Lecture 15 The Gothic Part 2

[@sarahmarie38]

Hello I am a graduated student (teaching ECE) and found you via TikTok and I just wanted to say I 💜 your energy & voice okay that’s all

[@superstelly]

So interesting to learn that the stone was painted to look like marble! All the imagery of cathedrals that I’ve seen always has that dark, aged stone.

[@509brutus]

Bit of a garble on the Chartres towers. First, we need to distinguish between the towers and spires. The north tower was started about 8 to 10 years before the south tower, @1135 or so. The north was built to be separate from the church itself. The south tower and spire were built at the same time. The north had a couple of different spires, including a wooden one that burned down in 1506. What we see was built 1507 to 1513 or so, and is flamboyant Gothic.

[@jacobmanns2351]

Hi! I’m a senior at OSU and I found you on tik tok. Enjoy these videos tremendously, I’m about to finish this series. Keep up the great work!

[@kontrkultywacja]

Great lecture! Makes the subject interesting and lovely.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Apostles are not always represented by 12 in the Middle Ages, their number often just fits the space - people knowing anyway that they are 12, so there is not always need to emphasize it.

[@thomaskristensen4679]

Watching from Denmark and loving it!

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Don't get me wrong, this is a good instructive video and I am happy that this subject gets to the USA. There are just a few mistakes which could be avoided if when you don't know avoid assuming things without verifying them.

[@Leonardo-bd3ik]

That is pervasive problem in art history. Tons of unproven assumptions, especially when it comes to “reconstructing” intentions of the artist. Janson’s art history is unreadable for this reason

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

@@Leonardo-bd3ik Yes and no. There are a lot of things we actually do know, but that Trevis apparently doesn't. After a while I just stopped correcting. I'll just point out one exemple: showing Saint-Rémi de Reims, while talking about the cathedral of Reims (both are extremely important buildings to the development of Gothic from different periods, Saint-Rémi being the older one, but he just thinks they are the same). He just took some picture of Reims from the internet without verifying which building it is about. They don't look the same at all: Saint-Rémi represents a much earlier state of gothic style, it is not a totally forgivable thing when you think you are a historian of art, but let's not be too harsh: I am, as said, happy that the subject is taken up at all.

[@Leonardo-bd3ik]

@@petrapetrakoliou8979 Can you recommend me some good youtube channels for art history?

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

"They didn't have marble in the Middle Ages", where did you get that from? Chartres didn't have marble, it wasn't a ubiquituous material, but there was marble in the medieval churches, especially used for sculptures and even sometimes in architecture: Purbeck marble in particular in English cathedrals. Are you assuming these things, or have you actually seen them written down somewhere?

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

If you divide a square into two, its diagonal will also be divided into two. What is so Celestial Jerusalem about that? By the way, there is a stained-glass window from the 13th c. at Sens representing the Celestial Jerusalem. There it is round.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

The north tower was not finished 20 years later the than the south, it was finished 300 years later. Do you see the difference in the style?

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

oops, there is no crossing tower at Amiens...

[@maddiekits]

Out of curiosity what was the largest ever not still standing as you implied during the Amiens section? I can't seem to find an answer to this.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

In fact at Chartres the Virgin is ALSO wearing a crown. Not much difference about that in Reims. About a half of the Romanesque madonnas already wear crowns.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

"Late Gothic is going to be infinitely more decorative" - and also often infinitely less.

[@cesarrodrigues212]

sempre vou amar

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

What do you mean by "largest" cathedral? Do you only consider Gothic cathedrals? Is it the height, the length, the cross-section? Amiens is the highest gothic cathedral for its vaults that was nearly completed. Beauvais and Cologne are higher but only their choir were completed in the Middle Ages. All are smaller than Hagia Sophia which is not Gothic, and dates to the 6th century but is also a cathedral. No Gothic cathedral was ever totally completed as far as I know, not those bigger ones anyway.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

It is not the ribs that make it sexpartite or quadripartite, it is the areas between the ribs.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Where did you see Capetian monarchs on jamb figures?

[@xavierwaterkeyn]

I know it's a little late, but "Reims" is actually pronounced more like "ras", with a rolled "r".

[@cesarrodrigues212]

sempre te amei

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

I don't see how one could confuse Reims and Amiens even by looking at details.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Hey, Chartres is not a village, man, it never was since Antiquity...

[@Mronmovies]

15:03 gothic portal terms

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Those are not the original colours projected on the facade of Amiens, they are random colours. It was not made by scientists.

[@cesarrodrigues212]

eu te amo travis

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

How would they know in the Middle Ages how an ancient Hebrew priest is supposed to look like?

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Oh my God, are you assuming Gothic architecture and Goth subculture have anything in common?!

[@Paolo8772]

Cologne is bigger than Amines

[@Paolo8772]

Amines was started earlier by 28 years and most of the interior was completed by 1270 after only 50 years since it stared to be constructed, and to this day remains the biggest Cathedral in France. But Cologne is still bigger, taller, more vertical, more perfect, and best exemplifies the opitome of high French Gothic architecture.

[@maddiekits]

@@Paolo8772 I think the important distinction is that Amines was completed during the correct time period, so it is the largest truly gothic Cathedral while the majority of Cologne was built in the 1800s making it arguably more Neo-gothic. Although there are a few others that are more debatable if they count compared to Cologne as well.

[@Paolo8772]

@@maddiekits I realize that, but Cologne was built in the high french gothic style, so "neo" only implies when it was built but doesn't accurately reflect the artifice. The Choir of the Cologne cathedral took over 70 years to build because although they knew about Amiens they didn't know how it was being built, so they actually employed romanesque building techniques on Cologne from 1248 until 1322 and still started the most perfect example of high French gothic architecture. But it's true that most of Amiens was built in about 60 years which is itself a marvel. It's also the closest cathedral to that of Cologne, it's the one that most inspired Cologne and it's also France's largest cathedral. But I still like Cologne better, just because it IS better.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Soissons is more of a "high-Gothic" church model than Chartres is.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

No, not the kings and rulers of France in the gallery, pleeease: the kings of the Ancient Testament. France's kings were represented in their great halls, not on the cathedrals.

[@petrapetrakoliou8979]

Wow, at a moment you are showing the choir of Saint-Remi of Reims and think you are presenting Reims cathedral!!!! People, people.... I am sure you know much better other areas of art history.