Legion Imperialis..... I Have My Concerns

[@TheOuterCircle]

Revision note: we were way out on the price estimate. Turns out the drop pods are in sets of 4, so it actually works out closer to €900 if you want to build the Blood Angels force, my mistake.....

[@doctoronishispsychosislab1474]

where do i find the prices plz

[@TheOuterCircle]

@@doctoronishispsychosislab1474 certain stockists have been given them, and that's how I got my information.

[@sleeplepeople7313]

This is insane. And they wonder why so many printers go brrrrrrrrr. God GW are morons. Worse will be when they drag out the release so that you only get your full army after 5 bloody years. Look at the HH release. Still no bloody despoilers or even assault marines? They can’t produce fast enough. This will die in days. Not weeks, but days.

[@morgymomo8535]

As a titanicus player I am very excited, adeptus titanicus is a fun game with exceptionably detailed miniatures. The game get in wasn't to bad for 312NZD you could get 2 reavers, 2 warhounds and 2 lancers. (directly from gw), and even cheaper from other places. But if it costs me 2000NZD to get one full army? count me out. As always a great video, wanna say thank you for always providing a realistic view of the game, and not just praising gw unnecessarily.

[@skywatcheradept]

Titanicus rules look much better than Legions Imperialis imo

[@combatwombat2134]

Titanicus is excellent and the Warmaster looks the absolute bomb and is one of the nicest models I've ever built. I'm hoping the rules transfer across okay (I presume it isn't just copy past Titanicus into Epic and they'll have Epic rules sheets?) and there can be these excellent fights with huge armies with Aeronautica, Titanicus and Epic. Hey, maybe even Battlefleet Gothic. A man can dream.

[@marcmiddleton2277]

@combatwombat2134 They stated somewhere the Titan rules are simplified. You are more of the overall battle commander, less worried on managing the details of the titans systems.

[@combatwombat2134]

@@marcmiddleton2277 that's better, I think. I really like the damage table system for Titanicus proper but for a wider game that's much better.

[@Pikkabuu]

@@combatwombat2134 GW already previewed the titan rules for the new epic. The rules have been simplified and IMO don't look as fun as AT.

[@samsolopeeps]

As a young lad the reason I chose Epic was that it did seem affordable to get a lot.

[@tomgardner2253]

Epic was my game as a lad. I remember going into GW and getting two metal shadow sword tanks for £8.00!!

[@richardbradley2335]

The little infantry boxes...crammed full of stuff and cheap...even in the late ninties

[@DoddyIshamel]

​@richardbradley2335 Even then GWs bad practices were evident. Infantry box that gave you 2 stands of a 4 stand unit, 2 stands of a 6 stand unit and 3 stands of a 4 stand unit etc. I remember well my disappointment realising I had to buy 2 more boxes to use all the little guys .... Though GW did bundle back then.

[@richardbradley2335]

Yeah i remember that but they were still bloody cheap.

[@moleculeman27]

At this point, anyone who doesn't expect GW to fail to support a specialist game simply isn't paying attention.

[@darnokx9277]

You mean like Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Adeptus Titanicus, Warcry, Kill Team... all of which got continued support over their current lifespan, and still get to this day? Aeronautica Imperialis is the ugly exception here, not the rule.

[@oga-booga]

​@@darnokx9277adeptus titanicus does not belong on that list. All the other ones did get support but AT and AI both got terrible support.

[@CrusadiaIX]

Warcry literally just received like four full warbands back to back, if that’s not support I dunno what is

[@darnokx9277]

@@oga-booga ATs support might not be AMAZING, but it sure is far from "terrible". I don't know what you are expecting if "AT = terrible support" is your benchmark.

[@oga-booga]

@@darnokx9277 AT had one kitt a year att one point, it was terrible compared to all the other specialist games.

[@BreakfastwithBando]

Brother sergeant Auspex scanners detect no lies in this transmission.

[@DarkKnightCuron]

Fancy seeing you here! :D

[@BreakfastwithBando]

brother i live inside maccas walls hes paid multiple exterminators to bug bomb me out but im just too dug in @@DarkKnightCuron

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

You describing the tank assembly gave me flashbacks to assembling Necron warriors when I first entered the hobby. 💀💀💀💀

[@Neverwinter27]

Download the scanned rules from somewhere and 3D print everything and be done with it.

[@Oliveracc]

Fine for skinflint middle aged oddballs, normal people will buy the minis and support GW.

[@Neverwinter27]

@@Oliveraccwhat normal people? Who’s going to sustain this game for the foreseeable future on 3 laters of niche at the price GW demands? Full on fantasy land.

[@knoxminis1211]

Bang on regarding the printing. I have all of the STLs. I’ll get the main box for the rules and to have a better idea of the scale. I also already and a Patreon of Grimdark Terrain, and will be printing that.

[@ethanr7378]

I agree i was excited cause i thought this would be cheap than found out 1 thunderhawk was sold for aronautica for $50 us and now i feel this will be really expensive and i should just wait for plastic melee in the spring buy some of the new mkIII marines make dispoiler squads for my world eaters army im building and that'll probably be cheaper

[@ScreamingTc]

I was really looking forward to Imperialis, until they announced that some units would be coming in mixed unit boxes. You're going to have to pay for units you aren't needing for the ones you do, and you'll almost certainly pay for more than one box to get the numbers you do need. It's such a cynical move on GW's part.

[@Ungantor]

I mean... The opposite would be how they run 40k marines, where a single specialised character costs £35 quid, and GW gives themselves massive economy of scale problems 'by accident' yet again. Combo boxes were how classic epic always was... And, hey, ebay is your freind, if you only want certain units. Anything that can be split can be found for cheap. 👌

[@cad687]

​@Ungantor or and crazy idea here I know but hear me out..GW could...not greedily grab for every single possible penny to the point they continue killing their community . Crazy idea I know

[@Ungantor]

@@cad687 Entirely fair. Unfortunately I don't think things are going to change as it stands, though. They seem pretty set on running things like an MMO, despite the fact those things rarely last four-five years at best. CEOs love planting beloved properties straight through the concrete. It's just how those souless cretins operate.

[@stephendrobinski2426]

Assault on Black Reach starter set released at 60 USD, and was the last time GW had a reasonable priced starter set.

[@sonsofisstvan1675]

The good old days

[@robertjokebr1480]

my first box of warhammer 40k was the dark vengeance... for me was quite a good deal. but after that it only got worse and worse.

[@DarkKnightCuron]

I remember those days.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

For me it was the Necromunda box set.

[@reginlief1]

The number one killer of my interest for this game is the 30K setting. I like some imperial factions, but I like Xenos just as much, and them having no presence in both heresy and this just loses a lot of appeal that the 40K setting has for me.

[@chaseherrington]

Home brew it! I already see this as a game to be played at a local shop with narrative storytelling

[@The-Avien]

@@chaseherringtonthe issue is the lack of minis unless you have a 3D printer

[@XTROOPERS9]

Youre 100% right. Can confirm 100% that stuff is not included in the main book. The White Dwarf article says (and I'm paraphrasing) "the jetbikes and droppods used in the battle reportw rules are in the first Campaign book called The Great Slaughterer". Its on the first page of the LImp article in the bottom right. So you're spot on about that and how ridiculous it is that GW decided on that path.

[@TheOuterCircle]

This is going to be a problem, and I'm going to say I called it early. We also got the price wrong, as we just found out there are only 4 drop pods in the pack, meaning it's closer to 900 euros for that BA army.

[@wildkatze69]

Just to be correct they say 'supplement' not 'book'

[@Filmmaster91]

When I first saw this game announced I was, for the first time in a very long time, actually excited for a new GW project. I LOVE my Adeptus Titanicus models, and even though I’ve gone nearly five years with only not so committed opponent (two as of very recently) they are the one collection that I will never sell, even if I have to start travelling some serious distance to make use of them. I already have two large armies printed for fan-made Legions Imperialis rules long before it was even hinted as a possibility, which I figured were there ready to go. And despite this… I doubt if I’ll end up even buying the rulebook to use my existing armies at this rate. The long delay is one thing, but if they’re already splitting out the core rules into multiple books before the game even has a release date… and Titanicus has already gotten pricy enough that I can’t really justify adding more to my collection, but fucking hell - €750 for an army? With the average model being the size of dice? It was already going to be damn near impossible to establish or find a worthwhile local community. Most of the range obviously already exist as stls - assuming they haven’t succeeded in decimating these - but that isn’t the answer to making the game work. As Macca said, the official product NEEDS to be affordable, and it sounds like it’s going to be even more unreasonable than what we already get. Breaks my heart to say it, but I can only see this game being dead on arrival.

[@Ungantor]

One of the great things about AT was that it was weirdly affordable (at least in comparison to 40k), because the intial box sets were good value, the rules were really fun and had a lot of replayability, the models were great AND had modularity for lots of replayability... It got people at least nominally involved. I think Imperialis is all down to the starter. You can't customise the models as much, the rules are simplified. It NEEDS to be reasonable to get people in the door, and then whatever they do afterwards is up to them. If this isn't £80-100 for the starter *at most*... Yeah, I agree, it's totally going to DOA, no question. It's a shame because I think a lot of AT players just wanted those same rules but with a couple of tanks and stuff. I've seen people asking on reddit and whatnot for years.

[@ravenRedwake]

15:09 the death of Alan Bligh was the effective death of the Horus Heresy being ran competently and well.

[@rogaldorn8519]

I wish more people could have attended FW open days so this misinformation could stop being repeated. Alan Bligh never “ran” the Heresy. He was a writer on it. By the time Alan left there had been at least two other major contributing writers that worked alongside him.

[@ravenRedwake]

@@rogaldorn8519 and it showed

[@rogaldorn8519]

@@ravenRedwake have you ever spoken to any of the studio staff IRL?

[@hephesto555666]

The game has a lot of potential and the minis looks excellent, but lets not kid ourselves. GW will handle this in one of two ways - Either it will be an isolated release which will get minimal to zero support afterwards OR they will use it as a sales platform where both rules and minis releases will be purposely designed to squeeze more cash from the consumer base with stuff like mix unit boxes, LE releases, split rules etc.

[@khamul64]

I wonder how much this system will resemble the latest Apocalypse ruleset. I love that ruleset. If the rules are simmilar enough I will honestly consider completely leaving 28mm scene and switch to this scale. If only because titans are in plastic and will not cost me an arm, kidney and both legs. I can albo simply play this ruleset with 28mm minis. But yeah I will probably look into STL files especially for terrain. Since I bought my Photon I have printed a lot of great looking miniatures.

[@firemango9107]

Hello macca do you have any plans of covering the solar aux range any time soon or wating for the plastics most likely in winter

[@TheOuterCircle]

Hoping for plastics. If we don't have them by Christmas I'll just review the range as-is.

[@gryffindoescardboard]

Could someone send said files 👀👀👀 looking for a…. Friend

[@roberts.lamborn7461]

Is GW has shown lately that it will ignore the wishes of it customer base and do what GW wants especially if the thing they are doing benefits GW fincially but also legally too. Such is GW producing and releasing the new epic (Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Legions Imperialis) because they lost a court case where the 3D model creator or company, GW were sueing, said that GW was NOT losing any $profit$ as they dont have any epic products and have not supported that game system/systems for decades?

[@toastle8005]

If anything, my local scene of players much older than me are hopeful simply for the ruleset being a way to roll out dusty old boxes of Epic Orks and marines that they’ve had since they were young... so even if the handling is terrible, I’ll still hold out hope for their sake that the game is useable or fun for their old models

[@geeksworkshop]

I agree that assembling these tiny miniatures wasn't fun.

[@sagacity1071]

I have no faith itll last long. On the otherhand I love your critical videos.... 90% of warhammer youtube content is vapid speedpainting rubbish

[@monkeyinapanzer]

Think the real potential kick in the teeth with this is that it will cause bloat and distraction to then probably either rot or just die outright. This system will most likely be the most important and best system ever made by GW for like two or three months and unless this thing hits like a home run grand slam it’s support will wither extremely quickly as GW’s focus shifts somewhere else. Which then compounds with what I consider to be a major issue with GW’s product lines and that is they have way too much trying to go in way too many different directions with just as many glaring issues from rules to support to availability. And that issue will not only be further expanded by another specialist game that most likely won’t last that will still take time and effort from other systems that desperately need it while itself being neglected. It’s the dumb pool meme but every kid is struggling to keep their head above the water or has already drown.

[@JanitorScruffy]

This game is somewhat interesting expressly because I like titans and combined arms warfare, but if the box set they showed off of the Titan maniple (or any other army set) is 500 plus American, I would only consider these minis as an art project, not a game to collect for, because I might as well continue collecting and painting the 28mm stuff at that price. If the rules are fun I'll get the starter box and give away the beakies or use them as basing for the warlord I picked up at an LGS. I think this game is going to have an uphill battle but probably not as bad as Old World is because at least it's getting new models.

[@zdron07]

im sad for no ork gargants

[@Malino8835]

Wait you guys aren't planning on using cardboard boxes for terrain?

[@raincoast_bear]

You are not wrong, OC. The fiddley models may be a deterrent. I think the mental load of the rules is the ultimate deterrent for most GW rule sets. It's not an accident that there are far more people who collect and paint 40k than actually play. If LI has the same level of rules layering, then people won't play it.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

For me it will be a hybrid of buying and printing

[@Scott-un7lc]

Mate I like the idea of 30k battle reports make it happen you mad lad

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

The probably split up the rules so they can prevent the spoiling of new releases. Ie: they’re doing it to artificially boost the hype-cycle. If the primarchs have rules then people will be less excited when they announce them.

[@marcmiddleton2277]

I love AT, the last price hikes put the models on the line for me. Any more increase and I'm probably out.

[@lordnovas]

When they announced Legion and described the rules, I was hyped and immediately joined paterons that were making epic scale sci-fi models, with the intention of slowly printing and growing my armies before the game launches. I'm for sure getting the rulebook and transfers if they are available. Since I've been printing it's like I'm conditioned to view the hype and buy the stl's.

[@travisdralle1227]

I was assembling AI thunderbolts as a listened to this and definitely agree. The extra work was totally worth it for AT, but I agree its going to be a slog for a full army. At 50 USD for a box, and it's like 4 land raiders, on your 8th or 9th box, you just paid for a brand new decent resin 3D printer. But if we can get to at least the Adeptus Mechanicus Army List I'll be one of your "hardcore few" I guess.

[@johnjeneki3758]

I'm mostly interested in using the models to play Polyversal. If the new scale gets close enough to N-scale I might even mix-n-match with Dropship Commander and C.A.V. stuff. But as always, price will determine my final decision to buy or not buy.

[@real-lomas-chenko]

I'd have bought into it if they hadn't chosen the derpy 30k aesthetic. AND rules out so many factions

[@snifferofasbestos1257]

ive completely given up on gw games at this point,moved onto the asoiaf game(would love to see more videos on that btw) and battletech

[@Ungantor]

Battletech is probably the most expansive, well balanced game out there. It's always huge fun and it's obvious that AT copied it's homework, as much as I like that game too. Heck, if you are playing BT with power armour, tanks and aircraft, you're basically playing epic already!

[@DoddyIshamel]

To their benefit many of the people buying will already have titanicus and/or Aeronautica models so the buy in will be less. The chances of them getting additional players in who have not invested in previous systems will be severely impacted on the other hand.

[@lochmoigh1]

Its one reason I am hooked on the core box. I have scads of AT and AI.

[@warhounds]

i would like to see you do solar auxila forlegion imperialis tbh

[@warhammerbadly5973]

Even if the starter box price was originally reasonable, because of the release delays, conceivably they will have some additional cost to recoup, which will add to the price. Especially If the rumor's about the rulebook re-prints are true.

[@stephendrobinski2426]

Ive got my units printed and am printing off armies for friends to play. I refuse to buy the AT terrain due to its insane cost vs coverage.

[@ElSWVisitor]

I feel bad for the aussies and kiwis. This is relatively cheap in the UK and there's a huge buzz, especially among the older nostalgic gamers. People who aren't in love with painting and modelling will get someone like me to do it for them or just make good use of smart priming/basing and drybrushing and get going if they cba. I am sad there's no Eldar though 😢

[@AnotherMC]

🇦🇺 That’s insane in price.

[@christopherroutt4937]

Synchronize your watches gentlemen. Countdown untill the system is abandoned, starts now.

[@itsallfunandgames723]

They're all about short term thinking, and who knows, the world is insane, maybe it'll work out for them. But they seem totally focused on creating release-hype for a hugely expensive starter, and charging more and more to those who will buy their models to make up for the losses of all those who know print in resin and download PDFs. Not to mention that I'll be able to print off and paint forces for 18 legions before they get around to making the special units and characters for each faction.

[@Raygun9000]

I wonder how many people own both Titanicus, aeronautica, and a ton of suitable terrain already(perhaps dropzone terrain). I'm in this camp, a starter boxe might be enough to give me a decent game.

[@georgeaitken2719]

The first warning sign for me was the 2 warhounds bundled with the starter set making this more for titanicus players with some troops the second is the delay with lots of releases already to go within a couple of weeks they will be a overload of new releases

[@psmiddy123models7]

I have concerns about the player base. I'm hoping that some of the classic epic players join in or new 40k players because HH players are insufferable to play against.

[@MickeyMulligan]

Agreed this game lives or dies on its pricing

[@TheToxicP]

As a Titanicus player I'm excited for the game. With saying that, I think you're right that it'll be way to costly for NEW players and if they really want to get into it - 3D printer goes brrrrr. My investment in Legion Imperialis will be a single starting box, in which I'll swap my Space Marines for the Solar Aux. in the box my friend will get. From there, I don't feel compelled or absolutely NEED to buy anything. I probably will, but I can simply take my time as I have enough stuff to play the game as is.

[@samvanschevensteen7714]

It's not going to cost 750 for a 3k army. 2 starter boxes are going to be more than 3k and that's well under this figure

[@TheOuterCircle]

Yeah, we were way out. Turns out the drop pods are in sets of 4, so it actually works out closer to €900, my mistake..... But the Blood Angels army I said costs that much isn't 2 starter boxes, it's a lot of expansion pack units, not starter units, and that's why it costs what it does. Now, does that mean that the BA army is the entry point? No, 2 starters might be the entry level, but unfortunately people don't want just 2 starters, they want all their toys. So what is a REASONABLE army going to cost? Hundreds of euros.

[@rod.h8064]

I might just be buying only the terrain

[@Colonel-Sigma]

If this is as affordable as Titanicus, in terms of dollar per point, ill be glad it exists. Old Epic was a great game and still is, so seeing it "remastered" is pretty exciting. But GW's infantry tax might creep its way in and make this unworthy of my time. Either way that's ok cause i prefer to shoot nukes at everything anyway so Titans it is. But using my printed Krieg army in the new system would be nice.

[@johnwhite9461]

GW are not interested in making affordable games, only profit

[@bradp6452]

Looks like kill team support is starting to get dialed back. Newest kits look just like 40k kits with essentially almost nothing special ops at all. Striking scorpions are straight up all looking the same as opposed to the variety normal to kill team.

[@generalsmite7167]

The thing I hate about warhammer is the price creates such a barrier to entry that it must hurt their sales. I have barely dipped my toes in warhammer because of the price. I want to get into this game because I thought it might be cheaper. If it does cost to much I might just tried to 3d print stuff

[@profsrlojohn635]

I will mention Macca, and while I disapprove the splitting of the units, what makes sense in regards to the extra books, is that they didn’t intend for it to release along side the core rules, but because Imperialis got delayed, they ended up having to anyway. Still not great, but makes more sense than pure malice/greed.

[@Hurricanelive]

more alt scale stuff for completionist whales to gobble up like so much sand. Garbage imo. Go print the mini mini army and get sum 1PRules. This is just more across the board ten tiers of never ending dlc cross play money BS. This should not be for the average hobbyist, not even the above average hobbyist. Don't even bother getting the starter, just hit the ground running and printing. Affordable and mini and GW are like blood, oil and water. GW will squeeze so much money while pushing less plastic crack, it's what they do what they have been working toward. You said it, three years, done.

[@shadowcat3163]

For Context, the price per sprue is $10 (US) for Flames of War Sprues. Bolt Action or other 28mm Wargames Sprues are around the same or a bit cheaper, GW is running $25 (US) per sprue. Does NOT matter what is on them they all cost the same to produce. So, I see typical gouging of the fan base on yet another game they will drop in a year or two, just like Warmaster, BFG, or the like. Add in the depression we are entering and the fact that most can not afford the price. People are going to print because they have no choice at first and later because they will abandon the system after a year of two.

[@Vega0bscura]

It's very frustrating how badly GW has fumbled this

[@forgefathervulkanhestan18]

I have a question about "support". As a person who's only been in the hobby for little over a year, and still hasn't actually played any games. I have been looking forward to this system though as what might finally get me playing. What's it matter if they stop "supporting" it after 3 years? By then they should (hopefully) have released all the models you'd expect, you and your friends will probably have your armies and rule books. If they stop supporting it then nothing is stopping you from playing it with your mates anyway. I know it would be bad for longevity as new people wouldn't join the system after that point, but even that could be debated. GW abandoned Battlefleet Gothic a long time ago yet it still has a strong community. All GW has to do is build the foundation and the community will carry the torch. If there's any flaw to my logic I'd love to have them respectfully pointed out.

[@TheOuterCircle]

So what tends to happen is you get a half-baked game with a bunch of missing units, and many expansions which add surprisingly little to the core game for the sheer number there are. Take the game Titanicus, which after 7 years has 6 (7) titans and a dozen books spread out over this one edition of the game. There are many knights and titans that existed in the original version, but they haven't bought them or their rules into this version, so the game, a direct competitor to Battletech with hundreds of units, is limited by the small pool of units to draw from. That's why support matters, if you want to just have a game with limited factions which the community takes over, well, then we don't need the company at all in that instance, we may as well take it over from day one.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

Another point to support is that if people anticipate they won't get what they want out of a game, why would they drop 600 dollars for it? Instead of getting anything they wait until they see the thing they would want, part of the reason battlefleet Gothic or man o' war is still played to this day is because the game system was largely unique, people still play the older version of epic,why would those players come here if the models are made to be overly expensive, from a time period they probably don't care about, and in most important part, won't even have an army they need for it, if the game was anticipated to be a long lasting game with tons of support the eldar player may buy a space marine force, or at minimum the rules and print his force until he gets some eldar support, if that endgame is completely impossible it's a waste of his time and energy to get involved

[@forgefathervulkanhestan18]

@@calebbarnhouse496 that's a very good point, thank you.

[@matso3856]

@@calebbarnhouse496 I just wanted to point out Epic was called "Space Marine" back in the day I bought the box with 3 starting armies in it , awesome box

[@myrar8708]

Printer goes brrrrrrr

[@DaLEGOmaniac]

I would like to see some epic content from you. Rules and minis don’t need to come from GW.

[@TheArtofFencing]

Good Systems need time to be played and not be patched by new additions to the rules by new units and getting revised every few years. I think thats why the older systems like epic armageddon or even necromunda before rerelease were so popular, people could play the game and they loved just playing it. You can't get better in a game which changes to fast and you can't really explore all the fantastic options missions or terrain give you to balance a game. In the PC World Starcraft Broodwar is a fantastic example, a game last patched 20 years ago is still evolving in meta and given new life though map(terrain) design from the community. Nowadays the internet and discussions about the game force the developers to be to heavy handed and fast in changing stuff (even without the part of selling new models with new shiny fancy rules :P). Especially normal gamers, who play once a month or so can't really keep up, I think thats a big problem with lot of 40k right now. Concerning your point with the rules for the different units, making the rules available for everything directly would make people print the models and nobody would buy the originals. Making a living online Rulebook would help with that in the sense that you don't have to buy a fucking book every time. Just keep the rules needly together online and print campaign books if you want to give extras fluff to players. So just play Epic Armageddon with the 30k Epic Rosters.. oh forgot, the website is down, probably because GW had them close it, because they are bringing it back.

[@gozewstuffnthings5837]

The game will likely die due to various changes GW have done, price and lack of their timely support for the miniature range as per usual. Which is fine imo. Long as I get the core stuff in plastic (I 3d print, its just more effort for mass products that I dont have time to deal with atm) then I'm ok. I'm not buying suppliments, they've already shown they're going full necromunda on it. Other ways to get those rules.

[@-nope3030]

I've stepped away from all things GW and Warhammer and went over to Bolt Action. Best choice I've ever made. I am no longer bitter nor do I care about anything GW do with the IP. I had my good times, but now they've ruined it all.

[@Omega1907]

Personally I'm a huge fan of Epic and I'm also of the opinion, that the heresy would be better suited to a small scale game (what is a battle in heresy with only a handful of squads after all?). I also tried to build a epic heresy army a while back with third party models. Apart from that, I do have a few points I dislike - the biggest one is the name: Why for f... sake mix english and latin? Especially with all the latin names like legiones astartes, adeptus titanicus, aeronautica imerpialis etc? Just call the game Legiones Imperialis and it's perfectly fine! I do understand, that this a rather vain point, but it's something I can't unsee ... Also the price, as Macca said, is something to look forward/fear ... for small scale wargaming I recently switched to Dropzone Commander - I have more than playable force (in fact I could probably build two full forces with the models I have) and paid I guess about 200 € max, a starter force with another usable boxed set on top costs about 80 € and it's a very usable base and in theory enough points to play a normal sized game.

[@andrewschmitt3284]

I want the game to be successful. But if we're being realistic, I think its got about 3 year lifespan. I'd really love to have legion sized forces battling out on the table, but I think it is gonna be too expensive given GW being GW.

[@USALibertarian]

Just make a game and effing support it. JFC.

[@DarkKnightCuron]

Would love to see some 6mm / 8mm action!

[@wisecontragio172]

You gonna make a vid about the bretonnnia stuff for old world? Legit if they gonna ask for prices like they re charging for epic scale, old world gonna be dead on arrival 💀

[@zm5884]

Feel like this game will fail from GW perspective just because 3D printing has kept epic alive for so long it will probably be the cheaper and easier entry. Can very easily see people buying the rulebook and never buying some of the plastic stuff, and just building their force from 3D prints

[@impguardwarhamer]

There's no need to worry about longevity guys, i will personally be whaling out enough to keep this profitable by myself

[@tybaltmarr2158]

It's still weird to me their obsession with the HH setting. I'd get Titanicus tomorrow if they had Gargants. Imperial vs imperial just doesn't interest me

[@IVIaskerade]

I'm not so worried about the health of the game for two reasons. First, if the game is good then we've already got a massive 3d printing industry ready to support it so even if GW discontinues the game we'll be fine. Second, if the game isn't great the new and available kits will work with the existing Epic rules that are community supported, so we'll have shiny new toys for the games we've been playing all this time. Sure there might be issues for Legions Imperialis _qua_ Legions Imperialis, but not for small scale 30/40k generally.

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

Except LI is in a different scale from old epic so you don’t have new toys because they’ll be much larger.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

I played EPIC back in the day, this does nothing for me. I don't have the time or the energy to do more models on yet another scale, this strikes as yet another cynical cash grab (is there any other from post 2000 GW?).

[@jeffers1985]

in my eyes, its dead on arrival. The cost of living is biting hard and there wont be enough of a new community to buy into this. The epic community will go on as business as usual

[@adamfox1669]

I was scammed in 1993 with the first epic set I bought. Not again for me.

[@WTFoolproof]

I can fix her. I already have a nice eco tank printer so I can scan and print very cheaply per page. My 3d printer will be ordered this week and up and running soon. A 3d scanner is on the horizon but I want to wait until the next generation drops. If some good rules and good sculpts come out of this then I will be happy. I have supported GW for decades. I have seen the slide in overall quality while the specific quality has skyrocketed. The gamification of the marketing hurts but the money is nothing compared to time spent painting so most people get over the price even though it always hurts. The efforts to prevent IP theft have done so much more damage imo. Photos instead of line art will soon give way to A.I. art but it will still be some copy proof compromise and the important text will be split up between panels, shaded sidebar boxes, and spilt between pages. These things kill the mood that oldhammer had. I am to be part of the player group that brings it back. Like most people I guess I'll buy a tournament army if I want to go to organized play but otherwise I'll buy the books and print some figures, enough for me and many friends. Re-edits of the books back into something stylish and useful is only the start I hope.

[@BanzaiBob272]

"This game has to be affordable" You must be new around here !

[@5p3cu10]

It's such a shame, this game is being fumbled hard. Adding a point to the rules diverging. That makes buying into a game incredibly difficult if you are not invested immediately. HH 1st ed is a prime example of this. Too many books at an insane price per book. It becomes blurry and hard to understand what to buy. The research investment required just to know what to get as a first purchase (which sometimes isn't best to be the starter set) is ludicrous. It turns folk off from a game when there are other, cheaper games available with less upfront knowledge required Edit: they should have done this system with 40k. Eldar, Marines, Necrons, Nids, Orcs. They should have done this and then let armies come out later. It already has a much larger audience and the sell should have been, massive battles from a smaller price

[@andrewhannaford9300]

Its called "cash grab". That GWs style with new games. Plan and simple

[@real-lomas-chenko]

€750!?!? You are either joking or have got that waaaaaaay out. You must have. 40k armies dont cost that, i got a competitive grey knight army for less than £200

[@TheOuterCircle]

Yeah, we were way out. Turns out the drop pods are in sets of 4, so it actually works out closer to €900, my mistake.....

[@chuckchalmers4960]

More negativity please. Its why I watch your channel.

[@commanderpjt]

Not my cup of tea, I watch because he’s clearly passionate what is an overly passionate to the point where it blind his judgment. He always has a criticism, no matter how much he likes some thing and that’s what I enjoy because we don’t get much of that in this hobby nor in conversations about it, at least from what I’ve seen

[@chuckchalmers4960]

@@commanderpjtWarhammer is a pretty shit game, and it needs some negativity to make it better.

[@robertjokebr1480]

i'm a fan of epic armageddon and a far more fan of horus heresy. and for me would be a dream to have a game like legions imperialis. but i didn't like the rules that much... the epic armageddon just seems so better...

[@kglguy]

My group is considering using these models with the fan-made heresy version of E:A. I do like the hidden orders from 2nd edition, but the rest looks just as clunky as it was in that edition.

[@ripandtear5277]

A niche game type (for warhammer) in a niche setting. Why they didn't go with just redoing epic 40k is beyond me would have been nice seeing some xenos stuff in epic scale to represent their lord of wars you never see in 40k proper (why people dont want to pay forgeworld $500+ for something with dogshit rules is a mystery). Id rather just play dropzone commander for something at this scale.

[@andreastauber5739]

Well, I mean... I like this game because it allows you to play a 2k point game on the go...

[@Quaaludio]

GW, like most other entertainment companies, seem to be focusing on hooking whales with FOMO.

[@jonridley]

Far too expensive, I can afford it if I wanted but I’m done at these prices

[@matthewsmall8009]

Gw can't sell miniatures so they sell hype instead.

[@svendepauw776]

Better play Battletech

[@RazielLordOfSecrets]

glad i caught this after warhammer fest we may see a 2nd and 3rd kits getting a price decrease from gw.

[@gaius9240]

less salt lol!

[@anarsim5926]

Wasted idea. Should of brought back a well thought out Epic that would appeal to older people but a gateway drug for the youngers. Must of been around 9 or ten when a m8 who still loves 40k more than me now introduced me to it. Could of released a basic 40k box with classic but better orks vs marines and then other fractions in a cheaper mini battle force box and various attachments with all the 40k races. Epic needs nids and necrons etc to be seriously interesting and entertaining

[@btpingel]

i feel this is a cash grab nothing more it will go the way of all the other specialist games after a month or two on the bright side they appear to have jump marines in this allready.

[@6077157707]

Im not interested is buying or playing legions because, as i think like every long term heresy player, my armies in 28mm heresy are allready big enough to field such a huge force and from my experience even a 10k points game can be played in a day.

[@scepteredisle]

I'm fine with them dialling back support i.e. new models after a year. So long as they keep the rules solid it's fine. There are more than enough models for some great games. There really is only so much they can do with HH anyway... wish it was 40K. I don't believe the 750 euros figure, that would kill the game instantly.

[@voidhawk2555]

I'm probably selfish, but I'd much rather they'd spent their time expanding Age Of Darkness rather than lauching this game...

[@monsterhelmet48]

Its marketed to whales not the average hobbyist gw has learned there is so much going for the whales

[@RyanF1313]

If you are right about the prices, then only madmen will buy this game.

[@Hermit_hobby]

I ..just don't care. Imo, it's marked as heresy so they don't get people moaning about xenos armies xD. They have loads missing from HH, old world coming and this. Nevermind 40k,bb,kill team,warcry etc