Lesser of THREE EVILS | The trade-offs of micro-diameter arrows!

[@robertculpepper1508]

In my opinion, best bang for the buck is Victory Vap gamer 250/300 spine raw shafts. Can be had for under 145 per dozen shipped to your door. Fletchings are cheap.

[@dustinroberts3403]

Black Eagle Rampages are great .204 arrows. Good price point, durable, and a lot lighter than the Axis 5mm

[@JS-ji5bl]

You right..

[@CM-pc4xu]

No thanks. BE Rampage are the only arrows I've ever had that broke at the nock. Weak design and just asking for a dry fire.

[@sheyanderson4371]

I have had the same experience as C M with Rampages and won't be using them anymore. I found through multiple chat threads that it is a pretty common thing. My father in law didn't have the same issue, but he also hasn't shot his as much as I have mine, so time will tell. Also, I have shot the X-Impacts and have had zero issues with those, so it seems to be something about the Rampages in particular.

[@michaelcolthart4006]

I like Rampages, but calling them durable is a stretch.

[@jbroutson17]

BE arrows are weak

[@KowboyUSA]

Almost switched to micro-diameters last Summer, but I'm retired and on a budget, so decided it'd be better to just grab another dozen GT 300s and put the $200 I saved to do more hunting.

[@juffurey]

you can find the 0.166" arrows cheaper now that there are 0.126" shafts available

[@maynardcarmer3148]

I have been using Easton FMJ 400 spine arrows for years. They are neither cheap nor light, but they fly great and hit and hit like the hammer of Thor. That's good enough for me.

[@andysmith8295]

Black Eagle Rampage is the bomb. Great arrow and a very manageable price.

[@RHY-ZI1894]

One of most informative KZbin archer/hunter on this platform. Keep up the great work m8

[@jons7e]

If you aren't worried about FOC, I think Easton Axis is hard to beat. And the FOC isn't bad (12%ish) with a 125 grain point, while still using the stock aluminum insert to keep the overall weight down, bringing total weight to around 450 grains, which is very suitable for hunting. Very easy to find everywhere at a great price, even in match grade, and durable.

[@joevandivner9704]

Black Eagle Rampage. .001 straightness and I am getting them fully built ready to shoot from my local shop for $150 a dozen and they are great arrows.

[@fahlvfaust677]

Deer crossing arrows SD hunter .166" ?

[@MrAPCProductions]

If you are on a budget you shoot aluminum, Easton still sells xx75 gamegetters from Lancaster at $45 a dozen cut to your length. If you are not on a budget shoot RIP XV from Victory. They aren't cheap, but as far as I am aware nothing is lighter or more durable in per spine.

[@andrewmccann7572]

Thanks for the great email response the other day and this video was much needed!! Thanks again for all your help!

[@easternoutdoorsman2521]

Im personally using the black eagle rampage with the 100g focos system. Runs about $20 per shaft. I fletch myself. .204 with the 100 grain FOCOS system you will be well over 15% FOC. Run 125g heads 19% 524g overall.

[@joevandivner9704]

What spine you running? I am using the same arrows but with the standard 60 grain half outs and 125 grain point and I’m at 515 total weight with a 16% FOC but that is running the 250 spine with the .001 straightness. I would like to get another 40 grains up front and only go up 10 grains in overall weight even if I have to go to a 300 spine.

[@easternoutdoorsman2521]

@@joevandivner9704 300 spine

[@wcwcgarner2717]

Great video. I shoot Easton axis 5mm 340 spine. 420 grains. They are 9.5 gpi. They are match grade. They fly great.

[@therealme4552]

I payed $89 for a half dozen , pretty sure they weren't match grade , when I put them on the spinner only two were straight ,the other four were wobblers lol I was so disappointed I never even shot them through my bow.

[@308blr2]

Thank you for an interesting presentation. For whitetail hunting it seems all arrows would work; and I’ve blown through whitetails and broken the near shoulder and the offside leg with fixed blade broadheads and standard diameter shafts. Granted, the shaft sounded like a .22 when it snapped; but the front 1/3rd of the shaft kept going. I don’t think I need 4mm shafts; although I do have FMJs ready to go. I got tired of having to use deep six broadheads. Now we can use outserts; and I like that the market offers that option. If I were to hunt in the west for pronghorns, deer or elk then I would probably want every advantage to reduce wind drift and drop. I’ve often hunted with a fixed single pin sight. When distances are within forty yards; and if you’re hunting with a heavily spined arrow and a fixed blade broadhead, then you should be able to pass through any whitetail.

[@michaelcolthart4006]

Spine isn’t a weight measurement….

[@sgreene2036]

You nailed it with the durability of Sirius arrows! Hands down the strongest arrows on the market. I spend the extra money. I have broken 1 Sirius arrow. Made a bad shot on a quartered to buck and it went through the scapula. He tried to run and couldn’t move his front legs and fell over on the arrow and broke it. Most arrows would’ve broken when he tried to run. Great video!!

[@markkahler1130]

I'm surprised I don't see more guys talk about the Easton Hexx arrow. They are a .001 arrow that are very light. 480 spine is 6.3 gpi, 400 spine is 7.2 gpi, 330 spine 7.9. Price point is pretty good as well.

[@MIKEJOHNSON81]

I’m with you ... they are discontinued now though :(

[@markkahler1130]

@@MIKEJOHNSON81 I did not realize that. Well... looks like I'll be searching for my next arrow.

[@o.n.e.wayhunting]

Love Easton Hexx arrows!!!

[@TheOtherGuybo]

Really appreciating your channel. Thanks for the great analysis.

[@megacountryboy03]

Gold tip Kinetics are at a great price point and are 10.4 GPI, they fly great and I'm ok if I loose a couple during hunting season.

[@cjr4497]

I read a study several years ago where they measured an arrow's efficiency by measuring launch energy and retained energy down field on impact. They didn't use a math equation. They had some sort of measuring device in the arrow. Gold Tip Velocity arrow cam out on top by a good margin. It even beat many heavier and skinner shafts. The Easton's pultruded shafts were the worst. The unidirectional fibers flex more in flight and on impact resulting in more energy loss than other shafts. I still use Velocity's to this day and still refuse to use pultruded shafts.

[@TheDruxlol]

the biggest 2 in this product category are the x impact and the rip tko, thoughts?

[@o.n.e.wayhunting]

Both of these are better than anything sirius makes and offers. I’ll take Easton over them as well. Black Eagle are just awesome arrows.

[@jaygolliday8152]

@@o.n.e.wayhunting I’d have to disagree. Have had x impact, rip tkos, and vap ss. And I like the Sirius orions by far the best.

[@zackw9292]

I’d love to see a video on 4 & 5mm arrow insert options. I’m running Victory RIP’s with BE rampage inserts, and they’re bombproof laser beams. But the archery season is a long ways off and I love to tinker….

[@caseyporter1961]

What do you think of the gold tip pierces?

[@EBair]

Need to check out black eagle, alot of good shafts. Decently priced too

[@-lovefromnh]

Love my Vector HMRs. Last I knew, they are still running a deal. Great content as always. Thanks for sharing. -Love from NH

[@lspostma]

Nate, I think you should look at the Kinetic Hunter and Khaos from Gold Tip in this comparison of .204 arrows, and their Airstrike and Quantum. My original .166 arrow was made for Cabela's by Beman of France in the late 80's. I have 1 left. It used an "over" nock like used on fiberglass arrows, and an insert that tapered up to 5/16" that was the "OG" collar style insert-outsert.

[@greenhoodedvigilante458]

What about Gold tip pierce? You didn’t mention that. Also, I don't really buy that smaller or micro diameter arrows make any big difference in penetration, specifically on actual game. If anyone shoots a fixed blade broadhead, specially 3 or 4 blades model, it's gonna creat a hole which is much bigger than any arrow diameter. Standard diameter arrows are much more forgiving and easier tune unlike .204 or .166 ID arrows.

[@h-minus2212]

Thank you for the great video and the insight on the various equipment trade offs. I went into Archery Headquarters in Rochester, Minnesota and asked the owner for the best hunting arrow money can buy. He sold me the Victory VAP Elite .166 with the 95-grain Penetrator inserts. The question is: What would you sell an archer who asked you the same question?

[@alexgenereux4704]

Between the sirius apollo vs the victory rip tko for durability?

[@justincarp7041]

victory best 166 arrow out there .. durable..mid price, light , but they are tack drivers out to 80 yards ..

[@Bobsonomatic]

I just watched your previous video on micro-diameter arrows (from 4 years ago) and in that one, you mentioned increased weight as a benefit because it produces better penetration, more ethical kills, and a quieter shot from the bow. I’m pretty new to archery - why is a lightweight arrow now a premium benefit where we liked the increased weight in the past?

[@averagejackarchery]

The arrow from that video I believe is the Easton Axis. A smaller diameter yet heavy GPI. Today, with the fad of trying to be heavy with a high FOC, a heavy GPI arrow is less desired. I personally like Axis, Gold Tip Kinetics, etc as I've found them a touch more durable, no footer components, and usually cheaper.

[@Bobsonomatic]

@@averagejackarchery thank you for the response! I love your channel, been subscribed for a couple years but finally just got a bow about month ago. Still trying to learn what I can. Thanks again.

[@timothyfanney7260]

Hence why I basically have standard size arrows. I have close to all three in the triangle, but give up very little for penetration and wind drift. For deer hunting in the Southeast, I just can’t justify the cost to say I have skinny arrows.

[@dieselpusher2548]

I've been through all the high end arrows I like the ideal of the Micro arrows but at the end of the day hands down .204 arrows are easier to tune across all brands .166 are tricky

[@justinsalzl1517]

That’s a great point. I’ve noticed that for the most part, but not all.

[@tmalonso]

While I haven’t tried enough arrows to know for sure, It kinda seems like durability and lightness trade off in linear fashion, similarly, straightness and cheapness seem to have a linear trade off…maybe by weighing the scores of each of those tradeoffs and getting a total would give you a pretty reliable scoring system for arrows to use down the line :)

[@petebeck6696]

Nothing on the victory rip xv or the vap. Any thoughts on those.

[@ernestroger3326]

Always great info ! Looks like your new shop is well stocked . Do you have an opinion on spinning inserts with a fixed blade broad head ?

[@averagejackarchery]

Theory is nice, in practice they're not necessary at all.

[@joshuascott7935]

I buy my Easton Axis 4mm pre fletched @ $100/6. And I love those arrows. Switched from VAP TKO last year don't regret it at all

[@davisstellman]

I've shot 5mm axis for 7 years on my trad bows. I'm now considering ordering black eagle instincts with a focos system which comes out only $1 more than my axis setup because I shoot 400s with a 70gr insert. I figure replacing the footer is cheaper than replacing an entire arrow so we'll see how they hold up at TAC

[@benheisey3747]

So which corner of the triangle did I miss? After a bunch of research I settled on a dozen of the Victory RIP Sport 300's for $80. Affordability was the main target, but the 8.8 gpi was pretty darn good compared to some of the others I was considering.

[@parkerchristian229]

What's your opinion on the gold tip kinetic shafts

[@hollowlog0973]

You can get the easton axis a little lighter in 9.5 gpi, still heavy but its lighter than 10.7

[@colinbrown7528]

I’ll be trying out the Gold tip Kinetics this year which are .204. Got a dozen bare shafts for $75.

[@megacountryboy03]

you will love these arrows! I have shot them for three years now.

[@tylersmith2827]

Great video, what is your opinion of the victory rip tko or victory rip xv? They are .204 with a light gpi.

[@Anthony-tf3tz]

Hey Nate! I noticed the Athens Vista wasnt on your "Gear I Use" section. Did you move on to something else/go back to another bow? What made you change? Might be just outdated, but I though I'd ask.

[@averagejackarchery]

The list is just outdated. Have not added it to this or past videos. I've use my V35 for everything archery related this winter.

[@brianx2504]

Are there any arrows that come with a helical fletch out of the box?

[@greenhoodedvigilante458]

Good thing is that you can get all three of the triangle in a standard diameter arrow. 😌 Gold tip velocity, for example.

[@averagejackarchery]

Velocity arrows are standard diameter of .246.

[@greenhoodedvigilante458]

@@averagejackarchery Yeah, that's what I said. All 3 points of triagle are available in standard diameter arrow which I prefer the most.

[@josephtreadlightly5686]

I ❤️ this bare bones approach video. I also noticed the only bare shaft was the best & most expensive. No need to fletch a shaft for a video when it isn't even going to be shot. When Heidi Klum had a big divorce a while back I didn't draw a triangle & label the sides 1. I'm light enough for her 2. I'm strong enough for her 3. But her price was just too steep! I think it comes down the fact that it pays to have target arrows & hunting arrows. U could buy a dozen bare shaft Victory VAP arrows in the sport .006 tolerance with a 300 spine & shoot them to your hearts content. For hunting u could buy 6 VAP TKO bare shafts or even the Blackeagle X-Impact's which come in .001tolerance straightness in either a 300 or 250 spine if u plan on turning your bow up in poundage. If u need to leave a little more length on the 250 spine to fly perfect then u might actually get more stable arrow flight. Archery & archery bowhunting r 2 very different things since I've never had to bloodtrail a spot on a target or even a 3D deer target.

[@jlbman5017]

I picked up a half dozen gold tip black label quantum, so far I am impressed.

[@MikeyWoomer]

Black eagle arrows are my go to arrows.

[@pensnut08]

Gotta stay with my GTs and BEs for this year... Buying a saddle LOL But this def got me thinking... A thinner shaft, with decent heft and a good CoC head.. That would zip through any deer most of us will ever see. They'll probably do the "jump once or twice, look around and drop" after being shot.

[@kennethsnow3]

Check out the Arachnid Archery lineup from .124 thru .244 at .001-.003 straightness. Overall great arrow for cost/performance

[@riccoratzo]

I was looking for those Goldtip Hunters XT, Spine 500. But they only build them to a length of 30 inch, which is way too short because of draw length. Anyone got a clue why they do that? Due to that reason i will stick to the Axis, although they are quite heavy ( but durable).

[@jeffkamp5743]

I shoot Black Eagle Rampage 300. .001 straightness, $145 dozen shafts, 8.7GPI.

[@easternoutdoorsman2521]

Same. With 100g FOCOS.and 125g heads. Using 2.25" bohning x-vanes. Really liked the set up last season.

[@bozwezzy8521]

Same great arrow

[@brockpeck7073]

Black eagle renegade .204. Light, durable, and the price point is great.. my go to arrow at the moment

[@seanc77339]

what peep do you use on your sick bows or recommend since you are my go to for archery advice???

[@averagejackarchery]

I use Pine Ridge Z38 for pretty much everything now. Target rig currently has a 1/8" on it but my hunting rig would run a 3/16".

[@roberthodges9242]

What arrow do you recommend for best all around. Price, weight, durability for hunting and 3-d shooting don’t want to have to change arrows. So like shooting at tac

[@averagejackarchery]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5qUcmqjpLp_r6s

[@bjcoveney5306]

How about Vector? Up in your neck of the woods. (Tested great!) In Texas

[@-lovefromnh]

Worked well for me last year in Ohio and New Hampshire.

[@mikehancho3500]

I remember when I bought my first carbon arrow back in 90s they were bemen brand and was different i went right back to my Easton xx75. Shot them until @2008 when carbon was getting good have not looked back yet

[@milkrvr4088]

My VAP tko elites were 225 the nexus arrows are 170$ I really like the idea of the RIP TKO because of the low GPI so I can add weight up front I have 24 shafts coming I’m sure they were 200 a dozen but I want components and some iron will single bevels to play with I think I have a problem and can’t leave things alone I have shot FMJ and axis also as well as some different gold tip arrows idk it’s all fun right

[@josephsutherland6144]

Great video… just wondering why you didn’t mention Day6 arrows. I know they are little heavier but a 400 spine at 9.2 gpi is pretty good and 10.2 for a 350 spine is perfect for my 26.5 inch draw length. 500 total grains with 125 grain BH. If the Orion from Sirius is real durable would you recommend the lighter gpi in 340 spine for my 26.5 draw length and 70lb draw weight? Thanks for the great videos.

[@jordanpowell228]

They would really only be covering one corner of the triangle, durable. They are expensive and heavy. Great shaft if money isnt an object and if your looking to shoot something heavy

[@jordanpowell228]

How much weight do you plan on putting up front?

[@stevenmarod6191]

Have you actually tested penetration of skinny shafts vs. standard shafts besides in a foam target? I just really have a hard time believing that a standard shaft following a broadhead through an animal would be much better with a skinny shaft. If they're better I think it would be negligible.

[@averagejackarchery]

I'm in the same camp as you. I too don't get wound up about skinny arrows and their penetration factors. I do just fine with standard diameter carbons all the way through fatty aluminums from the olden days.

[@justincarp7041]

skinny arrow gets less penitration at 20 yards..the flexibility don't let it plane out as fast as the fat arrows..

[@allenr6687]

Nonsense same spine as standard diameter carbon shaft with same flex.

[@justincarp7041]

@@allenr6687 actually do research...we have done it multiple times with different brands..there is more flex in a smaller diameter arrow..they don't start straighting out tell about 32 yards...I was hunting last year with a 250 vic this year a 250 beaman..way less flex and when it hits the target it has way less wabble the skinny arrow in slow motion looks like a worm when it hits...

[@erik1176]

Lol

[@Ashepnasty]

Man, you did hit the GT kinetic pierce!

[@seanh2898]

No mention of gold tip kinetics?

[@steven_farmer89]

I just bought some rip tko .204…they aren’t cheap so at least they are light and durable.

[@DavidGonzalez-ek3zh]

Victory vap tko...yes expensive but freaking deadly straight and strong! Last forever!

[@anthonypiertosanti9692]

What do you think of the goldtip kinetic pierce platinum

[@averagejackarchery]

Great arrows. I'm not a .166 fan myself and prefer the .204 kinetics, but both are fantastic.

[@deanehuff1589]

Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I find that the good old .244 i.d. arrows fit the triangle just fine. For eastern Whitetails out to 40 yards max, they fill the bill. If I hunted out west I might consider the .166 or .204 options

[@averagejackarchery]

I am an old soul right with ya! Big fan of standard carbons for my hunting quiver.

[@russelllangworthy8855]

@@averagejackarchery You guys' comments about being a "fuddy duddy" and an "old soul" make me feel ancient. I still shoot my old XX75 2514s with Thunderhead 125s. They might not be as accurate out past 40 yards, but I'm not interested in shooting that far anyway. My last 5 bucks have all been within 15 yards.

[@MrRay645]

Victory RIP XV is a light .204 thats not crazy expensive ($11-$13 a shaft I think)..... mine have help up well (better than I expected from the weight. * bought a dozen cheaper SPORT level ones to go along with my Elite version for TAC, its been a few months now and they group identically for me (indoor, 3d, field) will buy the lower cost ones going forward.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Awesome and informative video there Nate. I am thinking about new arrows for that PRIME Black 3 that I bought in August last year but never used during the season. (Still trying to kill a deer 🦌 or turkey 🦃 with my 06 PSE). My arrows last two years are the Carbon Xpress Mayhem SDS ( I know that you hate Carbon Xpress) 340 spine with 11.25 gpi and is a .204. So I was trying to find another .204 arrow at or under 10 Gpi but they’re hard to find even on Lancaster archery 🏹 Supply. Since I bumped up my draw weight from 60 to 65 pounds on the new bow and somehow gained a half inch in draw length I thought about going 300 spine arrow instead of 340. Might shoot both and see what flies best.

[@rockninkjunkie1]

I know it's been said on here, but black eagle rampages are under 9 gpi for 300 spine and up. They cost a little more than average but not as much as some of these other companies. I've never shot the rampages. But I run .165 black eagle x-impact 250 spine, 9.5 gpi. Great arrows.

[@CoopaTroopa0525]

Why are micro diameter arrows more expensive? In theory, shouldn’t they require less material the standard shafts?

[@JS-ji5bl]

I haven't been using victory vaps long but they seem pretty durable to me...

[@mikejessie8671]

I have an arrow question for u or maybe u canake a video on this I'm wanting to shoot black eagle arrows but I don't know what spine to shoot I've been told 350 and 400 I'm shooting 60 pounds 29 inch draw any help would be great thanks

[@-lovefromnh]

Based on some charts I have seen, if I were you, I'd go with 350 spine.

[@msarchery7053]

Vap ss 250's for 2022 season. Vap tko 300's for everything else. Budget? That was blown a long time ago. Buy what you can/want to afford... but do it once. Pro tip, don't shoot groups with expensive arrows and get the best insert components, Ethics have saved a couple of my arrows already.

[@easternoutdoorsman2521]

Yes sir. I made that mistake once. When you robin hood one or two you'll start to pick different dots to aim at lol.

[@dougbarabe7861]

and advice on a small dia, target arrow,?

[@averagejackarchery]

Gold Tip Pierce, Victory VAP, Victory RIP

[@vfonte218]

In my opinion DEER Crossing Archery. 166 is a awesome and strong arrow. Not super light but will not break the bank either.

[@dman4201111]

Check out the gold tip kentic peirce.. 300 spine 166 and 9.1 GPI..been shooting a few months now and its been a great arrow

[@acanuck3267]

Wont lie outserts make a lot of sence. Easier pulling from targets and i would suspect better penetration. Hmmm maybe a penetration test needs to be done with/without outserts.

[@droogbear649]

Save until you can get sirius

[@rogerrabbit4284]

Vap tko in the wind at 90 meters smashes everything! Ur vids are awesome. No one on the planet should waist money on protours !! Don’t do it !! Tko fat fat fat better ! Even the gamer versions etc are great value

[@johnhildenbrand2642]

How about the combination of heavy, consistent and durable? Can you find me one of those? I don’t mind spending a couple hundred a dozen if I'll be shooting them for a decade

[@averagejackarchery]

The top two time-tested (how about that for an alliteration!) are the Gold Tip Kinetic Kaos (my favorite) and the Easton Axis (a close second). Sirius Apollos are next on the chart and the most expensive of the three. I haven't spent much time with the Victory XTorsion, but they are also an offering that meets all your categories.

[@jameskelson1891]

Someone seems to have no knowledge of Skylon arrows: very high quality, on the light side, micro diameters available and very durable.

[@lcsmith6092]

I'd argue gold tip kinetics fit all 3. $74 for a dozen shafts at 9.9 gpi for 340 spine

[@JS-ji5bl]

9,9 isn't light..

[@jimmiekaelin4804]

VAP SS is the most durable 166 I’ve ever seen.

[@coltreese2580]

Carbon express used to make pile-driver sd pass thru extremes that I shot and we're awesome. Like $70 for half dozen fletched. Loved them but they quit making them probably because the foc fad they realized they could charge more $

[@RobertCuillo]

I bought the CX triads. They are very expensive but I never even shot them. I wonder if anyone can do a real review of the Triads

[@stevebarscz6309]

I'm still with the .246 diameter sirius vulcan, I've put them through my barn (dont ask) twice with no issues. I watched my friend snap 3 micro diameter victorys like twigs in a row while sighting in

[@ProspectingLife]

Victory VAP .166 0.001 Elites 300 spline 8.7gpi. Field proven toughness over many years. $209AUD that’s $140USD for a dozen. Your welcome 😊

[@devinwillis7787]

They’re 100 US for 6 here

[@southernbowhunter]

Check out the Victory Rip XV. 300 spine is 7.1 GPI for a 204 ID

[@robertculpepper1508]

Excellent long range 3D target arrow.

[@southernbowhunter]

@@robertculpepper1508 I just ordered some 3DHV arrows for a TAC setup. Same GPI as the rip xv.

[@kubehan]

Psst avalon classic mounted👍🏻

[@mattthadd4663]

Micros are horrible on foam targets. Other than that I loved the X Impacts

[@mspahn1967]

I just paid $45 for 1 dozen onyx bloodsport micro arrows on ebay.

[@stanthebamafan]

I like my VAP SS arrows but they’re so expensive

[@flatrockpharm4022]

Two words Victory VAP

[@mr.skeptical3071]

I'll stick with .246 i.s.d..

[@sticks7971]

We only want to know what you shoot

[@Lucas-jy7cv]

I like products made in the states and there's not much to choose from.

[@averagejackarchery]

EPA regulations there. Illegal to make a fully-carbon shaft in the USA. Hence why all the Easton arrows have fiberglass resins or aluminum sleeves inside or out.

[@Lucas-jy7cv]

Good to know. Thanks

[@andrewmcgaha9629]

A year later… where do you think the RIP TKO falls on this list?

[@averagejackarchery]

I thinking paying for the TKO is unnecessary. I'd stick with regular RIP.

[@andrewmcgaha9629]

@@averagejackarchery I don’t even know what the difference is to be honest. I have a dozen already. I didn’t find the price unreasonable, and they are lighter than some 4mm, but was wondering how they compared durability wise before investing further. Petty I know, but I prefer the white graphics on the Gemini shafts. So, may give those a go.

[@MellyBenelli]

Being cheap and getting into archery is like buying a Ferrari and putting 87 in it 😂

[@keithcushing8162]

There points cheep also

[@mikeguy9668]

Orions are super expensive, but absolutely the best on the market and probably will be for a very long time considering that sirius is out for blood lol.

[@definitelynotbrad6736]

Who makes Sirius's arrow for them?

[@waynehumphrey8910]

No definitely not cheap I started shooting victory VAP TKOs last year a little bit heavier then the VAP little more $$ I’m definitely sold on penetration I have it figured to around $35 an arrow with broad head and lighted knock got to love it

[@russelllangworthy8855]

Is it absolutely necessary to have the lighted nock?

[@-lovefromnh]

@@russelllangworthy8855 not at all. They are nice when filming though.

[@russelllangworthy8855]

@@-lovefromnh I have a half dozen Nockturnals that I bought a few years ago but I don't use them. You're right about them being nice for filming and they're also very cool to watch at a 3D shoot, but I don't use them for hunting. I always like to take a couple practice shots from my treestand and I don't want the lighted nocks glowing all day down on the ground.

[@BeardedSportsman]

I have Victory VAP TKO Elite 300 spine for one bow and Victory RIP TKO Elite 250 spine for the other. You DEFINITELY aren’t getting light and durable for cheap. RIP to my bank account 😅