Lecture 1 on Tolkien's "The Silmarillion"

[@richardwanker1958]

That "foulness" you speak of at about 35:35 is what brought me into Tolkien's world. I had read The Hobbit 30-35 years ago and seen the cartoon, but that's all the experience with Tolkien I ever had until the "foulness" began in 2001. Since then, my personal Tolkien book collection has grown from zero to about twenty (around 30 if you include books about Tolkien and/or his works, by authors other than his son). Movies are never carbon copies of books. Can we not enjoy them for what they are in lieu of trashing them at every possible moment? Differences? Yes, always have been, always will be. Superior medium? Almost always the original source material. But that's about all you'll get from me. Loved those movies; love them all the more for making me want to delve deeper into the world of Tolkien.

[@fodicky4]

You are wrong about Galadriel though; she is 3rd generation and not 2nd gen as implied in the lecture. She is the only daughter of Finarfin, third born of Finwe, who himself was an awakened Elf. I will not take the lecture away from you though as it is extremely informative eye opening lecture on the Silmarilion

[@squamish4244]

This lecture really ties the room together.

[@ladymoonscar]

sweet Eru, i would love to have this as a class!

[@squamish4244]

Guy Gavriel Kay, Neil Gaiman, obviously George RR Martin, Robert Holdstock, Ursula LeGuinn...some writers pull off original stuff. Ironically so many authors have followed Martin's 'dark fantasy' route that there is actually a backlash developing for more Tolkienesque stuff again...essentially Tolkien's work was so comprehensive and covered so many archetypes that in order to completely escape Tolkien you would have to write something that wouldn't be fantasy.

[@lonelyqueen86]

the chapter when Elwe Singollo meets Melian is one of the most beautiful love scenes in all of literature in my opinion. "She spoke no word; but being filled with love Elwe came to her and took her hand, and straightaway a spell was laid on him, so that they stood thus while long years were measured by the wheeling stars above them; and the trees of Nan Elmoth grew tall and dark before they spoke any word." id love to take a class like this!

[@rgaleny]

To cope with and respect "the livings" connection to "living nature" is a kind of Stoic idea.

[@palisadesk]

Tolkien himself on several occasions used the same name for two different Elves. Galdor is one example, Legolas another. Both these names were used for Elves in Gondolin and then reused for *different* Elves in LOTR; there are other examples. Tolkien wrote conflicting things (his opinion changed over time) about elves reincarnating/returning, and about what happens should they choose NOT to return, or choose not to go to the Halls of Mandos, etc. There are complexities you seem unaware of.

[@sybillestahl8646]

Thank you for the discussion of the bond between elves and the earth, and their fate. It's something I wasn't clear on, not even as far as Tolkien explains it.

[@squamish4244]

Tolkien mentions reincarnation in one of his letters, in response to a query about how it could happen in Middle Earth if the mythos was essentially Christian. He basically says that Eru Illuvatar can do whatever he wants and so reincarnation isn't out of the question.

[@c33r0k33]

Stunning!!! I just heard the first lecture... [off topic]--? I'd Love to hear you lecture on Zenna Henderson's The People, series!! [back to topic] I'm glad you touched on Tom B. many, questions around him. ..he was there before Melkor... He restores the injured/dying showing homage as he does so... He can withstand Melkor beyond all others in Middle Earth...Olórin feels obligated to speak with him before leaving Middle Earth. Perhaps he sees the 'bigger picture' across the ages..

[@frenchcookie42]

54:00 "Lots of elves have the same name" Respectfully I disagree. The only time it name's have been copied was an early edition of Silmarillion when Glorfindel was going to be unrelated to the the elf in Fellowship but Professor Tolkien changed his mind, and made them one and the same. There was also another Legolas who came from Gondolin, but almost certainly perished. So no elves share the same name, similar maybe but thats it. Feel free to correct me, please.

[@joannefisher3281]

I love the Silmarillion, but this gave some greater clarity to it. Thanks.

[@Gamefreak2x9]

Awesome video! I love The Silmarillion! Great job!

[@rgaleny]

From the Music of the Anyor, in the discord of Melkor, a play Manifests itself in the life of the Elves.

[@DaVoice85]

Okay. Thank you for your quick reply. I really appreciate it.

[@imagomonkei]

What I wouldn't give to have a class like this at my university.

[@clc81990]

I wish they offered this class at my school

[@skairkrowz]

hey dr. ted just wanted to say that im a huge fan of your lectures. I love reading tolkien then chilling out drinking a bit late at night and watching your vids. Just wondering have you read A Song of Ice and Fire by George R. R. Martin? just wondering. hope to here back. best of luck

[@connollybob9]

I think this guy is secretly an Istari. Possibly one of the blue wizards who disappeared early on in the Third Age.

[@milantre]

if the map at the beginning is that of Beleriand then he makes a mistake when he says that the events concerning The Hobbit and LOTR. They do happen east of that map like he says but then point at the wrong direction, the grey heavens would towards the right side of that map not on the left

[@nowthenzen]

both of whom informed their literature heavily with religion.

[@jackafa92]

i wish i had a class like this one :(

[@CultOfShinnonism]

Hey Dr. Ted, I've seen various quote of Tolkien's either regarding or referencing "subcreation", but I haven't found the... entire puzzle, if you will. Would you happen to have uploaded a video about his theory of subcreation?

[@rgaleny]

Man is born free but in a deterministic setting.

[@connoreberhard8769]

discussing Tolkien should be a pastime

[@JackDanielsCHS08]

I wish my school had this... The only class that was offered was Psychology of Harry Potter ;(

[@jakeman4943]

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

[@RepublicConstitution]

Wow, I love this info!!

[@perfectlydiverse]

Hey Dr. Sherman, I'm loving being able to watch your lectures. I was able to take your Tolkien & Rowling class but none of the others, so being able to see them is a real treat. Could you flip the view of your web cam though? I can't read you writing backwards. :-) Thanks for all your work!

[@XST4RSKREAMX]

I enjoyed your lecture so much!! Is there a part 2? ( can't find it). I appreciate the thoroughness of your lecture and how you do not overlook even the smallest letter but develop it and explain it very well.

[@dmorlan]

The Silmarillion is not an easy read. This lecture has a lot of substance, but also a lot of misnomers. It's easier to read from something than to say things on the fly, and without a bunch of easy notes. It's commendable, but (and this IS so understandable) a lot of instances of the wrong names/places being given. Still enjoy the video very much.

[@Lengsel7]

Yes, he came in search of Mt. Dew and hotpockets.

[@DaVoice85]

This was a great lecture. I have taken up my own study of Tolkien and his writings. I wish I had this couse somewhere close to me. My fiance has had extensive study of CS Lewis and I want to have more knowledge of JRR Tolkien. Is there anywhere I could get these classes online or at least use some of your experience?

[@andrewniles1]

Somehow I think Tolkien was more right about the beginnings of the universe than we shall ever know.

[@tedsherman7709]

I'm not a Tolkien linguistics scholar, but I have been reading Tolkien for 35 years and teaching this material for 20 years. Moreover, I edited Mythlore (a journal of Tolkien and other mythopoeic writers) for 6 years.

[@JenniferYa]

Hi, I know I might get berated for asking this, but does anyone know/remember anything in this lecture that relates to Melkor, Mairon, Curumo, Eöl, Maeglin, or Fëanor & his sons, preferably something about light/darkness (or good/evil)? Thank you in advance :)

[@TengwarTeacher]

This makes me want my copy that is at home so bad....argh!

[@ippolytos1]

Is the map backwards?

[@morthim]

i think the video is backwards since he is lecturing in english and writing right to left.

[@EddieFoShow1991]

very few people i'd like to meet out of admiration, pronounced Toll keen, (phonetically)

[@DynomitePunch]

Excuse me Dr. Sherman, but could you tell me what kind of class you teach? thanksin advance, just curious

[@andrewniles1]

Perhaps he is the father of the Istari Wizards earthly bodies! I can dream cant I?

[@grossepointemichigan]

But not incarnation of humans. It happens occasionally with the Elves.

[@nowthenzen]

why not both?

[@FrenkMelk]

ya blew it.

[@rgaleny]

Nirvana. Fill the whole with your Buddha nature (Virtue) And with Void (Stillness).

[@grossepointemichigan]

It's actually pronounced TALL-keen (courtesy of hearing it directly from Christopher Tolkien during a lecture in Oxford).

[@GrossInsubordination]

Ulmo dwells by himself because he is all wet and stuff, lol

[@kxmode]

Or he's really into Tolkien's works.

[@strangerthanknown]

Is this a Literature course? Or a Religious Studies Course?

[@grossepointemichigan]

From what college or university?

[@EddieFoShow1991]

the big le bowski of J.R.R.Tolkien

[@ezeyouchannel]

He doesn't understand the concept of the Elves and their binding to the world either, that they die but come back and take up their old names, that's in the book, but he says oh no Elves get 'recycled' and they reuse the names over and over, like Joe Smith! NO!!! If a name repeats it's because that particular Elf came back after death, Glorfindel for example! He didn't even know where the Elves awoke! Not a great authority on Tolkien at all!

[@EddieFoShow1991]

well you showed me, ;)

[@squamish4244]

Khal Drogo - Drogo Baggins Samwell Tarly - Samwise Gamgee The Night's Watch - The Dunedain Old Valyria - Numenor Boromir dies in the middle

[@shgfe3ay]

is it possible to use your videos on our Feanor page? facebook.com/ FeanorOfficial?

[@cuchulain55]

beleriand is north west of the rest of middle earth.

[@ComradeStanimir]

Ascalon is Biblical, as well.

[@SuperLawilson]

Wish he could pay UAB a visit. I would love to have some engaging conversations about Tolkien. Mind visiting the UAB Pharmacology Department for fun? Lunch is on me. Cheers!

[@tfrosini]

lol

[@kxmode]

I really get sick of fantasy because it's ripped off so much. For example Malchor (or what the name sounds like) is a pivotal character in the lore of Guild Wars. He was one of the foremost sculptors of statues to the six gods of humanity in GW. His love for Dwayna was so great that it drove him to madness and finally suicide. I thought this was unique to Guild Wars... turns out it, like everything else, is copied from Tolkien. :-/

[@saminatariq561]

kxmode it's melkor lol..malchor means thief(of money) in urdu

[@ezeyouchannel]

Agh, that was awful when he says about Varda, this guy has clearly not looked into the basics of Elvish, he can't pronounce half of the names and that attempt at the Elbereth prayer was ghastly! I'm not a Tolkien scholar but I have been reading his work for 13 years so I know a thing or 2 about it! This guy just seems like he's picked up the book and decided to do a lecture on it on a whim!

[@JackDanielsCHS08]

fail troooooll

[@dpbloss]

This guy is seriously deluded. I have a Doctorate in Tolkien studies and I'm very embarrassed.

[@iOctaviousSage]

I apologize but the pronunciation and explanation hurts my senses. Sorry:(

[@jreal3072]

If only we studied the Bible with as much fervor. If only we could recite the fruits of the Holy Spirit as easily as the first beings of this made up universe.

[@richardwanker1958]

Tolkien's works bear more truth than your goofy Bible.

[@richardwanker1958]

I don't believe in your God, so, yeah, like I said...

[@rgaleny]

Reincarnation. Is it Christian? If GOD, Himself, can make Jesus turn up as a picture on a piece of toast, and cause the Sun and the rain to fall on the just and the unjust, then He can Reincarnate you if He wants to.

[@tedsherman7709]

Yes, Beleriand is to the west of Middle-earth in the 3rd age. Or, to put it another way, Middle-earth is to the east of Beleriand in the first age. If I misspoke, I apologize--it happens sometimes.

[@tedsherman7709]

This lecture was for a course on the inklings.

[@tedsherman7709]

The elves can die and later be reincarnated after a period of time in the Halls of Mandos. No one else is allowed that opportunity. The flip side, of course, is that the Elves are tied to Arda--their fate is bound up with the fate of Arda, so when at the end of time the world is unmade/remade, the elves have no place in it. This is why they are so curious about the "gift of death" to men, which they do not understand.

[@tedsherman7709]

No, not a specific assignment. The lectures lead up to an essay examination.

[@tedsherman7709]

How? Seriously, point out where I'm wrong. You say "that's in the book." That's in what book? The Silmarillion? If I said they reuse names, then I spoke in haste and incorrectly. Some of what I say about the elves is based on Tolkien's unpublished drafts of the essay "On Fairy-Stories." I have basically a day or two to cover the Silmarillion, so I can't cover everything. I've been teaching Tolkien for over 20 years and reading him for 35 years.

[@tedsherman7709]

I go into Tolkien's theory of subcreation in my lectures on his essay "On Fairy-Stories."

[@tedsherman7709]

Unfortunately, I have not yet developed this as an online course.

[@tedsherman7709]

yes, i know it's flipped.

[@tedsherman7709]

How? Seriously, point out where I'm wrong. I have basically a day or two to cover the Silmarillion, so I can't cover everything. I've been teaching Tolkien for over 20 years and reading him for 35 years.

[@Splucked]

+Ted Sherman No disrespect intended, but how can you study/teach Tolkien for decades and not know the correct pronunciation of his name or the names of his characters?

[@tedsherman7709]

I started the first Martin novel when it first came out and got maybe 100 pages into before I stopped it. It just didn't keep my interest.