion in this fleshly nook: And of those dæmons that are found In fire, air, flood, or under ground, Whose power hath a true consent With planet, or with element." - IL Pensoroso, W. Wordsworth

[@jasonegeland1446]

Why did I only get 2 likes and everyone else got 10 times as much? I'm going to be depressed for a very long time. Thanks a lot. Oh well, at least Rupert cares about me.

[@Square-Watermelon]

Jesus is God & He loves you Jesus will soon be seen by all men, women, and children up in the clouds. Jesus is returning now! Believe and be saved. Exodus 3:14 (God speaking) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. John 8:58 (Jesus speaking) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 10:30 (Jesus speaking) I and my Father are one. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, *The everlasting Father,* The Prince of Peace. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel which being interpreted is, *God with us.* John 1:1 & 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 14 And the Word was made flesh (Lord Jesus), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 8:24 (Jesus speaking) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 14:9 (Jesus speaking) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Hebrews 1:1-3 & 8 (God calls His Son "O God" because Jesus IS God in the flesh) 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father; the Word; and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; *and every eye shall see him,* and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Isaiah 44:6 (God speaking) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Revelation 1:8 (Jesus speaking) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, *the Almighty.* Revelation 22:13 (Jesus speaking) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. --- There Are None Righteous and How To Be Saved Romans 3:10 & 23 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Luke 5:31-32 (Jesus speaking) 31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. 1 Peter 3:18 (The word “quicken” means “to make alive”) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus; and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[@ThomasDoubting5]

just quoting stuff read out of books.

[@Demosophist]

Gravitation isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[@Demosophist]

"Fields" are a manifestation of material cause, and to my way of thinking have very little to do with consciousness other than providing an ingredients list. Consciousness is much more adequately represented as formal cause (extrinsic and intrinsic).

[@jan-martinulvag1953]

I don't need a pet. I am a pet. I don't need anything. In fact I want to die.

[@7msjster]

People try to be their pets hahaha. Do they need clothes? NO! HAHAHA! Are we still trying to satisfy our ego? I discovered this the last time I tried to control my cats healing... He knew when It was time to clean his injury, his way. And like us. Just gave him .25 ml cbd! Just all it did was help his anxiety probably cause by non other than ME. dumb human.

[@luke125]

I love Rupert but this other guy is just another academic bore.