Legacy Update/Future of D-R-Academy/AMMO

[@boinqity4621]

i think it would be cool if they added a "low nitra" modifier

[@benediktos_13]

Try using Mission Content Randomiser mod, there is one

[@Houstonruss]

@@benediktos_13 THE UNSTABLE CAVE ANOMALY ON HAZ 5 CARETAKER MISSION True Fear!

[@benediktos_13]

@@Houstonruss It hurts to see one, actually. I tried this only once on haz 4 with a friend, and it ended with both of us having a furious attack of topographic cretinism, after which we died ignominiously in some remote corner of the cave. The constant stream of bugs didn't help much in this situation either. Never again.

[@01eksii]

Well I would like more something like custom difficulty level above fifth, with a whole bunch of sliders where I can regulate nitra amount, enemy roster, special enemy spawn chance, , speed, damage etc.

[@boinqity4621]

@@01eksii thats a genuinely insane amount of shit to ask a small dev team like gsg, and they have already explained multiple times there wont be any more difficulties added

[@Goblin_Tank]

I miss the low nitra stress. I remember barely surviving and the thrill of barely pulling the mission off.

[@SaM97410L0L]

An old strategy was to create a flying platform so that no one could touch you. no mactera = no problem

[@theepicduck6922]

That's nuts. Gotta admit That's interesting.

[@halfwithero5368]

*An

[@bricklegends6103]

I love the positive outlook! I do think the devs should add a haz 6 that limits nitra and has insane swarms though.

[@user-pc5sc7zi9j]

or another long-leg glyphid grunt subtype you can't easily outrun and kite.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

The power creep is bound to happen eventually

[@Robinson_Crusoe]

My only issue with DRG is that it lacks a real end game challenge mode. You don't really need much team play or cooperation to do hazard 5. You can even have your entire build be randomly generated and not struggle much, if at all. Perhaps not many people really want this, but i wish for a difficulty or mode that allows you and 3 other players to really use and rely on the teamwork and build aspect of the game, to give it your all, come up with clever strategies and solutions on the fly and then have a round of wacky beers at the end. Currently, only elite dives have some of this, though not because they are hard, but because of the "you can lose it all" factor.

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

Could not agree more. Back then, you HAD to have that level of cooperation or you would fail. It's how I ended up finding friends to play with consistently. It was so rewarding when it worked because it was forced coop. Now I don't even need a scout in my party. That was not the way it used to be. I understand the reasoning behind making the game easier and it makes sense, but there is nothing endgame wise to really challenge us and keep players playing all day. We don't need tougher enemies even, we just need more forced coop. Instead of people speed running everything in 7 minutes with no secondaries done lol

[@theepicduck6922]

Looking forward to it. Not the biggest grey beard but I belive my green beard has fallen by now or been ripped off by now.

[@VienerSchnitzel69]

I just started grinding deep rock again after not having played since around its initial early access release. My friends and I grinded for *weeks* and could only rarely get through haz 5. I came back and tried haz 5 expecting the same experience, dying after making it pretty far due to lack of ammo. Boy was I in for a trip. I honestly think the game is somewhat better for it, high cave/mission complexity + haz 5 is still a challenge.

[@pocketbarrels]

With how GSG progressed with the game, it was the only way they could make it to continue to grow... thank goodness for modding support to give more power to players. The legacy will make a fun nostalgic addition, but there's no way myself and a couple friends would have played it as much if DRG didn't change as much as it has. Having that spectrum of being able to keep it casual or going for pure hell makes it so it fits anyone's playstyle. Haz5 can still be hell... do a complete RNG of loadouts and go to it 🤣

[@AlexMint]

I wonder if there are any mods that will actually randomize a loadout.

[@thecrazypain9978]

According to my achievements I have played since May of 2019, it'll be interesting to play even before I played deep rock. Even if when legacy comes not many players try it, it'll be an interesting experience to test my fundamental understanding of the game, you will see me in the current version of the game getting praised because I carried a mission, but I wonder if that is just the version of the game, or I just have played for so long, my muscle memory is so good I can play even on older legacy builds without fail. September 26th 2019 was Endgame part 1, and November 21st 2019 was Endgame part 2, now that I think of it, I'm more of a greybeard than I thought, the only reason why I don't quite remember the experience is because I had only played 100 hours on my family's account, now I have my own account

[@thecrazypain9978]

You can get an idea of how the game played back when the deep dives were first released through USteppin's channel, he has videos on all of the deep dives starting from week 1, or at least I think it's all of them.

[@Autogyro.001]

Okay, I had no idea that the legacy build was coming, so I'm glad you posted this! And I'm at that point where most of my crew has stopped playing this game, and I was looking around wondering what I actually *wanted* to do next in DRG. And I'd love to know more about strategies (as opposed to tactics). I'm so slow that I have to think to make up for it, and the more I know, the better, and still so few content creators make any videos about how a whole team should play together... So, yeah. I'm psyched for what you come up with next.

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

Exactly, once the speedrunning grind is over, it's kind of boring. Play this way, and I promise it will be quite the experience. Nobody can possibly beat the ammo meta. Every build is viable when you can spam ammo lol

[@01eksii]

I noticed it to, earlier no ammo cycle overload hog or just overusing Fatboy would have left me ammoless, now I can freely dump whole two mags into crowd/beefy guys weak points or nuke all map

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

My experience so far in the game (and I started last week) overall was pretty much that, those times we were tight on nitra, the reasons were closer to: calling the supplies too early and having to run all the way back through a vertical cave to use those or waste them, pushing our ammo reserves very far before calling in supplies and then struggling to get that late drop in, or we got caught fighting a boss we didn't know how to fight as a team of greenbeards and somehow everyone forgot to pick up nitra, usually the host before the rest of us joined in and none of the late joiners considered backtracking for ammo and instead came down to fighting with pickaxes. There are those few times I had a greybeard join on Haz 3 and they were usually calling in a lot more resupplies than I usually saw with just other fellow greenbeards, pretty much that already gave me a lesson on paying more attention on ammo and nitra and exploiting the resource more before ammo becomes too low to survive the wait and collecting a hastily called in resupply.

[@LordRazer3]

Wasn't the most resent increase in Nitra a bug? Cues there still feels like there's higher amounts of Nitra some times there there's any right to be

[@williamlohrmann2021]

Modded deep rock is another way, we do haz 4 with like 500 bugs cap, and its nuts. The ammo economy is vital and any non-fear-based builds tend to just die.

[@AlmostJordan]

I think this game is awesome because I get to crunch numbers. I have every dwarf filled in with each build slots and I have them categorized to use different weapons within the build. AND I have them fashioned out to the build fantasy. I’ve been trying so many builds people sleep on, and do quite well. Something like the M1000 with electric focus shots along with a fire shotgun. Or my fav gunner build where the new pistol allows fire and status buildup in an area…so I run neurotoxin payload and BOOM triple status that applies to aoe crowds. My point is that I think the fun comes in the combination of players you meet. You got guys with 2k hours that might match up with someone who has played the game for 4 hours. And a lot of the experience comes with the enjoyment comes from not only new players meeting old. But old teaching new and honoring those who got them to that point.

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

This is something seriously overlooked and I could not agree more. Skill is sometimes TIME spent with a build. I can tell you with full confidence that I have met some of the most amazing deep rock players in my time. I've learned from them just playing with them once. It's always someone using a weird build and yet very effective with it. I think spending time with a build makes you good with it, and it's not call of duty where damage and recoil means the weapon sucks. The developers made these weapons viable. So they are viable. Just because a person isn't good with it, doesn't mean it's bad for everyone else on the planet. Although that does seem to be the mindset of people. "I used this weapon once. It's bad. Everybody else don't use it because it's bad" 🤷‍♂️ There's a lot to be learned from other players in Deep Rock. So many great builds that nobody uses 🤦🏿‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤦‍♀️

[@TheStarMachine2000]

Yeah! ROCK AND STONE!

[@linear1224]

So what your saying is that I can use a resupply if I've got nearly full ammo, but low health and no red sugar in sight, is that correct?

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

Only when we have lots of nitra which should be almost always if you're playing with me 🙂 I drop tons of ammo in my missions so people can always be ready to go. Usually when at 2 bars during the beginning then based on how much we have I drop it more frequently if able. Then we usually end up with hundreds by the end that I drop all at once so people know how many bubble shields, grenades, or yes health they can use up.

[@linear1224]

@@TheLegendOfFLG Sweet, so in the beginning of the mission the first few resupply pods are only used when you are at 2 bars, then once the team is more established with a much larger nitra pool to play with you can use it for whatever you need at the time (keeping in mind resupply etiquette) like extra ammo for any category of your choice and if your desperate and need to get out of a death loop, even extra health. Was that correct or did I miss something important?

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

@linear1224 Yup, that's dead on. It's a little tricky counting how many to use, and it feels weird calling so much. It's just a matter of looking ahead at the extraction and using what you have to get there so as to not have 240 nitra AT the extraction pod lol Do this for a while and suddenly you will realize that most builds people use are too ammo conservative because nobody values nitra enough. Mainly because the grind is more of a speedrun grind, which is not nitra focused. But once you're done speed running, this is a great way to change up the gameplay experience👍

[@linear1224]

@@TheLegendOfFLG Nice!

[@catabel5375]

Look, I've been playing just as long as you. I get, early h5 was bonkers, we lived from resup to resup, failure was always gripping at your heels. These days, players are better, there is more ammo, ammo greedy builds are more common in h5. That being said, taking more then your fair share of ammo in a non emergency is viable, but its not very fair. Other folks wanna use their fun builds too! Even if i'm carrying with LSLS max dmg madness, like. . the greenbeard scout with no oc's still deserves their share of the ammo, even if they aren't going to be as efficient with it as I would. . Many folks know ammo has been called, and are out trying to get to 50% on everything before resupping, like a responsible dwarf, so taking one that people 'forgot' isn't very nice either, because maybe they were relying on that, and coming back to nothing, means they kinda just gotta sit back and do nothing until the next resup. If someone wants an absurd amount of ammo go play solo and spam grenades to your hearts content! That is some good fun for sure, even in duos where you showed off using it, I guess its ok, if people know whats going on, but idk. . it just feels gross to me tbh.

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

I appreciate the comment but your missing a couple crucial things here. I actually want everyone to use more ammo, more shields, more everything. not just 1 person in the group. Secondly you are never, ever taking someone else's ammo when you have 4 unused resupplies. Thirdly, you're wasting the 240 and sometimes more nitra at the end of the mission, It's much more efficient if everybody uses up that extra nitra during the mission. Im literally using everything in the cave and people have an issue with it as if im the one wasting it. When in fact you're wasting ammo if your not using everything you have. Hoarding ammo like that is not as fun nor nearly as effective as spamming ammo and using as much as possible. Everyone gets to pull as much ammo as needed, so i'm not sure how there is any problem at all if you have nearly infinite ammo. There is no problem. Ammo hoarding is so not fun. Count how many bubble shields in your next mission and then count how many resupplies where called. It's almost always 3 or 4 shields to the 16 possible shields. This is in fact, the most effective way to utilize ammo and builds to make missions easier. Otherwise you are wasting ammo, and playing with less effective builds because of it.

[@catabel5375]

​@@TheLegendOfFLG I guess I just don't see this problem in the lobbies i've been playing in, the only time I see 240 nitra is the end of an industral sabo or salvage? Normally those are GOOD reasons to horde ammo for the more intense parts of those missions. Any other mission, 100 is the highest I see before a few folks need refreshing. The lobbies I am in rarely have extra nitra and certainly not to the degree you're talking about, more then often we are scraping the walls for an extra 8 to get a final resup before leaving. No shame here, but lower hazards might have this problem more often? Or playing with a team that always brings ultra ammo efficient builds? I personally try very hard to use 50% of all my resources every resup. I use power over ammo builds, so I kinda have to keep an eye on my resources to not over exert ammo. But you're right, sometimes there simply aren't enough applicable situations to use things like drills or ziplines all the way down to 50% every time, but everything else? Even bubbles, I toss those first two quickly and hold those last two for really dire situations.

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

@@catabel5375 EXACTLY! this is exactly what i'm talking about. Your are the perfect example of everyone's experience being different then mine. We actually agree quite a bit here. The reason why there isn't as much nitra is because nobody is playing using nitra gain strategies that we used to use for EDDS back in the day. Because you don't NEED to anymore. So of course nobody is experiencing tons of ammo at the end of every mission. Its not required at all. I experience this for all my missions, haz 5 is all I play. This is my experience for about 3 solid years of deep rock now. The difference is that I play with a team from the old days who understands the value of moving quickly to save on ammo, and gathering nitra so fast as to not waste ammo on the time to get it, thus maximizing the total amount of nitra you can have in any mission. Luckily, I have a few consistent teams that play this way and we always have stupid amounts of nitra. I noticed consistently having way too much at the end of missions. So I started using more during it and its been eye opening how it changes your build mods and play style. I actually did a double warning only using the gunners coil gun recently. Didn't even use my primary because we had so much ammo. It was ridiculous and lots of fun. So I agree with you! especially on the 50% part, I cannot say enough how important that is. otherwise you're wasting it, grab ammo at 2 bars and make sure the 2 bars represents 50% of your ammo. I have an entire video on this exact subject called "the rule of two". I even go as far as to say don't double dip unless there is tons of ntira. So we are on the same page here. It's understandable that people will be skeptical, nobody is experiencing hoards of nitra if they aren't trying to. But if you try to, you can and will consistently have way more than enough for every mission type. A major part of my series will be doing every single mission as a gameplay example with a full group, using these methods and having stupid amounts of ammo and crazy builds to go along with them. I hope your there for them because it's all the proof you need that this is plausible and entirely within the limits of deep rocks ammo mechanics. It just means doing missions specifically, not skipping hallways leaving nitra behind, not doubling back, excellent platform and scout lighting skills. All of these things combined is what used to get us through missions, but now it just ends up gathering tons of nitra. So i've found a use for the extra nitra since regular builds still don't use enough for what we have. Sorry for the rant, but this is something i'm passionate about showing the community. As much flak as I am taking from people, in reality I am just utilizing as much ammo as possible, not wasting ammo as people seem to think I'm doing. Ironically it's the opposite, I think people are doing the very thing I am getting accused of 🤣

[@catabel5375]

@@TheLegendOfFLG Please do a video on how you use Nitra on missions, I feel like this is going over my head or i'm missing something fundamental here. Thank you for talking with me ^^

[@abrahamtan5766]

my only concern with your proposed strategy is having to convince everyone to move fast quite curious but interesting strategy :v

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

Thanks for sticking with me. Being skeptical makes sense! It pushes people to focus on role efficiency and also a methodical approach to missions. Always clearing one room a certain and way then moving onto next. The right people building pipelines instead of the wrong people. Those types of things add up to a lot of extra nitra very quickly when things are getting done lightening fast. Suddenly you've got 1 extra supply, then another. And it stacks even more for dives. I've had 900+ nitra on 3rd stages this way. Admittedly, it's only a handful of times, but usually, it's 5-700 even with calling ammo to get there. Can't wait to show the potential and consistency of this. Doesn't have to be for everyone, but it's so fun when you can spam bubble shields and satchels and not run out. Not to mention nukes and grenades or the rest of your mods that you choose. You can even give up that extra ammo bag for more damage. If you choose to. As far as getting other people to do it, im going to make a discord for people to play together doing this. So at least you can try it. Hopefully that will be a large enough number to find groups to play with 👍

[@Alienoiable]

I think you got quite a bit of things wrong right off the start - no offence. When talking about the Legacy version, it will be the game as it was around U9-U11. - The Deep Dives were introduced back in U25 but the mineral trade had been in the same since U12. - The game was actually way easier back then : less warnings, no haz 5, praetorians having 2 times less HP (!), most of the enemy variety was actually absent (not even macteras were there). - Overclocks weren't necessary back there (and still aren't) to complete higher difficulties. - Dreadnought couldn't even dig at the time. - Nitra generation wasn't that different. I think you were just not experienced enough at the time ^^

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

🤣how incredibly condescending and inaccurate. No offense. The FEB 2018 launch was U7, not speaking about what version they will launch. I am speaking about my journey from beg to now and how many changes the game has made. The deep dive context was quite clear and not about when they got introduced. Its when I describe the difference of difficulty and nitra amounts and how that relates to my gameplay style. The mineral trader was introduced in U12....so that means before 12 it wasn't there.... just like I said in the video. Not sure what point you thought you were making there. Grinding minerals was harder without the mineral trader. So grinding took longer. So when Dives came out, we needed those extra rewards, since we didn't have a plethora of minerals from being able to buy them from gold. meaning if you didn't play certain biomes, you didn't have certain minerals. So dives are even more important for the grind, especially compared to today with all the rewards from assignments. You watched this video right? "The game was actually way easier back then : less warnings, no haz 5, praetorians having 2 times less HP " The game WAS NOT easier back then. You do not know what your talking about and I suspect weren't there yourself based on that comment alone. The terrain, the perks, the balancing, was all not tweaked to perfection yet. The game would often spawn hundreds of grunts on haz 3 and wouldn't stop. Or fall damage would be a killer because the cave designs were brutal. Also "more difficult" doesn't mean damage, that's very narrow minded of you. Cave layouts and nitra amounts combined with an unbalanced game can make it difficult. Especially when cave leeches grab you through walls. Not to mention the weapons are not the same with actual mods being different and going through the various tweaks they have over the years. With the perks going through a similar process. "most of the enemy variety was actually absent (not even macteras were there)" Yeah I was there so... I know. Thanks though? "overclocks aren't necessary" well aren't' you just a PRO. Not once in this video did I say they are necessary nor imply it so I'm not sure what your point is here. Overclocks are in context to grinding for gear which was the context of the video. Honestly I try to be understanding but its like people hear words and just make up their own context. "Dreadnought couldn't even dig" and your point is? "nitra generation wasn't that different" Yes...Yes it was. And it makes all the difference. As far as not being experienced enough, i'm not sure how much more experience you can have other than playing the game literally as it became available. I was one of the first people to actually play this game. I must be sooo inexperienced😂 I'm not sure what possessed you to type out this comment but I do appreciate it since it helps the algo. Please do respond and keep this going so more people see this video :) Thanks for the support and entertaining comment.

[@matsurischlaagen1757]

@@TheLegendOfFLG You meant all the offense, don't lie lmao

[@porksoda2072]

i hope i'll never encounter people like you who called/supped just when they ran out of nade.

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

Please do me a favor and block my gamertag so we never run into each other. I can't stand players who waste ammo. I like to actually use it.

[@boinqity4621]

i hope ill never encounter people like you who end the mission with 200 nitra in reserve 🤡🤡🤡

[@p_serdiuk]

Unused nitra at the end of a mission is your wasted time.

[@coltranebartlett590]

While on the whole I think youre right I think generalizing that every failed mission now happens because of poor teamplay is silly. I lost a mission the other day because there was only 160 nitra across the entire map on an industrial sabotage mission. Haz 5. Thats not just a low amount of nitra, that's an unbeatable amount of it!

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

I didn't say now, I said it used to be that way. This game had forced coop, meaning that if you weren't working together, you would fail. Or if you didn't have a scout in the party, you wouldn't be able to gather nitra fast enough since there wasn't enough nitra back then. Now it's NOT that way. I'm sorry but the caves generate more nitra then what you had. No offense it's just not possible within the algorithm used to spawn nitra in Deep Rock. It's been increased actually, which is my point here. There was tunnels missed, corners not lit up. Those missions specifically generate tons of ammo. Also the more ambushes during the mission you fight the less ammo you have. Which means the longer it takes the team takes to do things, the more ammo will be spent. I did a haz 5 industrial in 17 minutes, both power cells done at the same time, and battery phase instantly skipped due to satcheling the top. Was able to do that because we had so much ammo that the driller could use an entire resupply for just satchels. Making the caretaker fight take about 5 minutes. I will of course do a gameplay for every mission proving you can have stupid amounts of ammo if you move quick and clear rooms properly. A single flare in a corner isn't very efficient, same with people who don't explore every single tunnel as that's where the nitra may be hiding.

[@coltranebartlett590]

@@TheLegendOfFLG Nah, we searched the cave from top to bottom. There weren't even any lootbugs either, it was very wack.

[@shadowxgames3606]

@@coltranebartlett590 Perhaps you were just very unlucky.

[@lexycore1570]

Oh wow, at least you're cropping my username but hear me out. You only have a bunch of nitra after literally scrapping any minerals inside the cave and for me I play fast haz 5 mission cuz that's how I enjoy the game . But telling people to not take sup just for nade and only nade is outright wrong? if you stay longer inside a mission to mine every nook and cranny for nitra or gold or all of the minerals that exist , an ambience swarm will come and drain your ammo while increasing the chance of you or your team making mistake cuz more bugs to shoot, you can grab sup just for nade only if you're having a bunch load of nitra and mining all of those nitra without scout / epc driller will take some time. Not to mention not everyone in the lobby are experienced enough to do their job effectively most newer player are more prone to make some critical mistakes. Finishing the mission faster will reduce that kind of inherent risk and at the same time being super efficient with your time/resource/and xp. This game aren't the same game like 4 years ago the playerbase has changed the meta has changed everything's different now, so dyed that so called ancient beard of yours and adapt, I'm lvl 1k+ so I experience some horror in hoxxes.

[@TheLegendOfFLG]

Listen, you're not even wrong, about some things. The grind of deep rock is NOT what I'm talking about. Doing what I'm saying is not how to run through missions if you're getting assignments done quickly. So I don't know how clear I can be about that. This isn't for speed running. But once you have 30 million gold, 40k of every mineral with 300 plus blank matrix cores (yeah, I'm experienced too), then speed running is giving you virtually no reward. So the gameplay is the experience. Making for more fun games with builds that kill enemies so fast that haz 5 feels like haz 3. You're right about the time mechanic to get the nitra, except wrong about how having more nitra effects the outcome. Yes it can actually cost ammo to find nitra since you're fighting ambushes or swarms while doing it. However, 2 things missed here. Firstly, if your nitra gathering skills are good, this doesn't take long. That's kind of the entire point, clear rooms lightning fast. Secondly, since you have tons of ammo, you can use builds that you're not using currently since you don't have the ammo for it as speedrunners never can. So now killing enemies is extremely fast and efficient, and no matter how bad the mission gets, we have enough ammo to deal with anything and everything. So, while you believe that it's less risky to rush, I believe the opposite. It's less risky to just have ammo and deal with any problem easily. Especially considering the build time to kill differences based on ammo gain strategies. Using builds made for ammo and then using up all the ammo in the cave is objectively not wasting ammo. It's actually utilizing everything in the cave to maximize your effectness as where your comment suggestion would be in fact wasting ammo, since if I didn't take the extra for nades, the ammo would have been left behind after extraction. It's literally the worst advice. Leave ammo behind and waste it, as where i'm telling everyone to use it and make the missions easier. Now, considering your initial comment was on me wasting grenades, I think that's a pretty hypocritical thing to say. Since leaving it behind IS THE WASTE. Especially considering in my gameplay clips, everyone was full, and there was still ammo left over at extraction. Therefore, it's a mathematically incorrect statement to say I'm wasting or stealing any ammo at all since there was still ammo at extraction with us all full. Speed running and going on very little ammo isentry-level deep rock play. Use the nitra to make beastly builds and don't waste ammo by actually using it up instead of leaving it behind. Skipping rooms of nitra because it takes too long is a skill issue. The entire point of the time mechanic is to maximize it to your benefit through solid team work and room clearing skills. I still compelte missions fast because we are moving fast. Speedrunning has almost no reward other then experience points once you own all the overclocks. It's boring and ends up nowhere, but the same experiences over and over with weak builds since a speedrunner can never match the ammo output of my builds. It's strange that you wouldn't want to try and at least elevate your gameplay from grinding missions to experiencing missions at their full potential. That is, full nitra potential, full build potential. Instead, you think speedrunning is the only way, and went as far as to suggest I'm the one wasting ammo. If you are leaving nitra behind, it's you that are in fact, wasting ammo. Not me, who didn't even use it all in the very clip you originally commented on. One last thing, how would you know about meta since you can't possibly have the damage output I have with the nitra I have? Meta is based on most effective, most effective is going to have a high dps. There is, in fact, no way you can compete with being able to double dip for nukes and grenades. It's a mathematical impossibility since you are dealing with a weapon mag, and I'm dealing with so much ammo that I can spam it, not to mention change the mods on the build. It seems that one of us is playing at a higher level here, the meta being ammo. And the other is too set in their ways. Listen, play how you want, I don't care. But telling me I'm wasting ammo when you're leaving nitra behind is so hypocritical. You don't have to play that way fine, but saying I'm taking too much when there is some leftover is nonsensical. Maybe you could learn something from my upcoming ammo gain strategy videos. Instead of suggesting I don't know what I'm doing.

[@lexycore1570]

​@@TheLegendOfFLG first of all thanks for making me read an entire essay(I'm gonna make one myself), 2nd of all in the nade video you were joining a late salvage mission with an experienced player so the guy in that mission already farm everything and you just camp the triangulation calling sup and frantically throwing nade everywhere in that scenario yes it's absolutely fine not using any of your gun's resource outside your nade nobody will complain, also there is a lining between playing "fast" and speedrun I'm not a speedrunner I just love to rush. Calling speedrunning is entry level of deep rock is a huge huge understatement I know some speedrunners and they spend hours of hours perfecting the run and I'm giving them the respect for dedication that they're doing. Fun is a very subjective topic , for me I just like the fresh experience of entering a new cave conquer that cave and finish the mission. By doing it on a repeat my muscle memory and brain adapt to a new cave faster and faster hence I subconsciously play faster and more efficient playing fast is not the only way for me to enjoy the game I still play and goof around with my friends. I still mine any minerals that I stumble into or that I see but not literally searching for every corner of the cave not only is boring which again very subjective also it's a waste of time. Why would you mine so much when you can do the objective and keep shooting more bugs especially if you already have enough nitra to wipe multiple waves since in most of my time playing this game finishing the mission with 2 - 3 sups is more than enough even if you play with the worse ammo economy build available like (max dmg scc, fatboy,max dmg bertha,and max dmg this or that),see the fun factor for different people is different and you just seem to ignore that. Your entire argument is based on a perfect scenario where you think that a lvl 8 player would understand every aspect of teamwork in a game that they just play and you can't say that a lvl 8 greenbeard having a skill issue if they can't clear the mid - big size cave fast especially in haz 5 where they're still struggling to stay alive, if you're playing scout sure you can do it on your own but how about if you play something like gunner ?? will you able to reach that multiple nitra vein in a ceiling over and over again ? oh yea guess what you gonna call sup just for zipline only obviously cuz you want to maximize "full nitra potential". This will teach greenies cuz they look at you and be like "hey this guy call sup just because their traversal tool is out" and proceed to do this on other people lobby only to get kicked for griefing/trolling this is a reality that modern deep rock is facing you can't just make a video and expect every people will play with your methodology and your way of teaching. Don't get me wrong I'm glad that there are drg content creator that teaches new player about this game mechanic, strat, and etc but this "full nitra potential" stuff approach is not healthy for most pubs experience many more people will absolutely hates playing with new player if they're doing the stuff that you are suggesting without the entire context or executing it properly. How I know about meta ? well it's simple , any oc or build that gets heavily suggested by literally most of the playerbase will give you an understanding on which one is objectively good. But then my main build aren't even considered meta but I still cakewalk haz5 / 6 mission with it. Like your CB autocannon build it's a good swarm killing build (I still prefer the higher RoF instead of the RoF growth but both upgrade have their own merit) but it heavily get outclassed by NTP in most aspect. Meta is not equal to ammo how would you explain something like embedded dets ? it doesn't have a lot of ammo but that and hipster are the classic haz 5 pubber scout meta, also how about inferno breach ? it doesn't add anything regarding ammo but it's technically one of the strongest breach build available, BoM/AISE on gk2 people nowadays always take dmg mod instead of ammo mod with it, LSLS obviously going for max dps, and the list goes on. I never said that you don't know what you're doing, it's just taking sup just to refill one specific thing that out of ammo makes me feel uncomfortable yes you might have literally quadrillion sup enough to make a proxi mine death trap but at the same time hyperprop / overdrive booster exist making the dread fight much faster, easier, and can be satisfying to burst down that tanky bugs.