Is a Bravo Drive Better Than an Alpha Drive

[@boatinglessons]

Do you find that a Bravo Drive is significantly different to drive than an Alpha Drive? What are our experiences?

[@macbook802]

Are they all interchangeable?

[@egustafson]

@@macbook802 no

[@craigmonteforte1478]

ive been boating for more than 35 years now and once you have been on a boat with Bravo 3s on it you wont want to go back to a Alpha obviously with Alphas ive had my fair share of them and a positive point of them is there are plenty of parts new and used out there as well as experienced mechanics in all honesty ive not had a Alpha 1 completely fail on me yet and ive owned 17 or 18 boats of all sizes and types my first inboard /outboard was a Volvo Penta gas motor and outdrive on those old ones the only thing that needed fixing was the bellows from age and Ultraviolet damage btw i did grow up in Sunny Florida

[@CrazyCanuckFitness]

Thanks for taking the time to share and make it simple to understand.

[@DubbsDonny]

Thank you for these videos. I’ve been browsing for my first boat for like 2 years and it’s overwhelming these details and knowledge sometimes.

[@thomasdeir6212]

Great educational video. Well done.

[@spinedoc893]

Good basic info but definitely missing some key info. This video essentially compares the alpha one to the bravo 3 and while the general features of the bravo drive (ie stronger, smoother shifting etc), apply to all 3 versions, there are distinct and intentional differences between the 3 versions that are specific to different applications. Basically all three have the same upper gear set but each has a different lower unit. The bravo one is mainly for high performance applications or for bowriders and small cuddys that have engines close to or more than 300hp but aren't heavy enough to realize the benefits of the more expensive bravo 3. The bravo 2 is very specifically for large heavy cruisers or commercial type boats. It has a much longer lower unit that can swing a larger diameter prop required by very heavy boats. The bravo 3 as stated has the dual counter rotating props which give much better planning, stern lift, efficiency etc as described in the video. The down side is the lower top end speeds and the cost of repairs. The bravo drive series is VASTLY superior to the alpha series but they are more expensive to buy. maintain and repair (mind you they break WAAAAAY less often). So how do you decide?? For the most part its pretty straight forward. If you have a high performance I/O you want a bravo one. If you have a larger bowrider or small- midsize cruiser etc that is 5000lbs+ where you aren't concerned about high top end speeds you likely want bravo 3. If you have a very large cruiser you probably need bravo 2. If you have a smaller bowrider/runabout with less than 300 hp the alpha drive is likely sufficient and more economical. Having said that once you drive a bravo you will hate driving an alpha (I've had both) so if you are buying a boat in the 19-22ft range that is less than 5000lbs I'd give serious thought to getting a bravo one instead of an alpha one even if its less than 300 hp.

[@johnhewetson4406]

Great info Peter. The other point I noticed about the Bravo three is that when it is put on too small/light of a boat it can be very annoying as the "creep at idle" means that you have to keep going from forward to reverse in order to maintain a position in the water. I had a friend that had one and every time we would stop in the lake to talk from one boat to another or when he would momentarily want to talk to someone at the gas docks briefly without docking he was constantly in motion. We thought it was a function of a slightly too high idle but it turns out it is due to the "hookup" of the dual props that caused the forward motion while in neutral.

[@markjennings2315]

Excellent video, thanks.

[@boatinglessons]

Thank you Mark!

[@danielgrace7408]

Thank you so much👍👍👍👍 by way subscribed!

[@joshuakravitz1524]

At 4:32 they show a Polaris jet boat... In a video about Stern drives.

[@boatinglessons]

Good catch Joshua! My bad in proofing after production......

[@craigmonteforte1478]

great video and tips years ago I did have a older SeaRay 240 had a V6 with Alpha One it held up for 15 years of use but I did sell the boat because I didn’t like t a sound the Outdrive began making towards the end of my ownership FYI I did go with a new Jasper marine engine after the original failed same as Factory and I suspect that it may not had been aligned correctly although it did work after being Professionally installed and IMO the vessel was underpowered by the manufacturer for all the weight in the boat I’m sure SeRay did that to market the boat at a certain price range as I’ve owned 4 SeaRays so far and that 240 they tried to put too much of bigger boat features like head , galley ,etc but didn’t set up the power right. As you always had to work the trim tabs excessively and I played around with props to get a performance I was happy with

[@Maurice_Montana]

I really like you information THANK YOU LEN'S COVE!!!

[@boatinglessons]

Our pleasure Jeff!!

[@ricknicholson5894]

I was going through the exercise as to what to choose for my larger heavier older 28 foot sedan cruiser. The literature on the Bravo 3 sucks basically. It was only through a series of phone calls with prop and Merc dealers in Washington and British Columbia that I was able to sort it out. When I talked to a prop dealership in Washington (I'm in BC, gives you an idea of how desperate I was), I was told the chart for the Bravo 3 only shows for boats up to 9000 pounds, mine weighs in at 14500 pounds. I wanted a Bravo 3 for its line driving both forward and in reverse but I settled on the B2 as it was much more robust and could handle larger cruisers. I was not happy initially with this choice, now I am. In fact, the pop selector I used through the Merc site when I selected "cruiser" as my boat would only allow boat weight up to 9000 pounds, I added in the extra weight in additional weight calculated for "stuff" in and on the boat.

[@jamespha9896]

Thank you

[@catherineharris4746]

Nice!👍👍👍

[@boatinglessons]

Thank you Catherine!

[@stephenbonin3049]

Love my Bravo 2, very heavy Duty.

[@boatinglessons]

You can't beat it!

[@Chas1160]

My mechanic informed me that my Bravo II was a strong outdrive. He said just maintain and the drive will last along time.

[@E12_Sterling]

Im a running a B26 circa 8000 Lbs fully loaded and driven byt two TKS190 Hop V6's with Alpha conter rotating props with 1.81 gear ratio and teh 4 bladed prop 14x20. The boat handles very well. The Alpha is lighter, more compact, less drag. Not so smooth shifting but seems to be reliable and easy to service by yourself ( I've installed the engines and drives myself for a refit) Plenty of instructions and economical spare parts, The Bravo while smooth and beefier is a mongrel to deal with! would rather replace the transom piece every few years than repair a bravo drive. Note that the weakness of the alpha is the transom piece not the leg itself. That's where barnacles and corrosion like to roost! To prevent this from happening and my bita is in salt water 24/7 I put bags over the drives, flush the engines weekly etc. Takes maintenance time but what doesn't?

[@christopherrichards1025]

Didn't Volvo have a patent on the cone clutch? Mercruiser waited until the patent ran out to develop the Bravo drive. There were some big blocks powering Alpha 1's before the Bravo took over.

[@turdfurgeson517]

Good vid

[@boatinglessons]

Thanks Randell!

[@culjonez22]

Can you do a video like this for Volvo drives?

[@Interdiction]

Looking to buy a Bravo one suitable to take a 220 hp cummins diesel .Boat is only a 20 footer so it should go well. .Where in the UK would you buy a complete package

[@mientaycanada1472]

How about the transom assembly it is different

[@StansWorld]

I have had both and I like the older alpha 1 my B 3 didnt shift well and well its more than a bit Heavier its a LOT heavier and I dont like the water pump having to suck so far to get up to the pump My Opinion they backed up when they made the Bravo... alpha tried and trusted..

[@AchikSarih]

Merci beaucoup ❤❤❤❤❤

[@boatinglessons]

De rien!

[@anthonyr1080]

The cost to fix a Bravo 3 is astronomical you could buy a new boat give me a Alpha One any day they might not be efficient they conch when they shift but you know what it don't eat up no horsepower and it's fix its Pennies on the dollar

[@Icutmetal]

They can’t take any horsepower, either. One positive I can think of is that parts are plentiful and cheap.

[@spinedoc893]

Bravos generally only break if you hit something, Alpha's break driveshafts in larger boats and higher hp applications and chew up lower gear sets due to the dog gear shift mechanism. But yes if you hit something the alpha is way cheaper to fix.

[@garyj6223]

Is a twin engine boat with 454 magnums and alpha drives a bad choice? an old 1987 boat i'm looking at had this package fro the factory and i'm not sure what to make of it as the 454 mag puts out about 330hp.

[@jasondickson6806]

In my area we have a lot of older cruisers with alphas.... i prefer alphas do to their inexpensive cost of repair vs a 10g repair bill on bigger drives.

[@boatinglessons]

Jason, you are correct - they are less expensive to maintain and easier to work on

[@asdfbc]

Quick question to all you veteran boaters. Moving to the coast and looking to enjoy the water. As such, I've been researching boat and types of engines. Are stern drives really that bad? Bad in terms of maitenance , costs, .....than V drives? Any and all feedback really appreciated. At this juncture, I've been filtering my choices to just V drives.

[@vic1sch]

I realize you are generalizing. I run a bravo 1 with a SC525, 600 hp at the crank. It's on a 21' Carrera elite. Bravo 1 is also used on performance boats with one two or there engines up to 600hp each, that are running in the 80's into the 100's. My boat was originally equipped with a Volvo 290. Later models used the alpha.

[@edwardpate6128]

Let's go way back and talk about Number 1 drives and TR and TRS.

[@hildablanco1591]

And always ask for the bandit 1979 383 liter mercury engine and bravo 2 drive

[@silverstarflite135]

I was hoping to hear what the difference is with each Bravo. I had a Formula 330ss with the Bravo 3. Amazing performance. Looking at a Sea Ray 290 SunSport now with 350Magnums and Bravo1's. I wonder if the Bravo 1's are a good set up with this boat.

[@egustafson]

Bravo 3 was made for quick planing and straight tracking but not speed. Bravo 1s are the speed demons of the bunch. Bravo 2 has the largest prop for pushing heavy things around efficiently.

[@bobthbldr3]

Something you didn't mention is that I have heard that the counter rotating props on the B3 eliminate torque steer and make it much easier to maneuver and dock. Especially going backwards or in a crosswind. Is that true?

[@boatinglessons]

100%, yes!

[@MikeMMM-qc8ed]

2000 Chaparral signature 300 with 5.7 mercs has alpha 1 drives. Are these drives to small for this size boat?

[@raymondpontremoli4500]

Can you swap out a Alpha one for a Bravo three using the existing configuration for the Alpha one or do you need to replace the gimbal mounts and other things.

[@kimmer6]

The transom bolt pattern is bigger on the Bravo units. Everything is bigger including the tilt/trim rams.

[@cameronhubly5341]

Bravo 3 with its big stainless steel props will corrode the carrier bearing if the boat is left in salt water. I know mercruiser has tried to fix this with a ton of sacrificial anodes and galvanic isolators.

[@mcplutt]

Merchatode

[@michaellabelle9536]

Great video. Will the bravo 3 bolt up to a B1? Any other issues? Thanks

[@boatinglessons]

Micheal. In theory, yes it is the same bell housing and transom assembly. There may be a difference in the trim hydraulics to look at though.

[@v1-vr-rotatev2-vy_vx31]

Wish this vid had more info on Bravo 1 and Bravo 2, my 502 Chevy is at 610 horse power.

[@boatinglessons]

What more would you like to know? Bravo 1 is high horsepower and performance oriented. Bravo 2 is low end grunt with a larger diameter prop

[@StansWorld]

I have had many alphas 1 and a bravo 3 i prefer the Alpha any day..

[@hildablanco1591]

A windy cuddy cabin 30 with twin 460 ford engines and bravo 2 drives is the best

[@quasimodo4064]

You forgot to mention that the Bravo 3 is inherently (due to the amount of stainless steel in the water with duio props and long shaft) susceptible to severe dissimilar metal corrosion. Even in freshwater, the lifespan of an Alpha, Bravo 1 or Bravo 2 with aluminum props will be 5 times longer or more if the boat is kept in a wet slip at all times. We have replaced corroded Bravo 3 drives after only 6-8 years in freshwater slip, in saltwater they go away much quicker. Very unfortunate Mercruiser doesn't have aluminum prop options for Bravo 3 which would solve most of it.

[@alexroman]

How about shaft (inboard) drive? Would it be less painful to keep it in the water than i/o?

[@kawikaalana9878]

I have a Cummins 4bt, will the bravo 3 work and what shaft length will I need for the transmission?

[@boatinglessons]

That is tough for us to answer without seeing the application - sorry!

[@teachingrounds]

Thinking of buying a mjm 36z with two Volvo outdrives for saltwater. Would the maintenance cost be prohibitive? Thanks

[@boatinglessons]

Sorry for the delay, we have had so many comments this year we were overwhelmed. Certainly Volvos in saltwater have their share of issues - yes.

[@hildablanco1591]

A OMC drive with a 460 ford engine is durable no bellows and a better turning radius than Mercury but mercury came out with the TRS drive with single 24 inch propeller that could move a barge

[@Quad4Fun1]

Man I love all of your videos. Hopefully a quick question. I'm looking at buying a 2008 Bayliner 265. Most have the 5.0 Mercruiser, with some having the 5.7. I know you might not be able to give a absolute answer, so generally speaking is just fine. I've done a lot of research and reading on this question, and I know there may be many variables. I've read and heard that the 5.0 may be underpowered for this boat. So, generally speaking, assuming the boat is a bit underpowered with a 5.0 and Bravo 2 drive, would a Bravo 3 help with that at all and maybe improve the performance in any way over the B3? Any opinion would be great, and I won't hold ya to it LOL..... Thanks a bunch.....

[@Quad4Fun1]

I should clarify. The concern of being a little under-powered is while with more people on the boat, like with 4 or 5 adults, and not wanting to have to shove everybody up into the cabin to get on a plane any time soon LOL. Not looking for a speed boat, just reasonable time to plane without taking an hour..

[@AlabamaSkunkApe]

What are “common” repair and maintenance costs for the B3 vs the A1? I am getting a custom deck boat and the cost between the A1 or B3 are not very much. The logical thing is the B3 since it is only a little more expensive, however I keep reading about the higher repair/maintenance costs vs the Alpha 1. The two I’m considering are Mercruiser MPI Catalyst 4.5 Alpha 1 or MPI catalyst 4.5 Bravo 3, only $2k difference in build price. Which is the most economical choice over time, and best for future resale?

[@egustafson]

Alphas have to be taken apart every time it needs an impeller, bravos do not however, the impeller is on the engine which may or may not be difficult to access. Bravos rarely break as they use a cone clutch where as alphas use dog clutches. Bravo was built to handle more power. Older 80s boats used to come from the factory with 454ci paired with an alpha and the power would destroy them every other season.

[@brentmcmahon8188]

One of my buddies bought a big Sea Ray with a B3 and it was rushed in to market because Volvo all ready had theirs out and had been testing for 3 yrs before the released them for sell and Mercury rushed their B3 out with very little testing so you know the out come Volvo had a great duo prop and Mercury had a boat anchor and my buddy’s new 42’ cruder was in the shop almost all summer and Mercury ended up giving him a brand new up graded , but with all the problems he had he traded in in on a new cruiser with the Volvo duo prop and never had a problem with that rig he kept it for a little over 10 yrs and out drive ran like a champ !

[@scottboat6552]

I have a Sea Ray 290 with counter rotating Alpha one gen 2 this is my 8th boat over the years.This specific boat is by far the hardest boat for me to maneuver especially stern in docking. It does not go straight back and even in a lite wind I lose control of the bow. I have 3 docking scars that need to be fixed and it is frustrating at times. Are the Bravo 3's better in reverse and provide more control?

[@hildablanco1591]

Go get a 1971 trs drive 215 e or h it will last a lifetime massive muscle

[@robertpoore7604]

No

[@christopherklanica4155]

I'm surprised to hear of the control issues. I also have a 290 with A2's and find moving around the docks pretty easy compared to my previous boat with one B3.

[@Nick_G7IZR]

What about the differences between a Volvo Penta sterndrive vs a Mercruiser?

[@boatinglessons]

Hey Nick - good question and a whole other video we should do. Stay tuned :-) Both great product actually.

[@HudsonCorley23]

I have a 1993 Cobalt 22T with a 7.4 Mercruiser and Bravo ...Can I replace my Bravo with a Bravo3 to increase the performance ?

[@boatinglessons]

If it is a single prop Bravo (1), then in theory yes. I do not think you would gain any top end speed though? Better handling, fuel economy, low speed planning - yes.

[@anthonyr1080]

You made a slight verbal booboo you said when the gears slide and of course it's the dog clutch that's doing the sliding and you also keep moving your hands up Up and Down vertically the the all the drives are almost identical vertically cuz Mercruiser uses the same transom X dimension for all of them so you get given the full syndication of the size it made the other ones are fatter and deeper but the heights are all the same

[@tylerbentley6612]

Hello, I have an 87’ SeaRay Weekender with a rebuilt 408i small block Chevy replacement. It only has about 295 hp because I am limited to the stern drive. My question is...will a bravo drive two bolt right up to where the alpha drive was, as long as the manufacturing years of the outdrives are the same?

[@joeh88]

An Alpha will take the power... I’ve seen em hold 400+ I wouldn’t suggest hole shotting it a whole lot though lol This guy is in the trees about the bravos, they’re not worth cost and maintenance. If you hurt a bravo, which you will it’ll cost more to fix than an alpha.

[@kimmer6]

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure the bolt pattern on the transom adapter plates is wider on the Bravo series than on Alphas and old 888 units that all look interchangeable. I converted my inboard diesel boat to a stern drive and installed a Bravo One maybe 10 years ago. I vaguely remember marking holes for the Alpha transom plate (I had 3-4 laying around) but when the Bravo outdrive arrived the bolt holes were farther apart and I was happy that I didn't drill the holes first. Everything is bigger and heavier duty on the Bravo series, even the tilt/trim cylinders.

[@jonnyeisenhardt4910]

Charlie’s in the trees man.

[@jeguim123]

does the bravo 3 fit on a 21ft boat with a 302 engine ?

[@boatinglessons]

Yes it would, with the proper transom assembly

[@rixmag]

Would a B3 mate to a OMC assembly in the same way an SEI116 can?

[@terryken12]

Question about SEI drives, what do you think about these? I have one that is on a 21 scarab with a 350, it's 3 years old and the seals and driveshaft bearing have already failed, did I get a bad unit or is it just the nature of these units? If so is there a better option or stick with a OME product.

[@ncurc9766]

I had an sei it only last maybe 3 years before it started to fail

[@terryken12]

@@ncurc9766 I think that SEI is a replacement for when you intend to sell your boat. Lol!

[@sparkyobrian6417]

i would say the B3 is significantly more expensive, potentially 5x the cost of the A1/B1 drives

[@boatinglessons]

Sparky, no not at all. In a new boat, it is typically a small upgrade (about $1000 per engine)

[@shanechostetler9997]

Good video, but having the water pump outside of the drive is a nice touch for the Bravo side of things.

[@boatinglessons]

I agree

[@aaro8349]

Hey guys,,,I’ve decided to go with a bravo3 but am running into a small issue,,,the boat is 26’ cuddy cabin,,,with a V8 350 and An Alpha1 gen.2 outdrive,,And yes there goes my issue,,,it’s an Alpha1,,,so I’ve been asking around if it’s possible to replace the helmet on the Alpha1 outdrive to a bravo3 helmet and then install the bravo3,,or do I’ve to go ahead and replace the gimbal assembly,,,no one has been able to give me a straight answer,,,,the shifter cable routing is the same as far as I can tell,,,and these parts are identical but hard to say if I can squeeze the bravo3 gimbal into the Alpha1 gimbal,,,

[@boatinglessons]

Unfortunately you need to replace the entire transom assembly inside the boat also. It means an engine removal is required also. It’s a big job

[@brentmcmahon8188]

OMC created the cone clutch drive you don’t hear a thing whe it changed gears .

[@dianaburghduf1603]

What about pre-alpha, or TRS drives?

[@boatinglessons]

They are getting fairly rare Diana, and yet were very well made for the time. DO you have a specific question about them I could possibly answer?

[@joshuareedbudzik8916]

Key word pleassure boat

[@rreevesb3]

There is the alpha gen 1 and the alpha gen 2

[@boatinglessons]

Yes, that is correct Randy. Although there are some difference in exact parts used and appearance, the mechanics of their operation is essentially the same

[@richr909]

Another very important thing to point out between drives is the enormous cost difference for parts between Mercruiser and Volvo. I personally do not think that Volvo is worth the enormous cost difference. The 2 seem very similar in durability to me having owned both for many years. The parts cost almost doubles for Volvo over Mercruiser and most places don't stock expensive Volvo parts. They must be ordered putting your boat out of action longer when you want to use it. I've never had wait for a Mercruiser part to be ordered. Someone always had it in stock. I personally will never buy Volvo again. Merc for life.

[@boatinglessons]

Great points!

[@davidheitman7004]

im more an alpha drive! i fly on my 225 bayliner. 2019 5,0 mpi. with a custom 4 blade. half tank. one person. 54mph!

[@ee4231]

I owned a 20 foot Baja Islander with a 4.3L v6 that was faster than that with 4 people in it.

[@jakes8279]

You left out the pre alpha FAKA

[@broadsmilemissmagootewkesb5799]

Would have been a good video but why on earth did you need to overlay music over your speech. I wanted to hear you but the music just annoyed me so I gave up.

[@hildablanco1591]

Bravo 3 is a gear case nightmare for the wallet

[@boashna]

why am I watching this .. I search for how to be a million er and it said a boat will make you a million-er if you are a billion er

[@dsciarrino3663]

Junk.

[@boatinglessons]

Haha, that is certainly a strong opinion :-)