Learning to Love The Last of Us Part 2

[@Windupchronic]

22:26 The thing that interests me most in this moment is that you can actually hear Abby fighting the Rat King on the other side of the door while Ellie is beating Nora to death. When the WLF soldiers chase Ellie and Nora down to that level you can hear them asking aloud why the power is turned on. It's because Abby turned it on. The entire time Ellie was beating Nora to death trying to find Abby, Abby was on the other side of the door fighting for her life.

[@jackleith3502]

That is fascinating. I knew you could hear the Rat King on the other side, but never knew that’s why the power was on or that it was actually Abby fighting it you could hear. Cool bit of trivia, thanks for sharing!

[@makoshark7122]

That is horrifying

[@Stuntray]

The parallel stories was brilliantly done.

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

That's so stupid.

[@geo0711]

Anyone crazy enough to send actual hate messages and threats to actors who play fictional characters is not the kind of person you're going to reach, no matter how thoughtful and right your message is. A person like that is unwell and likely can't tell the difference between fiction and real life anyway.

[@MrPyroCrab]

I find myself unphased by harrassment these days. Because here's the thing: harassment is universal, it happens to everybody, but people only care about when it happens to people they like. When it happens to people they don't like they couldn't give less of a damn. Just look at streamers getting bullied to tears over Hogwarts Legacy and all of the usual suspects ignoring or even supporting it lmao.

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

@@MrPyroCrabMost of the HL harassers, especially among the ones sending death wishes, are pretenders out to make the whole pro-trans crowd look bad. People are getting wiser and that's the douchebags' counter to that.

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

It's not so much "they can't tell apart reality and fantasy" as it is "they don't understand how acting works as a process and that small-time actors especially often have to take what roles they can get in order to eat because the job is inherently unstable". They get pissed off when the actor(s) didn't simply refuse to play their direct part(s) in creating the contentious scene(s), thinking they have the liberty to just walk away or push changes because lol they're all rich.

[@PlahaKumar]

Like the Star wars fans with the sequel trilogy. You can hate and criticize the films,(and I get why people dislike these movies, like the mismanagement, bad writing, the squandered potential, and the fact that overall they're just not good movies) but sending death threats to the actors and directors does nothing to help the situation. If anything, these kinds of acts are the reason the Star wars fandom gets labeled as toxic, despite the many valid complaints for the new films.

[@JuanPablo-su6vw]

@@PlahaKumarand then that get ofended when the actors and company say “ don’t be racist”

[@T-Dawg75]

This Has to be the greatest TLOU2 video essay of all time. Everything about it is just immaculately spot on. Props.

[@EroticOnion23]

Abby would have been more likeable if she wasn't all roided up with hulk arms...🤔

[@MarkusWolff]

@@EroticOnion23 But that's part of her character development. She didn't start out that way when she was a young girl, before her father's death. Her hate and desire to take revenge drove her to train every day, get as strong as humanly possible, so she could take on anyone standing in her way. And later on in the game, we see her weak again, beaten, sickly, which is the only reason Ellie did even stand a chance against her in their final encounter, though Ellie wasn't in the best shape herself.

[@horizoniki]

Exactly. I loved J's personal story bit the most. Just ties this video together perfectly. A lot of the ability to truly understand this game comes down to personal experience.

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

@@EroticOnion23 Yeah, that's what makes her character unlikable, not the fact that she's a psychopath who relished in the thought of killing a pregnant woman.

[@reaper78541]

I had a hard time getting into the first game because when his daughter got shot, it reminded me of the loss of my daughter. My friend recommended the game and after seeing that scene I couldn’t touch the game again for several years. I still rightfully can’t play the second one for the same reason. I can accept people talking about it but I can’t personally play it.

[@Fabi_87]

Why did your friend recommend the game if he knew about your daughter?????? Seems cruel. Even I cried which never happens to me but that scene brought up some old ptsd wounds. My grandma is the only person I have left because I have lost so many. So I get you. Considering it's your daughter which is basically the theme for both games I probably best to stay away. My condolences brother❤

[@ZaneDaBold]

Your friend sounds like a sociopath If they recommended It to you knowing shit like that would happen

[@QueSeraSeraaaa]

Playing a game that reminds you of a trauma should be avoided, as it's better to focus on your mental health than dealing with even more stress.

[@Sinnahh]

i feel like the story to this game was told in the wrong order and not only that, this plot for revenge just for her to not even go through with it and return back to left all alone and have nothing, made me sad. i love everything about the game espically the gameplay but the story, needed some work

[@chuiduma]

​@@Sinnahh I can see why some people think like you do, but as someone who had no childhood because of a lot of horrible things, who has had to deal with losing loved ones way too soon, the difference in how I think of it is in the realization that revenge will never fix anything. It usually just makes things worse. Which is, IMHO, clearly evident in this story. You only ever start to move on past the grief when you can let go of the idea of Vengeance. This is something I am still learning myself because sometimes it is nigh impossible to let go, especially when you're feeling guilt or regret and are far too good at blaming yourself for everything, even when it's not warranted. I see a lot of myself in Ellie, and for me, having her not walk away from the need to end Abby would have been so much worse and left me feeling even more empty and hopeless. Walking away is the harder thing to do, but if you can manage it, you eventually see a light at the end instead of more bleak heartache. Just my perspective on it.

[@mitch7658]

i usually never comment on videos but i just wanted to thank you for stopping the video and talking very openly and honestly about your experiences and how you personally related the story to yourself. i tend to find a lot of comfort in video essays as a means of hearing other people talk about and analyze pieces of media and TLOU is a special story to me, just like it is too many others, and i always found it difficult to understand why SO MANY didn’t like the second story but i think you absolutely nailed the reason. the fact that this story is portraying such a real and human story of love, failure, connection, and struggle we can all relate to it in way one or another and i think it’s very easy to subconsciously see ourselves in characters and because this is such a heavy and uncomfortable story it’s very easy to get dismissive and turn away from what’s being shown and i appreciate you bringing up that very personal realization that you had. the way you talk about this experience is one of passion and deep care for the story and the ways it has shaped and or grown with you and there’s such a beauty to that and it’s very special seeing someone take that approach to reviewing this story. honestly made my day, thank you :)

[@badmofaux]

Talk about hyperbolic. Game is an overwrought, try-hard mess. All this after-the-fact apologia will not save it.

[@Hamlock_]

57:29 It's actually because Buzz considers it a part of Andy's Room's "culture" to freeze when Andy shows up. It's only a single line so you can easily miss it.

[@cloudshines812]

And also, when the toys “freeze” in Toy Story… they’re essentially blacking out or going to sleep. They lose consciousness obviously to not expose themselves in the human world

[@JuanPablo-su6vw]

​@@cloudshines812 that just a theory

[@robertkovarna8294]

@@cloudshines812 Except they can still move if they want to. In Toy Story 3, you can tell from Buzz's eye movement when a kid is about to do something he would rather they not. And in Toy Story 1, they do just that to the other, much more deranged kid.

[@robertkovarna8294]

@@skibot9974 You.. you literally see them move in the first film and make the bully kid absolutely terrified. Remember? They absolutely can move if they want to. And it isn't too much of a logical leap to assume Buzz when he thought he was on an alien world just thought that was the culture of Andy's room.

[@QueSeraSeraaaa]

There were scenes in the Toy Story franchise where the toys didn't freeze up whenever an human were nearby, Sid was the very first to be aware of that fact, but couldn't tell anyone as he was too scared.

[@yellow_jacket3260]

I think that Joel's Death (controversial take I know) is probably one of the best representation of death there is in gaming, because it displays exactly why people are absolutely devastated when something like that happens. Its sudden, quick, unremorseful, and like that everything continues as normal, there is no dramatic build up, no final tearjerking monologue, its there and done. The way Joel died was incredibly realistic too, in the sense that it was for the most absurd reason and it was when he never expected. It kind of reminds me of Rick's Death from the Walking Dead comic, where despite literally fighting a sea of walkers to protect his hometown, some random mayor's kid just dropped him with a silenced pistol while he was asleep. I find that most games or shows have very little understanding when it comes to what makes death so devastating, usually people are conditioned to think that the devastating thing about death is about death itself, and not the lingering meaninglessness of it

[@terrcki3602]

It did but these crybabies won’t acknowledge

[@SaberRexZealot]

I agree wholeheartedly. I think popular media has conditioned us to expect gratifying deaths for beloved main characters but The Last of Us is just not that kind of story. There isn’t even a single death scene in the first game that feels heroic or grandiose - it’s all morbid, quick and shocking. The second game makes a big show of Joel’s death for added impact but it’s still consistent with the rules of the universe. And for what it’s worth, it’s a fucking haunting scene - the sound design, music, Ashley Johnson’s acting, the slow camera movements; it all leaves a lasting impression. You’re thinking about Joel the whole game despite how little he’s in it because his absence affects all of the characters. I love it when stories don’t make a big spectacle out of someone’s death. Succession and The Wire’s last seasons did that exceptionally well for example.

[@mdnegative]

I hear you, man! The way Joel died was tonally consistent with the world of the game.

[@demonte5305]

Look someone who actually understands the game has been found!

[@ElectrikStatik900]

In my opinion, Joel's death was super realistic and true to real life. However it's not good for telling a story, because it feels like it comes out of nowhere just for shock value and to start Ellie's journey. It just feels like lazy writing to me. I see where you're coming from, though, and I respect your opinion.

[@Boo-YouDoYou]

I’ve been one of those hard haters. And I think it comes down to my personal experiences, my own issues, my upbringing, and being raised by a sensitive mother, and an angry father. And hating the bad side of humanity. Through your video I recognised that the last 4 years I never fully forgave Naughty Dog for this story and feel so bitter towards it. And watching your video had opened my eyes a bit more on the story. And you made some beautiful points. Thank you! Some people won’t probably care to read. But I’m writing this purely for my own benefit to get my thoughts down that I’ve been harbouring for 4 years. On my first play through I was so set out on killing Abby, and the only part in the entire game when I questioned myself was seeing her strung up. I felt sorry for her. But it didn’t wipe out her crimes in my eyes. And having attempted myself in real life to befriend enemies and understand them after the fact… it did only make me feel even worse once that person stabbed me in the back once again. I think I’m also quite a sensitive person and a slight people pleaser. So I may hate someone to my core, but I try to befriend them to change my mind. Sometimes it works but it’s usually been at the expense of my mental health and looking like the stupid one for even trusting them or thinking we could become friends. --Anyway back to the game So I got to a point of like “ No fuck it, you’re strung up, you want me to feel sorry for you? Bitch no you didn’t give mercy to Joel when I begged you to stop and now you want my help? You’ll probably just try to kill me once I save your life like Joel saved yours and you killed him anyway, go fuck yourself” that was my stance on it at the time. And with regard to being sensitive. Although I was 21 when I played this… watching the torture scene of Joel gave me legit nightmares, flashback images, panic attacks, I felt sick and would cry. The world is already a dark place with monsters of human beings and seeing somebody I love (even though he’s fictional) be tortured like that really mentally affected me. But I was getting the images of him being mutilated and murdered flashing in my head years after I played the game. And now can no longer watch anything to do with those cutscenes, I see the blue hue and I’m like nope… so I skip the cut scenes. But then the game continued to shock me into seeing him by flashing it on the screen randomly. And force me to hear his screams again. Soon after the game came out one of my family members was brutally murdered in real life. Which then it hit home even more. And it felt like a bad omen because then suddenly after playing this, my family member is murdered in a very horrific and violent way. So I guess I have my reasonings for being so angry at Naughty Dog for making this, because it fucked me up mentally. Because once I saw it I couldn’t un-see it. It fucked with my head. Even the only torture scene in the first game was off screen. And I squirmed a little over Joel stabbing his knee. But it then just cuts to black. We don’t see David’s face either after she butchers him. Where as this showed us Joel’s torture and the gore detail of it and I just felt so sick. I think it went too far, what started with yeah you know what’s going on to let’s make a snuff film and show you the torture and the brain matter on the club and blood spurting out of his brain and his skull caved in… for me went way too far. And that ultimately for me is what made me a huge hater, because i felt like i had just seen a real torture scene. Which affected me deeply. Also I felt so much hope in the first game… Joel emotionally became a father to me, who protected. I play games to have fun, to unwind, to feel happy… and to then buy the last of us 2 after hyped about the trailer “you think I’d let you do this on your own” and for Neil to say “nobody loves these characters more than we do! Trust us that we will do what’s right by them”. I felt so excited and happy… but then only to feel like I’m watching a snuff film of torture, murder and misery porn. Felt like a real punch to the gut and utterly betrayed by ND. I put my trust in them and left with PTSD images, anxiety, anger, depression and a reminder of how dark humanity is. This game came out at a really bad time. We already had a real pandemic going on too. But at the end of the day everyone is handed a different set of cards to play with. I’m not mad he died… I’m mad at how he died and the fact I had to see it like it was a snuff. Only reason I continued watching because I was like oh it’s fine plot armour will come in, he’s been badly injured before he’ll make it through this. While he recovers we will go hunt them down we know he catches up!! Because “You think I’d let you do this on your own” it’s fine!! He’s not going to die because they told us in the trailer he’s there and willing to help!!. But then at the end of those scenes it hit me like a tonne of bricks… wait no that was real he’s gone… oh my fucking god I just watched him get tortured to death. And that’s what bothered me the most. I recognise my hate is mostly residue of my own trauma and I understand some people love how different and bold of a concept it was. Im unfortunately a bit too sensitive with my own trauma which overshadows the l story. I wish I could love it as much as others did. But I found it way too depressing and triggering. Anyway that’s my piece. If anyone did read this long ass comment of my trauma dump 😂 thanks for trying to understand my perspective ❤

[@tjthomas1227]

You can tell who the people are in this comment section that replied before watching the video

[@lightningmonky7674]

This game singlehandedly helped me realize gamer reviews are not to be trusted. Now I don't trust "professional " critics or gamers. I only trust my own judgement

[@lightningmonky7674]

I believe somehow this game also made me a more empathetic and more poignantly a more FORGIVING person. I used to struggle with forgiveness and why some found it so important, but this game came at the exact moment I needed it in my life.

[@jordanthompson8268]

Cool. Wouldn't pay money for that.

[@DJPrague-t7m]

Really? You needed a game with a crazy baby killing murderer to make you feel empathy? Check yourself into a hospital ASAP. zlast of Us 2 fans are wild.

[@lightningmonky7674]

@jordanthompson8268 hey man that's cool, I heard the last season of the suicide squad game is finally for sale, sounds right up your alley

[@jordanthompson8268]

@ Nigga, please. It seems more your speed. The writing in SS & TLOU2 are about on par with each other.

[@nodnarb3540]

Your feelings on the story and what you took from it align with mine 100%. I also went into part 2 totally blind, had the same disgusted feeling when the perspective changes to Abby midway through, but unlike a lot of people, by the end of my first play through I also didn’t want either of them to die. I just wanted them to talk it out but knew it wasn’t possible. To this day it blows my mind that this game gets so much vitriol….the story was an absolute masterpiece in my eyes.

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

Is it really that surprising that people don't like such an obviously poorly told story?

[@RobbyH94]

Thank you for saying that Joel was a different person since he was living in a "civilization" for a number of years making him not as hard as he was in the first game. I thought I was the only one who thought that :)

[@creepylolaloudplushie999]

My oldest brother says he enjoyed the story of Part 1 more, but concluded Part 2 has the better gameplay. That seems like a logical assessment, but I've yet to play it.

[@FraserSouris]

I feel part 2 has the better story as well. It's longer and more elaborate and fleshed out story. Part 1 is kinda just The Road but as a game.

[@Slavic_Snake]

​@@FraserSourispart 2 is just "revenge bad"

[@ssporkss4738]

@@Slavic_Snake no

[@ericbaker8781]

@@Slavic_Snakeevery story is that simple when you boil it down to that much, doing so is reductive and just shows us that you’re an idiot with poor media literacy.

[@IFluxWithIt]

@@Slavic_Snake Hey, congrats, you got the main theme down. Did you happen to get any of the other themes? Or you that simple minded and filled with hare you missed everything else. My guess, you missed everything else

[@MCFPapa]

My biggest problem with TLOU2 is the way its story is structured. It builds for Ellie's 3 days up to the confrontation at the theater, but then cuts to Abby's story which doesn't even connect with Ellie's that much and takes several hours to build back up to the same confrontation. I really didn't gain anything from interacting with a lot of the characters cause I knew were going to be killed by Ellie (almost all in justified "kill or be killed" situations). The most interesting part to me was the stuff with Yara and Lev because I didn't know what was going to happen to them and wanted to see them survive. Also, I think a huge missed opportunity in the story was that they never brought up the fact that Abby killing Ellie's dad was basically the same thing Joel did to her (arguably even worse since Joel's death was right in front of Ellie).

[@TheMetalOverlord]

Also Joel did it just to save his new "daughter", not wanting to see a second one dying. Abby did it just for osbessive revenge, dragging all his friends to a dangerous trip just to kill one single person that they don't know even if he's still alive or not. And even after, she left Ellie and Tom alive just to suffer the loss of Joel, after she forced them to watch hours of herself torturing Joel just for pleasure, before finally killing it. She was a complete psycho.

[@youtubecreators384]

@@TheMetalOverlord Actually, she let Ellie and Tommy live because they had nothing to do with her revenge. (Cringes) I feel dirty defending Abby. Don't ever make me do that again. I agree with the rest though.

[@TheMetalOverlord]

@@youtubecreators384 Yea but that doesn't make sense, knowing that Abby has just intentionally created another "herself" in Ellie. She kill people for basically no reason when you play her, but that time she left Ellie live, knowing that she was gonna chase her searching for revenge? Why?

[@tombotamist1174]

I personally quite like the story structure. All the people you killed as Ellie were shown as being “monsters” so making us play as Abby for 3 days makes us realise that they were just people surviving in this world

[@manassehpawlos896]

agreed even tho i love tlou2

[@supernew10doh64]

Talking about your toxic internet gamer culture segment of the video I thoroughly disagree with your take on this whole thing. As a reviewer as a Critic you of all people should understand the necessity of critiquing something. Just because someone makes a comment or even a video about something does not mean that thing is their entire life whether that video or comment happens to be positive or negative. Someone can make a five or six hour video of why Toy Story 4 or Star Wars The Last Jedi or whatever is a horrible movie and still have a wrench productive life just cuz they made a video like that does not mean that they have no social lives or anything and making comments like that is honestly one of the most Petty things that you could do because you're just accusing people who don't like something of having no lives. Are there people like that? Sure but that doesn't mean that that is the majority and making comments like that as though they are the majority simply is uncalled for. People who don't like The Last of Us Part 2 have good reason for not liking the game but just because someone makes a video on why Last of Us Part 2 is a horrible story that completely assassinates everything people liked about the first game doesn't mean that that is their entire life just as your hour-and-a-half-long video of the same game talking about why you like the game is not your entire life.

[@Parooka]

Yeah, I was fine with the video until he talked about that part. At the beginning of that part I was like "Yeah, those attacks on those actors and writers is wrong. Don't threaten them."

[@JuanPablo-su6vw]

​@@Parooka he doesn't say that, he say don't make your life hating on something. Creating an "hatebase" who want to be on that?

[@supernew10doh64]

@@JuanPablo-su6vw from my experience most people who made videos or comments on something they don't like are just doing it because they don't like that thing and they want to express why they don't like it they don't make it there entire life. And I would know there's plenty of things that I hate that I have made tons of comments or videos about but those things aren't my life and a lot of his comments on this sort of thing really just come off as stop complaining about stuff go out and touch grass

[@GerardoFirestorm]

@@supernew10doh64 its a point to be taken in consideration with how brain dead people can be with something they dislike

[@supernew10doh64]

@@GerardoFirestorm oh yeah I agree that some people take it way too far but he talks about it like it's the majority of people or nearly everyone does stuff like this when in reality it's most likely just a very vocal minority he also talks about the criticism of Last of Us Part 2 or whatever as though it is all bad faith criticism when there is a very real argument to be made that the only reason Joel even died in the first place is because he was acting out of character when we see that before the Apocalypse he was already shown to be a very Advent Survivor doing things that were seemingly very cruel for the sake of surviving and protecting those close to him it's very hard to believe that he or Tommy for that matter would just willingly give their real names out to anyone not to mention the fact that it's hard to believe that Joel would just stand there and take all this abuse without trying to fight back when he now has something to fight for.

[@bluestar5812]

I got chills when Senator Armstrong killed Joel with a golf club. Truly the spiritual successor of the smash hit PS3 game Metal Gear Rising.

[@MrSupersonic2012]

What we witnessed was the beautiful golf striking technique, passed down by the Armstrong line for generations!

[@hombre-lobo5673]

Twisted Metal Gear Rising

[@Adorni]

@@MrSupersonic2012 This comment is far better than it has any right to be.

[@derekmaullo2865]

​@@AdorniWhat a stupid thing you said

[@AkumaNugget__]

@@MrSupersonic2012 I almost died from laughter from this comment lol

[@neidentifikovanileteciobje2583]

Every game I play after the last of Us 2 just makes me appreciate it more. The gameplay is so good that you can notice how stiff the player characters are in other games.

[@zenac260]

This is the best analysis of the game I’ve seen. Even after all these years, I’m still processing this game, because as with you the first one is my favorite game ever. Keep up the amazing work!

[@Scsigs]

I'm sorry, J, but I respectfully disagree with this game being a masterpiece. I have no problems with the gameplay or graphics, as they're genuinely great, but the story is structured in a way that becomes tiring (& not in a good way) to follow & could've used another draft or 2 to really iron out a lot of the flaws in it. I have no problems with Joel dying as a result of what he did in the last section of the first game's story coming back to haunt him. That's perfectly fine & a nice case of dramatic irony. I don't think it should've just happened in the first few hours of the second game & think it could've been executed better, but that's a more minor problem I have with the story's writing & execution. Ellie's story, I think, is the most compelling part of the game. It's the most fleshed out & the best-written of the 2 stories in it. However, it ends on a very downer note & feels like the writers were overly trying to make Ellie feel like the villain when, at best, she's an anti-hero/villain. Her want for revenge, I think, is also a bit overplayed with the game patting itself on the back for doing so & it comes off as smug on the writer's parts, intended or not. Abby's story is where I have the most problems with the story's writing & execution. I'm sorry, but Abby's a horrible character & person & the game never lead me to think otherwise despite trying. I read that playtesters during the game's development kept finding Abby unlikable & the devs kept adding or changing parts of the game to try & make her better, but I don't think they ever succeeded before the game came out. 1. She spent 4 years trying to hunt down Joel to kill him. Ok. She has a nightmare still about her dad dying. Ok. Does she ever express regret or anything over killing Joel? No. As far as I can remember, she doesn't. Why am I supposed to forgive her? I know YOU don't say I need to, J, but the game feels like it desperately wants you to like Abby as much as Neil Druckmann does & forgive her for her awful actions in the game. 2. She kills Joel, then Ellie comes after her for revenge & Abby never has a seen moment of reflection where she realizes _she_ caused that to happen, instead turning it back on _Ellie_ instead. Yes, it was when she was angry at her for killing her crew, but that doesn't make it much better. I doubt even if Abby had a more clear state of mind, she wouldn't have still felt that way. 3. She suddenly becomes a nicer person, then grows a conscience with the Wolves & Scars, then grows a kinship with Lev. Ok. I don't care. Abby's still a shit person underneath that as far as I'm concerned. 4. Neither Abby or Ellie have a moment where they talk about why they're doing what they're doing. Ellie never learns that Abby killed Joel because he killed her father rescuing her 4 years earlier. Ellie literally thinks that Abby killed Joel because Joel stopped them from being able to make the vaccine & she never learns otherwise. Abby likewise never learns that Ellie saw Joel like a father because of their journey 4 years prior & how they had a falling out, then she took him away from her before they could fully reconnect. Some people may ask why those matter, or say that it's more realistic or something that they wouldn't find these things out, but this is a written story in a game, not real life, & they never get humanized to each other as a result of these beats missing from the story. Narratively, the climax of the game is left empty without them. Also, the use of flashbacks is way too much. Generally, you don't wanna do those too much in a story. Flashbacks are for revealing information, or showing an event that happened before where it comes in takes place. The game has way too many of them & they can last way too long. Uncharted 4 also used flashbacks, but they weren't as frequent & are used to gauge intrigue or provide new information to the players rather than pull the rug out from the player for some type of gut punch. That became tiring very quickly. Like I said, I think the game could've used a few more drafts to iron out the flaws, or another writer who was allowed & wasn't afraid to tell Neil Druckmann what didn't work about the story. I can see someone telling me that Druckmann is open to constructive criticism, but the way I see it, the game's story is the result of a lack of essential internal constructive criticism. As said in J's review, some essential longtime ND people left after the bad crunch time of Uncharted 4 & even more people left during the development of TLOU2. The story of this game is a reworking of the original pitch of the first game's that Neil wanted to do, but the other people at ND wondered why Joel would go across the country for vengeance & they redid the story into what we got. As a narrative, I see what the game wanted to do. As a story, I think it's really badly told & is missing important story beats. Uncharted 4 also dealt with themes of obsession, losing a loved one, vengeance, etc. However, it was written & executed better & nothing felt illogical or took you out of the story. In fact, the writing worked in the game's favor. The writing in TLOUP2 works against a lot of what it wanted to do. This is how I see it at least.

[@mx9226]

Look, I know what they were trying to do with the story. Revenge is a neverending cycle that brings nothing but pain. In the end, no one wins. But the way they were trying to get us to sympathize with both sides, it just didn't work for me. Like when they were trying to get me to feel bad about killing the WLF dogs as Ellie by having us play with them as Abby; it just didn't work for me. Yeah, I have a dog in real life, but even in real life, if a big dog is trying to kill me, I'm going to defend myself, even if it means ending it. Plus the dogs were kind of annoying enemies, so I felt relief when I got rid of them. And I didn't feel bad about killing Abby's dog, because she belonged to Abby. And then they try getting us to sympathize with Abby. You see why she killed Joel and usually that would be a very sympathetic motivation. But Joel didn't prolong her dad's death. He stabbed him clean in the neck, dead and done. Abby took her sweet time torturing Joel and beat him to death, drawing out his suffering. And in the end, his death didn't bring her closure, so she killed Joel for nothing. What really pissed me off was when she tolded Tommy and Ellie that they wasted the chance she gave them when she spared them. "Excuse me? Do you honestly not realize why they would track you down to kill you?" Those were my exact words when I heard her say that. And then she was so eager to slit Dina's throat when she learned she was pregnant, because she wanted to get even for Mel's death. But Ellie didn't know Mel was pregnant, and if she did, I think Ellie would've tried to non-lethally subdue her. She killed Mel in self-defense and was horrified when she realized what she did. Meanwhile, Abby is all for killing a pregnant woman and only stops because Lev gave her a look. And yeah, Abby's relationship with Lev. I can see they were trying a sort of "Joel and Ellie" 2.0 with them, and I like Lev. He's a good character, and I did want to protect him. I just hated that I had to play as Abby to protect him. To me, it just felt like emotional manipulation. Like "Look, doesn't this remind you of something? They are alike after all, Joel and Abby." When I saw how Abby carrying Lev on the beach reminded me of Joel carrying Sarah and later Ellie, I was unmoved. I just saw what they were doing, and it didn't work. Mel said it best. Abby is just a piece of sh!t. Now even if the story didn't work for me, the gameplay is awesome. I absolutely love switching between stealth and aggressive play. It's kinda ironic. The theme is violence is bad, but the violence of the game is the funnest part.

[@mx9226]

@@skibot9974 That’s fair. But it was her eagerness to kill Dina that makes me dislike her.

[@gertytk5528]

The whole game can be summarised with: "You're a piece of shit Abby!". She was just unlikeable character even without the torturing Joel part. Besides she got away with what she did and escaped with Lev, even though revenge was supposed to be bad and all that.

[@mx9226]

@@gertytk5528 To be fair, her actions were the catalyst to her losing everyone she cared about. Sure she got away with Lev, but she has to live with all her friends being dead. The more I think about it, the more I feel that is a more fitting punishment to her. But I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to stab her while she was tied to that pillar.

[@RigobertosTacoShop]

Exactly. It felt forced. It should of given the player the options instead. Forcing people to relate to something always has a possible negative outcome and that’s what happened with TLoU 2

[@bug688]

Didn't Yara also say "Mel's wrong, you're a good person Abby." I thought it was brilliant that that line precedes the Tommy sniper encounter because it just shows how emotions can be easily manipulated (in a good way) because of perspective.

[@RuBisJOse]

I recommend the channel "TLOU Explained". The real question of this game is "Can you empathize with someone you hate"

[@PulseBladeenjoyer]

I for one like seeing you pop up in the flesh in your videos. Weather you talk about games or bit’s and pieces of your personal life, I feel it adds to your videos. At the end of the day if you like popping up in person in to ur own videos keep doing it. If not, that’s fine too. Rock on dude.

[@justincomeaux9421]

This video has me actually excited for the remaster later this year. I wasn’t originally interested since I don’t remember liking the story. But you’ve made me think that I should give it a proper second chance away from all the toxic discourse

[@Ava6581]

The Last of Us part 2 has some of the worst pacing I’ve witnessed in a game. The game's attempts to have you sympathize with Abby and her crew are so blatantly manipulative and fall so flat. The mid-game ability and weapon reset hurts one of the game's few positive aspects. I could go on but time and a reply have only reaffirmed how bad I think this game is.

[@boredomkiller99]

Honestly this, TLOU2 tries hard to manipulate you into feeling bad about your actions like killing the dog via QTE then seeing Abby happily playing with it in a flashback but jokes on them I felt nothing since the game doesn't give me an option and I am emotional divorced from Elle's actions That and like how many dogs have you killed at this point? One more isn't going to change anything no matter the amount of manipulation. I felt worse killing random NPC enemies then any of Abby's crew

[@charlyhv2909]

Good for you, I think is a pretty good game

[@whalisten]

None of this bothered my by any means tho. In fact I liked them

[@vita7456]

The complains about pacing are severely overstated in my opinion. The only plausible critiques of the pacing are the ones that are about the switch to Abby and the epilogue. Other than that, the pacing is fine. Both Ellie’s and Abby’s section individually are paced well, but looking at the whole game, I can see people’s issues with the switch to Abby in terms of the overall pacing. But I personally don’t think the pacing is the worst ever.

[@PhenomRom]

I thought that it was good. It just lasted too long lol

[@ozzell]

Abby's path to redemption, finding something new to fight for, through saving Lev is exactly what Joel went through with Ellie. This is also Joel's message for Ellie at the end of Last of Us Part 1 outside Jackson. She needs to find something new to fight for. Which is exactly what I believe she went on to do at the end of Part 2. I love that Joel's philosophy is what saves both Ellie and Abby from their darkness. As his actions set Abby onto her path of vengeance and his death set Ellie on her own path for vengeance, poetically it's also his wisdom that sets them both free.

[@Slavic_Snake]

wtf are you on about? did you play the game with your eyes closed. She abandoned the reasons to fight for (her wife and step daughter) for revenge, then gets randome flashback mid kill, doesn't get revenge, loses her fingers so she can't play joel's guitar. At the end she has nothing, no one. It's all gone.

[@alexisaguirrevazquez7900]

​@@Slavic_SnakeStep son*

[@ssporkss4738]

@@Slavic_Snakehonestly the whole point of this ending is that she is free from her need for revenge, as much as she has lost that connection to joel in the loss of her fingers and her ability to play his guitar she can now move on with her life, her telling Abby to ''just take him'' isnt just talking ab lev, shes also talking ab joel, what this whole scene is telling you is that in that moment she forgives Joel, she is finally giving herself room to grow past what happened between Joel and her, he isnt tying her down anymore. that ''random flashback'' isnt there for no reason, its her confronting that decision she made to try and forgive him, abby in that moment (and arguably the whole game) isnt a person to her, shes a representation of that lack of forgiveness, she doesent want to kill abby just bc she killed joel, she wants to kill abby bc she took that potential forgiveness away from her and killing her in that moment would have conformed that. everything bad that happens to ellie in this game is tied to joel especially her decision to leave to go to Santa Barbra, her finally confronting that loss, forgiving him and saying goodbye to him is probably the best thing that could have happened in that moment and in forgiving him abby no longer needs to die, bc the whole point of killing her was to get over what happened between ellie and joel. Also with ellie losing that tie to joel she is able to reconnect with dina as we see when she gets to the house at the end of the game she's wearing dina's bracelet which she would have had to have gone to jackson to get from dina, shes not tied down by joel anymore and shes able to move on in jackson with the people still around to care about her.

[@zackdnep]

*goes on a slaughter spree killing every single person in her path* *gets to the one person she wanted to kill the whole time* "REVENGE BAD!" **DEEP**

[@Maverick100-z4e]

How do you make that white text?

[@victornadler8731]

😂😂😂😂

[@zackdnep]

@@Maverick100-z4e put a * on each end of what you want boldened

[@Moromom22]

I absolutely HATE this kind of writing trope.

[@zackdnep]

@@Moromom22 Same, it's just plain lazy

[@mechajay3358]

Yeah this video is going be very controversial. Personally this game had some solid ideas, but overall, it execution left a lotnto be desires and has some major flaws that fans have that can't be shrugged off as "toxic culture."

[@TB12method]

Well the Nostradamus Js reviews gave us a whole section of the video as to why it is toxic culture. You need to search within to find the Zen of the AbbyZilla and realize this game is a masterpiece.

[@Actionfigure_fit]

Can you explain this “toxic culture”???

[@TB12method]

@@Actionfigure_fit Js reviews does it, I’m not saying I agree with him at all on his stance. I think there can be a over exceeding amount of arguing but then again we all have that right to our opinions. TLOU is still beloved by the majority so for him to be so upset over the “toxic culture” of TLOU is a bit of an exaggeration

[@unr8ted77]

@@TB12method”toxic culture” aka facts hurt my feelings

[@soanywayistartedblastin8463]

​@@unr8ted77 no, angry nerds who kick, scream, and cry about the game. Cough cough

[@EmuleelArts]

Just a quick heads up for future commenters. I get the feeling a good portion of the comments I’m reading are written before they even finish the majority of the video or simply based off the title alone. Not all of them obviously. I have plenty of my fair share of gripes and criticisms for this game but this has been one of the better video analysis of this game so far so I hope you all can actually keep an open mind. Please be kind, you don’t have to agree with each other in order to be respectful. Thank you ^-^

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Unfortunately, they'd rather prove how their anger controls them.

[@RedHairShanks26]

Most of the hate Comments they didn't even watch the video just saw the title. Props to you for being one of the few rational people that actually gives criticism unlike the idiots where their criticism is "WoKe, nEiL sAiD ThIs" nonsense. It's so bad that people would rather discuss games with casuals then so called "fans" gamers need to do better

[@GameCat16]

I sympathize with you. I am a staunch defender of Bioshock: Infinite, The Last of Us' rival in 2013. Not even one year after release, it became an internet punching bag, with people throwing bad-faith argument after bad-faith argument in its direction, often misrepresenting the plot to poke holes where they don't exist, or else nakedly refusing to acknowledge ambiguity and surrealism, opting to take the story literally, judging it as a definitive story. And they would even take lines that lead writer, Ken Levine, said out of context (he once said, "I like stories that make me feel stupid", a line that clearly refers to stories that challenge him) to make it look like he had no idea what he was doing while writing the story. If you go back farther, the same thing happened to George Lucas, after Red Letter Media attacked the Prequels. My point is, I feel you. However, as an observer (I've not played the game, and can't judge the mechanics), I find the story lacking. Ellie dropping the map for Abby to find was contrived. Ellie and Dina getting a wounded Tommy back to Jacksonville is a serious problem, since much of the tension in the game's story relies on a lack of resources, so saying that they were able to do something pragmatically impossible offscreen without explanation destroys much of the tension going forward. Further, Joel's decision in the first game was framed badly. The first game left it ambiguous whether Joel did the right thing or not. In this game, Joel is never given a chance to defend himself, while Abby can get away with lines like, "I'd want you to do it, if it were me on the table." This suggests that TLOU II wants you to believe Joel was in the wrong, which betrays the intent of the first game. No, Jole didn't have to monologue, but someone could've called out Abby, and Jole could've, in the heat of the argument with Ellie, said, "You were unconscious! How could you have said, 'Yes?'" or something to that effect. Ellie's decision to forgive comes out of nowhere. I understand the implication of the ending: That Ellie is taking out her unresolved feelings towards Joel on Abby and her friends, so her letting Abby go is her finally forgiving Joel's actions (or, at least, taking a major step). But it still comes out of nowhere in either subplot. Nothing in the present sets up Ellie to even consider that revenge is bad, and nothing in the flashback subplot adequately sets up Ellie to realize that she wants Joel back in her life. So, the final resolution is poorly set up. Most importantly, Abby. It takes a lot to get me to hate a character. You either need to be unaware of how horrible they are, or you need to write them as a Love-to-Hate character (like Umbridge from Harry Potter). Abby? I never hated her. Regardless of whatever political feelings I had towards the story and its treatment of Joel, I never felt anything toward her. She's just bland. And that's a serious problem when you consider that the second-half twist relies on you having any semblance of interest or investment. A boring protagonist makes for a boring character-driven story. Her coin-collecting hobby and her fear of heights felt like cheap gimmicks in place of an actual character, so she's just a plank of wood. I see what the game is trying to do, but it ultimately fails. However, all that being said, I do not have any sympathy for the Hatedom. Their as rabid, incompetent, and unwilling to consider an actual argument as any fanboy, and they deserve to be chastized for it. As I said before, I sympathize with you.

[@magical-soap5359]

You articulated everything so well man!

[@GerardoFirestorm]

good answer, now this are actual arguments

[@_M41KU_]

Getting rid of Joel was necessary since his story was finished in tlou1 and needed to fuel the events of tlou2 but my problem is that they got rid of him way too early just to get you hooked into the story. I also had a problem with how they executed deaths from side characters. In tlou1 the deaths were spontaneous but they had a lot of build up like Sarah, Tess, Sam, and Henry. Unlike in tlou2 where Jessie is just killed and no one seems to care. Felt the same way with Manny when he was shot and Abby just moved on. They don’t carry the same amount of emotional weight as the first game. Another thing I noticed is that the ending of both games are structured similarly but tlou2 gets more hate due to how in your face it is. In tlou1 you go through this long journey across the US just to end up changing your mind and killing everyone. Same with tlou2 where you go through this long journey just to end up not doing what you set out to do and leaving but this time with nothing in return. They also tried doing an Ellie and Joel bond with Abby and Lev but it wasn’t anywhere near as compelling or touching. Tlou1 was just better at being subtle which I attribute to Bruce Straley’s (co-director of part 1) contribution. All in all I have always been in the middle wether I like or dislike tlou2 because I see what they were going for and the gameplay itself was fantastic but it wasn’t a satisfying sequel in my opinion.

[@asafakiva1619]

I mostly agree with the first paragraph. If Joel HAD to die for the sake of the story they needed to do it in a later stage of the game. One of the reasons I'm not a fan of the story in part 2 is that I felt like they could've done more with his character to be Ellie's mentor. And he just went out too soon in the beginning. Replace Joel's role in that scene with, let's say, dina- and it could've worked just the same. People would get the themes behind it. What we got instead wasn't necessarily the right way to tell it in my opinion

[@uzumchiz1738]

isn't this hypocritical to say that people who write long essays on why game is bad have no social life while making a huge rant about this people to be part of your video. Why would you care about them? Maybe they don't care about it after they finished this essay, like you, how do you know?

[@JsReviews]

The biggest difference, to me, is how these people who make it so personal to them that they carry on for paragraphs about how much they hate a game…continue doing that for years. Which is why I made that point about social lives, because video games, whether you love them or hate them, shouldn’t make you that upset. Speaking from personal experience. As for me, I made this video and that’s it. I’m working on other stuff right now, and I won’t be thinking about this one much after a month or so. I felt like online gaming culture can get supremely venomous, often to personal levels and I just wanted to call it out.

[@sammiesaurus91]

To be fair, Neil Druckmann IS an egomaniac. His creative output has some progressive messages (although I don’t like how expendable BIPOC characters were in TLOU2)… but in his real life workplace, he is pretty terrible. He overworks his employees and takes credit for their work. I have a friend who was a freelance writer for TLOU1 and she had such a bad experience at naughty dog that she couldn’t bring herself to watch the TV adaptation.

[@christhechilled]

Bro, that’s terrible. Neil really is a hack!

[@kingpinavatar]

Tbf even before druckman naughty dog was known for being a terrible place to work. The sad reality is that most dev companies are horrible places. Druckman catches heat because he is in the public eye, but almost every other major company is worse than ND. They are just smart enough to not have a public face.

[@mikes5637]

Hopefully people will watch Grounded Pt 2 - The Making of TLOU2 where this situation is addressed.

[@Actionfigure_fit]

The Last of Us Part 2 is a very heavy game, the murder, the violence, can seem like too much, initially I too wanted to avenge Joel, his death was particularly gruesome (but expected, so it didn’t shock me like it did a lot of people) so many times during the story I wanted Ellie to stop, I saw her becoming unrecognizable, and at points I saw her actions to be just as savage as Abby’s, and I think that was the point ND was trying to convey, all things have an opposing force, hate exists because love exists, Ellie was consumed by hate, but in the end it was Joel’s love that saved her… by extension it saved Abby too

[@CarbonRollerCaco]

"Hate exists because love exists" I never even played any of TLOU and I grasp this. You hate because you love. You hate to lose what you love. And I love a lot, even people and things I'm not particularly into personally, because I see their value. I see people's value to themselves even if they don't mean much to others. So I hate a lot, too. But I also know to fight only the right fights, and wisely at that, including knowing where I'm out of my depth. I'd gone through much of the same stuff as J. I'd learned how people think and thus how, if possible, to change them if need be. I get that everything's connected and that even the little things can matter. I'm still not perfect in all of this, but damn me if I'm not trying.

[@seriouslysatan216]

THIS. Exactly. ☝

[@demonte5305]

SO GLAD that this was your take away from the game. This was the narrative, this was the intention of the people who made the story. I’m still convinced to this day that the people who hated either didn’t play this game at all and followed the views or were just blinded by their fandom for Joel. Showing that revenge always comes at a cost and that in a world like that, NO one is righteous or inherently unjust. People TRASHED this game simply bc a favorite fictional character of theirs died when anyone with any base understanding of story structure and and fiction could have predicted this would happen. Joel has played his part and this was the next needed step. As much of a cool game that a fanservice-ey game of Ellie and Joel would have been cool it wouldn’t have truly grown the characters and narrative in an effective way like this game did. And people were mad that they didn’t get that fanservice-ey game when in reality that’s all it would’ve been. A fanservice filled game that has no direction and is a rehash on a game they already made. Instead they made yet another genre defining masterpiece. I hated Abby at first too partly bc everyone else did but also bc I was SUPPOSED to hate her bc this is being seen from a different PERSPECTIVE. And this game shows that at its core it’s all about perspectives and you come to empathize with both Abby and Ellie. These base level gaming fans just can not for the life of them appreciate well crafted and cared for art. Just glad you had this takeaway

[@Actionfigure_fit]

@@bookerdewitt2022 so you’re saying EVERY single street fight in the history of the world ended in someone dying??? That’s not even close to true. Seems like YOU wanted Ellie to kill her and therefore YOU were unhappy. But in reality the ending stayed true to the themes of the game, Ellie allowing her to live was the much harder decision at that point, she was literally fighting a corpse

[@malcolmmorin]

If only it saved the hundreds of people she killed along the way. But nope, finally gets to the one person who ruined her life and that's where the rampage stops. What.

[@The_jack_of_clubs]

OH MY FLIPPING EFFIN JESUS H.CHRIST!!!! the boat showing the round roof! i just always assumed the rattlers were on the radio and it was a trap to get abby to the them. because the resort is round.

[@PyroMaker3]

you don't tell me Joel was a bad influence cuz he wasn't willing to talk to Ellie about Tess at the end of the game it showed how Joel was morr open towards ellie cuz he started Talking about Sarah when in a previous scene he didn't wanna talk about it to tommy or even take the photo from him

[@JsReviews]

No doubt, I did say in that part that following the farm house scene he was way more open with her, but I just meant that it already been drilled into her that bottling up your emotions is what you do instead of addressing them earlier in the first game. This is only reinforced when Joel gets defensive and shoots her down when she confronts him about the lie. In that case, he’s just defending the lie, when he’d otherwise be okay with her being honest with him. I don’t think Joel is a bad influence on her, just that some of his worse traits have rubbed off on her.

[@PyroMaker3]

@@JsReviews well that's the thing i think ellie should've been mad at Joel for lying to her all this time instead of being mad at him for saving her life cuz even then the Fireflies are crap for immediately rushing things instead of doing further tests on her and they didn't even wake her up to give her consent on this or anything even if that wasn't joels motivation a vaccine would still have not been able to spread worldwide. how do we even know if the fireflies aren't gonna just use it on themselves? and even then all the vaccine does it protect you from zombie bites and spores. the zombies are still out there tryin to kill you heck why should i trust marlene at all?

[@JsReviews]

I agree with all those points. The Fireflies definitely weren't to be trusted and also handled it as poorly as humanly possible. I think Ellie's anger with Joel is justified, as I had said in the video, good relationships aren't built on lies. Especially when she gave him a chance to tell the truth in the hotel flashback. I think Joel did the right thing for a plethora of reasons, his lies were the one part where I just think he went wrong. Ellie was totally in the right to be mad about that, but let herself fester in that anger for far too long, since she never stopped caring about Joel, obviously. Just a really complicated dynamic between them.

[@lilsim6717]

@@JsReviews can you review the telltale walking dead games?. 2012-2019.

[@zalabit927]

I love the visuals I love the gameplay I f*cking hate the story

[@Nerdstorm003]

Facts

[@mattmas6628]

Gameplay is mad fun

[@funeraltrash9933]

The story is OKAY , i think the main thing is that part 1’s story is SO good that almost anything couldn’t live up to the hype . The one thing about TLOU2 that upsets me is there’s no factions

[@supersainity7377]

Everyone is gonna watch a KZbin video in like 2 years and let them decide that this game is good and the story is good.

[@KingsNJenssons]

this but it do be a story driven game

[@DashingDavid]

You brought up people saying “why didn’t Joel tell her he did it bc she wasn’t given a choice?” But completely skipped over that and didn’t argue for or against it. I think it’s a fair argument. Was it THE reason why he did it? Nah probably not. But it is the absolute truth. Would she have gone through with it if given the choice? Yeah probably. But she was never given that choice.

[@MastermindAtWork]

Here's the thing with the Last of Us Part 2, it's a game heavily focused on the narrative. Yes, if we're going to go off the gameplay improvements and the graphic and audio fidelity compared to the first one, I would consider this a masterpiece. However, the story, which is the main pillar of the franchise and the game itself is why I don't like Part 2. If Neil and the writing team rearranged a lot of the events in-game and in some cases cut certain story acts to make the narrative flow better and logically make sense to the viewer playing the game, that would've made the game a 10/10 for me.

[@NeoAya]

I'm sorry, I like your reviews, I really do, but this is sloppy and is just not it. I can't speak for others, but I feel like internet culture over the last few years is the way it is now due to misinterpretations and miscommunication between multiple groups that lead to misunderstandings. I don't have enough time to go in detail about my full thoughts as to why, but every time I see a creator talk about internet culutre it always feels like it comes from a place of not seeing the bigger picture and lacking nuance.

[@mattmas6628]

Exactly right

[@JuanPablo-su6vw]

No

[@DeanH92]

“Broke the internet”? My internet was working just fine when this game came out. You might wanna check your modem, or call your ISP.

[@rjgn4054]

The first game was such a warm payoff in this destroyed world that looking back there good and sad memories of it. This game it just feels dull dark and leaves you feeling depressed. Sure you can say its good since it made you feel that way but it not special compared to the first making you feeling satisfied and hopefuly and happy for the characters in a sad world like the first

[@shawklan27]

The original's ending was quite uncertain which made it pretty bleak when you stop to think about it.

[@onearmedbandit84]

Warm payoff? It ends with Joel lying to Ellie about him murdering all the Fireflies and basically destroying any hope of finding a vaccine.

[@resiseven7407]

This is such a hilarious comment. I don't think gamers deserve well thought out narratives

[@TheDumbJames]

Agreed 100x

[@lukerne9260]

Sorry but you didn't understand the first game at all

[@jjwalkthrough5147]

I agree with most things you said except for how Abby is presented. Abby’s section of the campaign comes across as very emotionally manipulative such as the WLF dog. The creators of TLOS2 said you’d never have to kill a dog in the campaign but as Ellie it is mandatory and then they immediately have you play with that exact dog as to say “Abby good, Ellie bad”. The problem with it all is that if you feel both characters are justified for wanting revenge then no player will ever care for Abby and her section. So you never stop see it as it’s a new perspective, because arguably they are the same perspective “revenge” and when you invest the player in Ellie’s revenge only to remove that option from them the game feels like it’s message rings hollow and the story picked a favorite that being Abby.

[@aceofsharks9837]

Maybe it's because I don't hold the same level of love/protectiveness of animals like a lot of people seem to do; but I just can't understand the "Abby protect dog, Ellie kill dog" bit.

[@voids4818]

@@aceofsharks9837 it’s the cheapest way to get players to go “I can’t believe you killed an animal! Let alone a dog! You’re bad and now I hate you cuz I fucking love dogs and dogs are always innocent!” Same thing with Mel, the pregnant lady. Get you to hate Ellie because she killed a pregnant lady. It’s all lazy writing

[@aceofsharks9837]

@@voids4818 Hmm. Guess I just formulate my opinions on characters differently. Like, I never grew to hate Ellie at any point. Every big moment of tragedy/horror just made me think about how it'll weigh on her mind, rather than reshaping my view of her. I came to care about Abby equally to how I cared about Ellie in the first game, though.

[@JH-xc9we]

Abby had just as much of a reason to kill Ellie in the theater but she let's her go, and nobody says anything. Ellie let's Abby go and everybody freaks out. And they're not painting one side as good or bad. Ellie kills the dog and Abby's friends and Abby kills Jesse, Joel and shoots Tommy and was going to kill Dina. How is that Ellie bad, Abby good?

[@brandonlyon730]

Personally a bigger issue with sympathising with Abby is that we forget her father’s organization were not remotely good people. Sure they might’ve had good intentions, but good intentions don’t justify horrible actions, they including Abby’s father was fully willing to dissect and kill a unconscious young girl without her consent or say on the matter for a maybe cure that wasn’t 100% guaranteed. Hard for me to feel bad about Abby’s father’s death when her father was a horrible person.

[@uhuhuh1966]

When people say “Joel used Ellie to fill the void left behind by Sarah,” they’re not saying he LITERALLY is trying to turn her into Sarah or thinks they’re the same person. It’s just having a daughter to care for at all is what he wanted back, no one is saying he doesn’t love Ellie for who she is, he does, but the extreme lengths he goes to not to lose her is motivated by not having to feel that pain of losing another daughter. I think you vastly misinterpreted that analysis

[@mletourneux001]

I don't feel those things are mutually exclusive. And nobody is saying 'literally' - he isn't putting Sarah's clothes on Ellie nor was the video guy saying that was happening. If feel his main point was that he is learning to love and connect again, and is doing that in good faith of getting to know Ellie herself instead of as a proxy or replacement for Sarah. Ultimately, I believe you two agree, but are parsing context and specific wordage.

[@awesomeChris919]

This had to be one of my most favorite video games reviews ever. I’m one of the few who actually really loves this game and yo put everything into words so perfectly, I also relate A LOT to not taking for granted someone who truly loves you with all of their heart until they’re gone. It’s something I try to remind myself of with my father when we get into disputes. Anyone can disappear at any moment in life so make sure you enjoy that time with them because they won’t be there forever

[@andrewvazquez9557]

This Game cannot be a Masterpiece just for the main fact that the story is the most important aspect of this kind of games, and this Game not only fails to execute it's main pieces correctly, it fails to understand what kind of story the first Game was trying to tell and by that it fails as a sequel as well. But could we have expected something else after the series of idiotic narrative desitions made in just the first 2 hours?

[@KingSandvich1]

​@@WarpChaos The story of the first game is that "love transforms a person." That is the story of the second game as well.

[@HeelPower200]

@@WarpChaos The fact that Abby bites off Ellie's fingers and robs her of the ability to play music and sing, is beyond disgusting. Her art could have been her saving grace but Abby takes that away too. Neil simply wanted to write Ellie and Joel out of the story and have Abby supplant them. Abby doesn't even stand on her own as a a character because she is only negatively defined by Joel and Ellie's story. Its a huge failure.

[@HeelPower200]

@@WarpChaos After you beat the game, the start screen changed to sunrise and shows firefly base in the light. So Abby literally gets the happy ending and light represents her end of the story. Ellie puts down her guitar and walks into the distance, alone, miserable and hopeless with no recourse. Abby, who tortured a stranger after saving her life and enjoyed killing scars for fun, is somehow morally grey.

[@yosos2]

@@WarpChaos you projecting your views into the creators is the problem, you just take away the most uncharitable conclusions for the characters and then get mad at it

[@yosos2]

@@WarpChaos you are the one mad at a piece of media lol it can't hurt you

[@videogamemix7046]

If by masterpiece you mean its got the most beautiful graphics of any game today, then yes, its a graphical masterpiece. The story is just bad though, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions I guess. The reason the first game was so well received was because the story was simple. It didn't try to push any narratives or do too much. It was a simple father and daughter(like) relationship and their journey together.

[@angel_of_rust]

being entitled to opinions is a mistake

[@sharzinlalebazri5673]

The graphics aren't beautiful. They're just realistic. Actually beautiful graphics would look something like Guilty Gear XRD or Melty Blood: Type Lumina or Hollow Knight or Persona 5 or Cuphead or the Ori games.

[@wesleybcrowen]

​@@sharzinlalebazri5673 that's just subjectivity.

[@ryxrr7207]

​​@@wesleybcrowen sorry, it's not, uncanny realistically looking visuals are not masterpieces, they are modern technology. Looks good? Yes. But that's it, TLOU2 looks worse than GoW or Spider-Man (to keep it in Playstation) objectively, it's just mud and sweat with no colors anywhere. Technological marvel and good looking? Again, yes. But not a masterpiece, that is reserved for especial things. The only special thing of TLOU2 are the writers.

[@bigkmoviesandgames]

Honestly it's not even the best looking game anymore especially with all the new PS5 PC and series X games out.

[@justadude3789]

I have to say I completely disagree with your assessment of Joel's death. At least the execution of it. 1. Just because he is in a better mind set now then before doesn't mean he's less cautious and more trusting. A) there's a difference between trading with people inside your home base. Where you have the home field advantage with lots of security. Its another when surrounded by well armed strangers while with your brother you care for immensely. This is not a situation Joel or Tommy should be letting their gaurds down. B) it was never shown that Joel was the type to risk himself or those he cares about to save someone else. Especially not someone with a horde of clickers on top of them In fact it's the opposite, Joel is the type to make cruel choices to take care of the people he loves. All the way up to the end of the first game. And if this characteristic is changed in that time in between and isn't shown to us adequately, and this is one of the factors that gets him killed the way he is. Thats bad writing. You don't get to change one of a characters core traits in a time jump to allow something of major consequence. C)arguably he should be more protective and untrusting, because he has more to protect and more to lose. It's not just his survival and well being he has to worry about, but a whole community. Including his surrogate daughter, brother, and sister in law. D)He doesn't live in general peace and security. He often goes out on patrols. So he still often faces life and death situations. Whether that be clickers or raiders. So he should still be very cautious, especially around strangers. 2. Even if he had no reason to suspect an ambush (despite being surrounded by well armed strangers, with the knowledge of raiders around Jackson) he should've been prepared for one. Taken some precautions like A) not leaving his weapons equipment behind (which absolutely could have changed the outcome, especially in conjunction with my next few points) B)not stand in the middle of all these strangers he just met, allowing himself to be surrounded. He could've put his back to a corner. Allowing him to keep an eye on as many people as possible. And as soon as they seem to get suspicious he is the first person to be armed. Which even if outnumbered gives him some advantage. C) don't go into the other room with all the other people, and stay with the horses. Your means of transportation and a quick get away in case things go south. D) dont go into the house. The zombies were already behind a gate, unable to reach you. Going into the house allows you to just become more vulnerable. If Joel had just done the first one, he probably still would've died. Just not as long and painfully. Likely being shot after taking out at least one person himself. Completely changing the story. If he did the first two, it would likely be similar, but with one or two more kills before going down. If he had done three, the chances of survival are possible. If he's quick and lucky, him and Tommy could possibly escape. Though not likely. But again he wouldn't have died slow and painfully. If he had done all four, the likelihood of survival sky rockets. All of these foundationaly change how things went down. 3. You don't address multiple contrivances and full on holes that lead to Joel's death A)the odds of Joel and Abby being in the same place at any point in this blizzard. If Joel and Tommy had gone out an hour later or an hour earlier. Or decided to take a different turn. Or if Abby and her friends arrived a day earlier or a day later. All of this wouldn't have happened. It was astronomically lucky that she bumped into him. B)the horde happens to leave an openening leading to the cabin. Any other direction and they would have been fine. C) Tommy giving out their real names to a stranger. Despite knowing that many people might have a vendetta against him and his brother. Especially his brother who massacred a bunch of people from an extremist group. You'd think they'd come up with a contingency for this. Like using faje names while on patrol. Or hell just start going by different names. Making you almost impossible to find in a world like this. As this is one reason Abby finds a lead. 4. Id say he absolutely regrets it. Because in the end he probably thought Ellie and Tommy were next. Given Joel's character i think he'd rather go through all kinds of pain and suffering so that Ellie could be safe and happy. Yet in his final moments as he stared into her eyes he was probably blaming himself. Because of one action he caused his daughter to die again. He died thinking he failed to protect the person he loved the most, again. That he failed Sarah, again. Despite all he's learned. Despite all he did to survive. He definitely didn't think those four years were worth this. That because of one stupid choice Ellie would never get to be his age, to have a family, to see the world get better. I bet those last few seconds were just as painful (emotionally) as the day he lost Sarah. If not more. All in all. You're just wrong about the context of his death. It is horribly written making no sense. You seem to have made the same mistake many of the initial defenders did. Instead of focusing on the execution and thinking deeper than the first explanation given and whether theh really make sense, you focus on the intent. Ignoring a lot of contrivances, holes, and contradictions in character, instead focusing on "why" this happened and not the "how." Which both are needed to make it truly compelling. Because once you closly take a look at the "how" the "why" becomes meaningless and cheap.

[@Reddeadfangow]

I don’t think he’s wrong I think you’re wrong. But maybe I have to read it all again.

[@justadude3789]

@@Reddeadfangow can you give me the same courtesy as I did him and tell me how or why you think I'm wrong? Because you just saying you disagree literally does nothing.

[@justadude3789]

@@skibot9974 if that's a question. I'd say from what I remember the rest of the video is the same. I just didn't want to go over every disagreement or agreement. I felt it was better to focus on something more important and foundational to the story and his review. As getting something as important as the set up for the story wrong negates most of the other points that stem off of it.

[@Reddeadfangow]

@@justadude3789 I didn’t think you would reply.

[@justadude3789]

@@Reddeadfangow I don't see the point of commenting then. But, okay you do you.

[@raven3067]

By the very second I read the title I spat out my drink in shock. But I have loved watching your honest reviews for years. So I'll hear what you have to say.

[@mattmas6628]

He kindof took the wind out of your comment by changing the video title

[@thebombsquadtv6151]

I absolutely love this game its good to see it getting more love nowadays

[@ash8244]

It's not getting more love, it's as trash as it was when it released.

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

the game is awful@@thebombsquadtv6151

[@windy3935]

@@mattmas6628 Oh god, what was the original title?

[@nickymo]

Your story about you and your dad added so much to the video, thank you for having the bravery to put it out there!

[@boylettuce1458]

i understand that you may be proud of what you wrote, but watching this video right after the essay you made about part 1 and joel's decision to save ellie is hard because you recycled so much of what you already said about them and part 2 in that one into this one

[@JsReviews]

Well, as the description to Joel Was Right says, that video is a compilation of things I already said. This video doesn’t take anything from Joel Was Right, Joel Was Right just takes sections from this video and the Part 1 video and fuses them together to make a new video. These videos came first.

[@boylettuce1458]

@@JsReviews i can get that. it just doesnt have much rewatchability imo to the point that i dont get why you would even bother making a new one

[@crazyinsane500]

@@boylettuce1458 Recursive plagiarism is a bad problem in the Last of Us 2 fan community. There's a chance he just ripped some stuff off from the Last of Us subreddit, which in turn were ripped off from other posts, and so on and so forth. That'd explain the lack of developing new ideas or retreading the same ground *exactly.* "Attribution without citation" may have escalated into his second nature.

[@JsReviews]

I know that in the post James Somerton world, we are more alert to finding plagiarism on KZbin. But I also think this is a pretty wild thing to spectacle about my having done without any evidence. I explained it in my response to the original comment, but I’ll do it again in even detail: In June of 2023, I wrote long videos on TLOU1 and 2. I worked really hard on them and was very proud of them. Now, that’s not proof I didn’t steal it, because, as I said, we are now extra alert to how anyone on KZbin can do it. But, there’s no conspiracy here. In January of every year, I take the month off and to fill the content gap, I take older videos and compile them together. Lots of people do it, and my most popular video is actually one of these. It can breathe new life into older work. I was originally going to take both of those Last of Us videos and put them together, but I thought my points about the ending of the first game and the impact it had on the 2nd could make for its own video. And it did, and it has clearly resonated with people this time. Nothing new was said in that Joel video because it was an edited clip show of work I already made. Perhaps making compilations of old videos is redundant, but lots of people do that to fill content voids so at the end of the day, it’s harmless. It’s pretty rare for me to watch other people’s videos on games these days, and even more rare that I am on subreddits related to games I like.

[@CaribbeanOlympian]

I have to disagree with most of your story commentary here, but I can respect and accept the value that this game and its narrative have on you and your personal life. Keep trucking and keep gaming, man. You’re doing good. 👍

[@tomzydaone8976]

I love comments like this, despite disagreeing you still respect their opinion.

[@CaribbeanOlympian]

@@tomzydaone8976 As much as I despise the game’s story and cannot comprehend its execution and the ridiculous reasons it ended up the way it did, I can’t take the value that a piece of media has on someone, especially in this case when the said value was established long after Justin had already reviewed TLoU2.

[@FiendaroÖ]

@@CaribbeanOlympian It’s hilarious how this has the exact opposite sentiment of the original comment.

[@CaribbeanOlympian]

@@FiendaroÖ Not really. I disagree with Justin and despise the game’s story and would rather play anything else, but I was still willing to hear him out and respect the connection he has with it. It’s valid for him to have that and it’s nice to see him look toward a brighter future for his content and his life.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

@@CaribbeanOlympian I wish more people shared your maturity. I personally love what this story has to say, but I struggle to actually play games like this, in a way that has nothing to do with the challenge.

[@SidTheScienceKid14]

1:34:01 video essay: "People who have time to write comments don't have friends or social connections or family. I wrote an hour and a half long video essay." No hate, but a weird statement in a video essay of this length it seems blatantly hypocritical.

[@digitalXP13]

To be fair Abbey wanted revenge 7 years later, Ellie was willing to drop it after a few days!!! Abbey is not a good person, she knowingly put all her friends at risk just for revenge, many year's later in that world? Ridiculous

[@ClickClickFrick]

This is untrue.

[@digitalXP13]

@@ClickClickFrick lol okay buddy

[@TifffanyTaylor]

🎶 If i ever lost my blue shoes... 🎵 I'd go check on my shelf 🎶

[@linneaadell]

such a great analysis, truly. straight up almost teared up at the end. already appreciated the story of tlou2, but I appreciate it so much more after this vid

[@willberto6969]

Completely disagree with that opening statement but I'll watch the video and let you cook EDIT: yeah no I just can't agree with most of these points. Lots of reaching to justify the strange story decisions and false marketing. I respect your opinion but calling it misunderstood is not true, everyone knows why this game sucks. Are they toxic about it? Sure, but I don't like the weird gaslight approach defenders of this game seem to take. And yes, the doctor was originally black. Debugs have proven it. Not sure why you had to lie about that.

[@heitornunes6225]

I don't believe in the whole false marketing stuff. MSG 2 make people believe they would play other character, it was the only path kojima found to make people interested in playing the game. It then turned out to be one of the best game of all time. False Marketing would be if ND said this game would be a FPS with werewolves.

[@heitornunes6225]

Also, why people go through such lengths to verified the race of the doctor in the original? Is this even matter? If the devs wish to keep the Doc black they would do it, and abby would probably b black too. I don't know when the casting for TLOU 2 started and I don't care, and I honestly think that considering all things to discuss about this franchise, this is just stupid.

[@willberto6969]

@@heitornunes6225because it proves that this whole premise was just forced and made up on the spot. But it just bothers me that J has to blatantly lie about a game just to defend it, this review made me stop watching him

[@robh678]

He wasn’t black.

[@szero7429]

10:44 I just can't defend the 2019 state of play trailer, The whole point of that trailer and the money shot was to see Joel again and it got me SO damn excited back then, just to replace him with different character in the final game. It's such disgusting false advertising, hiding stuff like making it seem like Dina was the one to die is fine but DON'T create entirely new false scenes just to ensure sales, this trailer alone makes me despise the game even more

[@yosos2]

It was to avoid people figuring out te story, why are you so sensitive is just marketing

[@szero7429]

@@yosos2 Because they lied to me with false promises to get my money (they opened the pre-orders right after this trailer aired). Regardless of the game's quality they did not have to outright lie like this. It's deceitful and scummy.

[@slickstar96]

​​@@szero7429All the signs were there they showed you joel coming in as a ghost first trailer they dont talk about him for ages everyone's like where's joel he probably dead people were still excited about the game. They drum up that trailer to throw everyone off. Movies and games do this all the time are you angry at marvel movies for doing the same thing? Or even the first TLOU for saying you never play as ellie when you actually do? its just due to fact that you didnt like the direction they went in and thats fine but there was nothing wrong with the marketing. Joel is still there in some capacity thats what the trailer shows and thats what the game gives.They did not promise anything they did not deliver...unlike other games

[@yosos2]

@@szero7429 they didn't lie to you, are you a child? You have control over your own money, they showed a gameplay segment with that trailer also, apparently they did have to lie because when people found out that Joel died they lost their shit and send death threats to the creators and actors

[@szero7429]

@@yosos2 I never said I actually paid for it, thanks to the leaks that came out I knew what what was actually going to happen so I just borrowed the game. But the trailer's intention was to get me excited for things that never happened

[@kclink1579]

It's unbelievably bad. The ending makes less sense the more you think about it. Actually makes me feel embarrassed I even play the first by association.

[@franciscor390]

That's the main issue with the story of TLoU2 you have to turn off every logical neuron in your brain in order for it make any sense. Because it simply doesn't. I think the people who enjoyed it did it for what it made them "feel" instead.

[@MrREAPERsz]

The hatred I felt playing this game was otherworldly. I murder everyone in my path but stop at my objective at the end. It makes no sense.

[@lightningmonky7674]

I despise the last jedi but the thought of sending threatening messages to the freaking actors (or yes even director(the head corporation is free game))is disgusting and pathetic

[@bradleyjdee]

I’ve only just come across your channel and your videos on TLOU. I don’t think you’ll read this but if you do, I just wanted to say I hope you find peace with your former self. That person, did the best they could under the circumstances. I hope that you forgiveness. On Ellie and Joel, as we mature we develop a perception of the world that is more in line with truth. One of the harder truths to accept is the flaws of our parents. They are just imperfect human beings. Despite probably knowing all along, this truth was revealed the day she cut Joel off. Ellie was made to wrestle with the fact that Joel stole from her the one thing she believed to be her calling. Great work man! Appreciate the video!

[@bigkmoviesandgames]

The Last of Us Part 1 is a game that made me enjoy all the characters. The Last of Us Part 2 is a game that made me hate all the characters. Part two has good gameplay and Graphics but I honestly couldn't give two shits about anyone at the end of that game with exception of maybe lev and Tommy and even then I didn't find them that compelling by the end. When it was all over I hated Ellie and I hated Abbey and I honestly didn't care if either one of them died. It's a pretty unique thing to make me hate a character I once loved but dammit if Neil didn't succeed. I think the only way I'd be interested in a part 3 is if it was just about a whole new set of characters because I don't give a crap about these people anymore.

[@someguy9345]

Why didn’t you hate Lev and Tommy? They was accomplices! I say that not as a hater, I loved all the characters and I think your reasoning for disliking them is perfectly valid. I’m just trying to push the envelope a bit

[@bigkmoviesandgames]

@@someguy9345 I didn't hate Tommy because I can understand his reasoning for wanting Revenge for Joels death. Much like Joel he was already past the point of being a truly redeemable person so I feel his character wasn't mishandled when he went on a Warpath. And lev isn't involved in the whole revenge plot and is just more of an outcast so I didn't really have any reason to hate the character.

[@FraserSouris]

A weird take there. Did these characters bully you or something? Why do you hate them lol?

[@bigkmoviesandgames]

@@FraserSouris it's not really a weird take they're just very unlikable irredeemable people.

[@FraserSouris]

@@bigkmoviesandgames don’t they end the game saving lives and moving past their issues? Isn’t that, by definition, redeemable?

[@spectrumbots4268]

Or, you can say a game is good or bad and leave it at that. It’s an opinion; You HAVE to understand that no matter how people talk about any piece of media, it will always, ALWAYS be their opinion, no matter what, whether they like it or not. Additionally, I see way more folks complaining about people hating the TLOU series than people hating the TLOU series.

[@GerardoFirestorm]

Then you are not reading even this comment section

[@justadude3789]

It being good and bad are statements of quality. Whether you liked it or not is subjective. People can like bad games, movies, or tv shows. People can not like good games, movies, or tv shows. Your feelings have nothing to do with the actual quality of something.

[@ObamaTheHedgehog]

​@GerardoFirestorm lmao right. Are they blind? This comment section is 90% hating on the game

[@sweett3253]

You can still express the fact you disagree with someone's opinion and poke holes in their argument.

[@switchboy2320]

Im sorry this game shouldnt have won game of the year 2020. When there was doom eternal ff7 remake animal crossing tushima and ori and the will of the wisps. This game is okay imo but compared to the game i listed i personally think those games deserved awards. Especially doom etenral with its sound track

[@ayrtonsilva316]

Not what the video is about

[@DUST_MAN_COMETH]

J, I've been willing to hear you out for a lot of things I disagree with and I got a decent way through the video, but demonizing the people that don't like a game with such things as 'don't get mad at bad media/media you don't like, just let it go (while it is being blasted literally everywhere by sycophantic fanboys and by media outlets as the direction all games should take)' and 'big companies don't pay for review scores', something that happens in every medium out there, seems entirely disingenuous. If that's how you feel, whatever, but using fucking memes and shit that are clearly jokes to paint your opposition as 'the bad guys/no life internet people who don't talk to their parents' is silly. I think the premise you've built this narrative off of is silly. I'm one of those 'contrarians' who literally never liked Last of Us 1, let alone part 2, because I think Sony's constant dives into making 'cinematic' games pretty much ruined most discussion about games. There's a lot of really sycophantic PS fanboys that were just as obnoxious as you claim these 'bad faith' arguments are. But, a lot of your 'debunking' isn't even really debunking, it's just stating your opinion counter to theirs. Which is fine, you deserve a voice too, but it's hard to ignore that Naughty Dog straight up doesn't make games like they used to. You keep going on and on about 'angry gamer types' but I have literally not seen TLOU2 discourse in the wild for years. On some level you are still seeking it out; granted, probably for research purposes, but it's not like my bubble is insular. 'Culture war' shit constantly seems to follow me where ever I go. I probably would've heard it if it was especially common still. In fact the only people I do see out in the wild every so often are people that obnoxiously praise the game to put down other games and even those people have mostly gone away at this point. I don't know. I think you're analyzing a lot of this at a very surface level without considering the broader state of the medium, and dismissing people that care 'too much' in your eyes because they don't agree with you. There's no ill will in this comment intended. I hope you have a good day, I just don't think I agree with this rewriting of a lot of fair criticism by lumping it in with things you find unsavory.

[@magical-soap5359]

I'm glad you put this in words, because I don't think I would've done it as well as you. Amen

[@ayrtonjoga]

You put into words on what I felt about that part of the video, he did a good job at debunking some misquotes from Neil, but the rest felt pretentious The whole talk about "you mad, you antisocial, just let go" was disingenuous, he took *based* memes seriously, and then only blame the haters for keeping the TLOU2 discussion going, despite the HBO adaptation being the main reason to bring TLOU back to the spotlight again

[@hubertcalculus34]

He's slowly turning into the Abby of his Story.

[@Parooka]

Goodness I thought I was the only one who thought this. It reminds me of what IGN said to those who didn't like the game saying we are just a bunch of basement dwellers and such. And the fact that he changed the title of this video felt... odd, maybe because people were really put off of it saying it was a masterpiece.

[@GerardoFirestorm]

soy opinion, j is right and you are a big example, refusing to see the other side of the coins

[@doomarang3208]

Since early 2020 after seeing the leaks, cancelling my pre-order & then watching all of the cutscenes/cinematics of The Last Of Us Part 2 on KZbin after release & vowed that I will NEVER play this game. Earlier this year during February with the hype of The Last of Us HBO Max TV Show And also after playing The Last of Us Part 1's Triple AAA+ Remaster on my PS5 [Still not calling it a "Remake"] I've finally played The Last of Us Part 2 with the PS5 Enhancements installed on the SSD. I've decided to finally man up & get it off my chest out of morbid curiosity and playing it just for the gameplay, even though I already know this story/plot-points and spoiled all the cutscenes for myself And I can finally say that I like the Gameplay, Improvements and there are some legitimate good parts of this game but I still don't like this story and you have to admit it does have writing flaws with it's pacing, flashbacks, developments, character moments, etc. If The Last of Us Part 1 is a game with a 10/10 Story, with 6.5/10 Gameplay. The Last of Us Part 2 is a game with a 5.9/10 Story, with 7.5/10 Gameplay. My overall score of The Last of Us Part 2 it's a solid 7.0/game. I didn't think this game was a 0/10 like some stupid people out there said, but I don't think it's a 10/10 "Masterpiece" either. The true answer lies somewhere in the middle and that's where I stand. Overall good video J. All 1:34:01 of it. 37:23 And I don't mind you camera segment J, in fact I like them! I think it's pretty refreshing. It's like you're almost up there with SomecallmeJohnny with his camera segments. But if you don't like showing your face, then that's fine. I'm pretty camera shy in real life. I think The Closer Look's video perfectly explains in the 1st half of his video on exactly just why The Last of Us Part 2's story is flawed. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6e3d3ljepqqodk&pp=ygUbdGhlIGxhc3Qgb2YgdXMgYmV0dGVyIHN0b3J5

[@Kira_Official_]

I'm going to save anything that I have to say about the story, because I've talked about this game far longer than I should have, and I'm done trying to explain why the story is bad. If people got a better experience out of it than me, then whatever. However, I will say this, Laura Bailey did not deserve the hate she got for this role. She's wonderful, still one of the best female voice talents in the industry, and on behalf of the overall community, I apologize to her for the backlash she received. And the other thing I want to say, is that this game should not have won game of the year. Not because I think it's a bad, but because a game that caused so much hatred, so much arguing, and literally split an entire fanbase in half, should not have won. So many people were hurt and angry because of this game, and caused so many people to attack each other because they either liked it or hated it. Ghost Of Tsushima, a game that came out the same year, had nothing but universal praise and did nothing, but bring people together to talk about how awesome it was. I also hate calling media a masterpiece. The only thing that I would say in the last 5+ years that could genuinely be called a masterpiece, was Into The Spider-Verse. Nothing is perfect, and a game as flawed as TLOU2, certainly should not be called, a masterpiece.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Popularity isn't an objective measure of quality.

[@willdurfee4211]

I got into your videos from your metalgear series and am still here because your personality is so genuine. It's super cool to see you have a deeper personal connection to the subject matter. Keep up the great work my guy.

[@TheonlyCamera-Man]

It wasn't that joel died for me, its that you expect us to give even the slightest shit about abby and anything thar has to do with her, I can see the artistic perspective though, the game is meant to make you feel like that, but that doesn't make it any more bearable in my opinion

[@SheepShade]

Why shouldn't you? Abby is a pretty fun character who tries to help people in her section of the game. So why not give a s*it about her?

[@TheonlyCamera-Man]

@@SheepShade its just hard to care after playing through the parts where we're basically hellbent on killing her, you really learn to immerse yourself in the plot through ellie, so when it just switches to the one you litterally want to murder its one hell of a flip

[@ssporkss4738]

@@TheonlyCamera-Man tbf that is the point, its meant to be kinda jarring, if you didnt hate abby in the first half of the game then it wasnt doing its job. however the second half through telling abby's story (a rehashing of joel's story, hell theyre practically the same character) expects you to at very least understand where shes coming from, the game wants you to like her enough to not want her dead at the end, sure she might not be ur fave character and you might not love her but that isnt the point. the reason she's practially the same a joel is is bc that reminder makes her easier to understand bc her story isnt much of a leap from the first game. even after playing the first game i never really liked joel, sure i had a begrudging understanding of him but as a character he never really clicked w/ me i only liked him for his relationship w/ ellie bc i cared about her and the impact he had on her as her father figure. I see that feeling alot towards abby and lev and honestly thats all the game needed you to feel for the ending to work

[@randomusername3873]

I love how hating something is bad, but loving the same thing is totally ok Insane

[@darrenmacqueen9884]

I loved this game. And it's fine if others didn't. What I find exhausting though is how there isn't a single comment section discussing anything Last of Us related without a bunch of angry haters coming in and complaining about this game, even years later. I know when I hate something, I don't go out and seek comment sections discussing it to complain about it. I typically just don't talk about things I hate. I talk about things I like. But I've begun avoiding comment sections on articles and videos about Last of Us because of this. I guess I'm making an exception on this, although I'm just leaving this comment without reading the others that are already here. I don't know how hate filled this comment section is. I'm leaving this comment because I saw your video 3 years ago. These are the only 2 videos I saw from you, but it's pretty clear you went through a lot of growth. I'm glad you are in a better place now.

[@alexporto5669]

My opinion on TLoU2 completely changed over time. When the 2020 leaks happened, I absolutely hated the direction the story went. But I cooled my head and still bought and played the game, to give it a honest chance. And I really liked it. Weeks and months passed, and the game still was in my mind, daily. I was listening to the soundtrack almost non-stop. The game kept growing and growing on me, and then, about six months after my first playthrough, I played it again. And the experience absolutely floored me. Just remembering it makes me feel goosepumps. I consider TLoU2 an unparalleled artistic masterpiece, lightyears ahead any movie, tv show or game that has come out in the last 10 years. The pacing, the ways story, atmosphere, themes and gameplay connect are incredible. The more I explore this story, the more meaning I find. It is so much more than "revenge bad". This point of view is just as absurd as saying that Better Call Saul is about "crime is bad". There is so much more nuance, character building, thematic exploration and progression.

[@MrSupersmash93]

The problem is with Abby is that one she and her are completely unsympathetic considering that Jerry was willing to kill an unconscious Ellie for the suppose sake of humanity but when he was question by Mel if he would do it if Abby was the one on the table and he hesitates and never gives Mel an answer meanwhile Abby is listening to this and agrees with his plan. This is also based the fact that Ellie never give consent to them to do this. This kinda makes Joel actions against the firefly’s pretty justified since they were willing to sacrifice someone just for thier happiness and yet Joel is somehow the bad guy in this story for doing the same thing? Not too much mention how pretty inconsistent Abby is like Joel saves her from a zombie horde but then bashes his brain in but she doesn’t do the same to two Scar children, a group that she has hated for years, kill thier members and even condone killing said children. And there is the fact that Abby never gets punished for her revenge.

[@commie_maybe]

Abby's revenge got a bunch of her friends killed. Including Owen, who she still clearly loved. I'd say that's pretty harsh punishment.

[@MrSupersmash93]

@@commie_maybe one, Abby immediately abandons WLF and even call them "you people" clearly casting aside any feelings for them for a person she barely met. With Owen she pretty venomously told him to get over his trauma meanwhile has spent years searching for Joel and the game pretty much acts she was justified. With Mel, she was pretty much cheating on her husband while she was pregnant. It pretty obviously that Abby plays with "Loosely".

[@MrSupersmash93]

@chandllerburse737 they still sided with them long and none of them seem to have a problem WLF also she still condone killing those kids. This was even point out by Mel WLF top Scar killer suddenly has a change of heart and has nothing to do with Owen?

[@MrSupersmash93]

@chandllerburse737 war doesn't kill Lovers and family members? It's not personal? What about the Iraq war?

[@MrSupersmash93]

@chandllerburse737 it is the same thing. Plenty of fiction has had some Protagonist hating a group and often times it is personal. Also what about real world example like ISIS.

[@ceufrscio707]

No just no. I wish i could see it. This is a letdown of a game. I have the $250 ellie edition. Unopen still. It has good moments but its like dlc.

[@davidstevens9461]

My experience with this series is odd. I played the first game, but lost interest and never finished it, not that the first game was bad, it just wasnt my cup of coffee. I wound up using it for a trade-in later. I started to hear about part 2 from various content creators, mostly bc of the story leaks and all the coverage about the crunch going on at ND. And all these content creators are talking about how awful this game is, and how no one should buy it, and Abby is a monster, and Drukman is a hack writer, etc. It became so ingrained in me that im supposed to hate this game that whenever someone brought it up, my first instinct was to get mad about a game ive never played and have zero interest in playing. To be honest, this video has helped me to let go of these resentments because again, im not into these games and am not interested in going back to them. Im indifferent to the series at best. But I will be forever salty that TLOU2 robbed Ghost of Tsushima of the awards it rightly deserved! XD

[@koolerman4443]

@@William5000000 Dude, are you MAD! Ghost of Tsushima was clearly the best game of 2020 and is an incredible stand-alone game. IMO, the journey of the character was handled so organically with great music, artsyle, combat, charecters, custimization and top tier storytelling. It was def robbed. Another 'average game' is an insult, just say it wasn't your cup of tea.

[@slickstar96]

​​​ok, a lot of great games came out in 2020. All of them at some point deserved game of the year. TLOU2 made people mad to emphasise us vs them mentality, final fantasy remade a beloved game to introduce new people to the franchise while keeping old fans happy, doom eternal perfected doom 2016 and was a good ass game. Animal crossing came out at a time people needed it to it provided comfort and social interaction to people because we couldnt go outside. Hades provided a game with a constant addicting gameplay loop for people to get lost in... Ghost wasnt robbed it just came out in a packed year where games did soo much so this notion of ghost being robbed is lost because all games that year DESERVED that title...

[@davidstevens9461]

​@@William5000000 I was joking with my last comment (I figured the 'xD' on the end would make that apparent).

[@TheMetalOverlord]

@@koolerman4443 It wasn't cinematic enough, it had too much gameplay and it didn't look like an hollywood movie, so it wasn't a good enough "moviegame" for the casual audience and the viodegaming critics, sadly.

[@kamen6009]

​@@koolerman4443 Its just another open world game,nothing special

[@TROY-MCCLURE-1991]

The "Return KZbin Dislikes" extension is very useful for videos like this.

[@juanddg4737]

What’s the current count?

[@TROY-MCCLURE-1991]

@@juanddg4737 (for some reason my reply is deleted) it's 522 likes vs 454 dislikes. Install the extension, it's a helpful feature.

[@NinesNX]

@@juanddg4737 Balanced, as all things should be.

[@citizenvulpes4562]

Because it validates your hivemind? I'm not against the extension btw, just making an observation. TLOU2 really isn't that bad.

[@___8241]

i'm sorry but you're insane if you really think that. i'll still give this a watch though and see where you're coming from. edit: alright, i take it back. i actually liked your perspective of this game and how it connects to so many themes of moving on both irl and in-game. it's not perfect, but i think there's a good conversation to be had in all this. glad you found such a powerful message in it.

[@lanceharris9069]

I love that you took the time to tell why this game personally matters to you and speaks to you as a person and gamer. Love your content and this was a great watch

[@derekmaullo2865]

He did a good job, but doesn't change the fact that Social media is full of cretins

[@TKsh1]

Abby felt like a retcon that the writers expected the player to understand, it didn't work because of what she does and how her story is told. Joel was written off by being out-of-chatacter just to give an excuse for the whole story, and the whole revenge message doesn't deliever anything, with the biggest reason being that the antagonist simply gets away with it after a long journey killing people, something that Red Dead Redemption 2 did MASTERFULLY with characters and story.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Watch the video. It responds to your message before you even wrote it, while you simply ignored anyone who dares disagree with you.

[@TylerEdlin84]

As a massive fan of part one nothing hit right with this game for me. I just didn’t enjoy any of it.

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

IMO TLOU2 will be a “REMEMBERED GAME”. However that means I can’t and never will call it a “masterpiece”. In the sense that usually I feel like that word is better to talk about something everyone agrees with. Just like how I love Nioh games, but duo to people’s lack of history knowledge and skill to switch stances means that while I love it, most people will not or even cannot reach the the ability to experience the game to its fullest. IMO the biggest failure of TLOU2 as a game is explained by something many of us probably heard before. “Ludonarrative Dissonance”. But to not make this comment ULTRA long let’s just stick to calling it inconsistent plot armor. It’s like Game of Thrones done wrong. If you look with a magnified glass this isn’t a way of portraying death as sudden, but rather it’s the same fun Horror scrip writers have when creating a group of characters for them to die. That’s who Abby’s group is. So the legacy beyond the game that TLOU2 left is “killing an IP” or rather the image. It’s literally “The Last Jedi of Gaming”. Star Wars Ep7 wasn’t hated by everyone when it came out, but after EP8 people hated the previous movie now. Before Part 2, TLOU1 was universally beloved, but after part 2 people backtracked their opinion and while almost everyone still praises it, you now have a lot more people calling it overrated. And Joel and Ellie were a new Sony mascot, but with part 2 this marketing push is less accepted, something that I would consider tragic but thankfully God of War didn’t fall in the same pit and many of us can look at Kratos and Atreus softly and being super thankful for experiencing that “father simulator”. And then there is the future projects. SW has had to focus on prequel/OT content to keep fans. Naughty dog had to Remake part 1 in order to try to keep their core fans, however the hype for Part 3 or the online (that’s in danger) is sadly low. This comment is very long and I don’t expect most to reach this point. So as a thank you. I want to hear your experience with “emotionally hard games”. IMO the end of TWD season 2 has to be the most insane moment I had with a story. It all went downhill in 1 episode with many important characters dying and letting you have very different ending for the first time. I remember finishing the game almost in shock and looking at the internet and realize that it was THANKS TO MY CHOICES that I reached MY FAVORITE ENDING POSSIBLE. There was also Life is strange (the first one). And returning to action based games like TLOU2, it was actually Ghost of Tsushima that saved the PS brand during this time, an absolute masterpiece and that I had a great experience discussing the decision of the ending as well as seeing people sharing their favorite in-game poems because they fit touched on a personal level. And on a personal level for me, the brotherly rivalry of Dante and Vergil on DMC 3 back in the PS2 days was something else, although on retrospective all modern gamers are allowed to laugh at graphics/delivery. That’s the end. Like I said before I would love to hear from your experiences in other games.

[@grandruby5343]

Ironically, I think the DMC series, with exceptions to DMC2 and the reboot have great stories and outperform TLOU in that regard. Being able to see the bitter rivalry that Dante and Vergil have, built off the foundation that both were powerless to save their mother from dying at the hands of demons, and both internalizing that in their own way, and then fighting due to their different ideals, was conveyed beautifully in DMC 3 and 5.

[@RayMoney97]

​@@grandruby5343I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[@teezy786]

I think they fumbled with the time line here. If they wanted us to like Abby so badly and push the same vengeance parallel with Ellie they should have had us play as Abby before she kills Joel. Have her target and reasoning be a mystery till finally killing him at the end of her segment. I get the message they were trying to push but it was too late then, everyone hated Abby already.

[@tevinbrown134]

(Im just now coming to this video sorry this is like a 5 month later response lol) I agree there couldve been a better way to tell the story. I think there goal was they wanted you to hate abby when you started her story. I think they wanted people to look more inward and literally walk a mile in the shoes of a person they truly hated and see their perspective. I definitely dont think it succeeded for a lot of people. For me it did. But thats the thing about art. Everyone has their own interpretations and feelings and I think they bet too much on guessing what they could get people to feel through the story

[@jaythegreenling]

that would literally remove what they were trying to do. if you already like abby before she kills joel, there's nothing to gain from seeing her perspective afterwards. the whole point was that abby was supposed to be irredeemable, and to then slowly make the player realise that she's not. that was the whole bloody point.

[@teezy786]

@ it's impossible to see it from that perspective by the player. She literally killed Joel, the person we spent an entire game growing to love and appreciate. When Joel made the decision to save Ellies life at the end it was a monstrous decision but we knew why Joel did it. With Abby it was far, far too late and simply didn't work. Most of the fandom hated her already and no amount of work in the game could change that. I know what you mean believe me but it didn't work.

[@jaythegreenling]

@teezy786 it did work. it worked for a ton of people, me included. joel is one of my favourite characters of all time, and watching him die absolutely wrecked me. i cried my eyeballs out, and i absolutely hated abby. but i continued playing the game, and that changed over time. and it went that way for a lot of people, i'm not special. the only reason it doesn't work for some people is because they refuse to engage with the story, and because in their mind, the only "right" way for joel to leave that room would have been to kill everyone in it, cause he's joel. that's what he used to do, and that's what people expected. but if people have expectations, it's up to them to be mature enough to recognise that they hate something because they didn't get what they wanted, and that it has nothing to do with the quality of the writing or anything else.

[@teezy786]

@@jaythegreenling See you're trying to push your experience onto other peoples experience which is anecdotal evidence. You might not be special but you're still a minority.

[@gertytk5528]

Great gameplay, bad story. And not just because of Joel being brutally killed, but other things too. For example the whole journey where Abby goes to get supplies to save Yara. Such a long journey, fighting the Rat King and all, only for Yara to die like 5 minutes after being healed. Felt completely pointless. I simply couldn't have cared less about Yara and Lev.

[@noname_noname_]

the pacing is so horrible, it was all over the place.. having to play in a flash-back within a flash-back straight after a cliff-hanger is the worst idea I've ever witnessed, it just came to a point that I just wanted to finish the game to end the suffering already.. Also, Naughty Dog straight lying in an interview and saying that Ellie would be the only playable character 1 year before release is just straight disgusting. I've tried to enjoy the gameplay alone in NG+ but its very hard when the game is trying to be a depression simulator. This game is a "political message" and its a straight insult to all of the OG TLOU1 fans. Thank you Bruce Straley. You made the best game ever.

[@nickymo]

imagine you are Abby's face model who went into some naughty dog office and got your face scanned for one day, nothing else to do with the project after that. Presumably years later you start getting flooded with messages from crying nerds "I cant believe what u did to joel!" And you're like "...Who's Joel?"

[@MrSupersonic2012]

Oh J, man. Normally I agree with a lot if your reviews, but this ain't it. To me TLoU2 is like the Last Jedi. Are there redeeming things in this game? Absolutely. But it does not deserve the title of masterpiece, not even close. Not with how hamfisted and shallow its message is. If people like the game, fine. But lets not pretend that it has a good story.

[@BIGMONEY629]

a good story is subjective to the individual, there’s a crowd of people who think the game has a great story and a crowd who thinks the opposite

[@darthrevan454]

Yup after listening to your Joel part of the video you already missed the mark. "He lived in a peaceful town for 4 years" "he was brought back to civilization" and to that i say, even before the world turn upside it was made clear that Joel didn't trust other people. Couple that with 20 years of experience and you think 4 years is going to wash all that experience away? No, not how that works. ESPECIALLY when hes also going out on patrols in those 4 years, something where his skills are needed and going soft wouldnt take place. Not to mention, there was ZERO indication that he was getting soft. This is just one of the many writing issues this game has. I could go on about its overly reliance on coincidences and using manipulative writing to make ellie look evil and the player feel like shit for decisions thats out of their hands. But i won't since all the tlou2 defenders do is ignore criticism and parrot the same two phrases "youre just mad Joel died" or "you didn't understand the story".

[@cinemachronic]

Last of us 2 haters love to ignore the many flaws with the last of us 1 as well. Weird how nobody talks about the coincidences in that game.

[@darthrevan454]

@cinemachronic Yeah and you troglodytes love to think the tlou had crazy coincidences but thanks for admitting tlou2 did have those.

[@geo0711]

Ehh, I went into this game preparing for the worst and with a massive preconceived notion about how much I'd hate it. By the end of the game, I not only ended up liking the game, but I preferred playing as Abby more than Ellie. Interestingly enough though, I find myself skipping Abby cut scenes, but watching the Ellie ones.

[@chadladspodcast260]

even if you like the game, saying it's misunderstood just shows and tells me you don't even try to understand why people dislike it. "Misunderstood Masterpiece" and "Is tlou still the best game" are shite titles that do nothing but make you look like yet another pretentious tlou fan who can't stand people who dislike the game.

[@JsReviews]

I mean, if the titles are the biggest problems, then I’ll consider changing them. I’ve used these exact titles before on other games and videos and it didnt make people nearly this upset. So it’s something to consider, since most of the discourse on these videos has been the titles, more than ever before for me.

[@chadladspodcast260]

@@JsReviews I mean yeah, Tlou is one of those things, where no matter what side you fall on, you're gonna get heat no matter what. The content within the video is fine and done well. It's just the title can give off a negative impression.

[@ivanbluecool]

2 is a bad story. 1 is the misunderstood one where people get mad that "he sacrificed the world for one girl" argument and I just see that as the experiment not actually being guaranteed to work and just kill his second daughter. Most if not all people would do the same thing if a loved one was going to die for a "chance" at humanity to survive. I wouldn't let my niece die and probably wing the doctors and leave. The world was already doomed 2 is just bad as it couldn't do "revenge is bad" and "have your revenge" storylines by dropping the ball and thats without getting into the writing and the ending

[@TheMetalOverlord]

People also forgot that the Fireflies are a terrorist group, that lied to Joel all the time and in the end tried to kill him instead of giving him what they have promised. So even if they develop the cure, they sure are no good people that will save the world out of good will, they most likely use it as a political tool to gain more power for themself.

[@ivanbluecool]

@@thatitalianlameguy2235 That's the problem with changing writers or pandering and not having a clear idea I understand both sides of the argument in 1 where if you could be the martyr to save humanity I'm sure some people would do it while their family would not want it to happen and vice versa just rejecting this notion as with enough time they could find another solution to save humans. I mean why not keep the kid alive and take some blood for testing? Skin sample etc. So many options even in that apocalypse of a world

[@mattmas6628]

The original game was supposed to have an ambiguous ending like you said. You’re supposed to wonder if Joel did the right thing, and put yourself into his shoes. But Neil Druckman had to go and retcon what joel did into him dooming humanity and the vaccine being a sure fire success. Druckman didn’t write the first game, but he took this franchise and changed it in his image. Even the TV show heavily changed the first games story in entirely poor ways.

[@ivanbluecool]

@@mattmas6628 pretty much what I'd say so I'll just give you a like as 1 having people argue with the right decision was great while 2 took your choice away as it's bad.

[@brandonlyon730]

The Fireflies also did this while she was unconscious, so she couldn’t even give her say on the matter. They were just ready to kill Ellie without any hesitation nor gave a damn about her own opinion.

[@nemesis3587]

Okay, before I write my critisism about this game, I don't like that toxic culture too, it just ruins solid argument and discussion opurtunities. Nowadays its all around you are PC vs you are delusional conspiracy theorist. You can't properly argue about anything. Can I argue about this game's story? Can I say anything about Abby's design? People shouldn't judge others for their opinions. Of course, people shouldn't turn it a personal attack. Sending death threats to voice actress or director is dumbest thing I've ever heard. By the way that resident evil 4 remake comment is hilarious, yeah, most people haven't played it when it come first because it was a freaking gamecube exclusive and saying they suck at the game, come on dude it is easiest game in the franchise. Here is another thing, unlike you I never liked RE4, I was a classic fixed camera style fan, back than I was very vocal about it, I did many heated arguments with RE4 fanboys, now I see my hate for RE4 is ridiculous and empty. I changed and not really care anymore and I still dislike RE4. You shouldn't ashame from your old videos, everybody has that kind of period in life, hating everything and being harsher, just move on. Lastly seeing these RE4 fanboys meltdown is sweet revenge, they blamed classic lover wearing nostalgia googles and blind to everything but who are blind now? Now for last of us, I always heard that game, wanna try it but after the part II controversy I became hesitant. Thankfully PS+ come fr my help. I played first game, it is okay just not my cup of tea. While gameplay is not my cup of tea but on the other hand I really liked story up until finale part. Games final part sucks. Neil Druckman claim whatever he want about cure but I'm not buying it. Firefly has full of shit, their plan have zero success rate. That's why I never tought Joel is wrong in his final actions. Now problem is making a sequel based around that decision. They couldn't sell the idea Joel is wrong the whole time. Because they created a distopian apocalypse that no hope. Could cure heal Critters or Bloaters? Absolutely not, they can't gave them shot without dieing. How could they distribute this cure, is other factions don't gonna try take it for their adventages? There are so many questions remain. By the way is Ellie's ofsprings become immune as well? They made her lesbian but she still could bear child, without experiments they immediately tried to chop her. And developers really tought I should feel sympathy for this hack of a doctor. Now for part II's plot, I get interested thanks to excellent adaptation, I looked more about the part II's story but everything I heard not make it any good. I should say it first Abby's design sucks. What the hell is this hulking monster ? She seriously looks like a male, maybe she was a male in first drafts but they changed female. If that character was a male, maybe story would be better. Or make her transgender, I have n problem with that as well, actually how Lev could be transgender? It is a complicated operation, at least Abby's father is a doctor he could change Abby. Okay enough with design argument. Biggest problem of this game the revenge plot. Honestly, it makes no sense. This world is dark depressive hell hole, peoples make everthing fr survival, many people did so much atrocity, people thinking about revenge is just silly idea. Even in first game Joel and Tommy fall apart and not saw each other years, they didn't know each other alive or death, now you trying to say if one of em killed other one tried to take revenge. Nope, I don't buy it, firefly caused deaths, other factions caused deaths now peoples suddenly go revenge madness while there are tons of monsters out there. Abby's motivation is not belivable, her friends motivation is not belivable they are suddenly go for a revenge trip and risking their lifes because they are friends. Abby killing Joel not makes sense becuase he saved her minutes ago, none of her friends bring this or tried to stop her. That's why I have no sympathy for her group. Ellie's eye for eye case makes a little sense but still not great either. Joel never want her endanger herself and she defeated in conflict and spared second time. After all that shit she went for revenge again for the cost of leaving Dina. Ellie turned straight up horrible person and after all that nonesense she spared Abby. She killed so many less guilty people. Sorry, but this story is horrible. You know you actually fixed main problem of story in your review. Abby didn't know about cure and made it for personal revenge. Why not make it about cure? These people could be remnants of fireflies or relatives. You could make them belive cure so much that their life ruined because of Joel's action. Abby not have to be that stupid doctor's daughter, she could be random guard or even better one of the nurse's daughter. They were much more innocent than that fraud doctor. Maybe this doctor gave everybody false hope, Abby and her co. had infected relatives and desperately waiting for a cure and fireflies gave them false hope after all fireflies are full of shit. It was a much belivable scenario, now you have people truely hate Joel and risk their life for revenge. After they killed Joel make them realise fireflies giving them false hope, make Abby's redemption much more belivable.

[@7emhosiks167]

They wanted to make a vaccine which would stop people turning, not a cure which would reverse the infection.

[@lightningmonky7674]

Everything about this game is so beautiful. The soundtrack is top notch, a fantastic mix of original and licensed music. Flawless acting, inspired directions, gripping scriptwriting, and FIRE gameplay. I honestly feel sorry for people who didn't have the same great experience I did. I respect you very much for coming around on this title. Shits profound

[@Nigel222]

I couldn't get into this game at all. I got it day of release when it came out and dropped it after 4 hours due to finding it extremely boring and finding all the characters annoying and unlikeable. Just not my cup of tea.

[@lorenzogarcia4335]

I have never seen this many people get heated over someone's POSITIVE opinion on a game in my life tbh its kinda crazy

[@onearmedbandit84]

The internet just doesn't understand that these videos are of people talking about their personal experience with the game and that sometimes they are okay with things that they aren't okay with and vice versa. Subjectivity is dead.

[@arjunmenon1796]

@@onearmedbandit84 Honestly the "Subjectivity is dead" thing goes really deep. Im conviced that online gaming culture and gaming discourse has completely corrupted the way people view games.

[@onearmedbandit84]

​@@arjunmenon1796 Honestly, its one thing if you didn't enjoy game in a franchise you held dear to the point that you are genuinely hurt by it, its another thing for folks that shared that experience to turn into a rabid collective of relentless bullies that spend so much of their energy hating the people that made that game and those saying that they've enjoyed it for the past three years. The people complaining about how the focus on the toxic culture of this fanbase is burying the 'legitimate criticism' are simply unable to read the room.

[@ridensroom6957]

The ending really bothers me. Ellie sees Abby on the post, cuts her down for a knife fight, when she should have stabbed her to death rather than deciding to fight her in the water. Why would Ellie fight her in the water instead or stabbing or shooting her where she was trapped? And then loses her fingers, lets Abby go and goes home with nothing. It feels like the most manufactured reason for a boss fight. Overall though, it feels like Ellie lost it all while Abby still had someone and wasnt alone. Both characters should have lost it all, not the one we care about the most.

[@TheDumbJames]

I felt very similar .. i love ellie so the ending was kinda shit for me

[@JMoney_TheGangster]

Well, she hasn't lost everything. There's still Jackson. She's probably gonna rebuild relationships there, hopefully with Dina as well.

[@vita7456]

Ellie didn’t kill Abby on sight because her desire wasn’t simply about Abby dying. Abby is basically the manifestation of all the hatred Ellie feels: the hatred she feels to herself for not forgiving Joel and the hatred she feels towards Abby for taking away the chance to forgive Joel. All that hatred and her trauma reveal that Ellie felt she needed the physical brutality of just fighting Abby to the death. And I think it’s intentional that if Ellie hadn’t went to Santa Barbra, Abby would have died, which recontextualizes her mission as a rescue mission instead of revenge mission. Does it matter if one character in a story loses more than another? Abby’s story is about redemption so it’s significant that she has Lev. But it’s also significant for Ellie to lose so much because her story is about self-destruction and the fact that her biggest fear is ending up alone.

[@cloudberry_9029]

A good story doesn't always give you what you want. TLOU2 tells a painful and messy and frustrating story for a reason, because the world of the game (like our world) is painful and messy and frustrating. You don't have to like what happens or agree with the characters' decisions to appreciate that.

[@demonte5305]

I mean I feel like you like a lot of ppl are just really over simplifying things, she obviously hesitated bc at the end of the day she isn’t really doing this from her own will. She’s been mentally forced to take on this journey bc it’s the only thing that she will feel closure. Then she comes to terms what the audience has seen the entire gameplay bc we have BEEN there for ALL of it of ALL sides told, which is that revenge won’t bring you anything it’ll just leave you feeling even more empty with added blood on your hands and she sees that. Not hating on your opinion at all as it’s your opinion but you can’t look at it as a black and white fictional story with a set ending. This is at its core a human story showing the tendencies and flaws that make us human and it’s a very realistic way to end it. She went through with the revenge when after being warmed by everyone that it’s not worth it then is faced with the forever lasting consequences of those actions both physical and metaphorical.

[@rescue_rwby]

And what I most loved about TLoU 2, is that they show us real humans, acting out of real emotions. It doesen't have to be Ellie or Abby but they showed us how most People would react on what happend. I heard some people complaining on how Ellies immunity wasn't important at all. That was the Point. TLoU was never a Story about the immunity or how the World could be saved. It was always about how Human beeings react in different ways on to different events to happen. Abby became what Joel was to Ellie and Ellie became for Abby what Abby was for her. It was never about a vaccine, this was always just a part of the Worldbuilding. Brilliant Worldbuilding. The cordyceps, the infection, the "cure", it was all just part of cover of this brilliant Book. The true story is within the Pages. And it was about the people. Everything else was just a way to deliver the Story.

[@Darek_B52]

This game never should've had Ellie and Joel in it. Their story was done.

[@mattmas6628]

Exactly. This series should have been an anthology

[@NightClawprower]

Amen, that's what I've been saying as well. They wanted to tell a story of revenge, but relied on known characters to make us feel gutted by the events instead of making a good story.

[@MrREAPERsz]

I would've been fine with playing Abby while she take steroids and punch everything the entire game. It would've been a decent meme. They didn't have to deconstruct Ellie and Joel.

[@mitchellcook6443]

Agreed

[@HeelPower200]

I think Abby doesn't work even if we didn't know who Joel and Ellie were. Her actions, especially her unflinching betrayal and torture of a stranger who saved her and her rejoicing in torturing scars, are those of a savage villain under any moral code. Its all made worse when its inflicted upon beloved characters though.

[@Parooka]

With the LOU2, I was one of the people who looked into the leak and found it really bad and did not want to play. Then I saw reviews and I still didn't want to play. I absolutely loved the first game. Then late in 2022, I decided to have closure and try to play the game. The gameplay still is pretty great, except you feel very inferior when playing with Ellie than Abby as your weapons aren't that great. I honestly couldn't care less about Abby. The way the story pacing was just left a bad taste imo. At the end, I hated Ellie's decision. She had everything she could've wanted at that time, but just throws it all away . I didn't care if Joel died. In fact I was kinda expecting him to die. But to have it in the first 15 minutes of the game, sure shock value was there, but it didn't really feel...right. In the end, my only beef with TLOU2 was the story. Everything else was pretty solid and graphics were amazing, but the story is what drove me to play the 1st game like you said in your last video.

[@teamwork_videogamer]

that WAS THE POINT!! death is never supposed to feel,"RIGHT" or "EARNED"

[@Parooka]

@chandllerburse737 yeah I heard that too about Abby being trans. Abby's look didn't bother me, but the other rumors/leaks were blown away out of proportion now that I think about it. I just knew a lot of people hated Abby back then because of that trans rumor.

[@Parooka]

@@teamwork_videogamer sure, again shock factor is there. But I think it would've been more impactful if it was built up and pacing of the story was different imo. I remember hearing rumors that Joel was going to die in this game, but I didn't care. Joel should die according to certain perspectives of those he hunted down or hurt.

[@Parooka]

@chandllerburse737 that's nuts. I didn't like it from the leaks I heard because you got to play as Abby after killing Joel and I was like, "Why the heck would I do that?" I personally would think if we got to know Abby before and built up to the moment she killed Joel that would have been a huge impact compared to what we got. That would have been, "Oh shit! She's the bad guy?! That's why she is doing what she doing?"

[@thesnatcher3616]

@chandllerburse737 Doesn't she literally have sex with a guy? You would think said guy would bring something up if Abby you know, wasn't really biologically female? From what I know, the trans bits seem to be a bit overexaggerated.

[@thiefamongu3857]

Nah man I'm sorry but this ain't it. I understand the story is trying to be about forgiveness despite the wrong things people have done, but it's horribly executed. Killing Joel off is a literal political statement on gaslighting you into believing protecting your tribe/ your kin is wrong and instead you should sacrifice your family to the state for the "greater good". Joel made the overall right decision in the last game and this game gaslight you into thinking he was wrong for what he did. Ellies character is ruined too but I'm not opening that can of worms

[@JustE-in6to]

Joels choice doomed humanity i don't think he made the right choice matter of fact joel was not a good person just because you agree with his choice doesn't make it right just like mine isn't the right one either that its not black or white bro

[@drekiskrek5008]

​@@JustE-in6to Humanity was doomed either way, the odds of Ellie's death saving ANYONE was absurdly low.

[@frankspick7544]

@@JustE-in6to no it didn't if you actually check they had other people like ellie who they killed and gained no ground on saving humanity. So joel saying no to what there doing is the correct thing to do. because they showed they were incompetent.

[@SirButton-]

@@JustE-in6to Through the last of us 1 we see just how incompetent the fireflies are, they never make any headway in their endeavours and always end up dead - or just blowing people up in safe zones because they're terrorists.

[@thiefamongu3857]

@JustE-in6to fidnt matter if a cure was made through ellies death, humanity was fucked regardless. Joel is a relatable realistic character. If you were a parent you wouldn't sacrifice your family on the CHANCE of a cure being made. Easy for you to sit on your high horse and judge Joel but you don't know what you you'd do to protect your family. Games like these are trying to propagandise and gaslight you into thinking that mindset is wrong. It's all about compliance and control

[@TheDanimatorsChannel]

I dont care what anyone says, there was more story to tell with Joel and grown up Ellie than the game gave us. I think Dina should have been killed and you play the first half as Ellie but then Joel finally appears and helps her 1/3 of the way through or something. It doesnt help that the teasers and trailers literally did false advertising.

[@clydu91]

That sounds like shit.

[@aranaewastaken]

"How the Last of Us 2 is as a game is usually the part that comes up the least" i think that line is emblematic of why i typhically avoid massive storydriven games like this. Even if it is great i wont know if all i hear is people whinging over wokeness or bad writing!

[@zachinkins1839]

J, the marketing was straight up misleading to what the story would be, Neil himself lied about it. There wasn't evidence of Joel's death in the marketing, he appeared at the end of the story trailer in the place of Jessie to purposely mislead that he would appear in the present story with Ellie in Seattle. It is a huge coincidence that Abby and her crew were near Jackson the day both Joel/Tommy and Ellie/Dina are on patrol. J it's incredibly disingenuous to discredit the genuine and valid opinions of a significant portion of the fans who disliked many aspects of the story of the game. Part 2's writing is abysmal compared to Part 1. How can a story designed on purpose to spit the fanbase be a masterpiece? Abby gets away with her revenge and never learns any lesson from it. She loses her friends sure but she believes she did the right thing by killing Joel, however Ellie's arc ends up being 'revenge bad.' Dina's role in this story disappears once she reveals her convenient pregnancy and she is sidelined until the theatre confrontation, with her only real purpose to give Ellie a baby to care for and a family by the end. There's no discussion on Ellie's immunity that she revealed to Dina, it becomes about Dina's pregnancy. Abby's crew are insufferable people who have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Abby's 180 to save Yara and Lev and betrayal of the WLF was ridiculous and only served to give Abby her own 'Ellie.' This whole game has manipulated people into believing that it's deep and amazing when its not.

[@FiendaroÖ]

Amazing how people are already doing exactly what he explained was bad to do.

[@TheSwilkos]

The first game was like this too! You’re telling me that Marlene somehow doesn’t hear Joel and Tess execute Robert?? You’re telling me that Ellie does a complete 180 and acts all happy and chipper three weeks after her best friend Riley dies? How the hell did Ellie keep Joel alive for two months after he impaled himself on a piece of metal? It makes no sense! Also the Pittsburgh Hunters and especially the raiders in Jackson are so cartoonishly evil! It’s pretty much a statement saying “murder bad”! I don’t need to be told Murder bad! I love both games. Are you nitpicking Part 2 because you feel the story is too much for you and you have to justify it by saying it’s objectively bad? It’s not black and white.

[@zachinkins1839]

@@FiendaroÖ How is commenting J's inaccuracies bad? He's inaccurate at points in this video, explain to me how that is possibly bad?

[@zachinkins1839]

@@TheSwilkos Both games are filled with these plot holes, I'm not defending Part 1 either. Part 2 is flawed to the core whereas Part 1 is mostly coherent.

[@TheSwilkos]

@@zachinkins1839 Part 2 isn’t flawed to the core in my eyes :D I love it!