Legion of Cheese 5: MKV Heresy Armour Design History and its Future?

MKV Heresy Pattern Power Armour* has almost certainly received the least miniature attention of all the Astartes suits in the three and a half decades of development that is the Warhammer 40,000 and Horus Heresy universe.
Fortunately, it still has a rich history to explore - please join myself and J from Legion of Two for a deep dive into the darkest recesses of the model and art history of this shunned yet iconic battle plate of the Space Marines.
*Production. MKV (Improvised) is a topic worthy of a video of its own!
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[@punec]

Mk III and Mk V are the best armours imo

[@sonicwingnut]

It's not really Heresy but I'd love to know more about the rare MK VIII "Errant" - I actually got one the other day when an old friend gave me back a box of Blood Angels I left round his house years ago! But the name "Errant" is weird because it otherwise refers to a group of agents of Malcador, and if you look at the later "inquisitorial" Astartes - the Grey Knights and Death Watch - they both either use MKVIII or incorporate elements of it.

[@leakycheese]

That's an interesting idea, MKVIII Errant Armour is perhaps the most obscure of all the marine armours. IIRC Jes Goodwin did the original concept art around 1990* and the first model was released the same year (or 1991). As you say, there have been various models over the years and bits of the armour have cropped up in several marine squad kits - e.g. the last Tactical Squad had a MKVIII torso. The themes were also incorporated into the MKX of the Primaris. *At the same time as several other designs that would re-appear years later such as the Kastelan robot of the Cult Mechanicus and Vorax Battle Automata of the Mechanicum.

[@sonicwingnut]

@@leakycheese yeah that original 91 MKVIII model is the one I found in the box, trying to think of something fun to do with it! The interesting thing I think is the gorget around the neck - which exists on grey knights for instance, but their legs are in a MKVI style. And yeah like you say the gorgets appear on MK X armour too although it also seems to take a lot from MK IV - especially the helmets.

[@leakycheese]

@@sonicwingnutThe more we talk about it, the more Primaris armour is a mash-up of features from earlier designs, and you are right the helmet is very Maximus. Which could be looked as being thematically symbolic in of itself.

[@sonicwingnut]

@@leakycheese although just to throw a real spanner in the MKX design one weird thing is there's also similarities to Votann Armour - like the segmented gravis chest pieces look awfully similar to hearthkyn void armour. Obviously if by design it's a cheeky retcon, but an interesting one if it transpired Cawl had dealings with The Kin when designing parts of Maximus armour.

[@leakycheese]

That's not so much a spanner as just a new design direction... the Hearthkin armour similarities to Exo Armour (which are real, Jes Goodwin is on the record stating this) is just taking an old design and doing something new with it. Still, I do wonder if we will ever see a new Exo Marine? Terminators are 35 years old this year so who knows what they might drop?

[@BrooksSligh]

Huge fan of Mk V armor, the chest vent, the studs & the exposed cables are all just great details & a lot of fun to build & paint. Been hunting down Mk V designs on Cults to print & bash up.

[@JayJapanB]

Just picked up a squad of MKV to pepper through my Red Scorpion squads.

[@StephenLeaSheppard]

I think I was originally sold on the idea that MkIV would be next, as it'd let them de-list the existing incompatible-with-the-new-weapon-kits Betrayal at Calth MkIVs, but you make a solid argument for MkV. I've been looking at the models and thinking how they could be done in plastic, and I think you could do a simpler version of that Apothecary helmet (without the eye lens) by doing the faceplate in one piece facing forward, and the rest of the helmet facing sideways. Not sure how you'd do the legs, though. As for which mark I want next, well, I want all of them. I want IVs and Vs to kitbash with VIs to make cobbled together post apocalyptic garbage marine squads, and I want MkIIs for "What older mark of armor are Raven Guard most likely to favor?" purposes. So whatever they do I'll be happy.

[@leakycheese]

I know what you mean, every armour mark will benefit from an updated kit that will integrate into the new kit system of the MKVIs and MKIIIs. My personal view is they will redo all the armour marks as part Age of Darkness, the tricky bit is figuring out in what order!

[@przemysawseredyszyn1405]

I was under the impression that older power armour marks were a retroactive way for GW to explain why Chaos SM armour looked the way it did and Mk V was the dechaosification of World Eater/Khorne Berzerker armour.

[@leakycheese]

That is part of how the armour marks fit in the current Horus Heresy and 30K storyline, and various armour components can be seen in 2nd Edition onward Chaos Space Marine miniatures. However, when originally conceived and published, Space Marine armour marks were purely background for the Legiones Astartes and part of building their backstory mid-way through 1st Edition. The then Chaos Renegade models (used for Traitor Legionnaires in Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness) bore no resemblance to any of the armour marks and the models and art you refer to built on the article "Armour Through The Ages" from White Dwarf 129 (1990). There were a set of 6 models that accompanied the article, one for each armour mark. The later Chaos Marine models copied elements from the MKV design (and others), not the other way round. If you've not already seen it, look up FilmDeg's first interview with John Blanche on KZbin to get a feel for what the creator of these designs was doing.

[@przemysawseredyszyn1405]

@@leakycheese Just subscribed to FilmDeg. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@BoulderAndy]

I’ve always loved mk5 ever since I was a kid and I got a metal mk5 mini holding a knife in a bag of random bits from a boot sale

[@KaeEbonrai]

As a note: the armour through the ages mk V Predates 3rd edition (and thus the Godwyn pattern bolter), but was rereleased with the later arms and pack! It's actually from either 2nd edition, or even RT - The mk6-style knees are also present in some other RT-era mkV - there's a few variant sculpts!

[@leakycheese]

Good points all, thanks for sharing :) On the Armour Through the Ages MKV, I wonder if it would have been initially supplied with the original MKVII plastic arms, backpack and bolter as first released in the RTB15 Space Marine Strike Force of 1990? www.solegends.com/citrt2/rtb15smstrikeforce/wd130p084x-01.htm

[@KaeEbonrai]

@@leakycheese I believe it was, at least by my first encounter with it! That sculpt is where today's mk4 pack comes from, too!

[@gafrers]

Always had a soft spot for the MkV

[@BrooksSligh]

(Also: yes I'd buy an entire other Horus Heresy series of 50+ Damnations of Pythos full of side-stories & lesser-explored factions that don't connect directly to Horus's spear-thrust. Give me ten whole books about Solar Auxilia! Give me Blackshield pirates!)

[@mikepatterson6416]

The Face Grill is Fantastic!

[@DouglasParkinson]

I'm not entirely surprised, but you missed a somewhat common model with MkV armour: the tactical marine with missile launcher from Assault on Black Reach had a helmet in the style of the 'Armour Through The Ages' model. It was around that time that GW really started showing more than just VI and VII on models. I see an irony in that guy getting enough boxes to get an entire beaky squad: without doing extensive conversion work, that particular box only had MkVII arms with the wrist bands that VI lacked at the time. The correct backpack style also wouldn't exist in plastic until the Iron and Maximus kits hit the scene, and the torso won't appear until the tactical squad box would be redone in the mid-2010s. I also like that it's gone through the biggest redesign saga of the marks, it makes sense given the basis in field repairs and bodge-jobs. It's not my favourite design (that's Corvus), but I respect it. I've always loved the variety of armour marks and being able to mix and match on models to my heart's content; it's the biggest thing missing from Primaris in my opinion. As for plastic MkV? That's not too difficult really, they've started with MkVI studded shoulders being two-piece, so they can continue down that route I imagine.

[@leakycheese]

The Blackreach missile launcher model isn't MKV in the context of the discussion here - production and full suits. The only thing about that model is a sort of like helmet in the style of the Armour Through the Ages model - but that's not a Production MKV. That helmet's ancestor is Space Marine in Artificer Armour 3 070270 1 - see this neat article from Angry Griffin: angrygriffin.net/vintage-games-workshop-metal-space-marine-in-artificer-armour-3-070270-1/ In turn, this helmet is a taken from some of the art by Wil Rees in Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader (1987). Let's hope GW has figured out a way to crack MKV production in plastic 🙂

[@Helljumper556]

I first heard of the Solar Auxilia because of your KZbin Channel. Now I'm seeing that new sets are being made.

[@leakycheese]

That's really cool! And yes, after almost a decade the range is going mainly plastic. Good times for the heresy. Seems like the Mechanicum are going to be next ;)

[@Helljumper556]

@@leakycheese I'd love to see some 30k novels that feature the Solar Auxilia.

[@intergalacticimperialist9670]

Pretty much been waiting for plastic mark V to start my Executioners army for 40k, it fits their demeanor in the same way it fits The Space Sharks. Easily my favorite looking armor alongside Mark II.

[@steverogers3696]

God dam i want that mk5 apothecary

[@leakycheese]

You and me both! Can't be long now... surely? 😅

[@WarzoneMorloc]

I’ve just ordered a load of mk5 from tortuga bay and I’m going to enjoy this vid as I build them

[@leakycheese]

Ah, that's spot-on timing - enjoy those Tortungan Heresy Suits!

[@anotherzingbo]

Bob Naismith mentioned in a fairly recent interview that his turtleback terminator was in fact the first terminator sculpted, though Jes Goodwin's (not) Saturnine design got released first. I've taken to calling the third terminator design the Steve pattern, based on a joke made in a Midwinter Minis video about those early sculpts.

[@leakycheese]

That's a really interesting bit of info - thanks for sharing. It also rang a memory bell in my mind - the original article on Terminators was published in White Dwarf 109 from 1989. In the army entry box, the art by Pete Knifton shows the Naismith design - I'd always thought this was a little odd given the release sequence. Now makes sense, the Turtleback was ready first so got used here as opposed to the (Not) Saturnine.

[@nicholassinnett2958]

I can see how the bulk of this AoD/HH 2.0 MKV design might work in plastic. It'll be hard to do the studded areas cleanly in a two-part mould though, if they want to avoid having each pair of legs be 10+ pieces and need a load of gap-filling. The real solution is cored moulds, but that costs more, so I'd understand them just putting MKV in resin. People would complain, but it's by far the easier material to cast these kinds of details in.

[@UntiltedName]

Personally I hope they update the existing plastic mk4. I wonder how much longer they want that kit in circulation. It is a good kit aside from the legs, but isn't aging all that well.

[@leakycheese]

The MKIV Maximus kit was good for the time but yes, it was based on the previous marine figure schema. In Legion of Cheese Ep.4 we discussed heresy model predictions for 2024 and my pick was MKIV for a new kit. Since we recorded that we got to see Haar and the announcement of Beta Garmon and the Blackshields so now I'm thinking MKV is a possibility. Would not object to getting MKIV and MKV this year either :)

[@mikepatterson6416]

Here we go...😊

[@jalleonothing5946]

Lets hope they reveal the heresy command squad and plastic melee upgrades at WHW. Otherwise I think those are at adepticon

[@leakycheese]

Indeed.... we are still to see those two from the Spring section of Heresy Roadmap 2023/24. I'm just wondering what event (if any) GW will use as a launch platform for its big summer releases given WarFest is off this year? Maybe they'll just do an online thing.

[@jalleonothing5946]

@@leakycheese Perhaps. I think there is a US event in may this year though.

[@jiffah]

I've always called them "Field Mk5" and "Factory Mk5"...

[@brotherhoodofsteel4751]

I want gw to bring back the mk 1 thunder armor

[@leakycheese]

Would be a lot of fun for them to do... the most recent "Armour Through The Ages" article from White Dwarf 469 also hints at this possibility.

[@farsonsfinest1402]

I think plastic mk4 will be the last to drop as it will require several new kits for legion specific units as the previous versions will be non compatible

[@dylan9025]

any spoilers for End and the Death I should be worried about? Love your work!

[@leakycheese]

No TEatD spoilers in this episode - we'll always call out if a discussion contains any. And thanks so much! 😃

[@thetraitorguardsmen.5321]

Whisper's in the warp say. Eventually Gw will remake Mk7 right at the end of the HH story. This bit is my thinking. And then 40k will start again. All shiny and new. First born and primaris will fit together. For 12th edition.

[@leakycheese]

If Geedubs decides to venture into the realm of the great scouring then a new MKVII kit is an obvious way to allow a 40K design icon to ride again. And as you say, the crossover potential with the WH40K game is clear.

[@M0U53B41T]

I still have trouble telling marks apart lol But I do like mark ii and I find I do like mark v - I guess it's because I was raised on Dr Who and Brit shows lmao but I like the dalek look? Also is it possible to get a pdf of the schematic of the space marine armour dude? I swear I used to have one but maybe that was something else

[@leakycheese]

Drop me an email at Leakycheese@tutanota with the deets on which images you want and I can send them over :)

[@M0U53B41T]

you're the best! @@leakycheese

[@LongWarEnjoyer]

if they released mk 5 i would coom

[@radicalgoodspeed16]

I'd rather two, four and five came out together

[@leakycheese]

It would be great to get them all this year, I for one would not complain.

[@radicalgoodspeed16]

@@leakycheeseI'd also like all the Terminators but I don't think they'll do it

[@leakycheese]

Heresy is here for the long term as a mainline Games Workshop product... I expect all the 1.0 age generic infantry to get a new model at some point. I'm thinking a timeline of 3-5 years is a realistic proposition with regard to managing expectations.

[@radicalgoodspeed16]

@@leakycheese I hope so I ddon'twant games workshop to Battlefleet gothic this

[@lopesj6670]

They fumbled Mk 4, they are just plastic versions of the risen as they are extremely short , the grey knights current models are taller than them….

[@calastyphon3414]

Well yeah because they came out a decade ago and had to be next to 6th edition tactical marines