Legacy of Kain: Defiance - 26 - Mortanius' redemption

[@KhydroDjent]

you can tell by the look on Raziel's face he doesn't want to Kill Kain

[@WisteriaNerium]

That look Raziel has on his face at the end, it really says so much of the conflict he's going through with all of this new found information and slowly coming to the realization that he has to kill Kain, he doesn't know that he mustn't but in his mind he already made that decision.

[@BryonYoungblood]

Made worse too when the Hylden souls he absorbed when he killed Turel and absorbed his soul too pushed him to do it so that the Scion of Balance would be dead and thus unable to return the Pillars to vampire control and keep the Hylden sealed away.

[@thegamingprozone1941]

Nice Killer7 pic!

[@Rainychainyremakes]

1:03 the hylden:with or without you we will provail raziel:kain we walked right into the hylden's trap kain:yep

[@quinny52]

Alistair Duncan here portraying Mortanius, would go on to portray Alfred Pennyworth in 'The Batman', Steven Armstrong in Metal Gear Rising, and Mimir in GoW4.

[@CamSiv996]

Not to mention Celebrimbor from Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor and War.

[@BryonYoungblood]

Mr. Duncan does justice to Mortanius even if I can bet it'd be harder for Tony Jay to reprise him. And he really also sounds creepy when the Hylden Lord possesses Mortanius' body to speak through him

[@quinny52]

@@BryonYoungblood Sadly Tony Jay (Elder God), Paul Lukather (Vorador) and René Auberjonois (Janos Audron) are no longer with us. This series is long overdue a remaster/remake or a new entry to conclude it, but I'd be very happy to see Alistair reprise his role along with Simon Templeman and Michael Bell.

[@sethsword9680]

Quite the resume, I had no idea.

[@shaneokeley825]

And Vulture in the 2017 animated Spider man series

[@Death_Korps_Officer]

So this is why Mimir never talked about his past fully.

[@RoadWulf]

It's clear that Mortanius didn't have this change of heart about the Vampires until after his possession however. It was then he realized how wrong he was, and started to work toward correcting it. The Unspoken, later known as the Hylden Lord, enacted the plan to kill Ariel and weaken the pillars. And while he thought he was serving Hylden interests, he was actually helping his own enemy, the Elder God. Moebius could have easily forseen not only Ariel's death but the consequences of and stopped it, but the Elder no doubt was aware of it and told him to do nothing. Mortanius lives in regret of not listening to the vampires, in creating the Sarafan and hunting them down, in allowing the binding to weaken and thus releasing the Hylden Lord who possesses him. But by the time he was possessed and corrupted, seeing out Vorador or some other vampire to turn him was already too late.

[@BryonYoungblood]

Yup. While Moebius was blind by his service to the Elder God, unaware of what his "master" really was as well as how he aided in so much with the Hylden's "victory" by manipulating Kain to kill William the Just as well as manipulating William into becoming the Nemesis, as well as manipulating the Sarafan when Vorador came for Janos's heart after his death. But in the 30 years he realized his mistake, before having Kain killed, that Mortanius had time to prepare as best he could to make up for his mistakes. And the fact is too, Mortanius KNEW it would mean his death what he would do, but his actions, even if it would take a good deal of time for them to really take fruition on top of his missing the *TRUE* meaning of Kain being the Scion of Balance (given he assumed that role was the vampires' champion), would allow Kain to seek out his true destiny, to be able to restore the Pillars and return them to vampire guardianship, thus casting the Hylden out forever as well as Raziel purifying him and the Soul Reaver to allow Kain to be armed for his true endeavor-- to destroy the Elder God.

[@leaitihr9885]

Turns out Mortanious was a Chad guy

[@thesidneychan]

Holy shit I just realised this is the same voice of the elf in Shadow of Mordor!

[@CamSiv996]

Celebrimbor.

[@DragonoidBerserker1]

Yep. Had the same idea

[@atmastand3485]

@@DragonoidBerserker1 And Senator Steven Armstrong

[@Tabmaster94]

I WAS WONDERING WHY CELEBRIMBOR SOUNDED FAMILIAR

[@jmlaw8888]

And Nihlus from Mass Effect.

[@StygianWolf]

I always found it interesting how everyone was so uppity about The Vampire/Hylden champion...Mortanius from the very get go knew the true importance lay with the Scion of Balance.

[@BryonYoungblood]

And it's interesting how Raziel is both the Vampire AND Hylden champions, but he would be able to choose that fate for himself, while Kain held significance due to the importance of his duties as the Scion of Balance, not just to restore the Pillars to vampire guardianship and to seal the Hylden away, but to free the Wheel of Fate from the Elder God's grasp.

[@StygianWolf]

@@BryonYoungblood Janos was the only one who truly understood Raziel's status as both champions once he saw the wraith blade. Vorador also seemed to allude to Raziel being both champions, but unlike Janos; he failed to comprehend that Raziel was both; instead waiting for Raziel to choose to be one or the other.

[@BryonYoungblood]

@@StygianWolf True dat, even Mortanius misunderstood the Scion of Balance for the vampires’ champion rather than something else entirely.

[@blesseddrones9852]

@@StygianWolf Moebius knew, in Soul Reaver 2 the first words Moebius said to Raziel was "redeemer and destroyer".

[@StygianWolf]

@@blesseddrones9852 good point, Moebius also knew.

[@Alessandro-fv5lp]

One of my favorite moments, I think it's such a powerful scène.

[@maxamusholden]

@Darkinu2 Mortanius redeemed himself by creating the Scion of Balance through Kain's rebirth as a vampire (back in Blood Omen). He believes that the Scion of Balance can save Nosgoth from the Hylden by returning the world to vampire guardianship.

[@ljklmoiaoklmlljkajksjdklfm503]

Too bad he's wrong cuz now the hylden are in control they have janos audron and kain's heart that means kain is their slave they can kill janos and then kain bye bye

[@Teixas666]

Janos is too valuable ot them, plus the heart has no effect on Kain anymore, it belogs to janos, kain is sustained jhis his guardianship to the pillars

[@theeverchosen1504]

@@ljklmoiaoklmlljkajksjdklfm503 Janous from there goes on to be the engine for the weird thing in blood omen 2, kain from the past saves him

[@adalvarthepeaceful]

@@Teixas666 Guardianship of the pillars does not sustain the Guardian's life. Kain survived the removal of the Heart of Darkness simply due to how old and powerful he is at stage, the series makes multiple mentions of that (from both Raziel and Kain himself). I mean it makes sense...he's been alive for what, two-ish millennia? All the while drinking oceans of blood to stengthen himself and collecting whatever knowledge, Dark Gifts and artefacts he could come across to hone his powers? He's very much transcended the point of being a vampire and is pretty much a physical dark god. The only thing that could kill Kain is the Soul Reaver and by extension Raziel, who also pretty much reached physical god levels.

[@GhosthOver9000]

@@adalvarthepeaceful nope, kain survived because raziel activated the spirit forge as it called all the balance guardians, hence why kain said he felt an urge to go to avernus

[@Darkstar263]

It's all very well that Mortanius wanted to redeem himself by wanting to restore the Pillars to Vampire guardianship by creating Kain. And also to redeem himself for being the one who started it all when he killed Ariel (While possessed) But it's unfortunate that Moebius threw a huge spanner in the works by manipulating the younger Kain into killing William. A pretext to justify killing all the Vampires. When younger Kain had to make his decision. Both outcomes were equally bad - Being the last Vampire, the race would become extinct if Kain had sacrificed himself. Though the sacrifice may have restored the Pillars. If new guardians are born, it won't do any good as the humans are not competant enough to serve like Janos said. The Pillars need Vampire guardians to keep the Hylden sealed away. - And of course if Kain refused the sacrifice then it would doom Nosgoth. Which is exactly what happened.

[@BryonYoungblood]

Yeah, and thus giving the Hylden a small victory due to the corruption of the Pillars, which even Kain suffered from the moment of his birth when Nupraptor went insane after the Hylden Lord possessed Mortanius killed Ariel, thus making sure their plans could come together in the long run as their ultimate revenge against the vampires for casting them out of Nosgoth. And Moebius doing all of this thanks to his loyalties to the Elder God, and the Elder God despising vampires for their being cast from the wheel, so he couldn't feed on their souls as he clung to the Wheel of Fate.

[@alessandroguarrera2203]

I just wish they had explained *why* the pillars needed vampire guardians. Was it something to do with the resonance of their souls? Is that why the blood curse was passed on? So many questions, yet it seems the real spanner was Blood Omen 2.

[@chan1x]

@@alessandroguarrera2203 i think because vampire guardians can resist corruption

[@BryonYoungblood]

@@chan1x And that the vampires forged the Pillars after sealing the Hylden away, even as the Hylden cursed them with their immortality, bloodlust, and sterility so new vampires couldn't be born to become guardians to the Pillars.

[@Cephalopod51]

It's even worse when in the first Blood Omen, Mortanius pretty much allowed Moebius to manipulate Kain into changing history without warning. Mortanius seemed to delight in Kain killing Moebius, but never makes mention why he didn't warn Kain about the time streaming device. Retcons from Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance aside, maybe Mortanius just wanted to see how Kain would handle Moebius when the time came. Or maybe having Kain play into Moebius' hands was the only way for Kain to kill him. Of course, Mortanius was manipulated by the Unspoken, and Mortanius varied from being helpful to unhelpful. Still, Mortanius deliberately had Kain killed and resurrected as a vampire just so he could have someone kill the other Guardians. If Mortanius wanted to safeguard the vampires and save the Pillars, he should've given Kain some warning about Moebius and the time streaming device.

[@KyrieFortune]

"Compelling argument, Mortanius, but where is your source that will support it?" "My source is that I made it the fuck up"

[@exandil6029]

Suffer me now!

[@dannybodros5180]

Mortanius was right.

[@BryonYoungblood]

It took longer than he may have hoped for, BUT, he did help set into motion the events that would allow Kain to work to restore balance to the world.

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

Mortanius did nothing wrong

[@Unknown_User174]

⁠@@wikipediaintellectual7088Bullcrap! Although he was possessed by the Hylden Lord, He murdered Ariel, He caused the bandits to kill Kain, And he unfairly punished Malek when it was Moebius who delayed him from reaching the other guardians.

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

@@Unknown_User174 All of these actions are based.

[@BryonYoungblood]

@@wikipediaintellectual7088And the death of Ariel was not of his own volition. Everything was to set Kain down the path to his true destiny, even if Mortanius assumed the Scion of Balance was the vampires’ champion, not something more.

[@lipepsene]

It annoys me how Ariel and mortanius just assume raziel is a hilden and that kain would be altruistic enough to sacrifice his own life to save nosgoth

[@Teixas666]

without added knowledge what else are they to presume? at most they know how vampires in their age are supposed ot look like and raziel doesnt fitthe part, looking more like some sort of demon. if anyone in that time would have na idea of what raziel is would be either Moebius or Azimuth(Guardian of dimensions) and they were too busy effing around , summoning creatures from across time.

[@markgresch9944]

I think there is a flaw in the dialog here. Mortanius says "The Pillars with return to Vampire Gaurdianship as intended" but he knows Moebius has been and is about to wipe out all the vampires except for Kain. Unless he's playing 4 dimensional time chess and figures Kain is going to somehow destroy the pillars, but still prevent their collapse, this line doesn't make sense.

[@BryonYoungblood]

The way Mortanius said it, he believes somehow, Kain would find a way to make other vampires eventually, due to the unique nature of Kain's rebirth via the Heart of Darkness, and how the future Kain could be able to do it from the techniques he learned in the centuries before he began his plans to cast the die against Fate, to change his and Raziel's destinies at great risk.

[@markgresch9944]

@@BryonYoungblood If that is the case then, why set Kain upon the quest to destroy the circle until he knows Kain has made new vampires? He knows Kain has to sacrifice himself to restore his pillar, and without other vampires, there is no way to return the pillars to vampire guardianship. He seems to want to make sure the Hylden aren't released, but eggs the younger Kain on to come to the pillars which will release the Hylden.

[@BryonYoungblood]

@@markgresch9944 My guess is Mortanius just felt he had to cleanse the Circle first to be able to aid Kain. I know it has a bit of a hole in it, but that's my best guess.

[@chuckingreaper8654]

⁠@@markgresch9944 I might be able to answer this. It could be that he assumed Kain was spared Nupraptors madness and could slay every other guardian and sire new vampire guardians after slaying the circle. We did find out Kain was a balance guardian at the end of BO1 after all. Even after Kain rejects the sacrifice, the Pillars aren’t completely destroyed as they are somewhat still sealing most of the Hylden on account of Kain still being alive. There is also the idea that dying might of cured Kain of corruption and him being resurrected with the heart of darkness which has belonged to the original Vampire would indirectly cleanse him, not knowing it was a corruption of the soul, not the flesh.

[@chuckingreaper8654]

@@markgresch9944 Considering even Mortanius was corrupted (and possessed), he didn’t have much time left anyway to insure Kain could sire new vampires (nor would Kain presumably want to on his journey to kill the circle). We catch him on his last leg in Defiance, worst for wear.

[@chrislehan9699]

Wait is he the same as the final boss in the original legacy of Kain blood omen?

[@Kaecyus]

Yes. And when he teleports away he is going to be doing exactly that. His 'atonement' was to suffer a younger Kain's wrath and purify Mortanius' own pillar. Defiance runs along some of the same time period as the original Blood Omen.

[@commandervulkan]

Raziel you dont have to kill Kain but you can throw him in the acid lake

[@mattyslice69]

Didn't Tony Jay, voice of the Elder God, was Mortanius in Blood Omen?

[@JacOfArts]

Yes he was. He was also the voice of William the Just (who Kain calls “the beloved *boy* king) but this version of Mortanius is even cooler, despite how much I respect Jay’s work in these games.

[@AllardRT]

He was, but they decided to recast Mortanius for Defiance because Jay's voice is just too distinct and he already was The Elder God for two more recent games. And I'm glad they did because Alastair Duncan's got one hell of a voice and it's always a joy to hear him make use of it.

[@abysswalker8975]

Heh same voice actor as Celebrimbor in the Shadow of Mordor/War games. I thought he sounded familiar.

[@Micheal007omega]

So..Celebrimbor. Just realized that

[@birduno]

>kain will restore balance someone who hasn't ever paid any attention to kain

[@EmptyMan000]

Indeed, Kain has never given two shits about balance.

[@peterh2828]

Mortanius and Medivh from Warcraft are very similar.

[@ninjyangproductions7696]

Mortanious is a schizo. How ironic... Poteic Truth 😆

[@Darkinu2]

I'm confused... how does he redeem himself here?

[@pencilshavings7461]

Mortanius was pretty much driven by guilt to create Kain. He started a rebellion with Moebius against the ancient vampires; therefore dooming Nosgoth to the hylden by the humans hand. Plus he murdered Ariel; whether he was posessed during this action is hard to say.

[@malcolmwright5793]

The hylden claim that they orchestrated Ariel's death, they may have been influencing the gaurdians without their knowing.

[@Teixas666]

He raised Kain as a Vampire by using Janos's heart(a Ancient Vampire) this means that the pillar of balance now had a Vampire guardian as it was meant to be but he didnt completely suceed Kain was still affected by Nuprator's madness and vas visible ot the EG(as he was not a creature of free will)

[@JacOfArts]

@@pencilshavings7461 as far as I can tell, this was done on purpose so that the pillars would choose Kain as the guardian of the pillar of balance after he was resurrected.

[@JacOfArts]

To my understanding, Mortanius was the only pillar guardian to know and accept that the pillars rightfully belonged to the vampires. By killing Ariel, Kain would be selected as the new balance guardian, and by sending Kain down upon the other guardians, the choice to either: accept the sacrifice to rejuvenate the pillars, or refuse the sacrifice and force them to crumble, fell upon Kain when all the other pillar guardians were slain. Refusing the sacrifice apparently gave Kain in his new eternal life time to discover what his fate was and allow him to finish Mortanius’s work, which in turn was really always Janos and Vorador’s work.

[@crimsondynamo615]

#mortaniusdidnothingwrong

[@Cephalopod51]

While the voice actor for Mortanius in Defiance performs well, I still wish Tony Jay returned to voice Mortanius as he did in Blood Omen. It would've confused players, but Tony Jay's voice was made for Mortanius as much as it was made for the Elder God. Tony Jay after all also voiced William the Just and some other NPCs in Blood Omen, as well as Zephon in Soul Reaver, so I don't see why couldn't have voiced Mortanius again. Sometimes I wonder if the Elder God was originally planned to be once the soul of Mortanius that mutated into a godlike monstrosity, or had merged with the Unspoken somehow. It would've been appropriate, since it would imply that Mortanius and the Unspoken were still trying to manipulate events, even beyond death.

[@SokinRidis]

Quiet head