Why You Need To Talk To Republicans

[@LeejaMiller]

Go to ground.news/leeja to check your media Blindspots - A great way to cultivate empathy and understanding. Sign up through my link this month to get 30% off unlimited access.

[@kenny87ification]

I think as of now only and only Hinduism can fix all the issues in United States. America needs Hinduism more than ever...

[@VEEZY55]

As a black person I find it insulting to tell me I need to sit down and listen to why white supremacists are white supremacists and a white supremacist country... I really don't care how white supremacists are thinking or why they're thinking the way they are

[@VEEZY55]

It's not my obligation as a black man to save this country anymore... I don't need to sit and listen to people tell me why they're being racist.. I don't need to understand somebody's racism... my people don't have time to sit and be understanding when they're using everything from immigration, a fake War on Drugs.. and gentrification to not only push black people out of their neighborhoods but to permanently make them a underclass by placing newcomers above them and making them honorary white supremacist

[@jonathansykes4986]

You are beyond useless if not harmful. We have to talk to the aggressors and oppressors? This is you "We, as black folk, have to talk to the slave masters to get progress. They won't respond well to aggression". You are harmful to leftist causes. We have had 30 years of their oppression (if not longer, I am just talking about since the 94 midterms). Why should we talk with these people. They are brainwashed.

[@codyknight6720]

‘I know that republicans are bigoted fascists actively calling for your death and suffering, but have you considered how not listening to them makes THEM feel? :(‘ This is you, this is how silly this garbage sounds when new age Nazi’s are on here on a warpath. People need to wake up - these are not normal political divide, these are the gaps between right and wrong, good and evil. That isn’t hyperbole; one half of this situation wants the other dead and eradicated. You can’t meet that anywhere with anything but abject resistance. Signed, Someone sick of being told I need to show more grace when discussing my existence with people that want me dead.

[@SpoopySquid]

"We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist." - James Baldwin

[@maggiedacatt]

THIS.

[@MrLifter20]

Exactly this!

[@DJKokaKola]

Problem is every major issue is centered around these things. Climate change. Capitalism. Queer and trans people. The two sides are literally "kill em all" and "maybe don't kill em all?". You can't find a middle ground there, and you shouldn't.

[@zeynepgulsu1899]

no one said love, you don't have to hate? do you want these people to diseppear? they exist, they always will, should we send them into space?

[@uhohhotdog]

Which is 90% of right wingers

[@RDHardy79]

It is really hard to talk politely with people who are always screaming about how they want you dead.

[@franklinmartin1641]

10 bucks says no right winger got in your face and said they wanted you dead

[@petervizzini4006]

Lgbtq has become extremely dangerous

[@Huldschinsky]

FUCKING. LOUDER.

[@Ellieempress]

I agree ❤❤

[@KarlSnarks]

Yeah, if someone isn't interested in having an open conversation with respect to your humanity, it's not worth it to have that conversation at that point.

[@coreyeverett5500]

In my opinion, there's really only two kinds of conservatives. "I won't support that until you explain why we need it", and "I won't support that unless it hurts the people I don't like". The first, I can have good conversations with. The second, I cannot.

[@Sqwivig]

Sadly the majority of Republicans/Conservatives are the type who just want to hurt others. The types of Cons who are willing to listen and have their ideas challenged is rare. The Republican Party has become a death cult.

[@maggiegraham2492]

Agreed, and a lot of the time, they are like well data can make anything true and so the explanation just doesn’t even matter.

[@BreezyLavender]

@@maggiegraham2492 or they’ll say I’m biased because I’m a leftist as if somehow they’re not also biased.

[@Justanothermusicnerdxo]

I have never met someone who says “I won’t support that unless it hurts the people I don’t like”, so I think you may be approaching things in a bad faith manner.

[@Matthew-zn3zm]

​@@JustanothermusicnerdxoBuild the wall, ban all Muslims, this cup is filled with liberal tears.... Yes, you have heard them say that or you haven't been listening

[@FiadhMusic]

I live in an extremely red state and I’m the only leftist in my immediate family. I am not exaggerating when I say that the ONLY reason I have peaceful relationships with any of them is because we do not talk about politics. We can talk about almost anything else, and sometimes talk about softer issues that don’t personally affect them in very vague terms. But if we are going to talk about anything that has more meat or gravity to it, it’s going to be a disaster. I understand now after MANY years of obsessively researching that they are victims of propaganda. I understand that propaganda and its origins well now and I know that engaging in dialogue against it is useless. My ability to coexist with my family hinges on my ability to keep my mouth shut about politics.

[@erinmac4750]

Yes. I have family members like that. If I do happen to engage in the political area, it's usually to my regret and painful. Propaganda is a powerful drug.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

Not engaging is some degree of civility. These days, in that arena, call it a win.

[@kant.68]

They and you don’t, sure . 😂😂😂😂 keep thinking you’re superior only because you are leftist.

[@patriciahawks1511]

This is also my situation. When you live in an area where almost everyone else is a Republican, you cannot talk politics. They know they are in the majority so they just laugh at Democrats. Also, in many cases, their political views are so entwined with their religious views that they perceive any disagreement as religious persecution.

[@ozzie_theotter]

This, exactly this. Except in my case, they openly talk about/watch politics constantly whenever I and my mom, the only non-republicans, are visitng. It's a nightmare, because all of them are so in love with this idea​ of me being the "one of the good ones," yet they don't a thing about me because I never feel safe nor comfortable enough to talk about what I actually want to.@@patriciahawks1511

[@thecreatornooj1328]

I opened myself up to discuss LGBTQ perspectives and rights with my Christian Republican families. They know that I know their stance because it was the one I was raised on. When I communicate just the facts and reality to them, without even getting to the conclusions about those facts, they shut me down. They do not want to hear it. I have been told by my mother that I, her gay atheist son, know more about the bible than she does, but that she isn't interested in hearing what I have to say. My dad said he doesn't want to understand. They do not care. All that was accomplished was frustration and strife, and a stubborn adherence to the idea that I and everyone like me should burn forever because of who we love or who we are. And I'm also not going to put "Burn gay people forever" and "Let me love who I want" on equal footing. One of those ideas is worthy of consideration and the other is absolutely deplorable. There can be no compromise or meeting in the middle between them. "We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist." - James Baldwin

[@ziyu8061]

I'd say there are some differences between holding certain opinions and denying your existence. Some conservatives believe that being gay is sinful, while others have disagreements on certain laws. We need to tell them apart.

[@themasterofinfinity]

Yeah but that's not how laws are made, morality has nothing to do with politics

[@AP-ym1lo]

Ultimately, the goal is not to change every conservative, just enough conservatives. If absolutely nothing else, make them a little less crazy.

[@sapphomet.7777]

I got 9 death threats just walking two blocks to work over the last year from transphobes im not entertaining the idea I gotta swallow that and civil discuss

[@Cavemanner]

​@@themasterofinfinity🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@arcanineryu]

As the left wing and centrists have gotten better at arguing for their position, the right wing has been getting better at ignoring them. And now, reaching many right wingers looks more like cult deprogramming than anything else.

[@DebunkLeftistPropaganda]

Bullcrap. The collective left behaves like a female and is difficult to talk to and reason with. Females use emotions, men use logic. The right is more man-like. I suggest you read Leviathan and its Enemies by Samuel Francis. Nothing the left does is logical, and the left is literally colluding with large corporations and globalists and our literal enemies to undermine this nation, and there is plenty of evidence that demonstrates this, its not just "some conspiracy theory". Its difficult for leftists to understand these things because the left uses face value thinking and doesnt apply deep thought. That's why the right has become more disgusted, and the left is the reason DT came to power. Please do some reading and actual research. The right is driven by disgust, and is more so reactive to the left. The left on the other hand is driven by envy and emotion. The left is a very collectively emotional entity. The policies they favor are mostly all emotional and prioritize moral virtuosity, and short term gratification in exchange for long term disaster. For example: weaponizing our currency over Russia, it's akin to a female going "OMG?! Did you really just do that?! I'm gonna ruin your life!! I'm gonna tell everyone you're so mean and bad! I'm taking back everything I ever gave you! I'm leaving! Bye!!" And guess what the end result of this is? BRICS got expanded to BRICS+ and the future of the USD as a reserve currency is sabotaged, as it relies on global influence for its strength. Economists have started finally admitting this too. How about climate? The left gets emotional over it, show them a pic of birds covered in oil and they'll flock to the streets to block traffic. The left is trading long term strategic wellbeing for moral virtuosity and emotions. China controls and exports 90% of green energy materials, by abolishing oil and switching to green, it would be giving our #1 enemy insane leverage and control over us. This is another example of the lack of foresight and logic in the left due to emotions hindering their ability to plan strategically and logically. Everything about the left is about emotions, and morality, and this belief that utopia can be achieved, because the left is nihilistic and does not believe in religious values, all religions acknowledge that humans are inherently flawed and you can only adapt to that. The left believes humans are all perfect, and all imperfections are a result of environment or external factors, and they believe throwing money endlessly and implementing waves of radical change will eventually achieve utopia. This has been tried many times throughout history and has never worked. Why do you think most females lean left, whereas more males tend to lean right? This difference is more obvious in young people. And for the men that do lean left, studies have demonstrated that men who are on the left, have lower testosterone, whereas on the latter who are on the right have higher testosterone. I would also suggest the book "Leviathan and its Enemies by Samuel Francis" it's an interesting read. Lastly I'll end on the quote "If you are young, and you are not yet a liberal, you haven't got a heart. If you are an adult, and you are not yet a conservative, you haven't got a brain."

[@animal1nstinct394]

lots of right wingers are former leftists actually who left the woke cult. they got indoctrinated in school by "activist" college professors

[@Matt-fl8uy]

When the GOP refused to put a platform forward in 2020 because Trump kept changing his mind, that was one of many strong signals it's not a political party, it's a cult with a leader named Trump. They're afraid to disagree with him.

[@Gamer-is6ew]

Can't wait 😮

[@firstlast8258]

Two wings of the same dying bird

[@andrewgordon1687]

Many of the right wingers I know (mainly older ones) won’t listen and say the media has scared or brainwashed me.

[@PatrickWDunne]

I've talked to so many right-wingers who will dismiss any news article that's not from Fox, OANN, or whatever source they arbitrarily decided to trust

[@Iquey]

Same.

[@subcitizen2012]

And if they're right, I'm willing to be wrong!

[@wisehippo3072]

​@@PatrickWDunneMost right-wingers do that. This video assumes a fairy tale scenario.

[@chickensandwich8808]

Do you not also accused them of the same?

[@theoriginalblacknerd4524]

Great video. I am a Black man born in the 50s so navigating conversations with people who don't see things like I see them has been and continues to be a way of life. One technique that I have been using for decades is - When I get a reaction I didn't expect or a extreme reaction to what I said, I stop the conversation and ask the the question - What did you hear me say? - If I incorporate active listening I can determine how I will re-frame my point. I was trained under the model of it is the job of the communicator to communicate in a manner that the listener will understand the information you are trying to share. If they don't understand say it a different way.

[@Rey-it3sg]

Great technique!

[@sierra_rose444]

that’s very smart, i admire that!

[@RobbbbM-qk3ei]

Yep this is great!

[@Christian-ip3vz]

In order to talk, both sides have to be on a same plane. You can't have a legitimate conversation when one side has a fictionalized anecdotes. Eg. Rogan talking about some friend of a friend who teaches kids who want to be furries.😅

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

Right! Which is why "they" push such absurdities. They know we can't really do anything with that.

[@firstlast8258]

Two wings of the same dying bird

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@firstlast8258 r/im14andthisisdeep

[@nicklazzaro5055]

These people think theyre the ingenious ones. Its mind boggling how narcissistic they are that they cant just admit they dont know s*** ab s***.@@OscarLangleySoryu

[@bobf5360]

I think she addresses this in the "context" section.

[@baritOWN]

It's kind of tough to "agree to disagree" when one side thinks you aren't a person and that you don't deserve rights. How am I going to convince someone of anything if I first have to convince them I am human in the first place? Is a bloody uphill battle just to convince a racist I'm "one of the good ones" worth all the pain it takes to get there? I'm not convinced.

[@Mayan_88694]

There is no unity with Reich wingers.

[@Mayan_88694]

There isn’t any unity with Reich wingers

[@Mayan_88694]

There is no unity with those things

[@mytruecrimelibrary]

That's exactly why fascists always make their lies so preposterous. They don't want us to agree to disagree. They want to cause chaos and violence.

[@CortexNewsService]

I'm in a similar place as a gay man. More than one state is trying to legislatively erase parts of the LGBTQ community. Whatever individuals may be like, the party they support is actively working to harm people. You can't agree to disagree when your existence is seen as "political."

[@mike44njdevils1]

Here's my 2 cents: a majority of those "on the left" vote the way they do so American society can be more fair, accessible and livable. A non-zero percentage of the right vote the way they do "to piss off the left". I tried having these "difficult conversations" for years. My last straw was being told to "off myself" for the incredibly idiotic OPINION that all US citizens should have access to free Healthcare.

[@genericcatgirl]

Most of the party is just "Own the libs" at this point

[@wisehippo3072]

Yeah, but that's what happens when the population is exposed to decades of propaganda that only works for corporations that rule the country. Propaganda in the style of "good is bad and bad is good". Propaganda like "universal healthcare is terrible" and these people parrot it because they have no critical thinking. And then they'll call it "socialism" even though they couldn't define socialism if their life depended on it. They just know it's a scary word they've been hearing over and over. Your experience is not surprising at all. What's surprising is that the author of this video fails to understand how far down the rabbit hole a lof ot these people are.

[@justhearmeout3959]

Not sure I agree with this fully. I think part of the issue is, there's so much misinformation being peddled by the influencers of the right (not referring to influencers meaning social media, referring to actual people who have the power and platform, whatever it may be, to influence people) that a lot of voters on the right are simply scared of the America said influencers have manipulated them into believing will exist if the left gets control. My mother is a conservative. She's not one of those insane people that we like to imagine when we think of right leaning voters. She's terrified of the "alien invasion" and has said things like "the only reason I don't support universal healthcare is because it means having w surveillance state." She watches Fox news and believes the things they say. It's really that simple. That's the problem - misinformation and disinformation. The right knows how to scare people into submission, and they actively teach their followers - the ones we really need to be speaking to - that any information coming from left leaning sources is not to be trusted. It's not about pissing off the left for the majority of right leaning voters. It's about fear of the left. Which, if you think about it, is almost worse.

[@mike44njdevils1]

@justhearmeout3959 I agree with what you said. I'll point out that I said "non-zero number" of the right, not majority. When is comes to right wing (dis/mis) information, what incentive do the pundits actually have to spew their drivel? Kickbacks from the puppetmasters?

[@burningsnow9870]

​@mike44njdevils1 It's simple, corporate/private interests. A scared, distrustful society is much easier to peddle products that they claim will help them. Take guns for example, for decades the Right has been big on gun ownership to the point of unfettered access in a lot of places. And now you have us on the left starting to buy guns and ammo because of thr legitimate fear of harm against us by a growing desperate, violent right. I mean in 2 weeks we've had a guy get killed for having the vaccine by his son and a federal worker executed by a Maga republican who was his son.

[@jstall20]

Idk how this is new. Growing up in Texas I could never bring up controversial topics without getting Death threats. I get the idea that communication is important, but being told to “just talk” to a population of people that are active abusers feels a little reductive. This goes back to my time in high school in the early 2000’s. I learned to stay quiet in certain situations, but that level of active hostility didn’t come out of nowhere.

[@pjpredhomme7699]

Not trying to be a wise guy - but there are most definitely regional differences - and I would seriously forget any notion of having legitimate rational discussions while in Texas. There are values that are so deeply ingrained in the culture there - that i would definitely consider it a mountain too tall to climb. I currently live in the bible belt - have been here for 20 yrs - and I completely underestimated the significance of that - if i had it to do over again I would not have moved here - I am currently locked in here economically for a few more years but as soon as it is feasible to leave I will be. We have only one life and I do not choose to live what I have left in an episode of the twilight zone - sorry that may be a very dated reference. There is literally No way in hell I would go to places like Texas or Floriduh - and I lived in Floriduh a few different times during the 70's, 80's it is a completely different place now - I don't expect that I will ever return there again.

[@melissagibson4364]

This comment is so relevant and fair to this conversation. I was just thinking about that the other day. These are active abusers. People on both sides of the aisle are extremely worried about polarization. And yes I want to fix it!! So much! But there are some who refuse to change? And at that point what is the point of discussion? To learn more about why the far right hates people and are wrong? Are abusive and traumatized? And how loud they can yell over facts? How they can deny your humanity? This video aged a little badly. And honestly is a bit off in the beginning

[@thecoolaxolotlnova8523]

Me: im trans Right Winger: kys Leeja in this video: cant you just agree to disagree here and this is a minority but by no means a small portion of the right wing movement.

[@rhianahunter1]

Leeja - I spent 20+ years in therapy to be able to cut ties with my abusive family; I am going to practice healthy selfishness and not try to start that conversation. I will, however, have conversations with random strangers out in public. Just not any that have physically threatened me first. That is a hard limit for me.

[@robertbeste]

I understand where you are coming from. As a gay man, I very rarely talk to my family. I just don't feel welcomed or that I belong. But I do still love them and try to keep the channels open. I also try to make sure that ANY interchange they have is a positive one and I smother them with love when I can. Why? It is the double edged sword when cutting yourself off from loved ones. You cut a bad example out of your life... but you also cut a GOOD example out of theirs. I'm basically the ONLY window they have into the gay world. I'm functionally an ambassador. My hope is that the gay world isn't completely alien and they remember they have a son who loves them and treats them with respect when the hear anyone say all the gays are evil - and especially when they get to the voting booth.

[@GrumpyOldFart2]

@@robertbesteRead the OP again. I understand what you’re trying to say, but 20 years therapy? OP didn’t cut out a “bad example”, they cut ties with an ABUSIVE relationship. Op is not obligated to corrode their mental health into oblivion just to maintain contact with people who would just as soon eat your face. If your relationship works for you, that’s great. But don’t expect everyone to be that shining beacon on the hill as an example.

[@robertbeste]

@@GrumpyOldFart2 Trust me. I understand. I cut ties with two abusive relationships before I found a healthy one. One I cut off ties completely. One I have open channels with. I know it can't always be done. Nor should it always be done. But I think the IDEAL is to keep channels open when possible.

[@chickensandwich8808]

Based as hell take! One: I'm glad you have been separated from your abusers. Two I'm glad you see the value ib dialog with those who obese the a potential but have the perspective to know where to draw the line. It's admirable and appreciated. You bring hope where others might see only bleakness. I wish you the absolute best.

[@chickensandwich8808]

​@@robertbeste the world is better because you are in it. Sincerely.

[@DrBear-rk4qb]

I don't wear a trans flag pin to signal that I'm a leftist or a good person. I wear one to signal to trans people that I am (or at least am trying to be) a safe person. Also, saying it used to be more common for marriages to have mixed political views doesn't mean much when women used to have much less control over their reproduction, finances, and lives more generally. They often couldn't leave bad marriages.

[@eljoel89]

Don't worry. The conservative fascists are trying to do away with no fault divorce too, and the neoliberal conspirators will let it happen.

[@miss1of2]

There is also a huge difference between "we don't agree about how tax money should be spent" and "we don't agree over how much bodily autonomy I should have"... I could get along with the first disagreement, not the second...

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@miss1of2 Right. It used to be "what are the best detailed decisions to make so the country runs well" and now it's "civil rights must be destroyed and Trump is Jesus or else you must be destroyed too". These aren't disagreements at all. It's one side attempting to harm people who are then forced to be "the other side" in trying to defend themselves from harm.

[@BigWillProductions1]

Exactly! Idk how to sit down with a person who believes I should be oppressed for my skin and sexuality, and have a calm conversation, attempting to understand their views and make them understand mine...

[@sm1purplmurderedme583]

thats sweet. have a lgbtq pin too pls

[@harrysanchez7656]

I'm listening right now but one thought that I have had many times is why do we constantly need to learn how to talk to Republicans but I never see Republicans trying to talk to Democrats.

[@ribby9687]

as someone surrounded by them in my industry, it's not *fully* their fault as individuals. A dimension of right wing media you don't see until you're surrounded by people brainwashed by it, is that it deconstructs and reconstructs every issue in a way that makes discussing the issue in a productive way fucking IMPOSSIBLE.

[@teru797]

Yeah no see the thing is any time we try to talk to you, you want to leave the conversation. Democrats are far more likely to block someone over political opinion than the other way around. It also doesnt help big tech companies try to shut down conversation through censorship of exclusively "right wing" sources.

[@crystalfullerton3908]

​​@@teru797 I'm usually the one blocked by the conservatives. What human rights are you guys trying to protect that democrats are trying to take away, besides 2A, which we're not trying to take away?

[@ribby9687]

@@teru797 I will explain why it isn't that we disagree, it's that you are wrong. What 'you all' do is called sealioning. You ask the most basic questions over and over, that you would already know the answers to if you actually cared. And then pretend like until someone takes all the time out of their day to explain to you what you can easily seek to learn yourself, you should be able to be a disrespectful little shit and face no social consequences for it. It is not that we disagree. It is that you are wrong. You are welcome for the education.

[@MrVanWildest]

​@Mhael_Logainrepublican here. What's coming from your camp is gonna give you way worse problems than an officer profiling you for your facial. Abortion, race issues, and yadda yadda are just smoke and mirrors. Worry about the economy and border security. 2 migrations going on: central and South Americans looking for work. The other is an invasion of people that will behead you for your facial. No cliché responses, like "you're racist" or "white devil" or "you think you're superior." It is what it is. United, we stand. Divided, we fall.

[@saywa8620]

I try and try all the time. I’ve lost my whole family. They’re all conservatives, they all think I’ve been brainwashed into being gay and trans and leftist. I miss my family every day. You often challenge my perspective, Leeja, and I respect you for that. But I don’t think you understand how painful it is being told by the people you love that everything you are, none of which you can change, is evil. I’ve been told that by my own father to my tr**** face. Because he became conservative.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

You didn't get to choose your family at birth. However, you can now. Go get your share of comfort and happiness.

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@chrisdonovan8795 I literally hate this trope. Life is a lot more difficult for someone in transition and it's just a fact of reality that this makes it difficult to form new relationships let alone "family like" ones. It's easy to say things that make you feel good but it's not helping us.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

@@OscarLangleySoryu I've done it. It takes work to build strong relationships outside of family, but it is well worth it to everyone involved.

[@naeroled]

are they white?

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@chrisdonovan8795 it's not always about work at all.

[@NIA-uv8sp]

Last election, a republican pulled a gun on me during a debate over who should have the presidency, so I'm not crossing the isle anymore for them.

[@synthstatic9889]

If libs owned guns at the same rate as conservatives, Trump and melania would be upside down on the national mall. The right gets as much concessions as they do because everyone’s afraid of them.

[@scotthullinger4684]

You won't convince anybody here that a guy pulled a gun on you over a debate about who should be president.

[@justinthecode]

This sounds like the start of a villain arc

[@Jeebus-un6zz]

Ah, yes. The extreme anecdote defense. Remember the time Liam Neeson roamed around a black neighborhood with a club looking to commit a murder because a black man r*ped a close friend of his? That's you right now.

[@joshuanunn9552]

I'll take things that never happened for 100.

[@ignatiusequality9239]

Immediately after the 2016 election, I reached out to people i knew who voted for Rump, as I honestly wanted to understand why. Here are the responses I got: the Rump voters felt vengeful and victimized because they wanted to do/say racist and misogynistic things and still be treated with admiration and respect as if they'd said/did nothing wrong. Basically, they wanted the "right" to continue harming others with no consequences to them. They were very angry that society was becoming more civilized. I never heard anything tangible. It was all and only about preserving their entitlement to make life horrible for people whose existence they don't like. During these discussions, i was respectful, but gently reminded them that women and people of color are also worthy of respect - when i did, they became obstinent and the conversation was over. Basically, i learned that the only way to have a reciprocal convo with republicans, is to denounce the humanity of most people- something i just will not do.

[@NZND]

Truly insightful to the extent that I feel depressed. There's absolutely nothing new that we can learn from the conservatives. The probability of productive conservations with them is just as slim as a miracle, I'm afraid.

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

Right, and I'm gonna guess that if you were even able to get that far with them in the first place, you're the "right" demographics to do so. Imagine _being_ that trans woman of colour or whomever minority and attempting that conversation-? It's not a thing that can happen.

[@nicklazzaro5055]

This is SPOT ON! To your point, i have a neighbor whos a trump person and ive never made my political affiliation known to them. These people basically just walk up and say racist and bigoted things and think because i too am white, this will be my opinion also..... Its so wild how open they are with such shameful things. I just stared at him to make him feel as uncomfortable as possible. But going back to what you said, your first point is really the sweet spot. They want to be horrible humans but still garner everyones respect and be a pillar in the community. Just gross humans.

[@rayzhang3425]

Thanks for trying

[@Lunch_Meat]

Funny thing is while the trump supporters I talked to sounded like they were saying the same things, as soon as I learned to listen more I found out that I was still framing their beliefs in my head instead of actually listening to them. That "racist" uncle of mine doesn't actually hate other races, he DOES have black and brown friends from work, but he doesn't see systemic issues because he is working the same job and has the same life as his POC friends/coworkers. He can't wrap his head around the ideas I presented because he doesn't ever see evidence of them in his day to day life. I had to stop seeing his arguments and rejections as a proof of his racism and instead see them as well as I could through his eyes before I could develop a method for presenting the evidence in a way that his POC coworkers and friends could agree with.

[@matthewharry2803]

It's exhausting thinking it's up to the left to make things better, while the right doesn't have to make any effort

[@tankiegirl]

If you believe you are in the moral right, you have the moral responsibility to make the effort

[@Lunch_Meat]

If you are a hostage in a hostage situation, it's up to you to talk your captors down. Is that how it should be? No. Is that how it is? Yes

[@skycryztals]

​@@tankiegirlThat's just it tho. You can't TEACH morals, they must be LEARNED. By that I mean, you can't explain to someone a moral dilemma, that they disagree with you on, and they change face at the end of the conversation. Hardship, real experience and the will to love are the only way through this selfish exterior.

[@skycryztals]

Arguably why some Christians have this false sense of moral superiority. They didn't wade through the same moral dilemmas and ideological trauma of actually learning these virtues first hand. It was all just.. explained to them and never LEARNED.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Does the right not also think it's exhausting?

[@MikeLikesChannel]

The problem is… I want healthcare as a birthright for my daughters and abortion as a right through viability. And the other side thinks I should be dead for thinking that. There’s no getting through that.

[@petervizzini4006]

Banning abortion is no more different than banning slavery. You are not oppressed because of a growing dislike for abortion

[@07Flash11MRC]

"a right through viability": What do you mean by that?

[@MikeLikesChannel]

@@07Flash11MRC Abortion legal through 22 weeks. The fetal ultrasound is at 18-20 weeks. A woman can make her decision then. Nobody should have to raise a baby with its brain growing out of its skull if they don’t want that.

[@dragonbeardable]

Since when do repubs want the death sentence for abortion??

[@pjpredhomme7699]

​@@07Flash11MRC I think he means that he believes his daughters should have the ability to determine what happens to their body. you know one of those good old "conservative" values. What I find most bemusing is that most of these right to lifers - do not even know any of the history of their so called "deeply held beliefs" because folks it is a provable fact that most people who call themselves christians - could not care less about abortion until 1980 - it was cultivated as a wedge issue to get southern christians - to go against their own - Jimmy Carter - who was a very sincere evangelical christian. and it coincided with a desire to cultivate midwest catholics - to the republican party - who had been firmly democrat. It is just a tool that was ginned up by advertising executives to sway perception from one side to another - in the strictest sense it was legitimately a PSY- OP. And if you consider how it has radicalized people to violence over something that is really none of their business - that makes a great deal more sense.

[@occupationallystrong1606]

There are people that I have cut out of my life from politics. It has made my life better.

[@ausername8699]

If you cut people out of your life solely because of political disagreements, it will only vindicate their views and make them associate with more extreme crowds. You might have inadvertently created another Proud Boy or III%er because your views aren't being expressed in their space.

[@ajpend]

Boom.

[@jimmythebold589]

same. i won't make friends with a maga. i need to stop talking to them on twitter. today i had a sterling example why. dude accused me of having tds, then claimed i really loved trump. he said this all in a ONE THOUSAND WORD comment. yeah, he has a blue check. he called me 'lonely', when he only has 500 followers. lol

[@PoliticalWeekly]

Do these include family?

[@ausername8699]

I think when dealing with family it makes things worse in the long run. If you sever your ties with family over politics, you really need to re-evaluate how you build your relationships. If the basic foundation is comparing your politics to others, you're not gonna have an ability to make anyone change their mind, and end up vindicating the other side in the process.

[@brits.4581]

I have tried talking with so many people who are republican, trumpers, etc., with nothing but anger and a general sense of sadness for the state of the country. I keep as level headed as possible and all I get is a brick wall from anyone but my father. I understand that talking to both sides is needed, but when the other half doesn’t listen or gets aggressive, that’s not on us.

[@ajpend]

Boom.

[@chrismcnuggett]

Trust me as a moderate myself it’s both sides not just the right. Some of the most toxic conversations I’ve ever had came from lefties not conservatives

[@ajpend]

@@chrismcnuggett I minimally (very rarely) have these experiences when having real socio-political conversations with people identifying as 'leftist'. When having the same or similar conversations with people identifying as conservative or Republican, it is well-more than 50% of the time that they go "toxic".

[@HalfBackCrack]

​@@chrismcnuggettsounds like a you problem, Bud.

[@Pit_Wizard]

​@@chrismcnuggettare you talking to "leftists" or "Twitter weirdos"? Those people don't speak for us.

[@johnquiett1085]

I can get along with some Republicans. I thought John McCain was tolerable if wrong on nearly every topic, as an example. However, when I tried to tell my uncle that I understood why guns would never go away, even if that's what I would prefer, I was subjected to a 40 comment thread on Facebook and told I was R-word-ed and to stupid to be allowed to vote, I was 37 at the time. When I told a different uncle he shouldn't kick his gay son out of his house I was told I was a problem for supporting his gay kid. So, I've tried talking to them. Most Republicans I know seem beyond help though.

[@tracey9888]

Yeah my dad tried beating my chest in because he smelled the queer lol I was like 10 and that lead me to some far right shit but getting a talking to from the left did not fix me seeing that what i was saying just made more people miserable did. You can't fix having no empathy.

[@abandonedfragmentofhope5415]

That’s what watching right wing news media has done to them. You need to help them find a new news outlet for them to consume. But not one that is left wing to them. Try something more centrist and work from there.

[@imbecilicGenius-hn3jo]

So you talked to the extreme side of the aisle. Thats similar to them only talking to the blue haired feminists and making thier whole opinion of feminism based on that.

[@PoliticalWeekly]

Most republicans are disaffected whites that are on the verge on being overwhelmed demographically. If I were them, I’d be pissed too. What do you have to complain about?

[@johnirvine9942]

I’m Conservative I’m sorry to hear that, the unfortunate reality is both sides are very unwilling to have conversations at the moment, the solution starts with unconditional empathy, and a willingness to listen to the other side. You need to tell your uncle that he’s being a terrible person, not just that you disagree with his political opinions.

[@micah4242]

I have been bombarded with such advice for 8 years, only to be verbally abused. Why doesn’t anyone teach the hate speech perpetrators to be civil?

[@PBthesquirrel]

As Leeja says, there is a lot of anger on both sides. Also, this kind of conversation is a skill to hone in -- you probably won't do it perfectly the first time, or the second or third. I would say it may be a good idea to try this kind of conversation with people who are closer toward the middle. Keep reminding them and yourself that you are on the same side (you are both Americans who care about their country). This is the ultimate "treat people how you want to be treated" test. I hope this helps

[@jasperchristie133]

That’s actually the goal of talking to them, right? to teach them to be civil? I agree it’s dangerous and not something everyone can afford to do in every situation, so I’m not gonna tell you to do it, but it sounds like we agree that someone needs to do it

[@oil-robin]

I agree with many of these points, but as a trans person, trying to confront those with right wing beliefs always has a chance of turning into direct violence against me, and I do not believe that it is my duty to risk my life to try and change a few minds. Not saying that people shouldn't, just that not everyone can engage with people in this way without posing an extreme risk to their personal safety.

[@Nick_CF]

This is the type of stuff that really annoys me that is not thought of in this topic. People get murdered for this type of stuff and we are asking you to put yourself in that position. It's completely unreasonable, unfair, and more importantly, as you said...dangerous.

[@feddyvonwigglestein3481]

That's solely because you've been CONVINCED that's the case. It's not rooted in reality, only in corporate propaganda.

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@feddyvonwigglestein3481 winner of the ignorant af comment award right here

[@that__girl_from]

💯 as a black trans woman, I was walking into a club, and this guy started yelling he wished he could unload a clip into me. So my fear is how can I tell the ones that just want to argue and the ones that want to unload a clip into me.

[@Софија-крафт]

​@@that__girl_fromlmfao that didn't happen nice fanfic tho

[@SpoopySquid]

Thanks but as a trans person I'd rather not play Hate Crime Roulette with people who support my eradication.

[@winnieblurre8760]

Same! I'm in Florida. I don't even want my dad wearing an ally shirt right now because of how dangerous and violent people have become down here over LGBTQ+ rights. I'm scared to death something will happen to him. Especially with the election season coming up. 😢 We just had several major shootings in three days in our town. It's scary.

[@jgray2718]

Yeah, you gotta consider your safety. I was in a discussion group specifically dedicated to talking to people of the opposite political persuasion. This group was located in Kansas, so you might be able to guess what the majority affiliation was. My friend is gay and when someone on the right said "What's the worst that can happen?" his response was "Matthew Shepherd" and none of them knew what he was talking about. Sometimes you just have to hang back and let us straight white cis men take the fire first. They'll only scream at me.

[@winnieblurre8760]

@jgray2718 I really have to agree on this one. Before the last presidency, I would've been more open to talking. Now, safety first.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Wanna take a guess as to how black people ended segregation?

[@drakeanderson5770]

I'm glad all the comments I've seen seem to be in agreement that you can't just have a conversation with the people who want you dead. This liberal notion that you can just talk fascists out of their bigotry is absurd, and it only works to normalize their hateful ideas. As a recently out trans person in a red state, even when talking with my supportive members of the family I get told to just stop worrying about things I can't control. I understand talking mental health breaks from the news and from doom scrolling but you can't ignore the problem of fascism. Like with the election of Trump, it's always too outlandish to actually happen until it finally does, and then it's too late. Project 2025 is something to be worried about. It's disappointing that Leeja seems to gloss over the fact that we aren't arguing tax policy, these aren't differences in how we want to move the country forward. The disagreements are whether or not we should cut funding to starving school children, or whether or not doctors can legally refuse medical service to trans people. This stuff matters and it has real consequences.

[@cultural_marxism_fan]

as a queer person i hear u but at the same time its very tiring to debate my existence every time i talk to right wingers even so called moderates have tried justify transphobia to me and its very tiresome

[@ajpend]

Boom.

[@Jeebus-un6zz]

What is a "so called" moderate? Where exactly do you imagine the Overton Window to rest? People are skeptical about transgenderism because people on the left cram their framing of the issue down everyone's throats as if this phenomena is well understood and irrefutable when actually the body of knowledge surrounding the issue is impressive but more open to interpretation than LGBTQ people insist. The science is the science, and the cultural implications are for people to decide based upon the handful of observations we can make about this group of people- that's what science is. To be clear, I strongly believe the best outcome is treating people how they want to be treated as there's no harm in treating a trans woman as you would a cis woman. The division on this issue is that it then follows that all people should participate in a collective delusion where we actually believe cis and trans women to be exactly the same thing, which they are not, and whether the differences matter does warrant some debate- or at least, if you're engaging in good faith, you should be able to see why some people feel there's room for debate and that it's not because they're psychos who want to take away all LGBTQ rights. Being moderate means being an adult- hearing out both sides completely and being able to argue both sides effectively before coming to your own conclusions. Yes, this is very 'tiresome.' If you're not down with that, check out of politics. This is what you're signing up for by performing your civic duty, and if you can't stomach it, let others do it in your stead.

[@ajpend]

To be clear, I strongly believe the best outcome is treating people how they want to be treated as there's no harm in treating a trans woman as you would a cis woman.

[@johnirvine9942]

I’m a moderate would you care to explain to me how they justify transphobia.

[@diamondmx3076]

​@@Jeebus-un6zzright wing taking points. Noone thinks trans and cis women are "exactly the same" so why would you lie about that.

[@bakedAK85]

I engage in conversations almost soley with conservative Republicans at my workplace. It's extremely hard to get my point across when I am being verbally overwhelmed by multiple people intergecting themselves into my personal conversation, spouting conspiracy theories, and racist and bigoted sentiment. I merly asked one of my coworkers if he had heard about the woman who was murdered in California because she flew a pride flag outside of her store. His reply?"Good! Maybe that'll teach 'em lesson!". Or another coworker explaining how he could solve the homless encampment "problem" with a single A-10 strafing run. Or yet another coworker lamenting that it was still illegal to kill "Demon-craps.". How do I communicate with people who LITERALLY want to kill me?

[@rushrush1209]

You don't communicate with people like that. Those co-workers are just sick people who need professional help. Some conservatives don't believe in that degree of hatred and would listen, but you have to vet very carefully. Talking to the wrong conservative could be very dangerous.

[@elisebrown5157]

Leeja, could you find one of those open minded Republicans you say exist and actually have a debate with them that follows these rules on your channel? I'd love to see examples of an actual conversation using actual issues that divide the parties and see if these techniques are effective at either helping us understand right wing viewpoints, finding common ground, or helping the republican understand left wing viewpoints. I gotta say that I agree with most of the comments I've read that it seems like leftists are always being told to communicate, cooperate, and show empathy to people who desire to do none of that with us. Like debating with cannibals over what to have for dinner, as they say. And it's no longer just about what foreign policy seems best or what tax structures we should adopt - it's over whether certain groups should have basic human rights!

[@chrisdonovan8795]

Her video was theoretical. At one point she says that you shouldn't expect to change their mind, yet that's the whole point. We don't have to be confrontational. Live your best life. Help your friends, and let these MAGA Republicans live their lives of failure.

[@razzbazle1582]

Amen!!

[@ezra7088]

I don't think we should compromise on issues surrounding equality. I don't think talking with a republican politician is going to be remotely helpful. And I don't think debating any republican is going to be helpful. But I do think sharing your perspectives with a republican, and hearing theirs, is healthy. If they spew bigotry at you, leave. We see so much of politicians, and tweets, and crazy right wing nutters in videos tho. Most people aren't nearly that connected to politics, or extreme. Try to talk to one of them

[@iHeartPiMore]

I have listened and explained respectfully multiple times, and I get scolded by my bigoted family members for my anti-bigoted beliefs. I stand up to them respectfully and even explain every time they say something bigoted, and they make a huge scene. These people are often long gone.

[@Clairebear173]

In my opinion, this is a huge part of the problem. I feel that there aren’t any open minded leftists willing to have a respectful debate with and the left feels there are no open minded republicans to respectfully debate. I also believe I have a really good grasp of the lefts arguments for most of the major topics and that they have no understanding of what I believe or why. I’m sure you feel the same way but in reverse but this has led to us no longer communicating at all. I continue to try and talk with the left but if you read a lot of comments below us righties are called awful names and lumped into some horrible accusations without ever getting a chance. I’m always up for a debate though, it’s the only way to find common ground.

[@ohthelushlife]

How can you talk to peopler who's entire identity and reality is shaped by one reality-detached narcissist? They are a literal, not metaphorical, cult at this point.

[@acegikm]

I'm not trying to insult them when I say they're braindead and heartless cult members. it's not hyperbolic; it's what I believe about them. They believe what they want to believe, what makes them feel superior.

[@phorn100]

You mean the cult of hateful feminitism, transgender madness, LGBT Insanity and the list goes on

[@zolten3947]

Trump voter. We don't think about Trump all day every day after voting for him, dude. I vote Trump every four or so years and then I go about the rest of my day. It's not that deep, chillax. And then you'll probably wonder a few weeks from now why we think leftists value emotion over logic. You've literally convinced yourself into thinking that Trump voters are bad people because Trump himself says dumb, impulsive stuff that never translates into actual policy. We vote Trump because we don't want low quality Democrat candidates telling us that we're "deplorables" when in reality, many of us vote Trump because we genuinely think Democrats, especially in 2016 and 2020, have weak policies. No, we're not racist just because we don't want Clinton or Biden in office. Get better candidates who don't think literal men should be competing against women in sports and maybe, just maybe, you'll change our minds.

[@dennisbarker5986]

I'm a marine corps vet that lives in a small Colorado town, I struggle alot lately from isolation, people see my eagle globe and anchor on my hat and instantly think I'm a Trump supporter. When you are out numbered by the extremists you have to isolate for your own safety, I'm a disabled vet I can't just up and move and this area was really nice before every day life political

[@subcitizen2012]

Stay safe brother. At least you've got the camouflage if things do hit the fan.

[@feddyvonwigglestein3481]

So your problem is that your side thinks that you're a Trump supporter because of a hat insignia. And your response is to...call the right extremists. lol.

[@xDCAxNexus]

Mr. Barker, I am sorry but I have succumbed to that bias a lot. I've interacted with (mostly younger, enlisted, male) Marines on quite a few occasions over the last half-decade and it's usually been a pretty sickening experience, especially if anything political comes up (with a couple notable exceptions.) Not to mention the people I know who have been sexually harassed or assaulted by (often drunk and underage) male Marines. I've even stayed away from any Marine NCOs after some barfight they had with bikers in Texas last year since it indicated to me a lack of restraint or consideration for the lives of one another (alongside the stories of Marines dying from dehydration or insane overwork in basic.) Marines have always given me the indication that, unlike the other branches, they have stubbornly refused to shed many of their cultish or otherwise abusive aspects (not to mention the sheer amount of horrible shit the female Marines are put through.) I am aware these are a limited pool of anecdotal experiences, but they do weigh on my mind whenever I see a Marine. You are probably a fine person, and don't deserve to be painted with this brush. I am not sure if there is anything that can be done without some level of participation in community outreach, which can be difficult depending on your age, or some other activities that force contact between you and the rest of your local community so you can meet people and show them the kind of person you are. I hope you will be able to find a way to achieve that.

[@TheRabble1977]

Womp womp

[@whatmeworrynotoday]

As a person who leans center left. I wish I was your neighbor. You would have zero problems. I wish you the best. If I could do more. I would.

[@davidstorrs]

"We are more divided than anytime in history." I dunno, there was this one time in the early 1860s that I think things were worse. As to not talking to Republicans... After Trump was elected, I made a concerted effort to reach outside my bubble. - I went to various Reddit forums and respectfully explained that I was trying to reach out and learn more about the other side. I got banned immediately. - I saw a car parked in my lot with Trump tags all over it, so I left a note explaining what I was doing with my number (a burner number, not my actual number). I managed to talk to the woman for about 20 minutes before she realized what was going on and asked me "Do you hate Trump?" I paused and said "I disagree with him on a lot of things but I wouldn't say 'hate'." She immediately went bananas and started telling me what a horrible person I was and so on. - Then there's random Republicans / other conservates that I've bumped into on KZbin. A majority of them can't string a coherent sentence together and usually can't do it without an ad hominem. Okay, that's KZbin. - Then there's Quora, where I have only met one conservative who could actually defend their position with evidence, the rest simply getting frustrated and either insulting me, ghosting me, or insulting me and then ghosting me. I got into an excellent discussion about gun control with that person, except as soon as I checked their sources I found that one of their primary pieces of evidence was a study claiming that there were over 300,000 lives saved by guns every year...of course, the 'data' for this study was all self-reported so I didn't feel a lot of need to continue the search. Long story short, I've tried talking to conservatives in general and Republicans in particular. It's not useful.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

I suggest using that time to help people who matter to the future.

[@johnmguzman7491]

Mr. David Storrs, I applaud your efforts to reach out. Have you googled the national group Braver Angels? They are doing Is what Leeja Miller suggests and bringing people from both sides to respectful talk listen to one another. I think you'd be perfect for BA-Braver Angels

[@car_tar3882]

@@chrisdonovan8795she did reach out to people who matter. All people matter. Once again the party of tolerance shows their true colors.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

@@car_tar3882 Being tolerant might involve turning the other cheek, but cheeks are a limited resource. Unlimited tolerance doesn't exist.

[@the3pista1c]

I find people are usually unwilling to have a calm, rational discussion about whether they have the right to exist

[@SpoopySquid]

But if we're polite to the people marching us into the camps, maybe they'll feel a little guilty about it! /s

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Sounds like it's time to learn how.

[@bothi00]

Ya I won't lie this is an unusually idealistic and immaterial video for leeja to make. I understand where she's coming from and hoping for, but there's so much missing from her assumptions that I frankly don't see the value in any of it. Like, why is always the liberals that must 'reach across'? And, why is it that they must reach across to conservatives rather than leftists ? On some points, she seems all too aware of the threat and danger posed by the GOP and its base. And here she seems not to? If we acknowledge that one side genuinely wants to exterminate LGBT people and expel most POCs, how tf are we meant to, or more importantly should, try to just talk to them?

[@downsjmmyjones101]

@@bothi00 If liberals aren't going to convince conservatives that there are better ways to do things, then who will?

[@bothi00]

@@downsjmmyjones101 leftists have a better track record of convincing conservatives given that they share many of the same critiques of our current order, which is a liberal one

[@tylerbonn6883]

As a leftist, I can agree to disagree on a decent amount without dehumanizing the person. You think we should have closed borders? Okay. You think universal healthcare won't work? Okay. You're pro life? Okay. You're a black conservative? Okay. I used to be very good at open dialogue with conservatives. What happened? My best friend, whom although leaning a bit more to the right than me, we never fought over differing beliefs, went down the Daily Wire and Alex Jones rabbit holes in response to seeing trans people getting more media attention. My oldest friend in the world is trans, and although it took me a while to understand the nuances of gender and learn to respect different identities, my desire to protect him and my other trans friends changed my views and I learned a lot in the process. This former friend WOULD NOT recognize non binary identities, actively refused to learn pronouns, and refused to not believe that being transgender is a mental illness. As time went on, he went deeper and deeper down the Alex Jones rabbit hole, and developed a fear of weaponized empathy, so any attempt to help him emphasize with trans people was met with a firm "that doesn't work on me." That coupled with frequently comparing trans people to pedophiles, I couldn't deal with it anymore, and I cut him out of my life entirely, and just after I was the best man at his wedding. I listened to him and his wife spew out enough logical fallacies and "opinions" to have an idea for why conservatives don't like trans people, "trans ideology", "wokeness", all of it. So because of those reasons, I refuse to agree to disagree on anything LGBTQ related with conservatives again. Now if there is a way to make conservatives happy while also ensuring LGBTQ people have all their rights in tact, I'm all ears, but I'm also incredibly sceptical and I'm not mentally ready to have the conversations necessary to make that happen, not yet at least.

[@danbev8542]

Such a sad story. I’m sorry - it’s a loss, but I believe you did the right thing. Perhaps it falls under Leeja’s #1- determine if it’s worth it.

[@billymitchell655]

There is no such thing as trans people

[@cfri9332]

"Your empathy doesn't work on me!" is a great deal of the problem. In fact, it's most of the divide. When people profit off of a lack of empathy, they aren't going to want to give that up.

[@scotthullinger4684]

I'm gay - and I entirely reject the Leftist political view regarding all LGBT politics. I'm as positively conservative and sensible as can be ... and those two ALWAYS go together - conservative and sensible. Nobody will ever prove to me or convince me that conservative politics don't benefit the nation at large, no will anyone prove to me that typical politics of the Democrats benefit the nation at large. Just open your eyes, and examine the differences between the Trump administration and the Biden administration. Idiot Biden loses all across the board.

[@Virtuous_Rogue]

A conservative argument for lgbtq rights is that the government has no place getting involved in personal and intimate matters. As for how to disarm moral police ideas, you can say LGBT people have been victimized enough over the past few centuries that if it wasn't genuine they wouldn't exist.

[@myshittyaccount4810]

Me being a transgender woman living in a conservative Christian household

[@PatrickWDunne]

The Bible literally doesn't say anything about being trans though. I don't know how Christians convinced themselves otherwise. The most they have is Deuteronomy 22:5, which is about cross-dressing and only applies to the Israelites. Besides, so many Christians like to say that the Old Testament doesn't matter anymore, so there's that.

[@Phil9874]

@@PatrickWDunne social conditioning essentially. Christianity in much of america has become heavily political.

[@subcitizen2012]

You're the 21st century Rambo.

[@crazytuffandco.]

​@@Phil9874True but also has Christianity and religion in general ever not been political?

[@rudetuesday]

Do whatever you need to do to be as safe as possible. Self-defense is good for you.

[@gerbilmanjeremy]

I work in a public facing job as an open Transwoman with an education in political theory, and so I'm often conversing with folks who I'd not normally converse with, and one of my most recent conversations was with a trump era anti-vaxxer (in my experience these are the anti-vaxxers who have a hope of being talked to. I'm also a type 1 diabetic, and have gotten each of my COVID vaccines, and I use the personal story element a lot. I open with the "Well, diseases like this aren't always dangerous to the everyday joe, but in my and my little sister's case, getting sick can easily be a death sentence, and then I move to facts (I often find people are disarmed by the "This is a deadly threat" angle) such as the fact that the reason we got a vaccine so fast is due to SARS research, as well as new understandings of vaccine production. this was about 4 weeks ago, wednesday when I went into work the lady I talked with came back and showed off her arm bandage. It was really satisfying to see that work.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

I don't think it's generally a good use of time, but it's good to hear.

[@eonstar]

@@chrisdonovan8795 They have made the world a better place, don't talk down to them doing so

[@squirrelvert]

Since roughly the 1990s, there are been countless millions of SARS-type viruses floating around in the world. In fact, if you live in a developing country, there's a very high chance that you have a chronic respiratory viral illness. COVID wasn't / anything special. Sad (especially for people living in developing countries) but true.

[@Lucident1]

To quote Abby from the Philosophy tube channel, "all fascists have to do to make the "left" happy is to stop being Fascist. What would make the Fascists happy is for the left to stop existing!" How do you talk to someone like that?

[@bothi00]

Perfectly said. Despite it coming from a literal Nazi, the friend/enemy distinction and how the left and right use is a very very useful framework for analysis on those points

[@hkandm4s23]

🤦‍♀️

[@caffetiel]

Ultima ratio regum

[@rainbowdragon1872]

Holy christ ive nevet seen it likee that

[@downsjmmyjones101]

By showing them that the thing they're afraid of is untrue.

[@dohboi75]

I have no obligation to hear any argument about abortion when that argument is a religious based one.

[@PatrickWDunne]

Numbers 5:11-31 literally gives instructions on how to perform an abortion

[@timpipkins5190]

Amen

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

Aaaaand there are literally no arguments against abortion rights that aren't religious so wtf are we supposed to do lol You can't argue with "God wants this". Unless you can somehow convince them you know God better than their lunatic priest or whoever filled their head with the nonsense to begin with and good luck with that, if that were an option they wouldn't be in a cult in the first place.

[@subcitizen2012]

Amen! Lol

[@ausername8699]

Do you think people that have had significant religious experiences in their life that led them to those beliefs aren't worth listening to? I've personally had a few in my life. It is fundamentally different to feel the presence of God, than a normal emotional response to anyone else's presence. It's an otherworldly euphoria, and unmatched power, that no drug or other substance is capable of giving. Having people that have felt the exact same thing, some once being nonbelievers, kind of weakens the argument of, "God's not real, so no need to address the religious argument."

[@shingshongshamalama]

Stop compromising with people who resolutely refuse to compromise with you and whose ideology revolves around removing your right to exist.

[@splendidcolors]

I don't think the burden of dialogue should fall on the people who are being targeted the most specifically. That is why groups like Showing Up for Racial Justice exist, so that people with white privilege who haven't been targeted can be the ones having these conversations. We can use that privilege to open doors with local government as well--our local electeds are much more willing to meet with us than they are with our accountability partners who have asked us for support after being brushed off.

[@artemis3120]

This isn't compromising, but instead the goal is to de-radicalize people out of the right-wing pipeline. It's to show conservatives we aren't some scary "Other" that needs to be eradicated. For sure, this approach isn't for everyone, and should only be used by people trained and committed.

[@MagicBus-ct7fe]

The myth of white privilege. Ok Mr doors can y open a door explaining the myth of racism in America ​@@splendidcolors

[@zugetzuzu]

@@artemis3120 "It's to show conservatives we aren't some scary "Other" that needs to be eradicated." I would agree with you, however after 10+ years of trying to humanize marginalized people, all we've managed to do is gain minor support from centrists while the conservatives kept their view of "Gays and blacks are wrong and deserve to be killed because my God says it's wrong". I hate that people bring up talking points like Leeja does, because we've tried this for multiple decades and it rarely improves amongst those we need to talk to the most. It helped massively with certain centrists pockets, usually center left people, but just look at how centrists are now repeating the exact same homophobic arguments against trans people and you see that there is fundamentally nothing we can do so long as rich people want to make someone their scapegoat. Same thing with centrists regarding Gaza as well, as many of them support Israels bombing and shit. We have tried, I have tried, on a human level and an intellectual level for decades but no matter what it hasn't gotten better in the groups that we've tried to talk to the most. At some point people will give up, which I already have. You cannot de-radicalize some people. Some you may, but if it requires us 1000 hours to de-radicalize a singular, lets say Trump supporter, then that time is better spent elsewhere, especially amongst centrists so that our human and constitutional right aren't revoked

[@ThomasMullaly-do9lz]

Who would win in a civil war?

[@NamedMichael]

I do understand, and in some cases I agree. But we’re talking about a party who overwhelmingly still support gun rights over the safety of children. Sandy Hook caused an INCREASE in gun purchases and absolutely nothing was done to prevent another shooting.

[@fleurishadvisors232]

As someone who grew up around these types of Repubs I ask: How to you have a conversation with someone who has their fingers in their ears going ' la la la la I can't hear you'? It's not that I don't try it's that they're convinced they are in the right and don't want to hear anything I have to say, let alone try to empathize with what my life experience in their ideal world would look like. I'm open to suggestions but so far it seems more important for the MAGA crowd to feel vindicated and righteous than to cooperate with the perceived enemy. All the while the elites are laughing in their ivory towers enjoying watching the show.

[@TheOmegaXicor]

I ask a counter point: How do you know every republican you meet is either deranged or sane (MAGA or not) unless you try to talk to them calmly and non-judgementally and then learn if they are completely lost, ignore them and walk away, if there is hope then you can help them to understand just how lost they are.

[@GustavoNinhio]

that's the literal billion dollar question. only thing that comes to my mind is the cheney's changing their mind when things hit too close to home. most def is a personal level approach, still tricky.

[@codyknight6720]

If someone hangs out with Nazi’s and supports them for office, that’s pretty much a Nazi right? It doesn’t matter if some republicans ‘aren’t maga’ because in the end, they’re voting to monsters in. WHY they’re voting them in doesn’t matter much; what does is that they clearly can excuse hate and harmful intentions of it gets them what THEY want 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@tsarzamancorpdna]

@@TheOmegaXicor maybe because the vast majority believe that jan 6th was justified, believe in qanon and generally cheer when some rightwinger unalives gay ppl in a mass shuuting (gotta skirt yt rules replace u with o) diplomacy isnt on the table with american conservatives

[@Javaman21011]

​@@TheOmegaXicorbecause they still voted for him again in 2020 despite everything bad he did and they're currently voting for him in primaries after all the indictments and Jan 6 evidence.

[@sigmascrub]

As someone who crawled out of the alt-right pipeline, I don't think there is a way to change people's minds. I lost friends, chased away the love of my life, and threw away good academic and career opportunities because of the ideology. What finally got me started on the path away was the White Nationalists going mask off around late 2018 and all the people who said "the only colors that matter are red, white, and blue" turned out to be full of it. That being said, it's important to talk and communicate. It takes velvety soft kid gloves and the patience of a saint, but it's important work. Fascism (and that's exactly what it is) feeds on insecurity and isolation. Cutting ties and tearing them down only helps the broader cause.

[@ringsystemmusic]

it took me a solid five minutes of scrolling to find somebody that wasn’t absolutely disgusted by the idea of talking to the other side, goddamn. As a former right wing whacko myself this is probably the most correct comment I’ve yet seen, as it mirrors my own deconversion process.

[@flaminhotfuckingcheetos2536]

@@ringsystemmusicexactly bro I’m over here thinking just do it but ig it’s prolly cus I’m not gay or trans or sum

[@Lunch_Meat]

The irony of course being that you DID change your mind when presented with the right info

[@michaeladkins6]

@@flaminhotfuckingcheetos2536 As some one who is gay and being called groomer every time, Im tired of that. Im guessing no one on the reich is doing a video like this.

[@jickles_181]

Well said

[@MiakaKirino]

I have spent literal decades TRYING to talk to my Republican parents, but they WILL NOT LISTEN. They just shut it down. I try to talk to my brother who still lives with my parents, and he won't listen either. My dad has told me to my face that the ACA is bad because it's expensive for my (able-bodied) brothers in the middle. Apparently he forgot that he has two disabled kids (me, his eldest, and my youngest brother) for whom the ACA is literally life-altering. Without it I'd be uninsurable due to my cardiac birth defect. I'm disabled and queer, so the right (by ideology) wants me dead. They've killed their empathy. I'm not sure why, but I know they have. My mom used to HAVE empathy, she's the one I learned it from... it's gone now.

[@cpehansen21]

The biggest problem I've got with this, is it isn't a discussion between two arguing parties. Republicans and Democrats aren't getting along because one thinks there should be lower taxes, or other rational arguments. The issue is that one side is a fascistic, authoritarian, theocratic movement whose basis of existence is, broadly speaking, not based in reality. So the fear and anger, at least from me, isn't coming from "my Republican friends and I just can't decide on whether we think Supreme Court justices should have lifetime appointments, and all we have to do is educate each other about the other side to find common ground". It's coming from "there is a movement in this country whose sole intention is to destroy democracy, install their guy as a dictator, and enforce extreme laws that make The Handmaids Tale look like an episode of Euphoria". So how do we reconcile when one side is an existential threat (and a violent one) to our country. And, for what it's worth, conservatives don't want Civil War. They have no interest in setting up an alternative government or anything like that. What they mean when they say Civil War is "I'm just waiting for an excuse to kill anyone who doesn't agree with me"

[@神の人-f2k]

Holy shit mate listen to yourself from the third person. You do know how radical you sound? You sound no better than a Qanon gay agenda conspiracy theorist saying that. No better at all.

[@RR-tm9ku]

Bingo. These aren't your Bush-era Republicans anymore. If you still support the Republican party in 2024, you're cosigning right-wing extremism.

[@Anon54387]

Utter bee ess. The side you say is authoritarian is the one that wants smaller, less powerful, less intrusive government. What an irony. The left, OTOH, does want to tell others how to live down to what kind of car to drive, what kind of stove to have, even what kind of light bulbs we use. If regulating what kind of light bulbs to use isn't big government I don't know what is, think of it, even something as persnickety as a light bulb they are worrying about. No less critical is that they want to take more of the money you earn. Our freedom hinges on being able to keep what we earn. Economic freedom is the most important freedom of all, without it all the other freedoms don't matter like freedom of speech, or at least don't matter as much.

[@MikeLikesChannel]

One of the rare times I disagree with Leeja. Most of them are not coming from any rational headspace. Many are delusional followers of a religion, and think I should be shot dead if I think abortion and healthcare should be a birthright. *There’s no middle ground for them to even meet me on*

[@petervizzini4006]

Says the side obsessed with children and can't define what is a woman

[@mallory7198]

It’s hard to have these sort of conversations when the other side is literally living in an alternate reality. I think it’s possible to reason with people whose being is not entirely entrenched in “owning the libs” or religious extremism, but the other side has to be willing to engage in the conversation as well. To be quite frank, I’m sick of having to “take the high road” all of the time. It’s like a toxic relationship. It doesn’t work when only one person is putting in the effort to engage the other in an understanding way. It’s exhausting. I don’t think the online space is the correct setting to have these conversations. People don’t interact with each other like humans online. I’m guilty of this for sure. But it’s so difficult when certain “ideologies” are being spread online and there’s no effective way to combat them and reach out to those who have been influenced by them. I’m tired.

[@KingJT80]

thats the whole thing. you cant have any real conversation with a person if they think the 2020 election was fake and the deep state runs pizza shops as fronts for sex trafficking. im not gonna hash out what taxes should be with someone who doesnt even live in reality.

[@Wisteriu]

It is important to pick your battles. I see a lot of people in this comment section pointing to the most extreme maga types and using that as an example for why we should disengage from all conservatives. It should be pretty obvious that this is stereotyping, and painting one group as solely its most extreme elements. This would be no different from blaming all Jewish and Arabic people for what is happening in Gaza, and we should know better. You don't have to try to convince a die-hard cultist, you can also talk to people who merely have a lean, and are not so passionate, not so far down the rabbit hole. You don't have to try to save everyone. This is so plainly obvious to me that I feel like there is a great deal of trolling happening in this comment section, by people that just want to see bloodshed. Again, we should know better, we're not the believers in convenience, ignorance and intolerance.

[@Matthew-zn3zm]

It's like if the south of Norway was run by the Taliban. The Norwegians would relearn the value of being Vikings.

[@Matthew-zn3zm]

​@@Wisteriuyou speak like the "most extreme" is the minority... It isn't. The majority are the extreme.

[@Wisteriu]

@@Matthew-zn3zm I would argue it's not, it's just a majority of the primary-voting republicans, the highly motivated ones. There's always a large cohort of less motivated, less extremist, more disenfranchised voters. They can be reached. It's always a numbers game. I do agree that one should avoid that highly motivated group though, whatever percentage of the whole they are. That is a battle that usually cannot be won in any reasonable timeframe, without professional-level skills.

[@aaronmalay5497]

The solution to the Paradox of Tolerance is that it's a social contract. One group has abrogated said contract. Therefore we're no longer obliged to tolerate them, and shouldn't.

[@Aster-v8j]

Tolerance is an acknowledgement of somethings importance without maintaining it's validity or value. Tolerance is deniability that doubt obscures. Tolerance exists as "the other." We aren't born with a tag that says "some restrictions may apply"

[@petervizzini4006]

In all fairness, your group started targeting children, which would, of course, provoke a response

[@aaronmalay5497]

@@petervizzini4006 In hindsight, it was incredibly stupid of the right to scream "think of the children!" when theirs were fine, then turn around and harm ours.

[@blarghblargh]

@@petervizzini4006 keep lying. facts are not on your side. but a lot of bigots are

[@davidhlnda]

Targeting children? What the fuck does that even mean. Is the dad who beats his kids because he might be leaning gay ‘targeting’? WTF are you even saying

[@BigMackWitSauce]

I grew up a conservative area and often talked to conservatives with some limited success, and I still do. I notice a big distinction however, between the pro Trump, and I won't call them anti - Trump, but the don't like Trump Republicans (most of this group still voted for him because they view democrats as worse) The pro-Trump republicans are very, very hard to talk to

[@MikeLikesChannel]

They’ve gone off the deep end. Cult members cannot be reasoned with. Which Leeja didn’t touch on.

[@joshuabuchanan1141]

They are very hard to to talk to, unfortunately

[@Khannea]

I am so done engaging in respectful dialogue with people that unambiguously want me dead.

[@joshuanunn9552]

Dang they want you dead. Well I recommend not talking to those hyperbolic strawmen and talk to actual conservatives that exist.

[@rainbowdragon1872]

And the sad part is, because i see that you're a woman, i know exactly the kind of people you're talking about. Smh.

[@yanceyricks2601]

What makes you think they want you dead? Not everyone does, I don’t even know who you are. While you may be tired of it, it is the way that allows both to respectfully disagree. Violence will only bring people back to trenches, and not in the middle of no man’s land.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

What percentage of the people Leeja is referencing here do you think want that? Most don't want that and those are the ones she thinks we should talk to?l.

[@MCady-g8v]

@@downsjmmyjones101 Do they vote for people that enable it? Then who gives a fuck what they actually want. The effects are the same.

[@complexmindsimpleman6642]

So wild to me that people using objective facts and pushing against open hypocrisy are constantly told to be more patient wirh people actively seeking to harm people. If it boils over into conflict it will be sparked from one side and wont be quelled by "hugging it out"

[@masterdecats6418]

Well put.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

It is starting to feel like what people tell abused wives. "Have you tried being nice to him, and not making him angry?', while they seek help to escape.

[@maya.furtado]

Brazil's been through this during the 2022 presidential elections. Everyday during '22 was insane, we were used to waking up to news like "men gets into birthday party of a left supporter and kills him and his family" or "woman gets assaulted on the sidewalk for carrying a left party badge on her purse". I hope you guys can make it through this insane time to keep democracy and a civil state stable in the USA.

[@jgray2718]

Thanks for the best wishes, I hope it gets better for you guys too.

[@masterdecats6418]

@@jgray2718they got a socialist president out of all that bs. The best we can hope for atm is a puppet.

[@Padtedesco]

Everything went to shit since 2014 ellection, where the right wingers claimed for coup.

[@totonow6955]

I recently got the chance of my life to travel to Brazil. Amazing. I love Brazil. I was able to actually speak to some people in Brazil. They were far more open than people here but perhaps because I was coming from an outsider position. I believe we will all make it because so many of us want to and because there are so many contingencies. ❤

[@maya.furtado]

@totonow6955 that's awesome that you came to Brazil and enjoyed your time here! I also believe you'll be able to push the fascists agenda off and keep moving towards the idea of a plural and democratic state. The sad thing is that in order to accomplish that, you guys may have to go through some hard times with one another.

[@SuperCatman]

sorry no, you've missed the mark here. this is not a both sides issue. people on the left have stopped talking to the right because the right has withdrawn themselves from reasonable discussion. they are the ones who must make the move for divisions to heal. I won't hold my breath

[@MsPoliteRants]

We have Newt Gingrich to thank for the right withdrawing from discourse. “How newt Gingrich broke politics”, podcast Fresh Air

[@atmosfear3056]

It’s hard to talk to people that don’t believe in truths. Half of this country are no longer tethered to reality.

[@jamessmith-pf5zf]

Far less than half, my friend. Maga is loud, it is willfully ignorant, and it is a minority.

[@არარსებული]

Can you give me an example of one of these truths?

[@marianaj9]

​​​@@არარსებულიEasy example: Trump lost. I have lots more.

[@ElHombretheman]

@@არარსებულიno they can’t lmao

[@MagusSartori]

oh look a wild sealion!

[@BlackJustice2637]

Part of the issue is that, if you're left leaning, you got that way by listening to and empathize with other viewpoints, respecting other backgrounds. That's antithetical to being conservative. It seems more like right winged individuals are set in their ways. And this is coming from someone who knows a number of them.

[@beybladebaby]

They truly are set in their ways and resist change, yet change happens whether you like it or not

[@rayzhang3425]

That’s the thing- targeting unempathetic voters with empathetic points is pointless. *but* that doesn’t mean there are none: the way to proceed with the selfish is to demonstrate how the GOP actively hurts them, and how it would be better if _certain economic policies_ would help them whoever it’s enacted by, and at least initially ignore the oh so convenient fact of it being only considered by those with leftist ideals

[@cookiekiller4658]

*Pre live event comments* My concern isn't that we aren't talking to the other side, but that the otherside outright refuses to listen and practically lives in another reality. We have seen time and time again that the modern GOP will not accept anything other than outright fascism. There is no interest in talking or negotiating, only squeezing as much power as they possibly can out of the Democratic Party. When analysts say that the GOP is a threat to democracy in the United States they're not lying, I don't know why modern Democrats aren't taking this threat more seriously. *Post live event comments* ​I think for the most part the video was insightful, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around trying to convince fellow leftists/progressives that they need to be having conversations with people who don't engage arguments in good faith and regurgitate blatantly wrong information. How do you expect people to be genuinely engaged when they're having a conversation with someone who has little to no interest in being genuine? *Added because I had an epiphany while reflecting on this video a few hours later* I could be wrong in this statement, but I almost feel like Leeja isn't being entirely honest in this video. The entire purpose of this video was to convince fellow leftists/progressives that hard conversations need to be had and hard work needs to be done, even if you feel like it's pointless. That way, we can all better ourselves, have more bipartisan legislature get passed, and overall become better Americans. I have my doubts that she is being genuine, at 27:53 of the video she admits that she is applying for EU citizenship because she doesn't feel safe in the United States. Could this be a backup plan? Maybe? But in my opinion this gives off the impression that she doesn't actually believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for compromise. If she were being honest about believing there is a better future ahead of us, wouldn't she want to stay in the United States? I know her intentions of this video were good, but something about her dialogue doesn't sit right with me. If there is one thing I've learned over the past few years, it's that if you seed ground to facists, then they'll crave even more.

[@firstlast8258]

Two wings of the same dying bird

[@cookiekiller4658]

@@firstlast8258 I agree, but one wing is trying so desperately to flap while the other lies limp.

[@TheOmegaXicor]

@@cookiekiller4658 only the final third of the wing is truly dead, the first third is trying to flap but out of step with the other wing and the middle third is just trying to hold the wing together.

[@firstlast8258]

@@cookiekiller4658 nope 🤓🖕

[@GustavoNinhio]

@@firstlast8258you aint helping much this way. re-asses your strategy

[@BigSunn0]

I think we're being gaslit into thinking we had anything to do with this

[@orangeofmars2835]

Something difficult to do is to talk to a right wing Trump person that at the same time is telling me that I don't deserve the Social Security or Medicare that I spend 40 years paying into. There is one thing to talk about differences in issue. There is another thing about talking with someone that threatens your very existence.

[@joshuanunn9552]

You should bring up that banks and corporations get handouts while working class people like us get nothing. I would also bring up that rich corporations and not (leftists) are the ones pushing woke ideology and that it is a result of capitalism co opting social justice issues for profit. Also point out that we have been handing billions to Israel ($500 per Israeli citizen) while our citizens starve in the streets without Healthcare. It will get their attention for sure.

[@robertbeste]

I think that's why it's important to engage emotionally and with empathy. Many on the right may not understand how much real people need that support. They are told on the news that welfare is only a tool for scammers and "lazy people". Telling them your personal story and how the aid has helped you may help them recall a time they needed aid too. It can show a real time the money was put to good use and that it's not all a waste.

[@orangeofmars2835]

Yes, but with Social Security and Medicare they have associated that with welfare but in reality Social Security and Medicare are Programs we paid for up front from every one of our paychecks. Also, both programs are still in the black with Social Security being in the black for at least 10 more years. The right sees welfare as something people get for nothing.@@robertbeste

[@GrumpyOldFart2]

I think there might be a misunderstanding about SS. Right wing POLITICIANS have been trying to kill SS for decades. But polls indicate that a vast majority (like above 80%), and the polls cut across demographics and political affiliations. The thing the Big Bastards don’t like is that there’s all this money that they can’t touch. So they lie about it (the politicians, not the every day folks).

[@toddthacker8258]

The funny thing is that Trump--a lifelong NY Democrat--has moved the GOP to the left on several issues. The GOP is far more isolationist in foreign policy, protectionist in trade policy, and supportive of big social programs than it was in 2015. Trump is, for example, a big fan of Medicare and Social Security, so if you really were talking to a "right wing Trump person" who for some reason thought that Social Security or Medicare shouldn't exist, they were pretty far off the Trump reservation. Sounds like you might have been talking to one of the more pure strains of libertarian. And take heart, such people have zero political influence in these United States. That said, the federal government has now borrowed so much that we will be spending $870 billion on interest payments on the national debt this year. That is more than we are projected to spend on Medicare ($851 billion) or defense ($822 billion). The federal deficit is now projected to reach $1.6 trillion (!!) in fiscal year 2024, grow to $1.8 trillion in 2025, and then return to $1.6 trillion by 2027. And this is when federal tax revenues are near record highs. We spent a lot more money during COVID and haven't returned to the pre-COVID baseline. We're accumulating debt far more quickly than we ever have in our history. That which can't continue forever, won't. So if we don't get our financial house in order it's entirely possible that Social Security, Medicare, and many other government programs will face a very-painful reckoning with fiscal reality.

[@theShadowBolts20]

I would love to be empathetic with the people who dont view me as a human with civil rights who deserves to live but they really dont seem interested in extending the same olive branch. Especially after the hundreds of bills proposed this year to dismantle my rights.

[@michaeladkins6]

You talk to republicans and show us how it is done.

[@animal1nstinct394]

I would love to see her actually debate a Republican youtuber. doubt she'd ever do it

[@Matt-fl8uy]

@@animal1nstinct394 She's a lawyer, that's literally her profession. She would crush them.

[@FloorFerret]

​​@@Matt-fl8uy She's a lawyer, yes. A person trained to largely argue in planned proceedings with extreme control of decorum and style. With a moderator who, literally, can throw you in jail for pissing them off. The Internet is no such place. But also important she's a lawyer...not an attorney. At least I see no practice she actively has worked for. She got a law degree and has a bar card for Minnesota, but is otherwise not a practicing attorney. Debates online and with the right, especially, are not rational attorneys raising valid points in defense if their clients. Meanwhile most of her speaking experience is scripted KZbin videos. Intelligent? Yes. But that does not translate to success in debate automatically, especially debates with disingenuous grifters.

[@firstlast8258]

​@@Matt-fl8uyspeak for yourself 🤓 🖕

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@Matt-fl8uy mmmmm no a lawyer is not generally someone who argues with people on youtube...

[@evinthestix7451]

I’ve never been a largely political but I have a rough time with this one. I was in the Army Guard and was mobilized to DC in January 2021. Trump supporters literally pointed guns at me, capital police etc… it’s hard for me to find the trump supporter that isn’t one of those people. I mean, where was their sympathy? I’m a father, I just wanted to defend the constitution then go back home to my wife and kids. I’m out of the army now, but feel like one side showed their nature then.

[@petervizzini4006]

1. Jan. 6 was in 2020, not 2021 2. None if the protestors were armed 3. It's the national guard that would have been deployed not the army 4. Pelosi stopped their deployment

[@BionicDance]

*ME IN A CROSSWALK:* _"Pedestrians have the right of way, dude!"_ *RIGHT-ON-RED GUY:* _"You must be one of those fuckin' liberals!"_ ...I mean, what are you supposed to do with that kinda mindset? Cuz it's not that we're not _trying_ to talk to the other side...it's that _they_ won't engage with us in good faith! Believe me, _I've tried._ But all I get back is snark and hate and "Trump, Trump, Trump!" Talking to the other side only works if both sides are willing to play by the rules.

[@coloradocrone]

I get it

[@somerandomguy4919]

America has to abolished and criminalized conservatism

[@BionicDance]

@@somerandomguy4919 I can't even parse that; can you explain?

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@BionicDance probably not, but I can: he wants attention and you just gave it to him, whoops haha

[@Iquey]

This literally happened to me once. I was crossing the street eating ice cream and wearing sunglasses because I was trying to go back to the icecream place to get my umbrella I left behind. The guy trying to right on red while I was 3/4 across the street blasted his loudspeaker and horn at me saying "YOU PROBABLY VOTED FOR HILLARY!" like that's a dig. Mans have to be dealt with indeed. This was summer 2017.

[@sinisterintelligence3568]

I really love Leeja's work but on this topic, I'm going to have to strongly disagree. As a black and autistic person, I live in Tallahassee, the capital of Florida. My state is the closest in the country to becoming a literal fascist police state. Not a second goes by in which the Florida GOP and governor Ron DeSantis try to impoverish, alienate, disenfranchise, and discriminate aginst communites like myself and others. We're currently passing a law that will forbid giving workers cooling breaks and a law defending Confederate monuments. No, Leeja, we cannot talk to these people. The best thing for us on the left is to prepare for an eventful conflict with these people if they try something stupid if they lose the election.

[@doomsdayrabbit4398]

If? When. They love what the Confederates did. They support the LITERAL MURDER OF AMERICANS.

[@sightline4004]

Cardio is the most useful thing we can all do right now

[@TomisaLami]

I mean I get the point and I wish it were this way and maybe in some small small cases talking to a fascist will work but there's a reason why the anti-fa allies in World War II stormed to the beaches of Normandy with machine guns and tanks and not picnic baskets. It's because you can't just talk to fascists. If you could just talk people out of fascism, there wouldn't be fascism to begin with.

[@Xanthelei]

​@@MaejorArray The issue is more about how many right wingers there even are that you CAN talk to. The majority in my life either argue outright or dismiss and seethe (sadly my grandma does the latter after bringing up some talking point about my transition that I refute with both personal experience and factual data, so its not like this is random people or even coworkers). We've gone from a decent number of GOP in power being willing to talk to basically none (I can't think of one, though there's probably one or two somwhere out there) AND a handful of Dems taking point where the old Republicans used to be. There is a point where we have to acknowledge that avoiding political violence requires both sides to want that and the right simply doesn't anymore.

[@wolfe2166]

That's awful. I used to work in a trade. Without cooling breaks, people are literally going to die.

[@coryjamescooper]

Republicans: We want to take your autonomy rights. Centrists: Hold on, let's hear them out.

[@hambonesmithsonian8085]

This

[@jeffersonclippership2588]

Democrats before elections: we will codify your autonomy rights into law Democrats after elections: we only have 65 votes in the Senates so we can't protect your autonomy rights sorry :(

[@dx.feelgood5825]

@@jeffersonclippership2588literally. They both suck and I’m sick of voting for the lesser evil. We need a goddamn restart.

[@yeahey5947]

@@jeffersonclippership2588yep, dems are opposed opposition. this has always been a fascist empire and the dems: the “other side” is content with business as usual as long as they have political power theyre happy to do nothing because at the end of the day theyre making money.

[@ausername8699]

We don't want to take your rights, we have convictions (both religious and secular) that our communities hold. I've been an advocate of proselytizing and conversion from left-wing beliefs rather than government intervention, as there's no concious choice. Certain charismatic individuals have hijacked our movement (Donald Trump), as an excuse to gain power. I'm more center-right, but that's kind of how I see the current situation in the Republican party. I believe we are on the cusp of another spiritual "Great Awakening" like in the past. But people like Trump and DeSantis are really holding it back.

[@cindyqueen7228]

This youtuber is coming at this from a very privileged position. The fact that she can just up and leave the country speaks to that privilege.

[@Tredemptation]

Y'all just need to talk... Okay, bye!

[@cindyqueen7228]

@@Tredemptation lol 😂 yup, I'm sure that will solve everything. 🙄

[@bobpeters61]

In the immortal words of Carole King, you can't talk to a man with a shotgun in his hand.

[@derrickbperry]

Carole King Is My Kind Of Philosopher!

[@doasyouwouldhavedonetoyou]

My X tells our children he loves Carole King to mask that he held a loaded, safety off gun, while he held it to my head.

[@samgradyfilm]

Simply talk to the Nazis. Hitler was stopped through the power of love and friendly discourse.

[@DeathAndTaxesAbolitionist]

Who is pushing for discrimination on the basis of race, gender and sexual orientation just like the Nazis? Oh! that would be your side.

[@firebat36]

How I defeated Fascism with the power of love, by William. Chapter 1: the power of love. the first step in my journey was realizing its impossible to defeat fascism with the power of love. Chapter 2: The power of incredible violence...

[@SpacemanXC]

I own guns, lets go.

[@unknownuser5895]

​@@DeathAndTaxesAbolitionist(Citation needed)

[@Mayan_88694]

@@DeathAndTaxesAbolitionistno, it’s your side, because you are Neo nazis

[@pauladuncanadams1750]

My biggest problem is that we can't agree with what "is" is. In order to find common ground means that there's a reality that both parties agree with. You can have opinions, but they have to be about something we both see but from a different perspective. If I'm wearing a shirt and you tell me it's a kimono, there's no reality that we can discuss. You can have an opinion about my shirt, I can find it beautiful and you can find it's ugly. And that's OK. But if we don't both see a shirt (reality), then there's no place for the conversation to grow.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

The creationists, flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers and other conspiracy theorists heavily lean right wing. We don't need "discussions", we need to talk about deprogramming brainwashed cultists.

[@grenadine420]

"My biggest problem is that we can't agree with what "is" is." seriously cannot tell if that is a "you" problem or a "me" problem. am pretty sure that's a "you" problem. you do not seem to recognise there is only the one reality, and i'm not locked in this one with you, you are trapped in this one with me :) there are infinitely many narratives woven by infinitely many perspectives, but we all share the same "reality" in the hamiltonian-einstein-spacetime physics way. the math says that, so we can all agree to SOMETHING and start the conversating. learn quantum field theory, paula :)

[@pauladuncanadams1750]

@grenadine420 Well, if we are locked I the same reality, then you believe vaccines save lives, you don't believe in conspiracy theories, don't follow "Q" like it's your own personal treasure hunt, and stay away from questionable sites like (un)Truth Social and Faux News. Good for you! That's sanity.

[@faxmine]

​@@grenadine420Okay, yeah. I totally agree. So, where would you start with someone if you had a difficult topic you wanted to discuss with them?

[@grenadine420]

@@faxmine i have always found fred rogers to be a role model in all of the ways. he was able to find common ground with his interlocutors, and would connect with their humanity. just ask yerself, what would fred do? and that's usually the right answer.

[@hermione3muller674]

Ex right extremist here. I only woke up because there was one person who dared to talk to me despite my right extremism. I encourage you to talk even to the farthest extremist. Even if it seems that it does not have any effect. In my case it took years for that conversation to thaw my stuck mind. Any line you say has the potential to stuck in an extremist s mind like a seed that may take years to sprout but it very likely will.

[@Himbeaw]

If one side already wants a civil war, de-escalation isn’t going to work, the appetite for civil war is maddening rage & political violence, these things don’t spawn overnight nor do they go away overnight either.

[@tankiegirl]

Why do they want a civil war? Is it because neoliberalism has lowered the quality of their lives?

[@DayleDiamond]

There's nobody on the other side actively trying to avoid Civil War. Maybe they forgot they lost. Reminding warmongers how willing you are to win again may be more effective than wishing they felt the same way you do and appealing to imaginary better instincts. Trying to avoid conflict fuels bullies into escalating their behavior.

[@darthbahnsen3832]

All it takes for evil to exist.......

[@MrStasyan2013]

You won't win

[@DayleDiamond]

@@MrStasyan2013 The Union won the Civil War and changed many Confederate minds, by dispersing them.

[@darklightimages]

I thought the republicans won the civil war ?

[@unknownuser5895]

​​@@MrStasyan2013You keep telling yourself that snowflake

[@thomastrinkle2294]

Leeja, would you have been saying this in 1859? Would you have been calling for us to reach across the aisle and find common ground with slaveowners? To have dialogue with people who thought it was their right to own other people as property?

[@masterdecats6418]

You raise a good point. America has ALWAYS been an extremely fcked up country. Lmao

[@deathdealer312]

Do you think that someone who believes slavery is ok could have their opinion changed or is it physically impossible?

[@yannickgullentops6857]

Obviously, why dont you think you can find common ground?

[@thomastrinkle2294]

@@deathdealer312 It’s not like those slaveowners were unaware of the torture and dehumanization slaves went through. They thought they were good things. How do you reach common ground with someone like that?

[@VerryBonne]

The point was raised repeatedly in the video that talking to people is unlikely to change their mind and you should expect to be disappointed. Having a dialogue with the other side in 1859 wouldn't have meant you would have succeeded in convincing them to abandon slavery by choice. It wouldn't mean you would abandon your principles and give in to their demands. Exhausting your diplomatic options before resorting to war is worth doing even if it doesn't end up working.

[@erikarabie]

Step 1: stop watching corporate news

[@gfdnnfnfgnfgn]

step 2: stop listening to leftgroids

[@joshuabuchanan1141]

Damn right

[@masterofwriters4176]

Word of advice, start with talking to the center and work your way right. Don't start by trying to talk down a self described fascist, go for the people who may be starting to get pulled right and then use what you learn from those interactions to be able to debate the more extreme people.

[@homingice6444]

Also don't go more left. The more left you go in terms of policies. The more that the center position looks like a fascist position.

[@blackeyedsusan727]

Well both of you are wrong because the U.S. doesn't have a true Left, and the Centre is not inhabited by MAGAs or those sympathetic to them. The true Centre in this country is represented by the likes of Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren, with Bernie only Left of Centre. Once we define what the hell we are talking about, we will be more effective at actually making a useful point.

[@Sarah-re7cg]

@@homingice6444wouldn’t that say something about the Overton window then? When I studied abroad in London, their moderate right is considered communists by the US center-right. I wish I was being overdramatic.

[@homingice6444]

@@Sarah-re7cg define center right. Do you mean independents that lean to the right. If so, ehhhh I don't know about that one. If you're talking about the actual right position and being in the center of the right. Than I'm not surprised. Greg Abbot basically said you got six weeks to have an abortion and that's a bit too soon to see if you have a baby within six weeks.

[@tcfonts]

How do you converse with someone who believes their opinions are backed by the "divine"?

[@GustavoNinhio]

read their source books, suggest counterpoints from their source books. not a definitive answer but its a start.

[@Dr_Procrastinator]

then use divine counter arguments, like the "love they neighbour" and the whole its for god to judge not you arguments just to name 2.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@GustavoNinhio That hardly ever does anything. Because then your suggestion basically amounts to "They become an atheist (unlikely) or they just say you're lying and stay the same". Because I do that a lot and I always get a similar sort of reply: "I'm not taking my view of Scripture from a non-Christian". It's just an immediate shut down.

[@jhemp]

​@@GustavoNinhioThe funniest part of this will be you'll learn the majority of them have never read that material and only believe what others say is in those pages.

[@arcanineryu]

I generally ask them "so why don't Jewish people believe in hell?" Amd then go from there.

[@retrofuture6786]

I *wish* it was that easy, but when one side wants ya dead, its not exactly possible.

[@tankiegirl]

One side?

[@masterdecats6418]

@@tankiegirlThe alt right, ie neo fascists.

[@godofpencils01]

This is very good and practical advice with ASTOUNDINGLY awful framing. I think the problem is not that the advice is bad, it is just being given as a solution to a problem it is comically ill suited to solving. The advice she gives here is a pretty good way to get equitable with people you disagree with and help get them closer to your views. It is incredibly naïve and distasteful to present this as the way to prevent a goddamn civil war. Texas Governor Greg Abbott has publicly announced he will ignore the government and supreme court and take the law into his own hands, and many prominent members of the alleged part of law and order have leapt at the chance to help him. This is not a hearts a minds issue. You will not stop a civil war one heartfelt conversation at a time because men like Abbott do not need majority support, they need the support of an extremely motivated minority, and for the powers that be to not properly enforce the law against them.

[@AARon-fe1mo]

As a liberal who grew up in the south and was raised by conservatives I know their arguments very well. I also know there is a huge difference between a conservative and a Trump supporter and I’ve watched most of my friends go from being a conservative who was open minded and genuinely didn’t care what people did in their personal lives because that was a fundamental belief they had, to now wanting to enforce laws against specific groups of people because of their life style. I wish we had more conservatives but they are increasingly harder to find these days.

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

So what is the common thread there? You watched them become fascist bigots out of nowhere? There must have been something...?

[@lordpessimism]

There really isn't a difference between conservative and MAGA. Conservativism at its core is about maintaining social hierarchies. MAGA is a reactionary movement to those hierarchies being threatened, by gay rights, by immigration, by labor movements... A black president was the last straw.

[@xDCAxNexus]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with lowercase c conservatives, like the ones I believe you are alluding to. The ones that live their life in a traditional way, but are not hostile to the ways of life of others (and don't seek to control their lives.) Unfortunately, as you said, it seems more are people are switching from this more agreeable traditional perspective to the harsher types of Conservative and even fascist thought where the end result of their beliefs demands violence. It's a horrible state of things.

[@AARon-fe1mo]

@@xDCAxNexus I don’t consider the “MAGA” crowd conservative at all. I can co-exist and have healthy disagreements with a conservative but I can’t take a group of people serious who live in a different reality then everyone else.

[@OscarLangleySoryu]

@@AARon-fe1mo Yeah, well, you have the option. Those of us their violent policies have been hurting since the beginning of this country cannot "healthily disagree" that we shouldn't have the right to be recognized for marriage, that we should be arrested for being accused of being gay behind closed doors, that we should be forced into segregation of all kinds... There never has been a respectable conservative. It's never just been about taxes. You didn't used to think about minorities so you were comfortable. That's what changed.

[@crypticcryptid5104]

On the part where Leeja is talking about showing empathy and people on the right and it just reminds me of Trump making jokes about the guy who attacked Nancy Pelosi’s husband. People’s safety is something the right jokes about anymore. It’s hard thinking you can get through to someone who feels that way.

[@haileydee9954]

If I can't change people's mind that I, a trans woman, deserves rights, what is the point? This is a serious question.

[@dwayneasher6765]

I hate it when people do that I promise you most people who believe in God are not like that

[@Nick_CF]

​@@thinkharder9332the fucking right to exist

[@retrofuture6786]

You know which rights ya fuck​@@thinkharder9332

[@Scar-jg4bn]

​@@thinkharder9332 the right to pull the padge in women's spaces and dominate women's sports.

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@thinkharder9332 The right to be as they are (which in no way hurts anyone). The ability to undergo gender reassignment surgery or medication. The ability to be a parent (whether medically or via adoption). These are the rights, among others.

[@Handel-0005]

Lost all my conservative friends to conversative media, but I still close to my parents. They liked Nikki Halley, growth I guess. One friend was dear to me, and I warned him about listening to the fear mongering. He had a child and asked for my advice about his fear over protecting him. I told him it is a reconciliation with reality. He has to go to work, his kids go to school, he can't be around them 24/7, so educate yourself and accept. He bought an assault rifle instead. Then a glock for a wife. I saw it on a pillow in the living room. He says it for home invasions, they happen all the time. He had another child and bought more guns. He then said he no longer trusts me, and not to come by anymore. It is too dangerous to go there regardless.

[@uhohhotdog]

Can’t say nice things about people who literally want the other side to die

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Do you think all conservatives want to kill liberals?

[@brenta2634]

Spot on

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Do you believe all conservatives want to kill "the other side"?

[@downsjmmyjones101]

Do you believe those people are the majority?

[@brenta2634]

@@downsjmmyjones101I do not, but they don't have to be the majority to inflict actual harm.

[@Zach-si1gf]

i understand your point but i really disagree with the framing of "we're refusing to talk to Republicans", when so many minorities HAVE been trying to talk to these people that seemingly do not have empathy or understanding for marginalized groups.

[@jd4121]

Same thing with equating extreme right with extreme left; there’s no extreme left. Wanting universal healthcare, a living wage and an end of racism and bigotry is not extremism.

[@Boris80b]

@@jd4121 Correct! there is pretty much no "extreme left" in the United States.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

And how have they been "talking" to these Republicans? Just saying "You're racist/sexist/homophobic/etc and need to stop." does not count.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

@@jd4121 Did left wing political riots not happen in 2020?

[@jlevans1985]

​@@downsjmmyjones101 would you rather we sugar coat it?

[@Fitzgibbon299]

As a leftist, it is my personal belief that it is impossible to be a modern Republican with a conscience. The cognitive dissonance required for that is just far too much to sustain long-term.

[@tankiegirl]

The same can be said about liberals

[@comradeinternet467]

@@tankiegirl Liberals are centre-right, dingus.

[@flaminhotfuckingcheetos2536]

I’ve met some republicans they’re fine

[@tankiegirl]

@@flaminhotfuckingcheetos2536 Some just don't want their guns taken away. Perfectly reasonable if you live in a rural area

[@flaminhotfuckingcheetos2536]

@@tankiegirlI’m sayin like idc bout ya guns brah just don’t use it on me lol

[@RMTH2009]

I don’t even try anymore. The amount of times I’ve heard “I’m oppressed” when talking about the HUMAN rights of others has done me in. Others having the same rights and opportunities as you does not lead to your oppression. I can’t reason with them so I don’t even try.

[@petervizzini4006]

Considering how the left has acted these past few years I would say it is your side who believes they're "oppressed"

[@jordahnnelson9926]

The idea we can simply talk to people and end bigotry with the marketplace of ideas is idealistic and has been proven historically false time and again. The problems are bigger than individual belief systems, racism, homophobia, classism etc are insitutions that are fundamental to our country and they need to be torn down completely before meaningful change can be enacted.

[@Theomite]

One of the great fallacies we took from the Civil Rights movement was that bigotry and hatred were the result of provincial thinking and uneducated ignorance. It took Trump to show us that bigotry and hatred can be intelligent and rooted in deliberate antipathy. Liberals have always had trouble wrapping their heads around the concept of evil.

[@calebscott-joseph366]

I agree that a lot of these problems are baked into this country and that individual belief systems aren't the root cause. But we aren't going to tear down the institutions of this country any time soon. And 99% of people living here don't want this so... we have to do the hard work of making this country better for those who live in it. Saying that we need to tear down the fundamental institutions of our country before we can create meaningful change just leaves those hurt most by racism, homophobia, classism, etc. hung out to dry, and gives people (particularly in my experience white leftists) an excuse to just disengage with society and not care about the people who face racism and bigotry every day. Also, Leeja says that expecting people to change their mind from these talks is unrealistic. Discussion and dialogue can be helpful, although I don't think that one should have these discussions if they aren't

[@soulsbane]

This was so much easier years ago. Making this harder was a deliberate conservative strategy, which culminated in Karl Rove and Mitch McConnell putting the last nails in. Vietnam protests concentrated on universities -> cut education funding, make anti-intellectualism a core conservative tenant Lower media literacy -> accountability decreases and dishonesty becomes less of an issue Cultivate anti-elitism and "down to earth" images -> being called out for being wrong no longer matters Avoid actual policy as a campaign strategy -> No real stances to oppose, only having to appeal to emotions This leaves conservatives in a unique position of not having to do anything, say anything, mean anything, be right, or even make sense. There is an endless pile of "others" to point fingers at to appeal to any given crowd for maximum easy ingratiation, and easily being able to bribe single-issue voters without actually committing. Campaigning against abortion was easy so long as overturning RvW was an unrealistic outcome. The number of conservatives who even CAN be reached is incredibly small, and most that you think you have reached are like kicking a bale of wool - as soon as your foot is gone, so is the impression. I have been doing this a long time. It has become easier and easier for my (boring liberal "give a shit about people") perspective to be written off using a series of labels rather than actually bothering to disagree with me. This extends to both the older members of my family who vote right, and those who were LITERAL HIPPIES.

[@Krazie-Ivan]

..."bale of wool" is my brother. thx for sharing this term.

[@jasperchristie133]

Yeah I think a lot of Republicans are just voting based on vibes, not policies or facts. It’s a problem, but in a way it’s almost… hopeful? Because you can influence peoples’ feelings on an issue with anecdotes, emotions, human connection, etc. Unfortunately, it means they’re allergic to facts.

[@TheForestFaye]

My empathy is being applied to the most vulnerable citizens, the empathy well has run dry to those who are both comfortably living and oppressing others through draconian legislation. To treat those with the absurd view that marginalized groups of people like LGBTQ+ and POC are controlling politics as if they are rational is to invite absurdity into public discourse which will lead to atrocities.

[@sallyd3700]

This!!! When women are being reduced to incubators or coffins, books are being banned for containing uncomfortable truths, healthcare not agreed with being outlawed, asylum seekers being abused, kidnapped, killed, I have a difficult time finding a common inch, much less ground. I think too many compromises and concessions have occurred in the history of this country to the extreme detriment of many of her citizens.

[@RedLion_52]

100%. One of the core flaws of liberals is lacking any theory of power, which leads to ignorance of actual oppressive structures in favor of distracting and unproductive individualistic frameworks.

[@petervizzini4006]

1. Those groups aren't marginalized 2. A rather large portion of lgbtq has become rather..."Inappropriate" as of late in public and in the classroom

[@tomb613]

I agree. The Republicans are not rational. The Republican voters have been subjected to decades of sophisticated mind-control techniques. To get some of these people to come around to reality we have psychological barriers to get around. Check out interviews with Dr. Steven Hassan. Hassan is a former Cult member and deprogramming expert who teaches us how millions of Americans have been radicalized and brainwashed and how to deprogram them. He has had success with deprogramming hardcore MAGA cult members. Even if you aren't interested in deprogramming any Magats Hassan explains how they were radicalized and worship a disgusting human being Donald Trump.

[@Ellieempress]

@@petervizzini4006what exactly is it that you are referring to as inappropriate?

[@ThunderTheBlackShadowKitty]

We do not negotiate with terrorists.

[@Shwee113]

I think "bad person" is incorrect to a point. But it's hard to empathize with people who seem to pride themselves in being scientifically illiterate. I'm so tired of people being mad that different people exist. Media seems to tell all of us to be mad about something but we end up mad about different things. For example; Walz granted free school lunches to children. Some of us are mad about that there are hungry kids, some of us are mad that we have to pay taxes for other people's kids. Some of use realize that society is diverse and works better when we help each other through these public programs. Some people feel that you should rely on yourself only. That being said, I've never been yelled at by a Democrat or leftist.

[@CarlosIowa]

Your hearts in the right place. And you are correct. Christians forget the "Brothers' Keeper" part. And true, without the very fundamentals how can any negotiation take place? Hard to communicate when the person on the other side tells you to F Off while displaying the pistol on their belt and an AR 15 "Deer Rifle" slung over their shoukder. I have no suggestions. And I'm sorry about that. In the human condition so.e things cannot be fixed. And we go to war. And we get sick of war. And we start all over again until we forget how useless war really is ...Wish you the best.

[@tankiegirl]

Democrats are still spending billions on tests and mandates that don't work instead of passing paid time off. Both sides are scientifically illiterate

[@maggiedacatt]

I feel like this framing puts the burden of avoiding violence on the potential victims of said violence.

[@darthbahnsen3832]

"If you just talk to them, thet won't want to hurt you for supporting someone other than trump." Don't get me wrong, i debate conservatives all the time. But they are so misinformed and willfully ignorant that it starts feeling like we aren't even experiencing the same reality.

[@maggiedacatt]

@@darthbahnsen3832 Right? If only Charles Sumner had talked more with the other side instead of letting himself get caned nearly to death… we could have avoided that whole first Civil War!

[@DayleDiamond]

@@darthbahnsen3832 Try treating the willfully ignorant as informed liars instead. They don't really think masks cause cancer, they imagine life would be better after a deadly pandemic, and that viruses will cull all the people they hate. But they don't think they can say that part out loud yet. So they pretend to believe what they can say out loud.

[@124085]

That is true, but the reality is that not all of us have the luxury of isolating from republican family members or colleagues. If there's a way to handle the less extreme republicans, or at a minimum give them pause then I think that's worth listening to.

[@loveableheathen7441]

I’m starting to think they are a lost cause. During a conversation with my trump supporter grandpa, he was going on a rant about immigrants and I said “they’re just people, like us” and he responded “no they aren’t”

[@dirt007]

I'd like to say. As an autistic person who is a recently converted leftist. The fact that people respond to feelings instead of facts makes me want to live on another planet.

[@christophermeier8329]

Same.

[@ravimediatube]

both sides do this tbh

[@scotthullinger4684]

A recently converted Leftist is a person who wants the nation to go from bad to worse.

[@jessicaK_wolfspirit00]

Same here. I consider both factual and anecdotal arguments and weigh each one to see which one holds more weight. I wish people could be more logical and take facts, data, statistics, and fields of study more seriously. If you're arguing with a homophobe that's saying homosexuality isn't natural just because of what their Bible says, showing them scientific studies that found homosexual behaviors in thousands of other species in the animal kingdom shouldn't just be dismissed just because it might not line up with that person's views. Objectively, facts do hold more weight than emotions and personal anecdotes. I know that's probably just human nature for people to be guided by emotions but I've never been a big fan of human nature. I hope we evolve past that.

[@Pistolita221]

@@ravimediatube true.

[@epictoenails]

No, I don't think my racist, homophobic, anti-BLM, anti-China parents who once told me I was "worse than racism" for getting hurt by their disgusting mockery of Chinese people are "bad," I think they are very hard-working, devoted parents whose set ways are derived from their love for me and their need to see me successful and happy, that is, the way they define "happy" based on the not-so-tolerant time period they were brought up in. That is WHY conservatives', particularly elder conservatives', views are so inflexible to begin with, and why they resort to gaslighting, victim-blaming, willful ignorance, etc - it's hard for them to process the fact that the values they were taught since childhood would be good for their children are actually hurting them instead. I KNOW conservatives are not "bad people," and that is WHY I have to avoid talking to them for my own sanity, because it hurts the most when the hatred comes from "good" people who you love, and that is usually the hatred that just doesn't stop no matter how much you try to "talk" to it. That being said, still love and support your channel, and I know and support several people who share your viewpoints, particularly the last one concerning civil war, and that's the one I understand the most. I am definitely in the "too hurt to cradle bigoted feels" category, and I personally believe being loud, clear, and uncompromised is what earned most marginalized groups their rights, but offering a hand to those willing to listen and seek "second chances" with those they hurt is always on the back of my mind.

[@conan4real]

it takes time.. I'm in a very similar situation, with similar parents and it took me a long time to try speaking out against them because of how cruel and violent they were to me in the past when i tried, but in the future if you are ever up for it i think it's worthwhile to try. It is incredibly hard, and it is extremely challenging, but if they're people you want to keep in your life then the effort is worth it. Take care of yourself and your own mental health first 🖇️ it's impossible to have healthy conversations if you aren't in a pristine mindset for it. My parents haven't changed much, but my mom has shown some forms of genuine change and I think that maybe in a few years she'll start supporting me being a transgender man, but maybe she won't and that's also something you need to settle with yourself before you get too involved in trying to 'change' them. Having personal connections helps, it helps to get involved with the communities that you enjoy locally, to make smaller stands against their beliefs that support yourself and other minorities locally.. hope this reply helps, it is a very tough situation to be in, and honestly sometimes it feels like there is no escape and they will never change. If you love them and believe they can change then the effort is always worth it. I don't try as hard with my dad because I'm not sure if he's capable of change, I'm not sure he wants to, or cares about me enough to try. But my mom does, and she's shown that in her own special small ways.. it's really hard and it's a struggle every day but those small moments where i can feel some hope and comfort in our future make it so so worth it and remind me of the wonderful person she could be, and can be, but i don't think she'll be that person without me. And honestly it is an extremely hard pill to swallow, and it sucks to have to parent your parents and coddle their beliefs.

[@Craterfist]

Regardless of my patience and openness, those I politically disagree with are more likely to not see me as a human with rights, and have very likely voted to restrict my rights. Some may even wish to commit violence upon me. I cannot just "live and let live" or "agree to disagree" with that. If the two major political parties are "kill LGBT people" or "don't actively target LGBT" people, there's no middle ground in that. I can't entertain that notion. The opposing political group in question also is just not living in the same reality. I can't talk about the facts if they're treating facts as psyops and propaganda as gospel. "Drag queen trans groomers, pizzagate, stolen election," etc etc etc. The common ground the conversation might start on just isn't there, because there isn't a common reality. It's like talking to a cult. A militant cult. I'm not talking to them without armed guards flanking me, thanks.

[@JDSileo]

Sounds like your options are to either unalive them, continue talking to them, or wait for them to amass enough power to unalive you. Do I have all the options covered here or is there a fourth I haven't considered that you think would be available?

[@Galakktika]

​@@JDSileo move to europe, boom.

[@Craterfist]

Dual citizenship in Europe is looking tempting lately.

[@bryanrhodes369]

​​​​​@@JDSileowait until they become so toxic that nobody takes them seriously and they lash out in frustration and completely alienate the last of their supporters. Oh wait. We are already on the brink of that.

[@billymitchell655]

You chose to be gay

[@MrLinuxNoob]

"You're the smartest person I know, and you're too stupid to see, they made up their minds ten minutes ago" -Paraphrased from Breaking Bad

[@ajpend]

Boom.

[@jamessanders145]

True Hank but it applies to people on both sides. ONly difference being there's no massive cult taking over the mainstream democratic party and well, the GOP as we knew it is gone

[@enihil7713]

While that may be true for many right wingers, it’s also not true for many others. Not all conservatives are at the level of the white power gang in Breaking

[@gabrielmaroto18]

Our cartoon president: Why build a wall at the border? When there’s a wall around your heart.

[@tuckerlovesbernie]

RIP Hank

[@joshuabates7424]

Our mayor in Nebraska was against SNAP funding for children over the summer. A federal program was already approved but each state had to accept it. He refused the help saying "I do not believe in welfare." "The kids can get food at churches and summer camps." Dems pointed out all the issues with that and that he was talking about kids going hungry!!! There were even protests at his house and a petition. A couple days ago he said he "changed his mind," because he talked to some people who had gone hungry when they were children. The FACTS that the program would help 150,000 children EAT did not change his mind. The only way he changed his mind was by people actually explaining the issue to him in personal terms.

[@MindForgedManacle]

In all likelihood, it wasn't even that. More likely he had some indication that his actions would be harmful to his political prospects. Not to burst any bubbles, but that's basically the only actual reason politicians change actions on issues they say they believe in.

[@zildjiandrummer1]

@@MindForgedManacle But isn't that, like, the whole deal of democracy? We elect representatives and they represent us with the threat of being voted out. In this case he's listening to his constituents, no?

[@saintsfearful]

He didn’t change his mind, he saw that it was politically disadvantageous to continue supporting the policy. People who want children to starve for ideological reasons are basically demons.

[@sashalynn6087]

​@zildjiandrummer1 Words are cheap, and actions are golden. See how that person votes next time around.

[@themajesticspider-man6116]

@@zildjiandrummer1 Yes, technically that's the case with the above example, but the point MindForgedManacle was making is that he didn't do it because he started feeling anything for his constituents, he just didn't want to be voted out in the future. That's the reality of politics. He's still objectively a morally repugnant individual.

[@BeekersSqueakers]

I talked to my uncle once who was anti-gay marriage. I simply asked him to explain why he felt that way. After some hemming and hawing and poorly thought out answers, I found out he was SA'd by another male when he was a child. The discomfort he felt about gay men that informed his anti-gay marriage position was a subconscious trauma response. I don't think he ever would have made that connection if someone hadn't asked him to actually explain his position rather than just attacking it. When you attack someone's belief, they never have to think about why they believe it. When you ask someone to explain their belief, it forces them to think about it more deeply. Every time I do, we both find out that their reasoning is much weaker than they thought.

[@petervizzini4006]

We now have members in the multiple letter community who want to normalize maps

[@Picla_Peremohy]

Communication is a two-way street. You can try speaking with the other side; however, if their minds are closed, you are banging your head on a rock.

[@MsPoliteRants]

And then they turn it on YOU: “so much for your open mind!” Well, yeah, dad, I was raised conservative and believed right wing stuff and then with my open (and curious) mind I learned nuance and truth and now live solidly in reality where we have very high certainty that climate change is real and man made (for instance). Is my mind still supposed to stay open after I’ve already seen evidence? No, of course not. But unfortunately each side thinks this way about each other. “Well IM in the right so you just need to shut up and listen to ME”. I don’t even like using the phrase “open mind(ed)”.

[@elijahguttman9289]

It's important to emphasize that some people are more open to discussion than others. I live in a small town where we had a plebiscite on whether or not to have wind turbines built in the nearby forest. I was able to convince my grandma and aunt who had initially been against them debunking all the misinformation they had believed so far. But trying to talk to strangers was basically impossible. Either they didn't want to listen, or they accused me of being part of some organization or interest group. So yeah, choose who you talk to in order to maximize your chances of success. Trying to have a discussion with randos rarely gets you anywhere.

[@lordpessimism]

You can't logic someone out of a position that they didn't logic themselves into.

[@christophermeier8329]

This isn't a dig on you. This is educational. Logic doesn't mean what you think it is. Logic is simply the way someone has connected the dots, right or wrong, factual or false. These people did Logic themselves into this and that is precisely why we can't use Logic supported by evidence to Logic them out. If you familiarize yourself with the rhetorical triangle, pathos, logos, ethos, you will see what I mean.

[@lordpessimism]

@@christophermeier8329 We're using two different definitions of logic. Yours is "any thought process", while I mean "A->B". Conservatives don't do A->B, they do racism->B, or religion->B, or feelings->B

[@christophermeier8329]

@@lordpessimism causality is one form of logic.

[@lordpessimism]

@@christophermeier8329 Like I said, we're using different definitions. Mine doesn't allow the use of irrational feelings as a logical basis for a position. For example, if you're opposed to immigration because you FEEL immigrants commit more crimes than Americans, I don't consider that a logical position. The FACTS say that immigrants commit fewer crimes. It's not logical to be against immigration for this reason when it's in opposition to the facts.

[@christophermeier8329]

@lordpessimism it is a logical position, though. It is a logical fallacy: casting a wide net. This logic is supported by pathos, and ethos is not present in that argument. It's still logic, it's flawed logic. You have to look at it objectively or from a perspective that is not your own. We can argue semantics all day long, but I dont want to.

[@H1Caliber]

I agree… but the thing is, folks on the right need to see this. All the sharing in the world won’t matter when that particular person is dead set on winning.